Is the main problem our OC?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We will be in for a LONG season if our offense doesn't improve, from QB play, OL blocking, and play calling. It's ultimately on Bob Stoops, I know. He has never made major coaching changes, esp mid-season, without a coach getting another job first. What do you guys thing could/should be done?

[Breadburner]

Did the OC turn the ball over....???

[SoonerLB]

The OC can't make plays, but he could danged sure get them called in a timely manner! I for one am pretty fed up with this crap of the offense staring at the sideline trying to get a play and then almost being in a panic to get it run on time. But I'm with you Rush, QB play and OL blocking are not what they should be. And if that is the kind of play that comes from two weeks of preparation, this could be a long, sad season!

[BoulderSooner79]

Sometimes I wonder if the OC (or DC) job is too much for some guys and they can't do that job and their position coaching job well. Josh has been OC for 2 seasons and the QB play has not improved in those 2 seasons. And this is after LJ seemed to "turn the corner" in '10.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think that part of the problem of QB development not happening is josh being OC.. I think it pretty much killed it..

[PLaw]

I think that part of the problem of QB development not happening is josh being OC.. I think it pretty much killed it..

Landry was a much better QB with Wilson at the helm. It's becoming increasingly clear that the beloved Josh is probably not ready at this point for calling the plays. Seriously, a shuffle pass when your backed up to your own endzone? Millard was on the field, just hand him the ball. Another sign of OC immaturity is Josh trying to make players fit his system rather than adapting the system to fit the talent. This team is built for a pro-style attack, but the only time we see the QB under center is when we go to the victory formation.

As another poster noted, this business of co-coordinators means that you don't have one capable of the job.

Bummer.

[CU Sooner]

I have been thinking about this since opening day and now I am sure of it, We will not be a championship caliber team again until our qb touches the centers butt at least 40-50% of the time. The spread makes you soft and that is what we are on offense. That lies at Josh's feet, we do not need a leach offense, never thought I would say it but I would love to have Long back.

[SoonerMarkVA]

I think that part of the problem of QB development not happening is josh being OC.. I think it pretty much killed it..

I'm not sure what angle you're taking here, but I agree with the conclusion. Josh should never have gone to the booth. When he's been on the sideline to work directly with the QBs mid-game, we've been much, much better at QB than the times when he wasn't on the sideline.

Send Norvell to the booth; get Heupel back on the sideline.

[GameWarden]

I'm not sure about Josh but I am sure that he has asked Landry to do more and Jones is over-whelmed by it. He's a fifth year senior. He executed like a red-shirt freshman??

[FaninAma]

Josh didn't over throw, under throw , throw behind receivers, panic in the pocket, and miss finding open receivers all night long.

The mental accumen for the game is extremely important and Landry doesn't have it.

Josh can be blamed for not understanding Landry does not have a good grasp of the mental aspect of the game and probably never will. Maybe he will get drafted and have a coach who is able to get the lightbulb to click on but I somehow don't think it will happen.

[EatLeadCommie]

Josh has tried to put more focus on the running game since he became OC, and with mixed results. He did NOT call a bad game yesterday. We moved the ball fine. The problem was that Landry was horrible. The problem since Broyles went down last year has been that Landry has been horrible. This is not on Josh.

That is not to say we don't have an identity crisis on offense. Our hurry-up is sometimes a hurry-up and sometimes not. This, some of you may recall, dates back to the Florida game. We also continue to have a soft offensive line and have ever since Patton became our OL coach.

Josh is the least of our problems on offense right now.

[FaninAma]

Eatlead, last year before Broyles was hurt they had a pre-game video tribute that showed every one of Broyles' catches. After watching for a while a definit pattern emerged. Most of the passes he caught were shorter than 10 yards and a lot of the yards he made were YAC. That is Landry's comfort zone. Opposing teams know this. They sell out to stop those short passes and without a magician at getting open like Broyles was Landry is an average QB, to say the least.

OU essentially runs a flag football offense.....a simplified one. They use no misdirection or counters. It is a simple
offense, really and I suspect it is simple because our coaches don't trust our players to grasp a more complicated offense.

We just line up and try to out-athlete our opponents and when we face a team with even close to the level of athleticism that we have we struggle.

[achiro]

Josh didn't over throw, under throw , throw behind receivers, panic in the pocket, and miss finding open receivers all night long.

