Really? No Shat? US Strikes on Iran Would Risk Major War

[olevetonahill]

What genius decided this would happen?
What a bunch of Dumbasses

http://news.yahoo.com/report-us-strikes-iran-risk-major-war-023148627.html

[Curly Bill]

Sometimes they do reports just for the sake of doing reports. In this case to tell us something anyone with half a brain already knew.

[olevetonahill]

Sometimes they do reports just for the sake of doing reports. In this case to tell us something anyone with half a brain already knew.

:encouragement:

[cleller]

I saw that headline and couldn't believe it either. I don't know which is more ridiculous; the report, or reporting on the report.

[olevetonahill]

I saw that headline and couldn't believe it either. I don't know which is more ridiculous; the report, or reporting on the report.

Did ya read it?
Some general er some shat said It wouldnt do any good cause ya cant Kill knowledge. No shat dick ****in Tracy. But ya can dayum sure skeer the ****ers into NEVER tryin to use i again.

[Curly Bill]

We have in fact killed knowledge, or maybe it was Israel, but some of the scientists working on their nuke program have in fact been kilt!

[olevetonahill]

We have in fact killed knowledge, or maybe it was Israel, but some of the scientists working on their nuke program have in fact been kilt!

:tickled_pink:

[Soonerjeepman]

"Early drafts of the report were coordinated by the nonpartisan Iran Project, a private group funded in part by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, a philanthropy that promotes peace and democracy."

not that I'm a war monger nor do I disagree with the article...but this says a lot. Unfortunately SOMETIMES the other side doesn't believe in peace and democracy.

[SoonerProphet]

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/iran-the-neconservative-fantasyland-7452?page=1

[olevetonahill]

And of course the Left comes swoopin in to EXPLAIN it to us
We not arguing with the premise, Just statin the stupidity of the Head line

[FaninAma]

I would invite whoever Iran wants to send over for a face to face visit with the the President and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and I would give him a tour of our main nuclear control centers in Crystal Mountain or SAC headquartes in Omaha and I would make a point of showing him specifically how many long-range bombers and ICBM's are pointed at Baghdad should they ever attack anybody with a nuclear weapon. And for emphasis I would park a cruise missile class destroyer off the coast of Iran. If they intend to use their nuclear weapon in a suicidal blaze of glory nobody is going to stop them. Personally, I don't think they are suicidal.

[rock on sooner]

I would invite whoever Iran wants to send over for a face to face visit with the the President and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and I would give him a tour of our main nuclear control centers in Crystal Mountain or SAC headquartes in Omaha and I would make a point of showing him specifically how many long-range bombers and ICBM's are pointed at Baghdad should they ever attack anybody with a nuclear weapon. And for emphasis I woul d park a cruise missile class destroyer off the coast off of the coast of Iran. If they intend to use their nuclear weapon in a suicidal blaze of glory nobody is going to stop them. Personally, I don't think they are suicidal.

That's all well and good but why Baghdad and not Teheran? Jus askin..

[FaninAma]

That's all well and good but why Baghdad and not Teheran? Jus askin..

LOL. I actually meant Teheran. I guess that's why you don't want me plotting in the coordinates of the bombers or ICBM's.

[rock on sooner]

LOL. I actually meant Teheran. I guess that's why you don't want me plotting in the coordinates of the bombers or ICBM's.

Heh...as long as you give all the friendlies advanced warning, sheets
of glass in both places might give the rest of 'em food for thought..

[soonercruiser]

........retired Army Lt. Gen. Frank Kearney....

You can always find an "opinion" to match almost any agenda.
But, if Iran's extremist right wing gets the bomb.....what's the chance that they would actually use it in a way that they have already openly said/pledged that they would....eliminate the Zionists from the face of the Earth!

Sooooo.....we wait for it to happen????
Does little Israel wait for it to happen???
Just even one bomb in a truck and most of Israel is uninhabitable!
This scenario would affect ALL OF THE ME....and thus negatively affect our national security.

I think that the timing of this report is suspect!
At this point......where Israel is trying to have the meeting with Obama to clue him in on what must happen since diplomacy has failed with Iran.....Obama either jumps in to assist Israel (this would actually help his international reputation)........or, he hunkers down, doesn't openly aid Israel on any strike on Iran, and cranks up the LW propaganda Media to justify not helping them.

Sounds like what this report is trying to do?
I think that we will see a lot of diplomatic dancing on all sides in the next several months.
:upset:

[8timechamps]

I suspect Israel has already planned and trained for a strike on Iran's facilities. At this point, only the US is keeping the Israelis from acting on that plan. For how much longer is the question.

