Mike Stoops?

[SoonerinSouthlake]

So a Ive seen people on this board express that they feel the "Big Game Bob" Magic started leaking out of the bottom of the bucket when Mike left for AZ. I admit that I too felt the attitude went away. My intent is not to start a debate on this, nor solicit opinions on what problems we've had getting # 8.

Rather, Id like to ask those of you who live close, know coaches, listen to local news...has there been any sort of upswing in confidence, swagger, etc since Mike stepped back on campus.

What about with Bob? He has never lacked a certain level of confidence, but is there a different bounce in his step since little bro came home??

Just wondering...and hoping

[Breadburner]

That will only be revealed on the field.....

[MamaMia]

Breadburner is correct. We'll just have to see what happens once they step on the field.

As far as your question about whether or not as an Oklahoma resident who is surrounded in OU news, have I seen any changes or not, I would say that its about the same.

[12]

I agree.....

[C&CDean]

As long as we keep getting hurt and being stupid, all the Mikey swagger in the world ain't gonna help.

If we go all the way this year it'll be because our starters stay healthy, there's no more idiocy, a couple of heretofore unproven players step up, and the stars line up to allow us to squeak a win when we shouldn't have.

Mike ain't any better than coach V. Hopefully he'll bring some mojo or something.

[thunderfan]

Mike ain't any better than coach V.

Are you paid to say such nonsense?

[85sooners]

Bob invented swag

[olevetonahill]

Are you paid to say such nonsense?
http://www.hilaliya.com/noob_tn.jpg

[agoo758]

http://www.hilaliya.com/noob_tn.jpg

For sure, but I like him already.

[goingoneight]

Dean's got a point, though... we were a Ryan Reynolds and an Austin Box away from possibly #8 in 2008 and early 2010.
BV was on hand in the five seasons Mike was here too. That all too often is forgotten. How well do we play without Torrance Marshall and Quentin Griffin against FSU? Substitute TM for an experienced MLB and DeMarco Murray for Q vs UF.

There were a few times in the first five years when we weren't exactly singing praises for Mike Stoops, too.

In the end, BV is now at Clemson and Tim Kish has his old position. Hopefully, it spells success. However, we've seen just as many Vince Youngs, Robert Griffins and Justin Blackmon's torch us as we'd have seen Brad Smiths, Rashaun Woods's, etc before. The conference is flat out just better now than it was then across the board. Friggin Baylor won ten games and a Heisman last year. That's not exactly all Brent's fault.

If Mike duplicates the success we had from 2000-2003 again, there's a legitimate chance he's the best DC we've ever had. To the BV haters' credit, Bob didn't bring Mike back for no reason. Even the BV fans will admit that. OUr secondary has NFL talent with Iowa State results. I was hoping we'd get both MS and BV together again... but oh, well. I'm still a Sooner fan and as far as that goes, I'm ready for the 2012 to see if this is good change or Obama change.

[EnragedOUfan]

I think its no coincidence that we got thrashed by K-State, USC, West Virginia especially, and by the other spread teams that manhandled us........With Brent V as D Coord, our D Backs generally lined up 10 yards from the LOS and we mostly had 3 linebackers in against defending the spread and time after time, our defense got thrashed. And very, very seldom did Brent V make an in game adjustment. I kept wondering why our Linebackers would keep dropping back into zone coverage in the 4th quarter when Tim Tebow for a straight 3 or 4 plays kept scrambling......

The only game off the top of my head in which I can remember an actual solid half time adjustment was the OU-Texas Tech game back in 2006 when we came back and shut down Texas Tech. Other than that, it was painful seeing us get lit up by every spread team that existed.......

With all of these pitiful defensive meltdowns that we've experienced especially in BCS games, it most definitely affected the mojo of Stoops.....
.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

....again, not trying to get a bash BV thread together. Here is what I hope is happening though: Bob is a confident, some say cocky, "hang 'em out there" type of coach. Thats why he is the leader, and good one. Mike has a lot of the same attributes. Seems like when they were together early that maybe they drove each other...gave each other even more confidence and bigger brass ones. Maybe I have it all wrong, but through my crimson glasses, thats what I wanted to see. And that seemed to permeate the entire team's psyche.