The mental accument for the game is extremely important and Landry doesn't have it.

Josh can be blamed for not understanding Landry does not have a good grasp of the mental aspect of the game and probably never will. Maybe he will get drafted and have a coach who is able to get the lightbulb to click on but I somehow don't think it will happen.
This has been Landry Jones from the start. The difference with Broyles was that he could reach behind him catch the ball and not lose stride. He's never been good at finding open guys when he's under pressure(mental or physical pressure). He's never been a guy that gave me confidence that he could be the guy when a last minute for the win drive was needed.

Josh has tried to put more focus on the running game since he became OC, and with mixed results. He did NOT call a bad game yesterday. We moved the ball fine. The problem was that Landry was horrible. The problem since Broyles went down last year has been that Landry has been horrible. This is not on Josh.

That is not to say we don't have an identity crisis on offense. Our hurry-up is sometimes a hurry-up and sometimes not. This, some of you may recall, dates back to the Florida game. We also continue to have a soft offensive line and have ever since Patton became our OL coach.

Josh is the least of our problems on offense right now.
I agree the stupid turnovers cost us.

[achiro]

FaninAma, you've got it figured out. You will also notice very few of those catches are made in stride.

[SoonerorLater]

I have been thinking about this since opening day and now I am sure of it, We will not be a championship caliber team again until our qb touches the centers butt at least 40-50% of the time. The spread makes you soft and that is what we are on offense. That lies at Josh's feet, we do not need a leach offense, never thought I would say it but I would love to have Long back.

I couldn't agree more. The tragic thing is we could easily do this and have the talent to do so. Put in Bell, Millard, and Williams and a few more guys like Shepard who want to really play some football and just tee off. It should be clear this team is heading in the wrong direction. If we don't make some changes we are looking at around a 7-5 year or worse.

[Breadburner]

I would rather pay now than later.....Lets turn it over to Bell.....!!!

[GameWarden]

Eatlead, last year before Broyles was hurt they had a pre-game video tribute that showed every one of Broyles' catches. After watching for a while a definit pattern emerged. Most of the passes he caught were shorter than 10 yards and a lot of the yards he made were YAC. That is Landry's comfort zone. Opposing teams know this. They sell out to stop those short passes and without a magician at getting open like Broyles was Landry is an average QB, to say the least.

OU essentially runs a flag football offense.....a simplified one. They use no misdirection or counters. It is a simple
offense, really and I suspect it is simple because our coaches don't trust our players to grasp a more complicated offense.



We just line up and try to out-athlete our opponents and when we face a team with even close to the level of athleticism that we have we struggle.

What is amazing is the record that Wilson was able to amass with this offense. And yes opposing defenses knew it was coming but with OU's personell and Wilson's play calling it was hard to stop. And Landry could run it even as a red shirt freshman.

[ELP Sooner]

Maybe the coaches trust Landry too much? What I mean is that it seems clear that Landry was better when the offensive coaches cut the field in half and gave him 2 reads and if its not there to throw it away. Maybe we need to go back to that?

[LawtonBoy74]

The main problem is the players. I was out last night in Norman and seen many of the players out partying it up after the loss, and not appearing the bit upset that they just lost a football game. I understand that most of the young men are in fact young men, and that college life is a fun time to party and live free and wild. But last night it appeared as if they were more worried about getting to a post game party then giving it their all to OU football. If they were really serious about winning they would leave the partying to the offseason or to post game victories. FYI- Many of the players out partying were starters... just saying

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And I said it once and I'll say it again.

The offensive line played balls out last night. This unit has come together better than you could have expected with the loss of Ben Habern. To hang any responsibility on their play is simply stupid and COMPLETELY ignorant of what happened to our boys offensively.

I'd even be as bold to say that the offensive line play is already leaps and bounds beyond last year's effort. The fact remains you can only hold a pass block for so long. Even the best of the best can only stick pass pro so long.

[GameWarden]

And I said it once and I'll say it again.

The offensive line played balls out last night. This unit has come together better than you could have expected with the loss of Ben Habern. To hang any responsibility on their play is simply stupid and COMPLETELY ignorant of what happened to our boys offensively.

I'd even be as bold to say that the offensive line play is already leaps and bounds beyond last year's effort. The fact remains you can only hold a pass block for so long. Even the best of the best can only stick pass pro so long.

