Debtors prisons good idea or stupid bad idea

[usmc-sooner]

I think prison is a little harsh but some people should not be allowed to get credit cards. A girl I work with (pretty hot) got some Capital One credit card and bought sh*t and didn't pay it back. Today she's complaining that Capital One is taking action against her. Although I didn't say it out loud, I was thinking did you not use the card to buy a bunch of stuff? Now you just don't want to pay? Why not just steal it if you don't want to pay.

Also know people who live beyond their means and struggle mightily to pay their bills. Sometimes to the point of getting sued. Why not just live within your means.

Today I'm looking at some property and notice all the liens against it. How many times do you have to be sued and lose before you're just a con man or woman. Contract someone to fix a roof, didn't pay for it. Got sued and lost still hasn't paid along with about 4 other times getting sued and being ordered to pay but hasn't.

Didn't mean to rant but today got me thinking. Pay people the money you owe them!!! and FIRE VENABLES!!!

[8timechamps]

Debtors prison is a little harsh. I think the system we have now works okay. If your credit sucks, it will catch up to you.

I have never understood why people don't live within their means. i think it's the folks that value "keeping up with the Jones'" over everything else.

[StoopTroup]

The outrage. I had no idea people did this.

[Midtowner]

Nah.. the credit card companies know damn well they're risking folks declaring bankruptcy.

Also, we do sort of have debtor's prison in the form of hearings on assets or incarcerations for failures to appear by debtors.

[usmc-sooner]

The outrage. I had no idea people did this.

sober up and get with the program Broke back Oxycotton.

[usmc-sooner]

Nah.. the credit card companies know damn well they're risking folks declaring bankruptcy.


What I'm saying is why get the card and buy a bunch of crap you can't afford with crazy interest rates. Then bitch when they come after you.

[StoopTroup]

....

[FirstandGoal]

Okay, so what about people who are living within their means and doing all of the right things and then some kind of horrible illness like cancer or something causes them to have exhorbitant medical bills (even after insurance pays) and because they've been so sick they can no longer work as many hours and they're the only income of a household with 2 kids depending on you?

Then what's gonna happen guys?

Not all people who owe tons of money are bad people or made bad decisions.

[usmc-sooner]

They ought to put you back in some sort of mental care facility. It's hard to understand how they let you walk the streets...or do they? Are you on Lock Down with Internet Access?

What's hard to understand is the crap you post. You're drug induced rants, you're fights with olevet, your weird idea about Dean retiring. Just gets old. How about we just drop and stay on topic.

[usmc-sooner]

Okay, so what about people who are living within their means and doing all of the right things and then some kind of horrible illness like cancer or something causes them to have exhorbitant medical bills (even after insurance pays) and because they've been so sick they can no longer work as many hours and they're the only income of a household with 2 kids depending on you?

Then what's gonna happen guys?

Not all people who owe tons of money are bad people or made bad decisions.

I don't have a problem with these type of people. I'm complaining about people who just have no personal responsibility.

[StoopTroup]

Okay, so what about people who are living within their means and doing all of the right things and then some kind of horrible illness like cancer or something causes them to have exhorbitant medical bills (even after insurance pays) and because they've been so sick they can no longer work as many hours and they're the only income of a household with 2 kids depending on you?

Then what's gonna happen guys?

Not all people who owe tons of money are bad people or made bad decisions.

Yep. Not everyone gets a credit card and doesn't expect to have to pay it. Some folks take risks just like businesses do and sometimes those risks blow up in their face because of unforeseen problems.

Plenty of folks have started a small business using credit cards for instance. Should they go to prison because they were wrong about it panning out? I think not.

[StoopTroup]

...

[olevetonahill]

Okay, so what about people who are living within their means and doing all of the right things and then some kind of horrible illness like cancer or something causes them to have exhorbitant medical bills (even after insurance pays) and because they've been so sick they can no longer work as many hours and they're the only income of a household with 2 kids depending on you?

Then what's gonna happen guys?

Not all people who owe tons of money are bad people or made bad decisions.

