WHITE HOUSE DENIES JESUS

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/white-house-declines-netanyahu-request-to-meet-with-obama.premium-1.464328



The White House declined Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's request on Tuesday to meet U.S. President Barack Obama during a UN conference in New York at the end of the month.

The White House National Security Council Spokesman Tommy Vietor told Haaretz the two would not meet due to a scheduling conflict. "The President arrives in New York for the UN on Monday, September 24th and departs on Tuesday, September 25th. The Prime Minister doesn’t arrive in New York until later in the week. They're simply not in the city at the same time."

Vietor did, however, say that Netanyahu and Obama are "in frequent contact" and that the PM would meet with other senior officials, including U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

An official in Jerusalem said that the Prime Minister's Office sent the White House a message stating that although Netanyahu will spend only two and a half days on U.S. soil, he is interested in meeting Obama and is willing to travel to the U.S. capital specifically for that purpose. The official added that the White House rejected the request and said that at this time Obama's schedule does not allow for a meeting.

Asked whether the president is ready to meet Netanyahu in Washington, Vietor said: "I don’t have a final schedule for the president for that whole week."

To get the latest news from Israel, the Middle East, and the Jewish World, subscribe to Haaretz’s digital edition, through our special High Holiday offer.

The White House's response marks a new low in relations between Netanyahu and Obama, underscored by the fact that this is the first time Netanyahu will visit the U.S. as prime minister without meeting the president.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak tried to ease the tension on Tuesday, saying that the differences between the U.S. and Israel should be ironed out "but behind closed doors."

"We must not forget that the U.S. is Israel's most important source of support in terms of security," he said in a statement.

Earlier on Tuesday, Netanyahu launched an unprecedented verbal attack on the U.S. government over its stance on the Iranian nuclear program.

"The world tells Israel 'wait, there's still time'. And I say, 'Wait for what? Wait until when?' Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don't have a moral right to place a red light before Israel," Netanyahu told reporters on Tuesday.

"Now if Iran knows that there is no red line. If Iran knows that there is no deadline, what will it do? Exactly what it's doing. It's continuing, without any interference, towards obtaining nuclear weapons capability and from there, nuclear bombs," he said.

U.S. Department of State spokeswoman Victoria Nuland stressed again on Tuesday that the U.S. administration doesn't see public discussion of Iranian nuclear program and red lines as useful. "We don't think it's particularly useful to have those conversations in public. It doesn't help the process and it doesn't help the integrity of the diplomacy. To be standing here at the podium parsing the details of the Iranian nuclear program is not helpful to getting where we want to go," she said, briefing the media.

White House spokesman Jay Carney reasserted the strong cooperative relationship between Israel and the U.S. on security. "We have extensive and ongoing conversations and contact with our close ally, Israel, on this issue as well as a wide variety of other security-related issues. We have the most comprehensive security and intelligence relationship with Israel in history, as attested to by not just leaders from this administration but from the Israeli government."

Also on Tuesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that if Iran decides to make a nuclear weapon, the United States would have a little more than a year to act to stop it.

[olevetonahill]

Boy, You need help in a bad way
I hope you get it .

[LiveLaughLove]

His parents must be very proud of him. Hard to believe someone actually raised him and this was the product of that raising. They need a mulligan.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

His parents must be very proud of him. Hard to believe someone actually raised him and this was the product of that raising. They need a mulligan.
http://i.imgur.com/FfdfP.jpg.

[olevetonahill]

Boy , Religion didnt cause 9-11
Angry old azzholes caused it acting in the Name of a relgion

[SoonerProphet]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/bibi-needs-a-time-out/

[LiveLaughLove]

Moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity holds no water with me. Islam is provably false. The sun doesn't set in a puddle of muddy water. The Earth is not flat and pinned down by the mountains.

The moon was not cut in two and is not made of actual cheese. A man's sperm does not come from his spine. All of these things the Quran states as fact.

Islam is most closely related to Mormonism. Not equating the two, just saying they are closer related. Both were created by a single man with a vision. There were no other witnesses to either's visions.

