How High Would Taxes Have To Be Raised For You To Consider Leaving The Country?

[FaninAma]

I noticed a poll on Yahoo that addressed this question and I was suprised at how many said they would consider leaving even if taxes were only increased to the 50% range. Current results of the poll are below:
POLL
France’s wealthiest man is leaving the country, avoiding high taxes. Would you ever leave the U.S. to avoid high taxation?


If they go higher than 40% (6707) 32%
If they go higher than 50% (5167) 24%
If they go higher than 70% (1990) 9%
I’d never leave (7226) 35%
_______________________________

[badger]

Where would people move to? A lot of countries are already at 50:

10. Ireland
Highest income tax rate: 48%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $40,696 (32,801 euros)

9. Finland
Highest income tax rate: 49%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $87,222 (70,300 euro)

5. (Tied) United Kingdom
Highest income tax rate: 50%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $234,484 (150,000 pounds)

5. (Tied) Japan
Highest income tax rate: 50%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $228,880 (18,000,000 yen)

5. (Tied) Belgium
Highest income tax rate: 50%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $45,037 (36,300 euros)

5. (Tied) Austria
Highest income tax rate: 50%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $74,442 (60,000 euros)

4. Netherlands
Highest income tax rate: 52%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $70,090 (56,492 euros)

3. Denmark
Highest income tax rate: 55.38%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $70,633 (423,803 krone)

2. Sweden
Highest income tax rate: 56.6%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: $85,451 (574,300 kroner)

1. Aruba
Highest income tax rate: 58.95%
Top marginal tax rate kicks in at: US $171,149

[XingTheRubicon]

Would never leave. I just won't hire one more employee unless certain issues are resolved. Just like about 90% of the business owners out there. Sitting on it...waiting.

[XingTheRubicon]

also, I am aware that I'm just a little guy when it comes to employment numbers (50-100 employees), however, there are a lot of like-minded owners out there. A good friend of mine in Dallas has a 300 employee business and he has not hired an employee in 2 years. He's replacing employees only when he has to, and he's replacing them with independent contractor agreements. A lot of this going on.

[Curly Bill]

The big problem is of course: where else do you go? Many, perhaps most of the developed countries in the world are already at, near, or above 50%. Maybe start over in some undeveloped country/territory?

[badger]

The big problem is of course: where else do you go? Many, perhaps most of the developed countries in the world are already at, near, or above 50%. Maybe start over in some undeveloped country/territory?

That's kind of how the U.S. got started, isn't it? People boarded a boat cuz they were sick of their homeland.

[KantoSooner]

The question is actually a bit more visceral than just 'leaving'. You'd have to change your citizenship.
This is because the US is, I believe, the only country on Earth who taxes their citizens on income earned outside the country when they are living outside the country. This means that if you are working for a US company and are stationed in Singapore, you pay Singaporean taxes (of course, you're working there, after all) AND then you turn around and are hit with a US tax bill. Most companies try to gross their employees up to cover this double taxation, but then the IRS taxes the gross up, and so on.
The net result? US companies limit the number of Americans they hire in favor of Aussies, Brits, Canadians, etc. US employees lose vital mid-career exposure to international markets and jobs as a result. In a very small, but growing, number of cases, some individuals have turned in their US passports and become Aussies, for instance, in order to save their jobs.

Thank Charles Grassly of Iowa for this BS.

Also, on your chart of top income tax rates, be aware that there are work arounds in many countries. In Japan, for instance, a President/CEO gets to expense legitimate business expenses....and also is allowed a tax free $10,000 (approx) per month allowance that doesn't need to be explained, receipted or anything else. lesser amounts are available to lower ranked employees. Including to guys like me who, as a second year junior trader at a Japanese firm in the late 1980's got a $250 per month stipend to 'look after' my 'kohai' (little bro in the company). This, too, was completely outside the tax structure.

[Curly Bill]

That's kind of how the U.S. got started, isn't it? People boarded a boat cuz they were sick of their homeland.

Yup, but now where do we go? All the good land is taken!

[yermom]

how many left when the top bracket was 91%?