There should be the Catastrophic Health exception
I think hes talkin more about the deadbeats who just say screw it and wont pay

[StoopTroup]

I don't have a problem with these type of people. I'm complaining about people who just have no personal responsibility.

Then they get an attorney and you will need to prove they meet your criteria?

[StoopTroup]

There should be the Catastrophic Health exception
I think hes talkin more about the deadbeats who just say screw it and wont pay

Again....they get an attorney and you suffer burden of proof. If they don't pay then you garnish their wages. If they can't live on that they disappear and end up under a bridge or at Aunt Bessies cause she don't like it that the mean old bank is gonna put little Lisa or Bart in teh big bad jail?

[Mjcpr]

I would like to personally attack too!

Capital One doesn't play. I pay my bills, but I've heard they will sue you for Indebtedness simply for not paying them what you rightfully owe.

[StoopTroup]

I never agreed with how folks ever abused the bankruptcy laws but they changed those. Then the Credit Card Folks tried to get it both ways by trying to push people's Interest Rates and Fees to a point they couldn't ever pay it. Then the law changed on them and now we have what we have.

Just what we need is another law to fix the problem?

I'd sure need to see what that looks like. There is also laws that have to due with Indentured Servitude in this Country?

Gawd I hope USMC can understand this.

[usmc-sooner]

I understand nobody has ever forced me to get a credit card or to borrow money or buy something I couldn't afford.

[olevetonahill]

Again....they get an attorney and you suffer burden of proof. If they don't pay then you garnish their wages. If they can't live on that they disappear and end up under a bridge or at Aunt Bessies cause she don't like it that the mean old bank is gonna put little Lisa or Bart in teh big bad jail?

Your perception of this is kinda skewed a bit, Prolly cause you always paid your bills and own your home and such
There are folk out there who have decent credit yet dont mind screwing it up just to shaft a CC company or anyone else who will extend them credit, Garnish their wages? Sure , they just quit their jobs and go somewhere else.

The Dead beats USMC are talking about , Know how to game the system, I know I had a shatpot full of em screw me over in my Shop. Take em to small claims court? Did that. The judge we had here at that time thought he was Solomon, Didnt matter what the deal was , He cut every thing in 1/2 and made sure there were NO winners nor real losers

[StoopTroup]

Three years in a Corporate Credit Card Division says you are wrong about what you think I know about how people screw the system.

[usmc-sooner]

Three years in a Corporate Credit Card Division says you are wrong about what you think I know about how people screw the system.

Oh and until that POS that calls himself a Marine stops with the calls of me being a drunk or a drug abuser....I truly figure he's a really sad example of a Marine never the less anything resembling a functioning human.

Your a disgrace USMC.

You're

[SicEmBaylor]

You're
He has a very very difficult time with that one.

[SicEmBaylor]

Three years in a Corporate Credit Card Division says you are wrong about what you think I know about how people screw the system.

Oh and until that POS that calls himself a Marine stops with the calls of me being a drunk or a drug abuser....I truly figure he's a really sad example of a Marine never the less anything resembling a functioning human.

Your a disgrace USMC.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think you're a "drunk or a drug abuser" -- I think you're both.

[StoopTroup]

...

[StoopTroup]

...

[SicEmBaylor]

Thanks Frances.


And I think your a Homo. Something are pretty obvious. So think what you want.

NTTAWWT
Got it wrong again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p8d6OudgU&feature=player_embedded

[usmc-sooner]

He has a very very difficult time with that one.

Three years in Corporate will do that to you.

[C&CDean]

Make it stop.

[StoopTroup]

Should have never started.

I apologize Dean.

[usmc-sooner]

I never wanted to make it start, you old coots dig your feet in the ground. I'd just like to get back on topic. Probably never will though.

[StoopTroup]

Stop with the baiting?

[usmc-sooner]

Stop with the baiting?

Is that a question?

[MountainOkie]

It sounds like you guys are trying to hammer out the distinction between the fraudulent intent of those who take on debt without any intention of repaying the debt and those who can't repay due to circumstance and/or incompentence or negligence.