I dont get to see the nightly reports..just thinking maybe there is already some evidence showing

[ObiKaTony]

As long as we keep getting hurt and being stupid, all the Mikey swagger in the world ain't gonna help.

If we go all the way this year it'll be because our starters stay healthy, there's no more idiocy, a couple of heretofore unproven players step up, and the stars line up to allow us to squeak a win when we shouldn't have.

Mike ain't any better than coach V. Hopefully he'll bring some mojo or something.

Where are your stats backing up that last line? When you finally do your research comparing the two you should reach the conclusion that Mike is 10x the coach V is. This will be backed up on the field this year. Coach V. was mediocre @ best and for you to state it’s a wash defies all football reality…

I have been saying for years that V should have been let go, and apparently after interviewing for about 20 head coaching positions he was FORCED out by Bob to make a lateral move...

[hawaii 5-0]

I forgot how many Head Coach jobs Venables has takien/been offered.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

Where are your stats backing up that last line? When you finally do your research comparing the two you should reach the conclusion that Mike is 10x the coach V is. This will be backed up on the field this year. Coach V. was mediocre @ best and for you to state it’s a wash defies all football reality…

I have been saying for years that V should have been let go, and apparently after interviewing for about 20 head coaching positions he was FORCED out by Bob to make a lateral move...

Heh I think there might be an invasion of em

http://www.hilaliya.com/noob_tn.jpg

[Tulsa_Fireman]

http://media.masslive.com/my_wide_world/photo/hoosiers20jpg-c140b9850ae379fb_large.jpg

We're gonna run th' picket fence!

[marfacowboy]

I don't think it's a matter of Mike being a better coach than Coach V. Sometimes you just need a change. Players respond differently to different coaches. But for Oklahoma to win another national title, we have to have a devastating defense. We can't just outscore people, and I think having Stoops back in that role gives us a better chance today.

[BoulderSooner79]

The Mike Stoops impact on the defense is the most interesting aspect for me going into the this season. I wasn't thrilled about the decision to go that way, but I do think Mike was a great DC while he was here. But it's been 8 years since he has been a DC and the last 2 years as HC have been very tough for him. Can you really go home? Obviously the pollsters are believers big time and Mike seems to have passion for what he's doing here from his interviews. I'm not assuming one way or another on how it turns out; just very interested in how it unfolds. We'll see soon enough. Boomer!

[picasso]

Where are your stats backing up that last line? When you finally do your research comparing the two you should reach the conclusion that Mike is 10x the coach V is. This will be backed up on the field this year. Coach V. was mediocre @ best and for you to state it’s a wash defies all football reality…

I have been saying for years that V should have been let go, and apparently after interviewing for about 20 head coaching positions he was FORCED out by Bob to make a lateral move...
I don't think Bob forced him out. He simply decided he didn't want to share his job with Mike and moved on.

[thunderfan]

seems this Dean guy likes to spout off with nothing to back it up.

[C&CDean]

Show me some stats proving mike is better. You can't. And it seems we have another ****tard itching for a bitch slap.

[8timechamps]

The Mike Stoops impact on the defense is the most interesting aspect for me going into the this season. I wasn't thrilled about the decision to go that way, but I do think Mike was a great DC while he was here. But it's been 8 years since he has been a DC and the last 2 years as HC have been very tough for him. Can you really go home? Obviously the pollsters are believers big time and Mike seems to have passion for what he's doing here from his interviews. I'm not assuming one way or another on how it turns out; just very interested in how it unfolds. We'll see soon enough. Boomer!


That's my thinking too. There really is no way to tell if one is better than the other, because Mike has been a head coach for the past 8 years, while BV was a coordinator. In the end, I just hope the change Mike brings is a good spark for this team.

As for the whole "Big Game Bob" thing; I cringe every time I hear the media talk about HCBS losing his "Big Game Bob" status. I think Stoops always responds with something like "you have to be in the big game first" (referring to the BCS losses). No other school can claim as many BCS title game appearances. Sure, we all want to win them all, but getting there is a major part of success. If Stoops were an NFL coach, with a core of players that stayed with him over the years, I could understand. But, in college, he has to deal with 100% turnover every four years (or less). The fact that he has continually made appearances in the title game is amazing.

[olevetonahill]

seems this Dean guy likes to spout off with nothing to back it up.