Israel is not going to wait for Iran to weaponize their nuclear program.

[Midtowner]

I would invite whoever Iran wants to send over for a face to face visit with the the President and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and I would give him a tour of our main nuclear control centers in Crystal Mountain or SAC headquartes in Omaha and I would make a point of showing him specifically how many long-range bombers and ICBM's are pointed at Baghdad should they ever attack anybody with a nuclear weapon. And for emphasis I woul d park a cruise missile class destroyer off the coast off of the coast of Iran. If they intend to use their nuclear weapon in a suicidal blaze of glory nobody is going to stop them. Personally, I don't think they are suicidal.

Geography fail.

[rock on sooner]

I suspect Israel has already planned and trained for a strike on Iran's facilities. At this point, only the US is keeping the Israelis from acting on that plan. For how much longer is the question.

Israel is not going to wait for Iran to weaponize their nuclear program.

8x, absolutely no doubt that the Isrealis have a very thorough and devestating
first strike plan, as well as subsequent followup action. Unless they are successful,
verified successful, and effectively decapitate the Iranian military, then what will
follow is something I dread and don't really want to comtemplate. The Iranian
military is a little more than 1.2 million (counting reserves) and the Isrealis have
about 750000. The Isrealis are much better armed..2 to 1 in aircraft and almost
2 to 1 in tanks. The Isrealis would undoubtedly destroy the Iranian navy..a la
Pearl Harbor and take out command and control while doing their best to destroy
the nuclear facilities. All this points to an Isreali victory, similar to the Seven Day
War in '67. The big gorilla, though, in my view, is whether or not other Arab states
and Russia stay out of it. If they do, then it's all hunky dorey, if they don't, then,
well, that's what I don't want to comtemplate.

[XingTheRubicon]

Timing fail.


LOL. I actually meant Teheran. I guess that's why you don't want me plotting in the coordinates of the bombers or ICBM's.

[cleller]

I suspect Israel has already planned and trained for a strike on Iran's facilities. At this point, only the US is keeping the Israelis from acting on that plan. For how much longer is the question.

Israel is not going to wait for Iran to weaponize their nuclear program.

For sure, the only question is whether or not they can get us to support them.

[ouwasp]

I would invite whoever Iran wants to send over for a face to face visit with the the President and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and I would give him a tour of our main nuclear control centers in Crystal Mountain or SAC headquartes in Omaha and I would make a point of showing him specifically how many long-range bombers and ICBM's are pointed at Baghdad should they ever attack anybody with a nuclear weapon. And for emphasis I woul d park a cruise missile class destroyer off the coast off of the coast of Iran. If they intend to use their nuclear weapon in a suicidal blaze of glory nobody is going to stop them. Personally, I don't think they are suicidal.

See, the thing is, if they really buy into the idea of the 12th Mahdi (Shiite messiah), then part of the deal is martyrdom, or at least the earth has to be in dire straits for the 12th Mahdi to appear... so it may not be a "rational" mindset that is making policy for Iran... and one can't blame Israel for expecting the worst.

[SoonerProphet]

See, the thing is, if they really buy into the idea of the 12th Mahdi (Shiite messiah), then part of the deal is martyrdom, or at least the earth has to be in dire straits for the 12th Mahdi to appear... so it may not be a "rational" mindset that is making policy for Iran... and one can't blame Israel for expecting the worst.

If this were a true point why would they have waited for so long? Why have they not exhaused themselves with outright aggression against Israel? Why did they end conflict with Iraq. If they were the suicidal maniacs then what are they waiting for?

[8timechamps]

8x, absolutely no doubt that the Isrealis have a very thorough and devestating
first strike plan, as well as subsequent followup action. Unless they are successful,
verified successful, and effectively decapitate the Iranian military, then what will
follow is something I dread and don't really want to comtemplate. The Iranian
military is a little more than 1.2 million (counting reserves) and the Isrealis have
about 750000. The Isrealis are much better armed..2 to 1 in aircraft and almost
2 to 1 in tanks. The Isrealis would undoubtedly destroy the Iranian navy..a la
Pearl Harbor and take out command and control while doing their best to destroy
the nuclear facilities. All this points to an Isreali victory, similar to the Seven Day
War in '67. The big gorilla, though, in my view, is whether or not other Arab states
and Russia stay out of it. If they do, then it's all hunky dorey, if they don't, then,
well, that's what I don't want to comtemplate.

I fear the same. Israel is ready to make the first strike, but I don't think they are ready for the blowback. Well, maybe they are and that's why they haven't acted. Because you and I both know if Israel sees retaliation from any of the bog boys, we're on deck.

