Have we become..

[normanx]

The midwest VTech? Granted we've won way more titles, but they have a great coach that can't get it done. They recruit decent. Coach em up well. Win conference titles. Thought about early for nat'l titles. Then fade out....

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Tech hasn't been in the NC game since what, 1999? We got a ways to go.

[OU_Sooners75]

Simply put, no.

But we do seem to be in a decline of some sort. Maybe it is time for Bob stoops to fire some coaches.

Seriously, since patton has arrived in 2006, our OL has steadily declined. There was just one season where we had a very solid OL. Its time for Bob to fire him and go after the very best, not one of his buddies or family if they are not the best.

The Kittle hire always boggled my mind. He is not a very good coach and never has been. Since his arrival, the TE play has been very underachieving.

Bob stoops needs to hire just on coach for the OL and then hire as true special teams coordinator.

Bob Stoops once upon said the reason he brought Mike Leach to Oklahoma wasn't because they were friends, but because he got tired of coaching against him...meaning he was the best!!!

What happened to that Bob Stoops?

Why can't that Bob Stoops reappear?

Why is Bob Stoops complacent?

When Bob Stoops makes a hire, why are they always a friend or a relative?

Stoops has became complacent. Knowing as long as he wins games and a conference title here and there then he will not be fired. Where is the Stoops that had something to be proved?

[AzianSooner]

No.

Why? We have chances to play in NC and have more Heismans than those mediocre teams.

[normanx]

Thats what I'm saying I guess... I see us fading in to people's VTech range of teams. On the fringe of elite.. But not quite there.

[hawaii 5-0]

V Tech is known for their special teams play.

I wouldn't heap praise on our special teams. Yet.

5-0

[AZSOONER]

no

[soonervegas]

When your end game is coaching 3-4 more years and racking up a $20 million salary during that timeframe...all the while knowing as long as you eak out 9-10 wins it keeps the boss off your back and that the rubes will be showing up every other Saturday to pay your salary....

Why change a thing? How is Bob any different than most Americans?

[normanx]

Very true vegas.. But is that what sooner fans expect in this era? Just get a pay check while other programs pile on to their legacies? And OU competes in and wins one BCS game to Uconn? And I'm assuming you're speaking tongue in cheek.

[OU_Sooners75]

The difference is though, VT has never been elite. They've had one year of eliteness and that was it. They have vied for just one national championship losing it.

Though I think OU is declining a bit, I think its something Stoops can turn around, if he wants too.

The first step was taken care of when Mike came back. The next is to fine one really good oline coach and a special teams coach.

And another step is to force offensive change. Make it find an identity and do away with the no huddle bull****!!!
Thats what I'm saying I guess... I see us fading in to people's VTech range of teams. On the fringe of elite.. But not quite there.

[picasso]

Thats what I'm saying I guess... I see us fading in to people's VTech range of teams. On the fringe of elite.. But not quite there.
How exactly do you see this? We've been to a BCS title game about every 3 or 4 seasons under Stoops.
I smell a troll.

[marfacowboy]

Should Stoops replace some coaches? He made a big move last year. Maybe more are needed. A lot of times it's not so much what a coach is doing or not doing, sometimes it's just a fresh face. A new approach to things. Kids may respond differently to new coaches. And the fact of the matter is every head coach eventually has to move on. Once you've gone too long without a title, it gets more difficult to recruit 4 and 5 star guys, and before you know it, someone else in the conference or in the country is perceived as the "hot program." Bear wasn't so great in his final years. Spurrier knew it was time to move on from Florida. Urban Meyer knew, too. Pete Carroll couldn't have kept USC on top even without the probation. He was slipping. I really don't think Stoops has too many years left, and it's simply because that's how this game works.

