To the shores of Tripoli....

[StoopTroup]

Sounds like President Obama has called for a detail of 200 Marines to recover our murdered State Dept Officials and secure our raided Embassy.

God Bless you Marines.

I never thought they would ever have to perform a duty like this when I was taught this song as a child.

From the Halls of Montezuma (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chapultepec),To the shores of Tripoli (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War);We fight our country's battlesIn the air, on land, and sea;First to fight for right and freedomAnd to keep our honor clean:We are proud to claim the titleOf United States Marine.Our flag's unfurled to every breezeFrom dawn to setting sun;We have fought in every clime and placeWhere we could take a gun;In the snow of far-off Northern landsAnd in sunny tropic scenes;You will find us always on the jobThe United States Marines.Here's health to you and to our CorpsWhich we are proud to serve;In many a strife we've fought for lifeAnd never lost our nerve;If the Army and the NavyEver look on Heaven’s scenes;They will find the streets are guardedBy United States Marines.

God Bless the family, friends and co-workers of Ambassador Chris Stephens and those who we have tragically lost to this most heinous act.

[FaninAma]

It will be interesting to see how our Commander in Chief responds to this attack. I am sure there will be more interested parties than just American voters watching.

[sappstuf]

It makes me wonder why there wasn't a Marine detachment there already.

[StoopTroup]

Where? Benghazi or Cairo?

Benghasi was a place that Ambassador Stephens felt safe in till some idiots who just learned to use the Internet went bat **** crazy.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Time to kill 90 people because 1 of ours was offed.

[sappstuf]

Where? Benghazi or Cairo?

Benghasi was a place that Ambassador Stephens felt safe in till some idiots who just learned to use the Internet went bat **** crazy.

Benghazi... We apparently had a Libyan security force there.. Not smart at all. If you don't want to bring in Marines, at least bring in 100 Gurkhas... Those guys can dish out some damage.

[KABOOKIE]

Time to kill 90 people because 1 of ours was offed.

That's the way you do it. Next time a little mouthy ****er will think before getting all uppity with Americans.

[olevetonahill]

Time to kill 90 people because 1 of ours was offed.

And again
http://onlineadvertisingexecutive.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Bowl-of-Stupid-C11749983.jpeg

[C&CDean]

Time to kill 90 people because 1 of ours was offed.

Or 900. Or 9,000. Whatever it takes.

[cleller]

Or 900. Or 9,000. Whatever it takes.

Come on, the sooner we roll over and play dead the sooner we can all live in peace and harmony. They don't really want to hurt us. They're really all just like Boy George at heart.

[C&CDean]

Come on, the sooner we roll over and play dead the sooner we can all live in peace and harmony. They don't really want to hurt us. They're really all just like Boy George at heart.

Well we do deserve it I guess. You know, for buying the slaves from the African chiefs - or maybe it was for giving them crappy rice and beans instead of sghetti and meatballs when they were/are starving to death. And crap. Meh.

[Curly Bill]

I'm gonna be disappointed if the best 200 marines can do is kill 90 of those worthless f*****s!

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Or 900. Or 9,000. Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes to breed the next generation of anti-Americans? Case you haven't figured out, fighting terrorism isn't like fighting a regular conventional war, killing more of them doesn't equate for a win for us. These guys are certainly hiding out among the civilian population and even gaining support, but that support is achieved through intimidation and coercion, not legitimate support. When we come in with these heavy handed responses, we prove to be the evil the jihadists claim we are, thus pushing "moderate" groups of the population to anti-Americanism.

All you guys can see is blind rage, that we should kill as many as possible to send a message that we are the dominant force. Think about the message it really sends. Will everyone we kill be involved in the attacks? No. But their families and friends will get the message that America really is the great western devil, and they will become indoctrinated into extremism and jihadism.

Dean et al, I'd love if you could come back with an actual response, not strawmen and ad hominem that have been lighting up my spek. You don't know **** about me

[Curly Bill]

If we kill em all we won't have to worry about the next batch of American haters! There, see how easy it is? :)

[olevetonahill]

Whatever it takes to breed the next generation of anti-Americans? Case you haven't figured out, fighting terrorism isn't like fighting a regular conventional war, killing more of them doesn't equate for a win for us. These guys are certainly hiding out among the civilian population and even gaining support, but that support is achieved through intimidation and coercion, not legitimate support. When we come in with these heavy handed responses, we prove to be the evil the jihadists claim we are, thus pushing "moderate" groups of the population to anti-Americanism.

All you guys can see is blind rage, that we should kill as many as possible to send a message that we are the dominant force. Think about the message it really sends. Will everyone we kill be involved in the attacks? No. But their families and friends will get the message that America really is the great western devil, and they will become indoctrinated into extremism and jihadism.

Dean et al, I'd love if you could come back with an actual response, not strawmen and ad hominem that have been lighting up my spek. You don't know **** about me
Not a Persona;l attack there youngun merely an observation
http://onlineadvertisingexecutive.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Bowl-of-Stupid-C11749983.jpeg

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

I also want to add we are reaping what we sow in supporting resistance movements in Libya whom we don't fully understand! Qaddafi was a dick no doubt, but we didn't and still don't understand if who will replace him will be worse. Its not difficult to mind our own ****ing business. A fundamentalist state is not preferable to a secular dictatorship, or visa versa. There are cultural differences between western societies and the Middle East that we are ignoring. To many Middle Eastern cultures, restraint in the face of adversity or provocation is considered a sign of weakness. There is no such proverb as turning the other cheek.

I hope others who have spent time in the Middle East can back me on this, violence is an acceptable response to almost anything in Arab culture. (note ARAB, not Muslim. This is not the case in Turkey, Malaysia or Indonesia) This is why the cycle will never end, and it would be best if we withdrew until cool heads prevail, rather than perpetuate this cycle.

[C&CDean]

Whatever it takes to breed the next generation of anti-Americans? Case you haven't figured out, fighting terrorism isn't like fighting a regular conventional war, killing more of them doesn't equate for a win for us. These guys are certainly hiding out among the civilian population and even gaining support, but that support is achieved through intimidation and coercion, not legitimate support. When we come in with these heavy handed responses, we prove to be the evil the jihadists claim we are, thus pushing "moderate" groups of the population to anti-Americanism.

All you guys can see is blind rage, that we should kill as many as possible to send a message that we are the dominant force. Think about the message it really sends. Will everyone we kill be involved in the attacks? No. But their families and friends will get the message that America really is the great western devil, and they will become indoctrinated into extremism and jihadism.

Dean et al, I'd love if you could come back with an actual response, not strawmen and ad hominem that have been lighting up my spek. You don't know **** about me

I know all I need to know about you from your ramblings here. You've been sheltered from reality far too long. That much is painfully obvious.

What would you do? Do you think rolling up in the fetal position is the answer? Do you think we should just let them kill us all (and if you for one second don't think that's their ultimate goal then you're bat**** gonzo)?

What you are not understanding is that these people are gonna kill us regardless of what we do. It's their mission. Their jihad. Surely you get this? They cannot be reasoned with. Diplomacy ain't gonna work with these animals.

So, pray tell, what do we do?

[C&CDean]

So you do recommend the fetal position. Wow.

[FaninAma]

Where? Benghazi or Cairo?

Benghasi was a place that Ambassador Stephens felt safe in till some idiots who just learned to use the Internet went bat **** crazy.

Still excusing the murderers. That's pretty offensive to me and most Americans today.

Those who made the little you-tube movie did not cause this. It is silly to think a movie or article or a speech is responsible for murdering someone.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

So you do recommend the fetal position. Wow.
We are rarely if ever attacked when we keep boots at home and a strong navy in the water. Its when boots land in the Middle East, that the jihadist crows come home to roost.

It is absolutely ridiculous that a ****ty D-grade movie that no one will watch anyways provokes this kind of reaction. Sadly, it is a reflection of a culture that will take generations to change. They're being killed because of a savage and ignorant culture that celebrates violence against anything that challenges or opposes their belief system. Murdering people for "offending" your religious beliefs is nothing short of barbaric. Killing them all is obviously not an acceptable solution, letting them fight among themselves...sure.

[FaninAma]

Dean, I think we should allow the muslims to kill themselves. That sounds harsh but why should we protect them from themsleves? First of all we need to get rid of any dependence on anything those bastards produce....namely oil. We can kill hundreds of thousands and occupy their cities and countries and they will just start back when we leave.

I also think huge bounties should be placed on the heads of the leaders of the groups that attack us just like we do with criminals. Get the bounty high enough and somebody will take them out.

We should also engage in an Isreali Mosad strategy of selective assasination and hits.

