I want to know why we can't touch their QB

[JLEW1818]

Why?

[Boomer.....]

Bc our D-line was one of the weaknesses of this team.

[JLEW1818]

Texas will out rush us. Therefore win

[Boomer.....]

Well they can't out pass us.

[JLEW1818]

Really?

[Boomer.....]

Yeah, really.

[JLEW1818]

Pass rush is a ****ing joke.

[radio]

Its called CONTAINMENT.

[winout]

Couple weeks ago Sabanball told us our LOS was bad on both sides. I don't think our offense is so bad, Landry had time to throw. Opened a few holes for backs to get through.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Pass rush is a ****ing joke.

What pass rush? We're we watching the same game? LOL

[VA Sooner]

Our tackles were OK... they just aren't stellar with losing The Hammer and Frank Alexander to the pros. No pass rush... King is our best guy there and pretty much the only one. McFarland has been pretty good but not unworldly like Gerald McCoy.

I miss those guys.

[agoo758]

I've seen high school kickers who are bigger than our linemen.

[OUcharlie]

Pass rush is a joke ?? Sorry but we don't know what that means !!

[Breadburner]

Turnovers..Its simple.....

[Tulsa_Fireman]

ANSWER: He's MC Hammer?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Our tackles were OK... they just aren't stellar with losing The Hammer and Frank Alexander to the pros. No pass rush... King is our best guy there and pretty much the only one. McFarland has been pretty good but not unworldly like Gerald McCoy.

I miss those guys.

I personally think our des can rush the passer pretty well. Our issue is if we cut them loose who is going to stop the run? There was a time when they were only required to funnel the run to the linebackers but now if they don't make the play it's up to a safety. I'll be surprised if we finish the season with 1 healthy safety at the current rate they are having to tackle untouched running backs 5 yards deep.

[GottaHavePride]

Come to think of it, most of our tackles *are* being made by the line or DBs. Back around 2000, probably 60-70% of our tackles were being made by Rocky Calmus, Torrance Marshall, and Roy Williams (I'm counting him as essentially an extra LB floating in the secondary).

[GameWarden]

We didn't get much pressure from the D-line when they rushed 4. Once again LBers failed to shed blocks.
Turnovers were the obvious cause for the loss but its still a team sport.

As I recall we had another pretty good DE named Grissom who is now playing TE due to all the players that quit or were kicked off the team last year.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Come to think of it, most of our tackles *are* being made by the line or DBs. Back around 2000, probably 60-70% of our tackles were being made by Rocky Calmus, Torrance Marshall, and Roy Williams (I'm counting him as essentially an extra LB floating in the secondary).

I'm not sure who is doing stats, but when I saw that Wort had 5 unassisted tackles and 7 assisted before the game I had to laugh (since hopping on the pile shouldn't net you an assist). After the game, he tacked on another 1 solo and 3 assists to keep him near the top to somehow come up with 5U/11A (I have never understood our week to week stats). To come out of a game where there were 44 rushing attempts with 4 tackles as a linebacker is embarrassing. Honestly, I thought the person who did pretty well in the game was Corey Nelson who had about 1/3 the snaps and registered 3S and 1 A.

Jefferson,Tony - 11 UA/14A - 25
Harris,Javon - 14UA/10A - 24
Wort,Tom - 5UA/11A - 16
Colvin,Aaron - 7UA/7A - 14
Ndulae/Nelson/Washington/Hurst/McFarland with all around 11 total

[8timechamps]

Come to think of it, most of our tackles *are* being made by the line or DBs. Back around 2000, probably 60-70% of our tackles were being made by Rocky Calmus, Torrance Marshall, and Roy Williams (I'm counting him as essentially an extra LB floating in the secondary).

I wonder if this will return with Mike's defensive philosophy? Honestly, we're not strong at LB this year. I love Wort's fiery attitude, and he's fast, he's just not a Calmus, Lehman, etc. Corey Nelson is a solid guy (although I think he's a little undersized).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I wonder if this will return with Mike's defensive philosophy? Honestly, we're not strong at LB this year. I love Wort's fiery attitude, and he's fast, he's just not a Calmus, Lehman, etc. Corey Nelson is a solid guy (although I think he's a little undersized).

