Another Occupy Thread

[I Am Right]

Cannabis smoking 'permanently lowers IQ'

Teenagers who regularly smoke cannabis are putting themselves at risk of permanently damaging their intelligence, according to a landmark study.







Starting smoking cannabis during one's teens can have permanent effects on the brain, found researchers. Photo: ALAMY









By Stephen Adams, Medical Correspondent

8:00PM BST 27 Jul 2012



1290 Comments





Researchers found persistent users of the drug, who started smoking it at school, had lower IQ scores as adults.


They were also significantly more likely to have attention and memory problems in later life, than their peers who abstained.


Furthermore, those who started as teenagers and used it heavily, but quit as adults, did not regain their full mental powers, found academics at King’s College London and Duke University in the US.


They looked at data from over 1,000 people from Dunedin in New Zealand, who have been followed through their lives since being born in 1972 or 1973.


Participants were asked about cannabis usage when they were 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38. Their IQ was tested at 13 and 38. In addition, each nominated a close friend or family member, who was asked about attention and memory problems.



Related Articles

Cannabis could be used to treat obesity-related diseases
08 Jul 2012

Cannabis health dangers 'underestimated'
06 Jun 2012

Cannabis vending machine opens in New Zealand
22 Mar 2012


About one in 20 admitted to starting cannabis use before the age of 18, while a further one in 10 took up the habit in the early or mid 20s.

Professor Terrie Moffitt, of KCL’s Institute of Psychiatry, who contributed to the study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, said “persistent users” who started as teenagers suffered a drop of eight IQ points at the age of 38, compared to when they were 13.

Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week.

She said: “Adolescent-onset cannabis users, but not adult-onset cannabis users, showed marked IQ decline from childhood to adulthood.

“For example, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years thereafter showed an average eight-point IQ decline.

“Quitting or reducing cannabis use did not appear to fully restore intellectual functioning among adolescent-onset former persistent cannabis users,” she said.

Although eight points did not sound much, it was not trivial, she warned.

It meant that an average person dropped far down the intelligence rankings, so that instead of 50 per cent of the population being more intelligent than them, 71 per cent were.

“Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a person’s access to a college education, their lifelong total income, their access to a good job, their performance on the job, their tendency to develop heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease, and even early death,” she said.

“Individuals who lose eight IQ points in their teens and 20s may be disadvantaged, relative to their same-age peers, in most of the important aspects of life and for years to come.”

The cognitive abilities of the 10 per cent of people who started in their 20s - who could loosely be classed as college smokers - also suffered while they were still smoking.

However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back.

Prof Moffitt said adolescent brains appeared "more vulnerable to damage and disruption" from cannabis than those of fully mature adults.

Reliable figures on cannabis usage among today’s British teens and twentysomethings are hard to come by.

But Prof Moffitt said there was growing concern in the US that cannabis was increasingly being seen as a safe alternative to tobacco.

“This is the first year that more secondary school students in the US are using cannabis than tobacco, according to the Monitoring the Future project at the University of Michigan,” she noted.

“Fewer now think cannabis is damaging than tobacco. But cannabis is harmful for the very young.”

[SicEmBaylor]

4 days a week from 18-38? Holy God...so that's the tiniest of a minority of marijuana smokers. This is just a bull**** study meant to make people think that smoking a little pot here and there is going to cause them to be permanently relegated to the short bus. It's a load of crap.

[Midtowner]

The study also fails to account for extraneous and environmental factors which might disproportionately affect marijuana smokers, e.g., socioeconomic factors, nutrition, etc. In short, correlation =/= causation. Makes for a good junk science article in Newsweek though.

[achiro]

The study also fails to account for extraneous and environmental factors which might disproportionately affect marijuana smokers, e.g., socioeconomic factors, nutrition, etc. In short, correlation =/= causation. Makes for a good junk science article in Newsweek though.

Why you gotta be racist?

[Midtowner]

Why you gotta be racist?

Well, you've clearly been smoking marijuana within the prescribed 13-38 age range.

[achiro]

Well, you've clearly been smoking marijuana within the prescribed 13-38 age range.

I've never smoked pot in my life but I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that you have.

