Tea Party or Taliban?

[Midtowner]

I realize that Andrew Sorkin is kind of a political hack, but in the Newsroom finale, the main character does a monologue where he compares the Tea Party to the Taliban.

The point isn't that the Tea Party beheads people it disagrees with, but rather there are quite a few similarities between the Tea Party and the Taliban, and by extension most hard-right groups such as:

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.

[XingTheRubicon]

I love how not wanting to pay for abortions and f*ck pills, is "controlling women's bodies." Kill all the liberal babies you want; just don't ask me to subsidize you being a careless whore. That seems fair.

Also, pretty much the tea party's biggest offense, or what liberals despise the most, was the fact that they were effective. In 2010, that was a legendary *ss kicking, unprecedented for 70 years. Conversely, the occupy dregs had minimal effect on anything substantive short of entertainment value with the riots, rapes (forcible), and literally sh*tting on each other.

[SoonerAtKU]

I'm going to reply with something I posted previously, X. It's apropos here, I believe.

The saddest thing to me is that people who oppose abortion tend to also oppose safe sex education and contraceptives being readily available to those who need them. This is the worst idea, in my opinion. We can all agree that abortion is a terrible thing, and an infinitely worse choice than safe sex. Why would we not support programs and education that would lead to less abortions?

The combination of the two always reeks of slut-shaming to me. Those who feel that way seem to want there to be negative consequences for a woman engaging in unmarried sex. She either runs the risk of disease or pregnancy, but either way, the slut gets put in her rightful place of being ashamed of sex. It happens here, too. "Should have kept her legs shut"

It implies a moral or foundational weakness of the woman involved and it's a sincere problem. The fact that there are readily identifiable and undeniable consequences for unprotected sex for women doesn't make the choice any worse for them than it does for the man involved. The moral and ethical responsibility should lie with both, but because she's the one with the tummy bump having to decide whether she wants to keep a child or make the hardest decision you can make, she's a slut and the guy skates with a covert nod of approval for "getting his".

[achiro]

I realize that Andrew Sorkin is kind of a political hack, but in the Newsroom finale, the main character does a monologue where he compares the Tea Party to the Taliban.

The point isn't that the Tea Party beheads people it disagrees with, but rather there are quite a few similarities between the Tea Party and the Taliban, and by extension most hard-right groups such as:

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.

Except that the tea party doesn't have an official stance on social issues.

[diverdog]

I love how not wanting to pay for abortions and f*ck pills, is "controlling women's bodies." Kill all the liberal babies you want; just don't ask me to subsidize you being a careless whore. That seems fair.

Also, pretty much the tea party's biggest offense, or what liberals despise the most, was the fact that they were effective. In 2010, that was a legendary *ss kicking, unprecedented for 70 years. Conversely, the occupy dregs had minimal effect on anything substantive short of entertainment value with the riots, rapes (forcible), and literally sh*tting on each other.

Here is the problem. The tea baggers do not want to pay for ****. A lot of them are getting SS or Federal/State pensions. The debt has been run up on their watch and they want to pass it off to the youth who are in the occupy movement. I am amazed at how the tea party thinks they have any moral high ground. They are asking our kids to fight and die in these wars and they do not want to pay for it. Two of the biggest drivers of the deficit are the Bush tax cuts and the wars. iMHO the older folks in the tea party are the most selfish people in America. They got theirs and they want everyone else to pay for it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I realize that Andrew Sorkin is kind of a political hack, but in the Newsroom finale, the main character does a monologue where he compares the Tea Party to the Taliban.

The point isn't that the Tea Party beheads people it disagrees with, but rather there are quite a few similarities between the Tea Party and the Taliban, and by extension most hard-right groups such as:

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.That's a beaut. You're at the top of your game! Do you miss Osama?

[REDREX]

Here is the problem. The tea baggers do not want to pay for ****. A lot of them are getting SS or Federal/State pensions. The debt has been run up on their watch and they want to pass it off to the youth who are in the occupy movement. I am amazed at how the tea party thinks they have any moral high ground. They are asking our kids to fight and die in these wars and they do not want to pay for it. Two of the biggest drivers of the deficit are the Bush tax cuts and the wars. iMHO the older folks in the tea party are the most selfish people in America. They got theirs and they want everyone else to pay for it.---The biggest driver of the debt is the unfunded Medicare liability and stupid federal spending---How are you going to tax your way out of $80 trillion in unfunded future liabilities?---It is a simple question you cannot answer

[diverdog]

---The biggest driver of the debt is the unfunded Medicare liability and stupid federal spending---How are you going to tax your way out of $80 trillion in unfunded future liabilities?---It is a simple question you cannot answer.


Sure I can. Its the same way we pay for a $700 billion dollar a year military budget when it cost us far far less to fight WWII. That $80 trillion dollars is future deflated dollars and we will be paying a good chunk of those bills. Yeah we need cuts but we also need tax increases.

[REDREX]

.


Sure I can. Its the same way we pay for a $700 billion dollar a year military budget when it cost us far far less to fight WWII. That $80 trillion dollars is future deflated dollars and we will be paying a good chunk of those bills. Yeah we need cuts but we also need tax increases.---Like I said you have no real idea how to pay the future liabilities----Just kick the can down the road

[diverdog]

---Like I said you have no real idea how to pay the future liabilities----Just kick the can down the road

Ah no. I have advocated on here many times freezing the budget at its current level for ten years. That will fix a lot of issues.

[REDREX]

I realize that Andrew Sorkin is kind of a political hack, but in the Newsroom finale, the main character does a monologue where he compares the Tea Party to the Taliban.

The point isn't that the Tea Party beheads people it disagrees with, but rather there are quite a few similarities between the Tea Party and the Taliban, and by extension most hard-right groups such as:

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.---Didn't you also start the idiotic "Christian Taliban" thread a few months back ?

[cleller]

A bunch of middle aged Americans with two car garages, tupperware and kids in little league sure does sound like the Taliban alright.

Good grief.

[REDREX]

Ah no. I have advocated on here many times freezing the budget at its current level for ten years. That will fix a lot of issues.
That would not come close to solving the problem

[Midtowner]

Here is the problem. The tea baggers do not want to pay for ****. A lot of them are getting SS or Federal/State pensions. The debt has been run up on their watch and they want to pass it off to the youth who are in the occupy movement. I am amazed at how the tea party thinks they have any moral high ground. They are asking our kids to fight and die in these wars and they do not want to pay for it. Two of the biggest drivers of the deficit are the Bush tax cuts and the wars. iMHO the older folks in the tea party are the most selfish people in America. They got theirs and they want everyone else to pay for it.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/001.jpg

[Midtowner]

Except that the tea party doesn't have an official stance on social issues.

You said that with a straight face? Congrats!

The Tea Party can't have an "official stance" because they don't have an official stance on anything at all... just some nebulous talking points.

So you'd say that the Tea Party is in favor of a woman's right to choose and access to birth control like any other medication?

[SCOUT]

You said that with a straight face? Congrats!

The Tea Party can't have an "official stance" because they don't have an official stance on anything at all... just some nebulous talking points.

So you'd say that the Tea Party is in favor of a woman's right to choose and access to birth control like any other medication?

It's impressive that Sorkin was able to draw so many clear parallels to a group with "just some nebulous talking points."

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

---Didn't you(Midtowner) also start the idiotic "Christian Taliban" thread a few months back ?He's a beaut, that boy. As outrageous as any of them ever have been, it seems.

[XingTheRubicon]

Here is the problem. The tea baggers do not want to pay for ****. A lot of them are getting SS or Federal/State pensions. The debt has been run up on their watch and they want to pass it off to the youth who are in the occupy movement. I am amazed at how the tea party thinks they have any moral high ground. They are asking our kids to fight and die in these wars and they do not want to pay for it. The tea party is dead wrong on defense spending. Just flat dead wrong. If they want smaller gov't, defense spending has to be a top target.