You are so right. He needs YOU to slap him in shape

[Salt City Sooner]

Where are your stats backing up that last line? When you finally do your research comparing the two you should reach the conclusion that Mike is 10x the coach V is. This will be backed up on the field this year. Coach V. was mediocre @ best and for you to state it’s a wash defies all football reality…

I have been saying for years that V should have been let go, and apparently after interviewing for about 20 head coaching positions he was FORCED out by Bob to make a lateral move...

Yeah, OU forced Venables out by offering to double his salary. :rolleyes:

[BigTip]

Yeah, OU forced Venables out by offering to double his salary. :rolleyes:
Sneaky but effective!

[BigTip]

I agree that it doesn't matter how good a coach you are if your DBs are standing around looking into the stands, scratchin' their nuts, and watching airplanes fly by, acting like seven year olds playing soccer. This is what I saw at the Baylor game, and this even after them getting burned repeatedly. "Turn around! Watch the line!!!!" Grrrr!

Maybe Mike will be able to light a fire under their butt that his predecessor could not. Hope springs eternal.

[ObiKaTony]

I don't think Bob forced him out. He simply decided he didn't want to share his job with Mike and moved on.

You are dreaming. V. had lost the defense, as the stats clearly identify with his last year being one of his worst. Bob is a good coach, and all those clamoring for him to fix the D that had been taking a nose-dive the last several years finally came to fruition; he hired Mike Stoops.

Now that Bob has hired Mike back, which has vindicated many of us who have been saying for years V is in over his head, our defense will finally start to look like a "good" defense. All those now equivocating to the position that nothing will change or that V. was a "good" defensive coordinator simply doesn't understand football or they are trying to "stay above the argument." It's black and white, V, wasn't that good, and Mike is supremely better. Stoops' action to let him go gracefully to Clemson (that is a step backwards) was very nice of him...

[ObiKaTony]

Yeah, OU forced Venables out by offering to double his salary. :rolleyes:

LOL! Naivety is such a nice attribute to have...

Everyone knows the defensive is actually going to have a pulse this year. For years people have been making excuses for V and FINALLY Stoops showed him the door. V going backwards, career wise to Clemson justifies the many more fans that wanted V out than any excuse those who wanted V to stay ever could.

Everyone that disputes this or the majority of fans that agree with my sentiment save this conversation, I am 100% confident the D is going to be BETTER this year…

[thunderfan]

LOL! Naivety is such a nice attribute to have...

Everyone knows the defensive is actually going to have a pulse this year. For years people have been making excuses for V and FINALLY Stoops showed him the door. V going backwards, career wise to Clemson justifies the many more fans that wanted V out than any excuse those who wanted V to stay ever could.

Everyone that disputes this or the majority of fans that agree with my sentiment save this conversation, I am 100% confident the D is going to be BETTER this year…

BE CAREFUL. Word I am getting is that if you don't drool on Deans balls you are in trouble.

[olevetonahill]

BE CAREFUL. Word I am getting is that if you don't drool on Deans balls you are in trouble.

Thats funny as hell
If ya cant give Dean hell ya cant give anyone

[8timechamps]

You are dreaming. V. had lost the defense, as the stats clearly identify with his last year being one of his worst. Bob is a good coach, and all those clamoring for him to fix the D that had been taking a nose-dive the last several years finally came to fruition; he hired Mike Stoops.

Now that Bob has hired Mike back, which has vindicated many of us who have been saying for years V is in over his head, our defense will finally start to look like a "good" defense. All those now equivocating to the position that nothing will change or that V. was a "good" defensive coordinator simply doesn't understand football or they are trying to "stay above the argument." It's black and white, V, wasn't that good, and Mike is supremely better. Stoops' action to let him go gracefully to Clemson (that is a step backwards) was very nice of him...


So, if we think BV was a good defensive coordinator, we "don't know football"? Wow. If BV wasn't a good coordinator, he wouldn't have been given a position at Clemson. I'm not saying BV was the best defensive coordinator to ever walk the sidelines in Norman, but I do think he was a good one. A lot has changed in the Big XII since Mike left, and BV was tasked with trying to stop the best offenses in the country week in and week out.