[okie52]

4 tiams uh weak wuld've bin loe four mee en calledge.

[badger]

Makes sense. It seems to make people more relaxed and mellow, like those who lack sleep.

And lack of sleep causes brain problems later in life (and makes you not think straight) soooooooooo....

Whatever. People will still do it, much like you can tell people what the ingredients to meth are and they will still pursue it if they're addicts.

[pphilfran]

4 tiams uh weak wuld've bin loe four mee en calledge.

mee to...

[Midtowner]

I've never smoked pot in my life but I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that you have.

Never touched the stuff, but I don't mind other folks doing it within moderation.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Reading obamafest 2012 is likely to do more damage to an individuals intelligence than any pot smoking :apthy:

Anyways, who would have thought using a psychoactive drug religiously would cause brain damage? Shocking I say, shocking.

[soonercruiser]

The study also fails to account for extraneous and environmental factors which might disproportionately affect marijuana smokers, e.g., socioeconomic factors, nutrition, etc. In short, correlation =/= causation. Makes for a good junk science article in Newsweek though.

MID!
What's the problem?
It's just as good science as some of the stuff you Lefties post from the Huffington Post!
And, it works for you!

[8timechamps]

The pot heads I've known along the way in life were some of the most mellow folks I've known. They also, to a person, lacked any real motivation to do anything. My oldest son is in high school, and I see the exact same traits in the pot heads of his generation.

I don't consider someone who uses marijuana for legitimate medicinal reasons a pot head. A pot head is someone that gets high daily for the purpose of being high. I'm guessing that it would also be pretty hard to be successful in life, and be a pot head. The music industry may be the exception.

[AlboSooner]

It's funny to see the pot-friendly folks squirm when their "pot is harmless" foundation is being demolished at the hands of scientific studies.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/07/marijuana-use-may-speed-psychosis/

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

It's funny to see the pot-friendly folks squirm when their "pot is harmless" foundation is being demolished at the hands of scientific studies.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/07/marijuana-use-may-speed-psychosis/
Really irrelevant that its harmless or not. Its not dangerous to others if you're using it, especially when compared to alcohol. You can't OD on it. There IS medical use, however hard the nanny gov't tries to deny it.

[C&CDean]

Really irrelevant that its harmless or not. Its not dangerous to others if you're using it, especially when compared to alcohol. You can't OD on it. There IS medical use, however hard the nanny gov't tries to deny it.

Not really true. I've driven while high and when I'm going 25 in a 55 and go "oh ****," and then speed up to 70 and then go "oh ****" and I'm all paranoid because some cop might see me? I'm most definitely dangerous to others.

We've had this old discussion many, many times around here. Having been someone who did smoke pot from 12 until about 31 - many more times than 4 per week (hell, I smoked it more than 4 times a day for most of those years) - I am more qualified than most to talk about it.

Pot pretty much ruins your life. Harmlessly. Very slow and subtely you waist away. Proven fact. Those that don't believe that are ignorant.

[KABOOKIE]

The same things could be said about alcohol. Yet one is AOK and the other is a crime.

[C&CDean]

And here we go again...

[cleller]

How'd you like to overhear your surgeon talking about smoking dope? Funny how you don't hear about the Robert Goddards, Enrico Fermis, Jonas Saulks, or really anyone of great accomplishment promoting marijuana.

[XingTheRubicon]

Not really true. I've driven while high and when I'm going 25 in a 55 and go "oh ****," and then speed up to 70 and then go "oh ****" and I'm all paranoid because some cop might see me? I'm most definitely dangerous to others.

We've had this old discussion many, many times around here. Having been someone who did smoke pot from 12 until about 31 - many more times than 4 per week (hell, I smoked it more than 4 times a day for most of those years) - I am more qualified than most to talk about it.

Pot pretty much ruins your life. Harmlessly. Very slow and subtely you waist away. Proven fact. Those that don't believe that are ignorant.

Soooo, has your IQ been permanently damaged? Coming to Norman today, btw.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Not really true. I've driven while high and when I'm going 25 in a 55 and go "oh ****," and then speed up to 70 and then go "oh ****" and I'm all paranoid because some cop might see me? I'm most definitely dangerous to others.

