NY Times - Obamacare is health care rationing

[landrun]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=1

The author of this NY Times article is Steven Rattner, Obama's car czar and counselor to the Treasury secretary. He boldly confesses the numbers don’t add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.
Obama care isn't health care, it is the denial of care - and control of an industry - in the name of health care.



We need death panels. Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health-care resources more prudently – rationing, by its proper name – the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.

.... the advisory board can’t propose reducing benefits (a k a rationing) or raising fees (another form of rationing), without which the spending target looms impossibly large.


Below he readily admits that the elderly will be denied care


... No one wants to lose an aging parent. And with price out of the equation, it’s natural for patients and their families to try every treatment, regardless of expense or efficacy. But that imposes an enormous societal cost that few other nations have been willing to bear. Many countries whose health care systems are regularly extolled – including Canada, Australia and New Zealand – have systems for rationing care.


How do the leftist feel now that a board member of the New America Foundation, a George Soros-funded organization that supported Obamacare, and a member of Obama's own administration points out that Palin was right all along and all the left did to deny it was intenetional deception to get the bill passed.

If you believe a word this admin says, you're a fool. -- oh... and Palin is smarter than you too. :excitement:

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Question landrun, do you think that rationing also occurs in a private system?

[rock on sooner]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=1

The author of this NY Times article is Steven Rattner, Obama's car czar and counselor to the Treasury secretary. He boldly confesses the numbers don’t add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.
Obama care isn't health care, it is the denial of care - and control of an industry - in the name of health care.



Below he readily admits that the elderly will be denied care


How do the leftist feel now that a board member of the New America Foundation, a George Soros-funded organization that supported Obamacare, and a member of Obama's own administration points out that Palin was right all along and all the left did to deny it was intenetional deception to get the bill passed.

If you believe a word this admin says, you're a fool. -- oh... and Palin is smarter than you too. :excitement:

Don't know about the first part, but on the last part, I've met rocks that
are smarter than Ms Palin!

[landrun]

Sure I do. But a consumer can take an insurance company to court. You won't be able to fight the US government.
A consumer can change insurance companies if need be too. The choices may be limited (due to the same corrupt politicians who passed Obamacare) and you can't look nation wide for a provider. But you're not literally left to die without any options.

On top of that, the dems have explicitly denied this is the case. - Which is the point you seem to be trying to avoid and justify.

Now that dems have passed their bill, the justification for their deception is that private health companies try this too? really?
The dems have deliberatly decieved the masses of the country to get just enough senators to pass the bill ... at midnight... Christmas eve if I remember correctly.

If the admin had admitted this truth it would have gone down in flames and we all know it. What's worse, is that people will be denied care they need by the very party who pretends to care for the sick and elderly while those people who genuinelly tried to protect them - the conservatives - were accused of wanting to see grandma die.

Just stop and think about how twisted this is. Once again, the dems are truly guilty of the curelty they accuse the republicans of. They really do want to deny the elderly health care and let grandma die - because they're too greedy to spend money to save her life. She isn't worth it to them. THAT is truth. It isn't a sound bite. It is real. And always has been.

[yermom]

where is the fairytale land where you can choose your insurance company?

[cleller]

where is the fairytale land where you can choose your insurance company?

I guess I don't get it. We chose our insurance company.

Aside from that, as a non-Obama supporter, a skeptic of ObamaCare, and the caretaker of an elderly parent with Alzheimers, I think rationing is acceptable and prudent. Unfortunately, level-headed and responsible families and medical personnel are a crucial part of the equation. Not always easy to assemble.

[yermom]

at best, i've gotten to choose between two

[LiveLaughLove]

Hehe you libs.

Did your side say or not that there were no death panels, ie rationing? Yes, they said there was none. Now we know they are the liars, we knew they were all along.

It's that whole "we have to pass it to find out whats in it" thing.

Now on this thread none of you will admit it was a lie. You act incredulous that we should have known all along. Well, we did.

Palin was correct. Everyone knew she was correct back then. But never let a good opportunity to slam someone go by the wayside.

rock, I'll bet you haven't met rocks as successful as she is. In fact, I'm betting you haven't met very many people as successful as she is.