[8timechamps]

If this were a true point why would they have waited for so long? Why have they not exhaused themselves with outright aggression against Israel? Why did they end conflict with Iraq. If they were the suicidal maniacs then what are they waiting for?

This is a very good point. I think it's because human beings, by nature, are afraid of death. Sure, you have a few bat-**** crazy nutjobs that will strap a vest loaded with C4 and walk into a crowd, but by and large, people don't want to die.

[SoonerProphet]

This is a very good point. I think it's because human beings, by nature, are afraid of death. Sure, you have a few bat-**** crazy nutjobs that will strap a vest loaded with C4 and walk into a crowd, but by and large, people don't want to die.

Exactly, you didn't see OBL or KSM or a litany of other "leaders" f themselves. Nope, the proxy it out to zealots, the young, and feeble minded loonys.

[FaninAma]

Exactly, you didn't see OBL or KSM or a litany of other "leaders" f themselves. Nope, the proxy it out to zealots, the young, and feeble minded loonys.

I have often wondered what the real goal of the Iranian leaders is. I suspect they understand that the total destruction of Israel is not an acceptable or achievable outcome. So what are they really after? I think it is for the West ot withdraw from the region so the Shiites and Sunnis can continue their unimpeded blood feud for domination of the Middle East with Mecca being the ultimate prize.

[C&CDean]

Can you imagine fighting to the death with the prize being a filthy wasteland of a city in the desert? Jeez.

[BigTip]

I read an article that said one of the lessons learned from the 20th century is to believe crazy people when they say they are going to do something crazy. One of those things being crazy Hitler telling the German people that he will wipe out the Jewish population.
Israel learned that lesson well. They are not going to sit around thinking that Iran is saying they are going to do crazy stuff but won't really do crazy stuff.
If somebody comes at me with a knife saying, "I am going to kill you!" I can shoot them and not be charged with anything, even though they did not cut me.

I also read an article that said if Obama is behind in the polls with a week or two to go to the election, he will endorse an Israel action. Then all of a sudden the election won't be about the economy but about war. It made sense.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Can you imagine fighting to the death with the prize being a filthy wasteland of a city in the desert? Jeez.
We already did that, Mexican-American War.

[diverdog]

8x, absolutely no doubt that the Isrealis have a very thorough and devestating
first strike plan, as well as subsequent followup action. Unless they are successful,
verified successful, and effectively decapitate the Iranian military, then what will
follow is something I dread and don't really want to comtemplate. The Iranian
military is a little more than 1.2 million (counting reserves) and the Isrealis have
about 750000. The Isrealis are much better armed..2 to 1 in aircraft and almost
2 to 1 in tanks. The Isrealis would undoubtedly destroy the Iranian navy..a la
Pearl Harbor and take out command and control while doing their best to destroy
the nuclear facilities. All this points to an Isreali victory, similar to the Seven Day
War in '67. The big gorilla, though, in my view, is whether or not other Arab states
and Russia stay out of it. If they do, then it's all hunky dorey, if they don't, then,
well, that's what I don't want to comtemplate.

rock:

Here is the deal. I think Israel has a plan but they have no confidence it will work and they want to drag us into a war. We should not bite.

To take out Iranian nuclear facilities is a real nightmare even for the US. The three biggest problems center around how well Iran has insulated each facility from an attack. Iran has developed some of the best cement technology in the world after it found that commercial cement could not handle the frequent earthquakes that plague Iran. This cement technology is something that the US and Israel has not faced and it presents a very hard problem for our planners. http://www.economist.com/node/21548918

Secondly, all of the facilities are spread out and have multiple entrance points. Iran has bought advanced air defense technology in the past two years and many of these facilities are heavily defended. The chances of taking them all out is slim to none.

Third, the major sites are deeply buried. None of our current bunker buster bombs can reach the depth to destroy these facilities. That is not to say we are not developing this weapon but so far I have not heard of anything that can get down as deep as we need and this includes the new version of rocket assisted bombs.

Bombing Iran presents a lot of other problems. Israel will have to cross not so friendly territory to hit the targets in Iran. It will require in flight refueling and multiple entrance and exit points. Israel does not possess the capability of long range heavy bombers nor can they sustain around the clock long range bombing missions. Only the US has this ability. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/12/us-iran-nuclear-strike-idUSTRE80B0WM20120112

The biggest problem is what happens after the raid and it will not be a 7 day war. I hate to put it this way but anyone who thinks as much is a fool. Iran will fight an asymmetrical war. They have 50,000 terrorist that they will unleash across the world. The army can fight Israel to a standstill because Israel will have to support their army over a very long distance. And then that begs the question what is the end point because Israel cannot occupy Iran. Iran will also use its proxies in a fight against Israel and the rest of the world. It will be decades before we can hope for any kind of peace short of a full scale occupation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17261265

I want to be clear, a war with Iran will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a walk in the park. The vast majority of Iran's population is not radicalized and we have time. The younger generation is pro-western and I think we should work with groups inside of Iran to moderate their plans.

