A simple question for Liberals, progs, and other socialists

[Jerk]

Why am I responsible for paying for Ms Fluke's birth control?

[StoopTroup]

I think if you have teh sex with her....you should buy the condom every other time.

[diverdog]

Why am I responsible for paying for Ms Fluke's birth control?

Cause you are jerk. :)

[cleller]

It most be weighty, they had her take up time speaking at the DNC. Must be tough to find pressing issues going on with the country right now.

[StoopTroup]

It most be weighty, they had her take up time speaking at the DNC. Must be tough to find pressing issues going on with the country right now.

True but they are also pandering to the Women that got really POd about someone trying to pass a law or even making reference to making them have someone shove an ultra sound wand down their urethra. As a man....your gonna get a pretty good fight trying to do that to me....LMAO.

[XingTheRubicon]

isn't urethra the pee hole?


maybe we shouldn't be deciding this stuff

[TAFBSooner]

It's cheaper for the insurance company to pay for contraceptives than to pay for even an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth. So from the actuarial side of things the insurance companies are getting a break for every woman that uses contraception. You aren't paying for it.

As to why it's a pressing issue: if women don't have access to contraceptives, they don't have equal access to jobs. This applies to married women as well as single ones, BTW.

[XingTheRubicon]

that's all fine and good, but who in the hell is gonna make dinner

[StoopTroup]

isn't urethra the pee hole?


maybe we shouldn't be deciding this stuff

heh....kind of my point.

[TAFBSooner]

Second line of defense - I can make dinner.

First line of defense - my wife works harder than I do 7 - 5 (she teaches), and then makes dinner. I'm a very lucky beast.

[yermom]

did i miss the part where you were paying her insurance?

[StoopTroup]

Second line of defense - I can make dinner.

First line of defense - my wife works harder than I do 7 - 5 (she teaches), and then makes dinner. I'm a very lucky beast.

Sounds like you at least are aware of it. That's a good thing IMO.

Mine warmed up some Chili we had in the freezer only to find out the Fritos were stale. Thank God we had some crackers. :D

[Sooner5030]

It's cheaper for the insurance company to pay for contraceptives than to pay for even an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth. So from the actuarial side of things the insurance companies are getting a break for every woman that uses contraception. You aren't paying for it.

As to why it's a pressing issue: if women don't have access to contraceptives, they don't have equal access to jobs. This applies to married women as well as single ones, BTW.

If that is the case then why force insurance companies to provide bc.....let those that dont be darwin'd out of the system. If they can survive with not providing bc then your theory isn't as strong.

why do you hate freedom so much?

[SCOUT]

As to why it's a pressing issue: if women don't have access to contraceptives, they don't have equal access to jobs. This applies to married women as well as single ones, BTW.

I would like to hear more about how this is true.

[yermom]

she doesn't realistically get to choose her provider, and neither do i

[Sooner5030]

she doesn't realistically get to choose her provider, and neither do i

Who tied health insurance to employment? Not my fault....get a different job or purchase some additional coverage....or just buy bc yourself.....it is pretty cheap.

My point isn't so much that I don't want health insurance companies to provide bc. I want it to be the free choice of the insurer based on the agreement they make with the insured.

[yermom]

that's fine with me if i don't have my provider dictated to me by my employer

really, you think i'm going to change jobs solely because of the options of my insurance company? where do you live? do jobs just grow on trees? the girl in question was on a student health plan. she's supposed to change schools for that?

[soonercruiser]

1. It's cheaper for the insurance company to pay for contraceptives than to pay for even an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth. So from the actuarial side of things the insurance companies are getting a break for every woman that uses contraception. You aren't paying for it.

2. As to why it's a pressing issue: if women don't have access to contraceptives, they don't have equal access to jobs. This applies to married women as well as single ones, BTW.

Soooooo...by your logic,

#1 - So, whether or not for women to have children is simply a financial consideration???
It would be cheaper to just kill you now, no matter how old you are in order to save money for life-long healthcare.

#2 - Pressing Issue? Equal access to jobs???
Are women on contraceptives simply more "available" to their bosses??? More valuable???
You saying my wife isn't worth as much with kids than she is without? To who? You??
Sure as he11 not to me!
Or, are you saying that a working woman has more worth than a mother of a family??
Surely, employers don't have good, (re)productive mothers as employees???

