You don't need insurance, just go to the emergency room. -Rmoney

[yermom]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/mitt-romney-60-minutes-health-care_n_1908129.html


"Well, we do provide care for people who don't have insurance," he said in an interview with Scott Pelley of CBS's "60 Minutes" that aired Sunday night. "If someone has a heart attack, they don't sit in their apartment and die. We pick them up in an ambulance, and take them to the hospital, and give them care. And different states have different ways of providing for that care."

[okie52]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/mitt-romney-60-minutes-health-care_n_1908129.html

Wow...pretty incriminating.

[yermom]

so footage from him speaking on 60 Minutes isn't incriminating?

[okie52]

so footage from him speaking on 60 Minutes isn't incriminating?

Did he say something in your post that was inaccurate?

[yermom]

that's the solution for health care? we don't need to do anything because the way it worked before is fine?

[KABOOKIE]

Some how we managed to survive. Look around pal. The country is going down the tubes and libs want everything for free.

[okie52]

that's the solution for health care? we don't need to do anything because the way it worked before is fine?

I only read your post. What he said was accurate. Did he say that's all he'd do for healthcare?

[XingTheRubicon]

I think what Rmoney is trying to say is that the current way of paying for useless deadbeats > the new proposed obamacare way of paying for useless deadbeats.


and possibly that useless deadbeats vote dem, so ____ them.

[Midtowner]

Some how we managed to survive. Look around pal. The country is going down the tubes and libs want everything for free.

Actually, ObamaCare actually forces most everyone to actually pay for healthcare coverage.

In case you're keeping score, that's the opposite of getting it for free.

[marfacowboy]

Romney would be better off if he just stopped talking, mainly because he has nothing to say and when he does speak, he sounds like a callous prick out of touch with more than half of the country.
He's going to get destroyed by Obama in the debates.

[KantoSooner]

Actually, I was encouraged by these comments. Romney is absolutely right to point out that what we had prior to ACA/Obamacare WAS a system. We didn't lack a healthcare system or solution.

It was a system that completely sucked as it delayed care for a significant percentage of the population, maximizing suffering, maximizing cost, locking insurance to jobs so as to maximize risk during employment gaps, maximizing admin overhead and creating guaranteed mediocre health outcomes. But, by God, it was a system!

Maybe he'll take the next step and come up with a solution to the obvious shortcomings of the previous system.

and maybe he'll tell us what those solutions are.

Because there are a lot of us out here in tv land who aren't jumping up and down about Obamacare, but who also weren't pleased with the predecessor regime and haven't heard anyone put anything really sparkly on the table.

[badger]

Romney would be better off if he just stopped talking, mainly because he has nothing to say and when he does speak, he sounds like a callous prick out of touch with more than half of the country.
He's going to get destroyed by Obama in the debates.

I wouldn't have said it like that, but his comments aren't exactly encouraging. Some are contradictory to what he's previously said and done, so it is a bit... concerning.

Will it impact my vote? It doesn't matter how I vote. I'm in Oklahoma.

[Midtowner]

Romney would be better off if he just stopped talking, mainly because he has nothing to say and when he does speak, he sounds like a callous prick out of touch with more than half of the country.
He's going to get destroyed by Obama in the debates.

Romney would be better off if he was more like Ryan. What we need now is a candidate which will talk in specifics. Neither of them will. Romney's offering up vague generalities, i.e., we're going to do stuff to fix the economy and create jobs, but as to what, we'll tell you later. Obama is offering nothing whatsoever. He's just letting Romney dig his own hole.

Romney's problem is that he's relying on people voting against the President rather than for Romney. I'm not sure that's a sound strategy. At least the polls at this point don't reflect that.

[marfacowboy]

Romney would be better off if he was more like Ryan. What we need now is a candidate which will talk in specifics. Neither of them will. Romney's offering up vague generalities, i.e., we're going to do stuff to fix the economy and create jobs, but as to what, we'll tell you later. Obama is offering nothing whatsoever. He's just letting Romney dig his own hole.

Romney's problem is that he's relying on people voting against the President rather than for Romney. I'm not sure that's a sound strategy. At least the polls at this point don't reflect that.

agreed on all points....his candidacy is "I'm not Obama."

[pphilfran]

Actually, ObamaCare actually forces most everyone to actually pay for healthcare coverage.

In case you're keeping score, that's the opposite of getting it for free.

The current system has most people voluntarily paying for healthcare coverage....the ACA will decrease the amount without insurance by roughly half (something like that according to the latest CBO report)...better but still not the answer...

We do need a system that covers everyone...both the current system and ACA do not cover everyone...

[KABOOKIE]

Actually, ObamaCare actually forces most everyone to actually pay for healthcare coverage.

In case you're keeping score, that's the opposite of getting it for free.

I never said Obamacare was free. I said libs want everything for free.

[yermom]

isn't the biggest sticking point that you guys complain that deadbeats shouldn't have to pay for insurance they "don't need"? so they can just use the emergency room and drain the economy for the rest of us?

[pphilfran]

Who is you guys?

[KABOOKIE]

Who is you guys?

The 53%.

[pphilfran]

Emergency room care is expensive...that should not be the primary choice...

Even with the ACA there will still be a significant number of people using the emergency room for their primary care...it helps in this regard but is still not where we need to be...

[pphilfran]

The 53%.
Who is the 53%?

[BigTip]

agreed on all points....his candidacy is "I'm not Obama."

Bingo! Where do I vote?

[KABOOKIE]

Who is the 53%?

Those of us "livebeats" who pay taxes.

[pphilfran]

Ok

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

that's the solution for health care? we don't need to do anything because the way it worked before is fine?Socialized medicine is crap. HOW DID YOU LEARN TO THINK LIKE THAT?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Socialized medicine is crap. HOW DID YOU LEARN TO THINK LIKE THAT?
US life expectancy is 38th in the world, almost 4 years behind the leaders on average. Almost everyone ahead of us has socialized medicine, yet even pre-Obama care we were spending almost $2000 more per capita on healthcare. How can you say their system is so vastly inferior, when it clearly delivers better results than ours?

Honest question here, I'm not saying a single-payer system is the answer to our problems because there are clear cultural differences in say, Sweden and America, that makes socialized medicine much more likely to be effective there. The NHS in England, even though it has been struggling recently, still enjoys a majority of support and customer satisfaction.

Is single-payer healthcare something like what Churchill said of democracy?

[pphilfran]

US life expectancy is 38th in the world, almost 4 years behind the leaders on average. Almost everyone ahead of us has socialized medicine, yet even pre-Obama care we were spending almost $2000 more per capita on healthcare. How can you say their system is so vastly inferior, when it clearly delivers better results than ours?

So why didn't we adapt one of the systems that is significanly better instead of putting together the hodgepodge ACA?
I would have liked to see the Swiss system implemented...

[pphilfran]

Life expectancy is also dependent on many criteria other then healthcare coverage...overweight, eating habits, and stress contribute significantly and the ACA cannot deal with any of those problems...

[KABOOKIE]

the US used be #1 in awesome too. We'll be 38th in that in a few years with all these commie socialistic programs. But hey, maybe we'll close that life expectancy gap by 1.24 years. Wahoo! :rolleyes:

[Skysooner]

US life expectancy is 38th in the world, almost 4 years behind the leaders on average. Almost everyone ahead of us has socialized medicine, yet even pre-Obama care we were spending almost $2000 more per capita on healthcare. How can you say their system is so vastly inferior, when it clearly delivers better results than ours?

The only place the US medicine is better overall is in high end health care (i.e. rare cancers, etc.). In general wellness, we are good but not great. Emergency rooms are not the place to get wellness care. I have type II diabetes and yet my prognosis is very good as I have a good GP that monitors my situation, knows me and makes sure I get the tests I need. In the situation where I'm going to an emergency room every 3 months to treat symptoms, I won't last that long.