They both evolved to conveniently fit their leaders current circumstances. And on and on.

I can go several pages documenting reasonable and probable circumstantial evidence (all history is circumstantial since there are no eye witnesses alive today) for the truth of the Bible.

I'll just use this one for here:


The Book of Daniel says that King Belshazzar saw the hand writing on the wall. He offered to make Daniel third ruler of Babylon if he could interpret the writing. Why third ruler? Why not second ruler, like Pharaoh did Joseph?

And who is Belshazzar? Archaeology points to Nabonidus as being King of Babylon. This proves the Bible is false. Hold on.

Most scholars had always insisted the Book of Daniel was written in the second century BC. This is important because it means the prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's statue was not prophecy but simply a historical recreation.

In the 1970's, archaeologists found the Nabonidus Cylinder. It states that Nabonidus retired as King to a coastal city and made his son Belshazzar as co-regent. It's the only item to date that has the name Belshazzar on it.

It explains why he could only name Daniel as third ruler. It always reasonably dates the book to the sixth century BC, not the second. It's not reasonable to assume a writer 400 years later would have had a clue about someone named Belshazzar. (Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible, but it's not probable or reasonable.) He would have simply named Nabonidus as the ruler that the events happened to. Being written in the sixth century BC, makes the dream of Nebuchadnezzar's statue a prophecy, since the other 3 kingdoms did not exist yet.

There are hundreds more examples in both testaments to what some of you so flippantly say is a fairy tale. You may wish for there to be no God, but you don't have the power to make it so.

[okie52]

Now wait just a minute here...I thought the messiah was already in the White House?

[Blue]

"White House denies Jesus" - so what's new in the last 200 years?

[yermom]

Moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity holds no water with me. Islam is provably false. The sun doesn't set in a puddle of muddy water. The Earth is not flat and pinned down by the mountains.

The moon was not cut in two and is not made of actual cheese. A man's sperm does not come from his spine. All of these things the Quran states as fact.

Islam is most closely related to Mormonism. Not equating the two, just saying they are closer related. Both were created by a single man with a vision. There were no other witnesses to either's visions.

They both evolved to conveniently fit their leaders current circumstances. And on and on.

I can go several pages documenting reasonable and probable circumstantial evidence (all history is circumstantial since there are no eye witnesses alive today) for the truth of the Bible.

I'll just use this one for here:



There are hundreds more examples in both testaments to what some of you so flippantly say is a fairy tale. You may wish for there to be no God, but you don't have the power to make it so.

sooo... it's not likely that someone in the 2nd century BC would know about someone in the 6th century BC, yet somehow you are reading a book someone wrote in the 2nd century BC that is confirmed by a written record from the 6th century BC. you don't think it's possible there might have been records lost between now and then? or unwritten stories? don't a lot of Arabs trace back their families for many generations verbally?

"we don't know, God must have done it."

[Blue]

sooo... it's not likely that someone in the 2nd century BC would know about someone in the 6th century BC, yet somehow you are reading a book someone wrote in the 2nd century BC that is confirmed by a written record from the 6th century BC. you don't think it's possible there might have been records lost between now and then? or unwritten stories? don't a lot of Arabs trace back their families for many generations verbally?

"we don't know, God must have done it."

Funny how atheists even acknowledge BC and AC.

[Blue]

nm

[diverdog]

Moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity holds no water with me. Islam is provably false. The sun doesn't set in a puddle of muddy water. The Earth is not flat and pinned down by the mountains.

The moon was not cut in two and is not made of actual cheese. A man's sperm does not come from his spine. All of these things the Quran states as fact.

Islam is most closely related to Mormonism. Not equating the two, just saying they are closer related. Both were created by a single man with a vision. There were no other witnesses to either's visions.

They both evolved to conveniently fit their leaders current circumstances. And on and on.

I can go several pages documenting reasonable and probable circumstantial evidence (all history is circumstantial since there are no eye witnesses alive today) for the truth of the Bible.

I'll just use this one for here:



There are hundreds more examples in both testaments to what some of you so flippantly say is a fairy tale. You may wish for there to be no God, but you don't have the power to make it so.