I'm not saying cut and run but we need to take a page from the books of the country that is hated even more by these pricks than we are.

[C&CDean]

Hey, I'm all for them killing each other off. How do we facilitate it? I don't think rewards are enough. I know, let's arm them. Whoops, wait, we already tried that...

to SC boy:

So we sit at home and have a strong Navy. Are you proposing a 0 presence anywhere in the world but here? Then what? We wait for them to continue their infiltration into our country, deal with a half-dozen 9/11s a year, and it's all good?

It's a complex problem. We cannot assume anything because these people are not humans. We can't think "well if we just leave them to themselves they'll just leave Americans alone." Even I am smart enough to understand this. Do we not allow Americans to travel to the ME? Do we just go "if you go there you're on your own. No Embassies. No assistance."??

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

So we sit at home and have a strong Navy. Are you proposing a 0 presence anywhere in the world but here? Then what? We wait for them to continue their infiltration into our country, deal with a half-dozen 9/11s a year, and it's all good?

It's a complex problem. We cannot assume anything because these people are not humans. We can't think "well if we just leave them to themselves they'll just leave Americans alone." Even I am smart enough to understand this. Do we not allow Americans to travel to the ME? Do we just go "if you go there you're on your own. No Embassies. No assistance."??
9/11 is an anomaly, a near miracle that it was pulled off, and 9/11 was a direct result of American military being stationed in Saudi Arabia. I'm not proposing 0 presence, but our presence should not be militarized. Obviously embassy security should be increased, but this is a far cry from sending an excursion force.

"They are not human" is pretty sick thinking, they are culturally very different and comparatively backwards, but they are still humans. This is not a function solely of Islam, but a mix of Arab culture and very extreme interpretations of Islam. We can leave embassies, but we should avoid military incursions. Americans should be smart enough to avoid most areas of this region right now anyways.

The answer isn't to kill a ton of them, because that will exasperate, not alleviate their anger towards America. We should prevent this from happening again by increasing embassy security.

[C&CDean]

Your "solutions" suck. Simple as I can put it.

And anyone who can behead a person with a butter knife, blow themself to hell with C-4, send little kids in as bullet shields, murder women for being...well a woman?, fly a packed airplane into a crowded building, want to build a nuke for OFFENSIVE purposes, teach their own children to passionately hate others simply because they don't believe the same, etc., etc., etc. is not a human. They're ****ing animals who should be dealt with like animals. It's what they know, what they understand, and for damn sure what they need. They hate me cause I'm American? **** em'.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Your "solutions" suck. Simple as I can put it.

And anyone who can behead a person with a butter knife, blow themself to hell with C-4, send little kids in as bullet shields, murder women for being...well a woman?, fly a packed airplane into a crowded building, want to build a nuke for OFFENSIVE purposes, teach their own children to passionately hate others simply because they don't believe the same, etc., etc., etc. is not a human. They're ****ing animals who should be dealt with like animals. It's what they know, what they understand, and for damn sure what they need. They hate me cause I'm American? **** em'.
Careful with the nuke part there....pretty sure we built ours for offensive purposes as well. I do agree with the rest of your post, but hear me out on this. Those willing to commit acts like blowing themselves to hell, use kids as bullet shields etc are a very small minority. There is a much larger group that will join in mob actions ie attacking an embassy, dragging the ambassadors body around. These are fundamentalist Muslims, but they are not indoctrinated to the point where they will kill themselves in order to off a few infidels. The plurality of these societies are more moderate, likely to condemn these attack, but not with the same ferocity in which the crowds assaulted the embassies.

The problem is if we go in and start shooting, inevitably we are going to kill innocents. If we shoot into a home of a family who had nothing to do with the embassy riots, how are we any different from those who lit the embassy on fire in the first place?

[FaninAma]

Dean, I really think the European slugs need to put more on the line since they are more dependent on Middle East oil than we are.


Next we need to force the Saudi Royal family's to put more on the line and make them stop using Israel and us as a diversion to direct the hatred of their home-grown crazies away from their own crappy rule of the country.

Israel doesn't go around invading countries unless they border on their own country. Again, we should take note of their preferred manner of retaliating against these idiots. In fact, I think they would be even more effective if the US would take off the shackles off of their intelligence service.

But above all we need to cut our dependence on their oil. That is trhe basis of their importance and hold over the world. I suspect they have just as many crazies in sub-Sahara Africa but they have nothing the world really wants so nobody cares about them and they don't have the money to cause problems.


The Middle East is like a drug pusher and the West is their biggest junkie client. We'll do anything to keep that oil fix coming in.

[olevetonahill]

Careful with the nuke part there....pretty sure we built ours for offensive purposes as well. I do agree with the rest of your post, but hear me out on this. Those willing to commit acts like blowing themselves to hell, use kids as bullet shields etc are a very small minority. There is a much larger group that will join in mob actions ie attacking an embassy, dragging the ambassadors body around. These are fundamentalist Muslims, but they are not indoctrinated to the point where they will kill themselves in order to off a few infidels. The plurality of these societies are more moderate, likely to condemn these attack, but not with the same ferocity in which the crowds assaulted the embassies.

The problem is if we go in and start shooting, inevitably we are going to kill innocents. If we shoot into a home of a family who had nothing to do with the embassy riots, how are we any different from those who lit the embassy on fire in the first place?

Dayum straight kid. Why, we cant hear those Protestin monkeys that want to blow up every infidel they come across because the GOOD Mooslums are so busy loudly condemning that kind of action.
Wheres the Roll eyes smiley thing?

[C&CDean]

You don't know much about WWII either I see. We built a nuke to save 10's of thousands of US lives that would have been lost in a conventional assault on the Japanese mainland. Wait, you say? That's offense. Nope. Them mother****ers started it. See how that works?

In theory you should be applauded. You want everyone to be happy. Love, peace, beads, bells, incense, light shows, and hare mother****ing krishna all you groovy far-out freaks. That's what everybody wants. Everybody but the ****ing animals.

They're not going away. They're not gonna stop killing us. Burying our heads in the sand isn't the answer.

[C&CDean]

Dean, I really think the European slugs need to put more on the line since they are more dependent on Middle East oil than we are.


Next we need to force the Saudi Royal family's to put more on the line and make them stop using Israel and us as a diversion to direct the hatred of their home-grown crazies away from their own crappy rule of the country.

Israel doesn't go around invading countries unless they border on their own country. Again, we should take note of their preferred manner of retaliating against these idiots. In fact, I think they would be even more effective if the US would take off the shackles off of their intelligence service.

But above all we need to cut our dependence on their oil. That is trhe basis of their importance and hold over the world. I suspect they have just as many crazies in sub-Sahara Africa but they have nothing the world really wants so nobody cares about them and they don't have the money to cause problems.


The Middle East is like a drug pusher and the West is their biggest junkie client. We'll do anything to keep that oil fix coming in.

I too believe the Europeans should be more deeply invested in the problem. I think oil is a huge part of it, but I also believe the crazy bastards are just following their religious beliefs. Like you said, there's a ton of the crazy ****s all over, but the only ones with any $$ to finance the craziness are the ones getting oil money.

[FaninAma]

SouthCarolina, how do you propose we deal with this blatant act of terror against a sovereign embassy of the United States?

You need some response because there are lots of other crazies just watching what our CIC's response will be.

[StoopTroup]

I think Freedom of Speech has cost many lives but just like most of us here....I defend it and think that no man, woman or child should be kept from having Freedom of Speech.

That stupid movie got those idiots all crazy and it looks as though a group of Armed Rebels who have been hanging around took advantage of their outrage and started a very violent riot on our Embassy.

I do wonder why Ambassador Stephens didn't just stay out of Libya knowing that 9-11-2012 was going to be a possible problem. He took a risk. Some talking heads are saying he wasn't always there and they usually try to lessen the risk by avoiding being in the Embassy when they have decent intel that militant groups are in the area. Per the State Dept. they try not to have a Military Detail everywhere we have an Embassy but I find it hard to believe the Ambassador didn't leave before 9-11-2012 or that security whether Marines or a Private detail weren't there when he made the choice to stay yesterday.

It's obvious not all Libyans are animals but we have to realize that they are trying to stabilize their Government after Gaddafi was assassinated and some real dangerous armed folks were still hanging around.

One of the Quotes from Ambassador Stephens I saw this morning was that he was happy that Gaddafi was gone and that Americans and British as well as Foreign Nationals in Libya seemed to be welcomed again after Gaddafi's Death and that it was very nice to not have to be as worried about safety afterwards and.....THAT HE HOPED IT WOULD LAST.

Quite a sobering statement knowing what happened to him and the 3 other folks with him yesterday.

