Quote of the Year from Ben Stein

[Blue]

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... But not everyone must prove they are a citizen." Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

[LiveLaughLove]

Succinct and accurate, and the liberals don't have a problem with it because their party is the benefactor of this arrangement.

So nothing to see here but bitter clingers, move along.

[diverdog]

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... But not everyone must prove they are a citizen." Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

The problem is that Ben Stein is wrong.


To confirm our examination, we turned to Jennifer Tolbert, an independent health care analyst at the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonpartisan foundation that studies health care reform. Tolbert has read and analyzed all the major health proposals, including those of the Republicans, and the foundation provides point-by-point analyses (http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm)of the plans on its Web site."No one's provided with free health care. That's ridiculous," she said.
Page 50, which is part of Section 152, which includes a generic nondiscrimination clause saying that insurers may not discriminate with regard to "personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."
The section says nothing about "non-US citizens" or immigrants, legal or otherwise. In fact, the legislation specifically states that "undocumented aliens" will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page

The bill does not say anything close to "All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."

[cleller]

Those undocumented aliens already know the drill. Walk into your local hospital ER, receive treatment without paying or presenting any US identification, and leave.

[badger]

Ben Stein needs to be on TV more, but not just for political purposes. He's much funnier when he's giving away his paycheck with Jimmy Fallon reading questions... or being an economics professor.

dxPVyieptwA

[diverdog]

Ben Stein needs to be on TV more, but not just for political purposes. He's much funnier when he's giving away his paycheck with Jimmy Fallon reading questions... or being an economics professor.

dxPVyieptwA

I never thought he was funny. Brilliant...yes. Funny....no.

[C&CDean]

Those worthless native-borns already know the drill. Walk into your local hospital ER, receive treatment without paying or presenting any US identification, and leave.

FIFY

[FaninAma]

Diverdog, I don't understand the analyst's assertion in the information you provided that nobody is provided free health care. Does she understand what Medicaid is? She loses all credibility with that statement.

Please show me where I am wrong.

Cleller is correct. There will be no mechanism to stop illegals or anybody else from walking into an ER with false information and not paying. You know the progressives won't allow any information obtained by the hospitals regarding illegal immigrant status to be turned over to ICE.

[diverdog]

Diverdog, I don't understand the analyst's assertion in the information you provided that nobody is provided free health care. Does she understand what Medicaid is? She loses all credibility with that statement.

Please show me where I am wrong.

Cleller is correct. There will be no mechanism to stop illegals or anybody else from walking into an ER with false information and not paying. You know the progressives won't allow any information obtained by the hospitals regarding illegal immigrant status to be turned over to ICE.

She is talking strictly Obamacare/ACA.

Medicaid is a different animal. I am not sure what access illegals have to medicaid. From what I understand by and large hospitals are left holding the bag when they cannot pay.

[rock on sooner]

She is talking strictly Obamacare/ACA.

Medicaid is a different animal. I am not sure what access illegals have to medicaid. From what I understand by and large hospitals are left holding the bag when they cannot pay.
The "bag" gets handled by all the ones who have insurance or are self
insured.

[FaninAma]

She is talking strictly Obamacare/ACA.

Medicaid is a different animal. I am not sure what access illegals have to medicaid. From what I understand by and large hospitals are left holding the bag when they cannot pay.

How can you separate Medicaid from Obamacare? Under the tenets of Obama's plan Medicaid will be expanded by a minimum of 18 million patients, probably more if low income earners drop their company sponsored healthcare plan or the company drops it because they decide it is cheaper to pay the penalty.

It is disingenious to try and talk about the impact of Obamacare without discussing the impact of the expanded Medicaid coverage.

And yes, illegal immigrants get Medicaid coverage. I worked in Nebraska and took care of a a lot of Medicaid covered children whose parents were illegal immigrants who worked in the beef packing plants in that state.

[C&CDean]

How can you separate Medicaid from Obamacare? Under the tenets of Obama's plan Medicaid will be expanded by a minimum of 18 million patients, probably more if low income earners drop their company sponsored healthcare plan or the company drops it because they decide it is cheaper to pay the penalty.