I think they did well considering they have lost two starters

[EatLeadCommie]

Eatlead, last year before Broyles was hurt they had a pre-game video tribute that showed every one of Broyles' catches. After watching for a while a definit pattern emerged. Most of the passes he caught were shorter than 10 yards and a lot of the yards he made were YAC. That is Landry's comfort zone. Opposing teams know this. They sell out to stop those short passes and without a magician at getting open like Broyles was Landry is an average QB, to say the least.

When LJ was amassing a lot of those big yardage games, I noticed that as well-- particularly during his first two seasons. It was pass to Broyles and enjoy the YAC, then have everybody on message boards praise your numbers and hopefully not realize that Broyles was responsible so many of those yards and that the end result was an over-reliance on Broyles. It wasn't just that Broyles was a go-to guy. It was that him being a go-to guy made Landry a lazy QB and disguised that his up-side ceiling had already been hit..

[Texas Golfer]

Landry was a much better QB with Wilson at the helm. It's becoming increasingly clear that the beloved Josh is probably not ready at this point for calling the plays. Seriously, a shuffle pass when your backed up to your own endzone? Millard was on the field, just hand him the ball. Another sign of OC immaturity is Josh trying to make players fit his system rather than adapting the system to fit the talent. This team is built for a pro-style attack, but the only time we see the QB under center is when we go to the victory formation.

As another poster noted, this business of co-coordinators means that you don't have one capable of the job.

Bummer.

Not only were the QBs better under Wilson, we, as a team, set NCAA scoring and plays from scrimmage records. We wore out defenders by halftime. Now, we keep our opponents in the game until the end to set ourselves up for a mistake that could cost us the wins. We slowed our game so much that, not only do we not run but about 2/3 of the plays we once did, but we have to rush to get plays off which causes mistakes and penalties. I like Josh but he's no Kevin.

[Texas Golfer]

And I said it once and I'll say it again.

The offensive line played balls out last night. This unit has come together better than you could have expected with the loss of Ben Habern. To hang any responsibility on their play is simply stupid and COMPLETELY ignorant of what happened to our boys offensively.

I'd even be as bold to say that the offensive line play is already leaps and bounds beyond last year's effort. The fact remains you can only hold a pass block for so long. Even the best of the best can only stick pass pro so long.

The OL played well but I can't say the same for the DL. We knew they were going to run and there were holes all night and poor tackling. Also, we NEVER got to Klein in our pass rushes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Josh didn't over throw, under throw , throw behind receivers, panic in the pocket, and miss finding open receivers all night long.

The mental accumen for the game is extremely important and Landry doesn't have it.

Josh can be blamed for not understanding Landry does not have a good grasp of the mental aspect of the game and probably never will. Maybe he will get drafted and have a coach who is able to get the lightbulb to click on but I somehow don't think it will happen.Pretty much what I'm thinking, about QB play, anyway.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Eatlead, last year before Broyles was hurt they had a pre-game video tribute that showed every one of Broyles' catches. After watching for a while a definit pattern emerged. Most of the passes he caught were shorter than 10 yards and a lot of the yards he made were YAC. That is Landry's comfort zone. Opposing teams know this. They sell out to stop those short passes and without a magician at getting open like Broyles was Landry is an average QB, to say the least.

OU essentially runs a flag football offense.....a simplified one. They use no misdirection or counters. It is a simple
offense, really and I suspect it is simple because our coaches don't trust our players to grasp a more complicated offense.

We just line up and try to out-athlete our opponents and when we face a team with even close to the level of athleticism that we have we struggle.Seems that way. like I said in the opening post, it appears we have many issues on offense.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I would rather pay now than later.....Lets turn it over to Bell.....!!!I have thought this since last year. I wasn't overjoyed when Landry said he wanted to return for his senior year.

[Okie35]

YES.. also in this spread we can't have an immobile QB that's a fact. I can't wait until Bell or Thompson starts. Whatever happened to the power-I? When will Millard actually be set up as a fullback again? I hate this dumb spread. Kevin Wilson at least used to mix it up. When will we utilize the TE's? What the hell is this team running? I'm mad I actually wasted my time and money to go to the game. The defense besides that long 3rd down actually played well enough for us to win.

