Border security

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Most of you all know about my youngest sister-in-law Alma, who Maria and I brought over from Mexico when she was 16. She went on to graduate from Cal State Bakersfield in public relations and was sworn in as a U.S. citizen this past year.

Alma and her husband went to Mexico to visit family for a couple of weeks this month. She applied for a U.S. passport once she became a citizen but it takes a long time when one's last name changes due to marriage. i.e., her green card name differed from her U.S. citizenship certificate name.

So, when the travel date arrived she still didn't have her passport. They went ahead with the trip, taking her citizenship certificate and of course her California drivers license. Both are gov't issued photo IDs.

When it was time to fly home, the airlines, American, did not allow her to board without a passport. So her husband had to fly alone to LA (they live north of LA in Tehachapi). Alma flew to Tijuana, had her husband drive 3 hours to meet her at the border where she was able to walk across without a passport.

[olevetonahill]

Sounds like the border is not very secure.

Isnt it a Requirement that ALL citizens who travel to another country have their Passports in hand?
jaun sounds to me like yer Sis in Law ignored the Laws of her adopted country and decided to just do it her way

[pphilfran]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico. While documents are not routinely checked along the land border, Mexican authorities at immigration checkpoints approximately 20 to 30 kilometers from the border with the U.S. will often conduct vehicle and document inspections and will require valid travel documents and an entry permit or Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM). All U.S. citizens entering by land and traveling farther than 20 kilometers into Mexico should stop at an immigration checkpoint to obtain an FMM, even if not explicitly directed to do so by Mexican officials. Beyond the 20-30 kilometer border zone, all non-Mexican citizens must have valid immigration documents (FMM, FM2, FM3 or FME) regardless of the original place of entry. Failure to present an FMM when checking in for an international flight departing Mexico can result in delays or missed flights as airlines may insist that a valid FMM be obtained from Mexican immigration authorities (Instituto Nacional de Migración, INM) before issuing a boarding pass.

All U.S. citizens entering Mexico by sea, including U.S. citizens engaged in recreational or commercial fishing in Mexican territorial waters, are required to have an FMM. Additionally, boats engaged in commercial activities in Mexican waters, including sports fishing vessels, must be inspected and permitted by the Secretariat of Communications and Transportations (SCT), which publishes Spanish-language information on Mexican boating permit requirements. All U.S. citizens aged 16 or older must present a valid U.S. passport book to return to the United States via an international flight. All U.S. citizens aged 16 or older traveling outside of the United States by air, land or sea (except closed-loop cruises) are required to present a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) compliant document such as a passport book or a passport card to return to the United States. Travelers with passports that are found to be washed, mutilated or damaged may be refused entry to Mexico and returned to the United States. We strongly encourage all U.S. citizen travelers to apply for a U.S. passport well in advance of anticipated travel. U.S. citizens can visit the Bureau of Consular Affairs’ website or call 1-877-4USA-PPT (1-877-487-2778) for information on how to apply for their passports.

While WHTI compliant documents other than passport books are sufficient for re-entry into the United States by land or sea, they may not be accepted as entry documents by the particular country you plan to visit; please be sure to check with your cruise line and countries of destination for any foreign entry requirements.

Although Mexican Immigration regulations allow use of the passport card for entry into Mexico by air, travelers should be aware that the card may not be used to board international flights in the U.S. or to return to the U.S. from abroad by air. The passport card is available only to U.S. citizens. Further information on the Passport Card can be found on our website.

Legal permanent residents in possession of their I-551 Permanent Resident card may board flights to the United States from Mexico.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico.

She wasn't required to present a valid passport for travel into Mexico.

[olevetonahill]

She wasn't required to present a valid passport for travel into Mexico.

Ya reckon thats cause shes Messican ?And they just dint think to ask?

[yermom]

well, no one cares who goes into Mexico

i'm not sure the issue here. i was born here and i'm not about to leave the country without a passport. seems like a risk for no reason, especially if there might be a question of one's status on the way back in

[pphilfran]

She wasn't required to present a valid passport for travel into Mexico.

She made a mistake...you can enter Mexico without a passport but might have trouble ifr stopped by Mexican authorities...they took a risk and got caught...no reason to think you were singled out....

Another link...http://gomexico.about.com/od/entryrequirements/f/need_passport.htm

A passport or other WHTI-compliant travel document is necessary for U.S. and Canadian citizens traveling to Mexico. You may not be asked to present your passport if entering Mexico by land, but you will surely need to present one upon your return to the United States.