I agree that jail time should be a possibility in the first case and fraud IS a crime on the books already.

They used to put people in debtor's prison for the other, non-fradulent, failure to pay, but stopped doing so in the 1800s because they viewed it as inhumane. Most of those who wound up in those places were either the sad, broken rejects of society or good people who ran into some bad luck and so lost their very freedom. Charles Dickens father was one of the latter.

I still think debtors prisons are inhumane. I'd also add that they're downright unAmerican.

[8timechamps]

Okay, so what about people who are living within their means and doing all of the right things and then some kind of horrible illness like cancer or something causes them to have exhorbitant medical bills (even after insurance pays) and because they've been so sick they can no longer work as many hours and they're the only income of a household with 2 kids depending on you?

Then what's gonna happen guys?

Not all people who owe tons of money are bad people or made bad decisions.

These people are THE WORST! They shouldn't be allowed to own money...ever!



kidding.

[StoopTroup]

Is that a question?

It was an educated guess.

[Sooner5030]

F debtor's prison. Creditors need to be darwin'd out when they make poor decisions....that's is why we have bk. It provides some balance.

[Wishboned]

Your perception of this is kinda skewed a bit, Prolly cause you always paid your bills and own your home and such
There are folk out there who have decent credit yet dont mind screwing it up just to shaft a CC company or anyone else who will extend them credit, Garnish their wages? Sure , they just quit their jobs and go somewhere else.


My ex-wife is one of those people. She has skated through most of her life with other people paying for it. Currently she has two judgments against her. Every time she finds a new job I contact the attorneys who are handling the judgments and wham! she gets garnished again. She has no idea how they find out.

[olevetonahill]

My ex-wife is one of those people. She has skated through most of her life with other people paying for it. Currently she has two judgments against her. Every time she finds a new job I contact the attorneys who are handling the judgments and wham! she gets garnished again. She has no idea how they find out.

Good Jorb

[usmc-sooner]

I'm not talking predatory lending.

I'm talking about someone who gets a Capital One or Visa or Am Ex and just go crazy. I'm talking about people living beyond their means, people who are constantly sued who have the money. Not medical or catastrophic cases.

At some point when you've been sued over and over and over for a long period of time, you're a con artist.

[jk the sooner fan]

how in debt to a credit card company do you have to be before they take you to court over it? i cant imagine that they'd do this unless its pretty high - and there in lies the problem - some people let their balances get so high - and over extend themselves - living beyond their means

i think the credit card companies actually write off a fair amount as loss before they go to court over it - what the collection agencies cant' get - etc etc

[tator]

F debtor's prison. Creditors need to be darwin'd out when they make poor decisions....that's is why we have bk. It provides some balance.

Burger King?

[Scott D]

how in debt to a credit card company do you have to be before they take you to court over it? i cant imagine that they'd do this unless its pretty high - and there in lies the problem - some people let their balances get so high - and over extend themselves - living beyond their means

i think the credit card companies actually write off a fair amount as loss before they go to court over it - what the collection agencies cant' get - etc etc

That's a good question, since in many cases they tend to sell off a lot of those delinquent accounts for pennies on the dollar at some point if they never get paid. I've seen instances where an account has been sold 5-6 times with collection agencies.

[jk the sooner fan]

they sell them off? serious?

did not know that - so based on that - i'm guessing if a credit card company files suit against you - it's for a hefty unpaid balance??

[StoopTroup]

Next time I'm just going to answer "Bad Idea".

[StoopTroup]

they sell them off? serious?

did not know that - so based on that - i'm guessing if a credit card company files suit against you - it's for a hefty unpaid balance??

Sometimes it's because they were unable to negotiate a reasonable payoff or the debtor disappeared?

[StoopTroup]

Know a guy that bought a $4000 mower from Home Depot or Lowes. He put $1000 down on it and financed the rest on their promotional Retail Finance Card Account. He began mowing with it and was struck by an uninsured motorist. He had to take a leave of absence from his work and when vacation ran out and he got MRSA in the area of his surgery, he was not only without income and health insurance after a year but he was having to fight the insurance company.