Question SCS, did Obama et al say or not that there would be no death panels? It doesn't matter what private insurers have or not. The question at hand is what were we told by the dems, and what is actually true. So which is it?

yermom, America. You can choose your insurer by deciding where you wish to work and which providers they supply. No one is forced (at least not yet) to work for xyz company if they don't like xyz's insurer. It's one of those things you can check out before you decide to hire on.

Now, once more, without the obfuscation you folks are attempting, did Obama say or not, that there would be no rationing? yes or no.

[cleller]

at best, i've gotten to choose between two

Ah, well you probably have some of that insurance that actually pays for things, unlike ours. We've got the high deductible doomsday blackmail policies, but plenty of choice.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Obama did say there would be no death panels, L^3.

I am no fan of the morass that is ACA or the system we had in place before hand. ACA allegedly rations on age you say, our previous system rationed on the ability to pay. There are better alternatives out there, but we lack the political will to enact real reform.

[soonercruiser]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=1

The author of this NY Times article is Steven Rattner, Obama's car czar and counselor to the Treasury secretary. He boldly confesses the numbers don’t add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.
Obama care isn't health care, it is the denial of care - and control of an industry - in the name of health care.



Below he readily admits that the elderly will be denied care


How do the leftist feel now that a board member of the New America Foundation, a George Soros-funded organization that supported Obamacare, and a member of Obama's own administration points out that Palin was right all along and all the left did to deny it was intenetional deception to get the bill passed.

If you believe a word this admin says, you're a fool. -- oh... and Palin is smarter than you too. :excitement:

Which numbers don't add up?
The original $800 Billion?
Or, the new CBO number of $2.6 Trillion?

And, in the news yesterday is the plan to fine hospitals who re-admit Medicare patients within 90 days.
So, do we keep them in longer in the first place? Does that cost less?
Duh! GOD forbid that bureaucrat would have enough medical knowledge to make the appropriate call.
Medicare = older folks = more chrionic diseases = not so healthy = more complications post-op!
So, is this an attempt to have Medicare patients with complicated medical problems just die at home????
Duh!

[yermom]

Hehe you libs.

Did your side say or not that there were no death panels, ie rationing? Yes, they said there was none. Now we know they are the liars, we knew they were all along.

It's that whole "we have to pass it to find out whats in it" thing.

Now on this thread none of you will admit it was a lie. You act incredulous that we should have known all along. Well, we did.

Palin was correct. Everyone knew she was correct back then. But never let a good opportunity to slam someone go by the wayside.

rock, I'll bet you haven't met rocks as successful as she is. In fact, I'm betting you haven't met very many people as successful as she is.

Question SCS, did Obama et al say or not that there would be no death panels? It doesn't matter what private insurers have or not. The question at hand is what were we told by the dems, and what is actually true. So which is it?

yermom, America. You can choose your insurer by deciding where you wish to work and which providers they supply. No one is forced (at least not yet) to work for xyz company if they don't like xyz's insurer. It's one of those things you can check out before you decide to hire on.

Now, once more, without the obfuscation you folks are attempting, did Obama say or not, that there would be no rationing? yes or no.

oh, of course, i get to choose my employer at will in fantasyland as well

[diverdog]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=1

The author of this NY Times article is Steven Rattner, Obama's car czar and counselor to the Treasury secretary. He boldly confesses the numbers don’t add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.
Obama care isn't health care, it is the denial of care - and control of an industry - in the name of health care.



Below he readily admits that the elderly will be denied care


How do the leftist feel now that a board member of the New America Foundation, a George Soros-funded organization that supported Obamacare, and a member of Obama's own administration points out that Palin was right all along and all the left did to deny it was intenetional deception to get the bill passed.

If you believe a word this admin says, you're a fool. -- oh... and Palin is smarter than you too. :excitement:

Did you even read the article? Do you understand that he was saying the exploding cost of medical care is going to force end of life decisions because we simply cannot afford to give 90 year olds hip replacements or keep people alive forever. So no Sarah Palin was not right.

[sappstuf]

Did you even read the article? Do you understand that he was saying the exploding cost of medical care is going to force end of life decisions because we simply cannot afford to give 90 year olds hip replacements or keep people alive forever. So no Sarah Palin was not right.

Obama promised over and over that Obamacare would "bend the cost curve" downwards.. It was one of the major selling points of his plan.