We've had this old discussion many, many times around here. Having been someone who did smoke pot from 12 until about 31 - many more times than 4 per week (hell, I smoked it more than 4 times a day for most of those years) - I am more qualified than most to talk about it.

Pot pretty much ruins your life. Harmlessly. Very slow and subtely you waist away. Proven fact. Those that don't believe that are ignorant.
Pretty much anything can ruin your life if you consume/use/watch/etc too much of it. Sorry you don't have much self-control, but there are plenty of people who smoke pot and lead 100% productive lives.

[jkjsooner]

4 days a week from 18-38? Holy God...so that's the tiniest of a minority of marijuana smokers. This is just a bull**** study meant to make people think that smoking a little pot here and there is going to cause them to be permanently relegated to the short bus. It's a load of crap.

I don't think that's the intent of the study but the results will be interpreted that way by some.

[jkjsooner]

Not really true. I've driven while high and when I'm going 25 in a 55 and go "oh ****," and then speed up to 70 and then go "oh ****" and I'm all paranoid because some cop might see me? I'm most definitely dangerous to others.

We've had this old discussion many, many times around here. Having been someone who did smoke pot from 12 until about 31 - many more times than 4 per week (hell, I smoked it more than 4 times a day for most of those years) - I am more qualified than most to talk about it.


You're qualified to talk about excessive abuse of pot. I think your experience makes you unqualified to make assumptions about someone who may have done it a handful times a year for a few years.

I know this study isn't about those rare users but this study will be used to demonize all users.

[C&CDean]

Like I said, here we go again.

[yermom]

you mention driving, but you shouldn't drive on lots of things that are legal

your arguments are sound for reasons to not smoke weed, but not to make it against the law

[FaninAma]

Not really true. I've driven while high and when I'm going 25 in a 55 and go "oh ****," and then speed up to 70 and then go "oh ****" and I'm all paranoid because some cop might see me? I'm most definitely dangerous to others.

We've had this old discussion many, many times around here. Having been someone who did smoke pot from 12 until about 31 - many more times than 4 per week (hell, I smoked it more than 4 times a day for most of those years) - I am more qualified than most to talk about it.

Pot pretty much ruins your life. Harmlessly. Very slow and subtely you waist away. Proven fact. Those that don't believe that are ignorant.

Dean, all of us have f'd up majorly in some way. Some of us can admit it like you just did. Hell, I *uck up on a daily basis and only hope I am mature enough and man enough to recognize when I do and learn from it.

Learning from your mistakes....now that is an idea that is becoming more and more of an anathema in our society. We have a society that excuses every form of irresponsible behavior and mistake including those that are personally and culturally destructive.

Part of me feels we should legalize all drugs but then the individuals who abuse them get punished to the full extent of the law if they break the law while under the influence. And if they develop health issues related to the overuse of those drugs they should get no help whatsoever in paying for the cost of care involved in treating the health problem they inflicted upon themselves.

In other words, make your own decisions but be adult enough to bear the consequences of those decisions.

[C&CDean]

Law schmaw. I couldn't give 2 ****s if it's legal/illegal. I'm just talking about what it does to folks. Anybody who says "I know this one guy who smokes a bunch of dope and he's like the CEO dude...so successful..." is a ****ing tool. You know who smokes a lot of dope? Spicoli. John Bender. Me in my youth.

Yeah Steve, learn from your mistakes and pay your way when you screw the pooch. Novel concept, huh? America is pretty much hosed. In the A. With a bunch of apathetic, anemic, red-eyed pantywaists who think they're righteous. Well them, and a bunch of dillweeds who go "I ain't never touched the stuff, but it's alright by me by gawd..." Mega meh. Pots ****s you up people. That simple. Nobody is above it. You smoke it, you're ****ing up your dealio. That's the rules. I don't give a **** about the 1 dude you know who's a pothead and successful. Cause it ain't true.

[diverdog]

Law schmaw. I couldn't give 2 ****s if it's legal/illegal. I'm just talking about what it does to folks. Anybody who says "I know this one guy who smokes a bunch of dope and he's like the CEO dude...so successful..." is a ****ing tool. You know who smokes a lot of dope? Spicoli. John Bender. Me in my youth.