Two of the biggest drivers of the deficit are the Bush tax cuts and the wars. False and False.

iMHO the older folks in the tea party are the most selfish people in America. They got theirs and they want everyone else to pay for it. Maybe the saddest thing I've read on here in a while. The "older folks" have already paid into those programs, especially tea party seniors, because...you know, they had...well, you know...jobs. BTW, those worthless bastards in the occupy movement stand to gain from this as well...from inheiritance from seniors that didn't spend their life savings on end of life health care.

If the tea party could soften on defense spending and never mention anything fag related, they'd get where they want to be quite a bit quicker.

Watching liberals run their Priuii into telephone poles over angst from the effectiveness of the tea party is quite amusing.

[Midtowner]

If the tea party could soften on defense spending and never mention anything fag related, they'd get where they want to be quite a bit quicker.

Watching liberals run their Priuii into telephone poles over angst from the effectiveness of the tea party is quite amusing.

Effectiveness?

Sharron Angle, Joe Miller, Christine O'Donnell, Carl Paladino, Ken Buck, Sarah Palin--all candidates who due to their extremism and lack of appeal to the center lost very winnable races.

[REDREX]

He's a beaut, that boy. As outrageous as any of them ever have been, it seems.---He does not seem to want to answer the question----This thread should go the same way as his last thread

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Effectiveness?

Sharron Angle, Joe Miller, Christine O'Donnell, Carl Paladino, Ken Buck, Sarah Palin--all candidates who due to their extremism and lack of appeal to the center lost very winnable races.We ALL , DEEPDOWN, EVEN YOU, know the dem and their MSM have thrown everything at them. Yes, all but that kitchen sink. A total combined effort was mustered to destroy those people, some or all of whom who could and would most contribute to repairing this country. It is your loss as well as the country's, but it's likely you don't, and won't, see that.

[rock on sooner]

We ALL , DEEPDOWN, EVEN YOU, know the dem and their MSM have thrown everything at them. Yes, all but that kitchen sink. A total combined effort was mustered to destroy those people, some or all of whom who could and would most contribute to repairing this country. It is your loss as well as the country's, but it's likely you don't, and won't, see that.

RLIMC, I don't know all of those listed but I am familiar with Angle, O'Donnell and Palin.
You mention MSM, well, gotta say that those three brought all their misery on themselves..
O'Donnell and her witchcraft, Palin, with her abject incompetence in everything she said and
Angle with her kinda loopy approach to things, such as "Not my job as a U.S. senator to
help bring jobs to Nevada." If those other three are anything like those then it's no
wonder they got ripped!

[diverdog]

If the tea party could soften on defense spending and never mention anything fag related, they'd get where they want to be quite a bit quicker.

Watching liberals run their Priuii into telephone poles over angst from the effectiveness of the tea party is quite amusing.


Please explain to me what part of the debt was created by anyone under 30 years of age?

The $15 trillion dollar debt has been run up in the last 35 years because the current recipients want their cake and eat it too (gold standard entitlements and low taxes). The current debt should be balanced on the backs of everyone over 35.

[XingTheRubicon]

Effectiveness?

Sharron Angle, Joe Miller, Christine O'Donnell, Carl Paladino, Ken Buck, Sarah Palin--all candidates who due to their extremism and lack of appeal to the center lost very winnable races.

Do you really want me to list out the tea party backed winners?


FYI, the tea party started months after Sarah Palin and John McCain lost the general in Nov '08. Nice try though.

[XingTheRubicon]

Please explain to me what part of the debt was created by anyone under 30 years of age?

The $15 trillion dollar debt has been run up in the last 35 years because the current recipients want their cake and eat it too (gold standard entitlements and low taxes). The current debt should be balanced on the backs of everyone over 35.

How 'bout everyone pay income tax? Might try that.

As far as twenty-somethings getting screwed...have them read the book "Unbroken" then they can have a nice warm glass of shut the f*ck up.

[achiro]

You said that with a straight face? Congrats!

The Tea Party can't have an "official stance" because they don't have an official stance on anything at all... just some nebulous talking points.

You do understand that you just proved my point?


So you'd say that the Tea Party is in favor of a woman's right to choose and access to birth control like any other medication?
No I wouldn't say that. Like both of us have already said, the tea party doesn't have a stance on social issues.

[FaninAma]

I realize that Andrew Sorkin is kind of a political hack, but in the Newsroom finale, the main character does a monologue where he compares the Tea Party to the Taliban.

The point isn't that the Tea Party beheads people it disagrees with, but rather there are quite a few similarities between the Tea Party and the Taliban, and by extension most hard-right groups such as:

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.

If you really believe this you are an uniformed idiot and not deserving of a serious response.

[XingTheRubicon]

He really believes it, unfortunately.


On a side note, I'd like to point out a pretty satisfying Newsroom fail.


One of the episodes referenced the movie "Rudy" -the Notre Dame walk-on movie. Anyway, the Sorkin and his idiot minions focused on one particular part of the movie. The scene where all the other Notre Dame starters laid their jerseys on Coach Devine's desk to protest Rudy not getting a suit for the final home game. They even had a reprise of the scene when all of the staff in the Newsroom lined up and one by one left a donation on the lead anchor's desk...(JUST LIKE THE RUDY SCENE) omg it was sooooo cool how they tied those two scenes together.

Just one problem:

It never f*cking happened. Rudy Ruettiger, himself admitted the jersey on the coach's desk scene never happened. For a show that pretend-prides themselves on getting the facts that everyone else is too stupid to understand...they sure looked like sophomoric jackasses with that episode.

[rock on sooner]

Do you really want me to list out the tea party backed winners?


FYI, the tea party started months after Sarah Palin and John McCain lost the general in Nov '08. Nice try though.

True about the 08 general, 'cept Palin continued out front and really
got that way when the Tea Partiers did come on the scene....

[FaninAma]

BTW, abortion will not be decided on the basis of religion. It will be the demographic holocaust it is contributing to that will convince any sane person that unrestricted abortion is a bad idea.

[XingTheRubicon]

True about the 08 general, 'cept Palin continued out front and really
got that way when the Tea Partiers did come on the scene....

and then what happened in 2010? Like I said, it's pretty funny watching liberals faces turn purple over how unbelievably effective the tea party has become. Agree with them or not, the results are what they are.

[Midtowner]

He really believes it, unfortunately.


On a side note, I'd like to point out a pretty satisfying Newsroom fail.


One of the episodes referenced the movie "Rudy" -the Notre Dame walk-on movie. Anyway, the Sorkin and his idiot minions focused on one particular part of the movie. The scene where all the other Notre Dame starters laid their jerseys on Coach Devine's desk to protest Rudy not getting a suit for the final home game. They even had a reprise of the scene when all of the staff in the Newsroom lined up and one by one left a donation on the lead anchor's desk...(JUST LIKE THE RUDY SCENE) omg it was sooooo cool how they tied those two scenes together.

Just one problem:

It never f*cking happened. Rudy Ruettiger, himself admitted the jersey on the coach's desk scene never happened. For a show that pretend-prides themselves on getting the facts that everyone else is too stupid to understand...they sure looked like sophomoric jackasses with that episode.

OH WOW THAT INVALIDATES EVERYTHING.

[Midtowner]

You do understand that you just proved my point?

Name one Tea Party backed candidate who is pro-choice who is willing to take that stance to the convention to fight the party's platform.

Name one who believes contraceptive drugs should be treated like any other who is willing to take that stance to the convention to fight the party's platform.

Just one. Then you'll have made your point.

[XingTheRubicon]

OH WOW THAT INVALIDATES EVERYTHING.

It's just humorous to me that they picked the one scene that wasn't factual and based a major part of the episode on it.

You've already shown yourself to be magnificently ignorant on this topic, so I'll just leave things right there.

[Midtowner]

It's just humorous to me that they picked the one scene that wasn't factual and based a major part of the episode on it.

You've already shown yourself to be magnificently ignorant on this topic, so I'll just leave things right there.

On the subject of a movie loosely based on reality? Oookay.

--I'll bet "I am Spartacus!" didn't happen either.

[XingTheRubicon]

On the subject of a movie loosely based on reality? Oookay.

--I'll bet "I am Spartacus!" didn't happen either.