Are you now conceding that was a lie too?

[badger]

What did teapartiers like to yell --- Obama lies, granny dies?

I don't think "death panels" will just impact the elderly, especially since the elderly vote en masse. Look for "death panels" to impact those who cannot vote (disabled people, convicted felons, children, people with terminal illness, the homeless, illegals) just as much, if not more.

[LiveLaughLove]

What did teapartiers like to yell --- Obama lies, granny dies?

I don't think "death panels" will just impact the elderly, especially since the elderly vote en masse. Look for "death panels" to impact those who cannot vote (disabled people, convicted felons, children, people with terminal illness, the homeless, illegals) just as much, if not more.

Exactly. When costs continue to skyrocket, and they will, then which group gets the death panel scythe turned its way? newborns with severe complications that will drain the system that have a small chance of survival? People in comas?
And how old is too old to be cared for? 90? 80? 70? 65? How do you demarcate that?
its insanity, pure unadulterated insanity.

yermom, no one forces someone to work a job, unless its a spouse. read 48 days to the work you love, by dan miller, or the 4 hour work week, by Tim Farris. No such thing in todays times to be stuck doing something you don't wasn't to be doing.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

All scarce resources are rationed. The market itself is a system of rationing. An Ipad costs $600 because it is a scarce resource. If it were an unlimited resource they would just hand them out for free.

This is a very good article because it gets to one of the critical issues of medical costs. The lefties seem to want people to believe that the gov't can conjure up "free" health care for everybody and everything. The righties seem to want to ignore the fact that, even in a market system, choices have to be made about where to use scarce resources.

The article is correct that in single payer systems choices are made by the gov't about who gets care. Usually the older you are, the less likely you are to get care. That's how they keep costs down. The problem with our system is we don't have that mechanism for keeping costs in check. I happen to believe that there's a better way to achieve this equilibrium than bureaucrats making arbitrary decisions and cold calculations.

btw, our current system is not a market driven system and anybody that says differently doesn't know what they are talking about.

[badger]

All scarce resources are rationed.

Is healthcare really a scarce source in this country, when people from other countries come to use our hospitals and clinics (not talking illegals, but I guess they apply too)? About the only time someone goes overseas for medical care is if they want to do the stem cell thing.

[rock on sooner]

Hehe you libs.

Did your side say or not that there were no death panels, ie rationing? Yes, they said there was none. Now we know they are the liars, we knew they were all along.

It's that whole "we have to pass it to find out whats in it" thing.

Now on this thread none of you will admit it was a lie. You act incredulous that we should have known all along. Well, we did.

Palin was correct. Everyone knew she was correct back then. But never let a good opportunity to slam someone go by the wayside.

rock, I'll bet you haven't met rocks as successful as she is. In fact, I'm betting you haven't met very many people as successful as she is.

Question SCS, did Obama et al say or not that there would be no death panels? It doesn't matter what private insurers have or not. The question at hand is what were we told by the dems, and what is actually true. So which is it?

yermom, America. You can choose your insurer by deciding where you wish to work and which providers they supply. No one is forced (at least not yet) to work for xyz company if they don't like xyz's insurer. It's one of those things you can check out before you decide to hire on.

Now, once more, without the obfuscation you folks are attempting, did Obama say or not, that there would be no rationing? yes or no.

Don't know how to just pick a sentence or two to respond to so the whole
thing is here. LLL,the only rocks that I've met that are more successful than
Ms Palin are the shiny and golden colored ones in my safe and as to very
many successful people, I suppose successful should be defined. I can think
of at least ten that are multimillionaires and many more who, by monetary
measurements are quite successful and so many more that are successful
by THEIR own standards. I'm certain that you can say the same.

[diverdog]

Obama promised over and over that Obamacare would "bend the cost curve" downwards.. It was one of the major selling points of his plan.

Are you now conceding that was a lie too?

No. You are in health care and you are seriously going to sit here and tell me that anyone can control the cost on unreasonable procedures like giving a 90 year old a hip replacement. I bring this up because a friend's mother had a hip replacement at the age of 90 and died a few weeks later because of the procedure. Medicare approved it (so much for death panels) and the cost to keep her a live a few weeks longer was $250,000 plus above her normal nursing home cost. At what point do we say enough is enough and let nature take its course?