[FaninAma]

ST, I am having a hard time reconciling your first 2 statements in your last post:

I think Freedom of Speech has cost many lives but just like most of us here....I defend it and think that no man, woman or child should be kept from having Freedom of Speech.

That stupid movie got those idiots all crazy and it looks as though a group of Armed Rebels who have been hanging around took advantage of their outrage and started a very violent riot on our Embassy.

If you support free speech then you can't infer that we have to curtail our free speech to appease a group of crazies. This is not along the lines of shouting fire in a crowded theater. This is a case of somebody disagreeing with a US citizen's right to free speech and engaging in actions designed to make them stop speaking(or opining). It is a dangerous precedent if we ever start down that slippery slope.

The responsible group could very well be Ghaddafi loyalists but it is still a wake-up call that this is just one more example of how much the Middle East is in disarray despite the West wasting vasts amounts of human life and fortune to make it a different place.

[StoopTroup]

You don't know much about WWII either I see. We built a nuke to save 10's of thousands of US lives that would have been lost in a conventional assault on the Japanese mainland. Wait, you say? That's offense. Nope. Them mother****ers started it. See how that works?

In theory you should be applauded. You want everyone to be happy. Love, peace, beads, bells, incense, light shows, and hare mother****ing krishna all you groovy far-out freaks. That's what everybody wants. Everybody but the ****ing animals.

They're not going away. They're not gonna stop killing us. Burying our heads in the sand isn't the answer.

Honestly...I agree with most of what you are saying but we were very active in getting some very smart Germans who Hitler would have forced to make him a bomb leave Germany and come to work in America and help us build or understand the plans we had acquired by infiltrating German Think Tanks and helping some of the Germans that didn't believe Hitler was a stable guy.

Names like Felix Block, David Bohm, Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, James Franck, Otto Frisch, Klaus Fuchs, Rudolf Peierls, Emilio Segre, Leo Szilard, Edward Teller and Eugene Wigner don't sound like folks who were born in the United States and all of them are guys who were instrumental in the Manhattan project.

I'd love to be able to say that America invented the Bomb but it was very helpful to have some Nazi Physicists that were afraid that if Hitler had gotten the bomb instead of the Allies.....the rest of the World would have possible looked a lot different had they not defected to our side.

The Japanese and the hardline that the Emperor took gave Truman just what he needed to justify using Big Boy and Little Boy on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Thank God they decided to give up after that as we would have had to continue on with the invasion of Japan as we didn't have another Bomb for Tokyo. One of the greatest political/military bluffs in the Modern World IMO.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You don't know much about WWII either I see. We built a nuke to save 10's of thousands of US lives that would have been lost in a conventional assault on the Japanese mainland. Wait, you say? That's offense. Nope. Them mother****ers started it. See how that works?

In theory you should be applauded. You want everyone to be happy. Love, peace, beads, bells, incense, light shows, and hare mother****ing krishna all you groovy far-out freaks. That's what everybody wants. Everybody but the ****ing animals.

They're not going away. They're not gonna stop killing us. Burying our heads in the sand isn't the answer.
I'm not contesting it would have saved lives, but it certainly wasn't a "defensive weapon" at that point. It was an alternative offensive strategy to going all out on the mainland, which would have obviously been horrific.

@Fanin How we respond is find those responsible and arrest/kill them. It needs to be done with surgical precision, with no innocents caught in the dragnet. That means no large military force, no drones. Isn't this what we have the CIA/spec ops guys for? The Libyan government needs to deal with these militias, not us.

[C&CDean]

I'm not contesting it would have saved lives, but it certainly wasn't a "defensive weapon" at that point. It was an alternative offensive strategy to going all out on the mainland, which would have obviously been horrific.

@Fanin How we respond is find those responsible and arrest/kill them. It needs to be done with surgical precision, with no innocents caught in the dragnet. That means no large military force, no drones. Isn't this what we have the CIA/spec ops guys for? The Libyan government needs to deal with these militias, not us.

Movies. Vidya games. You've seen too many you have.

[C&CDean]

Honestly...I agree with most of what you are saying but we were very active in getting some very smart Germans who Hitler would have forced to make him a bomb leave Germany and come to work in America and help us build or understand the plans we had acquired by infiltrating German Think Tanks and helping some of the Germans that didn't believe Hitler was a stable guy.

Names like Felix Block, David Bohm, Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, James Franck, Otto Frisch, Klaus Fuchs, Rudolf Peierls, Emilio Segre, Leo Szilard, Edward Teller and Eugene Wigner don't sound like folks who were born in the United States and all of them are guys who were instrumental in the Manhattan project.

I'd love to be able to say that America invented the Bomb but it was very helpful to have some Nazi Physicists that were afraid that if Hitler had gotten the bomb instead of the Allies.....the rest of the World would have possible looked a lot different had they not defected to our side.

The Japanese and the hardline that the Emperor took gave Truman just what he needed to justify using Big Boy and Little Boy on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Thank God they decided to give up after that as we would have had to continue on with the invasion of Japan as we didn't have another Bomb for Tokyo. One of the greatest political/military bluffs in the Modern World IMO.

Dude, all our scientists were "foreign born." Hell, 99% of the folks here were foreign born or were 2nd gen Americans. Both of my great-grandparents were born in Europe and we're talking WWII here.

If I recall, we weren't after the German scientists for nukes, it was more for rocket/jet technology.

[StoopTroup]

ST, I am having a hard time reconciling your first 2 statements in your last post:


If you support free speech then you can't infer that we have to curtail our free speech to appease a group of crazies. This is not along the lines of shouting fire in a crowded theater. This is a case of somebody disagreeing with a US citizen's right to free speech and engaging in actions designed to make them stop speaking(or opining). It is a dangerous precedent if we ever start down that slippery slope.

The responsible group could very well be Ghaddafi loyalists but it is still a wake-up call that this is just one more example of how much the Middle East is in disarray despite the West wasting vasts amounts of human life and fortune to make it a different place.


WTF is wrong with you?

I'm not inferring anyone needs to curtail our freedom of speech.

I'm saying that the rest of the World is coming into Modern times and that some Imams and extremists are using things like this stupid movie to incite riots in areas that are very dangerous to any US Citizen traveling abroad. Just because the World is becoming a very different place due to Technology....we need to be a bit more careful in how we handle bringing Freedom of Speech and Democracy to places that have been in the Stone Age way to long.

That whack job Preacher has cost a bunch of lives by inciting riots in Afghanistan and now Libya and Egypt. Nobody is denying him Free Speech today but they damn sure aren't putting him on LIVE TV on NBC today and allowing him a "Bloody Pulpit".

Much like Geraldo Rivera put our Troops at risk.....this Preacher has also put some Americans at risk because he feels he has the right to say anything he wants. There does come a point where hate speech can become an issue and i think this guy is getting pretty close to becoming a problem for what our Country is trying to accomplish.

[StoopTroup]

Dude, all our scientists were "foreign born." Hell, 99% of the folks here were foreign born or were 2nd gen Americans. Both of my great-grandparents were born in Europe and we're talking WWII here.

If I recall, we weren't after the German scientists for nukes, it was more for rocket/jet technology.

Again...I agree with you. The Rocket/Jet guys outnumbered the Physicists but we wanted them too.

[8timechamps]

Those 200 Marines will get in and out without a bullet fired. The cowards that did this will run like cockroaches when the light is turned on.

[C&CDean]

Those 200 Marines will get in and out without a bullet fired. The cowards that did this will run like cockroaches when the light is turned on.

But, but, but showing force will make them keeeel us....

[8timechamps]

But, but, but showing force will make them keeeel us....

We can only hope they are stupid enough to stick around. I'm sure any one of those 200 jarheads would love to even the score.

[FaninAma]

WTF is wrong with you?

I'm not inferring anyone needs to curtail our freedom of speech.

I'm saying that the rest of the World is coming into Modern times and that some Imams and extremists are using things like this stupid movie to incite riots in areas that are very dangerous to any US Citizen traveling abroad. Just because the World is becoming a very different place due to Technology....we need to be a bit more careful in how we handle bringing Freedom of Speech and Democracy to places that have been in the Stone Age way to long.

That whack job Preacher has cost a bunch of lives by inciting riots in Afghanistan and now Libya and Egypt. Nobody is denying him Free Speech today but they damn sure aren't putting him on LIVE TV on NBC today and allowing him a "Bloody Pulpit".

Much like Geraldo Rivera put our Troops at risk.....this Preacher has also put some Americans at risk because he feels he has the right to say anything he wants. There does come a point where hate speech can become an issue and i think this guy is getting pretty close to becoming a problem for what our Country is trying to accomplish.