[badger]

Yup, but now where do we go? All the good land is taken!

It's not like the U.S. land was taken when the European immigrants arrived. They just took over where the Native Americans were after a Thanksgiving holiday. Thanks, suckers! Now go to Oklahoma...wait. Does Oklahoma have oil? CRAP! Ummm... we need that land after all.

So in other words, I fully expect some third world countries, if the tax dodgers are serious, to get some new residents.

[Curly Bill]

It's not like the U.S. land was taken when the European immigrants arrived. They just took over where the Native Americans were after a Thanksgiving holiday. Thanks, suckers! Now go to Oklahoma...wait. Does Oklahoma have oil? CRAP! Ummm... we need that land after all.

So in other words, I fully expect some third world countries, if the tax dodgers are serious, to get some new residents.

What about Africa? The folks already there aren't exactly doing wonders with the place!

[badger]

What about Africa? The folks already there aren't exactly doing wonders with the place!

I could see African immigration. Tons of oceanfront, forests, lakes, rivers. The environmentalists will probably have a fit, though - lots of endangered animals and plants over there.

[Curly Bill]

I could see African immigration. Tons of oceanfront, forests, lakes, rivers. The environmentalists will probably have a fit, though - lots of endangered animals and plants over there.

We just don't take any "environmentalists" with us!

[Turd_Ferguson]

They could all go to Kenya...

[pphilfran]

how many left when the top bracket was 91%?


When top tax rates were in the 90% range (1944-1963) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.5%

When top tax rates were in the 30-35% range (1990-2011) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.8%


What? How? No way!

Historical top rates http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

Historical revenue as a percent of GDP Table 1.2 http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

[FaninAma]

The big problem is of course: where else do you go? Many, perhaps most of the developed countries in the world are already at, near, or above 50%. Maybe start over in some undeveloped country/territory?

I guess we will have to see which socialist country folds their cards first and tries to attract productive, skilled workers into their country with revamped tax policies. I still think there is a long way to go before the progressives admit they were wrong. Just in case I am checking out Ireland because both of my paternal grandparents were born there which makes me elgible for dual citizenship.

Like I said , they would have to change a lot of their tax and social spending policies before I would even give it a second thought. But it is nice to have options. :D

[FaninAma]

When top tax rates were in the 90% range (1944-1963) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.5%

When top tax rates were in the 30-35% range (1990-2011) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.8%


What? How? No way!

Historical top rates http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

Historical revenue as a percent of GDP Table 1.2 http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Comparing a 91% tax rate in the 40's or 50's to a similiar tax rate today is comparing apples to oranges.

[KantoSooner]

When top tax rates were in the 90% range (1944-1963) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.5%

When top tax rates were in the 30-35% range (1990-2011) revenue as a percent of GDP was 17.8%


What? How? No way!

Historical top rates http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

Historical revenue as a percent of GDP Table 1.2 http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

more people making more money. Even when compared to a vastly larger GDP.

[pphilfran]

Both of you are correct...and we now have much higher SS taxes involved...

Historically we pull in around 18% of GDP...in boom economies it is a little higher...in recessions it is lower...

My point is that deductions and loopholes have far more impact on revenue than tax rates...

[pphilfran]

Comparing a 91% tax rate in the 40's or 50's to a similiar tax rate today is comparing apples to oranges.

And comparing our current economy to the Clinton economy and the revenue income between the two is also comparing apples to oranges...

[FaninAma]

I wonder how many of the 35% who stated they would never leave pay no federal income taxes?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Singapore comes to mind. Highly regulated society though. Very nice, no crime, yet expensive. If the US goes European and high tax rates, which is inevitable with OBummercare, there are few places to go to avoid confiscatory tax rates.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Germany.

I may retire there anyway because 115 degrees sucks.

[okie52]

Germany.

I may retire there anyway because 115 degrees sucks.

82,000,000 people stuffed in an area that is smaller than 2 Oklahomas.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And it's amazing.