That being said, the current system that provides free wellness care doesn't work that well. The people that need it most have the highest rate of not showing up to doctor's appointments. I'm not sure how we address that either.

RLIMC has no answers at all. He only snipes.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

So why didn't we adapt one of the systems that is significanly better instead of putting together the hodgepodge ACA?
I would have liked to see the Swiss system implemented...
I agree, I don't think ACA will be effective in reducing cost or improving patient care. I'm not familiar with the Swiss model, but they do most things right :p


Life expectancy is also dependent on many criteria other then healthcare coverage...overweight, eating habits, and stress contribute significantly and the ACA cannot deal with any of those problems...
Very true, I edited the statement late to add 'cultural differences' that are conducive to healthcare being effective of ineffective. All the "free" healthcare in the world won't fix the fact that a lot of Americans are lazy fatasses

[KantoSooner]

That's true, so why didn't we look at, oh, Australia. Aussies are pretty ethnically similar to the US. They smoke like goddamn chimneys and drink like there was no tomorrow. They wear tank tops as they grill loads of meat in the sunshine and drive like drunken Alabamians with their seat belts off. They're afraid they might be late to the street fight outside their favorite bar. And if they're late for that, they won't have a chance at STDs from that hot new stripper.
In short, they are not angels, either in behavior or genetically. They have national health. The results seem to be no worse than here. And yet they spend half what we do. Sounds like something we might like to check out, no? Apparently no. Because we didn't look at this one, or the Swiss plan, hell, we never even thought about expanding Medicare or the VA system (maybe not the best ideas, but worth a look, you'd have thought).
Half our healthcare budget would be something on the order of $375 billion per year. If we devoted that money to paying down the debt, we'd be debt free within 40 years. And we'd be able to buy every bridge to nowhere that every Senator wanted to build. Or keep a kick *** military. Or just fill the Grand Canyon with singles and let people go money diving.
But no. We had no national debate. We didn't think about it. WE aren't serious about this.

[Midtowner]

Life expectancy is also dependent on many criteria other then healthcare coverage...overweight, eating habits, and stress contribute significantly and the ACA cannot deal with any of those problems...

I've heard differently. I think it must have been on NPR, probably the Diane Rehm show (because where else do you hear interviews where people aren't yelling talking points at eachother) where the CEO of Wellpoint was being interviewed sometime subsequent to the SCOTUS' blessing of the ACA. They are looking at a lot of ways to compete and stay relevant in the new open marketplace where they're going to have to compete on price and service. One of those ways is to offer more wellness services as well as bigger discounts to folks who aren't overweight, don't smoke, etc.

Part of why the ACA works is because it gives consumers the opportunity to compare products side by side based on features and price through the exchanges. The Wellpoint CEO was pretty uplifting to listen to. If he practices what he preaches, maybe this whole thing will work out.

[Midtowner]

We had no national debate. We didn't think about it. WE aren't serious about this.

You can't have a national debate when one side won't even participate.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You can't have a national debate when one side won't even participate. Libspeak translation: It's too hard to cram socialism down the throats of America when the constitutionalists disapprove, and vote against it.

[yermom]

The 53%.

so the people paying taxes would rather foot the bill for the people that don't want to buy insurance?

[olevetonahill]

Marfa would be better off if he just stopped talking, mainly because he has nothing to say and when he does speak, he sounds like a callous, condescendin prick out of touch with more than half of the country.


FIFY
By the way I thot you said you were leaving until OU got a new Coach.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The 53%, and hopefully more, want Obear done and gone, and the removal of his dirty little souveniers.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

FIFY
By the way I thot you said you were leaving until OU got a new Coach.marfac gots the blinders on when anyone sez stuff like that.

[Soonerjeepman]

agreed on all points....his candidacy is "I'm not Obama."

wow something I actually agree with you two...lol. Unfortunately the Pubs have a great chance to actually tell us what they will do different and just screwing it up. obama has done nothing and is doing nothing..

[KABOOKIE]

so the people paying taxes would rather foot the bill for the people that don't want to buy insurance?

Yes. I'm pretty sure Obamacare would have failed by a larger margin than 53% if given to the American people to vote on it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

And CBS selectively edits out The Socialist saying he is running a dirty campaign by running false and misleading political ads...

Yermom, you got nothing.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Libspeak translation: It's too hard to cram socialism down the throats of America when the constitutionalists disapprove, and vote against it.
Like he said...its hard to have a discussion when you come back with this crap instead of substantive evidence.

[Midtowner]

Libspeak translation: It's too hard to cram socialism down the throats of America when the constitutionalists disapprove, and vote against it.

Who's a constitutionalist in this scenario? I'm pretty sure I remember the Supreme Court, led by Justice Roberts, a very conservative jurist, saying that this was 100% constitutional as a tax. Further, it was a Republican proposal in the first place.

[hawaii 5-0]

I'd love to Obamacare modified to be more effective.

There's too many things about it I like that I wouldn't want it scrapped altogether.

The Healthcare Providers and the Drug Companies need to be reined in. It's crazy to charge >$100 for a stinkin' pill.

5-0

[FaninAma]

Actually, ObamaCare actually forces most everyone to actually pay for healthcare coverage.

In case you're keeping score, that's the opposite of getting it for free.

Actually that is not accurate. Under Obama's plan there will be 18 to 20 million NEW patients covered by Medicaid. Medicaid recipients pay NOTHING for their health care. Other sources estimate that number could rise north of 30 million(or more) if individuals start dropping their employee health issurance that they are required to pay part of the premiums for. Also remember that Medicaid patients utilize physicians' offices and ER's at a rate almost double that of insurance patients and almost 4 times the rate for self pay.

I seriously doubt all of the new Medicaid patients are going to magically find doctors tht will accept them into their practices especially when you consider the fact that the nation currently is experiencing a net loss of about 10,00 doctors a year with the loss expected to increase to 20,000 a year by 2020.

So, the bottom line is if you are planning on making an after hours visit to the local ER or any Urgent Care that accepts Medicaid you better plan on taking your sleeping bag and a good book(or two).

BTW, guess where part of the funding for the expanded Medicaid program is coming from? If you guessed Medicare and Tricare(military insurance) you would be correct.

[pphilfran]

I've heard differently. I think it must have been on NPR, probably the Diane Rehm show (because where else do you hear interviews where people aren't yelling talking points at eachother) where the CEO of Wellpoint was being interviewed sometime subsequent to the SCOTUS' blessing of the ACA. They are looking at a lot of ways to compete and stay relevant in the new open marketplace where they're going to have to compete on price and service. One of those ways is to offer more wellness services as well as bigger discounts to folks who aren't overweight, don't smoke, etc.

Part of why the ACA works is because it gives consumers the opportunity to compare products side by side based on features and price through the exchanges. The Wellpoint CEO was pretty uplifting to listen to. If he practices what he preaches, maybe this whole thing will work out.

Being able to compare policies side by side is a good thing....but how are they going to tell if you are overweight or smoke? Are they going to require complete physicals for everyone that applies? Will unions with company supplied insurance allow different policy rates for their members?

Currently when I apply for insurance they ask me questions...if I were to lie about my smoking habits and then I have a claim where they find out I do smoke they dump my azz and refuse payment...with the new ACA they cannot dump me or refuse payment so what will be their recourse? Attempt to figure out when I started smoking and back charge me a higher rate?

[FaninAma]

The only place the US medicine is better overall is in high end health care (i.e. rare cancers, etc.). In general wellness, we are good but not great. Emergency rooms are not the place to get wellness care. I have type II diabetes and yet my prognosis is very good as I have a good GP that monitors my situation, knows me and makes sure I get the tests I need. In the situation where I'm going to an emergency room every 3 months to treat symptoms, I won't last that long.

That being said, the current system that provides free wellness care doesn't work that well. The people that need it most have the highest rate of not showing up to doctor's appointments. I'm not sure how we address that either.