No, cletus, the movie is actually pretty factual (other than the moron favorite Newsroom scene) Rudy really did apply 4 times to Notre Dame and get rejected every time til his last chance...and he really did live in the athletic dept for a few months, and he really did sack the Ga Tech QB in the final seconds of the final home game. Just your hero's moron scene. Still funny.

[diverdog]

How 'bout everyone pay income tax? Might try that.

As far as twenty-somethings getting screwed...have them read the book "Unbroken" then they can have a nice warm glass of shut the f*ck up.

Statistically half of the tea party does not pay income taxes as well.

Maybe you should read it and learn about sacrifice and how our nation pulled together to fight two wars. What have we done? Sent our young to fight and die in these wars and then we hand them the bill. It is immoral. At the very minimum our taxes should have been raised to cover the wars and the aftermath. No one in this country wants to sacrifice and that is a shame.

[diverdog]

and then what happened in 2010? Like I said, it's pretty funny watching liberals faces turn purple over how unbelievably effective the tea party has become. Agree with them or not, the results are what they are.

The tea party is fading and they have lost clout. No one wants to deal with them and the various faction cannot agree on sh*t other than hating Obama. The fact that Mitt is the chosen one proves my point.

[diverdog]

That would not come close to solving the problem

With some inflation it would do a lot.

Of course we can always take the dollar to zero and start a new currency. Happens all the time.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Do you really want me to list out the tea party backed winners?


FYI, the tea party started months after Sarah Palin and John McCain lost the general in Nov '08. Nice try though.The dem have pretty well destroyed Palin politically though, as well as the others mentioned. Our little Leftist message board members can claim Angle, Palin and ODonnell as incompetent all they want here, but we know it's their conservatism that got the Media so roiled and after them. (you can fell their love, can't you?)

[diverdog]

The dem have pretty well destroyed Palin politically though, as well as the others mentioned. Our little Leftist message board members can claim Angle, Palin and ODonnell as incompetent all they want here, but we know it's their conservatism that got the Media so roiled and after them. (you can fell their love, can't you?)

ODonnell killed herself here in Delaware. Her biggest problem is that she ran a nasty campaign and in Delaware that dog won't hunt. She also had money issues.

[REDREX]

With some inflation it would do a lot.

Of course we can always take the dollar to zero and start a new currency. Happens all the time.--- So we have to destroy the Country to fix it----Hell of a solution-----So you really have no plan on how to pay off the debt and cover the unfunded liabilities

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

--- So we have to destroy the Country to fix it----Hell of a solution-----So you really have no plan on how to pay off the debt and cover the unfunded liabilitiesThat one ain't on iggy?

[rock on sooner]

The dem have pretty well destroyed Palin politically though, as well as the others mentioned. Our little Leftist message board members can claim Angle, Palin and ODonnell as incompetent all they want here, but we know it's their conservatism that got the Media so roiled and after them. (you can fell their love, can't you?)








Iz that yer best? Hell, they did it to themselves. Yew want to argue otherise? My
Gawd, Man............C'mon, have you even read what they've said???

[diverdog]

--- So we have to destroy the Country to fix it----Hell of a solution-----So you really have no plan on how to pay off the debt and cover the unfunded liabilities

Red:

Again, the liabilities are being paid in future dollars. And whether you like it or not medical care cost are going through the roof and we will have to pay for them or let people die on the street. The simple fact is that in America we can stand to be taxed a lot more and that will go along way to solving this problem. As Phil state raising the age on SS to 68 and increasing the income exposed to the tax to $150 k fixes SS for a long time. Medicare/Medicaid is a tougher animal to crack and it will probably boil down to higher deductibles, rationed care, lower payments to doctors, more efficient bargaining for drugs, increasing the age limit and raising taxes.

We have to cut defense by 50% at some point. The US cannot afford this military and it needs to be restructured starting with ending the wars and then working on pay/benefits.

There is a lot we can do but we will never pay the debt off and I think as long as we have deficit spending at about half of what it is now we can sustain it for a very long time. Hell some businesses are leveraged 20 times their earnings.

As sad as it is to say the other thing will happen is a lot of us will die off in the next 40 years and that will go a long way to solving the Medicare/SS problem.

I am sorry but your political wish of getting rid of all entitlements ain't gonna happen. Other things will be cut before that happens.

BTW every single currency in the history of the world has gone to zero. The world did not fall apart. Eventually our currency will go to zero.

[diverdog]

Iz that yer best? Hell, they did it to themselves. Yew want to argue otherise? My
Gawd, Man............C'mon, have you even read what they've said???

Don't waste your breath. Limbaugh is completely brained washed. He still denies Reagan raised taxes 18 times. It does not fit his narrative.

[Midtowner]

Tea Party : Republican Party :: Westboro Baptist : Christianity

[SCOUT]

Tea Party : Republican Party :: Westboro Baptist : Christianity

I am again amazed at your ability to draw clear comparisons between a group with specific view points and one with "nebulous" ones. I didn't realize that law school taught the ability to intuit something specific from something vague.

[REDREX]

Tea Party : Republican Party :: Westboro Baptist : Christianity---Does this merge this thread with your idiotic "Christian Taliban" thread that you posted a few months ago?---- Just checking

[cleller]

So the Republicans are like the Taliban, while our prisons are full of Democrats. Great choices.

Heck, in W. Virginia a convict in prison received 42% or the vote in the Dem primary. There's something to brag on.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/prison-inmate-wins-more-than-40-of-democratic-vote-over-president-obama-in-wv-primary/

[KABOOKIE]

Tea Party : Republican Party :: Westboro Baptist : Christianity

Occupy : Democratic Party :: Code Pink : Atheism

[AlboSooner]

Occupy : Democratic Party :: Code Pink : Atheism

Occupy : Democratic Party :: Code Pink : Atheism :: Eugenics :: NAZI :: Hitler

[FaninAma]

If Obama gets re-elected the next 4 years will be enjoyable from one aspect......watching left-wing hacks like midtowner trying to spin the reason the economy follows Europe down the sewer.

Midtowner, can you name one thing that Obama has done that you don't agree with?

Diverdog, if you are going to throw out statistics about the Tea Party then please provide a link. And even if your numbers are true does that mean we can disregard the opinion of everybody who does not pay federal income tax? That's a deal I'll take in a heartbeat.

[Midtowner]

Midtowner, can you name one thing that Obama has done that you don't agree with?

Killing American citizens abroad without any process for starters. I'm supporting Obama and Democrats right now because I want to see the American Taliban ended. Seeing Romney go down in flames will be a start.

[cleller]

Killing American citizens abroad without any process for starters.

Predictably, I have no problem with this at all. Other than that, I'd give him some credit for not running around with Jesse, Al, and Company all the time. That's not so surprising, either, as anyone can see those guys are idiots.

[FaninAma]

Diverdog, those types of taxing schemes haven't fixed Europe. Why do you think they will work here?

I get so tored of the left claiming the only problems with socialism is that we haven't taxed people enough or we haven't raised taxes high enough.

The example of the great social experiment is on display in most of Europe but theleft refuses to see it or believe. Incredible.

[FaninAma]

Killing American citizens abroad without any process for starters. I'm supporting Obama and Democrats right now because I want to see the American Taliban ended. Seeing Romney go down in flames will be a start.

Do you not see how throwing inflammatory statmements out like that hurt any interest I may have in your opinion? It's just a silly statment and as such I have to believe it is made by a silly person.

[okie52]

Enviro Nazis: Jill Stein :: Waxman/Markey: Democratic Party

[KABOOKIE]

Stupid people : near do wells :: democrats : malcontents : lawyers

Hey these are fun!

[LiveLaughLove]

Diverdog, those types of taxing schemes haven't fixed Europe. Why do you think they will work here?

I get so tored of the left claiming the only problems with socialism is that we haven't taxed people enough or we haven't raised taxes high enough.

The example of the great social experiment is on display in most of Europe but theleft refuses to see it or believe. Incredible.

Don't bring up Europe. Every liberals wet dream is that America be more European in every way possible.