It is disingenious to try and talk about the impact of Obamacare without discussing the impact of the expanded Medicaid coverage.

And yes, illegal immigrants get Medicaid coverage. I worked in Nebraska and took care of a a lot of Medicaid covered children whose parents were illegal immigrants who worked in the beef packing plants in that state.

Well, do the little Mexican kids look the same on the inside as the American ones?

[BillyBall]

Ben Stein needs to be on TV more, but not just for political purposes. He's much funnier when he's giving away his paycheck with Jimmy Fallon reading questions... or being an economics professor.

dxPVyieptwA

Not that it really matters, but the show was with Jimmy Kimmel not Jimmy Fallon.

[okie52]

Well, do the little Mexican kids look the same on the inside as the American ones?

Their pocketbooks don't ...and they had universal coverage in Mexico.

[badger]

Not that it really matters, but the show was with Jimmy Kimmel not Jimmy Fallon.

My bad - Jimmy-somebody :P

[Bourbon St Sooner]

How can you separate Medicaid from Obamacare? Under the tenets of Obama's plan Medicaid will be expanded by a minimum of 18 million patients, probably more if low income earners drop their company sponsored healthcare plan or the company drops it because they decide it is cheaper to pay the penalty.

It is disingenious to try and talk about the impact of Obamacare without discussing the impact of the expanded Medicaid coverage.

And yes, illegal immigrants get Medicaid coverage. I worked in Nebraska and took care of a a lot of Medicaid covered children whose parents were illegal immigrants who worked in the beef packing plants in that state.

Fan, you ned to quit showing up here and embarrassing people who like to post crap from ignorant online columnists.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... But not everyone must prove they are a citizen." Now add this, "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

I'd say this is evidence that Ben Stein is Dumbass of the Year. Of course not everyone must prove they are a citizen. There are millions of non-citizens who hold visas. And not being a citizen does not imply free insurance. If you are not forced to buy insurance it may have to do with being unemployed, unable to work, etc or poor, independent of citizenship status.

Now the word citizen has more than one meaning, so maybe Ben Stein was using the word "citizen" in the broader sense. Like, "George is being a good citizen by cleaning up the dog$hit on the children's playground." But that doesn't fit Ben Stein's quote. Still a dumbass.

Or maybe he incorrectly thought of all folks in the U.S. as the union of two disjoint sets: Citizens and illegal aliens. Well if his point is to show problems with who pays and who receives health benefits, it was a big swing-and-a-miss. Still a dumbass.

Illegal aliens impose 1.5% of the medical costs in the U.S. while making up 3.2% of the population and 5% of the workforce. The cost of medical care is a ticking time-bomb, but not because of illegal aliens. They are disproportionally healthier, less likely to receive medical care, more likely to pay out-of-pocket when they do use it, and overall just a tiny slice of the huge slice of GDP that goes to medical care. Five percent of the U.S. population impose 50% of the health care dollars. Those unhealthy folks are a big financial problem. By and large, they are not mowing lawns or cleaning toilets for a living.

If you want to target something significant, target old people. Here's a quote for you: We need to give tax deductions for shipping old people overseas. People over the age of 65 account for 13% of the population and impose 33% of the medical costs. And these numbers will get worse as baby boomers get older. A huge proportion of the costs occur the last year people are alive.

Give these old ****ers tax breaks if they agree to live in Panama or some other happy place for ex-Pats. They'll probably receive better health care for much fewer dollars. And the young workers in the U.S. won't go broke paying for the overpriced U.S. care.




http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj32n1/cj32n1.html

[OU_Sooners75]

The problem is that Ben Stein is wrong.

Gee, didn't imagine you saying that something negative about Obama or his policies was wrong.

[okie52]

I'd say this is evidence that Ben Stein is Dumbass of the Year. Of course not everyone must prove they are a citizen. There are millions of non-citizens who hold visas. And not being a citizen does not imply free insurance. If you are not forced to buy insurance it may have to do with being unemployed, unable to work, etc or poor, independent of citizenship status.

