Are The 2 Major Political Parties Irrelevant?

[FaninAma]

Have the problems facing the country, especially the economic issues, combined with the unwillingness of elected leaders to make tough decisions rendered the entire electoral process irrelevant?

I would say yes to the extent that neitheer party will be able to avoid the inevitable economic corrections coming our way. It really doesn't matter if Obama is re-elected or Romney wins. Whoever is inpower over the next 6 years will have to make enormous changes that their bases(especially those on the left) will not like. I don't think Obama is up to the task like Bill Clinton was in the 90's. I don't think Obama will reach across partisan lines to make the necessary changes. Romney's ability to govern in a liberal state gives me more hope that he can do this.

[Ike]

Other than replacing "the unwillingness of elected leaders to make tough decisions" with "the unwillingness of elected leaders to work constructively with elected leaders from the other party" I would probably agree with you. Reasonable people can quibble as to whether or not those two phrases mean the same thing in our current political scenario.

I'm ever so slightly more optimistic about a Romney admin than another Obama admin, but that is mainly a function of the fact that Democratic congresscritters are by and large more conciliatory than their republican counterparts. However if the dems look at the republicans behavior over the last 4 years as a model to taking back the white house, then a Romney admin is equally as ****ed as an Obama admin.

[Skysooner]

Have the problems facing the country, especially the economic issues, combined with the unwillingness of elected leaders to make tough decisions rendered the entire electoral process irrelevant?

I would say yes to the extent that neitheer party will be able to avoid the inevitable economic corrections coming our way. It really doesn't matter if Obama is re-elected or Romney wins. Whoever is inpower over the next 6 years will have to make enormous changes that their bases(especially those on the left) will not like. I don't think Obama is up to the task like Bill Clinton was in the 90's. I don't think Obama will reach across partisan lines to make the necessary changes. Romney's ability to govern in a liberal state gives me more hope that he can do this.

I think Romney's success is going to be predicated on the quality of his Cabinet and staff. He basically cleaned house in the SLC Olympic Committe to get that thing back up and running. I think he will never be comfortable in front of the camera like Reagan and Obama. He is going to have to reach across those lines quietly and do the job that needs to be done.

I think the two party system is broken. I'm not sure I would say they are irrelevant. If a viable third party rose to power, it could help, but it could also degenerate into partisan bickering (particularly with the Senate rules on the filibuster.

[rock on sooner]

Respectfully, I think if Obama is re-elected he will, out of neccessity,
reach across the aisle. I also think he will get his hand slapped by
the Tea Partiers, who will stay with "It is our way, or no way." With
that in mind, irrelevance is a good description. Until there is a sea
change in the two extremes, left and right, that will continue. As soon
as the electorate identifies the main culprits and gets them out of office,
then a two party system won't be so bad.

[yermom]

yeah, irrelevant isn't the right word. ineffective to represent the populace? you betcha.

[SoonerAtKU]

Oh how nice it would be if a candidate were able to say exactly what you just did and still be elected. I would unequivocally support a candidate who said that we should ignore party politics until our country can afford to argue about fetuses. To quote Sorkin via Michael Douglas, "We've got serious problems, and we need serious people...".

And don't tell me Ron Paul, although I wish every politician was as dedicated to their beliefs as he is to his. It would make voting and being confident in your vote that much easier.

Someone once proposed having no election campaigning, merely having each candidate write up a list of their positions on each issue, then having to justify any decision made in office against those positions. No speeches, no debates, just a list of candidates and what they believe in with a small guarantee that they'd be acting that way after elected. Hell, you could even give them accuracy ratings like QBs.

[Ike]

Someone once proposed having no election campaigning, merely having each candidate write up a list of their positions on each issue, then having to justify any decision made in office against those positions. No speeches, no debates, just a list of candidates and what they believe in with a small guarantee that they'd be acting that way after elected. Hell, you could even give them accuracy ratings like QBs.

I had a similar idea once. Instead, I would propose that once a week each candidate would be given space in a major newspaper for an Op-ed piece. That's it. No TV ads, No paid ads of any kind. Just text.