Yeah Steve, learn from your mistakes and pay your way when you screw the pooch. Novel concept, huh? America is pretty much hosed. In the A. With a bunch of apathetic, anemic, red-eyed pantywaists who think they're righteous. Well them, and a bunch of dillweeds who go "I ain't never touched the stuff, but it's alright by me by gawd..." Mega meh. Pots ****s you up people. That simple. Nobody is above it. You smoke it, you're ****ing up your dealio. That's the rules. I don't give a **** about the 1 dude you know who's a pothead and successful. Cause it ain't true.

Everything in moderation my friend.

Some of the chit out there will f*** you up. I remember seeing ants crawling on my tv except there were no ants and there was no tv. Then the walls started to breath. All that from a shrum.

[olevetonahill]

aHell at my age I dont think I can get any more ****ed up
Think Ill take a toke

[Skysooner]

Law schmaw. I couldn't give 2 ****s if it's legal/illegal. I'm just talking about what it does to folks. Anybody who says "I know this one guy who smokes a bunch of dope and he's like the CEO dude...so successful..." is a ****ing tool. You know who smokes a lot of dope? Spicoli. John Bender. Me in my youth.

Yeah Steve, learn from your mistakes and pay your way when you screw the pooch. Novel concept, huh? America is pretty much hosed. In the A. With a bunch of apathetic, anemic, red-eyed pantywaists who think they're righteous. Well them, and a bunch of dillweeds who go "I ain't never touched the stuff, but it's alright by me by gawd..." Mega meh. Pots ****s you up people. That simple. Nobody is above it. You smoke it, you're ****ing up your dealio. That's the rules. I don't give a **** about the 1 dude you know who's a pothead and successful. Cause it ain't true.

Based on the few times I have been high in my life (coke twice, X twice and pot about a dozen times), I never wanted to really go long-term on any of it. Alcohol does the same thing in some ways but is semi more controllable (at least that is my excuse). My mom was an X addict, and it messed her up for life. Virtually nothing in excess is good. I am not anti-drug per se, but I would tan the hide of my kids if they did. Kind of not very enlightened of me, but I agree with Dean on this.

[AlboSooner]

Everything in moderation my friend.

Some of the chit out there will f*** you up. I remember seeing ants crawling on my tv except there were no ants and there was no tv. Then the walls started to breath. All that from a shrum.

I don't know what we can use moderation to argue for the legalization of Cocaine, or Meth.

The argument of moderation has one huge flaw: most humans are addictive by nature. We are addicted to caffeine, sugar, junk food, porn, sports, TV, internet, but hey let's trust these addicts to be moderate with drugs.

If pot was legalized, things would definitely take a turn for the worst in the intellectual realm, productive real, health care realm, whatever.....

[AlboSooner]

you mention driving, but you shouldn't drive on lots of things that are legal

your arguments are sound for reasons to not smoke weed, but not to make it against the law


I don't get this argument "because X is legal and abused we must legalize Y hoping it doesn't get abused."

[yermom]

well, we saw it it worked out when alcohol was illegal

small government yet again saving us from ourselves?

[okie52]

I don't get this argument "because X is legal and abused we must legalize Y hoping it doesn't get abused."

Because when I smoke the stuff I need a drink to wash it down.

[olevetonahill]

These 2 stoners are in a bar, each grab Pool cues and go to beatin the **** out of folks

Yea I didnt think so either :pirate:

[C&CDean]

Me and olevet are pretty much identical in terms of values, thought processes, politics, etc.

The difference is...

He lives in a shack on a hill and I live at the Deanarosa. :)

Case close mother****ers.

[olevetonahill]

Me and olevet are pretty much identical in terms of values, thought processes, politics, etc.

The difference is...

He lives in a shack on a hill and I live at the Deanarosa. :)

Case close mother****ers.

Plus you got a beautiful wife . All I got is a mangy weenie :pirate:

[cleller]

One of these days in the Great Beyond Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Bob Hope and George Patton will be sitting around a poker table talking about the good ole days.

