So Libs How will Obammy spin this?

[olevetonahill]

Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — significantly more than first estimated— will face a tax penalty under President Barack Obama's health overhaul for not getting insurance, congressional analysts said Wednesday. Most would be in the middle class.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.


http://news.yahoo.com/tax-penalty-hit-nearly-6m-uninsured-people-194442599.html

[diverdog]

Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — significantly more than first estimated— will face a tax penalty under President Barack Obama's health overhaul for not getting insurance, congressional analysts said Wednesday. Most would be in the middle class.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.


http://news.yahoo.com/tax-penalty-hit-nearly-6m-uninsured-people-194442599.html

Either they pay for it or you pay for it. How is that?

[olevetonahill]

Either they pay for it or you pay for it. How is that?

OOh Thats Good, Ima write that down

[OU_Sooners75]

Either they pay for it or you pay for it. How is that?

Wow...why is it your concern that I may or may not have health insurance?

It shouldn't be the governments concern either!!!

[diverdog]

Wow...why is it your concern that I may or may not have health insurance?

It shouldn't be the governments concern either!!!

Because in the end I pay for it in my premiums:


WASHINGTON — The average U.S. family and their employers paid an extra $1,017 in health care premiums last year to compensate for the uninsured, according to a study to be released Thursday by an advocacy group for health care consumers.
Families USA, which supports expanded health care coverage, found that about 37% of health care costs for people without insurance — or a total of $42.7 billion — went unpaid last year. That cost eventually was shifted to the insured through higher premiums, according to the group.



http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm

The insured pay for the uninsured. Not all uninsured but a lot of them.

[olevetonahill]

Because in the end I pay for it in my premiums:



http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm

The insured pay for the uninsured. Not all uninsured but a lot of them.

You dayum sure Pay fer my health care :chuncky:

[rock on sooner]

You dayum sure Pay fer my health care :chuncky:

Yup, cause yew earned it...gettin yer a$$ shot at an all...thanks!

[diverdog]

You dayum sure Pay fer my health care :chuncky:

I consider that money well spent. Just on the entertainment value alone. I suppose the shine is for medicinal purposes?

Vet are you 100% disabled?

[olevetonahill]

I consider that money well spent. Just on the entertainment value alone. I suppose the shine is for medicinal purposes?

Vet are you 100% disabled?

Yes an yes
as Ole South carolina Sooner says Im on "Veterans Welfare" :snowman:

[OU_Sooners75]

Because in the end I pay for it in my premiums:



http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm

The insured pay for the uninsured. Not all uninsured but a lot of them.


Since whenn did insurance companies start owning and operating hospitals and other medical facilities?

Since when has insurance companies been footed the bill? If they have been, then it should be taken to court. Because that seems unlawful imo.

That said, if the insured are paying for the unisured, like the insurance companies want to lead people to believe, then why do medical center, doctors offices, etc report to credit agencies?

Why do they bill the uninsured if you are picking up the bill?

Think about it for a moment. Either the medical industry is committing some type of crime, or the insurance companies are by charging outrageous rates.

[diverdog]

Since whenn did insurance companies start owning and operating hospitals and other medical facilities?

Since when has insurance companies been footed the bill? If they have been, then it should be taken to court. Because that seems unlawful imo.

That said, if the insured are paying for the unisured, like the insurance companies want to lead people to believe, then why do medical center, doctors offices, etc report to credit agencies?

Why do they bill the uninsured if you are picking up the bill?

Think about it for a moment. Either the medical industry is committing some type of crime, or the insurance companies are by charging outrageous rates.

I think by law they cannot deny care. So the care is provide and when it is not paid for they have to write it off.

The solution to this is pretty simple. Deny care to those who cannot pay the entire cost up front. If you need surgery then go get a bank loan. I am pretty sure people would think twice about not buying insurance.

[diverdog]

Yes an yes
as Ole South carolina Sooner says Im on "Veterans Welfare" :snowman:

Me too. I am trying to get my adjustment up to 60% but it is a slog. They pay me 40% but I am in so much pain at night I cannot sleep. Hence the 0h-dark-30 post. Still I fight it and try to live a normal life for my boys.