Most people do not know that Israel possesses nuclear capable subs. They have both a first and second strike capability. The best deterrent and a viable option is to arm Israel with even better nuclear weapons. Get them up to a 1000 or so warheads (covertly) which would be more than enough to destroy their enemies. We could also let it be known through leaks and back channels that we have positioned our sub forces in such a way that we could also hit Iran in under 30 minutes. The combination of overwhelming first strike capability would back off the Iranian leadership from thinking about a nuclear strike. It would be far cheaper and pose a smaller risk.

[SoonerProphet]

I have often wondered what the real goal of the Iranian leaders is. I suspect they understand that the total destruction of Israel is not an acceptable or achievable outcome. So what are they really after? I think it is for the West ot withdraw from the region so the Shiites and Sunnis can continue their unimpeded blood feud for domination of the Middle East with Mecca being the ultimate prize.

Demographically speaking, Israel has some long term sustainability issues. They are simply falling behind in birthrates. As far as the national interests of Iran are concerned, it seems the government will continue to hold to its ideological shiism, export its brand of dogma as far as it can, and work its "non-aligned" angle to whomever it can. I agree a Sunni Shia regional conflict is a possiblity. There are also many other factors in the region. It has a large Azeri population, Kurds, they along with Pakistan will inherit the f*cked Afghan situation, and of course it's ability to assert itself into Iraq.

http://nationalinterest.org/article/all-the-ayatollahs-men-7344?page=1

[rock on sooner]

Demographically speaking, Israel has some long term sustainability issues. They are simply falling behind in birthrates. As far as the national interests of Iran are concerned, it seems the government will continue to hold to its ideological shiism, export its brand of dogma as far as it can, and work its "non-aligned" angle to whomever it can. I agree a Sunni Shia regional conflict is a possiblity. There are also many other factors in the region. It has a large Azeri population, Kurds, they along with Pakistan will inherit the f*cked Afghan situation, and of course it's ability to assert itself into Iraq.

http://nationalinterest.org/article/all-the-ayatollahs-men-7344?page=1

DD, I agree with your analysis, with one exception, IF the Israelis strike (big IF)
it will be with as much force as is possible to bring conventionaly a "shock and awe"
that Iraq could not have dreamed about. This is from the "Six" not "Seven" that
I spike about earlier, War. I'm convinced that they have have looked at all those
issues. As much as the Isrealis have been "persecuted" over the centuries, I think
they'll leave nothing to chance, and, YUP, we'll be in it big time. May God have
mercy on us all, if this comes about.

[rock on sooner]

Aw crap, I hit the wrong post, should have been #30. Sorry, lost some effect..

[rock on sooner]

Isreal is reported to have upwards of 400 nukes. Just a thot...would they
use any of 'em, IF, Iran got carried away?

[StoopTroup]

What was that flash?

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nuclear-explosion.jpg

[olevetonahill]

What was that flash?

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nuclear-explosion.jpg

u

[StoopTroup]

.

[diverdog]

DD, I agree with your analysis, with one exception, IF the Israelis strike (big IF)
it will be with as much force as is possible to bring conventionaly a "shock and awe"
that Iraq could not have dreamed about. This is from the "Six" not "Seven" that
I spike about earlier, War. I'm convinced that they have have looked at all those
issues. As much as the Isrealis have been "persecuted" over the centuries, I think
they'll leave nothing to chance, and, YUP, we'll be in it big time. May God have
mercy on us all, if this comes about.

Rock:

They just do not have the ability to do a shock and awe campaign that far from home. As far as I know Israel does not have anything like B-52's, B-1's and B-2 bombers. I remember watching a bombing raid by a B-52 thinking that hell could be no worse than being on the receiving end of an arc light strike. Israel's main strike fighter is an F-15 with a bomb capacity of 23000 pounds. The B-1 fully fitted can carry up to 125,000 pounds although it will mostly carry 75000 pounds. Only our biggest bombers can carry the MOAB.

One way to take out the facilities is drop anthrax on them. But I doubt Israel would do something like that since it would bring the wrath of the world down on them.

