DNC chit chat thread

[badger]

It starts Tuesday. Should be interesting.

[okie52]

Will Oprah endorse hussein again?

Will hussein explain what the q stands for in LGBTQ?

[Breadburner]

Which one of the 57 states is this being held in......???

[okie52]

One of the states where gays can't get married...that heartless Hussein should have moved it to a state embraces tolerance.

[badger]

Wow... not waiting till Tuesday, eh guys? :)

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I can't recall a convention starting after Labor Day.

[badger]

I can't recall a convention starting after Labor Day.

Here's a list of DNC's via Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_National_Conventions) This year's in the only one in September ever.

Also via wikipedia, a list of RNCs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republican_National_Conventions) Both 2004's and 2008's had days in September, but not sure where Labor Day fell those years.

[Breadburner]

I heard that no one attending has ever signed the front of a check just the back.....

[XingTheRubicon]

I thought you had to have ID to cash a check

[badger]

I heard that no one attending has ever signed the front of a check just the back.....

Does anyone use checks anymore?

Nope. So let me revise your joke:

I heard that no one attending has ever signed the front of a check card just the back.

...oh wait that takes out the funny cuz it's true for everyone. :mad:

[pphilfran]

An added note...you must have a legal ID to be admitted into the secure zone...those living within the zone must present an ID to get home...I stole this from a thread on another site...

http://www.demconvention.com/official-providers-distribution/

Please complete the following form regarding your organization’s primary contact information and the authorized designee(s) to whom your 2012 Democratic National Convention credentials can be issued.

Authorized Pickup

All pickup persons must have a state-issued ID that matches the name submitted below.

http://charlottein2012.com/security/

What if I live or work in a restricted area?
The City is open for business and any person who works uptown will be able to get to their place of employment. The public and private sector are planning together for a safe and successful event and working to minimize the impact of convention activities on the daily routines of Charlotteans.

Pedestrians walking to their home or business that falls into a restricted area will be required to provide identification when the road is closed. Passenger (as opposed to commercial) vehicles attempting to enter streets with restricted vehicle access must go through a vehicle checkpoint.

What type of identification is required?
A standard issued government ID is requested.

[hawaii 5-0]

Which government?

Does Kenya count?

5-0

[sappstuf]

One of the states where gays can't get married...that heartless Hussein should have moved it to a state embraces tolerance.

Also in a 'right to work' state... Convention being held in the Bank of American stadium.

[sappstuf]

An added note...you must have a legal ID to be admitted into the secure zone...those living within the zone must present an ID to get home...I stole this from a thread on another site...

http://www.demconvention.com/official-providers-distribution/

Please complete the following form regarding your organization’s primary contact information and the authorized designee(s) to whom your 2012 Democratic National Convention credentials can be issued.

Authorized Pickup

All pickup persons must have a state-issued ID that matches the name submitted below.

http://charlottein2012.com/security/

What if I live or work in a restricted area?
The City is open for business and any person who works uptown will be able to get to their place of employment. The public and private sector are planning together for a safe and successful event and working to minimize the impact of convention activities on the daily routines of Charlotteans.

Pedestrians walking to their home or business that falls into a restricted area will be required to provide identification when the road is closed. Passenger (as opposed to commercial) vehicles attempting to enter streets with restricted vehicle access must go through a vehicle checkpoint.

What type of identification is required?
A standard issued government ID is requested.

Those people should go to the Department of Justice to complain about having to show ID.. Of course they will have to show ID to get into the DOJ.

[TitoMorelli]

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2012/09/obamasand_s640x857.jpg

Wonder if they're going to haul out the Greek columns from 2008?

[rock on sooner]

Well, since many under Obama aren't laboring, it would be inappropriate to start it on Labor day.

lol..

[rock on sooner]

Love that all the pubs have so much sense of humor,
after what happened in Tampa....:biggrin:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well, you need more ID at the DNC than you do to vote. What is so wrong, you need an ID to go to the DNC, press credentials and union membership, but not to vote - WTF?

[hawaii 5-0]

I read on another Bored that some former employees at Bain are gonna speak at the convention and share how great a boss Romney is/was. Is he still on their payroll or not?


Maybe they'll get some bank tellers from the Caymans and Switzerland to tell about Romney's good handwriting at filling out deposit slips.

5-0

[LiveLaughLove]

I read on another Bored that some former employees at Bain are gonna speak at the convention and share how great a boss Romney is/was. Is he still on their payroll or not?


Maybe they'll get some bank tellers from the Caymans and Switzerland to tell about Romney's good handwriting at filling out deposit slips.

5-0

Yep, when you can't run on your own record, you attack the other guy. Chicago politics 101.

[diverdog]

Yep, when you can't run on your own record, you attack the other guy. Chicago politics 101.

What did Reagan, Bush and Bush run on? Attack the other guy. Ever hear the term Swift Boating? Republican politics 101.

[sappstuf]

I read on another Bored that some former employees at Bain are gonna speak at the convention and share how great a boss Romney is/was. Is he still on their payroll or not?


Maybe they'll get some bank tellers from the Caymans and Switzerland to tell about Romney's good handwriting at filling out deposit slips.

5-0

Unions have invested billions in Bain. California State Teachers’ Retirement System alone, has $1.25 billion in Bain.

Bain wouldn't be the evil blood-sucking vampire capitalist organization they are without the help and cash of unions...

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

What did everyone since 1800 do? Attack the other guy. Ever hear the term negro president? politics 101.
FIFY

[TitoMorelli]

What did Reagan, Bush and Bush run on? Attack the other guy. Ever hear the term Swift Boating? Republican politics 101.

Still taking up for your fellow northeastern elitists, I see.

Liberal logic. It's ok to stab your fellow servicemen in the back with unproved claims while they're putting their lives on the line half a world away. It's not ok for those whom you stabbed in the back to question your leadership ability 30 years later.

[badger]

Which government?

Does Kenya count?

5-0

Kenya doesn't even issue birth certificates (apparently).

[olevetonahill]

Kenya doesn't even issue birth certificates (apparently).

Sure they do, They buy em from Hawaii :tongue:

[rock on sooner]

Sure they do, They buy em from Hawaii :tongue:

LMAO...

[badger]

Sure they do, They buy em from Hawaii :tongue:

Outsourcing :mad:

[okie52]

Sure they do, They buy em from Hawaii :tongue:

LOL

[hawaii 5-0]

Hawaii's own Tulsi Gabbard is gonna speak today on Women's issues at the DonkFest.

She'll be a new Representative this Fall.

5-0

[FaninAma]

What did Reagan, Bush and Bush run on? Attack the other guy. Ever hear the term Swift Boating? Republican politics 101.

Reagan didn't need to attack Mondale because he(Reagan) had a record to run on and Mondale was a political moron. Dukakis was his own worst enemy although I agree the Willie Horton ad was weak but that's not the reason Michael lost. And I think the tone was set after the 2000 election by the tactics of the democrats with their September suprise and the subsequent attacks on Bush after that election. It has been negative ever since.

It will be interesting if Obama gets re-elected and he has a GOP controlled Congress. Will he move to the center like Clinton did or will he just give ther GOP and those who voted for them the bird. I tend to think he will do the later.

[TitoMorelli]

Granted that the clip below is probably edited to give the wrong impression, or taken out of context, but I still don't understand how the DNC could release a promotional video with a voice-over announcing "Government's the only thing we all belong to...."


6gLa9Te8Blw

[TheHumanAlphabet]

^^^

Uhmm, that's because that is their religion and that the FEDGOV is all powerfull and people are stupid and need to be herded.

Read up on the Progressive's ideology, O'Bummer's and The Cankled One's (HRC) mentor and Marxist's Saul Alinsky, Communist mentor Abner Mikva, The Weather Underground and Bill Ayers. All of the same cloth, no wonder O'Bummer is who he is, using the Alinsky method, he is lying low and putting out stuff quietly, a second term, you will see radical like never before.

Hell, why does the DNC party platform drop God and Isreal and Jerusalem from mention? It is all there.