Now the word citizen has more than one meaning, so maybe Ben Stein was using the word "citizen" in the broader sense. Like, "George is being a good citizen by cleaning up the dog$hit on the children's playground." But that doesn't fit Ben Stein's quote. Still a dumbass.

Or maybe he incorrectly thought of all folks in the U.S. as the union of two disjoint sets: Citizens and illegal aliens. Well if his point is to show problems with who pays and who receives health benefits, it was a big swing-and-a-miss. Still a dumbass.

Illegal aliens impose 1.5% of the medical costs in the U.S. while making up 3.2% of the population and 5% of the workforce. The cost of medical care is a ticking time-bomb, but not because of illegal aliens. They are disproportionally healthier, less likely to receive medical care, more likely to pay out-of-pocket when they do use it, and overall just a tiny slice of the huge slice of GDP that goes to medical care. Five percent of the U.S. population impose 50% of the health care dollars. Those unhealthy folks are a big financial problem. By and large, they are not mowing lawns or cleaning toilets for a living.

If you want to target something significant, target old people. Here's a quote for you: We need to give tax deductions for shipping old people overseas. People over the age of 65 account for 13% of the population and impose 33% of the medical costs. And these numbers will get worse as baby boomers get older. A huge proportion of the costs occur the last year people are alive.

Give these old ****ers tax breaks if they agree to live in Panama or some other happy place for ex-Pats. They'll probably receive better health care for much fewer dollars. And the young workers in the U.S. won't go broke paying for the overpriced U.S. care.




http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj32n1/cj32n1.html

juan. Your quest for family reunification becomes more entertaining with every new attempt to legitimize illegals presence in this country.

Today you are calling for casting out CITIZENS that have paid into the system all of their lives simply because they have gotten old...which is kind of the point of a health care system isn't it juan? This actually occurs in every country, not just the US.

And, not to be outdone with the dispensing elderly CITIZENS to some foreign domain so that the can spend their waning years out of the country, we are to ignore the millions of ILLEGALS that have not paid a dime into the system while receiving their ER treatments for free since it is a mere pittance in the grand scheme of things. According to some sources those costs are as high as $11,000,000,000 a year. Let us disregard that most of these trespassers have universal health care coverage at home and, if they had stayed there, would have their medical needs cared for by Mexico.

I'm sure, for the sake of brevity, you omitted the part where you were about to suggest that we send them back to Mexico with a big COD along with our bill for medical services?

[yermom]

reading is hard.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

juan. Your quest for family reunification becomes more entertaining with every new attempt to legitimize illegals presence in this country.

Today you are calling for casting out CITIZENS that have paid into the system all of their lives simply because they have gotten old...which is kind of the point of a health care system isn't it juan? This actually occurs in every country, not just the US.

And, not to be outdone with the dispensing elderly CITIZENS to some foreign domain so that the can spend their waning years out of the country, we are to ignore the millions of ILLEGALS that have not paid a dime into the system while receiving their ER treatments for free since it is a mere pittance in the grand scheme of things. According to some sources those costs are as high as $11,000,000,000 a year. Let us disregard that most of these trespassers have universal health care coverage at home and, if they had stayed there, would have their medical needs cared for by Mexico.

I'm sure, for the sake of brevity, you omitted the part where you were about to suggest that we send them back to Mexico with a big COD along with our bill for medical services?

Speaking of family reunification, Maria is flying in from Mexico this evening. I gotta go to the airport to pick her up in a few minutes.

Okie, my serious point is that there may be 50 things to hate about Obamacare, I really don't know. But pissing on poor illegal aliens is not necessary. If Obamacare is bad, it would still be bad even if there were no illegal aliens. In the 2.5 trillion dollars/year spent on health care there are other things to worry about.

And offering tax deductions for relocating is not "casting out." Look at all the old ****ers who relocate to states with lower taxes when they retire.