In the past, U.S. and Canadian citizens could travel to Mexico without a passport. In 2004, the US government initiated the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) with the goal of strengthening border security. With this initiative, passport requirements were phased in gradually depending on the mode of transportation used to enter and exit the country.

Timeline of passport requirement implementation:

Travel by air: In January 2007 the US Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) required all travelers entering or re-entering the United States by air to present a passport.

Travel by land or sea: As of June 2009, US citizens entering the United States by land or sea are required to present a passport or other WHTI compliant travel document such as a passport card.

Permanent Residents of the US: Document requirements for lawful permanent residents of the United States did not change under the WHTI. Permanent residents must present their I-551 Permanent Resident Card when entering the United States. A passport is not required to enter the US, but you may need one to enter Mexico, depending on your nationality.

A passport is the best form of international identification and having one may help you avoid hassles when crossing borders. Find out how to get a passport.

[okie52]

Ya reckon thats cause shes Messican ?And they just dint think to ask?

That would be profiling and we can't have that.

[olevetonahill]

That would be profiling and we can't have that.

No, The Messicans Can do that down there. Let a Gringo go wondering around with out the PROPER documents and see what happens

[KantoSooner]

She ran a risk ignoring the laws of both countries. Not that she would be denied, ultimately, her US citizenship, but the immigration cops can sure make you wait a while. In one of those little rooms with no door knobs on your side.

[pphilfran]

She ran a risk ignoring the laws of both countries. Not that she would be denied, ultimately, her US citizenship, but the immigration cops can sure make you wait a while. In one of those little rooms with no door knobs on your side.

Yep

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Why the hell did she travel without a passport? AA was correct, your family member, not so much.

[KABOOKIE]

This isn’t rocket science people. But I should mention most cultures understand rules apply to everyone.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Travel by land or sea: As of June 2009, US citizens entering the United States by land or sea are required to present a passport or other WHTI compliant travel document such as a passport card.
Well the U.S. boarder guard didn't enforce this. He accepted her two U.S. government issued photo IDs.


Why the hell did she travel without a passport? AA was correct, your family member, not so much.
Obviously she couldn't apply for a U.S. passport before being granted citizenship. Then she applied. It took much longer than anticipated. For those of you who work for a living, you know scheduling vacation time to match the spouse's can be difficult to do and undo. And airline tickets nowdays tend to be the non-refundable variety. I imagine when the passport didn't arrive in time, it was a reward-risk decision and they decided to take the risk.


This isn’t rocket science people. But I should mention most cultures understand rules apply to everyone.

Well, KABOOKIE, which "culture" actually enforced the rule? The American Airline employee in Los Angeles, presumably a U.S. citizen or legal resident, did not require her to present her passport to board the international flight, even though the U.S. state department says this is required.

The U.S. Boarder Guard at the San Diego port of entry allowed her to enter the U.S. without a passport, in spite of the policy statement philfran copied above.

It was the American Airline employee in Guadalajara, presumably a Mexican national, who was the enforcer of the rule.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You know SJS, i am shocked she was able to board a plane to leave the country without one. They check, always have with me before boarding as the airline doesn't want to get caught bringing back a PAX without ability to enter the country they just flew to. Without pp, i would have bitten the change fee and gone when paper was in hand.

[KABOOKIE]

Some cultures always blame others for their problems too.....

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Some cultures always blame others for their problems too.....
Nobody is blaming anyone for their problems here, KABOOKIE. I told a true story related to border security, with a small twist of irony. My sister in law was inconvenienced but tell me where she blamed anyone. You won't find it in my original post.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

OK, here is my first draft.


Honorable Secretary Clinton,

I can appreciate how busy you are with all the crazy mofos over there in the Eastern Hemisphere, making it difficult to attend to other important State Department matters.

I would like to make some suggestions for how the State Department can improve this great country of ours. We desperately need to upgrade our visa and passport technology to bring it up to 21st century standards. It is woefully inadequate. The snail’s pace in processing visas and passports inhibits economic growth and opportunity.

You are probably aware of our loss of market share of international tourism, from 17% of the market in 2000 down to 12% in 2010. Tourism used to be our Number 1 export, as measured by foreign currency brought into the U.S. But many international tourists are choosing to go elsewhere because of “the difficult, expensive, and degrading process to get a tourist visa” [according to Hawaiian Airlines’ CEO].

An increase in international tourism would create jobs, jobs, and more jobs.

I suggest the U.S. set up kiosks at all U.S. ports-of-entry and major international airports with frequent flights to the U.S. These kiosks could have modern day biometric means of assessing and issuing tourist visas and passports in a secure way to protect us from terrorists and convicted felons.