His Nephew was mowing his property and one of those plastic bags stores like to put your stuff in got sucked up into the mower deck. He shut it down ASAP and then found out the bag had wrapped around the Hydrostatic Transmission and damaged one side of the Mowers most important working parts. He got the mower into the shop and was told it was negligence on his part and that it wasn't covered under warranty.

He went into dispute with them on it but the Credit Company started to call and tell him his payment was late. He told them that until they got the Mower repaired he wasn't going to pay them a dime.

A year later he ran into a guy that fixed mowers for a living and he found out he had a used Transmission that he could install and fix his mower. The Transmission new was so expensive that it was like a third of what it cost to buy the thing in the first place. Pretty Shocking considering that when you add up the cost of replacement parts the cost to put one together yourself would be 3-4 times what Home Depot or Lowes sells them for new.

It's a racket. They know these mowers are subject to having this happen and instead of putting a guard or doing a re-design on them....they continue to make them and sell them to folks that have no idea how bad running a little plastic bag could be with a $4000 mower. I don't think they are indestructible but you would think they could handle a small bag and be able to eject it from the mower deck instead of sucking it up into the transmission.

The guy fixed his mower. The Card Company threatened to ruin his credit. They got a judgement against him. They have never collected a dime. The owner isn't back to work yet and quite possibly will end up on Social Security. Should he ever be able to go back to work....he will probably get garnished for the judgement amount.

Right now after all this time....the attempt to ruin his credit have failed. If they would negotiate with him....he would pay them a fair amount to make the debt go away and they would see some money come their way. As it is right now.....they will never see a dime and you and I will absorb the costs of the late fees and court costs the Card Company piled up on this guy. His credit rating is good enough to buy a $100,000 Home if he wanted to now but legally the Card Company can't touch him.

Should he go to jail? He still pays taxes on 5-10 properties and his mower is running like a top and he is very happy and has moved on. Other than the problem with this mower....he's a heck of a guy that asked people to treat him fairly and later realized no matter how much they would call and threaten him....he could ride that mower...send them pictures of himself riding it with a message of Merry Christmas on it in their pre-paid postage envelopes.

Ain't life grand? :D

Sometimes you can't fix stupid and IMO nobody in this case should go to jail.

His yard looks beautiful. I wish I could get him to take care of mine.

[jk the sooner fan]

No way in hell I'm reading all that

[StoopTroup]

No way in hell I'm reading all that

No biggie. I just know a lot about how folks get out of paying for ****.

As he has told me about this as it progressed.....it's hard to believe things can go so far past stupid but in this case...it has.

[SicEmBaylor]

My only contribution to this thread is to say that I do not believe in incarcerating for non-violent offenses.

[usmc-sooner]

oh I don't believe in putting them in jail, how are they going to pay off their debts from jail.

Just some of these people irritate the hell out of me.

[FirstandGoal]

Okay, so this is veering off-topic, but I have a question.

What is the difference between the 18 year old girl who takes out a credit card, runs up a ridiculous balance from buying nice clothes, shoes, purses, fancy meals and doesn't pay verses the 18 year old girl who goes out, gets knocked up and becomes a welfare mom where she is then able to go buy nice clothes, purses, shoes and gets free food. Oh yeah, and completely free healthcare.

I can tell you right now which group of people bother me the most.

[olevetonahill]

Okay, so this is veering off-topic, but I have a question.

What is the difference between the 18 year old girl who takes out a credit card, runs up a ridiculous balance from buying nice clothes, shoes, purses, fancy meals and doesn't pay verses the 18 year old girl who goes out, gets knocked up and becomes a welfare mom where she is then able to go buy nice clothes, purses, shoes and gets free food. Oh yeah, and completely free healthcare.

I can tell you right now which group of people bother me the most.

They are Both very bad girls and must be punished
Send me their Names and addies :excitement:

[BeaSooner]

All these write-offs and bankruptcy result in someone having to make up the difference. Usually in fees, interest rates, etc. You know....for those that actually budget, live within their means, and pay their bills. I know of too many people that buy everything they can on credit immediately prior to filing bankruptcy. Again, write offs by the stores, which raise prices to cover the losses. It is no better than stealing.