[basel90]

We are becoming second tier , like it or not, we are always in the top 10 area but not top 3 or 5 most of the times.
He was clearly outcoached several times by :

Saban when at LSU and now would do the same with Alabama,
Peter Carrol USC
Les Miles OSU and now LSU
Chris Peterson Boise St.
and others
The issue of Bob stoops hires, slow firing of coaching that under-perform, melt downs in many games, has resulted in the situation we are in. Right now ,we have three issues:
a) Stoops is a top 10 coach and therefore will win at least 10 games each year and some big 12 titles but unlikely a NC.
b)Stoops will not be fired or pressured if he wins 10 or more games
c)There is no clear alternative better than Stoops . let us face it , unless we can get a Saban or someone of that caliber why would the AD fire him ?

[winout]

We are becoming second tier , like it or not, we are always in the top 10 area but not top 3 or 5 most of the times.
He was clearly outcoached several times by :

Saban when at LSU and now would do the same with Alabama,
Peter Carrol USC
Les Miles OSU and now LSU
Chris Peterson Boise St.
and others
The issue of Bob stoops hires, slow firing of coaching that under-perform, melt downs in many games, has resulted in the situation we are in. Right now ,we have three issues:
a) Stoops is a top 10 coach and therefore will win at least 10 games each year and some big 12 titles but unlikely a NC.
b)Stoops will not be fired or pressured if he wins 10 or more games
c)There is no clear alternative better than Stoops . let us face it , unless we can get a Saban or someone of that caliber why would the AD fire him ?

Well written basel90.

[marfacowboy]

We are becoming second tier , like it or not, we are always in the top 10 area but not top 3 or 5 most of the times.
He was clearly outcoached several times by :

Saban when at LSU and now would do the same with Alabama,
Peter Carrol USC
Les Miles OSU and now LSU
Chris Peterson Boise St.
and others
The issue of Bob stoops hires, slow firing of coaching that under-perform, melt downs in many games, has resulted in the situation we are in. Right now ,we have three issues:
a) Stoops is a top 10 coach and therefore will win at least 10 games each year and some big 12 titles but unlikely a NC.
b)Stoops will not be fired or pressured if he wins 10 or more games
c)There is no clear alternative better than Stoops . let us face it , unless we can get a Saban or someone of that caliber why would the AD fire him ?

Hard to argue with that. Once USC gets the death penalty, we can get Kiffin.

[C&CDean]

Please make it stop.

[Soonermagik]

I'll admit, I'm frustrated Stoops hasn't been able to win at least one more national title. I'm sure he's frustrated, too. The problem is every team wants to win a national title and only one can do it. As long as Stoops keeps going to BCS games the majority of seasons and wins the majority of those games I don't think anyone can complain.

College football is down this year. I will be highly dissappointed if Stoops doesn't win at least 10 games and win a BCS game. He has a lot of experience on this team. Next year they lose a bunch of guys, so this is the year to do well. Next season I will trim back my expectations due to the inexperience.

[thunderfan]

Please make it stop.

are you referring to the whining or the same ole tired jokes you make about my wife?

at least get some new material.

Oh, I know, how about the one where I banged your wife while your kids watched. Or the one where you fluffed the horse before it bent your wife over like a shotgun?
Oh wait, tell everyone what a whore my wife is while banning my old username because I had all those pm's from you beggin to get with her. Those were classic and desperate pms.

[badger]

VT is the program I would compare OU to right now--- success in-conference, questionable bowl results, but consistently winning seasons sans the crystal balls. I also sympathize with them because they had that student go nuts and shoot up a campus building a few years ago. The professor that threw himself against a classroom door to allow the students to escape out the window has hopefully gotten a place of high honor in VT's community.

I think it's become fairly obvious that the SEC abused scholarship rules to the extent that it gave them an unfair advantage over the rest of the country, leading to all the championships recently. There's been some mixed results doing this (Ole Miss under Nutter signed 39 in one class but his arse still got canned due to losing too much), but the top programs have dropped recruits, grayshirted and dropped scholarship players to their heart's content without recourse... until now.

Will be interesting to see if this SECSECSEC finally ends now that they can't sign more than 25.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

We are far above V-Tech. We have vastly superior players. We play in a vastly superior conference and get it done.

We have been snakebit in the BCS, though.

[soonervegas]

Please make it stop.

I think 95% of the reason I even post stuff anymore is the off chance that Dean will latch on to me like a pitbull on a preschooler....