I'd trade ten Oklahomas when I can't take a match outside without it bursting into flame for only one Germany.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Better yet, I would take a seceded Oklahoma and the center part of the US over any other place in the world. I would not be surprised if the center of the country at some point in time decides they have had it with the Utopians of the East and West coast.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

I guess we will have to see which socialist country folds their cards first and tries to attract productive, skilled workers into their country with revamped tax policies. I still think there is a long way to go before the progressives admit they were wrong. Just in case I am checking out Ireland because both of my paternal grandparents were born there which makes me elgible for dual citizenship.

Like I said , they would have to change a lot of their tax and social spending policies before I would even give it a second thought. But it is nice to have options. :D
Check out Estonia. Flat tax of 24%, implemented major austerity package a few years back and now doing pretty well.


82,000,000 people stuffed in an area that is smaller than 2 Oklahomas.
You really have some spatial issues :p

[Sooner5030]

which taxes? Income....I could just opt to "make" less income. If property taxes increase then folks will become more mobile.....but not to other countries.....instead to the unincorporated areas or just areas with fewer services and lower taxes.

Leaving the country is not that easy........and very risky. You'd be better off living off the grid in in Red Oak, Ok. then heading off to some foreign country where you look and talk different than the natives.

however....if you are dead set on it there are plenty of expat communities in alot of places that can get you good info.

[okie52]

And it's amazing.

I'd trade ten Oklahomas when I can't take a match outside without it bursting into flame for only one Germany.

That's why we need firemen!!!

[okie52]

You really have some spatial issues :p

Heh...And I was thinking it was the Germans.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

how many left when the top bracket was 91%?Reagan was the candidate opposing him, and I feel pretty certain there would have been something equivalent to the Tea Party develop if Carter would have been reelected and carried on with his downgrade like he did in '76-80.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What about Africa? The folks already there aren't exactly doing wonders with the place!They gots crocodiles, lions, leopards and hyenas, malaria and sleeping sickness, too.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I wonder how many of the 35% who stated they would never leave pay no federal income taxes?and/or don't anticipate paying any. Instead, maybe even receiving money from govt.

[Chuck Bao]

I find it somewhat revealing that when liberals are complaining about politics, right wingers tell them that if they don't like it then they can leave the country. But when ultra conservatives complain, they themselves bring up the fact that they can leave the country to find a tax haven in some underdeveloped or bananna republic country. Odd how that works. Of course the middle class has no such options.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Heh...And I was thinking it was the Germans.
Can't say I ever felt crowded in Germany...granted only big city I spent much time in was Munich, which is pretty spread out. Moselle Valley is a place anyone could feel the great wide open in, though.

[diverdog]

Better yet, I would take a seceded Oklahoma and the center part of the US over any other place in the world. I would not be surprised if the center of the country at some point in time decides they have had it with the Utopians of the East and West coast.

A seceded Oklahoma? Brahahahaha

Your tax rate would be 50% or more. Oklahoma is heavily dependent on federal help.

[Curly Bill]

They gots crocodiles, lions, leopards and hyenas, malaria and sleeping sickness, too.

I ain't skeered of no critters, and those other things a little American ingenuity can take care of.

[okie52]

Can't say I ever felt crowded in Germany...granted only big city I spent much time in was Munich, which is pretty spread out. Moselle Valley is a place anyone could feel the great wide open in, though.

Although I have never been there I understand Germany is beautiful.

Hitler, though, thought they needed Lebensraum even back in the 30's.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

A seceded Oklahoma? Brahahahaha

Your tax rate would be 50% or more. Oklahoma is heavily dependent on federal help.

Most people would be living off the land, basic government and no welfare. Oklahomans are better prepared todo that than the utopians of NYC or LA.

[diverdog]

Most people would be living off the land, basic government and no welfare. Oklahomans are better prepared todo that than the utopians of NYC or LA.

Living of the land? Are you nuts? Delaware has a far more diverse agriculture community than Oklahoma and I would not try to live off the land.

[badger]

Oklahomans are better prepared todo that than the utopians of NYC or LA.

If only we didn't have so many natural disasters. btw, **** fema for turning down our local wildfire victims' requests for aid. I know we're a red state, but we're still a state.