[olevetonahill]

Me too. I am trying to get my adjustment up to 60% but it is a slog. They pay me 40% but I am in so much pain at night I cannot sleep. Hence the 0h-dark-30 post. Still I fight it and try to live a normal life for my boys.

Let the D.A.V. Fight em for ya. I never got past 50% until I did
I sleep maybe 1 er 2 hours at a time then wide awake again , They gave me Pills but I wont take em. Ive known too many folk get strung out on those things and they aint worth a **** , Ill drank too much take a toke every now and then

[OU_Sooners75]

I think by law they cannot deny care. So the care is provide and when it is not paid for they have to write it off.

The solution to this is pretty simple. Deny care to those who cannot pay the entire cost up front. If you need surgery then go get a bank loan. I am pretty sure people would think twice about not buying insurance.

Its not about thinking twice about buying insurance.

Its called some people cannot afford to buy insurance. So maybe if the government really wanted to help people instead of nationalizing it, they should place a mandate on insurance companies that cap the rates they can charge. Then they should cap what settlements can payout for malpractice.

The reason insurance is so expensive isn't from uninsured alone, if at all. It is because joe blow can sue a doctor or hospital for medical malpractice and win a ton of monney. This in return effects the cost of doing business.

Finally if its a law that the medical profession must provide help (which it isn't) then why worry about insurance anyway?

Its an oath the medical profession takes, to treat all sick and injured, not a law. If was a law, then you could walk into an urgent care facility without insurance and get treated instead of being forced to visit the general hospital.

If it was a law, then you could walk into any doctor office and get treated, instead of being declined because they aren't taking new patients or won't take visitors without insurance.

Diverdog, ill conceede the middle east subject a lot. The medical industry is something I do know something about.

[diverdog]

Let the D.A.V. Fight em for ya. I never got past 50% until I did
I sleep maybe 1 er 2 hours at a time then wide awake again , They gave me Pills but I wont take em. Ive known too many folk get strung out on those things and they aint worth a **** , Ill drank too much take a toke every now and then

I had a great case officer with the American Legion but he retired so I may go to the DAV.

At one time I was eating two big bottles of Tylenol a week and it eventually split my liver. Doc almost killed me and now I can't take them anymore.

[olevetonahill]

I had a great case officer with the American Legion but he retired so I may go to the DAV.

At one time I was eating two big bottles of Tylenol a week and it eventually split my liver. Doc almost killed me and now I can't take them anymore.

Yea, I stay away from that crap, They were Giving me 800 MG Ibuprofen and telling me to take em 3 and 4 times a day . Did a Little readin and said **** that noise, if Im gonna kill my liver Ill do with Booze :welcoming:

Never tied anyone But DVA. Been a Paid up Life member for 30 years or better

[diverdog]

Its not about thinking twice about buying insurance.

Its called some people cannot afford to buy insurance. So maybe if the government really wanted to help people instead of nationalizing it, they should place a mandate on insurance companies that cap the rates they can charge. Then they should cap what settlements can payout for malpractice.

The reason insurance is so expensive isn't from uninsured alone, if at all. It is because joe blow can sue a doctor or hospital for medical malpractice and win a ton of monney. This in return effects the cost of doing business.

Finally if its a law that the medical profession must provide help (which it isn't) then why worry about insurance anyway?

Its an oath the medical profession takes, to treat all sick and injured, not a law. If was a law, then you could walk into an urgent care facility without insurance and get treated instead of being forced to visit the general hospital.

If it was a law, then you could walk into any doctor office and get treated, instead of being declined because they aren't taking new patients or won't take visitors without insurance.

Diverdog, ill conceede the middle east subject a lot. The medical industry is something I do know something about.

I am pretty much at the edge of knowledge on this subject.