What I do think is that BV was trying to implement a scheme that is too advanced for college ball (and maybe too much for football period). We didn't lose to Tech or Baylor because we had inferior athletes, we lost because our players were caught out of position. That wasn't a trademark of BV defenses, but I'll agree that it happened on his watch, so he has to shoulder some of the blame.

Those of you that think just because Mike came back, the defense is going to be drastically better are in for an eye opener this fall. While I think Mike will eliminate the frequency that players are out of position (because of scheme), I am not expecting a different defense. For a defensive coordinator that "wasn't that good", he (BV) did pretty well while at Oklahoma.

You may want to back off the rhetoric a little, unless you have a crystal ball.

[8timechamps]

BE CAREFUL. Word I am getting is that if you don't drool on Deans balls you are in trouble.

If you think Dean is wrong, all you have to do is prove it. I don't think that's asking too much, or being unreasonable.

[C&CDean]

I'm kinda getting the feeling we've got some of the old anal warts trying to pop back up.

Go ahead on dillweeds. In the meantime, keep your wife outta my yard, and I'll keep my yard outta your wife.

And for this obiwankinobi guy; you really believe all that? Mike is so superior to V it ain't even close? If so, you're gonna be one of the leaders in the "my ****ing head just assploded cause xxx team just scored on us...again." I hope Mike can provide some kind of voodoo to keep our defense from sharking themselves to death - seriously. If he can, then I'll give him his props. Until then, he's just another one of Bob's brothers.

[ObiKaTony]

I'm kinda getting the feeling we've got some of the old anal warts trying to pop back up.

Go ahead on dillweeds. In the meantime, keep your wife outta my yard, and I'll keep my yard outta your wife.

And for this obiwankinobi guy; you really believe all that? Mike is so superior to V it ain't even close? If so, you're gonna be one of the leaders in the "my ****ing head just assploded cause xxx team just scored on us...again." I hope Mike can provide some kind of voodoo to keep our defense from sharking themselves to death - seriously. If he can, then I'll give him his props. Until then, he's just another one of Bob's brothers.


"If he can” Well, he has already done it once. Mike's defense ranked in the top 10, and some the top 5...

What you said not only sounds like 5th grade playground talk, it also made absolutely no sense. Of course, the only way it could have made sense is if you failed to realize Mike was once a defense coordinator to begin with, or you were unaware of the stats...

[ObiKaTony]

So, if we think BV was a good defensive coordinator, we "don't know football"? Wow. If BV wasn't a good coordinator, he wouldn't have been given a position at Clemson. I'm not saying BV was the best defensive coordinator to ever walk the sidelines in Norman, but I do think he was a good one. A lot has changed in the Big XII since Mike left, and BV was tasked with trying to stop the best offenses in the country week in and week out.

What I do think is that BV was trying to implement a scheme that is too advanced for college ball (and maybe too much for football period). We didn't lose to Tech or Baylor because we had inferior athletes, we lost because our players were caught out of position. That wasn't a trademark of BV defenses, but I'll agree that it happened on his watch, so he has to shoulder some of the blame.

Those of you that think just because Mike came back, the defense is going to be drastically better are in for an eye opener this fall. While I think Mike will eliminate the frequency that players are out of position (because of scheme), I am not expecting a different defense. For a defensive coordinator that "wasn't that good", he (BV) did pretty well while at Oklahoma.

You may want to back off the rhetoric a little, unless you have a crystal ball.

I am in pretty good position considering I already have 1 crystal ball that included 4 years of what a Mike Stoops defense looked like @ OU. We tackled, we were aggressive, we didn’t' run a delayed blitz so transparent my 89 grandmother could have seen it, and we were ranked in the top 10 nationally. “Well” is not being ranked 60th in most years, and below average within the league. His last year was a damn disaster giving up record numbers, and his players were totally lost on the field. Your point about a system that is too advanced is fine, but I don’t’ think it takes away from the fact that system was not working, period.

I hear all the time about how the offenses today vs. 10 years ago have changed and the 2 can’t be compared, and there is some legitimacy in that sentiment, however, IF you compare our defense to other defenses within the league MANY times under V we were below average in total d. That glaring stat makes the argument I illustrated by V. protectors just not believable.