[XingTheRubicon]

only mentioned food stamps twice so far (hour and a half in)

[hawaii 5-0]

I hope someone mentions our armed foces.


Something never mentiioned at the Republican Convention. The Repubs acted like our military doesn't exist.

'Cept for John McCain who just wants to start more wars.

5-0

[KABOOKIE]

Did the republicans trot out a mayor named Hitler? I don't think so.

[KABOOKIE]

Dianne Sawyer is about to wet her panties with excitement. At the RNC she could barely talk without opening her mouth.

[Sooner Eclipse]

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2012/09/obamasand_s640x857.jpg

Wonder if they're going to haul out the Greek columns from 2008?

So thats why his wife seems to always have sand in her vajayjay. And when did Fat Albert get nominated?

[KABOOKIE]

What's bigger? The constant promises of the moon by democrats or Michelle Obama's ***?

[KABOOKIE]

Wow she likes to exaggerate about her up bringing.

[KABOOKIE]

2685

[KABOOKIE]

Love, caring, sympathy and hope don't pays the bills stupid.

[sappstuf]

Love, caring, sympathy and hope don't pays the bills stupid.

Nah, that is what the unicorn horns and fairy dust is for

[hawaii 5-0]

A good line tonight.........."Mitt Romney's money needs a passport".


5-0

[hawaii 5-0]

The woman who introduced Michelle Obama has 4 sons in different branches of the military.

In Michelle's opening statement she thanked the armed forces and their families.

Neither of the Romney's ever mentioned the military. Or the war in Afghanistan.

I guess it's not important to them. Cheer away for them tho.


5-0

[TheHumanAlphabet]

5-0 that is rich, you actually think the dims care more than the repubs about the military? Keep on dreaming...And keep on making up controversy where one doesn't exist...

[KABOOKIE]

I wish the demos would talk about the economy, stupid.

[sappstuf]

I heard a clip of Julien Castro talking about the Repub failed economic policies... It was so quiet you could hear crickets chirping.. Even the Dems were thinking.. "Dude, don't bring up the economy!"

And did the party that insists that there is a war on women really run a tribute video to Ted Kennedy?? A man who knew that drowning is the real way to conduct a war on women....

[olevetonahill]

I heard a clip of Julien Castro talking about the Repub failed economic policies... It was so quiet you could hear crickets chirping.. Even the Dems were thinking.. "Dude, don't bring up the economy!"

And did the party that insists that there is a war on women really run a tribute video to Ted Kennedy?? A man who knew that drowning is the real way to conduct a war on women....


Heh, And they gonna get Ole Slick Of Blue dress fame to Nominate Obama .
Uh yea the wimmens should feel real safe :very_drunk:

[hawaii 5-0]

5-0 that is rich, you actually think the dims care more than the repubs about the military? Keep on dreaming...And keep on making up controversy where one doesn't exist...



If Romney cared so much about the military don't you think he could have at least mentioned it? He didn't.

Proof is in the puddin'. Not a word.

5-0

[sappstuf]

If Romney cared so much about the military don't you think he could have at least mentioned it? He didn't.

Proof is in the puddin'. Not a word.

5-0

You should really read the transcript because your ignorance is showing more than normal...

[sappstuf]

Granted that the clip below is probably edited to give the wrong impression, or taken out of context, but I still don't understand how the DNC could release a promotional video with a voice-over announcing "Government's the only thing we all belong to...."


6gLa9Te8Blw

Romney tweeted "We don't belong to government, the government belongs to us."

The DNC is now saying they didn't have anything to do with it.. How does it end up on its biggest stage in 4 years I wonder...


The video in question was produced and paid for by the host committee of the city of Charlotte. It’s neither an OFA nor a DNC video

[FaninAma]

A good line tonight.........."Mitt Romney's money needs a passport".


5-0

You know the irritating fact that Obama conveniently overlooks is that our own Federal Reserve sent hundreds of billions of dollars out of the country in 2009 to prop up foreign banks in Europe and Asia while hundreds of banks failed and were closed by the FDIC in this country.

Of course I am sure Mitt's own personal wealth held in overseas accounts hurt the US taxpayers much more than that.

If this isn't achievement envy I don't know what is. Just shows how hypocritical the democrats are on this issue. Every speech was a bizarre mix of extolling the virtues of achievement with the help of the government on one side and excoriating the GOP candidate for his personal high level of achievement on the other.

Only people aho make decisions on a purely emotional basis fail to see through this hypocrisy.

[FaninAma]

The woman who introduced Michelle Obama has 4 sons in different branches of the military.

In Michelle's opening statement she thanked the armed forces and their families.

Neither of the Romney's ever mentioned the military. Or the war in Afghanistan.

I guess it's not important to them. Cheer away for them tho.


5-0

So you think Obama will give the military more money in his budget than Romney will? But I thought you said in another thread you liked Obama's foreign policy of pulling and scaling back the military? You are confusing me now. You want the military to be scaled back but you criticize Romney and accuse him of not caring about the military. If you really believe that is Romney's attitude about the military I would feel you would be supportive of his perceived lack of support for the military.

Or could it be the democrats are once again being hypocritical?

[TitoMorelli]

Looks like the big Thursday outdoor pep rally has been moved indoors. Either because of a forecast of inclement weather, or a forecast of too many empty seats.

[hawaii 5-0]

So you think Obama will give the military more money in his budget than Romney will? But I thought you said in another thread you liked Obama's foreign policy of pulling and scaling back the military? You are confusing me now. You want the military to be scaled back but you criticize Romney and accuse him of not caring about the military. If you really believe that is Romney's attitude about the military I would feel you would be supportive of his perceived lack of support for the military.

Or could it be the democrats are once again being hypocritical?

I can only speak for myself.

I fully support the military but I think it should be used wisely. I don't think we should be the World Police.

Try to comprehend the difference.

5-0

[sappstuf]

Looks like the big Thursday outdoor pep rally has been moved indoors. Either because of a forecast of inclement weather, or a forecast of too many empty seats.

Can you imagine a concert or the Carolina Panters cancelling 24 hours out because of a 20% of storms? Of course, the Panthers sell all of their seats....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I can only speak for myself.

I fully support the military but I think it should be used wisely. I don't think we should be the World Police.5-0

This we can agree on.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Looks like the big Thursday outdoor pep rally has been moved indoors. Either because of a forecast of inclement weather, or a forecast of too many empty seats.
As someone living in the Charlotte area and attending the conference, there is no forecast of empty seats. I'm not voting for Obama (can't speak for the other attendees obviously), but attending the convention is a pretty unique opportunity. The weather the past few evenings has been atrocious, so its not surprising they are going indoors. Here's a picture I snapped with my not-so-smart phone

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/552061_4190803541231_1272719025_n.jpg

[TitoMorelli]

All I know is, convention officials switched from an "outdoors, rain or shine" message to an "indoors, rain or shine" message. Before last week free tickets were being offered to the event, and later free transportation by bus for those the DNC hoped to convince to show up. Not quite like 2008, when tickets were harder to come by than for a Zeppelin reunion tour.

[sappstuf]

A good line tonight.........."Mitt Romney's money needs a passport".


5-0

I was wondering what had happened to Ted Strickland after he got his butt beat in the 2010 elections...

Not much has changed.. still a loser.

[FaninAma]

I can only speak for myself.

I fully support the military but I think it should be used wisely. I don't think we should be the World Police.

Try to comprehend the difference.

5-0

I am right there with you. But that's not the question I asked. I asked you if you thought Romney would allow more funding for the military in his budget than Obama would. Or do you really think Romney's failure to mention the military in his speech meant he would cut the military's budget more than Obama since the speakers at the democratic convention mentioned the miltary so prominently in their speeches?

You're the one who thinks Romney's failure to mention the military is significant. I am just trying to find out what you really think the significance is.

BTW, I agree with you about the role of the military but I think you are dreaming if you think the military will fare better in terms of budgeted funds under Obama than it would under Romney. I would like to see the military scaled back or used for things that really serve their function of providing for the defense of the nation. I just think it is a tad hypocritical to be for a smaller military then criticize a candidate who doesn't come off sounding like a Cheney type neocon hawk.