Let's even throw out the moral argument for the time being, assuming that might apply to BOTH of us...
Do you have any medical idea of the effect that culture-wide use of contraceptives has had on woman's health....risk of heart attack, stroke, higher risk of certain types of cancer, sterility, obesity and Diabetes?

You are feeding the liberal progressive line to women, to the greeat detriment of their health and LONG-TERM healthcare costs. Did you speak at the DNC convention?
:upset:

[Sooner5030]

that's fine with me if i don't have my provider dictated to me by my employer

really, you think i'm going to change jobs solely because of the options of my insurance company? where do you live? do jobs just grow on trees? the girl in question was on a student health plan. she's supposed to change schools for that?

dude bc runs probably between $15 - 45 per month depending on your location and type. This is why insurance doesn't work. There's no reason to pool together for routine or preventive care.....especially when it's affordable. it probably cost about half of what they are paying for their phone bill.

[soonercruiser]

Bottom line.....sex is obviously Sandra Fluck's recreation.
I would like to have the gobment pay for my golf greens fees, as staying active keeps my chronic osteoarthritis at bay, and therefore helps keep down my healthcare costs.

Giving old men Viagra in retirement homes would even save money over funding good bed rails - in preventing old men from falling out of bed at night. Good idea Ms. Fluck??

[OUinFLA]

Abstinence is free.

[XingTheRubicon]

Abstinence is free.

You'll never get a standing ovation at the DNC.

[Midtowner]

Why am I responsible for paying for Ms Fluke's birth control?

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?

[FaninAma]

I actually met Ms. Fluke at my cousin's wedding in NY this summer. I thought there was something ironic about her drinking the free booze and helping herself to the 2 different meals served at the groom's reception my conservative Catholic uncle paid for.

Yes, she was a friend of the bride. And no, I didn't have the sex with her. Wouldn't have been tempted even if was I was single because she has a big caboose.

[OU_Sooners75]

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?

So now we are trying to compare something a human body has no control over, allergies, to that over something that can be controlled solely with human impluse contols?

Seriously?

Just stop midtowner. Birth control is not a mediical condition!!!

[FaninAma]

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?

One is a behavior that is under self-contol and the other is a medical condition that is not.

You can find insurance companies that will pay for birth control. It may cost you more but that is not what Ms. Fluke is after. She wants to force other policy holders to subsidize her birth control. Actually I don't think she really cares. Her biggest interest was to be a schill for the liberals in Congress with an anti-religious agenda.

[C&CDean]

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?

Dude, c'mon. Really?

[jk the sooner fan]

that's fine with me if i don't have my provider dictated to me by my employer

really, you think i'm going to change jobs solely because of the options of my insurance company? where do you live? do jobs just grow on trees? the girl in question was on a student health plan. she's supposed to change schools for that?

who forced her to go to a Catholic University?

[olevetonahill]

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?

Because you dont have to get neked and ****, You do however Have to Breath

[StoopTroup]

Why should we help pay for insulin for people who don't live healthy lives?

**** em!

Yeah....I don't believe that....but...hey I just thought I'd pile on.

[StoopTroup]

Why should insurance companies have to insure your kid with down syndrome or aspergers? It's not their fault you let your insurance lapse! You should have clubbed those baby seals as soon as they slid out of your cooch and the Insurance Company shouldn't have to pay the bill because you delivered a genetic mess.

Yeah I don't believe that but I thought I'd pile on.

Really? You have to breath?

[OU_Sooners75]

Why should we help pay for insulin for people who don't live healthy lives?

**** em!

Yeah....I don't believe that....but...hey I just thought I'd pile on.

Come on Greg...you know as well as I do that medical conditions are one thing. Also, not all those that have diabetes live an unhealthy life.

SO stop being a tool on this!

[OU_Sooners75]

Why should insurance companies have to insure your kid with down syndrome or aspergers? It's not their fault you let your insurance lapse! You should have clubbed those baby seals as soon as they slid out of your cooch and the Insurance Company shouldn't have to pay the bill because you delivered a genetic mess.

Yeah I don't believe that but I thought I'd pile on.

Really? You have to breath?


Why should we insure those that work hard and may get their backs hurt and never be the same? Why should the insurance pay for the meds that will ultimately change the persona of the person taking them? Why does insurance exist?

"Yeah, I don't believe that but I thought I'd pile on.

Really, you have back problems?"

[LiveLaughLove]

Why should an insurance company treat birth control differently from allergies?
because it is.