[FaninAma]

SanJoaquin, so which federal statutes do the rest of us get to consider as optional? As long as we are making our immigration statutes optional there are a couple of federal regulations I'd like to have the choice of whether I comply or not.

Situational, politically influenced enforcement of government statutes undermines the rule of law. It is the type of thing banana republics do.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

SanJoaquin, so which federal statutes do the rest of us get to consider as optional? As long as we are making our immigration statutes optional there are a couple of federal regulations I'd like to have the choice of whether I comply or not.

Situational, politically influenced enforcement of government statutes undermines the rule of law. It is the type of thing banana republics do.

So you think Obamacare is mandatory for U.S. citizens and optional for resident aliens and other visa holders?

[SCOUT]

So you think Obamacare is mandatory for U.S. citizens and optional for resident aliens and other visa holders?

I made a dumb comment

Nevermind

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Let us disregard that most of these trespassers have universal health care coverage at home and, if they had stayed there, would have their medical needs cared for by Mexico.


My father-in-law (second from right below) is 83 years old. Last spring he had a urinary blockage, so he went in and found out he also had cancerous cells in the prostate. So he had surgery, stayed in the hospital in Zacapu, Michoacan for 3 days, and it included a CAT scan. The whole thing cost us $2500. Think about the funny money bill for that in the U.S. No telling how much.

I thought at his age he would probably die shortly thereafter, but he's still ticking. He has a green card and is eligible for Medicare but I honestly don't think he would have received better treatment in the U.S.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/poncaparker/P4150084.jpg

[SCOUT]

My father-in-law (second from right below) is 83 years old. Last spring he had a urinary blockage, so he went in and found out he also had cancerous cells in the prostate. So he had surgery, stayed in the hospital in Zacapu, Michoacan for 3 days, and it included a CAT scan. The whole thing cost us $2500. Think about the funny money bill for that in the U.S. No telling how much.

I thought at his age he would probably die shortly thereafter, but he's still ticking. He has a green card and is eligible for Medicare but I honestly don't think he would have received better treatment in the U.S.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/poncaparker/P4150084.jpg
You should pass this story along. If Mexico is better, there is no reason to head to the US. Right?

Really happy that he is doing well, by the way. That is truly the most important thing.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

You should pass this story along. If Mexico is better, there is no reason to head to the US. Right?

Really happy that he is doing well, by the way. That is truly the most important thing.

Well, the first time he came, it was to work as a bracero in the early 50s. Most come for work, not for medical care. But now the reason for coming is to visit family. He has daughters and grandkids who live in the U.S.

[SCOUT]

Well, the first time he came, it was to work as a bracero in the early 50s. Most come for work, not for medical care. But now the reason for coming is to visit family. He has daughters and grandkids who live in the U.S.

Sure most don't come for things they don't plan for. Medical costs are hard to predict.

Follow the law. That is my only statement. Follow the law.

I will give you one (I have about 7 more) example of following the law, even though I don't agree. We have had a software developer from India who has worked here for 6 1/2 years. Her previous employers didn't want to pay the money file for a green card so she rode the 7 year H1B. Next year that document runs out. Problem is, unemployment is still high so the threshold for green cards is high as well. She will not be approved in our job because it is not unique enough. She will be deported in August.

She is a highly educated, highly trained, employed person. She will be deported.

Walk across the border? Amnesty.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Sure most don't come for things they don't plan for. Medical costs are hard to predict.

Follow the law. That is my only statement. Follow the law.

I will give you one (I have about 7 more) example of following the law, even though I don't agree. We have had a software developer from India who has worked here for 6 1/2 years. Her previous employers didn't want to pay the money file for a green card so she rode the 7 year H1B. Next year that document runs out. Problem is, unemployment is still high so the threshold for green cards is high as well. She will not be approved in our job because it is not unique enough. She will be deported in August.

She is a highly educated, highly trained, employed person. She will be deported.

Walk across the border? Amnesty.