RLIMC has no answers at all. He only snipes.

You make some valid points. Statisitcs do show that 70% of healthcare expenditures are spent on patients in their last 6 months of life. But to change this means there will have to tough decisions made regarding the distribution of healthcare resources. Are you ready for that kind of rationing? Is the country ready for this?

BTW, we do need a lot more primary care doctors to institute a European/Canadian type system. It will take years to reach the levels we need.

[LiveLaughLove]

agreed on all points....his candidacy is "I'm not Obama."

And Obama's candidacy is "I'm not Bush, remember him? Please."

[hawaii 5-0]

Who's a constitutionalist in this scenario? I'm pretty sure I remember the Supreme Court, led by Justice Roberts, a very conservative jurist, saying that this was 100% constitutional as a tax. Further, it was a Republican proposal in the first place.


How soon people forget that socialized medicine was originally a Republican policy plank.

And that Romney is the father of socialized medicine in the USA.

5-0

[okie52]

How soon people forget that socialized medicine was originally a Republican policy plank.

And that Romney is the father of socialized medicine in the USA.

5-0

Yes it was and Ted Kennedy had the bill defeated.

[marfacowboy]

And Obama's candidacy is "I'm not Bush, remember him? Please."

Yeah, that's your boy! Now you want to go back to same old crap. You're not the brightest star in the sky.

[cccasooner2]

I wouldn't have said it like that, but his comments aren't exactly encouraging. Some are contradictory to what he's previously said and done, so it is a bit... concerning.

Will it impact my vote? It doesn't matter how I vote. I'm in Oklahoma.

And more concerned with poop? Congratulations new mom. :)

[Sooner5030]

How soon people forget that socialized medicine was originally a Republican policy plank.

And that Romney is the father of socialized medicine in the USA.

5-0

And I am pretty sure Nixon started the DEA.....doesn't mean I like it one bit. Why do you make these simpleton arguments?

If you liberal f-sticks weren't so busy making your med-tech and pharma friends rich we could actually put some resources for expanded basic care. Instead....you guys will suck up all the resources for BC, Ritalin, Prozac, hard-on pills and every other therapeutic care known to man while little johnny with a compound fracture is no better off than he was five years ago.

I am so sick of libs preaching like they care about the poor. Donate some of your time to a indigent care facility before bragging about required pills in plans...plz tnx.

[8timechamps]

If healthcare was a major issue for most voters, then a real conversation could be had on the topic. It's a non-starter for most voters though.

It will become a major issue if it's not addressed in the near future. The ACA is a start, but it's not the answer for many reasons (Faninama hit on what I think is the biggest). Until this country learns that education is the basis for correcting issues like this, we'll continue to fight change in the system.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

If you liberal f-sticks weren't so busy making your med-tech and pharma friends rich we could actually put some resources for expanded basic care. Instead....you guys will suck up all the resources for BC, Ritalin, Prozac, hard-on pills and every other therapeutic care known to man while little johnny with a compound fracture is no better off than he was five years ago.

I am so sick of libs preaching like they care about the poor. Donate some of your time to a indigent care facility before bragging about required pills in plans...plz tnx.
da fuq

[hawaii 5-0]

I have donated time at a Free Clinic for those not covered with insurance.

I didn't see anyone there spouting their political biases.

Just people caring for those that needed care and couldn't afford it.

5-0

[cleller]

I've heard differently. I think it must have been on NPR, probably the Diane Rehm show (because where else do you hear interviews where people aren't yelling talking points at eachother) where the CEO of Wellpoint was being interviewed sometime subsequent to the SCOTUS' blessing of the ACA. They are looking at a lot of ways to compete and stay relevant in the new open marketplace where they're going to have to compete on price and service. One of those ways is to offer more wellness services as well as bigger discounts to folks who aren't overweight, don't smoke, etc.

Part of why the ACA works is because it gives consumers the opportunity to compare products side by side based on features and price through the exchanges. The Wellpoint CEO was pretty uplifting to listen to. If he practices what he preaches, maybe this whole thing will work out.

I think I heard the same show, but just felt sorry for the guy. Didn't he point out that it the sickest people who use the most services should pay more in a logical world?
How would that ever be a political possibility in this country? In my experience the people that use the services the most tend to be the ones already on Medicaid. I rarely go to the doctor. When I do, I have to pay out of my pocket anyway, because my insurance doesn't cover the first $1000/year.

How do you get thru to people that have never paid a doctor or insurance company in their lives? Hopefully everyone, regardless of income will have to pay something, just to get their attention. Those who are overweight, smoke, or have other correctable issues should pay more.

[Midtowner]

I think I heard the same show, but just felt sorry for the guy. Didn't he point out that it the sickest people who use the most services should pay more in a logical world?

Trouble is, as a practical matter, the sickest people don't have the money to pay. Healthcare, for it to be efficient has to be prepaid, shared by all. That can be either insurance or socialism. We're giving the free market a last shot right now.


How do you get thru to people that have never paid a doctor or insurance company in their lives? Hopefully everyone, regardless of income will have to pay something, just to get their attention. Those who are overweight, smoke, or have other correctable issues should pay more.

Absolutely. I think they will. The ACA has no cost limitations.

[KantoSooner]

5030,
Occaissionally, I come across a phrase or word that entrances me and I just have to know more.
Such a term is 'liberal f*ck stick'. Right up there with 'whistle prick' (or, more completely 'whistle prick son of a bitch' to quote my paternal grandfather). What is a 'f*ck stick' and how can it be 'liberal'? Are you referring to male genetalia? A plastic copy of same? Or is it more of a metaphorical thing? Something like referring to someone as a drone without real reference to a worker bee? And, again, how does 'liberal' work in here? I tried the normal search engines without avail and now must trouble you for a definition. And any usage guides and history. For instance, if derived from Middle French, is there a relation to 'Baton d'Phuque'? If from Old English, is there a connection to the famous 'Frikken Puul'? So many questions....

[pphilfran]

Absolutely. I think they will. The ACA has no cost limitations.

So the Affordable Care Act might not be so affordable?

I thought the reason for insurance was to share risk, limit exposure, and average out overall cost of policy holders...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So the Affordable Care Act might not be so affordable?

I thought the reason for insurance was to share risk, limit exposure, and average out overall cost of policy holders...

So I read this morning that under The Socialist, medical premiums have INCREASED by an average of $3000.00
per family. Yeah, hows that hopey and changey...

[pphilfran]

So I read this morning that under The Socialist's medical premiums have INCREASED by an average of $3000.00
per family. Yeah, hows that hopey and changey...

Not everything is in place...but I don't think there is anything in the bill that will impact the rising cost of insurance to the point that it meets normal inflation levels....

As long as we expect to have everything paid for through insurance I don't expect to see any significant cost inflation reduction....

When we expect insurance to pay for a 30 dollar prescription then we should expect that 30 dollar prescription will end up costing a 100 bucks (whatever the actual cost, it will be significantly higher than 30 bucks being paid out of pocket) after paperwork filing going through several layers and a check being written by the provider...

[Midtowner]

So I read this morning that under The Socialist's medical premiums have INCREASED by an average of $3000.00
per family. Yeah, hows that hopey and changey...

This sentence is a good example of how a misplaced apostrophe can skew the meaning of the entire sentence. Please learn basic grammar.

What do I care about the price of "The Socialist's" medical premiums? Those are his own bills.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yeah, you are correct, I had another thought and changed it, so the original is a bit off, I will change it. Thanks for the edit.

[Midtowner]

So I read this morning that under The Socialist, medical premiums have INCREASED by an average of $3000.00
per family. Yeah, hows that hopey and changey...

And with your edit, it's difficult to say what the 2014 changes will bring. We know that more folks will buy insurance, so should that decrease prices? I'm hopeful that it will when we have the pressures of a free and open exchange market as well as the influx of millions of new customers. If prices don't go down, then we'll know that we need a more socialist approach in order to really fix things.