[LiveLaughLove]

who forced her to go to a Catholic University?
Nothing. She chose that University specifically for this battle. He first battle actually was about getting them to pay for sex change operations. It switched to birth control when Obama mandated it and the Catholics fought it.

She wasn't merely at the right place at the right time. She was an advocate that was in search of an advocacy. Do you think Pelosi found her just by chance? No chance.

[LiveLaughLove]

Why should insurance companies have to insure your kid with down syndrome or aspergers? It's not their fault you let your insurance lapse! You should have clubbed those baby seals as soon as they slid out of your cooch and the Insurance Company shouldn't have to pay the bill because you delivered a genetic mess.

Yeah I don't believe that but I thought I'd pile on.

Really? You have to breath?

Eventually, it will be heading this direction thanks to socialized medicine. Women will be shamed in to aborting babies with these miladies, lest the state be burdened by them.

[olevetonahill]

Why should insurance companies have to insure your kid with down syndrome or aspergers? It's not their fault you let your insurance lapse! You should have clubbed those baby seals as soon as they slid out of your cooch and the Insurance Company shouldn't have to pay the bill because you delivered a genetic mess.

Yeah I don't believe that but I thought I'd pile on.

Really? You have to breath?

Well I guess YOU could try and stop, Dont think it will werk out for ya very well tho.

[jk the sooner fan]

Well I guess YOU could try and stop, Dont think it will werk out for ya very well tho.

hey dont be so quick to discourage him ;)

[olevetonahill]

hey dont be so quick to discourage him ;)

Maybe he givin it a shot now.

[jk the sooner fan]

Maybe he givin it a shot now.

:D he hasn't posted in a bit has he?

[olevetonahill]

:D he hasn't posted in a bit has he?

Maybe retired again

[OU_Sooners75]

Everyone is piling on him, so he took his ball and went home again....AKA Retired.

[jk the sooner fan]

Everyone is piling on him, so he took his ball and went home again....AKA Retired.

i'm not sure where that happened in other threads - but he kind of brought the stupid on himself in this one

[OU_Sooners75]

i'm not sure where that happened in other threads - but he kind of brought the stupid on himself in this one

Just like many other threads he gets deeply involved with here lately.

[yermom]

it's cheaper to pay for the pill than it would be for pregnancy and baby stuff isn't it?

[StoopTroup]

Come on Greg...you know as well as I do that medical conditions are one thing. Also, not all those that have diabetes live an unhealthy life.

SO stop being a tool on this!

A tool? This crap has been going on since birth control became available and it's been paid for by insurance. Now someone is going to try and not allow the poor to get it but then bitch about why there is so many peoplle on Welfare?

As a Catholic....I understand the Church's view...but many of us think it's something that is our own personal choice and we choose to keep things like this to ourselves and handle it via Confession for instance or like I said keep it to ourselves. I understand the Church's feeling on offering a Health Plan to their employees that allows them to get birth control with a co-payment or even might be 100% covered. We are completely against abortion. So much so that I personally know two families who knew their child had Downs Syndrome before their child was at the end of the 1st Trimester and now they have a very loving wonderful child. It has changed their lives in ways that I can't even begin to express with words. They have beautiful kids. It is amazing. It's a choice that I was never faced with. I hold them in high regard.

A tool you say.

[olevetonahill]

Lead on , we will follow

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/files/resize/remote/7fc7a02a4f69b8e5aa61c52ea5335644-351x300.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Maybe retired again

I'm not glued to this thing. I get busy sometimes. Yesterday for instance....I got a new phone. I was at the computer most of the day. So you saw me post quite a bit. Tonight I have a Daughter in the band performing at the Football Game. Awhile ago I went to pick up my Son from School. Tomorrow he and the Rest of the Webelos in our Den the Wife and I are Leaders of will go to his campout. I might not be on as the signal out there is about as bad as the one you get driving to your shack.

I'm not retired again. Just busy.

Man this site is slow. If Tim spent a little more time fixing things instead of being judgemental....would things run smoother?

I know you know I think everyone ought to be able to get the medications they need.

Even if a guy isn't gonna be able to have children again and he can't keep his ding dong going....I think he should be able to get the medications he needs to help him have an intimate moment with his Wife for instance. I saw where it also helps keeps you from having an adema if you are in an area where the air is thin. Lots of medications are used for one thing and later found to be useful for others.

[East Coast Bias]

Lead on , we will follow

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/files/resize/remote/7fc7a02a4f69b8e5aa61c52ea5335644-351x300.jpg

That's not you, right, vet? And how does that thing work?