[TXBOOMER]

Games are won and lost in the trenches. HC needs to be a btter job recruiting lineman and developing them once they are here. HC needs to do a better job having players prepared. Timeouts are Fing rediculous. HC needs to do a better job hiring assistants OC DC etc. HC needs to do a better job approving offensive and defensive schemes etc. HC needs to do a better job with special teams. Playing safe ob punts so the opposition can get a clean punt every time is ridiculous. They rushed once last night and damn near blocked it. Overall HC needs to do a better job.

[Okie35]

Eatlead, last year before Broyles was hurt they had a pre-game video tribute that showed every one of Broyles' catches. After watching for a while a definit pattern emerged. Most of the passes he caught were shorter than 10 yards and a lot of the yards he made were YAC. That is Landry's comfort zone. Opposing teams know this. They sell out to stop those short passes and without a magician at getting open like Broyles was Landry is an average QB, to say the least.

OU essentially runs a flag football offense.....a simplified one. They use no misdirection or counters. It is a simple
offense, really and I suspect it is simple because our coaches don't trust our players to grasp a more complicated offense.

We just line up and try to out-athlete our opponents and when we face a team with even close to the level of athleticism that we have we struggle.

Our offense the past 6 years+
have been based on receivers getting yac

[yankee]

Not sure whether it's the OL's fault or the RB's fault, but our run game was non-existent last night. Why the hell doesn't Roy Finch play more? Ran the ball one time for about 12 yards and made it happen with his shiftiness and speed. What happened to Trey Millard touching the ball 10+ times a game like we were told ahead of the season? Finch + Millard not getting enough touches frustrates me more than just about anything else. Also, failure to consistently run block. Year in and year out...

[soonerlaw]

What's Mangino doing these days?

[goingoneight]

Those who ripped Kevin Wilson are figuring out what happens when you lose maybe your best OC in school history. I don't know if Josh and Jay are to blame... but clearly this Nevada pistol stuff is a failed experiment.

[marfacowboy]

The problems are so numerous I don't know where to start. Many have been said already, but I don't like our offensive scheme right now. I think we have serious personnel problems. We don't have a big, powerful back that can just pound people. Our LB's are too small and too slow. Our defensive linemen aren't getting off blocks and blowing up plays. The offense is completely out of sync, and I think there's a big leadership issue.
We're just not very good, but you're not going to be good every year. At least we aren't Arkansas.

[SoonerorLater]

Those who ripped Kevin Wilson are figuring out what happens when you lose maybe your best OC in school history. I don't know if Josh and Jay are to blame... but clearly this Nevada pistol stuff is a failed experiment.

Kevin Wilson should have been ripped. Sam Bradford had a lot to do with his perceived success as OC. He was able to coax more from Landry Jones than Heupel however. Any offense that doesn't allow for smash-mouth running plays is flawed from the start. The major problem with the Kevin Wilson type offense is that with the right personnel you can roll up so many yards it is hard to refute your success. What i would suggest is that Kevin Wilson's success is largely due to the caliber of talent he coached. If he was such a coaching genius Indiana wouldn't have gone 1-11 last year

[OUTrumpet]

So I finally got to go to a game for the first time in 2 years and this was my luck. I slept on it last night, took a nap today, and re-watched some parts of the game this evening.

First: KSU's gameplan:
KSU set their defense to completely take away the deep passing game, playing primarily cover 4 and cover 3 with a 5/6 man blitz most of the night. 3rd and long was a guaranteed cover 4. Their sole mindset was to take away the deep passing game and make us work down the field 3-6 yards down the field at a time and to also do anything they could to make us drive as much as possible. They wanted the game shortened both by keeping hold of the ball and letting the clock run and also to try to make us take long time sustaining drives as well by only giving up short-medium range plays on the sidelines/across the middle and doing everything they could to enforce that. I just work in high school and could tell exactly what they were doing and also the fact that we didn’t change what we were doing at halftime.

Failure #1
Our offense had trouble getting the play in. This is a MAJOR issue. We are at home and this should be NO issue whatsoever. We had multiple instances all night. All 3 turnovers and problems with the snap immediately as the playclock was less than 5. Most of the time Landry and even on one occasion Bell would be running the protection call, get immediately set, and then we would snap the ball. The missed TD on our first drive occurred with the playclock less than 5, the interception, the fumble for a td, all of them came when WE COULD NOT GET THE PLAY CALLED until right before the snap. Even the stadium seemed to pick up on this. This timing issue will destroy this offense more often than not.