If we can determine whether a handgun purchaser is a convicted felon or known terrorist in less than 72 hours, surely we can issue tourist visas and passports in less than 60 days. We need to leave 1970s technology behind and upgrade to 21st century biometric technology.

By the way, I want you to know I voted for you in the 2008 California primary and I voted for you again as a write-in candidate in the 2012 California primary. I miss the days you and President Clinton were in The White House. Thank you for all you do for these United States. And thank you for convincing President Obama to waste Bin Laden. God Bless America. War DLC!

Signed,
SanJoaquinSooner

[Sooner5030]

SJS,

It might better to address it to Janet Napolitano. I've always used DHS for these sorts of things.

[okie52]

juan...you're a dem? I thought you were claiming to be a libertarian.

Nice groveling.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

juan...you're a dem? I thought you were claiming to be a libertarian.

Nice groveling.

Like olevet, I am a registered Democrat. It often gives you more choices in the primaries. But philosophically, I am a CATO libertarian. One distinguishing feature of President Clinton was his advocacy for free trade, it spite of objections from unions. Within the Democratic party I identify with the Democratic Leadership Council wing of the party over the liberal wing. I have voted for pubs and libertarians over Democrats in California races because many of the Democrats are lapdogs for the public employee unions who are bankrupting the state with their ridiculous benefits and early retirements.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I remember that the first time I traveled to Mexico as an adult, around 1980, I went with my girlfriend to Puerto Vallerta for a vacation. I didn't have a copy of my birth certificate so I took the postcard I received in the mail confirming that I was registered to vote. That and my Oklahoma Drivers License were sufficient to get me back into the U.S.

[rock on sooner]

Like olevet, I am a registered Democrat. It often gives you more choices in the primaries. But philosophically, I am a CATO libertarian. One distinguishing feature of President Clinton was his advocacy for free trade, it spite of objections from unions. Within the Democratic party I identify with the Democratic Leadership Council wing of the party over the liberal wing. I have voted for pubs and libertarians over Democrats in California races because many of the Democrats are lapdogs for the public employee unions who are bankrupting the state with their ridiculous benefits and early retirements.

Odd that being a registered Dem gives one more choices in the
political process...

[olevetonahill]

Odd that being a registered Dem gives one more choices in the
political process...

Why? Here in the reddest of Red states almost all county elections are decided in the primary's. Its stupid and we all know it, But its closed primary's here Usually only Dems file for office hence No General in the Fall

The Person running may be in their hearts a Libertarian, But Dem. has been so ingrained in their minds they can only run as one

[KantoSooner]

SJS has underlined one more simple and reasonable portion of immigration reform: get the passport and visa people to do their damn jobs.
My daughter, born in Minneapolis, always held US passport from birth though she's a dual national (Japan) got her passport in about 4 weeks this last time around (old one was expiring); which isn't bad. ON the other hand, some other family members have waited six months.
And don't even start on visas. I had a 60 year old Japanese company president coming to a business conference here. Couldn't get a visa in time. WTF? He's going to slink off into the grey economy and take away a valuable lettuce picking job?
The people we have running these operations are, by any measure whatsoever incompetent and lazy. Fire them, and let me run their beneifts and retirement programs. We'll see just how happy they are to deal with an unresponsive bureaucracy.

...those who live long enough for the appeal process to kick in.


...wear comfortable shoes and bring a snack, boys, you're in for a bit of a wait.

[olevetonahill]

Kanto, Why is your Daughter a Dual national?

[rock on sooner]

Why? Here in the reddest of Red states almost all county elections are decided in the primary's. Its stupid and we all know it, But its closed primary's here Usually only Dems file for office hence No General in the Fall

The Person running may be in their hearts a Libertarian, But Dem. has been so ingrained in their minds they can only run as one

Vet, can't you be a regeristered Pub and vote in the primaries?

[olevetonahill]

Vet, can't you be a regeristered Pub and vote in the primaries?


If the Pubs are having one , If not then NO

Member I said CLOSED primaries?

[rock on sooner]

If the Pubs are having one , If not then NO

Member I said CLOSED primaries?

'Kay, guess ima still not getting it. Are you saying that at the county and
local level, only Dems file for offices? Is it because the Pubs are all the
incumbents so they don't have primaries? Sorry, I left OK 41 years ago
and aint paid 'tention to politics there since, cept when people say "Red
State" and the outline of the state shows on the screen.