[BoulderSooner79]

We've had 3 seasons pass since we appeared in the title game. How did that team get there?
-dominate O-line
-Gerald McCoy and pre-injured Adrian Taylor DTs (forget the DEs, but I think they were solid)
-3 phenom skill position players in Bradford, DM, Gresham

The team had weaknesses such as inexperienced back 7 on D and special teams, but
was able to compensate by being elite in the above areas. Since then, we have not
had an O-line close to that team. The '09 D still had McCoy/Taylor and it was stout.
We still had DM in '10 and he was key in that b12 title, but LJ is not Sam and no
TE has been like Gresham.

So I'd say talent or lack thereof has been the biggest difference since OUr team
was elite. But even with that, if we stay healthy last year, we probably get in the
title game if we can win in Stillwater. So I don't think you can say we have become
VT in 3 seasons. Has our recruiting slipped a bit or is it just luck of the draw of
how our players have projected to the next level?

[FaninAma]

Please make it stop.

How long have you been a Sooner fan Dean? What makes you think it would ever stop? LOL.

I will say that I was never a Venables fan.....never. Well, maybe for about a year and a half after Mike Stoops left.

Although I will say that Brent's defenses will fare better in the ACC and against SEC teams where they don't have the wide open passing attacks.

[C&CDean]

are you referring to the whining or the same ole tired jokes you make about my wife?

at least get some new material.

Oh, I know, how about the one where I banged your wife while your kids watched. Or the one where you fluffed the horse before it bent your wife over like a shotgun?
Oh wait, tell everyone what a whore my wife is while banning my old username because I had all those pm's from you beggin to get with her. Those were classic and desperate pms.

marty my boy, you try way too hard. There's proof your wife likes to suck off black dudes while you watch. You have no proof of my wife doing anything. Or of me peeming you about anything Why? Cause I ain't married to the town pump, and I wouldn't touch your old lady with even my 10-foot pole.

Deal with it dillweed. In the meantime, take a break.

[C&CDean]

How long have you been a Sooner fan Dean? What makes you think it would ever stop? LOL.

I will say that I was never a Venables fan.....never. Well, maybe for about a year and a half after Mike Stoops left.

Although I will say that Brent's defenses will fare better in the ACC and against SEC teams where they don't have the wide open passing attacks.

I know brother, I know. Personally, I think Venables was too cerebral for the caliber of player/s we've recruited lately. His MO seemed to be "a complex defense is necessary to stop a complex offense." I too believe he will do well at Clemson, and will probably eventually get his HC shot.

[sooneron]

Hard to argue with that. Once USC gets the death penalty, we can get Kiffin.


Please tell me that you're kidding.

[jkjsooner]

Have we become the midwest

Right there is where the answer became no.

[Crimsontothecore]

Should Stoops replace some coaches? He made a big move last year. Maybe more are needed. A lot of times it's not so much what a coach is doing or not doing, sometimes it's just a fresh face. A new approach to things. Kids may respond differently to new coaches. And the fact of the matter is every head coach eventually has to move on. Once you've gone too long without a title, it gets more difficult to recruit 4 and 5 star guys, and before you know it, someone else in the conference or in the country is perceived as the "hot program." Bear wasn't so great in his final years. Spurrier knew it was time to move on from Florida. Urban Meyer knew, too. Pete Carroll couldn't have kept USC on top even without the probation. He was slipping. I really don't think Stoops has too many years left, and it's simply because that's how this game works.

This is spot on. Coaching goes in cycles. The great ones ascend to the top, enjoy a time there, and then descend. It's just the natural progression of things and nothing to lose sleep over. As dominant as Saban seems right now, it will be the same for him too eventually. It's unavoidable. OU will be fine when the day comes for Bob to hang it up.
What I don't understand is why so many people are in denial of this truth and why it so bothers them for people to acknowledge the obvious shortcomings this team now has. It takes nothing away from what this team was 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 10 years ago. It doesn't devalue those accomplishments at all. It's the here and now and the facts here and now are different than they were then. I swear some people would take 5-win seasons for the next 20 years as long as it's Stoops coaching. That mind set is disguised as "loyalty" but it's just dumb and not at all in the best interest of the program. Coaches at this level get paid a lot of money. That high salary comes with expectations to make the program something better than average. And NO, I'm not saying OU has fallen to to being just average. I do know that they inevitably will and we are seeing early signs of that now. It's no fault of coach Stoops or anybody else, it's just that natural, unavoidable cycle.