[Skysooner]

I am right there with you. But that's not the question I asked. I asked you if you thought Romney would allow more funding for the military in his budget than Obama would. Or do you really think Romney's failure to mention the military in his speech meant he would cut the military's budget more than Obama since the speakers at the democratic convention mentioned the miltary so prominently in their speeches?

You're the one who thinks Romney's failure to mention the military is significant. I am just trying to find out what you really think the significance is.

BTW, I agree with you about the role of the military but I think you are dreaming if you think the military will fare better in terms of budgeted funds under Obama than it would under Romney. I would like to see the military scaled back or used for things that really serve their function of providing for the defense of the nation. I just think it is a tad hypocritical to be for a smaller military then criticize a candidate who doesn't come off sounding like a Cheney type neocon hawk.

I think their failure to mention Afghanistan or the military at the RNC is probably based on focus group research that says that is a losing issue for them. Romney wins on the economy and not on the military.

[hawaii 5-0]

I really don't know what Romney thinks or what his speechwriters think.

I thought he should have given a shoutout to those that serve to protect our freedoms.

5-0

[AlboSooner]

Billy C is killing it.

[marfacowboy]

Billy C is killing it.

Yeah, he's destroying the GOP. I bet Romney is glad he's not having to debate Clinton. It would be like one of us facing one of the Selmon brothers in a tackling drill. Total destruction.

[TitoMorelli]

And I always thought it was only the lib women who wanted their lips around Slick Willie's slick willie.

Silly me.

[AlboSooner]

One of his best speeches ever. Ever.

[Ton Loc]

One of his best speeches ever. Ever.

Hahaha. Watch fox news for their reaction. Classic stuff.

Dude just said swing and a miss when referencing Clinton's speech.

Clinton hooked himself up to the rejuvenation machine and threw down some classic Clinton. The guy can throw down some speeches. I think he thought he might get a chance at a third term.

[AlboSooner]

Hahaha. Watch fox news for their reaction. Classic stuff.

Dude just said swing and a miss when referencing Clinton's speech.

Look, I'm sure there's stuff you can find not to be true in his speech, but as far as the speech is concerned, in its mix of facts, seriousness, jokes, patriotism, and emotion, it was one of his best speeches ever.

Him and Reagan would go head to head in an oratory competition.

[Ton Loc]

For sure. The guy can talk. The rest of the DNC -ehh who cares.

[marfacowboy]

Clinton's still the rock star of the party. He could definitely win again if allowed to run.

[okie52]

Clinton's good. Far better at enunciating democratic objectives than Hussein. Billy's full of **** but he is believable to the uninformed and hell...that's over half of the voters.

[XingTheRubicon]

Clinton's still the rock star of the party. He could definitely win again if allowed to run.

He would win in a landslide. That was a really great speech, even if 70% of it was flat out lies. Everyone knows why he had to lie. When he was waxing poetic about Obama being a uniter...you could literally see his nose getting bigger.

[LiveLaughLove]

Clinton looked the American people in the eye and lied about his adultery. He threw that dingbat girl under the bus, which is actually better than the way he treated most women.

Nothing he says is believable. He should be in jail, not standing before an audience basking in the glow. Oh wait, it was the democrats.

Carry on.

[Midtowner]

Clinton looked the American people in the eye and lied about his adultery. He threw that dingbat girl under the bus, which is actually better than the way he treated most women.

Nothing he says is believable. He should be in jail, not standing before an audience basking in the glow. Oh wait, it was the democrats.

Carry on.

To be fair, if he'd have been convicted and sentenced to prison for perjury, he'd be out by now.

[rock on sooner]

I have listened to every president since Ike speak in public to the
public and with the exception of Kennedy's inaugural, Clinton's last
night was the best, the best in delivery, timing, effectiveness, use
of examples, every measure possible to rate a speech. Reagan was
good but triple A compared to Kennedy and Clinton in the majors!

We should repeal the 22nd Amendment so we could reelect him,
no, wait, Dubya could run again...NM...

[KABOOKIE]

Bill certainly can get the malcontents in a furry. I'll give him that. But as one said above the fools fall for this **** hook line and sinker. Billy boy likes to point out which political party was in the white house at the time of economic prosperity and hardship. Though he confidently leaves out the facts on which party controlled the House and Senate when some those budgets and regulations were passed.

[Midtowner]

Bill certainly can get the malcontents in a furry. I'll give him that. But as one said above the fools fall for this **** hook line and sinker. Billy boy likes to point out which political party was in the white house at the time of economic prosperity and hardship. Though he confidently leaves out the facts on which party controlled the House and Senate when some those budgets and regulations were passed.

Kind of the same as the Republicans being in favor of MORE market deregulation and opposed to the reimposition of Glass-Steagall? Doesn't the distortion go both ways?

[sappstuf]

He would win in a landslide. That was a really great speech, even if 70% of it was flat out lies. Everyone knows why he had to lie. When he was waxing poetic about Obama being a uniter...you could literally see his nose getting bigger.

Something is always bulging with Clinton when Hillary is out of town...

[KABOOKIE]

Kind of the same as the Republicans being in favor of MORE market deregulation and opposed to the reimposition of Glass-Steagall? Doesn't the distortion go both ways?

It sure does. But whipping malcontents into a furry doesn't stir the economy.

[hawaii 5-0]

Something is always bulging with Clinton when Hillary is out of town...


Good one.

5-0

[Sooner98]

BAN CORPORATE PROFITS!!!!

07fTsF5BiSM

[Midtowner]

It sure does. But whipping malcontents into a furry doesn't stir the economy.

This does not evoke a pleasant image.

For context, go do a google image search for furry.

-nsfw

[Sooner98]

An in-depth look into the mind of a Barack Davidian:

Schiff: "What if Obama wanted to do it, would you support him?"

Barack Davidian: "Uh, I would support anything my president wants to do."

Schiff: "Anything?"

Barack Davidian: "Anything."

[Sooner98]

"Do we need corporate profits?"

"Maybe we should just have corporate losses."

"Well, I don't want to go that far, you actually want to force corporations to LOSE money?"

"Yeah, I think so."

YAY DEMOCRATS!!!

[KABOOKIE]

Remember the Boo Blake years? "I just need more time!!!" yeah sounds familiar.

[FaninAma]

I have listened to every president since Ike speak in public to the
public and with the exception of Kennedy's inaugural, Clinton's last
night was the best, the best in delivery, timing, effectiveness, use
of examples, every measure possible to rate a speech. Reagan was
good but triple A compared to Kennedy and Clinton in the majors!

We should repeal the 22nd Amendment so we could reelect him,
no, wait, Dubya could run again...NM...

I am sure the typical democratic voter was sitting on the edge of his seat listening to Clinton drone on about statistics while going down a laundry list of items he felt he needed to counter the GOP on.

Quite honestly I fell asleep at the 30 minute mark and apparently there were fewer than 3 million viewers watching his speech...about 2% of the eligible voters in this country.

Make no mistake. Clinton has supreme command of the issues even if he needs to lie to get his point across. But the best speech of all time? Give me a freaking break.

[diverdog]

I am sure the typical democratic voter was sitting on the edge of his seat listening to Clinton drone on about statistics while going down a laundry list of items he felt he needed to counter the GOP on.

Quite honestly I fell asleep at the 30 minute mark and apparently there were fewer than 3 million viewers watching his speech...about 2% of the eligible voters in this country.

Make no mistake. Clinton has supreme command of the issues even if he needs to lie to get his point across. But the best speech of all time? Give me a freaking break.


ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT TELEVISION LAST NIGHT.....DEMARCO MURRAY IS A BEAST! 131 yards against the Giants. Wowsa!

[KABOOKIE]

Good lord could ABC nightly news do anymore fluff pieces on the president? Im not sure how Dianne Sawyer can speak with Obama's Dick that far down her throat.

[sappstuf]

ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT TELEVISION LAST NIGHT.....DEMARCO MURRAY IS A BEAST! 131 yards against the Giants. Wowsa!

That is supposed to be classified.. Where did you find the Dem policy on talking about the economy?