[StoopTroup]

That's not you, right, vet? And how does that thing work?

I think you put the Viagra in the beer and then once the beer is gone and the air gets thin....you don't black out. It's kind of a take on that David Carradine thing I would guess. If the pebble falls from his hand....drag him to fresh air immediately. :D

[Mississippi Sooner]

That's an impressive set of melons.

[StoopTroup]

lol

[Midtowner]

So now we are trying to compare something a human body has no control over, allergies, to that over something that can be controlled solely with human impluse contols?

Seriously?

Just stop midtowner. Birth control is not a mediical condition!!!

Is having a period something a woman has a choice about? Menstrual cramps? Acne? PMDD? Polycistic Ovary Syndrome? Endometriosis? Amenorrhea? Heavy menstrual periods? These things ain't just used for contraception y'know.

And while we're at it, our healthcare plan provides treatment for erectile disfunction. How many threads have there been on that? I know..I know olevet, it's for a legitimate medical condition...

[Midtowner]

Eventually, it will be heading this direction thanks to socialized medicine. Women will be shamed in to aborting babies with these miladies, lest the state be burdened by them.

Since we can't constitutionally sterilize women even after their 16th meth baby, I don't think this is a rational fear.

[yermom]

I'm not glued to this thing. I get busy sometimes. Yesterday for instance....I got a new phone. I was at the computer most of the day. So you saw me post quite a bit. Tonight I have a Daughter in the band performing at the Football Game. Awhile ago I went to pick up my Son from School. Tomorrow he and the Rest of the Webelos in our Den the Wife and I are Leaders of will go to his campout. I might not be on as the signal out there is about as bad as the one you get driving to your shack.

I'm not retired again. Just busy.

Man this site is slow. If Tim spent a little more time fixing things instead of being judgemental....would things run smoother?

I know you know I think everyone ought to be able to get the medications they need.

Even if a guy isn't gonna be able to have children again and he can't keep his ding dong going....I think he should be able to get the medications he needs to help him have an intimate moment with his Wife for instance. I saw where it also helps keeps you from having an adema if you are in an area where the air is thin. Lots of medications are used for one thing and later found to be useful for others.

Well, Viagra was initially a heart medication.

[StoopTroup]

Well, Viagra was initially a heart medication.

yep.

[StoopTroup]

Since we can't constitutionally sterilize women even after their 16th meth baby, I don't think this is a rational fear.

Yeah. I just don't get that either. Our Church created a type of self help group where Women who had had an Abortion could get together and discuss what they went through and help to do something about the heavy weight and guilt that many of them had carried for years. So many of them felt that they couldn't even ask for forgiveness. Most of them had never ever had another one.

The number of Women LLL is worried about might be huge, it might be small for all I know but just throwing it out without any legitimate statistics seems pretty irrational to me also.

[OU_Sooners75]

Is having a period something a woman has a choice about? Menstrual cramps? Acne? PMDD? Polycistic Ovary Syndrome? Endometriosis? Amenorrhea? Heavy menstrual periods? These things ain't just used for contraception y'know.

And while we're at it, our healthcare plan provides treatment for erectile disfunction. How many threads have there been on that? I know..I know olevet, it's for a legitimate medical condition...

Well considering we are talking about birth control then nothing you said is relevant to the discussion. And for someone trying to compare a medical condition like allergies to that of human impulse and control like having sex, is just blantantly ignorant or just trying to be a spinmaster.

That said, I'm all for medical treatments being covered. But why birth control?

If a person, woman or man, so worried about birth control then they need to either...

1. Not have sex
2. Go buy some condoms
3. Get snipped.
4. Use spermicides
5. Use birth control pills.

The most expensive thing I listed is #3.

Birth control shouldn't be something forced to be covered by insurance companies. If a insurance company wishes to cover it, then so be it. But there shouldn't be a mandate saying a insurance company has to cover it.

[StoopTroup]

If you are for Treatments....why not medications which is much cheaper?

What about Women who have had a baby and the baby and Mother nearly died during Child Birth? Should they have to pay for a medication that would allow them to have a healthy sex life after such a traumatic end to their pregnancy? With so many Women suffering Post Partum Depression it would seem that getting them back to a normal sex life and being able to love their Husband without fear of having another Baby that the Doctor had told her...."The next one might kill you"?