Watch this video from the former head of the Mossad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrQDnqtS2gQ&feature=fvwrel

[StoopTroup]

I think I've seen that 60 Minutes piece 3 times now.

I understand what he is saying and he's trying to take time to get them to stop before there is a Holy War over it. He thinks he can do it but he's not in charge is my worry.

[ouwasp]

If this were a true point why would they have waited for so long? Why have they not exhaused themselves with outright aggression against Israel? Why did they end conflict with Iraq. If they were the suicidal maniacs then what are they waiting for?

They (Iran) want The Bomb so they can take out Tel Aviv. They wanna be able to play with the big boys and usher in their rock star...

[TAFBSooner]

The takeaway is that what pols say in public is probably not what they're saying to each other.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/war-and-bluff-iran-israel-and-united-states

[rock on sooner]

Rock:

They just do not have the ability to do a shock and awe campaign that far from home. As far as I know Israel does not have anything like B-52's, B-1's and B-2 bombers. I remember watching a bombing raid by a B-52 thinking that hell could be no worse than being on the receiving end of an arc light strike. Israel's main strike fighter is an F-15 with a bomb capacity of 23000 pounds. The B-1 fully fitted can carry up to 125,000 pounds although it will mostly carry 75000 pounds. Only our biggest bombers can carry the MOAB.

One way to take out the facilities is drop anthrax on them. But I doubt Israel would do something like that since it would bring the wrath of the world down on them.

Watch this video from the former head of the Mossad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrQDnqtS2gQ&feature=fvwrel

Diver, that man is supremely confident. My guess (and it is only that) is that he
still has his fingers involved. My belief is that even though he says he's retired, he
isn't and that he has access. Your military assessment seems more accurate than my
thought process. However, I believe that there are things they can do that Jane's Weapons
or Rock on's fantasy has no clue about. I simply would not nor could not bet against them.
If there has been a more persecuted people in history, I don't know about it. And, because
of that, I'm fairly certain that no one wants to tangle with them. That said, I also believe
they are rational and do not want to do anything other than exist, peacefully, in the region.
BUT, don't tug on Superman's cape.

With all the bluster, please, dear Lord, let reasonable men prevail.

[AlboSooner]

We need to stop fighting Israel's wars.

[ouwasp]

To me, the real question is why is PM Netanyahu waiting? He's an intelligent man. By now he must realize the US is NOT going to aid Israel (presently). That may change on Jan 20.

Or it may not.

But if his nation's survival is truly at stake, he's wasting time hoping for BHO to help.

[diverdog]

To me, the real question is why is PM Netanyahu waiting? He's an intelligent man. By now he must realize the US is NOT going to aid Israel (presently). That may change on Jan 20.

Or it may not.

But if his nation's survival is truly at stake, he's wasting time hoping for BHO to help.

Have you been reading any of these threads, or watched the video or read the links? Most experts think Israel cannot pull this off unless they have developed some sort of secret weapon. Most indications is that they have not. Israel taking out Iran's nuclear facilities is nothing more than a pipe dream. The US's chance for success is not a whole lot better. We could do it but it would be very very costly.

[diverdog]

We need to stop fighting Israel's wars.

+1

[StoopTroup]

+2

I think we should defend them if they get themselves in something they shouldn't have though. Of course that has some stipulations but if they were to get an *** kicking and not come to us to avoid annihilation...It would be pretty tense here at Home.

Movie Prices would go sky high. ;)

[soonercruiser]

We need to stop fighting Israel's wars.

How is it not "our war" too...albeit indirectly...or rather eventually coming to our own shores?
That has been taught in at least two WWs.

[BigTip]

How is it not "our war" too...albeit indirectly...or rather eventually coming to our own shores?
That has been taught in at least two WWs.

Exactly.
I thought we were in Afghanistan for this idea, taking the war on terror to foreign shores, to prevent them from coming to ours. Same thing for this Iran situation. They say they want to wipe out Israel. Their leadership has publicly said this about the USA too. "Death to America". Why wait for them to do what they are saying out loud?

[diverdog]

Exactly.
I thought we were in Afghanistan for this idea, taking the war on terror to foreign shores, to prevent them from coming to ours. Same thing for this Iran situation. They say they want to wipe out Israel. Their leadership has publicly said this about the USA too. "Death to America". Why wait for them to do what they are saying out loud?

So what? It is all saber rattling. They are not going to nuke Israel.

You guys bitch about the debt and taxes. We will never get that under control if we keep fighting wars. Our military has been fighting for 22 years now. It is time we stop.

I will not send my two boys to fight for Israel.