Go on. Explain how we do this.

Clearing what we say or put on the internet through a government agency? Will there be an official agency that publishes a compendium of things that may be offensive to muslims because, after all, what offends them is pretty subjective. I think we might need some guidance.

Please explain your mecahnism of insuring we are all "careful" in what we say or put on the internet.

And are we going to be sensitive just to groups that murder people or all groups that we may offend regardless of their propensity for violent retribution?

Please give us some details because I sure don't want to be accused of killing somebody because of something I posted on the internet.

TIA.

[rock on sooner]

Those 200 Marines will get in and out without a bullet fired. The cowards that did this will run like cockroaches when the light is turned on.

The cockroaches will be found and "exterminated", but it won't
be done by a fast reaction Marine team. As mentioned earlier,
drones, covert action, hell, maybe even mercs going after the
reward (which is surely to come) and it may take some time.
Libya has a lot at stake here and I think they'll be active in the
hunt.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Movies. Vidya games. You've seen too many you have.
Nah its y'all singin "halls of montezumer" that have been watchin too much :P

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Imported/ShowPix/Jonathan/imagesA_M/gomer-pyle-usmc.jpg

I agree with you that we can't stick our heads in the sand, but we have to tread very very lightly or we will only perpetuate the cycle of violence.

Some encouraging images today, a counter-demonstration in Benghazi against the attacks. But like the protests at the embassy, who knows if this is reflective of a large portion of the populace?

http://i.imgur.com/laHT5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1VNsT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VRBbf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q50oC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r4eSy.jpg

Full album (http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI)

Original source (facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/LibyaAlhurraLivestream)

[Mjcpr]

See, we're all after the same things....

1. Capitalism
2. Mooslems
3. .....
4. Profit!

[8timechamps]

See, we're all after the same things....

1. Capitalism
2. Porn
3. .....
4. Profit!

FIFY

[Breadburner]

Photoshop....!

[marfacowboy]

Movies. Vidya games. You've seen too many you have.
Nah its y'all singin "halls of montezumer" that have been watchin too much :P

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Imported/ShowPix/Jonathan/imagesA_M/gomer-pyle-usmc.jpg

I agree with you that we can't stick our heads in the sand, but we have to tread very very lightly or we will only perpetuate the cycle of violence.

Some encouraging images today, a counter-demonstration in Benghazi against the attacks. But like the protests at the embassy, who knows if this is reflective of a large portion of the populace?

http://i.imgur.com/laHT5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1VNsT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VRBbf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q50oC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r4eSy.jpg

Full album (http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI)

Original source (facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/LibyaAlhurraLivestream)

truth

[marfacowboy]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156539/Opinion-Briefing-Libyans-Eye-New-Relations-West.aspx

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156539/Opinion-Briefing-Libyans-Eye-New-Relations-West.aspx
You mean its only a minority who wants to blow us to smithereens and the majority is more moderate? You don't say

[sappstuf]

There was no Marine contingent at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi... How in the f&^% do you have a consulate in a war torn country with Libyan rent-a-cops for protection??

That is the real outrage here and everything else is smoke and mirrors.

[StoopTroup]

Go on. Explain how we do this.

Clearing what we say or put on the internet through a government agency? Will there be an official agency that publishes a compendium of things that may be offensive to muslims because, after all, what offends them is pretty subjective. I think we might need some guidance.

Please explain your mecahnism of insuring we are all "careful" in what we say or put on the internet.

And are we going to be sensitive just to groups that murder people or all groups that we may offend regardless of their propensity for violent retribution?

Please give us some details because I sure don't want to be accused of killing somebody because of something I posted on the internet.

TIA.

I'm not sure there is a fix.

You have to have faith in humans IMO. Sure there are plenty of folks who will live their life reacting to the latest and greatest "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE" video and there will be attacks on Consulates and Embassies and there will be even lots of Flash Mobs.

I just think in time and given that more and more people will become a part of the WWW and the Internet/facebook or whatever the next new gimmick is....they will learn to know what is real and what is manufactured.

People will continue to die but people will probably face repercussions from the same people they used on the internet possibly. If you are looking for me to state that there will one day be a judge Dredd Internet police that will take out abusers.....I'm not sure there will be. However....you can unlock your car with your cell phone....who's to say someone will hack your Phone one day while you are on the expressway in bummer to bumper 75 mile an hour traffic and bump your car into parallel park mode. Maybe your airbags will save you.....lol

There probably won't be insurance....but....there is the Golden Rule.

[sappstuf]

Nah its y'all singin "halls of montezumer" that have been watchin too much :P

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Imported/ShowPix/Jonathan/imagesA_M/gomer-pyle-usmc.jpg

I agree with you that we can't stick our heads in the sand, but we have to tread very very lightly or we will only perpetuate the cycle of violence.

Some encouraging images today, a counter-demonstration in Benghazi against the attacks. But like the protests at the embassy, who knows if this is reflective of a large portion of the populace?

http://i.imgur.com/laHT5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1VNsT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VRBbf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q50oC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r4eSy.jpg

Full album (http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI)

Original source (facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/LibyaAlhurraLivestream)

I can see the same exact picture in all 5 pictures and another in 4 of the 5.

Methinks the counter-demonstration wasn't really that big.

Edit: I can see both pictures in 4 of the 5. The other is so close up to not be able to see any other pictures.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

I can see the same exact picture in all 5 pictures and another in 4 of the 5.

Methinks the counter-demonstration wasn't really that big.
Follow to the original source and you will find a plethora of pictures, seems it was quite large. Sad the media isn't reporting on this, but compassion and asking for forgiveness doesn't sell like war, hatred and killing.

[StoopTroup]

truth

Nice.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I blame The Socialist and his weak sauce foreign policy for this and Egypt. He is stunningly useless.

[StoopTroup]

Follow to the original source and you will find a plethora of pictures, seems it was quite large. Sad the media isn't reporting on this, but compassion and asking for forgiveness doesn't sell like war, hatred and killing.


Plus the guy has Family. Pretty awful knowing your Son. Brother, Uncle etc.....was a dedicated American Ambassador and his final moments and the time of rescue of his remains have pictures of him dead and plastered all over the internet. Just another thing we didn't grow up seeing within hours or minutes of these type tragedies happening when we were kids. Like they said in the 60's....The Times....They are a changin'....

[StoopTroup]

I blame The Socialist and his weak sauce foreign policy for this and Egypt. He is stunningly useless.

Yeah....and Romney's gonna right the book once he's in charge.

[rock on sooner]

I blame The Socialist and his weak sauce foreign policy for this and Egypt. He is stunningly useless.

"Course ya would..."

[sappstuf]

Follow to the original source and you will find a plethora of pictures, seems it was quite large. Sad the media isn't reporting on this, but compassion and asking for forgiveness doesn't sell like war, hatred and killing.

I followed the link... 100, maybe 150. Probably as many as knew and/or planned the attack.

I saw a hottie in there. I'd show her a couple of my patented infidel moves....

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Probably as many as knew and/or planned the attack.


Pure speculation

[sappstuf]

Follow to the original source and you will find a plethora of pictures, seems it was quite large.

Pure speculation

Agreed.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Agreed.Fair enough

[StoopTroup]

Then it's settled.

[soonercruiser]

I hear that Obama is going to meet with the Muslim Brotherhood AGAIN in the WH, and plan a second Apology Tour.
:moody:

GOD Bless out troops!

[marfacowboy]

We're going to have another Civil War in this country. The partisanship and bull**** is so thick and so out of control. There are people in this country that just want blood, and I fear they're going to get it.
I hope I don't live to see it.

[soonerloyal]

Jeesus, more thoughtless responses here than in Pavlov's lab. Apology tour pffft, there never was one, never will be. But by all means, keep pulling things out of the *** rather than responding with facts. At least it's sort of entertaining.

God bless my sons' Marine Corps.

[StoopTroup]

I apologize for everything that has to do with nothing and I regret all the things I had nothing to do with. That said...

I wonder if Jim Inhofe is out helping Mitt by planting yard signs?

[hawaii 5-0]

I stand by everything I said except for those things I didn't say what I said.


I'd like to see who was behind the attacks. My guess is that it was a coupla Al Quaeda operatives who got a crowd worked up.

A sad situation, but if it wasn't due to some stupid movie there would just be some other lame excuse for terrorists to kill Americans.

Ultimately I'd like to see some heads roll. Those that were responsible.

5-0

[OU_Sooners75]

Can we just turn that entire area into a glass wasteland yet?