[King Crimson]

i don't think winning the ACC is the same at all as winning the Big XII...which we have done many times.

we go on the road, look pretty marginal, and now the endtimes are here? brother.

[PLaw]

Tech hasn't been in the NC game since what, 1999? We got a ways to go.Stoops has became complacent. Knowing as long as he wins games and a conference title here and there then he will not be fired. Where is the Stoops that had something to be proved?

Big Game Bob was struck with a terminal disease on Dec. 6, 2003 and died on January 4, 2005.

Boomer

[marfacowboy]

Please tell me that you're kidding.

Yes...you can't go there. It's like having Calipari. Sell your soul to the dark side.

[PLaw]

This is spot on. Coaching goes in cycles. The great ones ascend to the top, enjoy a time there, and then descend. It's just the natural progression of things and nothing to lose sleep over. As dominant as Saban seems right now, it will be the same for him too eventually. It's unavoidable. OU will be fine when the day comes for Bob to hang it up.
What I don't understand is why so many people are in denial of this truth and why it so bothers them for people to acknowledge the obvious shortcomings this team now has. It takes nothing away from what this team was 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 10 years ago. It doesn't devalue those accomplishments at all. It's the here and now and the facts here and now are different than they were then. I swear some people would take 5-win seasons for the next 20 years as long as it's Stoops coaching. That mind set is disguised as "loyalty" but it's just dumb and not at all in the best interest of the program. Coaches at this level get paid a lot of money. That high salary comes with expectations to make the program something better than average. And NO, I'm not saying OU has fallen to to being just average. I do know that they inevitably will and we are seeing early signs of that now. It's no fault of coach Stoops or anybody else, it's just that natural, unavoidable cycle.

Coaches, like managers at the office, have to keep the challenge fresh. I worked closely with a former Iowa player that played with Mike when Bobby was a GA. One thing I learned from him, is that you have to constantly be focused on improving your roster (in this case it would be coaching staff). We constantly had a low performing supervisor or manager on a Performance Improvement Plan. It was a strong message to the rest of the staff not to grow complacent. Bob came in with some of the best assistant coaches ever assembled, but I don't think there is one coach on this current staff that has any fear of not being here next year. There is a needed healthy level of fear. Saban is all about that with his players.

Boomer

[East Coast Bias]

I tend to believe it has a lot to do with talent, and here the elite talent wants to play. There is a lot of parity in college football now. Who would ever think UTEP could field good enough athletes to give OU a game? I remember the days of Barry Switzer, when we would hang a half a hundred on whoever was next on the schedule. Purely on talent. The kids like Billy Simms wanted to play here. Where I see the slip is in the talent evaluation and recruiting.

[IslandSooner]

This sh@t is getting hard to read.... Maybe we have lost a few games we shouldnt have, maybe we have under performed against lesser teams, maybe we have not won a NC since 2000..... But damn, at least we aren't stool water cowboy fans, or razorback fans, or Texas shorthorn fans, we are the spoiled *** fan base of the Oklahoma sooners, and whether most of us believe it or not, we are probably getting ready to witness a better than most season... That most fan bases would cherish...... But yet, I might have over indulged tonight??? So who the f$$k knows:-)

[normanx]

You think texass fans aren't a little spoiled? Whether you like it or not, they're just like us with expectations. And, they've won a title more recently than we have. Good seasons are just that.... Good seasons. And yes, they are harder to come by now days because of parity. But come on... This is Oklahoma. And we aren't recruiting the D-line and O-line well enough like the SEC is to compete with them. I, like some of the posters here, have believed that Bob has become complacent over the years. He's still a great head coach, but has his weaknesses. That was why I compared OUr program to VT while I was watching their game vs GTech. Enjoyed the discussion.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

This thread seems to forget that when it looks like its all coming together, we lose a Bradford, Gresham, Murray, Whaley, Broyals, Cooper, Habern, Box, etc.