[diverdog]

That is supposed to be classified.. Where did you find the Dem policy on talking about the economy?

Here are the choices as I see them. Watch an old blow hard politician drone on for an hour or watch America's team beat the Giants. It weren't even close.

Honestly I have not watched either convention.

[sappstuf]

Here are the choices as I see them. Watch an old blow hard politician drone on for an hour or watch America's team beat the Giants. It weren't even close.

Honestly I have not watched either convention.

Neither have I. I have heard audio excerpts though. THE DEMOCRATS APPARENTLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT A MICROPHONE IS FOR!!!!

[sappstuf]

http://global.nationalreview.com/images/photoshop_090512_A.jpg

[marfacowboy]

Cute. I got one for you that's true:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/Br6dR/539053_454414494592973_1994452391_n.jpg

[sappstuf]

I have no clue who he is talking about.. No one I know in the Repub party wants anarchy or of ending government. Can you point it out on the party platform?

Otherwise, I cannot believe you take seriously a quote made by a guy that was hawking a book on the Daily Show. I'm sure it made that crowd whoop it up and cheer.

But, that has nothing to do with reality.

[marfacowboy]

I have no clue who he is talking about.. No one I know in the Repub party wants anarchy or of ending government. Can you point it out on the party platform?

Otherwise, I cannot believe you take seriously a quote made by a guy that was hawking a book on the Daily Show. I'm sure it made that crowd whoop it up and cheer.

But, that has nothing to do with reality.

Well, if you keep demonizing government and pushing privatization of damn near everything, that's what you get.
But you're right. Republicans don't have a clue about anarchism.

[soonercruiser]

Every time I heard Clinton say....."Now listen closely - this is important!"....
I wanted a cut-in video clip of him pointing his finger at the American citizens and saying..."I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN"!

Who would take this male slut seriously?
It's amazing what tertiary syphilis will do to the brain!
:panda:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/Clintonspeech.gif

[marfacowboy]

Every time I heard Clinton say....."Now listen closely - this is important!"....
I wanted a cut-in video of him pointing his finger at the American citizens and saying..."I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN"!

Who would take this male slut seriously?



Ah, you're just jealous. You wish you were a boss like Bill.

[soonercruiser]

Well, if you keep demonizing government and pushing privatization of damn near everything, that's what you get.
But you're right. Republicans don't have a clue about anarchism.

But, unfortunately George Soros and the "Occupy" crowd does!
(And the whole Demoncratic party supports them!) How pleasantly "spontaneous" they are!)

[marfacowboy]

Well, if you keep demonizing government and pushing privatization of damn near everything, that's what you get.
But you're right. Republicans don't have a clue about anarchism.

But, unfortunately George Soros and the "Occupy" crowd does!
(And the whole Demoncratic party supports them!) How pleasantly "spontaneous" they are!)

It's not so bad as a theory or in practice. Anarchism is essentially the same as grass roots democracy if you really break it down. It doesn't mean "no rules" or "no governance." It means consensus decision making, and it works well in small groups. Probably not so well in a nation of 300 million people.

[AlboSooner]

1. Bill
2. Michele
3. Barrack
4. Biden

[KABOOKIE]

I loved the 'story' from Michelle. Her and Barrak had a rough life together? Heh.

[sappstuf]

Biden said his father would have endorsed Obama.

His father will still probably vote for Obama in 3 states....

[AlboSooner]

Revised rankings:
1. Billy
2. Barry
3. Michelle
4. Biden (participation ribbon)

[AlboSooner]

Funny tweet
@ditzkoff: You're the reason Batman fixed his spine and climbed out of that weird prison in Dark Knight Rises, wherever that was. You did that. #DNC

[Turd_Ferguson]

Looked to me like a building full of UAW members...meh.

[okie52]

Biden said his father would have endorsed Obama.

His father will still probably vote for Obama in 3 states....

You sure not in all 57?

[sappstuf]

You sure not in all 57?

Nah, some of the red states use a little common sense and check for ID before voting.

The Dems are claiming "Deathism"...

[okie52]

Nah, some of the red states use a little common sense and check for ID before voting.

The Dems are claiming "Deathism"...

Heh...dam those voter IDs.

[KABOOKIE]

Only a fool would claim they rescued the economy after it hit rock bottom.


And just how did they rescue the economy? By continuing those same "failed policies" of the evil Bush administration....

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Transcript of Obama's speech (http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-help-us-destroy-jesus-and-start-a-new-age-of,29478/?fb_action_ids=10152106074700221&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210152106074700221%22%3A502 241889805971%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210152106074700221%22%3A%22og .likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D)

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/17/17949/16x9/635.jpg?4835



CHARLOTTE, NC—With the savage roar of the heathen Democratic horde rising all around him, President Barack Obama delivered an incendiary speech to close his party’s national convention Thursday night, commanding the ultraprogressive minions in attendance to help him “destroy Jesus and usher in a new age of liberal darkness that shall reign o’er the earth for a thousand years.”

The thunderous 45-minute address—during which the president argued for a second term so that he could “finally kill Jesus once and for all, as well as all those who worship him”—was well received by the frenzied, wild-eyed audience, whose piercing chants of “Four more years!” and “Slaughter the believers!” echoed throughout the Time Warner Cable Arena.

“My fellow Americans and godless infidels, I command you to join me as we cast an endless pall of far-left evil across the hills and valleys of our nation!” Obama bellowed from the stage, as thousands in attendance moaned in compliance and gyrated their hips and groins in a lascivious dance. “Together, as a barbarian people forged by the wicked flames of irreligiosity and united by visions of a liberal dystopia, we will rise up as one to scorch the earth with boundless amorality.”

“The streets shall run red with the blood of forced sodomy, performed daily upon every American man, woman, and child!” the commander-in-chief shouted, froth forming around his mouth as the crowd threw hundreds of aborted fetuses onto the stage. “Die, Christians, die!”

Slamming his fists on the lectern until his hands began to bleed, Obama proceeded to lay out a “three-point plan of sin and lechery” for his second term. If reelected, the president said, he would begin by banning organized religion entirely—starting with Christianity—and burning all churches to the ground, preferably “with their wretched, Jesus-loving congregants still huddled inside like rats.”

As members of the audience violently tugged at their genitals and howled like sex-starved, atheist wolves, Obama stated that his administration would then seek to make free, taxpayer-funded abortions legal at any stage of pregnancy, even up to one full year after birth, in order to supply his newly created “federal stem-cell harvesting plants” with raw materials.

In addition, the cackling president vowed to “end traditional marriage as we know it” by passing legislation that would allow only homosexuals to raise children, a longtime Democratic policy goal.

“A glorious new age of sinister, unconstrained liberalism is dawning! Oh, dear Satan, I can feel it coursing through my veins at this very moment!” shrieked Obama, ripping off his shirt to reveal an ornate tattoo of a pentagram, with a different homosexual act positioned at each of the star’s five points. “Agnosticism, contempt for human life, and radical sexual experimentation shall rule the day! Any good, virtuous, family-values-oriented Christian Americans who seek to topple our magnificent liberal kingdom of eternal darkness will be powerless to stop us! We will crush them!”

Added Obama, “Thank you, may Satan reward you all, and may God tremble in fear at the United States of America!”

The president was then handed an unbaptized, orphaned newborn baby drenched in the blood of 666 slaughtered Christians, which he handed over to its new, gleefully squealing homosexual parents.

[rock on sooner]

I am sure the typical democratic voter was sitting on the edge of his seat listening to Clinton drone on about statistics while going down a laundry list of items he felt he needed to counter the GOP on.

Quite honestly I fell asleep at the 30 minute mark and apparently there were fewer than 3 million viewers watching his speech...about 2% of the eligible voters in this country.

Make no mistake. Clinton has supreme command of the issues even if he needs to lie to get his point across. But the best speech of all time? Give me a freaking break.

Nielsen ratings said that Clinton viewers numbered 25.1 million versus
just over 20 million for the Cowboys game......

Dint say the best of all time, said it was the best I'd heard in almost 60
years.....typical...