I'd argue that Russell Dennison was a better OU linebacker than Wort. Nelson is one of those guys who looks great in practice, but it doesn't translate into games (though he had a much better game than normal against kstate). All it takes is watching any other big 12 team play to realize that their linebackers and DTs are much, much, much better than ours. When you've been passed by Iowa State in terms of linebacker play, you have a problem.

Here is a nice little exercise for you while we play - press pause on a tackle and see who is around the ballcarrier. Now, if you have one, pop in a 2002 or heck 2005 tape (where our D wasn't great) and do the same. We seem to be missing 2-3 defenders now...

[PLaw]

Why?

Uhhh, we don't blitz effectively??

Bummer

[TXBOOMER]

Our defense has the least front 7 talent I can remember. Wort has taken steps backwards. He struggles to fill a hole and he overuns lanes repeatedly, he has trouble getting off blocks etc. The line gets blown off of the ball on running plays, they are more worried about contolling running lanes than rushing the passer on passing lanes. It is going to be a long year for this defense. Calling timeouts because they can't get set. They simply can't get three and outs against decent competition.

[8timechamps]

I'd argue that Russell Dennison was a better OU linebacker than Wort. Nelson is one of those guys who looks great in practice, but it doesn't translate into games (though he had a much better game than normal against kstate). All it takes is watching any other big 12 team play to realize that their linebackers and DTs are much, much, much better than ours. When you've been passed by Iowa State in terms of linebacker play, you have a problem.

Here is a nice little exercise for you while we play - press pause on a tackle and see who is around the ballcarrier. Now, if you have one, pop in a 2002 or heck 2005 tape (where our D wasn't great) and do the same. We seem to be missing 2-3 defenders now...

I never saw Dennison play much outside of special teams, and I know he was one of our best ST players. I've defended Venebals a lot, and I still believe he can be a good coordinator, but I've always gone back to how well he recruited. It's starting to look like he didn't recruit as well at the LB spot than I gave him credit for.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Its called CONTAINMENT.

...only if you CONTAIN something is it CONTAINMENT. A QB running for 79 yards on 17 carries with a TD and picking up key, clutch first downs isn't CONTAINING.

I'll go a head a say it...the Stoops' were afraid to blitz Klein. And, that is sad.

[radio]

...only if you CONTAIN something is it CONTAINMENT..

I'll go a head a say it...the Stoops' were afraid to blitz Klein. And, that is sad.

You are right. The idea was to contain but that does not happen when the DE's are getting sucked in and caught in the mess.

Disciplined execution of blocking schemes is a tough thing to defend for inexperienced and out of position defenders.

[soonerdo]

OU is soft on the DL and at LB

[Tear Down This Wall]

OU is soft on the DL and at LB

Corey Nelson makes plays from time to time. Wort...God bless him for wanting to be here, but he isn't a playmaker at all.

They throw in the Franklin kid, but he's not really effective. Jaydan Bird has a scholarship...anyone know why? Joseph Ibiloye...sometimes linebacker, full time linebacker? Either way, not much is coming of it.

I don't understand what is happening at linebacker, and it seems that Tim Kish doesn't either.

[BoulderSooner79]

We couldn't touch their QB because they have large, angry OL-men that wouldn't let us. Bastages.

[Soonerjeepman]

As I recall we had another pretty good DE named Grissom who is now playing TE due to all the players that quit or were kicked off the team last year.

all the TEs were Srs...I thought, Habern quit (neck) Evans (acl) those are 2 Sr O lineman. HUGE loss. We had 3 WR get kick off / suspended...not sure any of that except no TEs is why he was moved.

[Piware]

Does Frank Alexander have any eligibility left...or maybe a younger brother?

[ddub0224]

Our defense has the least front 7 talent I can remember. Wort has taken steps backwards. He struggles to fill a hole and he overuns lanes repeatedly, he has trouble getting off blocks etc. The line gets blown off of the ball on running plays, they are more worried about contolling running lanes than rushing the passer on passing lanes. It is going to be a long year for this defense. Calling timeouts because they can't get set. They simply can't get three and outs against decent competition.