I mean...I know you think you have something with this idea that all Women are able to control their urges to bang you but....God tried to tell Adam and Eve to just enjoy the Garden. They couldn't do it either.

[OU_Sooners75]

If you are for Treatments....why not medications which is much cheaper?

Like I said greg. It shouldn't be up to the government to tell the insurance companies what to cover and what not to.

Hell I had a company covering me that wouldn't cover my alergy medicine. I elected to cancel that coverage and choose another company at the same cost as I was paying before through my employer.

I'm just for smaller government and allowing comapnies and individuals to decide what they want to do.

[StoopTroup]

Like I said greg. It shouldn't be up to the government to tell the insurance companies what to cover and what not to.

Hell I had a company covering me that wouldn't cover my alergy medicine. I elected to cancel that coverage and choose another company at the same cost as I was paying before through my employer.

I'm just for smaller government and allowing comapnies and individuals to decide what they want to do.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I do realize that many folks continue to argue about what that document means. The ones all worried about money and how it's spent always seem to be very passionate about things that they think are very crucial to their cause. I think you'll see in this election, Women will go to the polls and use the polls to explain their argument.

[olevetonahill]

That's not you, right, vet? And how does that thing work?

Not Me, ST was saying somepun about being a leader er some shat

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Why am I responsible for paying for Ms Fluke's birth control?

Because if you don't pay, you'll have to subsidize her kid's in-state college tuition.

[Midtowner]

Well considering we are talking about birth control then nothing you said is relevant to the discussion. And for someone trying to compare a medical condition like allergies to that of human impulse and control like having sex, is just blantantly ignorant or just trying to be a spinmaster.

That said, I'm all for medical treatments being covered. But why birth control?

If a person, woman or man, so worried about birth control then they need to either...

1. Not have sex
2. Go buy some condoms
3. Get snipped.
4. Use spermicides
5. Use birth control pills.

The most expensive thing I listed is #3.

Birth control shouldn't be something forced to be covered by insurance companies. If a insurance company wishes to cover it, then so be it. But there shouldn't be a mandate saying a insurance company has to cover it.

Great. Not responsive in the least.

I gave you several things birth control treats which have nothing to do with contraception. Those things are exactly like allergies. You can't stop heavy menstrual cramps by abstaining from sex. If you think that, you're a moron. Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Endometriosis... you haven't answered the question. Why birth control? It is the best treatment for those conditions. It is less expensive than alternatives and it has fewer side effects. But yeah... a woman who takes birth control to treat polycystic ovary syndrome is probably a whore and should be ashamed of herself.

In that sense, it is just like allergy meds and I still haven't heard you condemn the fact that insurance companies are forced to pay for your viagra pills.

--but your E.D. is a serious illness, right?

[okie52]

Because if you don't pay, you'll have to subsidize her kid's in-state college tuition.

Indeed!

[TAFBSooner]

Soooooo...by your logic,

#1 - So, whether or not for women to have children is simply a financial consideration???
It would be cheaper to just kill you now, no matter how old you are in order to save money for life-long healthcare.

As I said, "from the actuarial side of things." That has to do with the financial point of view of the insurance company. Of course there are many other sides to a couple's decision on whether to have children, when, and how many. But the point is that neither employers nor policy holders are "paying" for birth control - the insurance company is getting a marginally lower cost of doing business.




#2 - Pressing Issue? Equal access to jobs???
Are women on contraceptives simply more "available" to their bosses??? More valuable???
You saying my wife isn't worth as much with kids than she is without? To who? You??
Sure as he11 not to me!
Or, are you saying that a working woman has more worth than a mother of a family??
Surely, employers don't have good, (re)productive mothers as employees???


I sure wasn't going there as far as sexually "available." But women who can control their own fertility are more available for work. Women who can choose when to have children have more control over their careers. Women didn't invent the "mommy track," but they do have to live with it.

Lots of mothers are successful both as moms and in the working world. I never said otherwise. I said they don't have equal access to jobs. Also, I didn't use the word or idea of "worth."



Let's even throw out the moral argument for the time being, assuming that might apply to BOTH of us...

Do you have any medical idea of the effect that culture-wide use of contraceptives has had on woman's health....risk of heart attack, stroke, higher risk of certain types of cancer, sterility, obesity and Diabetes?

You are feeding the liberal progressive line to women, to the greeat detriment of their health and LONG-TERM healthcare costs. Did you speak at the DNC convention?
:upset:

Source, please.