[FaninAma]

Nielsen ratings said that Clinton viewers numbered 25.1 million versus
just over 20 million for the Cowboys game......

Dint say the best of all time, said it was the best I'd heard in almost 60
years.....typical...

I just heard the numbers from the radio coming into work the next morning. Can you provide a link to the Nielson numbers? I would be shocked if more people watched Clinton's standup comedy routine than watched the football game.

This site disagrees with Nielsen: The football game outdrew Billy. http://riehlworldview.com/2012/09/accounts-of-clinton-vs-football-television-ratings-differ.html

Although I was wrong on the 3 million number by quite a bit.

[sappstuf]

New job numbers out.

96K new jobs.. Not enough to keep up with population growth(again)

Unemployment dropped to 8.1% because 368K people left the job market. Job growth in June and July were downwardly revised by about 40K jobs.....

I sure am glad Obama rescued the economy.......

[FaninAma]

New job numbers out.

96K new jobs.. Not enough to keep up with population growth(again)

Unemployment dropped to 8.1% because 368K people left the job market. Job growth in June and July were downwardly revised by about 40K jobs.....

I sure am glad Obama rescued the economy.......

Democratic response: Well we're not spending enough money. Forget that the Federal Reserve has pumped about 7 trillion dollars into the economy since 2008 and the federal government has ran a YEARLY deficit of 1.3 Trillion dollars since Obama was elected. It's not enough I tell ya !

The sad fact is that the hucksters and casino players on Wall Street are so used to the government's and Fed's response that they actually cheer on bad news because they know more money will be pumped into the system which results in inflated prices for everything....especially the stock market.

I guess the Fed could start giving away money at 0% or negative interest rates. That's the only place they can go.

[rock on sooner]

I just heard the numbers from the radio coming into work the next morning. Can you provide a link to the Nielson numbers? I would be shocked if more people watched Clinton's standup comedy routine than watched the football game.

This site disagrees with Nielsen: The football game outdrew Billy. http://riehlworldview.com/2012/09/accounts-of-clinton-vs-football-television-ratings-differ.html

Although I was wrong on the 3 million number by quite a bit.

Don't have a link...article in Des Moines Register with a New York by line..
says that between 10 P.M. and 11 P.M. 25.1 million people were watching
the DNC and during that same hour just over 20 million were watching the
NFL. Could be that for the entire game it outdrew the DNC, the article
didn't make that distinction, but did note the ratings for the game were
down from the past two years.

[FaninAma]

Don't have a link...article in Des Moines Register with a New York by line..
says that between 10 P.M. and 11 P.M. 25.1 million people were watching
the DNC and during that same hour just over 20 million were watching the
NFL. Could be that for the entire game it outdrew the DNC, the article
didn't make that distinction, but did note the ratings for the game were
down from the past two years.

Then he did a lot better than I thought. I do think the new jobs numbers put a damper on the whole DNC convention, though.

[rock on sooner]

Then he did a lot better than I thought. I do think the new jobs numbers put a damper on the whole DNC convention, though.

You're prolly right about the damper...my head's already spinning from
the "spin"...

[marfacowboy]

New job numbers out.

96K new jobs.. Not enough to keep up with population growth(again)

Unemployment dropped to 8.1% because 368K people left the job market. Job growth in June and July were downwardly revised by about 40K jobs.....

I sure am glad Obama rescued the economy.......

Oh, it's now government's responsibility to rescue the economy. I thought the private sector could do it all alone.
There will NEVER be enough job growth to keep up with population growth. At some point, the nation will have to address population issues, as well as the notion that the economy can grow ad infinitum.
Infinite growth in a world of finite resources is not possible. Time to start thinking steady state....

[TheHumanAlphabet]

But you're right. Republicans don't have a clue about anarchism.

Your right on that, the Repubs don't have a clue about anarchism. We all want stability, the kind we can make a living, save money and buy things. Things like The Socialist in chief, and his mentors like Weather Underground anarchist Bill Ayers and Communist mentor Abner Mikva don't believe in. Now they believe in anarchy.

[sappstuf]

Oh, it's now government's responsibility to rescue the economy. I thought the private sector could do it all alone.
There will NEVER be enough job growth to keep up with population growth. At some point, the nation will have to address population issues, as well as the notion that the economy can grow ad infinitum.
Infinite growth in a world of finite resources is not possible. Time to start thinking steady state....

It only takes about 125 to 150K to match population growth... Somewhat normal except during the Obama "recovery" years.

It isn't the government's job to rescue the economy.. The private sector can do it all alone.. Starting with voting Obama out.

[marfacowboy]

Your right on that, the Repubs don't have a clue about anarchism. We all want stability, the kind we can make a living, save money and buy things. Things like The Socialist in chief, and his mentors like Weather Underground anarchist Bill Ayers and Communist mentor Abner Mikva don't believe in. Now they believe in anarchy.

This is absurd. Obama has no relationship whatsoever with Ayers. Why do you people keep bringing up this bull****? You're grasping at straws and don't even know that these terms mean.
Communism and anarchism are completely different systems of governance. Different is not the same.

[marfacowboy]

It only takes about 125 to 150K to match population growth... Somewhat normal except during the Obama "recovery" years.

Huh? It's interesting how people always leave out biological and geophysical factors when discussing economics. Obama's guilty of it, too.


It isn't the government's job to rescue the economy.. The private sector can do it all alone.. Starting with voting Obama out.

Then why do you keep busting his balls about it? Where was the private sector rescue and stability in the 1930's? Where was it in '08? Where is it in Europe?
You must have a cooperative balance between public and private in an industrialized capitalist economy in order to have stability?
Did any of you people take Political Science, Economics or History? Biology or Geology? My god.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

First of all, every person I mentioned is a friend of The Socialist and both have mentored him. The commie ploy, read Alinsky, another friend of The Socialist, is all about using anarchy to drive a wedge and then pounce when there is enough confusion that they can take power by any means necessary.

[sappstuf]

Huh? It's interesting how people always leave out biological and geophysical factors when discussing economics. Obama's guilty of it, too.

It takes about 125 to 150K new jobs every month to match population growth. It isn't that difficult to understand.


Then why do you keep busting his balls about it? Where was the private sector rescue and stability in the 1930's? Where was it in '08? Where is it in Europe?
You must have a cooperative balance between public and private in an industrialized capitalist economy in order to have stability?
Did any of you people take Political Science, Economics or History? Biology or Geology? My god.

Oh I don't know... Probably because he blew a trillion dollars and said if we didn't do what he wanted that unemployment would be 6% today.... Clearly, we should have called his bluff.

Your god apparently.. Not the Democratic Party's God. They roundly booed him 3 times at the convention.

[okie52]

Huh? It's interesting how people always leave out biological and geophysical factors when discussing economics. Obama's guilty of it, too.



Then why do you keep busting his balls about it? Where was the private sector rescue and stability in the 1930's? Where was it in '08? Where is it in Europe?
You must have a cooperative balance between public and private in an industrialized capitalist economy in order to have stability?
Did any of you people take Political Science, Economics or History? Biology or Geology? My god.

Actually, I had all of those courses. Please explain what geology and geophysics has to do with the economy apart from Obama's suppression of oil and gas exploration.

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

This is absurd. Obama has no relationship whatsoever with Ayers. Why do you people keep bringing up this bull****? You're grasping at straws and don't even know that these terms mean.
Communism and anarchism are completely different systems of governance. Different is not the same.

you're joking, right? if not you really are blinded by the light of your false diety.

[XingTheRubicon]

Ayers has admitted to having Obama in is home in 2008. Some say it was for a small fundraiser, some don't. Apparently, they had tea.


marfa, you need to sit a few out, maybe read more

[marfacowboy]

Actually, I had all of those courses. Please explain what geology and geophysics has to do with the economy apart from Obama's suppression of oil and gas exploration.