V went to Clemson, CLEMSON! Most coaches under Bob went to be head coach. Long, Wilson, Mike ALL went be head coaches, and to tell you the truth they were not all that impressive. That being said, Venebles after 10 plus season took a step backwards after coaching @ OU where peers relative to his position/stature went to be head coaches. I find this not to be a coincidence but other schools realizing V was a sub-par coach.

[olevetonahill]

I am in pretty good position considering I already have 1 crystal ball that included 4 years of what a Mike Stoops defense looked like @ OU. We tackled, we were aggressive, we didn’t' run a delayed blitz so transparent my 89 grandmother could have seen it, and we were ranked in the top 10 nationally. “Well” is not being ranked 60th in most years, and below average within the league. His last year was a damn disaster giving up record numbers, and his players were totally lost on the field. Your point about a system that is too advanced is fine, but I don’t’ think it takes away from the fact that system was not working, period.

I hear all the time about how the offenses today vs. 10 years ago have changed and the 2 can’t be compared, and there is some legitimacy in that sentiment, however, IF you compare our defense to other defenses within the league MANY times under V we were below average in total d. That glaring stat makes the argument I illustrated by V. protectors just not believable.

V went to Clemson, CLEMSON! Most coaches under Bob went to be head coach. Long, Wilson, Mike ALL went be head coaches, and to tell you the truth they were not all that impressive. That being said, Venebles after 10 plus season took a step backwards after coaching @ OU where peers relative to his position/stature went to be head coaches. I find this not to be a coincidence but other schools realizing V was a sub-par coach.

You tell em .That Dean dont know shat. Bout time some one stood up to him
Yer my hero

[ObiKaTony]

You tell em .That Dean dont know shat. Bout time some one stood up to him
Yer my hero

Thank you, but I am not your hero, commonsense and logic are the culprits of heroism surrounding the realities of Mike Stoops vs. V and the conclusions that follow.

I don't have to tell Dean anything, I will just refer all legitimate accounts to the 15 plus schools that passed up V for the past 5 years. Not surprisingly, the number of head coaching interviews went DOWN as it became more apparent what kind of coach he was. The result being a step BACKWARDS, to a midgrade school in the ACC known as Clemson...

[olevetonahill]

Thank you, but I am not your hero, commonsense and logic are the culprits of the realities surrounding Mike Stoops vs. V…

I don't have to tell Dean anything, I will just refer all legitimate accounts to the 15 plus schools that passed up V for the past 5 years. Not surprisingly, the number of head coaching interviews went DOWN as it became more apparent what kind of coach he was. The result being a step BACKWARDS, to a midgrade school in the ACC known as Clemson...

Yer My hero, and I love you and you cant stop me .

[SCOUT]

Thank you, but I am not your hero, commonsense and logic are the culprits of heroism surrounding the realities of Mike Stoops vs. V and the conclusions that follow.

I don't have to tell Dean anything, I will just refer all legitimate accounts to the 15 plus schools that passed up V for the past 5 years. Not surprisingly, the number of head coaching interviews went DOWN as it became more apparent what kind of coach he was. The result being a step BACKWARDS, to a midgrade school in the ACC known as Clemson...
How many years was Mike successful as the OU D-Coordinator without Brent? Look, they are both talented coaches. You seem to have an ax to grind with Brent, and that's fine. He is no longer here.

[ObiKaTony]

How many years was Mike successful as the OU D-Coordinator without Brent? Look, they are both talented coaches. You seem to have an ax to grind with Brent, and that's fine. He is no longer here.

Brent V. is not a talented coach when comparing other coaches within the league; it's simply not true. His numbers reflect him being a sub-par coach who can't get a head coaching job. To suggest otherwise one has to ignore blatant and RELATIVE facts. Your assertion that Mike couldn’t have done the job w/o Brent during his first tenure @ OU was proven false. Mike left, and our D took a nose dive under Brent therefore eliminating that point all together.

My ax started chopping away when individuals compared the 2, or say that it's not going to make a difference this year. They are ignoring 4 years, and all the stats that declare that sentiment ignorant @ best. To compare them as equal is an insult to our CURRENT defensive coordinator. ..

[SouthFortySooner]

There were times I felt like Mike's ranting and raving kinda paralyzed his players rather than motivate them.

How often do we hear quarterbacks being praised because they can shake off a bad play. One of Mike's D-players makes a bad play and he foams at the mouth and spits all over them? Questionable motivator.