[diverdog]

Is healthcare really a scarce source in this country, when people from other countries come to use our hospitals and clinics (not talking illegals, but I guess they apply too)? About the only time someone goes overseas for medical care is if they want to do the stem cell thing.

Your statement is simply not true. People from the US go to other nations for medical procedures because they are a lot cheaper. Thailand and India are providing outstanding health care to US patients at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15513596/ns/health-health_care/t/more-americans-head-overseas-health-care/

[diverdog]

Exactly. When costs continue to skyrocket, and they will, then which group gets the death panel scythe turned its way? newborns with severe complications that will drain the system that have a small chance of survival? People in comas?
And how old is too old to be cared for? 90? 80? 70? 65? How do you demarcate that?
its insanity, pure unadulterated insanity.

yermom, no one forces someone to work a job, unless its a spouse. read 48 days to the work you love, by dan miller, or the 4 hour work week, by Tim Farris. No such thing in todays times to be stuck doing something you don't wasn't to be doing.


So what is your solution?

[badger]

Your statement is simply not true. People from the US go to other nations for medical procedures because they are a lot cheaper. Thailand and India are providing outstanding health care to US patients at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15513596/ns/health-health_care/t/more-americans-head-overseas-health-care/

Very true, sorry not thinking right today. I used to live in Wisconsin, where retired folk would take buses to Canada for cheaper drugs. How much cheaper? Enough cheaper to board a bus to Canada.

[soonercruiser]

Your statement is simply not true. People from the US go to other nations for medical procedures because they are a lot cheaper. Thailand and India are providing outstanding health care to US patients at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15513596/ns/health-health_care/t/more-americans-head-overseas-health-care/

"MSNBS"!!!!
Not exactly a neutral news source, Diver.
I watched a short so-called "news" show on MSNBS during lunch today.
Sounded like Obama's press secretary attacking Romney!

Sure, when an American can go elsewhere for something cheaper, especially when the health insurance doesn't cover it, they will go where they need to.
BUT....when people around the globe need cutting edge technology and medical care, and the cost is not being weighed against their lives (like Obamacare will do), they come to the U.S.! Even this won't last much longer....:ambivalence:

[sappstuf]

No. You are in health care and you are seriously going to sit here and tell me that anyone can control the cost on unreasonable procedures like giving a 90 year old a hip replacement. I bring this up because a friend's mother had a hip replacement at the age of 90 and died a few weeks later because of the procedure. Medicare approved it (so much for death panels) and the cost to keep her a live a few weeks longer was $250,000 plus above her normal nursing home cost. At what point do we say enough is enough and let nature take its course?

Should the federal government really be in the position to say "let nature take its course" with no legal recourse for the people? Maybe after age 65 in red states and 75 in blue states? Anything wrong with that? Is that the point you would be ok with?

You say "no", but your entire post is saying it is impossible to do what Obama promised which was to keep costs down. Why don't you have it in you to admit that Obama and the Dems were lying through their teeth to get this thing passed? I understand pride, but this is taking it to an entirely new level.

He said that insurance costs would drop $2500 per family... Since that time insurance for the average family has increased by $2500... Do you expect to see a drop of $5000 in insurance premiums anytime soon so Obama can fulfill his promise?

Obamacare is a disaster and the full impact hasn't even hit us yet.

[badger]

Obamacare is a disaster and the full impact hasn't even hit us yet.

So... we'll have the Obamacare tax increase, then we'll have the end of the Bush tax cuts to increase taxes... am I leaving any tax increases out, or will 2013 be an incredibly painful pocketbook year?

[sappstuf]

Your statement is simply not true. People from the US go to other nations for medical procedures because they are a lot cheaper. Thailand and India are providing outstanding health care to US patients at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15513596/ns/health-health_care/t/more-americans-head-overseas-health-care/

Private hospitals over there aren't flooded with illegals they are required to see and they require payment for an admission up front...

Our costs would drop dramatically if you want our system to go to that.

[sappstuf]

So... we'll have the Obamacare tax increase, then we'll have the end of the Bush tax cuts to increase taxes... am I leaving any tax increases out, or will 2013 be an incredibly painful pocketbook year?