[cleller]

Singapore comes to mind. Highly regulated society though. Very nice, no crime, yet expensive. If the US goes European and high tax rates, which is inevitable with OBummercare, there are few places to go to avoid confiscatory tax rates.

I wouldn't leave, but that would be a good place to live. Rational, with a high expectation of personal responsibility.

[FaninAma]

Although I have never been there I understand Germany is beautiful.

Hitler, though, thought they needed Lebensraum even back in the 30's.

They are likely to get it in the near future with their low birth rate unless thay keep allowing muslim immigrants into the country.

[okie52]

They are likely to get it in the near future with their low birth rate unless thay keep allowing muslim immigrants into the country.

They are trending that direction as is Europe with the exception of their illegal immigrant (primarily muslims) high birth rates. Really a big problem for them.

[okie52]

Living of the land? Are you nuts? Delaware has a far more diverse agriculture community than Oklahoma and I would not try to live off the land.

Oh now Diver...Oklahoma has plenty of land to take care of its needs agriculturally. And, unlike Delaware, we also have plenty of energy and refineries and Cushing:wink:...we might even continue to export it up north to you yankees if you are nice to us:greedy_dollars:.

If OK was to "secede" they sure wouldn't be going it alone. I would assume TX and the SEC would be leaving with us (as unlikely as secession would ever be).

[badger]

If OK was to "secede" they sure wouldn't be going it alone. I would assume TX and the SEC would be leaving with us (as unlikely as secession would ever be).

Didn't the SEC states have to sign a pledge that they would never go all-confederate on the union ever again after the Civil War?

[Midtowner]

Secession would be pretty awful. I imagine a Southern U.S. secessionist country would be about as religiously tolerant as Iran. Imagine what the whackadoos on the Right would be doing with your civil liberties were they able to start tabula rasa with regard to the Constitution. Yikes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Didn't the SEC states have to sign a pledge that they would never go all-confederate on the union ever again after the Civil War?A secession is a break from all laws of the previous country.

[badger]

Secession would be pretty awful. I imagine a Southern U.S. secessionist country would be about as religiously tolerant as Iran. Imagine what the whackadoos on the Right would be doing with your civil liberties were they able to start tabula rasa with regard to the Constitution. Yikes.

I wonder who would be president? Newt's from Georgia, so he could run. Ron Paul's from Texas so he could run. I'd have to hope that everyone assumes that the stupid Yell Leader Rick Perry would just be written off. 9-9-9 Herman Cain is from Bammer (right?) so he's eligible. About the only one that couldn't be included were that chick from Minny and Mitt Romney of Taxachusetts.


A secession is a break from all laws of the previous country.
Even so, didn't the South need to promise to never leave again when they surrendered? Not that promises can't be broken... Indian treaties are proof of that.

[okie52]

Didn't the SEC states have to sign a pledge that they would never go all-confederate on the union ever again after the Civil War?

I don't remember...could have not that they would care now 150 years later if they were really ticked off.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I find it somewhat revealing that when liberals are complaining about politics, right wingers tell them that if they don't like it then they can leave the country. But when ultra conservatives complain, they themselves bring up the fact that they can leave the country to find a tax haven in some underdeveloped or bananna republic country. Odd how that works. Of course the middle class has no such options.If the collectivist crap would stop, people would want to stay. The USA is not a collectivist country, and doesn't want to be made that way.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I ain't skeered of no critters, and those other things a little American ingenuity can take care of.Then, the environmentalists will HAVE to stay back in the USA, along with all the other libs, for improvement to take place over in the heart of Darkness.

[okie52]

Secession would be pretty awful. I imagine a Southern U.S. secessionist country would be about as religiously tolerant as Iran. Imagine what the whackadoos on the Right would be doing with your civil liberties were they able to start tabula rasa with regard to the Constitution. Yikes.

Yep, I imagine the religious fervor would rise along with the elimination of hate crime laws, illegals, sanctuary cities, and have sealed borders, etc...probably have some really good tort reform too. And energy independence for the secessionists would be immediate. Horrifying.