[SoonerofAlabama]

Fire BV!? Oh wait, never mind.

[ObiKaTony]

Fire BV!? Oh wait, never mind.

Bob already did, GOOD JOB BOB! He did it in a "great way"

[olevetonahill]

Bob already did, GOOD JOB BOB! He did it in a "great way"

Yup, That Bob is slick
He offered him 200K more than he had been makin then made sure that Clemson offered him 200K moren that
I wanta get fired by Bob

[ObiKaTony]

Yup, That Bob is slick
He offered him 200K more than he had been makin then made sure that Clemson offered him 200K moren that
I wanta get fired by Bob

That is a really good point, and blows up much of the argument, "He got offered a 200k raise" Meanwhile, Mike is on the sidelines midway through the season...

[olevetonahill]

That is a really good point, and blows up much of the argument, "He got offered a 200k raise" Meanwhile, Mike is on the sidelines midway through the season...

Preach it brother
Tell these arseholes the truth

[SCOUT]

Brent V. is not a talented coach when comparing other coaches within the league; it's simply not true. His numbers reflect him being a sub-par coach who can't get a head coaching job. To suggest otherwise one has to ignore blatant and RELATIVE facts. Your assertion that Mike couldn’t have done the job w/o Brent during his first tenure @ OU was proven false. Mike left, and our D took a nose dive under Brent therefore eliminating that point all together.

My ax started chopping away when individuals compared the 2, or say that it's not going to make a difference this year. They are ignoring 4 years, and all the stats that declare that sentiment ignorant @ best. To compare them as equal is an insult to our CURRENT defensive coordinator. ..
You view of facts versus opinions is only loosely based in reality.

For example, I made no assertion about either coaches success. The little "?" actually indicates and inquiry. Some people call it a question mark.

[olevetonahill]

You view of facts versus opinions is only loosely based in reality.

For example, I made no assertion about either coaches success. The little "?" actually indicates and inquiry. Some people call it a question mark.

Dont be talkin down to my Boy ObiKaHony
He knows whats going on and he gonna make sure that dick head Dean understands it

[SCOUT]

True enough Vet. How did we get along before he arrived?

[ObiKaTony]

You view of facts versus opinions is only loosely based in reality.

For example, I made no assertion about either coaches success. The little "?" actually indicates and inquiry. Some people call it a question mark.

Some people call '?' a question mark? Don't ALL people call that a question mark?

The facts just illustrated the reality our defense was getting thrashed last season, and most seasons V was our coordinator. I looked passed your inquiry to your point which is false, IF you look at the numbers which overtly, painfully, and unequivocally state Brent was sub-par and Mike is better. Which leads one to the answer if one is asked the '?' which is, “Is the defense going to be better.” Answer=Yes

[olevetonahill]

True enough Vet. How did we get along before he arrived?
Curly helped keep em in line but he cant be here much when skool startin up and stuff

[okie52]

http://www.hilaliya.com/noob_tn.jpg

Heh heh...you are a trouble maker.

[ObiKaTony]

What is really hilarious is that many of the V protectors were telling me off several months when I said Mike was undoubtedly going to be our next D-coach. Crystal ball, hater, etc all came lashing out @ me.

I guess my main frustration besides some ignoring reality is that sentiment hurt the football team. I truly believe that public pressure helped get rid of V, but it could have happened so much "Sooner" Bob is loyal to a fault and kept him around for a bit, and it has obviously taken its toll on our football program; we aint talking defense in Norman the past several years.

Thank God Mike is back, and I can't wait to be vindicated and laugh @ all the apologists and feel good people who "rise above the argument" when Mike brings the D back from below average to the top of the big 12 defensive rankings (most relative stat)

[olevetonahill]

What is really hilarious is that many of the V protectors were telling me off several months when I said Mike was undoubtedly going to be our next D-coach. Crystal ball, hater, etc all came lashing out @ me.