[SicEmBaylor]

It should come as no surprise that US support for the so-called "Arab Spring" has come back to bite us in the *** -- a result that was predicted by everyone with an iota of common sense.

Obama and Bush are both at fault for pursuing a nearly identical Wilsonian foreign policy that replaces rational pragmatism with naive idealism. A "forward leaning" policy of promoting democracy and respect for the rule of law in a region that is neither familiar with nor accepting of either must be stopped. We promote our own western European/American ideas and principles at our own peril -- it births the sort of resentment that is the catalyst for the recruitment of "terrorists" and attacks upon our nation abroad and at home.

The United States should never have supported the overthrow of Gaddafi. One of the very few foreign policy triumphs of the Bush administration were the years spent tirelessly negotiating with Gaddafi ultimately resulting in his renouncement of foreign terrorism and the abandonment of his 'wmd' programs -- in addition to providing the United States with intelligence regarding regional terrorism. To turn around and then support his overthrow was a warning to others that it does not pay to work, diplomatically, with the United States. It will only get harder for the United States to work diplomatically with foreign leaders with a less than pristine human rights record; nonetheless, we need to work with these people to further our interests regardless of how morally bankrupt they may be.

Likewise, it was absolutely shameful of the United States to abandon Mubarak in Egypt. Mubarak was an ally of the Untied States for decades not only providing us with intelligence and assistance in the region but also keeping the peace with Israel and the more hardcore Islamist in his own country in check. Again, we abandoned him at our own peril preferring to believe the make believe fiction that the revolutionary movement in Egypt was interested in creating a democratic government based on the rule of law.

For that matter, Clinton deserves his fair share of blame for opposing Milosevic in Bosnia for the same reasons mentioned above.

Nonetheless, anyone who forces themselves onto our embassy grounds should be shot on sight by the US Marine Corps. It absolutely astounds me that we allowed another embassy to be sacked. This weak defense of US soil only increases the danger for our embassy personnel all over the world as it sends the message that we will not defend our embassy staff or even our ambassadors.

Obama's actions in this matter have been negligent at best and out right criminal at worst.

[Blue]

^^^^YEP

[SicEmBaylor]

I apologize for everything that has to do with nothing and I regret all the things I had nothing to do with. That said...

I wonder if Jim Inhofe is out helping Mitt by planting yard signs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpmIBJ_MKas

[Curly Bill]

What SicEm said up yonder ^^^^^^^

[cleller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpmIBJ_MKas

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/msc.jpg

[olevetonahill]

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/msc.jpg

I can see YOU understand

[OUinFLA]

she's very pretty

[C&CDean]

It's nice to see a few of them are so scared ****less that we might go wading in there that they made a couple signs. Meh. If anyone thinks this is anything other than that they're not very smart.

If they want my support they need to take it upon themselves to police up the guilty P'sOS and take care of them in public for everyone to see what happens to animals. Otherwise, meh.

[FaninAma]

The muslims of the Middle East are like the children in the novel Lord of the Flies. They have no concept of the higher principles of human interaction and civility. Even the House of Saud is a corrupt and immoral den of perverts that mistreats and subjugates its own citizens for its greedy self benefit. And they actively try to re-direct the crazy lunatics in their country toward the US and Israel.

They are not worth the blood of one more of our sons or daughters.

[soonercruiser]

So you libs won't even admit that Obama had an Apology Tour through the ME at the beginning of his first term???

We are the big bad colonial opressors who runs about the world using wars to enslave the peoples, and get their natual resources for our own benefit! That's what he was telling the Arabs! Call it what YOU WANT! I call it an Apology Tour.
The Arab Spring will bring about a safer world without our direct or indirect involvement???
How's that Hope & Change working out???
DUH! :stupid:

[soonercruiser]

The muslims of the Middle East are like the children in the novel Lord of the Flies. They have no concept of the higher principles of human interaction and civility. Even the House of Saud is a corrupt and immoral den of perverts that mistreats and subjugates its own citizens for its greedy self benefit. And they actively try to re-direct the crazy lunatics in their country toward the US and Israel.

They are not worth the blood of one more of our sons or daughters.

THIS ^^^^^^
So, unfortunately, when you have to "deal with them", you do it from a standpoint of brute strength - force!
That is all they understand.
They will hate you either way.

BOOM!
You probably don't stay around to think that you can re-educate Muslim extremists about the values and need for freedom. They do not have "it" in their DNA.

[8timechamps]

It should come as no surprise that US support for the so-called "Arab Spring" has come back to bite us in the *** -- a result that was predicted by everyone with an iota of common sense.

Obama and Bush are both at fault for pursuing a nearly identical Wilsonian foreign policy that replaces rational pragmatism with naive idealism. A "forward leaning" policy of promoting democracy and respect for the rule of law in a region that is neither familiar with nor accepting of either must be stopped. We promote our own western European/American ideas and principles at our own peril -- it births the sort of resentment that is the catalyst for the recruitment of "terrorists" and attacks upon our nation abroad and at home.

The United States should never have supported the overthrow of Gaddafi. One of the very few foreign policy triumphs of the Bush administration were the years spent tirelessly negotiating with Gaddafi ultimately resulting in his renouncement of foreign terrorism and the abandonment of his 'wmd' programs -- in addition to providing the United States with intelligence regarding regional terrorism. To turn around and then support his overthrow was a warning to others that it does not pay to work, diplomatically, with the United States. It will only get harder for the United States to work diplomatically with foreign leaders with a less than pristine human rights record; nonetheless, we need to work with these people to further our interests regardless of how morally bankrupt they may be.

Likewise, it was absolutely shameful of the United States to abandon Mubarak in Egypt. Mubarak was an ally of the Untied States for decades not only providing us with intelligence and assistance in the region but also keeping the peace with Israel and the more hardcore Islamist in his own country in check. Again, we abandoned him at our own peril preferring to believe the make believe fiction that the revolutionary movement in Egypt was interested in creating a democratic government based on the rule of law.

For that matter, Clinton deserves his fair share of blame for opposing Milosevic in Bosnia for the same reasons mentioned above.

Nonetheless, anyone who forces themselves onto our embassy grounds should be shot on sight by the US Marine Corps. It absolutely astounds me that we allowed another embassy to be sacked. This weak defense of US soil only increases the danger for our embassy personnel all over the world as it sends the message that we will not defend our embassy staff or even our ambassadors.

Obama's actions in this matter have been negligent at best and out right criminal at worst.

Good God, I agree with something you posted. ;)

[LiveLaughLove]

I thought the world loved us now that Bush the Evil is gone and Obama the Magnificent was in office. Guess not.

Here's something that was interesting to me.

The last Ambassador killed was in 1979.

Carter criticized Reagan for having a "shoot first and ask questions later" idea of foreign policy. Sound familiar?

Obama is Carter. Unfortunately, I don't think Romney is Reagan, but he's a heck of a lot closer to it than Obama.

I also just read that the US Ambassador to Egypt would not allow the Marines to carry live ammo. I wonder if she has rescinded that idiotic order.

[soonercruiser]

And today,the embassy in Yemen!!!

[C&CDean]

Oh goody. Let's love them to death.

[Wishboned]

I thought the world loved us now that Bush the Evil is gone and Obama the Magnificent was in office. Guess not.

Here's something that was interesting to me.

The last Ambassador killed was in 1979.

Carter criticized Reagan for having a "shoot first and ask questions later" idea of foreign policy. Sound familiar?

Obama is Carter. Unfortunately, I don't think Romney is Reagan, but he's a heck of a lot closer to it than Obama.

I also just read that the US Ambassador to Egypt would not allow the Marines to carry live ammo. I wonder if she has rescinded that idiotic order.


The funniest thing about what Carter said about Reagan was that Reagan was just as weak in regards to terror as Carter was. More Americans were killed by terrorist acts under Reagan without any action taken than any other president.

[soonercruiser]

But Wishbone!!
Doesn't Reagan get at least 4 years to blame on his predecessor?
Or, do we blame a "Bush" ahead of time?

[BigTip]

But Wishbone!!
Doesn't Reagan get at least 4 years to blame on his predecessor?
Or, do we blame a "Bush" ahead of time?

"It's going to be Bush's fault"

:upset:

lol

[Wishboned]

But Wishbone!!
Doesn't Reagan get at least 4 years to blame on his predecessor?
Or, do we blame a "Bush" ahead of time?


Oh everyone blamed Carter. They still blame Carter because of the Iran hostage crisis. "His inaction emboldened the terrorists!"


Now are you going to call me racist again?