Why, Gwenyth Paltrow tells us all of the time how puritanical and uneducated we are here in the USA, and how open and well refined England is. Johnny Depp the same but insert France for England.

Please don't talk about Europe's colossal failures. It makes the liberals tummy's hurt.

(Of course, it's probably our fault for not helping them or becoming like them quickly enough, so that we dragged them down too)

[LiveLaughLove]

As for this Tea Party equaling the Taliban stuff, well, it's stuff for sure.

I just wouldn't want to step in it.

[cleller]

Don't bring up Europe. Every liberals wet dream is that America be more European in every way possible.

Why, Gwenyth Paltrow tells us all of the time how puritanical and uneducated we are here in the USA, and how open and well refined England is. Johnny Depp the same but insert France for England.

Please don't talk about Europe's colossal failures. It makes the liberals tummy's hurt.

(Of course, it's probably our fault for not helping them or becoming like them quickly enough, so that we dragged them down too)

Global financier Jim Rogers summed it up pretty well. He said in 1800 a smart man would move to London, in 1900, NYC. Rogers has now moved to Singapore, and thinks Europe and USA will fall behind.

[Midtowner]

Occupy : Democratic Party :: Code Pink : Atheism :: Eugenics :: NAZI :: Hitler

I'm not sure you understand how these work...

[FaninAma]

Global financier Jim Rogers summed it up pretty well. He said in 1800 a smart man would move to London, in 1900, NYC. Rogers has now moved to Singapore, and thinks Europe and USA will fall behind.

He is right. Asia will be the next region of economic and political dominance in the world for a variety of reasons.....not least of which is their ability to identify destructive social problems in their countries and effect true change instead of trying to throw money at the problems.

[SoonerProphet]

He is right. Asia will be the next region of economic and political dominance in the world for a variety of reasons.....not least of which is their ability to identify destructive social problems in their countries and effect true change instead of trying to throw money at the problems.

let's see how tension in the south china sea plays out before we go crowning a new hegemon.

[FaninAma]

let's see how tension in the south china sea plays out before we go crowning a new hegemon.

It will play out the same way the British's attempts to remain influential in Asia did in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The United States will ultimately reign in it's attempts to maintain a world-wide sphere of influence simply because it is not economically feasible to maintain their current
level of involvement. And I certainly don't think Japan has the will or the economic clout to fill the void. So that leaves China.

[StoopTroup]

Hitler was a Nazi?

I thought he just invented them?

[FaninAma]

Don't bring up Europe. Every liberals wet dream is that America be more European in every way possible.

Why, Gwenyth Paltrow tells us all of the time how puritanical and uneducated we are here in the USA, and how open and well refined England is. Johnny Depp the same but insert France for England.

Please don't talk about Europe's colossal failures. It makes the liberals tummy's hurt.

(Of course, it's probably our fault for not helping them or becoming like them quickly enough, so that we dragged them down too)

That's why it will be so interesting to watch as Europe falls further and further into economic chaos. I want to see how the progressives grapple with the fact that their system is going down in flames. I want to see them backpeddle and try to separate the cultural values from the economic values of European societies.

The day of reckoning rapidly approaches. We will see if all of the progressives will still try to make their decisons based on raw emotion.

[SoonerProphet]

It will play out the same way the British's attempts to remain influential in Asia did in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The United States will ultimately reign in it's attempts to maintain a world-wide sphere of influence simply because it is not economically feasible to maintain their current
level of involvement. And I certainly don't think Japan has the will or the economic clout to fill the void. So that leaves China.

nah, aint talkin bout our role. talkin about some of you peeps claiming that asia is the next arena for economic dominance. we will see.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/collision-course-the-south-china-sea-7380

[Midtowner]

Can some of you Taliban types tell me whether you believe in young-Earth creationism?

[diverdog]

Diverdog, those types of taxing schemes haven't fixed Europe. Why do you think they will work here?

I get so tored of the left claiming the only problems with socialism is that we haven't taxed people enough or we haven't raised taxes high enough.

The example of the great social experiment is on display in most of Europe but theleft refuses to see it or believe. Incredible.

We are no where close to the rates in europe. Americans think they pay a lot in taxes and the don't. That is a fact. Our tax levels are the lowest since 1950.

[LiveLaughLove]

We are no where close to the rates in europe. Americans think they pay a lot in taxes and the don't. That is a fact. Our tax levels are the lowest since 1950.

So and what. Europeans are taxed plenty and look where it has gotten them.

If we are taxed one red cent so that dems can buy votes by creating a permanent underclass, that is being over taxed.

[LiveLaughLove]

Can some of you Taliban types tell me whether you believe in young-Earth creationism?

I assume by Taliban types you mean God fearing folks from fly over country that are the backbone of this country.

No, I don't believe in young Earth theory.

Do you condescending pretentious know it alls believe everything was created by nothing from nothing for nothing?

[Midtowner]

Do you condescending pretentious know it alls believe everything was created by nothing from nothing for nothing?

Emerging schools of thought in quantum physics are beginning to explain that there is no such thing as nothing and it's actually quite possible for something to come from nothing. Aquinas' 2nd proof is crumbling.

--science denying, cannot tolerate dissent.

[diverdog]

So and what. Europeans are taxed plenty and look where it has gotten them.

If we are taxed one red cent so that dems can buy votes by creating a permanent underclass, that is being over taxed.

Bull ****. The Republicans spend tons of money. In fact the bulk of the debt happened on their watch.

[MamaMia]

The government didn't have to pay people to educate me about sex. My mom did. Its not that hard to understand. The government didn't have to pay for my birth control. I did. Not even the members of the catholic church is against birth control anymore. As far as SS is concerned. People pay in to that for a reason, so they should get it back as promised, if they live long enough to do so.

Comparing the Taliban to the Tea Party people is incredibly asinine.

[Midtowner]

What aspects about this are wrong with regard to Tea Party members?

Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government.

[okie52]

****, I could say most of those things about the dems.

[LiveLaughLove]

Emerging schools of thought in quantum physics are beginning to explain that there is no such thing as nothing and it's actually quite possible for something to come from nothing. Aquinas' 2nd proof is crumbling.

--science denying, cannot tolerate dissent.

Yes, I've read that nothing never existed. Now who is not regarding science and trying to just fit in their own world view to match what they want to find?

Particles ALWAYS existed? Bunk. Something had to have created that nothing that is something. Do you hear yourself? You want us to believe that something ALWAYS existed, it was just called nothing, but it was actually something all along, except that we just thought it was nothing..that was really something.

The Higgs Boson is just another particle that science had been theorizing was there since the 1960's. It's still a particle, it still had to be created at some point in time. It hasn't just ALWAYS existed. Now who's believing fairy tales?

The question still remains, how did it get there?

Oh and I know the scientist (cant think of his name) that wrote the book about this and he admits he has to change the definition of "nothing" for it to fit his theory. He is very anti-God and he was ran through the ringer by, of all people, Steven Colbert. He was made to look the fool by Colbert.

[LiveLaughLove]

Bull ****. The Republicans spend tons of money. In fact the bulk of the debt happened on their watch.

Where in there smart guy did I say anything about republicans not spending money? I disagree with your premise to some extent, but I am not a defender of classical republicanism.

Remember, I'm one of those Tea Party Talibanners.

[LiveLaughLove]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/415707/june-21-2012/lawrence-krauss

Here's this brilliant man being eviscerated by an actor.

Notice he starts in his second sentence attacking the belief in God, and does it through out the segment. Colbert's last statement at the end is pretty witty.

So we just change the definitions and , voila, nothing is something. Except when it's really nothing, because then its really something. Except...

[diverdog]

Where in there smart guy did I say anything about republicans not spending money? I disagree with your premise to some extent, but I am not a defender of classical republicanism.

Remember, I'm one of those Tea Party Talibanners.

So where was the tea party when Bush bailed out the banks or signed into law the prescription drug law?

[FaninAma]

We are no where close to the rates in europe. Americans think they pay a lot in taxes and the don't. That is a fact. Our tax levels are the lowest since 1950.

European businesses pay lower corporate taxes than American businesses....much lower.