We had a shot in a hostile environment against LSU. Didn't JW have a fracture?

This stuff is ticky tack. In 2000 we were a machine that took the ball away from opponents like clockwork. Our special teams was quite good. No one could figure out that you couldn't blitz Heupel without paying the price. And NOT ONE starter out due to injury the entire year.

Plus even last year the WRa couldn't catch.

[trey]

Hard to argue with that. Once USC gets the death penalty, we can get Kiffin.[/QUOTE]

Pete Carroll might be available soon....

[MamaMia]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/smilies/coffee.gif I'm confused. Can somebody please tell me exactly which coach we're blaming now?

[C&CDean]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/smilies/coffee.gif I'm confused. Can somebody please tell me exactly which coach we're blaming now?

Stooeuple?

I can't believe this abomination of a thread is still going. Let's see, we've got the nation's longest ever win streak, 7 national titles, the best winning percentage in the history of the universe, we've played for titles multiple times in the past decade, we've finished top-10 almost every year and have been a play/injury away from going all the way multiple times - and now we're Virginia Tech? WTF are y'all smoking?

Simply put, we've been snake-bit by injuries and player stupidity. And a bunch of you dillwhackers wanna just point a finger at a coach. Why? Cause you're lazy, and it's the easy way out.

We don't have the injuries we've been having and we're in the mix every year. Wait, I know, Schmitty's fault...We don't have the knuckleheads missing class/stealing ****/getting DUIs/etc and we're in the mix every year. Wait, I know, Stoops' fault. Stoops & Co. should have been able to predict so-and-so was gonna be a dumbass or get injured and shouldn't have recruited that guy. ****ing coaches suck.

Some of you are so pathetically lazy - yes lazy is the right word cause you'd rather just point a finger at the guy at the top and go "the buck stops there." Ultimately, it does. However, if you've got half a brain in your head you'd see what's been going on around here.

Yeah, I know, it's the coach's fault he can't monitor every single player 24/7.

[MamaMia]

We've only played ONE game, and this was an away game. We suffered some set backs but I think it was because we had so many players out. Granted, it wasn't pretty but we still won. UTEP came out fighting, wanting it bad, real bad. It was so obvious that they had been practicing for us since the day we were on their schedule. Who's to say that this UTEP team wont do very well this year? I have faith that we have been able to iron out some kinks. We don't have any margin for error with Texas Tech and then Texas coming up next though.

Question: How many players who were unable to play last Saturday will be able to play tomorrow, and who are they?

[Crimsontothecore]

Stooeuple?

I can't believe this abomination of a thread is still going. Let's see, we've got the nation's longest ever win streak, 7 national titles, the best winning percentage in the history of the universe, we've played for titles multiple times in the past decade, we've finished top-10 almost every year and have been a play/injury away from going all the way multiple times - and now we're Virginia Tech? WTF are y'all smoking?

Simply put, we've been snake-bit by injuries and player stupidity. And a bunch of you dillwhackers wanna just point a finger at a coach. Why? Cause you're lazy, and it's the easy way out.

We don't have the injuries we've been having and we're in the mix every year. Wait, I know, Schmitty's fault...We don't have the knuckleheads missing class/stealing ****/getting DUIs/etc and we're in the mix every year. Wait, I know, Stoops' fault. Stoops & Co. should have been able to predict so-and-so was gonna be a dumbass or get injured and shouldn't have recruited that guy. ****ing coaches suck.

Some of you are so pathetically lazy - yes lazy is the right word cause you'd rather just point a finger at the guy at the top and go "the buck stops there." Ultimately, it does. However, if you've got half a brain in your head you'd see what's been going on around here.

Yeah, I know, it's the coach's fault he can't monitor every single player 24/7.

It's just as lazy for people to be so narrow sighted as to NEVER place responsibility on the coaches. The attitude that every shortcoming or poor performance is purely the fault of the players is just as flawed.