The CBO has predicted that we will go into a full recession in 2013 if everything that Obama has lined up to happen ends up happening.. But what does Obama care if he gets reelected?

He will blame it all on the Repubs and the lefties will eat it up.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

So... we'll have the Obamacare tax increase, then we'll have the end of the Bush tax cuts to increase taxes... am I leaving any tax increases out, or will 2013 be an incredibly painful pocketbook year?

The 2.5% (I think) payroll tax cut that's been in place the past couple of years is also set to expire. I wouldn't go heavy on the spending this Christmas.

[badger]

The CBO has predicted that we will go into a full recession in 2013 if everything that Obama has lined up to happen ends up happening.
I believe it. People and business have less money because of taxes, they'll shut their wallets.


But what does Obama care if he gets reelected?
He should care, because his legacy is at stake. In addition, will America ever give another minority a chance at being president if he ends up being worse than Jimmy Carter?


He will blame it all on the Repubs and the lefties will eat it up.
The Republicans should share in the blame. They make up a good portion of Congress (even if they're not the majority) and if they didn't do enough to get elected in 2012 to take the majority of either/both the Senate/House and/or the White House, then that's a failure on their part. If they don't do enough to get their own agenda passed for the betterment of this country, majority/white house control or not, then they can fault themselves for that as well.

Absolutely nobody will get a pass if there is another recession. Not Obama, not Democrats, not Republicans. We are in this mess together, let's prevent the next mess together or take the blame for the mess together. No excuses!

[rock on sooner]

The 2.5% (I think) payroll tax cut that's been in place the past couple of years is also set to expire. I wouldn't go heavy on the spending this Christmas.

FYI, the payroll tax is 2% and is set to expire Dec 31. Wouldn't surprise me to see that
one extended...it is a left handed way to raid SS. Gov't owes the Trust Fund $2.6 trllion
now.

[pphilfran]

FYI, the payroll tax is 2% and is set to expire Dec 31. Wouldn't surprise me to see that
one extended...it is a left handed way to raid SS. Gov't owes the Trust Fund $2.6 trllion
now.

Actually, the lower rate gives our leadership less to use since there is less revenue...they spend every penny that comes in anyway....the shortfall due to the payroll tax cut is being made up and SS is fully funded (not sure is fully funded is the proper way to state that fact) by the use of special issue bonds...

[badger]

The 2.5% (I think) payroll tax cut that's been in place the past couple of years is also set to expire. I wouldn't go heavy on the spending this Christmas.

While I am cringing at the thought of paying all of these additional taxes next year... the country is having incredible money problems. It we all give back a little and the government doesn't misuse our money in return, maybe we can preserve what we have for future generations.

Of course, even Sen. Coburn couldn't reason with the Democrats. He put tax increases on the table, and the Dems proceeded to take spending cuts off the table. :mad:

[sappstuf]

While I am cringing at the thought of paying all of these additional taxes next year... the country is having incredible money problems. It we all give back a little and the government doesn't misuse our money in return, maybe we can preserve what we have for future generations.

Of course, even Sen. Coburn couldn't reason with the Democrats. He put tax increases on the table, and the Dems proceeded to take spending cuts off the table. :mad:

The money problems will get worse if we go into a recession even with the higher tax rate.

[pphilfran]

A couple of months ago my Dad, age 90, fell and broke his hip....he is at the Veterans Center in Lawton (a really fine facility)

It was now decision time for pphilfran since I am his guardian...

No operation would leave him in constant pain and unable to sit and would more than likely be on pain meds (this was according to the doctors)...or I could accept the operation and add costs...he had a 50/50 chance of surviving the operation...

My sisters and I huddled up and we decided to go with the operation...he came through the operation fine and is back up and walking...they have him padded up and has a "helmet" that reminds me of the old leather football helmets from years past...fitting since when he is semi normal he thinks he is living back in the 30's...

Then, two weeks ago, another phone call about bleeding from his penis...the urologist wanted to run several tests....but, according to the urologist they would probably kill him..personally, I was temped to accept the the testing and hopefully put an end to his misery, but I took the docs advice and refused the testing...they are now making him as comfortable as possible...

As my Dad would say..."This is the ****s!"

[pphilfran]

The money problems will get worse if we go into a recession even with the higher tax rate.