[pphilfran]

Know a guy that bought a $4000 mower from Home Depot or Lowes. He put $1000 down on it and financed the rest on their promotional Retail Finance Card Account. He began mowing with it and was struck by an uninsured motorist. He had to take a leave of absence from his work and when vacation ran out and he got MRSA in the area of his surgery, he was not only without income and health insurance after a year but he was having to fight the insurance company.

His Nephew was mowing his property and one of those plastic bags stores like to put your stuff in got sucked up into the mower deck. He shut it down ASAP and then found out the bag had wrapped around the Hydrostatic Transmission and damaged one side of the Mowers most important working parts. He got the mower into the shop and was told it was negligence on his part and that it wasn't covered under warranty.

He went into dispute with them on it but the Credit Company started to call and tell him his payment was late. He told them that until they got the Mower repaired he wasn't going to pay them a dime.

A year later he ran into a guy that fixed mowers for a living and he found out he had a used Transmission that he could install and fix his mower. The Transmission new was so expensive that it was like a third of what it cost to buy the thing in the first place. Pretty Shocking considering that when you add up the cost of replacement parts the cost to put one together yourself would be 3-4 times what Home Depot or Lowes sells them for new.

It's a racket. They know these mowers are subject to having this happen and instead of putting a guard or doing a re-design on them....they continue to make them and sell them to folks that have no idea how bad running a little plastic bag could be with a $4000 mower. I don't think they are indestructible but you would think they could handle a small bag and be able to eject it from the mower deck instead of sucking it up into the transmission.

The guy fixed his mower. The Card Company threatened to ruin his credit. They got a judgement against him. They have never collected a dime. The owner isn't back to work yet and quite possibly will end up on Social Security. Should he ever be able to go back to work....he will probably get garnished for the judgement amount.

Right now after all this time....the attempt to ruin his credit have failed. If they would negotiate with him....he would pay them a fair amount to make the debt go away and they would see some money come their way. As it is right now.....they will never see a dime and you and I will absorb the costs of the late fees and court costs the Card Company piled up on this guy. His credit rating is good enough to buy a $100,000 Home if he wanted to now but legally the Card Company can't touch him.

Should he go to jail? He still pays taxes on 5-10 properties and his mower is running like a top and he is very happy and has moved on. Other than the problem with this mower....he's a heck of a guy that asked people to treat him fairly and later realized no matter how much they would call and threaten him....he could ride that mower...send them pictures of himself riding it with a message of Merry Christmas on it in their pre-paid postage envelopes.

Ain't life grand? :D

Sometimes you can't fix stupid and IMO nobody in this case should go to jail.

His yard looks beautiful. I wish I could get him to take care of mine.

1. Was the plastic bag invisible?
2 The company is not trying to wreck his credit..he is wrecking his credit because he didn't pay his bills..
3. He paid four grand for a mower yet had no emergency savings?
4. Did he have any short term disability insurance?.
5. Refusing to make a payment because the mower was broke is not an acceptable reason to fail to make a payment...

[stoopified]

That's a good question, since in many cases they tend to sell off a lot of those delinquent accounts for pennies on the dollar at some point if they never get paid. I've seen instances where an account has been sold 5-6 times with collection agencies.Yeah, in 1992 I got divorced and my ex got one of our jointcredit cards and I got the other(with the higher debt of course),8months after the divorce was final I got a collection call over HER account.I had been unaware she could that accont open in both our names especially since she re-married a month after our divorce.Apparently she could and did. Long story short I had an attorney tell me she could declare bankruptcy in our shared name,go on with her life and stick me with the bills.His UNOFFICIAL advice? Do not help the CC company find her and they can't serve her,therfore they can't sue me because it was a joint account.He said just keep my good personal credit in line and ride it out.Well that was twenty years ago and apparently it worked because my rating is 750+ BUT I do still get a letter every couple of years from a collection agency offerring me settlement terms.......... yeah,like after 20 years of ignoring these letters I suddenly am going to pay.