[pphilfran]

Swiss system

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How in the hell will anything go down in price once the government gets their hands in it?? NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

Here is what will happen with Socialized Medicine. Americans will not seek the profession as MDs like they used to, we will be forced to import MDs say from Pakistan, India, or other 3rd world locations just as the UK and Canada have been forced to. We will see long waits, perhaps up to several months to get appointments, just like the UK and Canada and Mass. In fact, last year, Alberta had to make a one time extra tax levy on Provincial citizens to pay for use of private companies to help reduce the patient backlog on xrays, mri's, cat scans, etc. The back log then was over 6 months. We will see more of our government funds pay into the medical system. It has been estimated that to pay for everything we are 'entitled' to now, the pay roll tax rate will have to rise to 44% from the current roughly averaged 15%.

[okie52]

Swiss system

I like what I've heard about the Swiss system. As I understand it, basic coverage for all at about half of the cost US citizens are paying now. Upgrades being available for an additional charge.

A far better system than Obamacare.

[Midtowner]

How in the hell will anything go down in price once the government gets their hands in it?? NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

This opinion only demonstrates that you don't know what the ACA actually is or that you don't know what socialism is.

Hint: It is the opposite of socialism.

[KantoSooner]

And simpler, too. AND, if we wanted to, this basic care could be conducted in an expanded VA hospital and clinic system.

For example, I don't think anyone anyone would be terribly upset if, when going to get their flu shot, the carpet in the waiting room was a bit tatty or if the doctor supervising bore a striking resemblance to Doogy Houser.

There are a lot of basic medical care items that simply don't require a $4,000/hr 'God Doctor' in charge with 'House' type labs and emergency rooms playing backup.

[rock on sooner]

How in the hell will anything go down in price once the government gets their hands in it?? NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

Here is what will happen with Socialized Medicine. Americans will not seek the profession as MDs like they used to, we will be forced to import MDs say from Pakistan, India, or other 3rd world locations just as the UK and Canada have been forced to. We will see long waits, perhaps up to several months to get appointments, just like the UK and Canada and Mass. In fact, last year, Alberta had to make a one time extra tax levy on Provincial citizens to pay for use of private companies to help reduce the patient backlog on xrays, mri's, cat scans, etc. The back log then was over 6 months. We will see more of our government funds pay into the medical system. It has been estimated that to pay for everything we are 'entitled' to now, the pay roll tax rate will have to rise to 44% from the current roughly averaged 15%.

THA, right now roughly 25% of US doctors are foreign born and a significant
number of American doctors studied and were trained abroad...e.g the doc
that did my first colonoscopy was/is Jordanian, the doc that replaced my worn
out shoulder is Latino. Has nothing to do with socialized medicine...imo..

[Midtowner]

And simpler, too. AND, if we wanted to, this basic care could be conducted in an expanded VA hospital and clinic system.

For example, I don't think anyone anyone would be terribly upset if, when going to get their flu shot, the carpet in the waiting room was a bit tatty or if the doctor supervising bore a striking resemblance to Doogy Houser.

There are a lot of basic medical care items that simply don't require a $4,000/hr 'God Doctor' in charge with 'House' type labs and emergency rooms playing backup.

One of the biggest problems out there is the scarcity of medical schools. If states wanted to bring the cost of medicine down, they'd build more schools. Even the worst medical schools turn away lots of applicants. It's so bad that Ross and other Mediterranean schools are able to enroll full classes.

It's basic infrastructure investment. Med schools though, have to be subsidized. They can't be run for a profit like nursing or law schools.

[diverdog]

5030,
Occaissionally, I come across a phrase or word that entrances me and I just have to know more.
Such a term is 'liberal f*ck stick'. Right up there with 'whistle prick' (or, more completely 'whistle prick son of a bitch' to quote my paternal grandfather). What is a 'f*ck stick' and how can it be 'liberal'? Are you referring to male genetalia? A plastic copy of same? Or is it more of a metaphorical thing? Something like referring to someone as a drone without real reference to a worker bee? And, again, how does 'liberal' work in here? I tried the normal search engines without avail and now must trouble you for a definition. And any usage guides and history. For instance, if derived from Middle French, is there a relation to 'Baton d'Phuque'? If from Old English, is there a connection to the famous 'Frikken Puul'? So many questions....


LOL How about Tā mā de bàng

I love learning new swear words so I can be one step ahead of Turd.

[Midtowner]

Being able to compare policies side by side is a good thing....but how are they going to tell if you are overweight or smoke? Are they going to require complete physicals for everyone that applies? Will unions with company supplied insurance allow different policy rates for their members?

Every company is free to implement their own pricing strategy.


Currently when I apply for insurance they ask me questions...if I were to lie about my smoking habits and then I have a claim where they find out I do smoke they dump my azz and refuse payment...with the new ACA they cannot dump me or refuse payment so what will be their recourse? Attempt to figure out when I started smoking and back charge me a higher rate?

It wouldn't be a preexisting condition, it'd be fraud. That's probably pretty solid ground for them to stand on when they drop you off of the policy.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

THA, right now roughly 25% of US doctors are foreign born and a significant
number of American doctors studied and were trained abroad...e.g the doc
that did my first colonoscopy was/is Jordanian, the doc that replaced my worn
out shoulder is Latino. Has nothing to do with socialized medicine...imo..

Yes, but today they are the cream of the crop, they compete and earn money based on their abilities. That goes out the window with socialized medicine when everything is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and MD salaries are controlled and limited.

[KantoSooner]

My doctor in socialized medicine Japan drove a cute M55 Benz, his wife drove the Benz wagon. They lived in a nice home in downtown Tokyo....with a half basketball court in the side yard. (Imagine this in Midtown Manhattan for comparison in terms of lifestyle. Jawdropping.) He took his family to Europe, the US or Aussie once or twice a year on vacation. They flew Business class at least once because I happened to be on the same flight.

Now, maybe he was crying his eyes out at night due to financial want, but it seemed from the outside, at least, that he had sufficient monetary motivation to get his *** out of bed in the morning and go to work.

[FaninAma]

My doctor in socialized medicine Japan drove a cute M55 Benz, his wife drove the Benz wagon. They lived in a nice home in downtown Tokyo....with a half basketball court in the side yard. (Imagine this in Midtown Manhattan for comparison in terms of lifestyle. Jawdropping.) He took his family to Europe, the US or Aussie once or twice a year on vacation. They flew Business class at least once because I happened to be on the same flight.

Now, maybe he was crying his eyes out at night due to financial want, but it seemed from the outside, at least, that he had sufficient monetary motivation to get his *** out of bed in the morning and go to work.

I was offered a position in Mt. Issa, Australia that paid almost double what I make here. I declined it because of family reasons.Physicians in so-called socialized medicine systems do very well, especially primary care.

I did learn a bit about their government ran system. Everybody pays a co-pay to see the doctor which
meant they had a financial investment in the decision to go to the doctor in
the firstplace. The co-pay averaged about $20 to $25 dollars.

The per person expenditures in the socialized system is about 1/3rd of ours. I suspect part of that is less utilization and part of it is due to the fact there are too many people trying to extract a profit from the healthcare system in this country.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The per person expenditures in the socialized system is about 1/3rd of ours. I suspect part of that is less utilization and part of it is due to the fact there are too many people trying to extract a profit from the healthcare system in this country.
I would agree that there are too many hands in the till. I have no idea how medicine ran back in the 50s and 60s as I was just a wee one, but I didn't hear my parents complain and I always went to the MD or DDS. I remember there may have been more forms to fill out, but it seemed simpler.