European individual tax rates include the portion they pay toward medical care and social security. The highest tax rates in Europe are around 45 to 50%. If you add in
social security and medicare the higest tax bracket in this
country is 43%. So yes, i guess the Europeans have slightly higher individual rates but significantly lower business tax rates.

The point of my post was that even with higher tax rates
the great European socialist experiment is failing yet the left feels that they somehow know some secret way to make it successful in this country. Actually, it's not so secret....it's the same "tax the rich" strategy we've heard them repeat since the 60's.

[diverdog]

European businesses pay lower corporate taxes than American businesses....much lower.

European individual tax rates include the portion they pay toward medical care and social security. The highest tax rates in Europe are around 45 to 50%. If you add in social security anf medicare the higest tax bracket in this
country is 43%. So yes, i guess the Europeans have slightly higher individual rates but lower business tax rates although Obamacare will push that rate even higher.

The point of my post was that even with higher tax rates the graet socialist experiment Is failing yet the left feels that They somehow know some secret way to make it successful in this country. Actually, it's not so secret....it's the same "tax the reach" strategy we've heard them repeat since the 60's.

You are talking statutory rates vs effective rates. Damn few if anyone in this country pays 40% in taxes. Hell I will go out on a limb and say no one does.

Our social systems are no where close to Europe. Plus during the times we had the highest tax rates under Ike this country did just fine. Both Clinton and Reagan taxed their way to prosperity.

Again it is a myth Americans pay to much in taxes.

[AlboSooner]

I'm not sure you understand how these work...


It is important not to be thought of only as an instigator, or else you end up with the credibility of a stooptroup (whose posts I can't see anyway).

It may be shocking news to you, but evolution, eugenics, and the nazi regime go pretty well together (if we have regard for history, which in America we don't).

[FaninAma]

Diverdog, are you saying none of the European countries allow any personal tax deductions?

But more to the point. Most countries in Europe are going down the freaking toilet. Why do you keep using them as a model for what we should do in this country?

When I was a kid and let a friend talk me into doing something stupid my Mom would ask me " if your friend told you to jump off a cliff would you do it."

We see that Europe is falling off a cliff. Why do you want us to follow them over it?

[FaninAma]

And Reagan did not raise tax rates. He closed tax loopholes and lowered marginal tax rates. In return the democrats in Congress reneged on the budget cuts they had promised.

Clinton's tax rate increases would not have balanced the budget if there hadn't been a Republican controlled Congress to control spending.

[diverdog]

Diverdog, are you saying none of the European countries allow any personal tax deductions?

But more to the point. Most countries in Europe are going down the freaking toilet. Why do you keep using them as a model for what we should do in this country?

When I was a kid and let a friend talk me into doing something stupid my Mom would ask me " if your friend told you to jump off a cliff would you do it."

We see that Europe is falling off a cliff. Why do you want us to follow them over it?

I am not using them as a model. You are the one that keeps bringing them up. Unlike Europe a lot of our debt is due to things other than entitlements like wars, bailing out banks, supporting a massive military and cutting taxes so much that we are forced to borrow.

Some of these European countries are partiallyin the toilet because of action that took place in the US (buying our mortgages) and the conduct of Goldman Sachs ( see Greece and cross currency swaps). The other issue is that they have a common currency and no centralized bank. That is not to say they do not have entitlement problems. In Greece hardly anyone pays taxes, you get lots of paid time off and you can retire at 55 with a huge pension and medical care. Greece is corrupt, has a massive government, very little manufacturing and is largely devoid of resources like oil. Ireland and Spain are facing a commercial real estate crises/bubble, high trade deficits, and a bad labor market. ( as a side note Spain has a weird labor market ...priveledged vs unpriveledged labor). Spain and Ireland are facing a banking crises as a result of capitalism, cheap money and real estate speculation. Sound familiar?

I argue that we need to raise taxes because we have not paid for these wars. Instead of asking America to make sacrifices Bush cut taxes and put the wars on a credit card that will have to be paid for by the kids that fought that war. I support cuts to the government (mostly the military), raising taxes and growing our economy. All this should be done slowly with the exception of growing the economy.

[diverdog]

And Reagan did not raise tax rates. He closed tax loopholes and lowered marginal tax rates. In return the democrats in Congress reneged on the budget cuts they had promised.

Clinton's tax rate increases would not have balanced the budget if there hadn't been a Republican controlled Congress to control spending.

No Reagan raised taxes 18 times including almost doubling the SS tax rate and the income it was exposed to. This was the largest tax increase ever. On top of that Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush were able to use the SS surpluses to mask their true deficits. Obama has not had this advantage. Reagan taxed and spent his way out of a recession. All the gains in taxe receipts from his supposed supply side economics can be count for through inflation. At the end of his term the average American was paying more in taxes. All I would like to see is that we return to the tax rates under Reagan and raise the ceiling on the income SS is exposed to as well as raise the age to get SS.

The advantage Clinton had was that he was able to work with the Republicans because they had statesman like Simpson and Hatch. Now they have to deal with far right idealist who have no intention on making any deals.

[XingTheRubicon]

So where was the tea party when Bush bailed out the banks or signed into law the prescription drug law?

it didn't exist yet...

[SoonerAtKU]

And why not? Doesn't that seem like the kind of thing that would raise the ire of staunch small-government types?

[XingTheRubicon]

yes it does, and after all that bailout, tarp etc was done...the tea party started forming.

whether they gave bush his due blame or not, i don't know


I still think it's the American people's fault...and the tea party and politicians in general have to blame the other side because they can't tell the truth. The sad truth that the American citizenry is comprised of entitled jackasses. Sadly, about 40% of our citizens want to work hard and be rewarded on merit... and the rest are just a hodgepodge of angry, bitter, entitled children.

[diverdog]

yes it does, and after all that bailout, tarp etc was done...the tea party started forming.

whether they gave bush his due blame or not, i don't know


I still think it's the American people's fault...and the tea party and politicians in general have to blame the other side because they can't tell the truth. The sad truth that the American citizenry is comprised of entitled jackasses. Sadly, about 40% of our citizens want to work hard and be rewarded on merit... and the rest are just a hodgepodge of angry, bitter, entitled children.


None of this is supported by facts.

I live in a tiny state and our GDP per capita is almost 50% more than Oklahoma and this is a liberal state. So you tell me who is busting their ***.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP#section_1

[okie52]

None of this is supported by facts.

I live in a tiny state and our GDP per capita is almost 50% more than Oklahoma and this is a liberal state. So you tell me who is busting their ***.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP#section_1


Probably just a bunch of overpaid union commies.

[Midtowner]

Probably just a bunch of overpaid union commies.

I'm not sure whether you know what GDP is. This response indicates that you don't.

[diverdog]

Probably just a bunch of overpaid union commies.

Not really. Delaware is just a tough place to work. We consistently rank near dead last for employee satisfaction. Everyone works like dogs. I hate this place.

[okie52]

I'm not sure whether you know what GDP is. This response indicates that you don't.

Lighten up Francis. Just having a little fun with Diver. You feel better with GDI?

[okie52]

Not really. Delaware is just a tough place to work. We consistently rank near dead last for employee satisfaction. Everyone works like dogs. I hate this place.

I wonder how they factor in all of those corporations that are "residing" in Delaware in name only?

[XingTheRubicon]

None of this is supported by facts.

I live in a tiny state and our GDP per capita is almost 50% more than Oklahoma and this is a liberal state. So you tell me who is busting their ***.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP#section_1

Do you want to look up Libs vs Conservatives with regards to welfare and food stamps?


I'll wait here.

[diverdog]

I wonder how they factor in all of those corporations that are "residing" in Delaware in name only?

Oh this state is one predatory animal. We steal from everyone. I think I posted an article a few months ago about our business practices.

[TitoMorelli]

Oh this state is one predatory animal. We steal from everyone. I think I posted an article a few months ago about our business practices.

Interesting read at the link. Might be the same one you posted.


http://corp.delaware.gov/whycorporations_web.pdf

[FaninAma]

Bull ****. The Republicans spend tons of money. In fact the bulk of the debt happened on their watch.