Can you point to the verse that says the moon is not made of cheese in the Qu'ran?

[yermom]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-G8O_HZvGO68/UAGW2X_rjuI/AAAAAAAAARA/BDmcvTkMWaM/s1600/first+quarter.jpg

crap. score one for the Muslims.

[olevetonahill]

Moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity holds no water with me. Islam is provably false. The sun doesn't set in a puddle of muddy water. The Earth is not flat and pinned down by the mountains.

The moon was not cut in two and is not made of actual cheese. A man's sperm does not come from his spine. All of these things the Quran states as fact.

Islam is most closely related to Mormonism. Not equating the two, just saying they are closer related. Both were created by a single man with a vision. There were no other witnesses to either's visions.

They both evolved to conveniently fit their leaders current circumstances. And on and on.

I can go several pages documenting reasonable and probable circumstantial evidence (all history is circumstantial since there are no eye witnesses alive today) for the truth of the Bible.

I'll just use this one for here:



There are hundreds more examples in both testaments to what some of you so flippantly say is a fairy tale. You may wish for there to be no God, but you don't have the power to make it so.


Can you point to the verse that says the moon is not made of cheese in the Qu'ran?


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-G8O_HZvGO68/UAGW2X_rjuI/AAAAAAAAARA/BDmcvTkMWaM/s1600/first+quarter.jpg

crap. score one for the Muslims.

OK you two, While I freely admit I dont Jack **** about that book of theirs . I think what hes sayin is They say that stuff is true. The Moon is made of cheese the Earth is flat etc.
Like I said Aint got a clue , Thats just the way I read it .

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://i.imgur.com/Aej2n.jpg

link to readable size. http://i.imgur.com/Aej2n.jpg

The bible has some entertaining science as well.

RE Mormonism, its like Christian fan fiction

[cleller]

After reading these things, all I can do is hope the Bible is a great roadmap to future events.

[KantoSooner]

How can it not be? Anything you want is in there. Having verses that support any possible outcome make being 'right' a lot easier.

Oh, those cunning monks!

[sappstuf]

OP, can you please rename this thread to "White House War on Jesus"?

TIA.

[KantoSooner]

I especially treasure a picture my daughter drew when she was about 5. It showed Santa Claus, Jesus and Buddha headin' out to beat up Mohammed. The Smurfs were in there, too; but I don't think they were crucial to the narrative.
Apparently the nun running the kindergarten had been less than fully successful in inculcating the faith.
Either that or my daughter was a particularly witty and precocious political cartoonist.

[TitoMorelli]

OP, can you please rename this thread to "White House War on Jesus"?

TIA.

Are you collecting shirtless Tebow pix or something?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity holds no water with me. Islam is provably false. The sun doesn't set in a puddle of muddy water. The Earth is not flat and pinned down by the mountains.

The moon was not cut in two and is not made of actual cheese. A man's sperm does not come from his spine. All of these things the Quran states as fact.

Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.

The moon may not be cheese, but it is also not a light

Deut 14:11-18 And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, the kite, the falcon of any kind, every raven of any kind, the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind,the little owl, the cormorant, the short-eared owl, the barn owl, the tawny owl, the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.

Bats are not birds

Matthew 13:31-32 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

A mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

[soonercruiser]

Obama made a smaller seed?

[LiveLaughLove]

Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.

The moon may not be cheese, but it is also not a light

Deut 14:11-18 And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, the kite, the falcon of any kind, every raven of any kind, the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind,the little owl, the cormorant, the short-eared owl, the barn owl, the tawny owl, the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.

Bats are not birds

Matthew 13:31-32 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

A mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

Is this seriously the best you can do? You're very soul is at stake and you think you are being clever with this stuff?

The Quran is said to be the actual writing of God. It is said to be the same exactly now as it has always been (even though there was almost a civil war over different versions, but I digress). It tells stories that are taken as literally happening.