I had heard good things of Japanese medicine, though most of it is from expats. I don't know what the typical Japanese gets or pays for. There taxes are higher than ours I believe.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yeah, that's your boy! Now you want to go back to same old crap. You're not the brightest star in the sky.The guy not apparently able, or not honest enough, to properly analyze what happened to the economy, and to not acknowledge what is going on now, is once again throwing out the stupid card. Anyone surprised? haha

[Midtowner]

I would agree that there are too many hands in the till. I have no idea how medicine ran back in the 50s and 60s as I was just a wee one, but I didn't hear my parents complain and I always went to the MD or DDS. I remember there may have been more forms to fill out, but it seemed simpler.

To be fair, you were probably around 8 :)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yes, but today they are the cream of the crop, they compete and earn money based on their abilities. That goes out the window with socialized medicine when everything is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and MD salaries are controlled and limited.This is one silly-as*ed thread. Par for the course from our Soonerfans Libz.

This election is about canning the Obear, and repealing the Obamacare socialized medicine. 41 more days of daze.

[yermom]

this is the most important election in the history of forevar!

get rid of Orange Juice Can before it's too late!

what is it like for the sky to constantly be falling?

[KantoSooner]

As I recall the deal in Japan (my ex-wife and her mom ran family finances, I just worked), we, as a family ol 3 paid around $500 a month for national health. This was partly based on income level; and I was doing pretty well. Co-pays were around $5 a visit and meds were subsidized so that you rarely paid more than $10 a perscription. A little more if x-rays, casts, or crutches, etc were involved.
Ambulances are free and run by the state.
Transplantation is almost unknown (Buddhist squeamishness about the body not being all together at death).
You had to cart your own lab reports etc from one doctor to another in the hospital, so the patients end up doing some of the orderly work.
High end medicine is not as advanced as here. Palliative care is far better there.
Several famous graft scandals over the past decade. They are not angels.
Over all, it's probably something of a wash at a lower price with better overall outcomes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"This is one silly-as*ed thread. Par for the course from our Soonerfans Libz.

This election is about canning the Obear, and repealing the Obamacare socialized medicine. 41 more days of daze."-me


what is it like for the sky to constantly be falling?if/when the hard crunch comes, we'll all see, and even then you might not even admit why.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

that's the solution for health care? we don't need to do anything because the way it worked before is fine?You're too young to remember, but it worked very well before the govt.(democrats)started to screw around with it. Obamacare is the final monstrosity that will mess up healthcare to the nth degree, once and maybe for all, if it survives.

[49r]

Can't embed a youtube video...
Unable to figure out how the multiquote function works...
Unable/Unwilling to spell certain words/names correctly, ever...

Yet, still expects to be taken seriously.

Epic!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Can't embed a youtube video...
Unable to figure out how the multiquote function works...
Unable/Unwilling to spell certain words/names correctly, ever...

Yet, still expects to be taken seriously.

Epic!Lightning-quick use of the stupid card. Classic response!
Unwilling/unable to address ideas, or his own silly adherance to nannystatism.

Unwilling to think(or believe) I haven't tried to learn some things on the computer, and that his excuse for an argument is meaningless.
Yet, still expects to be taken seriously, when he? hasn't even said anything about obamacare here, nor offered constitutional or conservative ideas(those that are proven to create a good economy and a working society.

effing silly!

(as if a socialist like him would take anything conservative seriously, and be willing to learn just how wrong his ideas are, regardless of any computer skills.

[KantoSooner]

You're too young to remember, but it worked very well before the govt.(democrats)started to screw around with it. Obamacare is the final monstrosity that will mess up healthcare to the nth degree, once and maybe for all, if it survives.

When was that? the 1960's? The 1950's? Earlier? I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say that everything was dandy back then. For one thing, our life expectancy was what? About 60? And we tended to die of things like heart attacks. And we had, a la the famous inspiration for AARP, retired teachers living in abandoned chicken coops.
A bit of tinkering was not illogical given those facts.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

When was that? the 1960's? The 1950's? Earlier? I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say that everything was dandy back then. For one thing, our life expectancy was what? About 60? And we tended to die of things like heart attacks. And we had, a la the famous inspiration for AARP, retired teachers living in abandoned chicken coops.
A bit of tinkering was not illogical given those facts.You a socialized medicine guy?

[Midtowner]

When was that? the 1960's? The 1950's? Earlier? I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say that everything was dandy back then. For one thing, our life expectancy was what? About 60? And we tended to die of things like heart attacks. And we had, a la the famous inspiration for AARP, retired teachers living in abandoned chicken coops.
A bit of tinkering was not illogical given those facts.

In the 1960s and 50s, the top marginal rate was in excess of 90% for much of that time and at least 70% thereafter.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

When was that? the 1960's? The 1950's? Earlier? I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say that everything was dandy back then. For one thing, our life expectancy was what? About 60? And we tended to die of things like heart attacks. And we had, a la the famous inspiration for AARP, retired teachers living in abandoned chicken coops.
A bit of tinkering was not illogical given those facts.
Lets not forget the glory days when life expectancy was 10 years shorter

[KantoSooner]

You a socialized medicine guy?

I am:
1. A guy who's convinced that the pre-ACA system was terminally ****ed and had nothing to do with 'capitalism' or a 'free market'. (it had been jiggered up for decades by health insurance (private) that had been constructed not to produce health outcomes but to avoid income tax, by a legal system that slanted the table against doctors' judgement and towared defensive medicine, by insurance patients who were not paying for their own treatment, by a medical industry that operated (and still does) as a closed cartel with every motivation to boost costs without reference to outcomes, and by a political system so deeply in the pocket of the above cartel that increasingly the patients and voters had no voice at all)
2. A guy who looked at the world's variety of systems and saw a variety of approaches that produced healthcare that was every bit as good as ours and vastly less expensive. And that some of these options were single payer, government run systems.
3. A guy who also saw that many Americans could not afford healthcare and were thus delaying healthcare until they were in emergencies...that then cost way more to fix than they would have earlier....and that we all ended up paying for anyway.
4. A guy who realized that healthcare costs were bankrupting American business and acted as a huge drag on our economy and on the competitiveness of American companies against foreign competitors.
5. A guy who was so sick of the BS system preceding ACA that he was and is willing to look at any solution at all and was relishing a free, open and wide ranging debate. And got, instead, an incoherent mishmash jammed through in the wee hours of the night that, to my reading, does not address one single major shortcoming of the predecessor system.
6. And I'm also a guy who has lived under socialized medicine and found it to work, in general, better than our predecessor system. Do I think we can do better? Yep. I still do believe that; and still hope we'll address the reformation of this nearly 20% of our national economy from the hideous, non-functional mess we have now in a serious and adult manner.

If all that falls within one of the nifty little pigeon holes that masquerade as reasoned debate these days, then I'm that guy.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't blame you for dropping the subject of supporting Obear by voting 3rd party. It's not a pleasant thought to be in that club.

A Libertarian who wants little or no government control of our lives, but who wants socialized medicine...no wonder you have difficulty choosing who should get your vote.

[pphilfran]

I am:
1. A guy who's convinced that the pre-ACA system was terminally ****ed and had nothing to do with 'capitalism' or a 'free market'. (it had been jiggered up for decades by health insurance (private) that had been constructed not to produce health outcomes but to avoid income tax, by a legal system that slanted the table against doctors' judgement and towared defensive medicine, by insurance patients who were not paying for their own treatment, by a medical industry that operated (and still does) as a closed cartel with every motivation to boost costs without reference to outcomes, and by a political system so deeply in the pocket of the above cartel that increasingly the patients and voters had no voice at all)
2. A guy who looked at the world's variety of systems and saw a variety of approaches that produced healthcare that was every bit as good as ours and vastly less expensive. And that some of these options were single payer, government run systems.
3. A guy who also saw that many Americans could not afford healthcare and were thus delaying healthcare until they were in emergencies...that then cost way more to fix than they would have earlier....and that we all ended up paying for anyway.
4. A guy who realized that healthcare costs were bankrupting American business and acted as a huge drag on our economy and on the competitiveness of American companies against foreign competitors.
5. A guy who was so sick of the BS system preceding ACA that he was and is willing to look at any solution at all and was relishing a free, open and wide ranging debate. And got, instead, an incoherent mishmash jammed through in the wee hours of the night that, to my reading, does not address one single major shortcoming of the predecessor system.
6. And I'm also a guy who has lived under socialized medicine and found it to work, in general, better than our predecessor system. Do I think we can do better? Yep. I still do believe that; and still hope we'll address the reformation of this nearly 20% of our national economy from the hideous, non-functional mess we have now in a serious and adult manner.