^^This! Completely agree! Two years ago I couldn't wait to watch him play. Now, I hope the play doesn't come his way. He just always seems out of position - close, but never exact.

[PalmBeachSooner]

I'm not sure who is doing stats, but when I saw that Wort had 5 unassisted tackles and 7 assisted before the game I had to laugh (since hopping on the pile shouldn't net you an assist). After the game, he tacked on another 1 solo and 3 assists to keep him near the top to somehow come up with 5U/11A (I have never understood our week to week stats). To come out of a game where there were 44 rushing attempts with 4 tackles as a linebacker is embarrassing. Honestly, I thought the person who did pretty well in the game was Corey Nelson who had about 1/3 the snaps and registered 3S and 1 A.

Jefferson,Tony - 11 UA/14A - 25
Harris,Javon - 14UA/10A - 24
Wort,Tom - 5UA/11A - 16
Colvin,Aaron - 7UA/7A - 14
Ndulae/Nelson/Washington/Hurst/McFarland with all around 11 total


I totally agree. This has to be the worst bunch of LBers in the Stoops era. I don't think it's schemes because we've had some pretty productive LBers regardless of who the DC was.

Even so, the defense played well enough to win. Take away the KSU fumble recovery for a TD and it's a 19-17 gamem, assuming the rest of the scoring stays the same. This loss is totally on the offense.

[budbarrybob]

One of the fundamental problems with the "identity" of our defense is when the fan fave/most productive players are our secondary... NOT LB's NOT DL or DE's. When we think WOW our SS is the stud on the team or wow see the hit our CB put on the guy, best hit all year... we have a problem.

[goingoneight]

We weren't All-World up front in 2000. That's why Tommie Harris and Dusty Dvoracek were such a breath of fresh air in 2001. It was like... "hey, how about that? Pressure from the backers AND the linemen?!?"

[marfacowboy]

I made this point in another thread and Switzer made a similar one in that Tulsa World article about recruiting. I noticed the DL weren't getting off blocks most of the night. They're not blowing up plays. And as I said before the season, our LB's are too small and too slow. That's a bad combination and why you're seeing so many DB's making tackles. We're getting manhandled in the trenches.

But if things were different on the defensive line, Switzer said, a lot of other problems could be overcome.

"They don't have people squatting down in the front four," he said. "They got gashed (against Kansas State) time after time. Can't get off blocks. They can't just go in and push the pocket when they've got to. That's what the Tommie Harrises and Gerald McCoys were able to do.

"Remember how many times they just pushed and all of a sudden there'd be a lot of people back there where the quarterback is? They'd cave in the line. We don't cave in on people because we don't have that type of player.

This is the unfortunate truth, and you can't win national titles or even your conference without those types of guys. The reason Alabama looks unbeatable is their front seven.

[olevetonahill]

I made this point in another thread and Switzer made a similar one in that Tulsa World article about recruiting. I noticed the DL weren't getting off blocks most of the night. They're not blowing up plays. And as I said before the season, our LB's are too small and too slow. That's a bad combination and why you're seeing so many DB's making tackles. We're getting manhandled in the trenches.

But if things were different on the defensive line, Switzer said, a lot of other problems could be overcome.

"They don't have people squatting down in the front four," he said. "They got gashed (against Kansas State) time after time. Can't get off blocks. They can't just go in and push the pocket when they've got to. That's what the Tommie Harrises and Gerald McCoys were able to do.

"Remember how many times they just pushed and all of a sudden there'd be a lot of people back there where the quarterback is? They'd cave in the line. We don't cave in on people because we don't have that type of player.

This is the unfortunate truth, and you can't win national titles or even your conference without those types of guys. The reason Alabama looks unbeatable is their front seven.

So Marfa yer not only a Pompous, know it all condescendin prick Yer also a Liar?



Well, adios fellas. I'll be back when we get a new coach.

[Breadburner]

So Marfa yer not only a Pompous, know it all condescendin prick Yer also a Liar?


Does make him a anFIBian.......???