[SCOUT]

The muslims of the Middle East are like the children in the novel Lord of the Flies. They have no concept of the higher principles of human interaction and civility. Even the House of Saud is a corrupt and immoral den of perverts that mistreats and subjugates its own citizens for its greedy self benefit. And they actively try to re-direct the crazy lunatics in their country toward the US and Israel.

They are not worth the blood of one more of our sons or daughters.
I really like this analogy. We are Piggy holding on the conch shell asking everyone to listen to reason. The problem is that the hunters aren't listening to reason, they are listening to their base instincts.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well, it was all Carter's fault. He is a limped dick arse. I lived in GA when he was gov. It took two administrations to fixed what he ****ed up there. Now we are finding that the FedGov had credible intelligence that an attack would happen three days prior to the incident and the Egyptian ambass. Would not allow Marine's to carry ammo. This admin is so ****ing clueless and impotent that they do not deserve another chance for anything, not even dog catcher.

KFC says profits will be cut by TheSocialistcare, or they will force everyone into the singlepayer system, Sen. Kerry running for his old seat said the same thing, he would rather pay the penalty than pay for the coverage he offers today.

The First Socialist says obesity is the number one thing enemy in this country. Not terrorists, not the economy, not the debt!

The socialist in chief will not meet with Israel, but will meet the Muslim Brotherhood. He goes to do Letterman, fund raises in Las Vegas...

Wake up Americe, The Socialist lies with everything he says. He dosn't care about the country, except to change in ways he sees fit as with Valerie Jarret, Bill Ayers, Abner Mikva and Saul Alinsky. Look them up, read about them, thats is The Socialists, or the Choomsters America.

[Wishboned]

Well, it was all Carter's fault. He is a limped dick arse. I lived in GA when he was gov. It took two administrations to fixed what he ****ed up there. Now we are finding that the FedGov had credible intelligence that an attack would happen three days prior to the incident and the Egyptian ambass. Would not allow Marine's to carry ammo. This admin is so ****ing clueless and impotent that they do not deserve another chance for anything, not even dog catcher.

KFC says profits will be cut by TheSocialistcare, or they will force everyone into the singlepayer system, Sen. Kerry running for his old seat said the same thing, he would rather pay the penalty than pay for the coverage he offers today.

The First Socialist says obesity is the number one thing enemy in this country. Not terrorists, not the economy, not the debt!

The socialist in chief will not meet with Israel, but will meet the Muslim Brotherhood. He goes to do Letterman, fund raises in Las Vegas...

Wake up Americe, The Socialist lies with everything he says. He dosn't care about the country, except to change in ways he sees fit as with Valerie Jarret, Bill Ayers, Abner Mikva and Saul Alinsky. Look them up, read about them, thats is The Socialists, or the Choomsters America.


You think Carter was weak? Reagan allowed over 400 Americans to die at the hands of terrorists while he was in office. He only retaliated once. Against Libya in 1986. There was no retaliation for the 241 service members who were killed by a truck bombing in Lebabnon in 1983. Instead we withdrew the Marines stationed there.

[Curly Bill]

You think Carter was weak? Reagan allowed over 400 Americans to die at the hands of terrorists while he was in office. He only retaliated once. Against Libya in 1986. There was no retaliation for the 241 service members who were killed by a truck bombing in Lebabnon in 1983. Instead we withdrew the Marines stationed there.

What does whatever Reagan did have to do with Carter?

[Wishboned]

What does whatever Reagan did have to do with Carter?

We're discussing the relative weakness of presidents in regards to terrorism.

[Curly Bill]

We're discussing the relative weakness of presidents in regards to terrorism.

We were? And I thought you were trying to excuse the Carter presidency by pointing out Reagan wasn't perfect either??

[Wishboned]

We were? And I thought you were trying to excuse the Carter presidency by pointing out Reagan wasn't perfect either??

You would be incorrect. Carter opened the door. Once they were in the door Reagan bent over and welcomed them with open cheeks.

[Curly Bill]

You would be incorrect. Carter opened the door. Once they were in the door Reagan bent over and welcomed them with open cheeks.

Your extremely hyperbolic concluding statement would in fact prove that I was correct.

[Wishboned]

Your extremely hyperbolic concluding statement would in fact prove that I was correct.

It doesn't prove anything other than your defensiveness when it comes to any criticism of a president with (R) after their name.

[Curly Bill]

It doesn't prove anything other than your defensiveness when it comes to any criticism of a president with (R) after their name.

Mistaken again, plenty of presidents with R's after their name have sucked mightily. None of their suckiness though makes Carter any less of a total loser than he was. Keep trying, you might get something right yet today.

[C&CDean]

Comparing Carter to Reagan would be like comparing Pee Wee Herman to Ahnold.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president to serve during my lifetime. Trying to cherrypick a Reagan situation and use it to say Carter was tougher on terrorism is pure bull butter and you know it. I served in the military under Carter. I know what I'm talking about.

[Wishboned]

Mistaken again, plenty of presidents with R's after their name have sucked mightily. None of their suckiness though makes Carter any less of a total loser than he was. Keep trying, you might get something right yet today.

And when I do I will be one ahead of you. If you can find a quote anywhere where I say Carter was even a good president I will bow before you and claim your message board superiority.



There hasn't been a good president in this country since Truman left office.

[Wishboned]

Comparing Carter to Reagan would be like comparing Pee Wee Herman to Ahnold.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president to serve during my lifetime. Trying to cherrypick a Reagan situation and use it to say Carter was tougher on terrorism is pure bull butter and you know it. I served in the military under Carter. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't have to cherry pick Dean. There were multiple incidents of terrorist attacks while Reagan was in office that went without retaliation.

And I served in the Army under Reagan so I know what I'm talking about.

[olevetonahill]

I served under Johnson and Nixon of the 2 I dint like em much

[C&CDean]

I don't have to cherry pick Dean. There were multiple incidents of terrorist attacks while Reagan was in office that went without retaliation.

And I served in the Army under Reagan so I know what I'm talking about.

Are you sure they went without retaliation? List them all. Or maybe you didn't know?

And while we're on the subject, did you get kevlar? Updated gear? Better weapons/commo?

I was stuck with WWII gear. Same web gear, etc. from WWII. PRC-77 radios that never worked. Our meals were C-Rats from the 1940s and 50s. Our howitzer ammo was from the 1950s. I never had an MRE till I got out of the military. WWII barracks. On and on. I was jealous of you guys who served under Reagan.

[Wishboned]

Are you sure they went without retaliation? List them all. Or maybe you didn't know?

And while we're on the subject, did you get kevlar? Updated gear? Better weapons/commo?

I was stuck with WWII gear. Same web gear, etc. from WWII. PRC-77 radios that never worked. Our meals were C-Rats from the 1940s and 50s. Our howitzer ammo was from the 1950s. I never had an MRE till I got out of the military. WWII barracks. On and on. I was jealous of you guys who served under Reagan.

I have a list at home. I'll have to post it later this evening. Because of some of the work I did and what I was exposed to it's been a major point of interest for me.

When I first came into the Army the special ops and some of the airborne units were the only ones to have Kevlar. The rest were stuck with steel pots. The same applied to weapons.

While we did receive newer equipment we were also subjected to major force reductions. I was actually forced out 90 days early because of the cuts. From 86 to 88 it progressed from 30 to 60 to 90 days.

[LiveLaughLove]

I served under Reagan (his early days). We still had the steel pots and no kevlar. I did eat an MRE way late in to my time in, and hated it. We would trade them to guys 3 to 1 C-rats to MRE. They didn't know what they were getting.

We still had jeeps also. We did have TOW missiles, not bazookas thank goodness.

The Bradleys were just out, and got to qualify gunner in one of those. Then never saw another one. Have forgotten what the MOS was, 11HE9 (that might be what the APC TOWs were, qualified on them too) or something like that. My memory isn't what it used to be.

I was upset about our pulling out of Lebanon over the bombing, but then, why be there in the first place.

What Reagan did do, is stem the tide of communism which had ran rampant while Carter was CIC.

[Wishboned]

I tried posting this last night, but got the Omega error. Sorry it's later than when I said.

This was Reagan's record on terrorism.


1983 - Bombing at United States Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983. 17 Americans, are killed. Reagan called it a cowardly act. The next day aid for Lebanon was approved for $251 million dollars.

1983 - Beirut barracks bombing, October 23, 1983. 241 US servicemen (including the largest number of Marines killed in a single day attack since the attack on Iwo Jima) are killed by 2 suicide bombers. The rules of engagement slowed the guards at the gate from opening fire. At almost the same time a barracks full of French soldiers was hit in the same way. In retaliation for the attacks, France launched an air strike in the Beqaa Valley against Iranian Revolutionary Guard positions. President Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. (For me this was the big one. It was what motivated me to join the Army.)