If all that falls within one of the nifty little pigeon holes that masquerade as reasoned debate these days, then I'm that guy.

I am a guy that wishes RLIMC would post a reasonable thought...

[Midtowner]

I don't blame you for dropping the subject of supporting Obear by voting 3rd party. It's not a pleasant thought to be in that club.

A Libertarian who wants little or no government control of our lives, but who wants socialized medicine...no wonder you have difficulty choosing who should get your vote.

He was answering your question.

Sometimes I wonder whether you're a real person or some pre-programmed AI which spouts talking points.

[KantoSooner]

I don't blame you for dropping the subject of supporting Obear by voting 3rd party. It's not a pleasant thought to be in that club.

A Libertarian who wants little or no government control of our lives, but who wants socialized medicine...no wonder you have difficulty choosing who should get your vote.

Final response to this nonsense: I have stopped trying to triple think the system and figure out where to vote to maximize my leverage. I'm simply going to vote for something that best approximates what I believe. And let the chips fall.
So, no, I'm not voting to support Obama. And I'm not voting against or for Romney. I'm voting Libertarian because it's closest to what I believe.
See? Voting FOR something, not AGAINST something else. There's a difference.

As to my support for socialized medicine, I would suggest a reread of my post above. Clearly you didn't read or understand it when you looked at it the first time.

If you need to ask any questions or have parts explained to you, please private message me and I'll set some time aside to unpack any of the more challenging concepts alluded to.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No your wisdom is special, and I'm sure it makes great sense to cast half a vote for Obama, especially since it is He who demands socialized medicine, after all. Since you don't want some socialism, but are OK with govt. control of our bodies, you can't give wholeheared support to Him. Half is probably about right for you.

[yermom]

i'd rather see socialized medicine than what we have. if that makes me a socialist, than i guess i'm a socialist.

[Midtowner]

No your wisdom is special, and I'm sure it makes great sense to cast half a vote for Obama, especially since it is He who demands socialized medicine, after all. Since you don't want some socialism, but are OK with govt. control of our bodies, you can't give wholeheared support to Him. Half is probably about right for you.

You apparently don't know what socialism is.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You apparently don't know what socialism is.that's cuz I and all conservatives, are s-t-u-p-i-d...or, at least crazy. and man, do we ever HATE!!!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He was answering your question.

Sometimes I wonder whether you're a real person or some pre-programmed AI which spouts talking points.took you 2 sentences to insult and do so by playing that essential argument, the stupid card. You're slipping! 2 sentences.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I am a guy that wishes RLIMC would post a reasonable thought...The Bill of Rights and the constitution don't provide for socialized medicine. Consequently, it's unconstitutional. haha you haven't paid very close attention, it seems.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The Bill of Rights and the constitution don't provide for socialized medicine. Consequently, it's unconstitutional. haha you haven't paid very close attention, it seems.
The Constitution is intended to be a flexible document, not preserve the status quo of 1787. "Promote the general welfare" can certainly cover a single payer healthcare system

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You apparently don't know what socialism is.

then, pray tell, please tell us what Socialism is.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

then, pray tell, please tell us what Socialism is.
The hallmark of socialism is collective ownership of the means of production, something that has not remotely discussed as a policy by President Obama. High taxes for the rich is not socialism, and neither is ACA.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i'd rather see socialized medicine than what we have. if that makes me a socialist, than i guess i'm a socialist.OH, NO Karl, say it ain't so! you, a socialist! no way. I just never woulda guessed!! dayum!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The hallmark of socialism is collective ownership of the means of production, something that has not remotely discussed as a policy by President Obama. High taxes for the rich is not socialism, and neither is ACA.They're doing a bangup job with GM and now the entire health and health insurance assault. If you're saying ownership's not the statists' plan, then you're not paying attention.
or, somehow you think America's not paying attention, or is willing to roll over and let them have their way.

[yermom]

i know who is first on the list for reeducation.

[Midtowner]

that's cuz I and all conservatives, are s-t-u-p-i-d...or, at least crazy. and man, do we ever HATE!!!

Not all cons. Just you.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i know who is first on the list for reeducation.Have you signed up as an informant, yet? Better keep watch on the other so-called Obama sympathizers here, too. They may not be authentic, and actually might be American patriots in disguise. ya never know.

[Midtowner]

then, pray tell, please tell us what Socialism is.

Definition of SOCIALISM

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

[Midtowner]

They're doing a bangup job with GM and now the entire health and health insurance assault. If you're saying ownership's not the statists' plan, then you're not paying attention.
or, somehow you think America's not paying attention, or is willing to roll over and let them have their way.

26% of GM is owned by the Federal Reserve--a quasi private banking organization. Hardly "government motors."

With healthcare, we're requiring folks to buy private insurance or pay a fine. That's it. If private insurance wants to blow themselves up, they'll have only themselves to blame when we have to go to plan B.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Not all cons. Just you.2 very short sentences til the stupid card. Par.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

26% of GM is owned by the Federal Reserve--a quasi private banking organization. Hardly "government motors."

With healthcare, we're requiring folks to buy private insurance or pay a fine. That's it. If private insurance wants to blow themselves up, they'll have only themselves to blame when we have to go to plan B.you have GOT to be kidding. What a load! Do you think what you said here appears smart, or effectively deceiving?

[Sooner5030]

26% of GM is owned by the Federal Reserve--a quasi private banking organization. Hardly "government motors."

With healthcare, we're requiring folks to buy private insurance or pay a fine. That's it. If private insurance wants to blow themselves up, they'll have only themselves to blame when we have to go to plan B.

According to SIGTARP pg 41-43 of the pdf at http://www.sigtarp.gov/Quarterly%20Reports/July_25_2012_Report_to_Congress.pdf


On February 13, 2012, OMB issued the Administration’s fiscal year 2013
budget, which included a TARP lifetime cost estimate of $67.8 billion, based upon
figures from November 30, 2011.10 That was an increase from its estimate of $53.2
billion based on June 30, 2011 data.11 Much of the difference is due to a lower val-
ue for Treasury’s common stock holdings in AIG, GM, and Ally Financial compared
with November 2010. This estimate assumes that all $45.6 billion of obligated
funds for housing will be spent. It also assumes that PPIP will make a profit of $2
billion and CPP will make a profit of $6.7 billion, including principal repayments
and revenue from dividends, warrants, interest, and fees.


Did the Treasury sell its C/S since this report?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This thread is a load of unconstitutional cr*p. This election is about getting rid of the obtrusive Obear and his little helpers. 41 days til the cast off. Let's DO IT!!!

[Midtowner]

This thread is a load of unconstitutional cr*p. This election is about getting rid of the obtrusive Obear and his little helpers. 41 days til the cast off. Let's DO IT!!!

What specifically is unconstitutional?

[Skysooner]

What specifically is unconstitutional?


Socialism and Obama being President.....RLIMC (or I think I can answer what he would answer)

[Midtowner]

Socialism and Obama being President.....RLIMC (or I think I can answer what he would answer)

Funny stuff.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Definition of SOCIALISM

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

okay, the #1 and #3 defines the theory he lives by, he is truly The Socialist. Thanks for making my point.

[49r]

No your wisdom is special, and I'm sure it makes great sense to cast half a vote for Obama, especially since it is He who demands socialized medicine, after all. Since you don't want some socialism, but are OK with govt. control of our bodies, you can't give wholeheared support to Him. Half is probably about right for you.