[BermudaSooner]

The question is actually a bit more visceral than just 'leaving'. You'd have to change your citizenship.
This is because the US is, I believe, the only country on Earth who taxes their citizens on income earned outside the country when they are living outside the country. This means that if you are working for a US company and are stationed in Singapore, you pay Singaporean taxes (of course, you're working there, after all) AND then you turn around and are hit with a US tax bill. Most companies try to gross their employees up to cover this double taxation, but then the IRS taxes the gross up, and so on.
The net result? US companies limit the number of Americans they hire in favor of Aussies, Brits, Canadians, etc. US employees lose vital mid-career exposure to international markets and jobs as a result. In a very small, but growing, number of cases, some individuals have turned in their US passports and become Aussies, for instance, in order to save their jobs.

Thank Charles Grassly of Iowa for this BS.

Also, on your chart of top income tax rates, be aware that there are work arounds in many countries. In Japan, for instance, a President/CEO gets to expense legitimate business expenses....and also is allowed a tax free $10,000 (approx) per month allowance that doesn't need to be explained, receipted or anything else. lesser amounts are available to lower ranked employees. Including to guys like me who, as a second year junior trader at a Japanese firm in the late 1980's got a $250 per month stipend to 'look after' my 'kohai' (little bro in the company). This, too, was completely outside the tax structure.

Kanto is right, you have to change your citizenship...and although Charles Grassley levied one of the highest tax changes on a group of citizens ever (ex-pats), the US has levied taxes on Americans overseas since the 1920s when JP Getty moved off shore to avoid US taxes.

I was living in Bermuda, paying Bermudian taxes (all VAT based) and then paying US taxes after living expenses. Grassley severly limited the exemption for foreign expenses and taxes--essentially raising my taxes 60% overnight. As an employer in Bermuda, I would occassionally hire an American, but always had to pay more. After Grassley's tax increase, I never hired another American and in fact told all Americans outright, sorry, I can't afford you.

How could Senator Grassley do this on his own? As the chairmain of the committee sheparding a large crime and farm bill through Congress, he slipped in this huge tax increase at the last moment. I actually even tracked him down on a radio program but his aides wouldn't let me through to speak to him on the air. F-in coward.

As for changing citizenship, I've known several that have done it lately. My boss recently turned in his US passport and now only uses his Swiss. Had to pay a significant fee--otherwise you have to still pay US taxes for 10 years after relinquishing your citizenship.

To tell employment candidates "sorry, I can't hire you because you are American" is ridiculous. To see less qualified Canadians, Brits or whatever take home more net pay than I was getting is frustrating.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yep, I imagine the religious fervor would rise(in the seceeding states) along with the elimination of hate crime laws, illegals, sanctuary cities, and have sealed borders, etc...probably have some really good tort reform too. And energy independence for the secessionists would be immediate. Horrifying.Yep, that lawyer is a rilly rilly good analyst!

[Midtowner]

I wonder who would be president? Newt's from Georgia, so he could run. Ron Paul's from Texas so he could run. I'd have to hope that everyone assumes that the stupid Yell Leader Rick Perry would just be written off. 9-9-9 Herman Cain is from Bammer (right?) so he's eligible. About the only one that couldn't be included were that chick from Minny and Mitt Romney of Taxachusetts.

Maybe the chick from Minny'd move South when they kick her to the curb as it appears they're about to do? You can't write Perry off because you can never underestimate the dumb of a Southern conservative voter in that they will vote against their own self-interest quite dependably.


Even so, didn't the South need to promise to never leave again when they surrendered? Not that promises can't be broken... Indian treaties are proof of that.

Their biggest problem is that most of the southern states collect more in federal spending than their citizens pay. Okie is pretty bad. We get $1.48 in federal spending fro every $1.00 our people spend. 'Bama and Mississippi are up in the $1.70 range. Only Texas and Georgia pay in more than they get. So maybe we purge the poor people? Reinstitute slavery? Dunno.

[badger]

Their biggest problem is that most of the southern states collect more in federal spending than their citizens pay. Okie is pretty bad. We get $1.48 in federal spending fro every $1.00 our people spend. 'Bama and Mississippi are up in the $1.70 range. Only Texas and Georgia pay in more than they get. So maybe we purge the poor people? Reinstitute slavery? Dunno.