Entitlement spending that goes towards programs started by FDR and LBJ have nothing to do with the debt as well as the expansion of those programs by Obama. Gotcha.

[diverdog]

Do you want to look up Libs vs Conservatives with regards to welfare and food stamps?


I'll wait here.

First of all there is no data on this since a large number of those receiving welfare are kids.

Secondly, i hate to break this to you but there are a lot of white folks on welfare.

Third, most red states are poor and recieve more in taxes than they pay out.

Fourth, i am sure none if this fits your world view since you think all liberals get government handouts.

[FaninAma]

I am not using them as a model. You are the one that keeps bringing them up. Unlike Europe a lot of our debt is due to things other than entitlements like wars, bailing out banks, supporting a massive military and cutting taxes so much that we are forced to borrow.

Some of these European countries are partiallyin the toilet because of action that took place in the US (buying our mortgages) and the conduct of Goldman Sachs ( see Greece and cross currency swaps). The other issue is that they have a common currency and no centralized bank. That is not to say they do not have entitlement problems. In Greece hardly anyone pays taxes, you get lots of paid time off and you can retire at 55 with a huge pension and medical care. Greece is corrupt, has a massive government, very little manufacturing and is largely devoid of resources like oil. Ireland and Spain are facing a commercial real estate crises/bubble, high trade deficits, and a bad labor market. ( as a side note Spain has a weird labor market ...priveledged vs unpriveledged labor). Spain and Ireland are facing a banking crises as a result of capitalism, cheap money and real estate speculation. Sound familiar?

I argue that we need to raise taxes because we have not paid for these wars. Instead of asking America to make sacrifices Bush cut taxes and put the wars on a credit card that will have to be paid for by the kids that fought that war. I support cuts to the government (mostly the military), raising taxes and growing our economy. All this should be done slowly with the exception of growing the economy.

No, Europe is in trouble because they have spent too much on social programs and they have a nightmarish demographic problem with aging populations and low birth rates.

I am quite willing to pay a bit more in taxes. I am willing to see military spending cut. Are you willing to see entitlement spending cut? If so, I think we are in agreement. If not then I will never agree to tax increases.

There is ample evidence that promised spending cuts have ever accompanies the tax hikes. Unless the democrats and progressives show me that they are serious about entitlement cuts then I will encourage the politicians I support to not institute any tax increases.

[FaninAma]

No Reagan raised taxes 18 times including almost doubling the SS tax rate and the income it was exposed to. This was the largest tax increase ever. On top of that Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush were able to use the SS surpluses to mask their true deficits. Obama has not had this advantage. Reagan taxed and spent his way out of a recession. All the gains in taxe receipts from his supposed supply side economics can be count for through inflation. At the end of his term the average American was paying more in taxes. All I would like to see is that we return to the tax rates under Reagan and raise the ceiling on the income SS is exposed to as well as raise the age to get SS.

The advantage Clinton had was that he was able to work with the Republicans because they had statesman like Simpson and Hatch. Now they have to deal with far right idealist who have no intention on making any deals.

No, Reagan did not raise those tax rates. A democraticaaly controlled Congress did. Reagan agreed to allow them to do it because they were supposed to cut spending but the democrats did not follow through on their end of the agreement so only the tax increases went through.

That is why we Taliban Tea Partiers do not trust the left and why we will not agree to tax increases without significant spending cuts.

And you do understand that the "TEA" part of the Tea Party name stands fot "Taxed Enough Already" don't you. Any claims that we are social issue zealots are just bull****.

[diverdog]

No, Reagan did not raise those tax rates. A democraticaaly controlled Congress did. Reagan agreed to allow them to do it because they were supposed to cut spending but the democrats did not follow through on their end of the agreement so only the tax increases went through.

That is why we Taliban Tea Partiers do not trust the left and why we will not agree to tax increases without significant spending cuts.

And you do understand that the "TEA" part of the Tea Party name stands fot "Taxed Enough Already" don't you. Any claims that we are social issue zealots are just bull****.

I have called you guys tea baggers but not the Taliban. That is a low blow :)

I will answer your post tonight. I do appreciate the thoughtful replies.

[rock on sooner]

No, Reagan did not raise those tax rates. A democraticaaly controlled Congress did. Reagan agreed to allow them to do it because they were supposed to cut spending but the democrats did not follow through on their end of the agreement so only the tax increases went through.

That is why we Taliban Tea Partiers do not trust the left and why we will not agree to tax increases without significant spending cuts.

And you do understand that the "TEA" part of the Tea Party name stands fot "Taxed Enough Already" don't you. Any claims that we are social issue zealots are just bull****.

To your point about tax increases and spending cuts..Is that why every
Pub candidate during the primary season answered the question "Would
you support $1 in tax increase for $10 in spending cuts?" all said no? Or,
was it because 10 to 1 was too small?

[sappstuf]

To your point about tax increases and spending cuts..Is that why every
Pub candidate during the primary season answered the question "Would
you support $1 in tax increase for $10 in spending cuts?" all said no? Or,
was it because 10 to 1 was too small?

This is the same exact ruse the Dems have used before.. $1 in tax increases now.. $10 in spending cuts in years 8, 9 and 10. Of course the current congress cannot tell a future congress what to do and the cuts in the outlying years never happen.

Bravo to the Pubs for not falling for it.... Again.

[Midtowner]

Lighten up Francis. Just having a little fun with Diver. You feel better with GDI?

Would've made a lot more sense.

[SoonerAtKU]

I still think it's the American people's fault...and the tea party and politicians in general have to blame the other side because they can't tell the truth. The sad truth that the American citizenry is comprised of entitled jackasses. Sadly, about 40% of our citizens want to work hard and be rewarded on merit... and the rest are just a hodgepodge of angry, bitter, entitled children.

I couldn't agree more. We have the politicians we deserve, not the ones we need. America has turned into a place where a person would rather someone else be wrong than be right themselves. Where the discussion is about the failings of someone else as opposed to the successes of our own. We experienced an unprecedented growth and prosperity post-WWII and look what it's done to us. We're the trust fund kid who blew his inheritance before 24. Now we can't afford the maids to clean up after us or the cooks to make our food, nor do we have the skills or desire to do it ourselves.

We wanted it all. We bullied and leveraged and voted and spent to get it, and the bills are arriving. The people we trusted to save for our future and make wise plans were in it for themselves all along, and we didn't care. We got ours, so who cares if we get fleeced along the way. They aren't stealing today's money, they're stealing tomorrow's money, and almost all of it. The worst part is, if we were in their position, we would have done it, too.

[FaninAma]

To your point about tax increases and spending cuts..Is that why every
Pub candidate during the primary season answered the question "Would
you support $1 in tax increase for $10 in spending cuts?" all said no? Or,
was it because 10 to 1 was too small?

No, because the opposition has NEVER followed through on the promised budget cuts. I wouldn't go on record supporting tax increases either since it is just a ploy by the other side that would allow them to claim that GOP candidate "X" is for tax increases.

Show me that you are serious about cutting expenditures, then we will talk about raising taxes.

Otherwise it just turns into a Charlie Brown-Lucy scenario where the left(Lucy) is able to cajole the GOP(Charlie Brown) into trying to kick the football (increasing taxes in returns for promises of budget cuts)just one more time before yanking it away.

[FaninAma]

So where was the tea party when Bush bailed out the banks or signed into law the prescription drug law?

They hadn't been organized yet. You really don't know the facts of the debate...do you?

The Tea Party is VERY active in the GOP primaries helping to elect the candidate with the best economic/taxing policies. I am quite sure if they had been around they would have lambasted Bush for both those policies.

Now, does the democratic party have any groups performing a similiar function in their party, namely actually holding candidates accountable for their actions? Or does the democratic party just have a bunch of special interests that whip up potential voters based purely on emotional rhetoric?

I think your use of inflammatory, emotionally charged rhetoric throughout this thread would tend to lead us to the correct conclusion.