[SoonerAtKU]

The unsung issue in all of this is campaign finance reform. Once you remove the barriers to donation and input, you open the floodgates to influence. There's big money in winning an election, and there's a big machine in place on both sides to help that happen. It's become an industry unto itself, and it keeps honest people from being elected. That's a HUGE problem in my opinion. It's also the reason that I would have voted for McCain in 2000, but never in 2008. He became what he hated, just to become President, and I couldn't trust him any longer. If he was willing to compromise on all of that, then who knows what he'd be capable of after being elected.

Now, that's not to say that I'm happy with Obama, either. He's a product of the same system, where "electable" wins over what's good for the country.

[okie52]

I had a similar idea once. Instead, I would propose that once a week each candidate would be given space in a major newspaper for an Op-ed piece. That's it. No TV ads, No paid ads of any kind. Just text.

Well that's going to eliminate all of the illiterates.

[rock on sooner]

Well that's going to eliminate all of the illiterates.

Geez, there wont be anyone to influence....

[okie52]

Geez, there wont be anyone to influence....

Heh, that's where we come in.

[FaninAma]

yeah, irrelevant isn't the right word. ineffective to represent the populace? you betcha.

Ineffectiveness over a sustained period of time leads to irrelavancy. I suspect our duly elected leaders will secede their Constitutional authority to an unelected special commission ala the base closing commission.

This will prevent any fundamental changes in the way each party caters to their constituency and we will find ourselves back in the same situation within a couple of years.

The basic premise is that elected leaders are weak and unprincipled because the population who elects them are weak and unprincipled.

[Sooner5030]

irrelevant? I'd say more of an obstacle....but not as much of an obstacle as our population. All of us feel that our net contribution (taxes paid - benefits from intervention) is maxed out. "DONT touch my piece of the pie!! We had the last 25 years to solve this problem but kicked the can down the road until it is too painful to deal with......all we can do now is hope the machine keeps rolling along until it doesn't. No policy will fix this.

[rock on sooner]

Heh, that's where we come in.

Ize 'fraid of that...:highly_amused:

[yermom]

Ineffectiveness over a sustained period of time leads to irrelavancy. I suspect our duly elected leaders will secede their Constitutional authority to an unelected special commission ala the base closing commission.

This will prevent any fundamental changes in the way each party caters to their constituency and we will find ourselves back in the same situation within a couple of years.

The basic premise is that elected leaders are weak and unprincipled because the population who elects them are weak and unprincipled.

the problem is that they have all the power and set things up so they can't be unseated. just look at how the Pubs won't even allow dissent in their own ranks with this Ron Paul delegation business at the RNC

until people stop voting for them, they will continue to be relevant. all they have to do is hit the hot-button issues and not really do anything meaningful to keep robbing us blind

[yermom]

people can bitch all they want, but until someone actually kicks them off the sofa and takes their big screen and SUV not much is going to change

[FaninAma]

the problem is that they have all the power and set things up so they can't be unseated. just look at how the Pubs won't even allow dissent in their own ranks with this Ron Paul delegation business at the RNC

until people stop voting for them, they will continue to be relevant. all they have to do is hit the hot-button issues and not really do anything meaningful to keep robbing us blind

Good points which leads me to refine my proposed question. Has the electorate and elective process in this country become irrelevant? Have we traveled too far down the slope of handing over our responsibilites to guard against an over-reaching government that now we have to face the music of that choice......high debt, over-regulation, permanent entitlement classes......until the end game plays out?

[SoonerorLater]

Good points which leads me to refine my proposed question. Has the electorate and elective process in this country become irrelevant? Have we traveled too far down the slope of handing over our responsibilites to guard against an over-reaching government that now we have to face the music of that choice......high debt, over-regulation, permanent entitlement classes......until the end game plays out?


Irrelevant to the extent that it does not matter which party is in power. I'm baffled people think that some politician is going to correct the problems of this country. At this point there is no political solution to our problems. No person or persons will be able to come in and turn this around because it is impossible to save the current system. What we will have in the next few years is a social and economic reset. We don't have a political problem any more we have a mathematical problem and all of the platitudes and political happy talk won't change that. We are beyond broke and will never be able to pay our bills. Never. The American People won't need an idea-log at the helm as much as a crisis manager.