[okie52]

I will not send my two boys to fight for Israel.

Well that would be their choice wouldn't it Diver?

[cleller]

So what? It is all saber rattling. They are not going to nuke Israel.

.

This seems to be getting little attention. When Iran gets a nuke, do you think they'd use it?

I don't know if they would or not.

[BigTip]

So what? It is all saber rattling. They are not going to nuke Israel.


This is what Germany's Jewish population said it the 1930's. "Hitler is just ranting to get support. He would never actually try and annihilate us. I'm staying."

Israel has historical precedents in learning to believe that crazy people will do what they say they are going to do.

[FaninAma]

So what? It is all saber rattling. They are not going to nuke Israel.

You guys bitch about the debt and taxes. We will never get that under control if we keep fighting wars. Our military has been fighting for 22 years now. It is time we stop.

I will not send my two boys to fight for Israel.

I agree. Constant war and crisis is a cover for the power elitie to invoke the claim of national security so they can continue to operate in secrecy and keep policy decisions from the average American. Anybody who thinks we are in the Middle East primarily for national security and not economic reasons is naive.

[diverdog]

Well that would be their choice wouldn't it Diver?

Okie:

A war with Iran would require the draft. We are far to eager to go to war. Tell me what is the end game in Iran?

[8timechamps]

We're not going to do anything to Iran first. The only way we get involved with Iran is if they strike Israel.

As for "fighting for Israel", I fought for Kuwait. I'm proud as hell that I did. The people of Kuwait (not specifically the public figures, the every-day folks) are great people. I never, not once, thought "why am I fighting Kuwait's battle?". And, to my knowledge, nobody else I fought with had those feelings.

Like it, or not, the United States is the world's leader. We set the tone for the human rights struggle. I could care less about going in and removing a dictator, unless the mass populace was being persecuted. It's sad that we are one of the very few countries that will stand up for those things, but we are.

[diverdog]

We're not going to do anything to Iran first. The only way we get involved with Iran is if they strike Israel.

As for "fighting for Israel", I fought for Kuwait. I'm proud as hell that I did. The people of Kuwait (not specifically the public figures, the every-day folks) are great people. I never, not once, thought "why am I fighting Kuwait's battle?". And, to my knowledge, nobody else I fought with had those feelings.

Like it, or not, the United States is the world's leader. We set the tone for the human rights struggle. I could care less about going in and removing a dictator, unless the mass populace was being persecuted. It's sad that we are one of the very few countries that will stand up for those things, but we are.

We were duped into fightig for Kuwait. Had those *******s forgiven Saddams debt there would have been no wars.

[olevetonahill]

We were duped into fightig for Kuwait. Had those *******s forgiven Saddams debt there would have been no wars.

Sense, You make none

[Curly Bill]

Some people are just full of dumas.

[rock on sooner]

We were duped into fightig for Kuwait. Had those *******s forgiven Saddams debt there would have been no wars.

DD, are you saying that Saddam invaded Kuwait because he owed them money?
Sorry, I've been following all this war stuff for a long time and that's the first I've
heard of that....

[diverdog]

This seems to be getting little attention. When Iran gets a nuke, do you think they'd use it?

I don't know if they would or not.

They will not use it to wipe out Israel. I agree that they could use the fact that they have nukes to destabilize the area.

[8timechamps]

Not much I have left to say then.

[diverdog]

Some people are just full of dumas.

Do yourself a favor and read why Saddam invaded Kuwait. And then read what US envoy April Glaspie told Iraq when they asked about US reaction to an invasion of Kuwait. The war with Iraq could have been avoided.

[diverdog]

Sense, You make none

Then you tell me why they invaded.

[okie52]

Okie:

A war with Iran would require the draft. We are far to eager to go to war. Tell me what is the end game in Iran?

If there was a draft you would have no say, if it was voluntary you really have no say since it would be your son's decision.

I don't get all of your fear about an "eagerness" to go to war. Most of the nation is war weary and desire to not be in any more wars. I am one of them.

If it was me and we were actually in a war with Iran I would just level it. Scorched earth and leave. No nation building. No occupation. No trying to force democracy down their throats. But Iran would have to attack us (or be preparing an attack) for me to be willing to do that.

[diverdog]

DD, are you saying that Saddam invaded Kuwait because he owed them money?
Sorry, I've been following all this war stuff for a long time and that's the first I've
heard of that....

Iraq owed $80 billion dollars to several Arab states including Kuwait the debt was crushing Iraqs economy. On top of that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields and Iraq asked them to stop. They didn't.