One priority and one priority only...get the economy growing at 4%+ or we are in deep trouble no matter the tax rates...

[sappstuf]

One priority and one priority only...get the economy growing at 4%+ or we are in deep trouble no matter the tax rates...

Obama has been secretly holding back the economy to make his 2nd term look better...

[FaninAma]

Your statement is simply not true. People from the US go to other nations for medical procedures because they are a lot cheaper. Thailand and India are providing outstanding health care to US patients at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15513596/ns/health-health_care/t/more-americans-head-overseas-health-care/

That's true of almost anything you want to buy.....land, houses, food. 3rd world countries have a lower standard and cost of living so of course prices are cheaper for whatever commodity you want to buy. I bet health care is dirt cheap in Nigeria.

[StoopTroup]

Other than Romneycare was a State run care....I really fail to see why Obamacare is getting all this "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" rhetoric. Had President Obama not ever instituted Obamacare....Romney would be running a campaign to institute his Healthcare Policies and trying to convince Americans that he has all the answers. What he's really done is....to get the GOP Nominee, he has denied that he ever had any ideas other than to repeal the damaging ideas that President Obama managed to get passed in his 1st Term.

[diverdog]

A couple of months ago my Dad, age 90, fell and broke his hip....he is at the Veterans Center in Lawton (a really fine facility)

It was now decision time for pphilfran since I am his guardian...

No operation would leave him in constant pain and unable to sit and would more than likely be on pain meds (this was according to the doctors)...or I could accept the operation and add costs...he had a 50/50 chance of surviving the operation...

My sisters and I huddled up and we decided to go with the operation...he came through the operation fine and is back up and walking...they have him padded up and has a "helmet" that reminds me of the old leather football helmets from years past...fitting since when he is semi normal he thinks he is living back in the 30's...

Then, two weeks ago, another phone call about bleeding from his penis...the urologist wanted to run several tests....but, according to the urologist they would probably kill him..personally, I was temped to accept the the testing and hopefully put an end to his misery, but I took the docs advice and refused the testing...they are now making him as comfortable as possible...

As my Dad would say..."This is the ****s!"

Phil:

I am so sorry to hear about your dad.

My friends mom had similar experience and then she got pneumonia and that ended up killing her. Operating at 90 is extremely risky.

[diverdog]

That's true of almost anything you want to buy.....land, houses, food. 3rd world countries have a lower standard and cost of living so of course prices are cheaper for whatever commodity you want to buy. I bet health care is dirt cheap in Nigeria.


This is interesting:

uSNsnKLUCdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNsnKLUCdg

[StoopTroup]

He should care, because his legacy is at stake. In addition, will America ever give another minority a chance at being president if he ends up being worse than Jimmy Carter?


I think that Herman Cain thinks the real problem is that President Obama is half White....It's not that we shouldn't give a minority another chance. It's that we didn't elect a 100% American Black that understands Business and the pain that Minorities have suffered since being brought here as Slaves. President Obama basically came here on a Cruise Ship and just can't understand the true battle that guys like Herman Cain and their Father's before him have endured. :D ;)

[pphilfran]

Phil:

I am so sorry to hear about your dad.

My friends mom had similar experience and then she got pneumonia and that ended up killing her. Operating at 90 is extremely risky.

Thanks

[yermom]

Exactly. When costs continue to skyrocket, and they will, then which group gets the death panel scythe turned its way? newborns with severe complications that will drain the system that have a small chance of survival? People in comas?
And how old is too old to be cared for? 90? 80? 70? 65? How do you demarcate that?
its insanity, pure unadulterated insanity.

yermom, no one forces someone to work a job, unless its a spouse. read 48 days to the work you love, by dan miller, or the 4 hour work week, by Tim Farris. No such thing in todays times to be stuck doing something you don't wasn't to be doing.

you are seriously cracking me up here.

why hasn't everyone in the world taken on this idea?

why didn't anyone tell me i could miracle my dream job into existence?

[StoopTroup]

you are seriously cracking me up here.

why hasn't everyone in the world taken on this idea?

why didn't anyone tell me i could miracle my dream job into existence?

Dream Job? Dream Company Bro. Once Romney is in charge you are gonna have your own Dream Company.

And it's Tim Farriss.