I think you mean geophysics and biology....
It's simple. Industrial human societies require water, soil, and fossil fuel. Economic growth is tied to all of these things, because they're all required for agriculture, exploration and development, etc. We're already seeing the effects of industrial agriculture on aquifers. Now you want to use even more water, prodigious amounts of water, for fracking in arid parts of the country. Parts of the country that are in extended drought. More people need more food. Agriculture and ranching need heavy amounts of fuel and water.
Ecosystems are delicate, and if you do too much damage, often with too much growth and development, you create a lot of problems. The Comanche learned that lesson in the 19th century.
It's all tied together. There's no free lunch.

[marfacowboy]

Ayers has admitted to having Obama in is home in 2008. Some say it was for a small fundraiser, some don't. Apparently, they had tea.


marfa, you need to sit a few out, maybe read more

From Wiki: Investigations by The New York Times, CNN, and other news organizations concluded that Obama does not have a close relationship with Ayers.

Jesus ****ing God...you people just never give up. You'll take even the smallest thing and turn it into something it's not. You're full of ****.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You believe CNN and the NYT? Geez, these guys are up in it. Ayers is right in there with O'Bummer.

And no, your rantings will not silence the message. O'bummer is wrong and his ideas are wrong.

[okie52]

I think you mean geophysics and biology....
It's simple. Industrial human societies require water, soil, and fossil fuel. Economic growth is tied to all of these things, because they're all required for agriculture, exploration and development, etc. We're already seeing the effects of industrial agriculture on aquifers. Now you want to use even more water, prodigious amounts of water, for fracking in arid parts of the country. Parts of the country that are in extended drought. More people need more food. Agriculture and ranching need heavy amounts of fuel and water.
Ecosystems are delicate, and if you do too much damage, often with too much growth and development, you create a lot of problems. The Comanche learned that lesson in the 19th century.
It's all tied together. There's no free lunch.


I was just going by the courses you quoted. We've already discussed the need for population reduction...which we agree on for the most part. I agree with what you are saying although I wasn't following the geophysical aspects until you got into hydrology.

1,000,000,000> 8,000,000,000 150,000,000>300,000,000

[XingTheRubicon]

From Wiki: Investigations by The New York Times, CNN, and other news organizations concluded that Obama does not have a close relationship with Ayers.

Jesus ****ing God...you people just never give up. You'll take even the smallest thing and turn it into something it's not. You're full of ****.

I noticed you didn't address the terrorist ADMITTING Obama was in his living room for a small fundraiser. That's all I said...never claimed any "close" relationship. You said that, not me. You're full of sh*t. STFU.

[rock on sooner]

Wow, you guys talk so kind to one another....

[FaninAma]

Oh, it's now government's responsibility to rescue the economy. I thought the private sector could do it all alone.
There will NEVER be enough job growth to keep up with population growth. At some point, the nation will have to address population issues, as well as the notion that the economy can grow ad infinitum.
Infinite growth in a world of finite resources is not possible. Time to start thinking steady state....

So he's not advocating using the governement to save the economy? Great! What is his plan?

[marfacowboy]

Wow, you guys talk so kind to one another....

Yeah, we're a happy family. If were having this discussion in a bar, there would have already been a movie grade knock down drag out fight. Like in Junior Bonner...lol.

[marfacowboy]

So he's not advocating using the governement to save the economy? Great! What is his plan?

Jeez Louise....You guys are the ones blaming Obama for not fixing the economy, yet you claim you can fix all by yourselves in the private sector if government would only "butt out." The problem is the historical record from the 1930's to the present day doesn't support your argument. Even your party superstar, Reagan, knew better.
Conservatives in 2012 have caved into the Tea Party. You've allowed their bat **** crazy ideas to ruin what used to be a reasonable party. The days of Goldwater and Buckley are dead and buried, and it's a shame. You've become a party of anti-intellectual dolts.

[pphilfran]

Oh, it's now government's responsibility to rescue the economy. I thought the private sector could do it all alone.
There will NEVER be enough job growth to keep up with population growth. At some point, the nation will have to address population issues, as well as the notion that the economy can grow ad infinitum.
Infinite growth in a world of finite resources is not possible. Time to start thinking steady state....

You are off base...for the next 10 years us baby boomers will be leaving jobs and that is a lot of openings..and with the lower current birth rates it won't really be a problem filling those jobs for a decades or so..

At some point in time population growth will be an issue...but controlling that growth will open a whole new can of worms...consider how SS and other fed and business entitlements will deal with the declining growth rate of workers that support those that are retired...

Once we get out of our current mess we will be faced with future problems that are just as concerning...

You are at least as radical as Sap only the polar opposite...you do far too little research and listen far too much to DC rhetoric...

[Turd_Ferguson]

Wow, you guys talk so kind to one another....**** you.

[pphilfran]

Jeez Louise....You guys are the ones blaming Obama for not fixing the economy, yet you claim you can fix all by yourselves in the private sector if government would only "butt out." The problem is the historical record from the 1930's to the present day doesn't support your argument. Even your party superstar, Reagan, knew better.
Conservatives in 2012 have caved into the Tea Party. You've allowed their bat **** crazy ideas to ruin what used to be a reasonable party. The days of Goldwater and Buckley are dead and buried, and it's a shame. You've become a party of anti-intellectual dolts.


Obama made promises even in the face of the "Worst Recession Since the Depression!"

So they knew it was going to be damn bad yet they still touted promises that were going to be nearly impossible to keep...

To be the "Worst Recession Since the Depression!" they needed to top these numbers from 1980-1982

Unemployment peaking at 10.8% and stayed above 8% for 26 months...so unemployment was going to be a frigging disaster
Prime rates peaking at 21.5% and staying above 10% from Oct 1978 till May of 1985
Inflation rate peaking at 14.76% in March of 1980 and staying above 8% from Sept 1978 until Feb of 1982...

[FaninAma]

Jeez Louise....You guys are the ones blaming Obama for not fixing the economy, yet you claim you can fix all by yourselves in the private sector if government would only "butt out." The problem is the historical record from the 1930's to the present day doesn't support your argument. Even your party superstar, Reagan, knew better.
Conservatives in 2012 have caved into the Tea Party. You've allowed their bat **** crazy ideas to ruin what used to be a reasonable party. The days of Goldwater and Buckley are dead and buried, and it's a shame. You've become a party of anti-intellectual dolts.

Marfa, what we don't want or think the country needs is more deficit spending. we think that is harmful to the economy.

And tell us specifically what Reagan would have diagreed with the Tea Party about? I've heard this refrain over and over again from the left yet they never say anything specific to support that assertion. Are you saying he raised taxes. I guess he did in return for a pledge by the democrates to cut spending....a pledge they never kept. I suspect he would be on the frontlines today wanting the democrates to show they are serious about cutting the budget before he agreed to raise taxes again.

And I guess if wanting the government to cut spending makes you bat**** crazy then I am bat**** crazy. If thinking traveling down the same path to financial destruction is the right choice makes you sane then call the guys in the white coats with butterfly nets to come and get me right now.

[pphilfran]

Then we had the Savings and Loan crisis that saw 1/4 of S&Ls fail..

Chrysler needed bailed out...

[Midtowner]

Deficit spending in the short run is great for the economy. It's all of the short term benefits of government spending without any of the negative consequences of taxation. Assuming a reasonable rate of inflation and growth, we grow our way out of any reasonable debt. Without it, a lot of states wouldn't have been able to make it in '09.

Imagine if we had zero deficit spending, we would have to do something drastic, like cut the entire military. Imagine all that unemployment, the number of military contractors going belly up, etc. That's the effect of government spending. It does absolutely create jobs--and good ones.

We're nowhere near as bad off with debt as we've been. Coming out of WWII, we had a debt of around 80% of GDP. To take care of that, (AMAZINGLY) we didn't lower taxes. In fact, we had a top rate of 91% and guess what? Things came back under control.

--those dang 1950s socialists... Ike, you Red commie pinko.

[rock on sooner]

Yeah, we're a happy family. If were having this discussion in a bar, there would have already been a movie grade knock down drag out fight. Like in Junior Bonner...lol.

Well, if happy family is what you describe, prolly should talk to
TF...

[rock on sooner]

**** you.

No thanks, my shots aren't current....