[olevetonahill]

Does make him a anFIBian.......???

:snowman:

[sooneron]

The full Switer article. He doesn't pull and punches...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20120925_29_B1_NORMAN429202

NORMAN - In the aftermath of Saturday night's 24-19 loss to Kansas State, Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops summed it up best when he fielded a question about his team's toughness."I think we're a tough enough team," Stoops said. "What I don't think is we're a good enough football team."

Barry Switzer agrees completely.

Entitlement isn't the Sooners' problem. Discipline, suspensions and dismissals aren't the problem. Play-calling and schematics aren't the problem (though Switzer has an idea or two about that).

The problem with the Sooners - they narrowly escaped at UTEP, they tripped up repeatedly against Florida A&M, and they couldn't make a key play when they needed one against Kansas State - is simple.

"They just don't have the talent," Switzer said Monday in a phone interview from his Norman home.

Switzer won three national championships and 84 percent of his games from 1973-88. His tenure ended with ignominy before the '89 season when bad behavior became vogue and a handful of players became felons.

Stoops certainly has had discipline problems of his own lately. Fifteen scholarship players left the program prematurely in 2011 and 2012, and four are currently under suspension. But Stoops' troubles aren't to the level of chaos that Switzer had to endure.

OU's current swoon, Switzer said, is more like his stretch of 1981-83, when the Sooners lost four games three years in a row. Both dips, Switzer said, happened because of talent.

Asked Monday if his postgame remark was a comment on the team's talent level, Stoops hedged.

"I don't know," he said. "You could equate it however you want. Regardless, we've got to keep trying to improve."

Switzer, as usual, was more to the point.

"We're not as good as we have been," Switzer said. "We don't have the Tommie Harrises or Gerald McCoys squatting down there in the middle."

A lack of strength in the middle on defense, brought on by several lean recruiting classes, is the biggest culprit. OU signed two tackles in 2011, then re-signed one of those - and that was all - this year.

While the Sooners were adding two defensive tackles in two years, Alabama signed seven.

"You've got a quota, and if you can only sign 18, 19, 20 players and you've got to get every position covered, that limits you to how many you can get," Switzer said. "When you don't sign any, when you're shut out, you really are in trouble. Because it really makes you fall off. If you can't play defense, people will beat your ***."

Jamarkus McFarland, Stacy McGee and Casey Walker are all fifth-year seniors and third-year starters. But they've been just average throughout their careers, and Walker missed the first two games this season because he was burned out on football, and McGee remains under university suspension (a source told the Tulsa World on Monday that McGee wouldn't be back until after the Notre Dame game Oct. 27).

"Sometimes you don't want the experienced players coming back every year," Switzer said. "I experienced that, too. Everybody's, 'Well, we got our whole team coming back.' Well, I'm not too damn sure I'd not rather have some damn sophomores. I'd rather have Lee Roy and Dewey and Lucious (Selmon) as sophomores than a bunch of five-year seniors.

"I'd rather have Tommie Harris as a freshman than a bunch of fifth-year seniors that are average."

Switzer also acknowledged problems with the offense (Landry Jones is far too inconsistent for a four-year starter), and a committee of running backs indicates there's not one great one in camp.

But if things were different on the defensive line, Switzer said, a lot of other problems could be overcome.

"They don't have people squatting down in the front four," he said. "They got gashed (against Kansas State) time after time. Can't get off blocks. They can't just go in and push the pocket when they've got to. That's what the Tommie Harrises and Gerald McCoys were able to do.

"Remember how many times they just pushed and all of a sudden there'd be a lot of people back there where the quarterback is? They'd cave in the line. We don't cave in on people because we don't have that type of player.

"You've got to get 'em. And everybody's trying to get those guys. ... But the scholarship limitation makes that, because you're only gonna get three or four of those guys, and you want all three or four of 'em to be Tommie Harrises, don't you? Alabama gets the top three or four Tommie Harrises."


Original Print Headline: Switzer: OU's problem lies in roster's lack of talent

By JOHN E. HOOVER World Spor

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20120925_29_B1_NORMAN429202

[marfacowboy]

So Marfa yer not only a Pompous, know it all condescendin prick Yer also a Liar?