[budbarrybob]

We are far above V-Tech. We have vastly superior players. We play in a vastly superior conference and get it done.

We have been snakebit in the BCS, though.

No, no we don't

[C&CDean]

It's just as lazy for people to be so narrow sighted as to NEVER place responsibility on the coaches. The attitude that every shortcoming or poor performance is purely the fault of the players is just as flawed.

NEVER? Good grief dude. How about we just call a spade a spade?

Was it poor coaching that caused Whaley to break his leg? Was it poor coaching that caused two starting O-linemen to get injured for the year? Coaching caused a BUNCH of dropped passes over the past several years? Coaching made Jason White throw wide in the endzone against LSU? Coaching caused Stacey McGee to go knucklehead? Coaching caused the other injuries/missed tackles/dropped passes/whiffed blocks/penalties/etc. that we've suffered through these past couple years? Must be nice in your little world.

Poor coaching is calling an off-tackle run when the box has 9 players in it. Poor coaching is not having players coached to be in position to make a play. Poor coaching would be to bench Ryan Broyles and put Pee Wee Herman out there.

Our coaches make mistakes. All the time. However, our recent shortcomings haven't been due to poor coaching decisions. They've been due to poor on-field performance, execution, bad luck injuries, and most glaringly, player stupidity. At some point our players have got to step up and take control of themselves. As individuals and as a team. We just haven't seemed to have any player be willing to step up and be that special leader. On either side of the ball. It's been more like "**** these guys, this school, and these fans, I'm here for my shot at the NFL. Period."

[8timechamps]

No, no we don't

We actually do. Any way you want to measure it (NFL draft, statistically, All-American/Conference, Recruiting service ratings).

[En_Fuego]

How about something a little less boring ?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r266/icscrilla/shamwow.jpg

[BoulderSooner79]

Vtech is Vtech, and OU is OU.

Sorry for any confusion.

[Crimsontothecore]

NEVER? Good grief dude. How about we just call a spade a spade?

Was it poor coaching that caused Whaley to break his leg? Was it poor coaching that caused two starting O-linemen to get injured for the year? Coaching caused a BUNCH of dropped passes over the past several years? Coaching made Jason White throw wide in the endzone against LSU? Coaching caused Stacey McGee to go knucklehead? Coaching caused the other injuries/missed tackles/dropped passes/whiffed blocks/penalties/etc. that we've suffered through these past couple years? Must be nice in your little world.

Poor coaching is calling an off-tackle run when the box has 9 players in it. Poor coaching is not having players coached to be in position to make a play. Poor coaching would be to bench Ryan Broyles and put Pee Wee Herman out there.

Our coaches make mistakes. All the time. However, our recent shortcomings haven't been due to poor coaching decisions. They've been due to poor on-field performance, execution, bad luck injuries, and most glaringly, player stupidity. At some point our players have got to step up and take control of themselves. As individuals and as a team. We just haven't seemed to have any player be willing to step up and be that special leader. On either side of the ball. It's been more like "**** these guys, this school, and these fans, I'm here for my shot at the NFL. Period."
And who recruits the abundance of players we seem to have with bad attitudes? who's responsible for making sure we have guys that care? And the 'ol "we just didn't execute" crap is weak and in no way relieves coaches of responsibility. Making sure players execute is what coaches get paid many millions of dollars to do.
It amazes me that you consider "poor on-field performance" as something unrelated to coaching. Stick your head in the sand if you must but reality is still reality.

[8timechamps]

Recent article from ESPN The Mag:

LINK (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8341599/oklahoma-sooners-best-program-bcs-era-espn-magazine)

Here's the first paragraph from the article (which, by itself is explanation enough as to why VT could only dream of being OU):


The numbers splashed across the media guide are staggering: 13 straight bowl games, including eight BCS bids and four national championship game appearances; seven Big 12 titles since 2000; 81 consecutive home sellouts; 125 straight televised games; and 12 players taken in the first round of the NFL draft since 1998. And all of those stats will be larger by the end of 2012 -- two of them already are after Week 1.