For someone who is constantly whining about perceived slights against his own intelligence, and who is quick to go there, it's interesting to see you resort to the same tactic you constantly condemn.

[49r]

i know who is first on the list for reeducation.

HAHA!

[Midtowner]

okay, the #1 and #3 defines the theory he lives by, he is truly The Socialist. Thanks for making my point.

So back to the original question, how is the current healthcare reform, the ACA socialist?

You're just trying to change the subject.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Uhmm, nationalizing what 17% of the economy is not socialist? You are frickin' kidding me!

Then, by design, they force everyone into a single payer system as companies bail on employer provided insurance as the penalty is cheaper than the coverage? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

Then, death panels are set up to ration health care and determine who gets what procedures? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

Everything above will happen if TheSocialistcare becomes implemented. It is the embodiment of Socialism.

[Skysooner]

Uhmm, nationalizing what 17% of the economy is not socialist? You are frickin' kidding me!

Then, by design, they force everyone into a single payer system as companies bail on employer provided insurance as the penalty is cheaper than the coverage? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

Then, death panels are set up to ration health care and determine who gets what procedures? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

Everything above will happen if TheSocialistcare becomes implemented. It is the embodiment of Socialism.


BS on almost everything in this. The Polygamist would cause us to give up on our caffeine drinks and force us to wear funny undergarments. That is the embodiment of Mormonism.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

BS on almost everything in this. The Polygamist would cause us to give up on our caffeine drinks and force us to wear funny undergarments. That is the embodiment of Mormonism.

Prove it. What I say WILL HAPPEN! Wake The **** Up!!!

BTW, Romney would not do anything to convert you. If he does, people would just laugh at him. However, I would rather live in a town of Mormons than a town filled with people that think like The Socialist. The Mormon town would last a lot longer. The will have food, shelter and lots of guns. The Socialists filled town, they would either run away from danger or be killed when it came because they couldn't defend themselves.

[pphilfran]

TheHumanAlphabet seems to be short a few letters...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

For someone who is constantly whining about perceived slights against his own intelligence, and who is quick to go there, it's interesting to see you resort to the same tactic you constantly condemn.Have you(anyone) ever seen me honestly call Liberals smart, or that Liberalism/socialism/collectivism is a smart thing to believe(without being sarcastic)? Since Liberalism is against human nature it's not really all that smart.

[Skysooner]

Prove it. What I say WILL HAPPEN! Wake The **** Up!!!

BTW, Romney would not do anything to convert you. If he does, people would just laugh at him. However, I would rather live in a town of Mormons than a town filled with people that think like The Socialist. The Mormon town would last a lot longer. The will have food, shelter and lots of guns. The Socialists filled town, they would either run away from danger or be killed when it came because they couldn't defend themselves.


Since ACA nationalizes nothing, and everything else you talk about is complete supposition and can't happen without Congress, the President and the Supreme Court, I would say it is you who needs to wake the Eff up and prove it. You can't disprove something that hasn't happened yet.

The Mormon part is simply to point out how stupid your Socialist comment is. You don't understand socialism, but I knew that from your posts on this board.

[hawaii 5-0]

The sky will surely fall. Everyone run for cover.

Get you offshore bank accounts and car roof pet carriers while they still last.

Oh, and your dancing horses.


5-0

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Since ACA nationalizes nothing, and everything else you talk about is complete supposition and can't happen without Congress, the President and the Supreme Court, I would say it is you who needs to wake the Eff up and prove it. You can't disprove something that hasn't happened yet.

The Mormon part is simply to point out how stupid your Socialist comment is. You don't understand socialism, but I knew that from your posts on this board.

What don't I understand about Socialism? Europe is socialist for the most part, France's 75% tax rate is socialism. What don't I understand? You are the poor person who doesn't see their rights being taken away in favor of government rule by The Socialist.

[rock on sooner]

What don't I understand about Socialism? Europe is socialist for the most part, France's 75% tax rate is socialism. What don't I understand? You are the poor person who doesn't see their rights being taken away in favor of government rule by The Socialist.

By your definition of a 75% tax rate being socialism then I guess the
USA was socialist in the 50's when the rate was 90%. Correct?

[rock on sooner]

By your definition of a 75% tax rate being socialism then I guess the
USA was socialist in the 50's when the rate was 90%. Correct?

Oops, my bad it was 92% in '52 and '53, then 91% til 1962. Dayum,
I lived in a Socialist country for the first 17 years of my life! THA says so!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So please pray tell what is socialism to you? And i can guarantee your folks never paid the confiscatory taxes you mentioned. I doubt many did.

I surely would call FDRs ideas socialistic in many ways.

You dont think it will end bad, so what do you think the end game is after another 4 years of The Socialist?

[rock on sooner]

So please pray tell what is socialism to you? And i can guarantee your folks never paid the confiscatory taxes you mentioned. I doubt many did.

I surely would call FDRs ideas socialistic in many ways.

You dont think it will end bad, so what do you think the end game is after another 4 years of The Socialist?

You have a hard time with getting your argument called as BS, doncha ya?
Yup, my folks weren't even close to the top end. And, they weren't together
when FDR was in office. Do you deny that what FDR did was in the country's
best interest? If you do, then you're on the wrong side of history, But, that doesn't
mean jack to you, does it? If the facts don't fit your argument, then just like Rush,
the real one, you dismiss them. Sorry, but you folks on the right, while you are
passionate about your beliefs, got some misguided ideas, and, I firmly believe
that both sides have to come together, and have written MANY times on this
board for just that. All that comes back to me is snarky remarks, RW spin and
generally BS stuff, with NO sensible compromise.

My thoughts here are that you all deserve what you espouse, clearly, because
you REFUSE to look or listen to any other ideas or proposals.. The true sadness
is that so many of you lack the willingness to step outside your really closed-
in cage, no matter what. As I've said many times before, I'll not change one
single mind of the RWers, but that doesn't mean that I won't keep trying.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The socialist has nothing I want. I don't buy his Chicago thug crap.

[Midtowner]

Uhmm, nationalizing what 17% of the economy is not socialist? You are frickin' kidding me!

Nothing has been socialized. Go ask a Venezuelan what socializing the economy means. They could tell you.


Then, by design, they force everyone into a single payer system as companies bail on employer provided insurance as the penalty is cheaper than the coverage? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

I only assume this will happen, because U.S. employers being forced to pay for healthcare of their employees when they're competing with other countries who do have socialized medicine actually does kill jobs. If this happened, it wouldn't be an entirely bad thing.


Then, death panels are set up to ration health care and determine who gets what procedures? Again, You are frickin' kidding me!

No, you fail definitionally. Also, the whole Sarah Palin "death panel" concept was named the 2009 Politifcacts Lie of the Year, one of FactCheck's "whoppers," and the most outrageous term by the American Dialect Society. The fact is the committee you describe was removed from the 2010 Senate Bill and was not included in the APA. Again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you at least find out what the ACA is before railing against it. These slips make you look like a moron.


Everything above will happen if TheSocialistcare becomes implemented. It is the embodiment of Socialism.

You still haven't shown how it's socialist.

[sappstuf]

Nothing has been socialized. Go ask a Venezuelan what socializing the economy means. They could tell you.



I only assume this will happen, because U.S. employers being forced to pay for healthcare of their employees when they're competing with other countries who do have socialized medicine actually does kill jobs. If this happened, it wouldn't be an entirely bad thing.



No, you fail definitionally. Also, the whole Sarah Palin "death panel" concept was named the 2009 Politifcacts Lie of the Year, one of FactCheck's "whoppers," and the most outrageous term by the American Dialect Society. The fact is the committee you describe was removed from the 2010 Senate Bill and was not included in the APA. Again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you at least find out what the ACA is before railing against it. These slips make you look like a moron.



You still haven't shown how it's socialist.