I've never seen a bigger bunch of dickheads in my life than what's on this forum. You're so ****ing rude and childish it's unbelievable.
I was so frustrated after the game, I didn't want to talk about football anymore, but of course those frustrations fade. But life's too short to deal with ignorant, mean people. I shouldn't have come back.

[olevetonahill]

I've never seen a bigger bunch of dickheads in my life than what's on this forum. You're so ****ing rude and childish it's unbelievable.
I was so frustrated after the game, I didn't want to talk about football anymore, but of course those frustrations fade. But life's too short to deal with ignorant, mean people. I shouldn't have come back.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nyyTUpcaLpI/S6ePWUQHx8I/AAAAAAAABJ0/9yBV4Hlvtt8/s400/c-ya.jpg

[sooneron]

I wonder if when we signed McFarland, all those years ago. (Huge articles about him and his recruitment) We thought we'd be set with the big stud anchoring the LOS. He hasn't lived up to the hype coming into the program. I'd take 5 Adrian Taylors over him any day. I'm not sure if this was Shipp's fault (kind of think it would have to be to a degree) BJW's fault or BV's fault.

[JLEW1818]

I wonder if when we signed McFarland, all those years ago. (Huge articles about him and his recruitment) We thought we'd be set with the big stud anchoring the LOS. He hasn't lived up to the hype coming into the program. I'd take 5 Adrian Taylors over him any day. I'm not sure if this was Shipp's fault (kind of think it would have to be to a degree) BJW's fault or BV's fault.

agree

[sooneron]

Oh, and don't get me started on RJ. He's backing up a guy with 1(S) and 3(A)!
Plus, we don't have the Austin Box excuse for the LBs anymore. They are playing lost out there and they're too undersized to get off blocks. Even if its a flipping RB!

[Breadburner]

If we dont turn the ball over....No ones talking about any of this ****....

[Tear Down This Wall]

I wonder if when we signed McFarland, all those years ago. (Huge articles about him and his recruitment) We thought we'd be set with the big stud anchoring the LOS. He hasn't lived up to the hype coming into the program. I'd take 5 Adrian Taylors over him any day. I'm not sure if this was Shipp's fault (kind of think it would have to be to a degree) BJW's fault or BV's fault.

Amazing isn't it. Not just McFarland, but the kid before him as well DeMarcus Granger. Although Granger had injury problems at times, he didn't often live up to the hype when healthy.

Remember Blake holdovers Ryan Fisher, Barry Holleyman, Ramon Richardson, and transfer Jeremy Wilson-Guest getting it done in 2000. None of those were highly rated, but played with guts and grit. We don't have that now.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Amazing isn't it. Not just McFarland, but the kid before him as well DeMarcus Granger. Although Granger had injury problems at times, he didn't often live up to the hype when healthy.

Remember Blake holdovers Ryan Fisher, Barry Holleyman, Ramon Richardson, and transfer Jeremy Wilson-Guest getting it done in 2000. None of those were highly rated, but played with guts and grit. We don't have that now.

The major difference in those 4 and who we have now is that they held the line in the trenches. Every single down. I, personally, thought that we took a step back in DL talent when we caved under Mack's recruiting pitch for Tommie Harris. The first 2 years, our goal on the DL was to keep the LBs clean. After TH, we had guys who would rush the passer. This wasn't that bad when we had one side fireplug and one side finesser (Dusty on the other side of TH), but in the last 7 years we've been getting smaller and smaller on both DL. This is mostly because Shipp has cashed it in on recruiting just like BV did (1 star recruit every 4 years). I mean when we are talking about "impressive" DTs that are 6'5 265 I just cringe. We have to have one DT that is 310-320 or a line with that guy is going to be pushed back 10 yards more often that not.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

We weren't All-World up front in 2000. That's why Tommie Harris and Dusty Dvoracek were such a breath of fresh air in 2001. It was like... "hey, how about that? Pressure from the backers AND the linemen?!?"