Oklahoma is getting back pay - it used to be one of those states that paid in more than it received, if I'm not mistaken. And we deserve it. Cross the state border and the roads suddenly turn to crap :(

[okie52]

Maybe the chick from Minny'd move South when they kick her to the curb as it appears they're about to do? You can't write Perry off because you can never underestimate the dumb of a Southern conservative voter in that they will vote against their own self-interest quite dependably.

LOL...yeah those dumb okies. Anyone could see it was in their self interest to vote for an anti oil and gas guy.



Their biggest problem is that most of the southern states collect more in federal spending than their citizens pay. Okie is pretty bad. We get $1.48 in federal spending fro every $1.00 our people spend. 'Bama and Mississippi are up in the $1.70 range. Only Texas and Georgia pay in more than they get. So maybe we purge the poor people? Reinstitute slavery? Dunno.

And what is that federal spending attributed to? Military bases? Indian agencies? Retirement benefits?

[FaninAma]

Secession would be pretty awful. I imagine a Southern U.S. secessionist country would be about as religiously tolerant as Iran. Imagine what the whackadoos on the Right would be doing with your civil liberties were they able to start tabula rasa with regard to the Constitution. Yikes.


Or they might actually interpret it as the Framers intended it to be. So, since you through out a gratuitous , generalized insult should I stoop to your level and do the same towards progressives? Nah, I think I'll act like an adult instead.

[Midtowner]

Or they might actually interpret it as the Framers intended it to be. So, since you through out a gratuitous , generalized insult should I stoop to your level and do the same towards progressives? Nah, I think I'll act like an adult instead.

If they want to interpret it as the framers intended it, then we'd have slavery for sure and only white landowners who were of age could vote.

[KantoSooner]

That's white MALE landowners, you feminazi!

[FaninAma]

If they want to interpret it as the framers intended it, then we'd have slavery for sure and only white landowners who were of age could vote.

No, that would mean they threw out parts of the amended Constitution and were simply picking and choosing as to which parts to adhere...... similiar to our current court system. I am pretty sure the framers recognized the right of states to amend the Constitution with the appropriately followed amendment process meaning the amended Constitution we now have would be the one adopted.

I think you are just engaging in hyperbole in an attempt to be provacative or in an attempt to insult those with conservative views. Either way it is not conducive to carrying on a thoughtful discussion.

[FaninAma]

As for changing citizenship, I've known several that have done it lately. My boss recently turned in his US passport and now only uses his Swiss. Had to pay a significant fee--otherwise you have to still pay US taxes for 10 years after relinquishing your citizenship.

To tell employment candidates "sorry, I can't hire you because you are American" is ridiculous. To see less qualified Canadians, Brits or whatever take home more net pay than I was getting is frustrating.

Just in case anyone is interested:
http://www.taxmeless.com/USCitizenRenounce.htm

[Midtowner]

No, that would mean they threw out parts of the amended Constitution and were simply picking and choosing as to which parts to adhere...... similiar to our current court system. I am pretty sure the framers recognized the right of states to amend the Constitution with the appropriately followed amendment process meaning the amended Constitution we now have would be the one adopted.

I think you are just engaging in hyperbole in an attempt to be provacative or in an attempt to insult those with conservative views. Either way it is not conducive to carrying on a thoughtful discussion.

The framers never envisioned any amendment subsequent to the 10th.

[FaninAma]

The framers never envisioned any amendment subsequent to the 10th.

Are you saying the framers didn't put in a mechanism for future generations to amend the Constitution? If so somebody better alert the presses that we have 17 or so Constitutional amendments that need to be stricken.

[BigTip]

Would never leave. I just won't hire one more employee unless certain issues are resolved. Just like about 90% of the business owners out there. Sitting on it...waiting.

Yup.
If Obama gets elected I will sell my business.
If Romney gets elected I will invest in my business doing some upgrades I've been wanting to do.
Multiply my intent my 500,000 business owners or so and maybe the voters will get the point.