[marfacowboy]

You are off base...for the next 10 years us baby boomers will be leaving jobs and that is a lot of openings..and with the lower current birth rates it won't really be a problem filling those jobs for a decades or so..

At some point in time population growth will be an issue...but controlling that growth will open a whole new can of worms...consider how SS and other fed and business entitlements will deal with the declining growth rate of workers that support those that are retired...

Once we get out of our current mess we will be faced with future problems that are just as concerning...

You are at least as radical as Sap only the polar opposite...you do far too little research and listen far too much to DC rhetoric...

I don't really listen to DC rhetoric. I agreed with some of what Obama said, but I found areas to criticize, as well. For example, he used the term "clean coal." What an oxymoron. He talked about opening more public lands for oil exploration, something I'm not in favor of, but it may not mean much. There are millions of acres of federal minerals in small tracts (640 acres or less, some as small as a fraction of an acre) scattered all over the west in the middle of leased fee mineral tracts that might as well be leased. Many of these are in fact split-estate lands so the US doesn't own the surface anyway.
I'm definitely left of the Democrats when it comes to environment and economics. I'm probably closer to a Green Party platform, although I'm also a gun owner and a hunter. I believe the right mixture of socialism (employee owned companies and cooperatives) and free market capitalism bound by biological and geophysical reality is our best hope.
I believe in local economies. I value green space over development. I do like redevelopment.
And I do tons of research.
Economies function within ecosystems. Population levels, be it human or non-human should be within balance, and the economies would be far more stable if you could move closer to steady state economic system. But no one is ever going to utter this in mainstream politics. It would be political suicide. It's much better for them to keep preaching the mantra of growth, a completely unsustainable doctrine, than tell the uncomfortable truth about our system. Few want to hear it.
If you want to fix the job problem do two things. One, bring more jobs back to America, and two, educate your workers for a more advanced and sophisticated industrial model. Think local production for local consumption.

[pphilfran]

Deficit spending in the short run is great for the economy. It's all of the short term benefits of government spending without any of the negative consequences of taxation. Assuming a reasonable rate of inflation and growth, we grow our way out of any reasonable debt. Without it, a lot of states wouldn't have been able to make it in '09.

Imagine if we had zero deficit spending, we would have to do something drastic, like cut the entire military. Imagine all that unemployment, the number of military contractors going belly up, etc. That's the effect of government spending. It does absolutely create jobs--and good ones.

We're nowhere near as bad off with debt as we've been. Coming out of WWII, we had a debt of around 80% of GDP. To take care of that, (AMAZINGLY) we didn't lower taxes. In fact, we had a top rate of 91% and guess what? Things came back under control.

--those dang 1950s socialists... Ike, you Red commie pinko.

A good post other than receipts as a % of GDP was above 20% for two years (1944 and 1945) and then dropped to our historical average of 17 -18% after the war ended...and those type revenue numbers will not begin to get us where we need to be... table 1.2 http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

And then when looking at where that revenue came from only about 11% came from the Trust Funds where today 50% comes from the Trust Funds... table 1.4

[marfacowboy]

Marfa, what we don't want or think the country needs is more deficit spending. we think that is harmful to the economy.

And tell us specifically what Reagan would have diagreed with the Tea Party about? I've heard this refrain over and over again from the left yet they never say anything specific to support that assertion. Are you saying he raised taxes. I guess he did in return for a pledge by the democrates to cut spending....a pledge they never kept. I suspect he would be on the frontlines today wanting the democrates to show they are serious about cutting the budget before he agreed to raise taxes again.

And I guess if wanting the government to cut spending makes you bat**** crazy then I am bat**** crazy. If thinking traveling down the same path to financial destruction is the right choice makes you sane then call the guys in the white coats with butterfly nets to come and get me right now.

Reagan raised taxes and spent (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/opinion/krugman-reagan-was-a-keynesian.html). Compare nation states in serious economic trouble that adopted austerity programs with countries that adopted, as Midtowner states, short term spending programs in order to right the ship.

We just don't agree on the solution, but the historical record of results is on our side.

[pphilfran]

Reagan raised taxes and spent (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/opinion/krugman-reagan-was-a-keynesian.html). Compare nation states in serious economic trouble that adopted austerity programs with countries that adopted, as Midtowner states, short term spending programs in order to right the ship.

We just don't agree on the solution, but the historical record of results is on our side.

There are big differences between what Ronnie did and the reasons he did them then what we are seeing today...each situation needs to be looked at individually and policy should be put in place based on today's needs and not what we did 30 years ago...

Raising taxes now would not be smart...we shot our wad 3 years ago (and did not put in enough actual stimulus) and now we are so deep in the hole that we have nothing else to really use to get us out of our problem...we had no room for error 3 years ago and the policy failed to do what was promised...so we are now a screwed pooch and getting out of this mess is going to be extremely painful....

[pphilfran]

See...you ignored my reply to Mid...he stated the revenue increases from the war debt...but we are in a different situation since Trust Fund money is a much larger percentage of total revenue...to get general revenue up to the area we had in 1945 we would need total revenue up near 25% if GDP...and that ain't gonna happen...

So, like I said, you only look at what you want and ignore my post with data and facts to support my stance...

[FaninAma]

Reagan raised taxes and spent (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/opinion/krugman-reagan-was-a-keynesian.html). Compare nation states in serious economic trouble that adopted austerity programs with countries that adopted, as Midtowner states, short term spending programs in order to right the ship.

We just don't agree on the solution, but the historical record of results is on our side.

Are you counting the 1980 tax bill as a tax increase? If so then I will have to disagree with you. Reagan did come back later and raised taxes but that was in his second term and I don't remember the economy really taking off like it did in his first term.

I would go for a tax increase and reduction in spending rate increases like we saw in the 90's with Clinton and a GOP Congress. I just don't think Obama's background will allow him to reach across and work with a GOP congress if that is the result of this election.

And I agree with phil. Government spending doesn't produce the same results now as it did in the 80's. It is called the Law of Diminishing Returns.

For increased spending to be effective then consumption cannot be static. Lately increased government spending has not led to increased consumption. Smart individuals and comapanies are using the free money to reduce their debt load. It is not getting to the consumer. Plus I will maintain that inflation is a lot higher than the government claims so consumers in the lower and low middle class need the increased stimulus just to stay even to where they were a few years ago in terms of buying necessities.

[pphilfran]

For those that want to go back to wartime tax revenue...some numbers for ya....I am adding the interfund tranfers (whatever they are) to the total revenue number from 2011...(and I could be wrong in doing this but it will cause the following calculations to be best case) ...in 1945 interfund transfers were insignificant

In 1944 and 1945 we pulled in a combined 88.9 billion in revenue...Trust funds accounted for 8.94 billion of that combined 88.9 billion or 10% of total revenue...

In 1944 and 1945 revenue averaged 20.65% of GDP which includes the Trust Funds 10%..subtract that 10% that came from Trust Funds and we had 18.6% in General Revenue to spend to reduce the debt...

Remember that number 18.6%

In 2011 we pulled in a combined 3.054 trillion in revenue (includes interfund transfers)..Trust Funds accounted for 1.623 of that 3.054 trillion or 53% of total revenue...ouch...

In 2011 revenue averaged 15.4% of GDP which also includes the Trust Fund..remove the 53% of Trust Fund money and we have an actual General Revenue to GDP of 7.6%...

Now, to get to that 18.6% of General Revenue from 1944 and 1945 we must increase overall taxes, outside of Trust Funds, by a minimal 150%...or thereabouts...

That shouldn't be any problem...

And even with that severe increase in taxes we would still just barely pay for the spending that is currently at 24% of GDP... US debt would still be at the same level and growing at 80 million a minute....

Our only hope is to get the economy turned around...if that does not happen soon...and I mean soon...we will have a nearly impossible task of getting our growing debt and interest payments, that are growing at 15% a year from 200 billion in 2010 to an estimated 565 billion in 2017, in control....table 3.1

So don't try to blow smoke up my *** about raising taxes and getting out of this mess...