Saddam felt he was betrayed by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait because he waged a decades long war with Iran which was extremely costly and bloody for Iraq. The war, he claimed was to protect the Sunnis. Given recent events I suspect he was right.

[diverdog]

If there was a draft you would have no say, if it was voluntary you really have no say since it would be their decision.

I don't get all of your fear about an "eagerness" to go to war. Most of the nation is war weary and ready to not be in any more wars. I am one of them.

If it was me and we were actually in a war with Iran I would just level it. Scorched earth and leave. No nation building. No occupation. No trying to force democracy down their throats. But Iran would have to attack us (or be preparing an attack) for me to be willing to do that.

Okie:

We do not fight like that anymore. That is one of my issues. I believe in total war.

[okie52]

Iraq owed $80 billion dollars to several Arab states including Kuwait the debt was crushing Iraqs economy. On top of that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields and Iraq asked them to stop. They didn't.

Saddam felt he was betrayed by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait because he waged a decades long war with Iran which was extremely costly and bloody for Iraq. The war, he claimed was to protect the Sunnis. Given recent events I suspect he was right.

The slant drilling is correct and the Kuwaitis have turned out to be little ****s in their own rights. Saddam could have played it a lot smarter though and left Kuwait after the massive US buildup in Saudi Arabia. He really made some stupid decisions.

[okie52]

Okie:

We do not fight like that anymore. That is one of my issues. I believe in total war.

I know we don't but we should. 11 years in Afghanistan is 10 years too long.

[olevetonahill]

We were duped into fightig for Kuwait. Had those *******s forgiven Saddams debt there would have been no wars.


Sense, You make none


Then you tell me why they invaded.

Ill admit Im no foreign policy expert , But what you said makes NO SENSE


That Be like YOU owing me a 1000 Bucks , Me sayin I want You to pay up and You kicking My azz. Then sayin You wouldnt have kicked My azz If I had just forgave you the debt \
See makes NO SENSE

[rock on sooner]

Iraq owed $80 billion dollars to several Arab states including Kuwait the debt was crushing Iraqs economy. On top of that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields and Iraq asked them to stop. They didn't.

Saddam felt he was betrayed by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait because he waged a decades long war with Iran which was extremely costly and bloody for Iraq. The war, he claimed was to protect the Sunnis. Given recent events I suspect he was right.

What I've always been led to believe was that the money was very incidental
and it was about the slant drilling, artificial holding down of oil prices and,
most importantly, Kuwait's oil and ports. Saddam invaded and suddenly
proclaimed Kuwait as the 19th province of Iraq. I don't think Kuwait's checkbook
would have stopped Saddam.

[OU_Sooners75]

If there was a draft you would have no say, if it was voluntary you really have no say since it would be your son's decision.

I don't get all of your fear about an "eagerness" to go to war. Most of the nation is war weary and desire to not be in any more wars. I am one of them.

If it was me and we were actually in a war with Iran I would just level it. Scorched earth and leave. No nation building. No occupation. No trying to force democracy down their throats. But Iran would have to attack us (or be preparing an attack) for me to be willing to do that.

+1

[diverdog]

Ill admit Im no foreign policy expert , But what you said makes NO SENSE


That Be like YOU owing me a 1000 Bucks , Me sayin I want You to pay up and You kicking My azz. Then sayin You wouldnt have kicked My azz If I had just forgave you the debt \
See makes NO SENSE

You got it backwards.

It would be like me owing you a $1000. I can't pay it and you make my life a living hell. I plead with you to restructure my loans and you f*** me again. While I am not looking you bust into my house and steal my money. Finally I get fed up pleading with you and I decide to kick your ***. But before I do it I tell you I am going to kick your *** and you laugh at me. So I am left with no choice but to stomp you into the ground.

Make sense to you?

[olevetonahill]

You got it backwards.

It would be like me owing you a $1000. I can't pay it and you make my life a living hell. I plead with you to restructure my loans and you f*** me again. While I am not looking you bust into my house and steal my money. Finally I get fed up pleading with you and I decide to kick your ***. But before I do it I tell you I am going to kick your *** and you laugh at me. So I am left with no choice but to stomp you into the ground.

Make sense to you?

Not really , But that aint what you said at 1st anyway .

[diverdog]

Not really , But that aint what you said at 1st anyway .

Sorry typing on my iPhone.

[olevetonahill]

Sorry typing on my iPhone.

Dont care if yer typing on Yer I Throne
still dont make no sense :playful:

[OU68]

We're not going to do anything to Iran first. The only way we get involved with Iran is if they strike Israel.