All I remember is sitting in on a bond deal for our local hospital and hearing them tell us how much they write off every year due to people not paying their medicals bills. It was staggering. So I may have concluded wrongly that the cost that I pay for medical care was inflated to pay for those who do not have insurance.

I am lucky because I have three health insurance coverages. My primary insurance through my employer, secondary coverage through my wife's employer and the VA. Really I cannot bitch and I am incredibly lucky.

[diverdog]

Yea, I stay away from that crap, They were Giving me 800 MG Ibuprofen and telling me to take em 3 and 4 times a day . Did a Little readin and said **** that noise, if Im gonna kill my liver Ill do with Booze :welcoming:

Never tied anyone But DVA. Been a Paid up Life member for 30 years or better

They just put me on Tramadol 100mg and it helps.

[OU_Sooners75]

I am pretty much at the edge of knowledge on this subject.

All I remember is sitting in on a bond deal for our local hospital and hearing them tell us how much they write off every year due to people not paying their medicals bills. It was staggering. So I may have concluded wrongly that the cost that I pay for medical care was inflated to pay for those who do not have insurance.

I am lucky because I have three health insurance coverages. My primary insurance through my employer, secondary coverage through my wife's employer and the VA. Really I cannot bitch and I am incredibly lucky.

It is staggering. I won't even pretend to try to throw out a number. Its astromonical I do know.

Most hospitals are set up as not for profit, so when they write it off, its not a stinging pressure to them. Most hospitals run in the red anyway.

Saying that, the uninsured have very little if at all nothing, to do with the insurance premiums going up in cost. Its just a lobbying move that they have came up with to get what they want.

Not to mention the lavish trips insurance companies will give their regional and local branches for increased revenue.

Insurance companies need regulation...they are very very crooked!

[olevetonahill]

Not sure the reasoning behind it But I know for a fact that the Local H here will charge 10 times or better more if you Dont have have Ins. Im thinking its so they can have more to show in the write off column but aint sure.

[SCOUT]

It is staggering. I won't even pretend to try to throw out a number. Its astromonical I do know.

Most hospitals are set up as not for profit, so when they write it off, its not a stinging pressure to them. Most hospitals run in the red anyway.

Saying that, the uninsured have very little if at all nothing, to do with the insurance premiums going up in cost. Its just a lobbying move that they have came up with to get what they want.

Not to mention the lavish trips insurance companies will give their regional and local branches for increased revenue.

Insurance companies need regulation...they are very very crooked!
I don't work in health care, but I do work with health insurance providers and this is just not true. Health Care providers charge for their services based on their costs. Uninsured services are a cost and are made up elsewhere. MRI's are some of the most pronounced examples.

Health insurance providers, charge premiums based on their payment ratio. If they pay out more in claims than they took in from premiums, for your group, then they raise the rates. If they pay out far less than they took in, they will likely keep your rates flat. It then becomes your responsibility to shop your plan because I can guarantee that another provider will be happy to bid a low risk group.

Anyway, costs don't magically get written off. They are absorbed into a business model that is then funded by those with insurance.

They may be crooked, but the impact of the uninsured is not what you claim it to be.

[Sooner5030]

I know many places are starting to differentiate between urgent and emergency care......I think this is an effort to stop E-room abuse.

I've always believed that our cultural attributes are far greater responsible for our problems than the type of health care system we have. So I doubt either dem or pub plan would help much.

I'd rather have the open market type where everyone pays for routine and preventive out of pocket and then pools together for acute and catastrophic. But most in our society dont even know what health INSURANCE is.....they've always had managed health care plans......with a copay. Once we started pooling routine costs the game was over......a 'tragedy of the commons' type motivation causes too many to have motive to abuse the system. It's just no longer a reality to have the pre-90s type of insurance and health care.

Based on that reality we need to provide a baseline & rationed government plan for everyone.....and everyone pays in through either a payroll tax or national sales tax. De-link health insurance from the employee/employer relationship and watch jobs grow. Allow free market insurance and care to be provided for those that want to pool or pay out of pocket after paying the tax but opting to bypass the services. I'd pay just to stay away from the general public.