[soonercruiser]

Deficit spending in the short run is great for the economy. It's all of the short term benefits of government spending without any of the negative consequences of taxation. Assuming a reasonable rate of inflation and growth, we grow our way out of any reasonable debt. Without it, a lot of states wouldn't have been able to make it in '09.

Imagine if we had zero deficit spending, we would have to do something drastic, like cut the entire military. Imagine all that unemployment, the number of military contractors going belly up, etc. That's the effect of government spending. It does absolutely create jobs--and good ones.

We're nowhere near as bad off with debt as we've been. Coming out of WWII, we had a debt of around 80% of GDP. To take care of that, (AMAZINGLY) we didn't lower taxes. In fact, we had a top rate of 91% and guess what? Things came back under control.

--those dang 1950s socialists... Ike, you Red commie pinko.

Mid!
Aren't you the person who loves to criticize others for making bad comparisons??
Duh!
Bad comparison! After the war the war machine of productivity converted immediately to goods for the people....like the refrigerator my father was promised!
As bad as Bill Clinton taking credit for the great economny during his years of Presidential puberty!
Duh!
:distrust:

[sappstuf]

For those that want to go back to wartime tax revenue...some numbers for ya....I am adding the interfund tranfers (whatever they are) to the total revenue number from 2011...(and I could be wrong in doing this but it will cause the following calculations to be best case) ...in 1945 interfund transfers were insignificant

In 1944 and 1945 we pulled in a combined 88.9 billion in revenue...Trust funds accounted for 8.94 billion of that combined 88.9 billion or 10% of total revenue...

In 1944 and 1945 revenue averaged 20.65% of GDP which includes the Trust Funds 10%..subtract that 10% that came from Trust Funds and we had 18.6% in General Revenue to spend to reduce the debt...

Remember that number 18.6%

In 2011 we pulled in a combined 3.054 trillion in revenue (includes interfund transfers)..Trust Funds accounted for 1.623 of that 3.054 trillion or 53% of total revenue...ouch...

In 2011 revenue averaged 15.4% of GDP which also includes the Trust Fund..remove the 53% of Trust Fund money and we have an actual General Revenue to GDP of 7.6%...

Now, to get to that 18.6% of General Revenue from 1944 and 1945 we must increase overall taxes, outside of Trust Funds, by a minimal 150%...or thereabouts...

That shouldn't be any problem...

And even with that severe increase in taxes we would still just barely pay for the spending that is currently at 24% of GDP... US debt would still be at the same level and growing at 80 million a minute....

Our only hope is to get the economy turned around...if that does not happen soon...and I mean soon...we will have a nearly impossible task of getting our growing debt and interest payments, that are growing at 15% a year from 200 billion in 2010 to an estimated 565 billion in 2017, in control....table 3.1

So don't try to blow smoke up my *** about raising taxes and getting out of this mess...

It appears the only response to your excellent post is...

http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/108/001/108001537_640.jpg

[marfacowboy]

And I agree with phil. Government spending doesn't produce the same results now as it did in the 80's. It is called the Law of Diminishing Returns.

How do you know that?

[soonercruiser]

And again......Obama promises to reduce the deficit.....that he didn't give any attention to in his first try!
Duh!

[FaninAma]

How do you know that?

Because the citizens of the country have maxed out their ability to take on new debt and so their ability to consume and drive the economy remains static. It is a good example of the Law of Diminishing Returns. Taking on a some debt can be a good thing but there becomes a point that accumulating too much debt has less and less positive result and if carried too far can actually hurt consumers ability to spend.

The example often used is applying fertilizer to a field of crops. At some point you reach a point that more fertilizer application produces less and less reults and can even reach the point that it negatively affects the crop production.

Just replace fertilizer with debt/stimulus spending and the field of crops with our consumer driven economy.

[Mazeppa]

President Obama Fails to Make the Case for Re-election in Charlotte
By Jay Haug

Toward the end of President Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte last night, he said something unusual. He paused and remarked. "I am no longer a candidate. I am the president." The audience cheered. It was as if Mr. Obama was trying to draw water from the campaign well of 2008. Was he insecure? Did he feel he wasn't qualified to be president? Many felt he was not back then. Was he pleading with the audience to not allow the Republicans to take it away? Did he have to remind the audience that he has actually governed for nearly four years? Or did he remind them because his presidency has been one long candidacy? It was some or all of the above, with his famous "I" statements thrown in for recognition.

This is a tired presidency. Obama's performance in Charlotte felt like a reunion of buddies trying to recapture the magic of years ago. The Obama true-believers with beatific smiles on their faces were in need of some "hair of the dog" from 2008 to keep them going. They got it in a rambling speech filled with one-liners from a president who did almost nothing to defend his actual record. The president offered "bold, persistent experimentation" for the future without defending why that recipe had not only failed but scared more the half the population. He pleaded that "our problems can be solved" and "not always by another government program." But he did not explain why "another government program" always seems to be the medicine.

Are you sick of the work "invest?" For clarification purposes it means "raise taxes." Someone should go through every speech in Charlotte and change "invest" to "tax" to get the real meaning. Obama regaled the audience with private sector stories, people who have succeeded. After all, this is America. But the key to understanding the Charlotte Democrats and Obama is this. The private sector gets their rhetoric. Government gets the money, programs and effort.

Democrats are the party of government. What unites Americans, they unashamedly told us, is government. Citizenship means, not the endless and layered private and community associations touted by de Tocqueville in Democracy in America, but loyalty and praise for the federal government and its programs. Obama said the usual "we believe that anybody can become the next Steve Jobs" but went on to say "it is within our power to do that." The context and implication is that government or federally provided student loans or some other hand-out will do that. He already said "You didn't build that." He tells now that yes, we, the government, can. He ironically proclaimed that "government is not the source of all our problems." How about some?

On energy, President Obama was disingenuous. He claimed that "we cut oil imports" during his time in office, when the actual figures show we are more dependent on foreign oil since January 2009. He touted energy development and output, when most of the output was due to higher energy prices and new technology, much of which he opposes. He made no attempt to defend his dismal record in shutting down energy production. He did, however, address "the threat to our children's future." Was this the exploding national debt? No. Climate change.

On tuition costs, Mr. Obama pledged to cut them in half while refusing to address the real cause, the dangerous reliance on government subsidized student loans which have driven college costs through the roof. How he planned to reduce them he didn't say.

On foreign policy, truth was hard to find. He praised his administration for ending the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the easy part of war. In the former, more Americans have been killed since he took office than before. He counted the military as "making us safer and more respected" in the world, as if our brave women and men in uniform live to serve his foreign policy interests. One gets the feeling from many Democrats that the military are props in their culture war. On Israel, he said that our support "must not waiver" though waiver it has. Mr .Obama also appeared to equate defense spending with wars, as if a strong military got us into them instead of preventing them. Dangerous thinking there.

But he did address reductions in spending a $1 billion agreement with Republicans and a $4 billion reduction in oil subsidies, pocket change in Washington these days. He accused Republicans of wanting government to do "almost nothing." Really? Perhaps in his view "cutting something" and doing "almost nothing" are nearly identical. Democrats and Obama touted "saving the auto companies" when in fact what really happened was that Mr. Obama wiped out existing GM stockholders and gave 60% of the company to the unions. and GM is still in need of tens of billions of dollars. The stock has no dividend and is going nowhere.

Finally, there appeared to be modest adjustment to the Obamamania of 2008. Hope and change is now "faith and hope." The president appeared to be asking "do you still believe in me?" Are you willing to trust your own eyes or my words? He mentioned the path ahead would be harder and longer but did not disabuse many Americans of this hard fact: President Obama himself has made it harder and longer through exploding debt, choking regulation, profligate spending and a misguided attempt to remake the nations health insurance industry. This is the kind of "Forward" most Americans disbelieve in.

Many of the delegates seemed to be distracted, tired and bored by the time Mr. Obama took the stage. But that was not going to deter him from one more shot. At the end, he gave one more try for the medicine of 2008. "The election four years ago was not about me. It was about you." He seemed to be asking, "Are you still with me?" Are you willing to overlook four years and do it all again? In the view of many who heard his speech, that question remains unanswered for most of us outside the camp of true believers.