[rock on sooner]

No, because the opposition has NEVER followed through on the promised budget cuts. I wouldn't go on record supporting tax increases either since it is just a ploy by the other side that would allow them to claim that GOP candidate "X" is for tax increases.

Show me that you are serious about cutting expenditures, then we will talk about raising taxes.

Otherwise it just turns into a Charlie Brown-Lucy scenario where the left(Lucy) is able to cajole the GOP(Charlie Brown) into trying to kick the football (increasing taxes in returns for promises of budget cuts)just one more time before yanking it away.

I have put forth a long list of spending cuts with only minimal tax
increases on at least three different posts in other threads and,
many on here have agreed with them. (And don't pick on poor
Charlie Brown by tagging him with GOP:biggrin: or Lucy with the
left)

[FaninAma]

I have put forth a long list of spending cuts with only minimal tax
increases on at least three different posts in other threads and,
many on here have agreed with them. (And don't pick on poor
Charlie Brown by tagging him with GOP:biggrin: or Lucy with the
left)

Most average people tend to be like Charlie Brown meaning that we are all a little too trusting when we shouldn't be. I think most Lucys gravitate toward certain professions like politics and used car salesmen.

I think your proposals are very reasonable but tell me why anyone would look at the democrat's track record and think they would ever cut entitlement spending?

[LiveLaughLove]

So where was the tea party when Bush bailed out the banks or signed into law the prescription drug law?

Obviously, you have never been to a TEA Party rally. First, they/we didn't exist during the Bush years, but it was simmering.

Go to a TEA Party rally and you will see just as many signs excoriating Republicans as there are Democrats. If you think the Republicans like us, you just don't understand the movement (which you don't) at all.

And it isn't about social issues, though very many people claiming TEA Party membership do care about those.

It is about fiscal responsibility. Period.

[LiveLaughLove]

To your point about tax increases and spending cuts..Is that why every
Pub candidate during the primary season answered the question "Would
you support $1 in tax increase for $10 in spending cuts?" all said no? Or,
was it because 10 to 1 was too small?

It's because we have been fooled with that far too many times. The cuts will NEVER happen. You could a 1000 cuts to 1 tax. It means nothing.

It's the same as securing the border, but FIRST we are going to amnetize the illegals. The amnesty happens, the border security never does.

We want cuts, period. AFTER actually real cuts, then we will talk about taxes. But not during or before.

BTW, we are going to get some of it at least. We are heading for a landslide, not just in the Presidency, but in the Congress also.

When that happens Romney had better deliver, or his butt will be fired too.

[Skysooner]

It's because we have been fooled with that far too many times. The cuts will NEVER happen. You could a 1000 cuts to 1 tax. It means nothing.

It's the same as securing the border, but FIRST we are going to amnetize the illegals. The amnesty happens, the border security never does.

We want cuts, period. AFTER actually real cuts, then we will talk about taxes. But not during or before.

BTW, we are going to get some of it at least. We are heading for a landslide, not just in the Presidency, but in the Congress also.

When that happens Romney had better deliver, or his butt will be fired too.

Not sure you are reading the polls correctly. Unless something weird happens, Obama will be reelected. Congress is way too grassroots local. If Obama wins, Rs hold the House and will probably gain seats in the Senate. If Romney wins in a landslide (highly, highly doubtful at this point although he could win a close one) then your predictions would be right.

[LiveLaughLove]

Not sure you are reading the polls correctly. Unless something weird happens, Obama will be reelected. Congress is way too grassroots local. If Obama wins, Rs hold the House and will probably gain seats in the Senate. If Romney wins in a landslide (highly, highly doubtful at this point although he could win a close one) then your predictions would be right.

Nah, look at the biases in the polls. They are always dem over samples. They are assuming voter turn out for Obama like in '08. Not gonna happen.

Carville of Clinton fame and his compatriots, hardly Republicans, have Romney winning in a landslide presently. They didn't over sample dems.

They Romney ahead with independents by +15%. That's huge. The closer the election gets, the more the undecideds left will break for Romney not the incumbent.

Michael Moore, hardly a republican, just said get used to saying President Romney. The people are not enamored of Obama any longer.

Lastly, the internals for both sides tell the best story. Look where they are campaigning. Romney is going to places like Michigan and Wisconsin, because they are now in play. Obama has been having to shore up his base in safe states. They both know the truth.

In the latest PPP, hardly a republican pollster, even that idiot Akin is only trailing McCaskell by 1 point again after having dropped down by 10 points. If voter turnout is light in MO, even he will win.

[Skysooner]

Nah, look at the biases in the polls. They are always dem over samples. They are assuming voter turn out for Obama like in '08. Not gonna happen.

Carville of Clinton fame and his compatriots, hardly Republicans, have Romney winning in a landslide presently. They didn't over sample dems.

They Romney ahead with independents by +15%. That's huge. The closer the election gets, the more the undecideds left will break for Romney not the incumbent.

Michael Moore, hardly a republican, just said get used to saying President Romney. The people are not enamored of Obama any longer.

Lastly, the internals for both sides tell the best story. Look where they are campaigning. Romney is going to places like Michigan and Wisconsin, because they are now in play. Obama has been having to shore up his base in safe states. They both know the truth.

In the latest PPP, hardly a republican pollster, even that idiot Akin is only trailing McCaskell by 1 point again after having dropped down by 10 points. If voter turnout is light in MO, even he will win.

That Carville poll is only being reported by right wing sources. Carville's own website doesn't have it. Moore's comment related to the money gap. All polls I'm seeing says that Obama is ahead, and Romney has to win pretty much every state in contention to even make this close. It could happen but don't always believe the biased sources.

[LiveLaughLove]

That Carville poll is only being reported by right wing sources. Carville's own website doesn't have it. Moore's comment related to the money gap. All polls I'm seeing says that Obama is ahead, and Romney has to win pretty much every state in contention to even make this close. It could happen but don't always believe the biased sources.

Let' just bookmark this and see in November where we're at, and see if I am wrong or not.

I have been very guarded about our chances for a very long time. I'm not any more. I know what I am seeing. I've been through these since Carter. The writing is on the wall.

Barring a complete implosion, Romney is going to be the next prez, and he is going to have the house for sure, and most likely the senate too (not as sure about it) as people ride his coattails.

[MamaMia]

You are talking statutory rates vs effective rates. Damn few if anyone in this country pays 40% in taxes. Hell I will go out on a limb and say no one does.

Our social systems are no where close to Europe. Plus during the times we had the highest tax rates under Ike this country did just fine. Both Clinton and Reagan taxed their way to prosperity.

Again it is a myth Americans pay to much in taxes. If by taxes you mean, what we pay to the I.R.S., the Oklahoma Tax Commission and the County, we most certainly do. ...and get this; we pay taxes on the money our small business earns and then when we pay ourselves a a salary to pay our personal bills with our own hard earned income, damn if we don't have to pay taxes on that too.

[diverdog]

Entitlement spending that goes towards programs started by FDR and LBJ have nothing to do with the debt as well as the expansion of those programs by Obama. Gotcha.

Here are the current drivers of the deficit according to the CBO:

http://www.blogforarizona.com/.a/6a00d8341bf80c53ef0168eb86e783970c-500wi


or


http://lswt.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/image_thumb.png?w=500&h=625


Do entitlements add to the debt? Sure they do but until recently it was not as much as the right claims. In fact, SS was so solvent that almost $200 billion dollars was swept into the general fund to mask the real deficits. Going forward it will be an issue if we do not responsibly address it soon.

The defense department cannot account for trillions in spending and it is part of the debt that is out of hand:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/budget-buster-pentagon-unable-account-trillions-glain-says-160838112.html

Until the Republicans audit defense and starts holding them accountable we will never balance the budget.

[diverdog]

No, Europe is in trouble because they have spent too much on social programs and they have a nightmarish demographic problem with aging populations and low birth rates.

I am quite willing to pay a bit more in taxes. I am willing to see military spending cut. Are you willing to see entitlement spending cut? If so, I think we are in agreement. If not then I will never agree to tax increases.