The Bible is said to be the inspired word of God written by men. Genesis and Revelations especially are allegorical to a great extent. It's almost poetry describing events. Genesis past events, Revelations future ones.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with calling the Moon a light. It does not emit it's OWN light, but the Bible doesn't claim that. If I board a plane in OKC and am going to California, but I have a layover in Denver, I still say the plane is an OKC to California plane. Light is still light regardless of if it is redirected or not.

Animals were not classified back then as they are now. Birds were flying animals. All flying animals were considered "'owph" the ancient hebrew word for "owner of wings", including even some insects. The translators (the KJV ones) used the best word they could to represent the group of animals listed there. The Bible isn't in error. The translators are, but it really has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. Only yapping dogs nipping at heels worry about minor things like that.

The mustard seed WAS the smallest seed that anyone Jesus was speaking to would have known of. If he had said the orchid seed (certainly close to being the very smallest), it would have meant nothing to his listeners. They would have just sat there slack jawed. But a mustard seed they knew instantly. Even today we understand instantly what Jesus was speaking of, the fact that we now know smaller seeds doesn't change the context of the scripture.

Nothing on Jesus himself?

Here's a couple for you:

Jesus' brother James denounced Christ while he was alive. He didn't believe him or his mother's story. Yet, AFTER the resurrection, he became such a devout follower that the apostles named him the head of the church in Jerusalem. James was killed by the Pharisee's for not renouncing Jesus. He was thrown from a roof, lived, and was beaten to death proclaiming the divinity of Christ. What changed him? Was he part of the conspiracy to defraud people by claiming a false resurrection? What was his motive? Money? He got paid an equal portion of the widows and orphans fund. That was next to nothing. Power? He and the church was in hiding. Sex? No proof one way or the other here, but once more, they were in hiding. Would be rather difficult. So why the transformation from intent skeptic to absolute martyr?

The apostles themselves hid out. Peter denied him three times after the arrest. In fact, he cursed people out for saying he was one of his followers. Yet after the resurrection the apostles went across the world preaching what they had witnessed. The were stoned, chastised, and eventually all killed except for John who was exiled to a small island. Peter even asked to be crucified upside down, because he wasn't worthy to be crucified the same way as the Lord. None of them ever denied what had happened. Were they after power? They didn't get it in this life. Money? They worked actual jobs in the cities the preached in for pay. Sex? Once more, doesn't seem plausible.

The two I asked aren't heel nipping. They get to the heart of the matter. Either these guys were the best conspirators in history (nothing remarkable about any of them pre-Jesus) and were able to keep their conspiracy as they travelled the known world without ever confessing it, despite horrifically torturous deaths. Or they witnessed what they said.

Maybe you can explain the Cambrian explosion. Or maybe tell me which humans are the furthest in evolution currently today, so I can go hang with 'em. Which animal alive today has evolutionary extra's that we can witness? I want to see extra arms, legs, eyes, etc in some sort of pseudo-transformation in evolution. Why are mosquito's the exact same today as they were millions of years ago? Why aren't they and many many other species not evolving at all? Show me the proof, otherwise it's all just mythological fairy tales of a 19th century mind.

[Sooner98]

http://i.imgur.com/FfdfP.jpg.

We don't have to imagine no religion. History can speak for itself on the subject of atheism, and how many innocent people have needlessly died as a result of it:

http://www.christianaction.org.za/firearmnews/2004-04_thegreatestkiller.htm

[Soonerjeepman]

Is this seriously the best you can do? You're very soul is at stake and you think you are being clever with this stuff?

The Quran is said to be the actual writing of God. It is said to be the same exactly now as it has always been (even though there was almost a civil war over different versions, but I digress). It tells stories that are taken as literally happening.

The Bible is said to be the inspired word of God written by men. Genesis and Revelations especially are allegorical to a great extent. It's almost poetry describing events. Genesis past events, Revelations future ones.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with calling the Moon a light. It does not emit it's OWN light, but the Bible doesn't claim that. If I board a plane in OKC and am going to California, but I have a layover in Denver, I still say the plane is an OKC to California plane. Light is still light regardless of if it is redirected or not.