[yermom]

good luck selling it ;)

[StoopTroup]

I heard taxes were as high as 91% during the Eisenhower and stayed high until the Nixon Administration.

I haven't looked it up so I'm not sure if it's true but given how things changed after Truman was POTUS and the craziness of our Country as we lived in the 50's and survived into the 70's....I wouldn't be shocked if it had been quite high during that time.

[StoopTroup]

The highest rate for regular marginal income tax in the twentieth century was instated under Franklin D. Roosevelt toward the end of World War II at 94 percent. A marginal income tax of over 90 percent for top earners lasted well beyond the end of the war.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eisenhower-obama-wealthy-americans-mitt-romney-pay-taxes/story?id=15387862#.UFPG467F-So

[pphilfran]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eisenhower-obama-wealthy-americans-mitt-romney-pay-taxes/story?id=15387862#.UFPG467F-So

What was the SS tax rate at that time...sales tax rate...state tax rates...were deductions the same...at one time you could deduct credit card interest...

Trying to compare past income tax rates without looking at the entire tax package is foolish and borders on dishonest....

[Midtowner]

No, that would mean they threw out parts of the amended Constitution and were simply picking and choosing as to which parts to adhere...... similiar to our current court system. I am pretty sure the framers recognized the right of states to amend the Constitution with the appropriately followed amendment process meaning the amended Constitution we now have would be the one adopted.

I think you are just engaging in hyperbole in an attempt to be provacative or in an attempt to insult those with conservative views. Either way it is not conducive to carrying on a thoughtful discussion.

LOL. I'm sure they intended a civil war where thousands of American men and boys were murdered in order to make those amendments. So the Civil War was the founder's intention. Got it big guy.

[StoopTroup]

I'd love to see Alaska secede from the Union. Maybe Canada will save their *** when Putin or China takes over there.

[StoopTroup]

The look on Sarah Palins face when she only has to open the front door to see Russia....

It will be funny to see the folks walk into her house and start their own show from Russian Alaska on Fox

[StoopTroup]

Good bye Alaskan pipeline hello $15 per gallon gas...lol

Yeah seceding will happen. LMAO

[olevetonahill]

I'd love to see Alaska secede from the Union. Maybe Canada will save their *** when Putin or China takes over there.


The look on Sarah Palins face when she only has to open the front door to see Russia....

It will be funny to see the folks walk into her house and start their own show from Russian Alaska on Fox


Good bye Alaskan pipeline hello $15 per gallon gas...lol

Yeah seceding will happen. LMAO

http://files.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_1231/12313205/file/spore-youre-weird-small-37403.jpg

[FaninAma]

LOL. I'm sure they intended a civil war where thousands of American men and boys were murdered in order to make those amendments. So the Civil War was the founder's intention. Got it big guy.
I don't know why I am bothering to respond.

The framers wrote an amendment process into the Constitution because they anticipated the country would change. They gave the electorate the right to make those decisions about how to handle changibg social values and technology/trade/commerce issues for themselves.

All duly passed amendments are a part of the Constitution. You're the one implying they wouldn't be in a southern state that seceded. Are you really claiming any modern state would throw out any of the current amendments to the Constitutuion? You're just creating a strawman that you then knock down and use that as your arguement. Pretty weak..

The reason for the Civil War is an entirely different debate but I will say the framers provided the country a way to reach the same conclusion without killing hundreds of thousands of our own citizens and, IMO, we would have arrived at the same place albeit a generation later.

"Big guy"? Really? I am very willing to have a discussion of this issue but I would prefer to do it without getting all puffed up and acting offended.

[okie52]

Good bye Alaskan pipeline hello $15 per gallon gas...lol

Yeah seceding will happen. LMAO

?

[Midtowner]

The framers wrote an amendment process into the Constitution because they anticipated the country would change. They gave the electorate the right to make those decisions about how to handle changibg social values and technology/trade/commerce issues for themselves.

So you're suggesting that they were so careless in their framing that they set the stage for a Civil War over the southern states' objections to anti-slavery amendments? Or were they just that negligent?