1983 - December 12 - A truck laden with 45 large cylinders of gas connected to plastic explosives broke through the front gates of the American Embassy in Kuwait City. No Americans were killed.

1984 - Two Americans were killed when a van loaded with four hundred pounds of explosives exploded in front of the U.S. Embassy annex in Awkar, Lebanon. Islamic Jihad (code name of Hezbollah) claimed responsibility for the bombing in a call to the media.

1985 - TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver is killed by Hezbollah.

1985 - Achille Lauro hijacking, Leon Klinghoffer,a wheel-chair bound American, was killed by Palestinian militants. The hijackers made a deal for safe passage to Tunisia. The plane carrying the hijackers was later forced down by American fighters to an airfield in Sicily, and a standoff occurred between Italian and Navy Seals. The hijackers were arrested, with the exception of their leader, Muhammad Zaidan, who was allowed to continue on to his destination.

1986 - Four Americans were killed and five Americans were injured when a bomb exploded aboard TWA Flight 840 as it traveled from Rome to Athens. The aircraft was able to land safely at Athens International Airport.

1986 - On April 5, a Berlin discotheque bombing killed 2 US servicemen and injured more than 50 American servicemen. 10 days later US fighters bombed Libya in what

1986 - February Lisbon. A group calling itself the Popular Forces of 25 April detonated a car bomb outside the US Embassy. There were no casualties.

1986 - May 14th - The embassy in Jakarta was struck by a mortar barrage by the Japanese Red Army. There were no casualties.

1987 - 9 June - The embassy in Rome was struck by a mortar barrage by the Japanese Red Army. There were no casualties.


1988 - On April 14 at 8 p.m., a car bomb exploded in front of the USO Club in Naples, Italy. Five people died and fifteen were injured, including four U.S. servicemen who were injured and US Navy Petty Officer Angela Santos, 21, was killed. Junzo Okudaira, a Japanese Red Army (JRA) member, was indicted in the United States on April 9, 1993 for the Naples bombing. Okudaira is also a suspect in the June 1987 car bombing and mortar attack against the U.S. Embassy in Rome.

1988 - Pan Am Flight 103: 190 Americans died. One man, Ali Mohmet al-Megrahi, was convicted in a Scottish court of the bombings. He was sentenced to life imprisonment, but later given a compassionate release in August of 2009, and returned home to Libya where he died as a result of prostate cancer in May of 2012.

As a footnote In October 2008 Libya paid $1.5 billion into a fund which will be used to compensate relatives of the Lockerbie bombing victims with the remaining 20% of the sum agreed in 2003; American victims of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing; American victims of the 1989 UTA Flight 772 bombing; and, Libyan victims of the 1986 US bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi.

By my count that is 462 Americans killed by terrorists during thirteen separate attacks during the Reagan years.

Reagan had his own hostage crisis to deal with, nothing even close to the scale of the Iranian hostage crisis as they were only on an individual basis, but the majority were held for over a year:


Charles Glass - he was held for over 60 days before he escaped.
David Dodge - held for over a year
Lawrence Jenco - held for 564 days
Benjamin Wier - held for 16 months.
Thomas Sutherland - 2353 days. That's over 6 years.
And Terry Anderson who was held for even longer. He was a hostage from March 16, 1985 until December 4, 1991.

And no Dean, I can't say with 100% certainty that there was no retaliation. But I have to believe if there was we would have known about it by now.

[StoopTroup]

Wasn't Ronnie Ray-gun teh most awesome?

Dont get me wrong...I voted for him twice and think his exit speech from the White House was one of the best there will probably ever be but he was just a Man and a pretty good POTUS during Times that were full of turmoil.

Wishbone, you're right. Ron wasnt immune and I think it's pretty disgusting people are turning this current event into some sort of Political Ping Pong Ball.

[Blue]

24 hour shock jock sensationalist media and the internet has taken armchair generals and presidents to the next level. Scary thing for me is it has revealed (along with getting older) that most if not all people don't know ****.

Might as well sit back, grab some popcorn, and protect what matters.

[StoopTroup]

24 hour shock jock sensationalist media and the internet has taken armchair generals and presidents to the next level. Scary thing for me is it has revealed (along with getting older) that most if not all people don't know ****.

Might as well sit back, grab some popcorn, and protect what matters.

I don't know why most if not all don't know **** is to shocking. After 9-11-2001 the 9-11 Report as well as people in many of our intelligence communities all admitted one might have intel another one did or didn't have and many of them protected what they knew from those who we all thought were working together.

President Bush tried to fix that with the Homeland Security and Patriot Acts. There may have even been just handshake deals that promised to try to work together for the security and safety of America.

I think it's obvious that we can't foresee everything and that Embassies and Consulates are at risk in many areas.

[Blue]

Yeah their answer to people attacking us is to pass laws that limit our freedoms. What a cluster..

[StoopTroup]

Speaking of clusters. I am at the movies seeing The Dark Knight with my Daughter. ARGO Trailer looks pretty good.

[olevetonahill]

Speaking of clusters. I am at the movies seeing The Dark Knight with my Daughter. ARGO Trailer looks pretty good.

Ur at the Movies with ur Daughter? Yet ur posting stupid shat here?
Like I said
ur weird

[StoopTroup]

Ur at the Movies with ur Daughter? Yet ur posting stupid shat here?
Like I said
ur weird

I know the Movies down in Wister are done on a white sheet.

Here in the City the trailers are around 25 minutes long and not all of them are very good.

Also....unless you know what ARGO is about....you wouldn't understand why I even posted about it. One man's weird is another ones ignorance. Why don't you go get in your truck and go climb up the LeFlore County Sheriffs ***?

The other thing kind of screwy about you even posting is? WTF is it to you? You still haven't just put me on ignore? It's not to hard. While you there looking at my profile to see what thread I'm looking at....you can click the ignore feature. Then you don't have to be bothered by the Weirdness.

Anyone have a 14 year old Daughter with a Smart Phone? Mine has around 20 friends and they are all texting and FBing either other. I'm just glad I didn't have to force her to turn the phone off once the Movie started. She's just like damn near every other kid in the theater and loves chatting when she isn't busy with Homework or a Special Project, Band, Jazz Band, Tennis or helping do chores around the house. Yeah I let her text awhile at the movies Vet. Get a grip you ole fart.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w918Eh3fij0

[olevetonahill]

Just sayin if i was at the Movies with my Daughter Id be spending time with Her not postin about crap on a message board , But you go ahead and get yer panties in a wad if you want :cheerful:

[StoopTroup]

Just sayin if i was at the Movies with my Daughter Id be spending time with Her not postin about crap on a message board , But you go ahead and get yer panties in a wad if you want :cheerful:

Maybe you don't get to see yours much but I had Daddy Daughter time since Friday Night when I went to the Football Game with her and my Son and two other boys and watched her perform with the Band till Momma packed up yesterday Morning and left with the boy to Gene Leroy Hart Camp Grounds. They had a Momma and Son Campout. So my Daughter and I spent all day and last night late at the Movie's and she was happy to have a Dad that took time to take her. Also...she can read and she kind of wonders what the hell is wrong with you that you have to make a comment about how I spend time with her. She knows just like you would take a bullet for your Daughter that her Dad would do the same. I guess you just had to be there with us all day to understand. It's all good here. Matter a fact once Momma and the boy got Home this morning she got out of bed and helped us unload the camping gear out of the truck without me asking and it can't be put up yet so she's even helping to clean and lay out all the wet stuff to dry. I'm raising her right Vet. She's a great kid with a great Dad no matter what you think.

[olevetonahill]

Maybe you don't get to see yours much but I had Daddy Daughter time since Friday Night when I went to the Football Game with her and my Son and two other boys and watched her perform with the Band till Momma packed up yesterday Morning and left with the boy to Gene Leroy Hart Camp Grounds. They had a Momma and Son Campout. So my Daughter and I spent all day and last night late at the Movie's and she was happy to have a Dad that took time to take her. Also...she can read and she kind of wonders what the hell is wrong with you that you have to make a comment about how I spend time with her. She knows just like you would take a bullet for your Daughter that her Dad would do the same. I guess you just had to be there with us all day to understand. It's all good here. Matter a fact once Momma and the boy got Home this morning she got out of bed and helped us unload the camping gear out of the truck without me asking and it can't be put up yet so she's even helping to clean and lay out all the wet stuff to dry. I'm raising her right Vet. She's a great kid with a great Dad no matter what you think.