Then you'll have another table with Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and the Choom Gang sitting around talking about smoking pot.

Pick your table.

[yermom]

yeah, because all Bill Clinton and Obama ever did was smoke weed, play XBox and eat Cheetos

[jkjsooner]

Like I said, here we go again.

Then please give your argument against what I said.

From the people I know personally, most people who have smoked pot only did so occasionally and only over a short period of time. These people are some of the most successful people I know. Most of them have either Ivy degrees or Ivy-like degrees. Some of them are scientists (with PhD's). One is a very successful Wharton (Penn) business school grad.

I agree with you that long term regular pot smoking is very harmful. I have one friend who fits that mold. He's a very smart Rice grad but his motivation it lacking. What's worse is that it's obvious that his pot smoking has affected his ability to have and maintain relationships.

The point I'm making is that the experience of the regular pot smoker can't be applied to the others.

I don't mean to be critical of your choices. You're doing enough of that yourself. I do think your argument is exactly like the ex-alcoholics who criticize the occasional drinker for have a beer or two.


I don't get this argument "because X is legal and abused we must legalize Y hoping it doesn't get abused."

I tend to think that you need to have strong reasons to limit personal liberties. I'm not a libertarian because I do feel that there are often reasons to do so but I don't think the harmful effects of pot smoking reach that level.

I also feel that drug enforcement (as it relates to pot) has caused many more problems that it has solved.

The relative danger of pot is relevant when you're weighing the consequences of enforcement and the limitations on personal liberty. Comparing it to alcohol is a way to put those dangers in perspective.


Now back to the study. I think study after study has shown that drug use among adolescence is very dangerous. That is true for legal (alcohol, tobacco) and illegal drugs. These people are much more likely to become addicted than those who abstained until adulthood. Drugs also affect their developing minds. I would not encourage the legalization of selling any drug to minors.

[olevetonahill]

yeah, because all Bill Clinton and Obama ever did was smoke weed, play XBox and eat Cheetos

You orta Not be spreading those kinda things Unless ya Know its true.

[jkjsooner]

yeah, because all Bill Clinton and Obama ever did was smoke weed, play XBox and eat Cheetos

Or Bush.

[C&CDean]

jkj,

Everybody smoked a little weed. The smart ones went "meh, it ain't for me" and moved on to a successful life. The dumbasses like me and olevet liked it and kept doing it for a long time and we excelled in splendid mediocrity. The ones who dabbled with it are fine. The ones who smoke it all the time are effed in terms of continuing to advance their life/situation. Olevet is happy to live on the hill in his shack with biznacho the weenie dog. That's cool. However, it ain't for me - or most folks.

And Bush wasn't smart enough to play x-box.

[Fraggle145]

How'd you like to overhear your surgeon talking about smoking dope? Funny how you don't hear about the Robert Goddards, Enrico Fermis, Jonas Saulks, or really anyone of great accomplishment promoting marijuana.

Clearly you dont hung out with many academics or scientists.

[olevetonahill]

jkj,

Everybody smoked a little weed. The smart ones went "meh, it ain't for me" and moved on to a successful life. The dumbasses like me and olevet liked it and kept doing it for a long time and we excelled in splendid mediocrity. The ones who dabbled with it are fine. The ones who smoke it all the time are effed in terms of continuing to advance their life/situation. Olevet is happy to live on the hill in his shack with biznacho the weenie dog. That's cool. However, it ain't for me - or most folks.

And Bush wasn't smart enough to play x-box.


It aint the Pot what makes me Live this way. Its the People Ive encountered for the most part

Hell I bet I aint smoked a 1/2 ounce in the last 30 years

[okie52]

It aint the Pot what makes me Live this way. Its the People Ive encountered for the most part

Hell I bet I aint smoked a 1/2 ounce in the last 30 years

I heard Icky is moving next door to you.

[jkjsooner]

jkj,

Everybody smoked a little weed. The smart ones went "meh, it ain't for me" and moved on to a successful life. The dumbasses like me and olevet liked it and kept doing it for a long time and we excelled in splendid mediocrity. The ones who dabbled with it are fine. The ones who smoke it all the time are effed in terms of continuing to advance their life/situation. Olevet is happy to live on the hill in his shack with biznacho the weenie dog. That's cool. However, it ain't for me - or most folks.