As for "fighting for Israel", I fought for Kuwait. I'm proud as hell that I did. The people of Kuwait (not specifically the public figures, the every-day folks) are great people. I never, not once, thought "why am I fighting Kuwait's battle?". And, to my knowledge, nobody else I fought with had those feelings.

Like it, or not, the United States is the world's leader. We set the tone for the human rights struggle. I could care less about going in and removing a dictator, unless the mass populace was being persecuted. It's sad that we are one of the very few countries that will stand up for those things, but we are.

Tell that to the people of Darfur and Sudan.

[8timechamps]

Tell that to the people of Darfur and Sudan.

I wasn't sent to Darfur or the Sudan. I was sent to Kuwait, I can only speak to that. During my service, had I been sent to Africa, I would have fought for those folks too.

[diverdog]

Dont care if yer typing on Yer I Throne
still dont make no sense :playful:

How do you think the US would react if someone was slant drilling for oil in our country and not paying for it?

[8timechamps]

How do you think the US would react if someone was slant drilling for oil in our country and not paying for it?

Ultimately, we would exhaust every diplomatic avenue before pursuing military action. If you think Saddam did that, they you are not living in the same world with the rest of us.

[diverdog]

Ron Paul gets it:

http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/cong-ron-paul-classified-cable-proves-us-ok-d-saddam-s-kuwait

[soonercruiser]

I heard that the Chinese are "slant" drilling everywhere!
:playful:

Gonna bet that you Norman folks are drinking my water.
Norman slant drills you know....

[AlboSooner]

You guys seem to be missing the point. I don't want Iran to have nukes, but if Israel has an issue with Iran, they need to grow a pair and go after it. Why do they push the US in a conflict we have no bidness getting involved.

If the Soviet Union dared not strike the US, neither will puny Iran.

The Iranian regime is just as scared of the US, as some of us seem to be of them. In a war of annihilation, Iran vs US would be a catastrophe for Iran.

I am opposed to Israel staying the sole regional power on US blood and treasure.


Ps: Iran does not need nukes to destabilize the region. They have destabilized the region since Saddam fell, and they had no nukes.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You guys seem to be missing the point. I don't want Iran to have nukes, but if Israel has an issue with Iran, they need to grow a pair and go after it. Why do they push the US in a conflict we have no bidness getting involved.

If the Soviet Union dared not strike the US, neither will puny Iran.

The Iranian regime is just as scared of the US, as some of us seem to be of them. In a war of annihilation, Iran vs US would be a catastrophe for Iran.

I am opposed to Israel staying the sole regional power on US blood and treasure.


Ps: Iran does not need nukes to destabilize the region. They have destabilized the region since Saddam fell, and they had no nukes.I'm glad you got it all figger'd out. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that there is a bunch of ignern't asses out there thinking that Iran is harmless and Israel is the big bad bully...

[AlboSooner]

I'm glad you got it all figger'd out. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that there is a bunch of ignern't asses out there thinking that Iran is harmless and Israel is the big bad bully...

Your ad-homien neither brings any facts, nor does it offend me. You derail the issue by making untrue accusations. It is irrational, or down right imbecilic to equate non-interventionism with a "Iran is not dangerous" stance. Iran is dangerous to Israel.


The majority of Americans are non-interventionists. Both Bush and Obama won on promising a less interventionist America.

I'll exit this conversation, so you can continue your herp-derping rah rah, USA world police circle-jerk.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Your ad-homien neither brings any facts, nor does it offend me. You derail the issue by making untrue accusations. It is irrational, or down right imbecilic to equate non-interventionism with a "Iran is not dangerous" stance. Iran is dangerous to Israel.


The majority of Americans are non-interventionists. Both Bush and Obama won on promising a less interventionist America.

I'll exit this conversation, so you can continue your herp-derping rah rah, USA world police circle-jerk.
I didn't add hominy to noth'n.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I love hominy.

My wife doesn't so we never cook it which makes me sad because I LOVE hominy.

[olevetonahill]

I love hominy.

My wife doesn't so we never cook it which makes me sad because I LOVE hominy.

I dont care for Hominy But I love Grits , Whats up with that?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

It's a conspiracy.

You're a hominy-ist.

[olevetonahill]

Oh Noes, do that mean I gotta turn in my Conservative card?

[soonercruiser]

Come on vet!
Quit crying and "get your grits up"!

[olevetonahill]

Come on vet!
Quit crying and "get your grits up"!

I Likes My Grits, Its Hominey i aint a carin fer

I specially like Cheese grits , if theres ever any left I spread em out, cut em up in strips and fry em in bacon grease for breakfast the next morning