There is ample evidence that promised spending cuts have ever accompanies the tax hikes. Unless the democrats and progressives show me that they are serious about entitlement cuts then I will encourage the politicians I support to not institute any tax increases.

Which entitlements do you want cut?

You really need to do some research on the current economic collapse because entitlements are only part of the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_sovereign_debt_crisis

[SoonerProphet]

All that sabre rattling and tough talking pablum last night doesn't seem indicative that this ticket is serious about deficit reduction or budget restraint.

[diverdog]

No, Reagan did not raise those tax rates. A democraticaaly controlled Congress did. Reagan agreed to allow them to do it because they were supposed to cut spending but the democrats did not follow through on their end of the agreement so only the tax increases went through.

That is why we Taliban Tea Partiers do not trust the left and why we will not agree to tax increases without significant spending cuts.

And you do understand that the "TEA" part of the Tea Party name stands fot "Taxed Enough Already" don't you. Any claims that we are social issue zealots are just bull****.

Again you are more rhetoric than facts:


Reagan Calls For an End to Tax Increase Bickering (http://thegopleftme.com/post/18291789512/reagan-calls-for-an-end-to-tax-increase-bickering)The Day, Tuesday, Aug. 17, 1982
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Reagan’s demand for an end to bull-headed bickering over the $98.3 billion tax increase he supports is being greeted with defiance from conservatives in his own party and aloof support from Democrats.
In his nationally broadcast address Monday night, the president appealed to the public to tell their representatives “you understand that this legislation is a price worth paying for lower interest rates, economic recovery and more jobs.”
“We are within sight of the safe port of economic recovery,” Reagan said. “Do we make port or go aground on the shoals of selfishness, partisanship and just plain bullheadedness?”
“Noting that some legislators “of my own party object to this bill— and strongly,” Reagan called for “an end to the bickering here in the capital” and passage of the compromise tax package which is expected to be up for a vote first in the full House on Thursday. Senate action will follow.
Reagan, keeping up the pressure for enactment of the legislation, was calling another group of GOP legislators to the White House today for more personal lobbying.
However, it was clear the conservative Republicans who helped Reagan push record tax and spending cuts through Congress last year were remaining firm in their opposition this year.
“He’s going against the grain in the sense that the people don’t want the tax increase,” said Rep. Ed Bethune, an Arkansas Republican who remains opposed to the tax bill.
By White House estimates, more than half the House’s 192 Republicans are now lined up against the tax boost.
Rep. Jack Kemp, R-N.Y., a leader of the conservative opposition, took note of some of the specific tax increase proposals in an interview before the president’s speech:
“If you don’t use your telephone and if you don’t travel by air and if you don’t smoke cigarettes and if you don’t have any uninsured casualty losses and if you don’t have any medical costs in the next couple of years and if you’re not out of work trying to get a small business to hire you, I guess then it (the tax bill) won’t hurt.”
A nationally broadcast Democratic “response” following Reagan’s address offered more support.
“I have come to the conclusion that despite our differences in the past this is one occasion when the president’s position is right,” said House Democratic Whip Thomas S. Foley of Washington. “He (Reagan) said that we need this revenue measure— and we do.”
Sen. David Boren, D-Okla., who appeared with Foley, stopped short of an outright endorsement saying “we must live in the real world and the fact is that the administration’s program is not working.”
“We can’t simply keep saying prosperity is just around the corner” because such statements are “like a fireman telling people in a burning building not to worry, it may rain next week,” Boren said.
House Speaker Thomas P. O’Neill Jr., D-Mass., reaffirmed support for the measure today, but added, “The president isn’t out of the woods on this bill by any means, I wish he were.”
O’Neill said House Republicans will have to deliver about 100 votes for the tax bill.
Reagan, trying to calm the fears of conservative Republicans, said the three-year $98.3 billion tax hike “absolutely does not represent any reversal of policy or philosophy on the part of this administration.”
“Make no mistake about it,” Reagan declared, “This is a compromise. I had to swallow hard to agree to any revenue increase.”
But, he contended, “Much of this bill will make our tax system more fair for every American, especially those in lower-income brackets.”
He added that he supports it “because it’s right for America. I support it because it’s fair. I support it because it will, when combined with our cuts in government spending, reduce interest rates and put more Americans back to work again.”
Deputy White House press secretary Larry Speakes said Monday the vote ”is an important leadership question and all Republican members of Congress should realize that it is important to the party and important to success in the fall elections.”
Kemp disagreed.
“The president is big enough to tolerate a debate over ideas,” Kemp said. “And I would hope that those on his staff or beneath him would come to that conclusion ultimately, as well.”
White House officials have said that gaining the 218 votes necessary to assure a House victory will require a coalition of perhaps 80 Republicans and the rest Democrats.
A House Democrat aide said that at least half the 192 Republicans would be “a necessity” for passage.
The vote is “going to have an impact on his future effectiveness as a president and as a leader of our party and I would hope the bill would pass with at least 100 Republican votes in the House,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Bob Dole, R-Kan.
“The president sets our economic policy and I think particularly Republicans should try to find some way to support the president,” Dole said.
Reagan mentioned the nation’s recession only briefly, saying it was ”bottoming out without resorting to quick fixes. Now, there won’t be a sudden boom or upsurge.”


http://static.tumblr.com/tkqqpe9/p0Zlixw1m/post-types-1.png


Feb 25, 2012 (http://thegopleftme.com/post/18291789512/reagan-calls-for-an-end-to-tax-increase-bickering)




Every single one of Reagan's tax increases was supported by both parties. In some cases they were co-authored by Republicans. The Dem's never held a gun to his head and they were very upset with his deficit spending. Sorry to bust another righty myth.

[diverdog]

All that sabre rattling and tough talking pablum last night doesn't seem indicative that this ticket is serious about deficit reduction or budget restraint.

Yep. Pretty much spot on Prophet.

[rock on sooner]

Let' just bookmark this and see in November where we're at, and see if I am wrong or not.

I have been very guarded about our chances for a very long time. I'm not any more. I know what I am seeing. I've been through these since Carter. The writing is on the wall.

Barring a complete implosion, Romney is going to be the next prez, and he is going to have the house for sure, and most likely the senate too (not as sure about it) as people ride his coattails.
LLL, what is complete is a view of a completely destructive approach to every
social issue, a devastative approach to SS, Medicare, Medicaid and health care in
general. No freakin way they can do what they say. None. No Argument.

Your guys are looking at an egregious method of f******g every non Pub
(plus a few they dint figger on). It appears as though the supporters figger
that Ive got mine, f*** tha rest of ya. Kinda typical. Aint no way I see
a compassionate anything....
'

[rock on sooner]

Well, Im too slow at typing..

[XingTheRubicon]

All that sabre rattling and tough talking pablum last night doesn't seem indicative that this ticket is serious about deficit reduction or budget restraint.

I notice you didn't mention your party as it pertains to this issue.

[diverdog]

If by taxes you mean, what we pay to the I.R.S., the Oklahoma Tax Commission and the County, we most certainly do. ...and get this; we pay taxes on the money our small business earns and then when we pay ourselves a a salary to pay our personal bills with our own hard earned income, damn if we don't have to pay taxes on that too.

Mama:

I have owned small businesses and I am a commercial loan officer. One of my biggest struggles lending to most small businesses is to get them to show enough income to support a loan. I cannot tell you how many business owners I talk to who tell me with a wink and a smile that they make a ton of money yet they show a loss on the business and very little on the personal side. Cash businesses are the worst. I have to tell them they can't have their cake and eat it too. In other words don' t play games. There is no doubt there are responsible business owners who pay a lot in taxes. Really I am not talking about them but the others who cheat. The IRS estimates that between $200 billion dollars and $400 billion dollars go uncollected each year. The rest of us suffer beause people cheat on their taxes.

[Midtowner]

If by taxes you mean, what we pay to the I.R.S., the Oklahoma Tax Commission and the County, we most certainly do. ...and get this; we pay taxes on the money our small business earns and then when we pay ourselves a a salary to pay our personal bills with our own hard earned income, damn if we don't have to pay taxes on that too.

If you're a C-corp sure... who does that anymore though?