We had one H1B who we sponsored, but the attorney said it was OK to make him pay the green card filing fee. But a year later, with another H1B the attorney said the employer must pay the filing fee. I don't know if the law changed or if the first attorney's instructions were wrong.


She is a highly educated, highly trained, employed person. She will be deported.

Walk across the border? Amnesty.

I'm not sure of your point here, there are hundreds of thousands who walked across the border and were deported. There hasn't been an amnesty since 1987.

[SCOUT]

The costs of filing changed in 2011 from the individual being responsible for a portion to the employer being responsible for 100%.

Amnesty is a current goal for many, today. No point other than to draw a contrast.

[StoopTroup]

Growing up The Hippocratic Oath was on a wall in my Father's and Uncle's Office. It wasn't there because anyone forced them to hang it, it wasn't there because it was the Law, it wasn't there for the patient's....it was there because it was, as far as they were concerned, a good reminder for them and the people that worked for them and with them.

These days where malpractice insurance and costs, political ideals and even educated well meaning people...there seems to be no concern of these oaths (Whether ancient or modern).

I think it's very important to consider that medical professionals (whether all of them or maybe just a few of them) should consider these oaths when political or social pressure is trying to take even more control from them even though patients all expect them to give them flawless mistake free medical assistance whether they want to or not. I think there are plenty of Doctors who spend a lot of time deciding which Hospital they should tell patients to seek help from and many Doctors who (per these oaths) feel they have no choice but to help. If you need medicall assistance they are going to help. I'll bet that many countries around the World where you would be screwed if you didn't have the money. What I see in this thread is people who believe that our Country should be the example and have the best healthcare system in the World but that the Doctors should either turn their back on the oaths they take or suck it up and give out free healthcare because none of us patriots should have to pay for the poor or anyone who might be here illegally.

IMO, any idea other than a National Healthcare System just can't deal with all the variables that come up if we continue to use the Romney ER approach to healthcare in America. I don't like some things in Obamacare either but at least he as POTUS put his name on it even though he risked not getting re-elected. Romney has flip flopped on this issue and none of us really know if he will move to repeal Obamacare if elected or promote a different version of his Massachusetts States Rights Romneycare.

[StoopTroup]

Some good reading IMO.

http://www.imagerynet.com/hippo.ama.html

[SCOUT]

Growing up The Hippocratic Oath was on a wall in my Father's and Uncle's Office. It wasn't there because anyone forced them to hang it, it wasn't there because it was the Law, it wasn't there for the patient's....it was there because it was, as far as they were concerned, a good reminder for them and the people that worked for them and with them.

These days where malpractice insurance and costs, political ideals and even educated well meaning people...there seems to be no concern of these oaths (Whether ancient or modern).

I think it's very important to consider that medical professionals (whether all of them or maybe just a few of them) should consider these oaths when political or social pressure is trying to take even more control from them even though patients all expect them to give them flawless mistake free medical assistance whether they want to or not. I think there are plenty of Doctors who spend a lot of time deciding which Hospital they should tell patients to seek help from and many Doctors who (per these oaths) feel they have no choice but to help. If you need medicall assistance they are going to help. I'll bet that many countries around the World where you would be screwed if you didn't have the money. What I see in this thread is people who believe that our Country should be the example and have the best healthcare system in the World but that the Doctors should either turn their back on the oaths they take or suck it up and give out free healthcare because none of us patriots should have to pay for the poor or anyone who might be here illegally.

IMO, any idea other than a National Healthcare System just can't deal with all the variables that come up if we continue to use the Romney ER approach to healthcare in America. I don't like some things in Obamacare either but at least he as POTUS put his name on it even though he risked not getting re-elected. Romney has flip flopped on this issue and none of us really know if he will move to repeal Obamacare if elected or promote a different version of his Massachusetts States Rights Romneycare.

Your grandstanding aside, the difference to someone like me, is the governmental requirement. A state mandated system is something that the residents have more control over. Sure it isn't at the individual level, but it is much closer. The idea that Mama government can cure all the ills doesn't wash with me.

[SCOUT]

I should have specified, federal governmental requirement.