And Bush wasn't smart enough to play x-box.

Fair enough. I think we are in agreement then.

[rock on sooner]

Or Bush.

Pretty sure that in West Texas oil fields, there was stuff
a lot stronger than weed for Bush to play with...

[olevetonahill]

I heard Icky is moving next door to you.

That would be great, I almost had him changed over to a Conservative, Bet if he lived close I could finish the job :highly_amused:

[okie52]

That would be great, I almost had him changed over to a Conservative, Bet if he lived close I could finish the job :highly_amused:

Heh heh...

[XingTheRubicon]

Clearly you dont hung out with many academics or scientists.

assuming you're high now

[KABOOKIE]

Clearly you dont hung out with many academics or scientists.

Are you talking about the "great" scientist or just the mediocre ones that say global warming is all mans fault?

[cleller]

Clearly you dont hung out with many academics or scientists.

Not sure if that's joking agreement, or not....^

One of my suitemates from Walker Tower is now a surgeon, another some kind systems designer with HP, neither ever touched the stuff, nor did any of their cohorts. (third guy dropped out, went to work for UPS, and is doing fine, too.)

I can think of a handful of people that really went on to big things, and none of them were tokers. Of the people I met in college that were pot smokers, I can't think of any that have had any remarkable success, at least that I'm aware of.

If people want to smoke the junk, I'm kind of ambivalent about it, as long as they don't screw up other peoples lives due to being messed up on the job or road. If you want to argue that its absolutely fine and won't harm a cell in your body, that's as logical as saying sprinters should live on onion rings and bacon, and smoke in their spare time.

[Fraggle145]

Not sure if that's joking agreement, or not....^

One of my suitemates from Walker Tower is now a surgeon, another some kind systems designer with HP, neither ever touched the stuff, nor did any of their cohorts. (third guy dropped out, went to work for UPS, and is doing fine, too.)

I can think of a handful of people that really went on to big things, and none of them were tokers. Of the people I met in college that were pot smokers, I can't think of any that have had any remarkable success, at least that I'm aware of.

If people want to smoke the junk, I'm kind of ambivalent about it, as long as they don't screw up other peoples lives due to being messed up on the job or road. If you want to argue that its absolutely fine and won't harm a cell in your body, that's as logical as saying sprinters should live on onion rings and bacon, and smoke in their spare time.

Its a little bit of both. Some of the most brilliant scientists that I have met have been habitual smokers. Some of the really sucky ones have been smokers too.

I dont think anyone argues that it is good for you. And I think if it came down to career vs. pot most of them would easily put their career first.

I was just saying that a lot of academics and scientists smoke pot (and for Kabookie it includes "great" scientists and those that recognize that climate change is obviously occurring and that it is inexplainable unless you include humans and their impacts) . A lot more of them drink their asses off. Its a pretty high stress job to try to stay relevant in a field of study.

[Fraggle145]

assuming you're high now

No. I've got responsibilities like my 6 month old that was in the other room asleep at the time. But if I didnt have anything that I needed to be responsible for then yeah I might toke a doob. What of it?

[cleller]

I dont think anyone argues that it is good for you. And I think if it came down to career vs. pot most of them would easily put their career first.



If they truly are smart. This is where the Ricky Williams' of the world come to mind. Lots of borderline types can put the whole game down the drain while in a funky haze.

It would be interesting to check back with you when you child is a teen, and get your views then.

[KABOOKIE]

(and for Kabookie it includes "great" scientists and those that recognize that climate change is obviously occurring and that it is inexplainable unless you include humans and their impacts) . A lot more of them drink their asses off. Its a pretty high stress job to try to stay relevant in a field of study.

Couldn't agree more. Their relevance/livelihood hinges on their data findings. yeah, no bias there.

[Fraggle145]

Couldn't agree more. Their relevance/livelihood hinges on their data findings. yeah, no bias there.

But how is that any different than those who disagree with their findings? Which side/group/people have more to lose?