The 2001 defense also got ripped continuously by mobile QBs because of that pressure. In the college game, DTs have to hold dirt and anchor it so the whole gap responsbility thing works. Rushing DTs tend to take the path of least resistance giving other teams monster holes.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Damn, that sounds familiar.

I remember a conversation where I said the same thing last year and got clowned for it.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The 2001 defense also got ripped continuously by mobile QBs because of that pressure. In the college game, DTs have to hold dirt and anchor it so the whole gap responsbility thing works. Rushing DTs tend to take the path of least resistance giving other teams monster holes.

How was the 2001 defense "ripped"? The 2000 defense gave up 194 points, the 2001 defense only gave up 169, best of the Stoops Era. So...neither were ripped much. Not near as much as now.

Actually, the 2009 defense (an 8-5 year) was the last defense to give up less than 200 points in a season (189...again, less than the 2000 national title team).

The 2009 team scored three shut outs...most since Switzer's 1986 crew that five shutout in a season where the defense allowed only 81 points in all 12 games!

The 1986 defense, Barry's 1974 (three shutouts, 92 points) and Fairbanks' 1972 (four shut outs, 74 points) have been the greatest OU defenses on my lifetime.

The 2001 defense was Stoops' most dominant. The 2009 defensive performance was tragic because of Sam's injury. That really was a lost season. Defense was there.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

How was the 2001 defense "ripped"? The 2000 defense gave up 194 points, the 2001 defense only gave up 169, best of the Stoops Era. So...neither were ripped much. Not near as much as now.

Actually, the 2009 defense (an 8-5 year) was the last defense to give up less than 200 points in a season (189...again, less than the 2000 national title team).

The 2009 team scored three shut outs...most since Switzer's 1986 crew that five shutout in a season where the defense allowed only 81 points in all 12 games!

The 1986 defense, Barry's 1974 (three shutouts, 92 points) and Fairbanks' 1972 (four shut outs, 74 points) have been the greatest OU defenses on my lifetime.

The 2001 defense was Stoops' most dominant. The 2009 defensive performance was tragic because of Sam's injury. That really was a lost season. Defense was there.

In 2001, we only faced THE roberson and Crouch (we were 1 and 1 in those games and oh so close to 0 and 2) although you could make a case for Matt whatshisface at Arky. The list goes on and on - Brad Smith/Vince Young etc. We gave up over 200 yards of rushing to those guys.

[SoonerorLater]

I wonder if when we signed McFarland, all those years ago. (Huge articles about him and his recruitment) We thought we'd be set with the big stud anchoring the LOS. He hasn't lived up to the hype coming into the program. I'd take 5 Adrian Taylors over him any day. I'm not sure if this was Shipp's fault (kind of think it would have to be to a degree) BJW's fault or BV's fault.

Like Switzer said everybody is looking for those big time DT's. Of all positions on a team, DT seems the hardest to recruit to. You can find DEs pretty easy but it seems every year there are just a relative few dominant DTs that are available and all of them seem to wind up at Alalbama.

[sooneron]

In 2001, we only faced THE roberson and Crouch (we were 1 and 1 in those games and oh so close to 0 and 2) although you could make a case for Matt whatshisface at Arky. The list goes on and on - Brad Smith/Vince Young etc. We gave up over 200 yards of rushing to those guys.

Well, in 2002, those issues came home to roost. With the exception of ISU's QB.

[8timechamps]

Like Switzer said everybody is looking for those big time DT's. Of all positions on a team, DT seems the hardest to recruit to. You can find DEs pretty easy but it seems every year there are just a relative few dominant DTs that are available and all of them seem to wind up at Alalbama.

The good news is that we currently have offers out to 3 DTs over 300 lbs and 6'4" or taller. The bad news is that 2 of the 3 are JuCo guys. I'm very interested to see how the players recruited to Mike's system differ from what we've seen in the past.

[sooneron]

I have no issue with JuCo guys as long as they can start right away. :D

[JLEW1818]

Complete garbage on the DLine.

[8timechamps]

Complete garbage on the DLine.

Seriously, you either need to learn the game better or quit watching. No, we are not great along the D-line. Complete garbage? That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen you post.