The Civil War amendments didn't exactly follow the ordinary process. Around half the states didn't really have a say. It was hardly democratic and hardly followed the proper procedures discussed in the founding documents.

[StoopTroup]

?

Just stating what would happen if say Alaska would secede from the Union.

I think Texas and Chuck Norris tried to get a movement going to get Texas to secede if President Obama was re-elected?


Sirely the greatest Governor in Alaskan History would follow suit?

[olevetonahill]

http://my.hsj.org/Portals/2/Schools/2958/Article327148_confused_yyyqwera_bp.jpg

[StoopTroup]

What was the SS tax rate at that time...sales tax rate...state tax rates...were deductions the same...at one time you could deduct credit card interest...

Trying to compare past income tax rates without looking at the entire tax package is foolish and borders on dishonest....

Take it up with ABC and Meg Fowler. All I was trying to say is....not everyone seems to believe that many would leave.

Also....I know Vet might think I'm weird but I wonder if he thinks he would leave if the tax rate went to 90%? I wonder if he would still live in Oklahoma once they seceded? I figure he'd move somewhere that he could keep his military pension coming in?

Hey maybe Oklahoma will keep those checks coming.

Thinking that some States would secede makes me think some folks are having some really hard times with reality or really letting things get to them. It's like grasping for straws as you slide down a muddy hill towards a cliff.

[olevetonahill]

Take it up with ABC and Meg Fowler. All I was trying to say is....not everyone seems to believe that many would leave.

Also....I know Vet might think I'm weird but I wonder if he thinks he would leave if the tax rate went to 90%? I wonder if he would still live in Oklahoma once they seceded? I figure he'd move somewhere that he could keep his military pension coming in?

Hey maybe Oklahoma will keep those checks coming.

Thinking that some States would secede makes me think some folks are having some really hard times with reality or really letting things get to them. It's like grasping for straws as you slide down a muddy hill towards a cliff.

http://perpetual-wonder.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/What-if_.jpg

http://beyondhumptydumpty.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/What-If1.jpg

[okie52]

Just stating what would happen if say Alaska would secede from the Union.

I think Texas and Chuck Norris tried to get a movement going to get Texas to secede if President Obama was re-elected?


Sirely the greatest Governor in Alaskan History would follow suit?

If there were secessions I doubt it would be Alaska....probably the south and TX and OK although secession by any state would be highly unlikely.

Palin isn't running AL anymore or hadn't you heard?

[pphilfran]

Take it up with ABC and Meg Fowler. All I was trying to say is....not everyone seems to believe that many would leave.

Also....I know Vet might think I'm weird but I wonder if he thinks he would leave if the tax rate went to 90%? I wonder if he would still live in Oklahoma once they seceded? I figure he'd move somewhere that he could keep his military pension coming in?

Hey maybe Oklahoma will keep those checks coming.

Thinking that some States would secede makes me think some folks are having some really hard times with reality or really letting things get to them. It's like grasping for straws as you slide down a muddy hill towards a cliff.

If you took the income tax rate up to 90% and then add in SS, state, sales, and all the other taxes I would imagine one would end up paying $110 in taxes for every $100 dollar earned...so yes, a lot of people would leave...

Like I said earlier...you cannot compare the tax rates today to the tax rates in the 1940's and on through the peak years...and even with those much higher income tax rates we still pulled in around 18% of GDP...the same as today in a normal economy with much lower rates...

[pphilfran]

It ain't the tax rates..it is the much too low growth of GDP...we should do nothing that would hamper the growth of GDP or we will be in deep trouble no matter the tax rate...

[FaninAma]

So you're suggesting that they were so careless in their framing that they set the stage for a Civil War over the southern states' objections to anti-slavery amendments? Or were they just that negligent?

The Civil War amendments didn't exactly follow the ordinary process. Around half the states didn't really have a say. It was hardly democratic and hardly followed the proper
procedures discussed in the founding documents.

The amendment process has worked well. The country and its social values have evolved and the Constitution has kept pace. It's a non-starter to suggest any state, even in the south, would want to return to a pre-1800's Constitution.