Animals were not classified back then as they are now. Birds were flying animals. All flying animals were considered "'owph" the ancient hebrew word for "owner of wings", including even some insects. The translators (the KJV ones) used the best word they could to represent the group of animals listed there. The Bible isn't in error. The translators are, but it really has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. Only yapping dogs nipping at heels worry about minor things like that.

The mustard seed WAS the smallest seed that anyone Jesus was speaking to would have known of. If he had said the orchid seed (certainly close to being the very smallest), it would have meant nothing to his listeners. They would have just sat there slack jawed. But a mustard seed they knew instantly. Even today we understand instantly what Jesus was speaking of, the fact that we now know smaller seeds doesn't change the context of the scripture.

Nothing on Jesus himself?

Here's a couple for you:

Jesus' brother James denounced Christ while he was alive. He didn't believe him or his mother's story. Yet, AFTER the resurrection, he became such a devout follower that the apostles named him the head of the church in Jerusalem. James was killed by the Pharisee's for not renouncing Jesus. He was thrown from a roof, lived, and was beaten to death proclaiming the divinity of Christ. What changed him? Was he part of the conspiracy to defraud people by claiming a false resurrection? What was his motive? Money? He got paid an equal portion of the widows and orphans fund. That was next to nothing. Power? He and the church was in hiding. Sex? No proof one way or the other here, but once more, they were in hiding. Would be rather difficult. So why the transformation from intent skeptic to absolute martyr?

The apostles themselves hid out. Peter denied him three times after the arrest. In fact, he cursed people out for saying he was one of his followers. Yet after the resurrection the apostles went across the world preaching what they had witnessed. The were stoned, chastised, and eventually all killed except for John who was exiled to a small island. Peter even asked to be crucified upside down, because he wasn't worthy to be crucified the same way as the Lord. None of them ever denied what had happened. Were they after power? They didn't get it in this life. Money? They worked actual jobs in the cities the preached in for pay. Sex? Once more, doesn't seem plausible.

The two I asked aren't heel nipping. They get to the heart of the matter. Either these guys were the best conspirators in history (nothing remarkable about any of them pre-Jesus) and were able to keep their conspiracy as they travelled the known world without ever confessing it, despite horrifically torturous deaths. Or they witnessed what they said.

Maybe you can explain the Cambrian explosion. Or maybe tell me which humans are the furthest in evolution currently today, so I can go hang with 'em. Which animal alive today has evolutionary extra's that we can witness? I want to see extra arms, legs, eyes, etc in some sort of pseudo-transformation in evolution. Why are mosquito's the exact same today as they were millions of years ago? Why aren't they and many many other species not evolving at all? Show me the proof, otherwise it's all just mythological fairy tales of a 19th century mind.

ya know no matter what you say you won't win...they either believe or don't.

[LiveLaughLove]

ya know no matter what you say you won't win...they either believe or don't.
I know, but I write these things for the person that might be out there fence straddling or the ones that know the truth in their hearts but have fallen away for some reason.

you can use reason and intellect and evidence to be a Christian. The current big lie is that we somehow are devoid of those things is just false. In fact, astrophysics at OU, helped drive me toward the Bible. I wanted to work with SETI and find aliens.

The science proved to me the lunacy of that and left me with the conclusion of no doubt about the creation of the universe. That led me to seek which God was the God. Only one stands up to the evidence.

Not exactly Paul on the Damascus road, but it worked for me. :)

[Soonerjeepman]

nice! yes I agree, it seems if you are a believer you can't believe in science as well...or so they like to say.

course I like to use science when the argument of homosexuality comes up, but seems to me the whole issue of reproduction gets in the way! ;-)

[soonercruiser]

Hey conservatives!
"Be fruitful and multiply"!!!!
:encouragement:

[AlboSooner]

huh? @ the whole thread

[StoopTroup]

Now wait just a minute here...I thought the messiah was already in the White House?

He was...he's in fexas now.

[StoopTroup]

Hey conservatives!
"Be fruitful and multiply"!!!!
:encouragement:

I don't know if you are going to take this as an attack but here it goes....it's just my opinion.