I think this problem is causing our center to rush the snap. We had several issues of this throughout the evening. Defenses are harder to read without the help of a fake cadence. Jones seemed uneasy with the communication level all night (especially with communicating the protection with the offensive line) except when we would hit hurry up and either he was allowed to call the plays or the plays were already ready on the sideline. The utter failure of the coaching staff to be decisive on attacking is mind-blowing. We also tip our hand and allow the defenses to set and figure out what we are doing while we sit in formation waiting for the call. I don’t think we could go to a huddle with the current coaching staff though. We wouldn’t be able to get to the LOS, get set, and snap the ball if we can’t get the play in until 5-9 seconds are left on the playclock!

Failure #2
Our offensive staff has a problem with impatience. We frequently wanted to throw the ball down the field, leading to tight, contested balls. We would move the chains multiple times, take a shot down field, run the ball up the middle, and then take another shot down the field during 3rd and long. And then our drive would be over and we would punt.

Failure #3
Our offense is also becoming predictable with our hurry up. If we go into quick strike mode, it is one of two plays, both easily identifiable by 1 player -- the halfback. It is either 4 verticals looking to get 1 receiver to beat the coverage or for a sprint draw. Watch the running back and you can easily identify the play.

Conclusion:
Overall – I think we are in a tough situation. I love Heupal, but I think he is in no way ready to be an OC at a major D1 program, especially calling plays and trying to communicate them in in a timely manner. We won’t be able to bring in another play-caller without a messy divorce from someone that helped resurrect the program. Until he was made OC our qbs made huge strides and improvement under him. I can’t tell yet if Jones’ ceiling is based on him or on Heupal. I suspect that Heupal is having trouble handling the overall direction of the offense while continuing to give the quarterbacks the attention they deserve. We will find out soon enough 2 years from now with Bell. I think we’re in a situation where we are stuck for the long-haul while we wait on Heupal to mature as a coach.

[OU_Sooners75]

Hate to say this, but its a Bob Stoops problem.

He has left his subordinates with too much power. He has put in place a guy that is far from ready to do the job. He has hired friends, family, and friends of friends instead of hiring the best available coach.

This really isn't. .josh's fault, nor Landry's so much as Bob Stoops.

Your program is only as good as the coaches.


That said...

James Patton should never have been put on staff. He was hired because Stoops hired K Wilson. He was hired so that K Wilson would have help coaching the OL because Wilson was the OC. It worked well because Wilson was the OL coach, but could go help elsewhere because he had a position assistant.

Bruce Kittle. Man what a baffling hire. His highest form as a coach was a Jr high head coach. And a few years as a assistant high school coach. He has also worked as a lawyer, and even a preacher. He played at Iowa with Stoops. So he knows what it takes. But never had any form of recruiting.

BJW needs to retire and take an internal job like Merv Johnson.

Jackie Shipp. Love this guy, be he hasn't been doing very goo here lately.

The last four coaches named are our line coaches. First two OL, last two DL.

Finally I think Josh needs to two a few things:
1. Leave the booth and get on the sidelines.
2. Get rid of the no huddle and spread offense. Go back to a prostyle offense that will better utilize our strengths and hide our weaknesses.
3. Work better with the QBs so they fill more comfortable during the games. This goes along with #1, but also needs to be done at practice.

If 1 doesn't happen. Then Stoops needs to restructure his coaching staff.

He needs to do away with a two coach system on the lines. He needs to fire all four of them or encourage them to seek other job opportunities. Then hire in some new faces and better recruiters for the lines. Then he can hire a dedicated QB coach and special teams coach. Or put Josh at QB coach and hire a top notch OC.

[cyclonesooner]

Great points, FaninAma. So tired of this boring, sunday afternoon flag football offense! We can bash Mack Brown, but at least he figured it out that the spread, finesse, sissy offtense is not going to get the job done. It is pathetic.

[SoonerLB]

I was no fan of KW either, and as SoonerorLater stated, Sam Bradford made those days despite KW. I see part of the problem is still with us though, so I resurrect this from the KW days, seems it still is a problem!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/barn9/Meerkatoffensewaits.jpg

[stoopified]

no