Ive always said you have 2 great kids, All im saying is when I spend time with MY kids I spend that TIME with them not on the ****in internet, But you just keep on. Yer doing Great

[StoopTroup]

You didn't have to deal with the Internet and kids having smartphones when you raised yours so you just don't understand. All I'm saying is you don't have to be a judgmental prick about how a 30 second thought I quickly posted via my smart phone stole the precious time you think some of us could be spending explaining to them on how to make a nice poke salad during a movie trailer that they might be better off not seeing

[olevetonahill]

You didn't have to deal with the Internet and kids having smartphones when you raised yours so you just don't understand. All I'm saying is you don't have to be a judgmental prick about how a 30 second thought I quickly posted via my smart phone stole the precious time you think some of us could be spending explaining to them on how to make a nice poke salad during a movie trailer that they might be better off not seeing

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AN0MLXGk7IQ/UA8it9UBymI/AAAAAAAAAJA/VT7514B_Wns/s1600/pib.jpg

[Turd_Ferguson]

:pop:

[olevetonahill]

:pop:

Are you being a "Judgmental Prick" ?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Naw...I'm not judgmental.

[okie52]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AN0MLXGk7IQ/UA8it9UBymI/AAAAAAAAAJA/VT7514B_Wns/s1600/pib.jpg

LOL

[soonercruiser]

After grilling out, we spent the evening at the movie with our niece.....seeing "Last Ounce of Courage".
A real tear jerker.
FREEDOM BABY!

[olevetonahill]

After grilling out, we spent the evening at the movie with our niece.....seeing "Last Ounce of Courage".
A real tear jerker.
FREEDOM BABY!

You went to the Movies with a Family member and didnt Post here ? WTF is wrong with you?

[okie52]

You went to the Movies with a Family member and didnt Post here ? WTF is wrong with you?

He might have actually turned his cellphone off during the previews when it requested him to.

[olevetonahill]

He might have actually turned his cellphone off during the previews when it requested him to.

Well thats just almost UnAmerican

[okie52]

Well thats just almost UnAmerican

Pretty barbaric...2hrs without phone or Internet is something they reserve for gitmo.

[SCOUT]

Pretty barbaric...2hrs without phone or Internet is something they reserve for gitmo.

I am confident those in Gitmo have constant access to cellphones and wifi. ;)

[okie52]

I am confident those in Gitmo have constant access to cellphones and wifi. ;)

I'm sure that's restricted to just the trustees.

[olevetonahill]

I'm sure that's restricted to just the trustees.

They can use them only when they are spending time with their close relatives

[StoopTroup]

Yeah...my panties are in such a bunch...


Ive always said you have 2 great kids

One thing I know is this....they just don't get that way by taking them to the movies and ignoring them for 30 seconds while you post about a Movie Trailer you just saw that you thought folks you know might like.

My panties get in a bunch when you take your kid to a PG Movie and they show nearly R-rated Trailers prior to the movie.

Amazing Turd is here to help try and flame the thread you crapped in. What a shock. I can always count on the Good Ole Posse being such a nice bunch of guys that never do anything wrong. It's no wonder you lose friends and people quit coming around. You really are better off staying in that shack on the hill and spending most of your time there until they either throw dirt on you or that weenie dog turns you into a meal.....lol

[olevetonahill]

Yeah...my panties are in such a bunch...



One thing I know is this....they just don't get that way by taking them to the movies and ignoring them for 30 seconds while you post about a Movie Trailer you just saw that you thought folks you know might like.

My panties get in a bunch when you take your kid to a PG Movie and they show nearly R-rated Trailers prior to the movie.

Amazing Turd is here to help try and flame the thread you crapped in. What a shock. I can always count on the Good Ole Posse being such a nice bunch of guys that never do anything wrong. It's no wonder you lose friends and people quit coming around. You really are better off staying in that shack on the hill and spending most of your time there until they either throw dirt on you or that weenie dog turns you into a meal.....lol

Ya know Greg. I asked folks to back off and leave you alone for a Long time. You kept throwing yer little Snipe attacks at me over the months and I ignored em for the Most part. I aint ignoring em anymore . I considered You a Good friend , You got ur panties all wadded up yer crack and huffed off , Just like you did at Dean here , then came back making even less sense than you had been.

So Yea when I see you say something Stupid Ima laugh my *** off and point it out.

So Have a happy time in what ever little bottle you use now

[StoopTroup]

Ya know Greg. I asked folks to back off and leave you alone for a Long time. You kept throwing yer little Snipe attacks at me over the months and I ignored em for the Most part. I aint ignoring em anymore . I considered You a Good friend , You got ur panties all wadded up yer crack and huffed off , Just like you did at Dean here , then came back making even less sense than you had been.

So Yea when I see you say something Stupid Ima laugh my *** off and point it out.

So Have a happy time in what ever little bottle you use now

So you say. You can prove everything you are saying I'm sure. I have never posted or logged into your website again. I've never gone snooping around wondering if you are talking about me. I simply came here. i didn't ever ask anyone at your board to leave and come with me either. I simply told you I didn't wish to be a part of whatever you are doing over there. I think Bill would be pretty upset that you feel the way you do and he'd tell you how wrong you are.

I don't have any problem with Dean either. I do think he ought to throw in the Mod towel though. It might not hurt to take a break from it and just be one of us. You know....people who post and talk football and politics and tell jokes or post an interesting story. Policing this board seems to have become the only reason he's here anymore. It's to bad he can't post without having someone pissed off at him or holding a grudge because he gave them time off.

Believe me....I know what it's like. After you and some of us from your board did neg jihads on certain people....they have grudges and problems with not only me but you as well. You and Slick....not really to friendly huh? It's not the first time someone has left your board and you got your feelings hurt or it has ended in a very Un-friendly way. I'm really trying to avoid that but when you post something about the way I raise or spend time with my kids, you are baiting me.

It's going to be OK Vet. I just chose to leave your board. You think it's because I got my panties in a wad about something. It was because I didn't think it would make a difference if I really told you why I left. I thought just leaving would be the best thing. You know....no helander posts....just a message letting you know i don't want to be associated with your board anymore. No personal attack. I just left. People are who they are when they get older. I just want you to be happy out there in your shack and leave me the hell alone. I don't go PMing anyone letting them know you posted something and asking them to try and flame your posts.

Even your last statement has to get personal. It says a lot about your character.

Still. I want you to know....even though you told me you had given up on God.....I'm still praying for your soul. So are my kids. I'm sorry if leaving the hideout hurt your feeling so badly that you have to try and prove to people that I have some sort or a bunch of problems. I really don't. Life is as good here in StoopTroup Land as it's ever been. Would I like some things to be a bit better? Sure. I'm betting everyone here feels that way.

You really ought to just put me on ignore until you figure out that I'm not taking personal shots at you just because I may not agree with you about something. I do think that sometimes, something I post doesn't translate into what I was trying to express and if you are still sitting in a tree like a vulture waiting to point out things I say....you really ought to just go back over to the hideout if you can't just ignore me.

Ninety-nine percent of what I post has nothing to do with you or anyone at your website. The other 1% might because I still have friends who are trying to stay out of whatever you are trying to stir up.

If you want to spend time finding examples trying to prove that I do....knock yourself out. I know in my heart that I do really try to just be the StoopTroup who started posting here before I ever met a guy named Olevet or started going to SFs Tailgates. I have found another bunch of folks to hang out with and I continue to live a really full life. I suggest you do the same.

[olevetonahill]

Im so happy for you

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah...my panties are in such a bunch...



One thing I know is this....they just don't get that way by taking them to the movies and ignoring them for 30 seconds while you post about a Movie Trailer you just saw that you thought folks you know might like.

My panties get in a bunch when you take your kid to a PG Movie and they show nearly R-rated Trailers prior to the movie.

Amazing Turd is here to help try and flame the thread you crapped in. What a shock. I can always count on the Good Ole Posse being such a nice bunch of guys that never do anything wrong. It's no wonder you lose friends and people quit coming around. You really are better off staying in that shack on the hill and spending most of your time there until they either throw dirt on you or that weenie dog turns you into a meal.....lol
What is "nearly rated R?" Wouldn't "nearly Rated R" be a PG-13?

[StoopTroup]

What is "nearly rated R?" Wouldn't "nearly Rated R" be a PG-13?
I'll be glad to take you to a movie sometime and show you what I mean. I'll even get you some popcorn.

[StoopTroup]

Im so happy for you Thank goodness for that. Now you don't have to keep prayin' for me Bro.

[olevetonahill]

Thank goodness for that. Now you don't have to keep prayin' for me Bro.

Its ok, I dont mind, Im surprised that you find it strange that I asked the Posse to Pray for you and your family. We are all friends even if you did get your feelings hurt and leave.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;