Sarah Palin made her original comment on August 7th 2009 and followed up on August the 12th. The Senate Finance Committee voted to take out that section of the bill on August 13th... How did Sarah Palin know that they would take it out of the bill a week later or did her comments make them? They go back and spin history and try to make it sound like she made the comments after it had been removed from the bill. Classic.. Talk about spin.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/in-midst-of-firestorm-over-death-panels-senate-finance-committee-to-eschew-end-of-life-counseling.php

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=113851103434

[LiveLaughLove]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.xml
seems Palin is smarter than all of you. This op/ed is written by Steve Ratner, he was obamas car czar. A good friend of dear leader.

He says death panels are not only necessary but inevitable. But you all have known that for a long time. But your dishonesty and desire to score political points outweigh your desire for truth.

congratulations, you lefties on here might make it as politicians.

Oh yeah, Paul Krugman on ABC said health care rationing, death panels, for those in their last days of life are inevitable also. No outcry about these two guys being idiots, huh.

Seems Mrs. Palin was ahead of the curve and a multitude of apologies are owed. But I won't hold my breath waiting for liars to retract what they were so eager to lie about in the first place.

[Skysooner]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.xml
seems Palin is smarter than all of you. This op/ed is written by Steve Ratner, he was obamas car czar. A good friend of dear leader.

He says death panels are not only necessary but inevitable. But you all have known that for a long time. But your dishonesty and desire to score political points outweigh your desire for truth.

congratulations, you lefties on here might make it as politicians.

Oh yeah, Paul Krugman on ABC said health care rationing, death panels, for those in their last days of life are inevitable also. No outcry about these two guys being idiots, huh.

Seems Mrs. Palin was ahead of the curve and a multitude of apologies are owed. But I won't hold my breath waiting for liars to retract what they were so eager to lie about in the first place.

Sarah is not smart. She is shrewd. She parlayed the conservative's crowd hatred of Obama into mega-millions for herself and her family. I might call her street smart, but she is far from bright.

I also agree that while I don't like the term death panels there might have to be rationing at some point unless you are mega-rich. I hope people realize the high percentage of bankruptcies in this country which are caused by health care emergencies. It is much higher than other countries. That says something to me right there.

[LiveLaughLove]

Sarah is not smart. She is shrewd. She parlayed the conservative's crowd hatred of Obama into mega-millions for herself and her family. I might call her street smart, but she is far from bright.

I also agree that while I don't like the term death panels there might have to be rationing at some point unless you are mega-rich. I hope people realize the high percentage of bankruptcies in this country which are caused by health care emergencies. It is much higher than other countries. That says something to me right there.
Well of course. No credit to her for being right. Now, naturally, well it was inevitable that we will have to "ration" care. Silly us.

And all of this time, I thought I remembered everyone screaming that she was just being a demagogue and didn't know the facts.

She called it a death panel because that's what it will be. A panel that decides what care someone gets that will prolong their life or not. I'm betting the panels family and the liberal elites will make sure their family members get the utmost attention, while the rest of us can eat cake.

But that's always the way with liberal's and their ideas. They make the rules, we live (and die) by them.

[yermom]

just because she may have understood one concept, used a sensationalist name to describe it, that may or may not have even been come up with by her does not make her smart

when "what do you read?" is a "tough question meant to embarrass her" you aren't bright.

[Midtowner]

She called it a death panel because that's what it will be. A panel that decides what care someone gets that will prolong their life or not. I'm betting the panels family and the liberal elites will make sure their family members get the utmost attention, while the rest of us can eat cake.

That's not what it was at all. Again, you fail definitionally. Go look it up and get back to us. The committees as proposed would decide broad issues as to what insurance is required to cover and not cover. I'm sure this would lead to the creation of a brand new insurance you could buy for any sort of luxury care.

[sappstuf]

That's not what it was at all. Again, you fail definitionally. Go look it up and get back to us. The committees as proposed would decide broad issues as to what insurance is required to cover and not cover. I'm sure this would lead to the creation of a brand new insurance you could buy for any sort of luxury care.

It will lead to the creation of all kinds of new things...

The simplicity that is Obamacare!

http://mainstreet-ct.com/marl/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/obamacare-complexity.jpg

[soonerhubs]

Sky your childish post disappoints.

[Skysooner]

Sky your childish post disappoints.

Childish? Not sure what you mean exactly. Palin didn't have great school grades nor did she govern with any sort of what I call intelligence. She was using the system to benefit her and her family. Obviously she became governor and that takes intelligence of some sort and certainly craftiness which I do not possess. I could never be a politician for lack of that part of my personality. What she expressed about death panels was slanted to appeal to a certain part of the electorate, and she has continued to take advantage of that just as so many do when they get fame. She has made a fortune for her family. What I'm saying is that she isn't a super-intellectual, but she took advantage of every opportunity handed to her. There is nothing wrong with that.

LLL-I'm strictly expressing reality. There is a shortage of healthcare in this country, and high-end health care costs money. Money is what rations it to a certain extent. Many people can't afford the kind of treatment that wealthy people can. If Obamacare did turn into a single payer system there is still a lack of health care in this country. That is likely to be a committee, etc. except for those people that can afford to go outside the system. We already have "death panels" in this country but that is simply the inability of people to pay for the high-end health care that might prolong their life. Palin is not dumb. The fact is that everything in this country is dominated by supply and demand (churches, healthcare, car sales, homes, etc.). If you are a student of history at all then what she said isn't even that hard to figure out.

Hubs-If you are referring to the bankruptcies caused by health care in this country versus others that is a matter of record and has been a fact for several decades now at least.

[soonerhubs]

Childish? Not sure what you mean exactly. Palin didn't have great school grades nor did she govern with any sort of what I call intelligence. She was using the system to benefit her and her family. Obviously she became governor and that takes intelligence of some sort and certainly craftiness which I do not possess. I could never be a politician for lack of that part of my personality. What she expressed about death panels was slanted to appeal to a certain part of the electorate, and she has continued to take advantage of that just as so many do when they get fame. She has made a fortune for her family. What I'm saying is that she isn't a super-intellectual, but she took advantage of every opportunity handed to her. There is nothing wrong with that.

LLL-I'm strictly expressing reality. There is a shortage of healthcare in this country, and high-end health care costs money. Money is what rations it to a certain extent. Many people can't afford the kind of treatment that wealthy people can. If Obamacare did turn into a single payer system there is still a lack of health care in this country. That is likely to be a committee, etc. except for those people that can afford to go outside the system. We already have "death panels" in this country but that is simply the inability of people to pay for the high-end health care that might prolong their life. Palin is not dumb. The fact is that everything in this country is dominated by supply and demand (churches, healthcare, car sales, homes, etc.). If you are a student of history at all then what she said isn't even that hard to figure out.

Hubs-If you are referring to the bankruptcies caused by health care in this country versus others that is a matter of record and has been a fact for several decades now at least.

Your rude comments about the "polygamist" and caffeine were extremely immature and disappointing.

[Skysooner]

They were meant to be more tongue in cheek than anything else. I have lots of Mormon friends especially in Colorado. It was more directed at the socialist and birther crowd that can't get beyond rhetoric. But yes they were childish.

[soonerhubs]

I didn't mean to get so upset. I'm sorry for that. I just find it frustrating when folks say we have more than one wife and can't drink Dr. Pepper or Mt. Dew. I "need" my pops. :D

[Skysooner]

You have a right to be upset. Sorry it wasn't really meant to be disrespectful just ironic. I think Romney would be a good President. Also while I am no longer religious I think the tenets espoused by Mormonism are well intentioned and respectable.

[soonerhubs]

You have a right to be upset. Sorry it wasn't really meant to be disrespectful just ironic. I think Romney would be a good President. Also while I am no longer religious I think the tenets espoused by Mormonism are well intentioned and respectable.

No worries. I appreciate your candor and posts.