If you guys hadn't run off a butt load of Moderates and Libertarians and Women and I still haven't figured out where the Young Gay Republicans you once had went...

Conservatives would be able to get some of the Legislation that many of us do believe needs to be done. Since Ross Perot there has been less and less of a strong message that would bring 50%+ to the polls. Banking on Hanging Chads, re-Districting and Voter ID Law Changes doesn't seem to be enough to have the GOP in a strong position as the days get shorter towards 11-6-2012.

[soonercruiser]

WHAT??? :mask:
You talkin' to ME!!!????

If I may conjecture on what you were trying to say....

If all the slippery slope moderates, and lilly livered weak, lack of a moral center Repubican moderates hadn't capitulated on so many issues....the country would still be a Judeo-Christian country with values espoused therein, and in the Constitution.....rather than values and actions in the little Red Book and Hustler Magazine.

It's merely a misunderstanding on our part of what a "True Conservative" is.
You know, the meaning of "is" is.

I must follow the Bible too closely...."if you are luke warm, I will spit you out".

It may be time for a third party. :upset:

[StoopTroup]

I think you just need to learn to separate politics and your "Values" as you call them. Reason? There is many Bible Verses. Stuff like "Judge not less yee be Judged".

i understand things are crystal clear to you and you may feel you follow the written word just like God wanted us to but even his own Son was tempted. It didn't make him a bad guy though.

You don't have to do anything, you don't have to take suggestions, you can go right on believing what and how you follow Gods path.

In turn I'll continue to be a moderate and vote Republican when I think it's good for Our Country. This time, I'd like to not even vote for either candidate but I am not going to turn away from a right that many have died for so come 11-6-2012 I will cast my vote.

[soonercruiser]

I think you just need to learn to separate politics and your "Values" as you call them. Reason? There is many Bible Verses. Stuff like "Judge not less yee be Judged".

i understand things are crystal clear to you and you may feel you follow the written word just like God wanted us to but even his own Son was tempted. It didn't make him a bad guy though.

You don't have to do anything, you don't have to take suggestions, you can go right on believing what and how you follow Gods path.

In turn I'll continue to be a moderate and vote Republican when I think it's good for Our Country. This time, I'd like to not even vote for either candidate but I am not going to turn away from a right that many have died for so come 11-6-2012 I will cast my vote.

OH! But, wrong moderate breath!
There is no Constitutional or legal reason to separate faith from politics!
You have swallowed the little yellow pill!

#1 - I really need to have sarcasm emotiocon at the end when I quote(or, mis-q) scripture. It is meant as a tease....and you bit!
The general idea is, if you don't have a solid moral center, you will slide along left & right, and that type of reaction simply helps perpetuate wishy washy lying politicians, of either party. This does not do the country any damn good in the long run. It leads to all the crap you guys are complaining about.

#2 - Unfortunately, if you are Christian, you know that it isn't enough to just believe (or just vote and pay taxes).....that belief must come with a life of action. A life of solving problems, despite election outcomes. A life of helping others needing help, less fortunate, and "witnessing", et al. I made several decisions, and worked on several projects today that will benefit many in future years. So, we all have responsibilities beyond posting on a internet forum!
* Personally, I admit sin and imperfection. But, one must fight on.......the "good Fight".
Above all one needs a solid foundation. Not a floating barge that shifts, or is pushed about by our popular culture.

Sorry if that offends!

[KantoSooner]

Cruiser, just curious, but, since our country was founded on concepts of tolerance for divergent opinions (by men who knew the bitter fruit of religious intolerance and absolutism), how do you figure a country filled with people who are convinced in the absolute righteousness of their own opinions and uncompromising in their demands will work out?

I, like you, would like a world in which I dictated everything (or at least one in which everything worked according to what I beleived was best). Since I would very much not like a world in which I was subject to some other person's vision of utopia, however, I'm willing to bend a bit here and there to accomodate others. Try it, you might find you are more relaxed and happier when not trying to run everyone else's life.

[marfacowboy]

lulz