Thank God Mike is back, and I can't wait to be vindicated and laugh @ all the apologists and feel good people who "rise above the argument" when Mike brings the D back from below average to the top of the big 12 defensive rankings (most relative stat)

Thats what Im talking about Okiebammy er whatever , ( Im gettin a lil durnk so my spellinmay go to hell)
A lot of us thot just what yer sayin but we wuz to skeered of Dean to say much
Thats why yer my hero

[ObiKaTony]

Thats what Im talking about Okiebammy er whatever , ( Im gettin a lil durnk so my spellinmay go to hell)
A lot of us thot just what yer sayin but we wuz to skeered of Dean to say much
Thats why yer my hero

I don't think Dean will be mad, and if he is he shouldn't be. This is a time of celebration for sooner fans, V, and Mike. V is in a place where expectations are lower which obviously will suit his "complicated scheme' and we FINALLY get to see some real Sooner defense again. Boomer Sooner!

[picasso]

You are dreaming. V. had lost the defense, as the stats clearly identify with his last year being one of his worst. Bob is a good coach, and all those clamoring for him to fix the D that had been taking a nose-dive the last several years finally came to fruition; he hired Mike Stoops.

Now that Bob has hired Mike back, which has vindicated many of us who have been saying for years V is in over his head, our defense will finally start to look like a "good" defense. All those now equivocating to the position that nothing will change or that V. was a "good" defensive coordinator simply doesn't understand football or they are trying to "stay above the argument." It's black and white, V, wasn't that good, and Mike is supremely better. Stoops' action to let him go gracefully to Clemson (that is a step backwards) was very nice of him...
What the **** am I dreaming about? Mike himself said that there was no easy solution to his rejoining the staff. I'm quite happy myself that he's back but I'm also not delusional in the fact that Brent V. had some stellar games in the past few years. 2009 RRS is one of them.
I'll keep on dreamin'. mmm yeah

[olevetonahill]

I don't think Dean will be mad, and if he is he shouldn't be. This is a time of celebration for sooner fans, V, and Mike. V is in a place where expectations are lower which obviously will suit his "complicated scheme' and we FINALLY get to see some real Sooner defense again. Boomer Sooner!

He whooped my azz once at a Tail gate
I aint crossin him ever again

[ObiKaTony]

What the **** am I dreaming about? Mike himself said that there was no easy solution to his rejoining the staff. I'm quite happy myself that he's back but I'm also not delusional in the fact that Brent V. had some stellar games in the past few years. 2009 RRS is one of them.
I'll keep on dreamin'. mmm yeah

Stellar games don't equal stellar seasons...

This last year he had a good game plan against Texas (they didn't have a qb), followed up by several not so stellar games one of which included the most yards EVER given up by an OU defense.

During his tenure total Defense average was in the upper 50's nationally, and he finished BELOW other big 12 teams in total defense most years when he was d-cord. You going back to 2009 in 2012 to cherry pick a stellar game makes my point all the more clear, so I want to thank you for doing so...

[Seamus]

but we wuz to skeered of Dean to say much


I'm getting the impression Dean is a big fan of Putin's views on freedom of expression. Those girls from Poosey Riot deserved two years for speaking out ...

[SCOUT]

Some people call '?' a question mark? Don't ALL people call that a question mark?

The facts just illustrated the reality our defense was getting thrashed last season, and most seasons V was our coordinator. I looked passed your inquiry to your point which is false, IF you look at the numbers which overtly, painfully, and unequivocally state Brent was sub-par and Mike is better. Which leads one to the answer if one is asked the '?' which is, “Is the defense going to be better.” Answer=Yes
In other words, you assigned an opinion to me without me having stated that opinion. You see, a question isn't a statement. It is an inquiry. An inquiry can not have point, as it is not a statement. We can continue this line of conversation if it is still vague.

Your use of the word "Fact" while clearly stating opinions also causes me to question your comprehension. Ranking components of a football team is vague at best. When you imply (there is a difference) that Brent was terrible, what measure are you using? Is it yards, points, big plays, etc.

The funny thing is that I am glad Brent is gone and that Mike is back. You are just so abrasive that I can't help but point out your lunacy.

[Salt City Sooner]

Stellar games don't equal stellar seasons...

This last year he had a good game plan against Texas (they didn't have a qb), followed up by several not so stellar games one of which included the most yards EVER given up by an OU defense.

During his tenure total Defense average was in the upper 50's nationally, and he finished BELOW other big 12 teams in total defense most years when he was d-cord. You going back to 2009 in 2012 to cherry pick a stellar game makes my point all the more clear, so I want to thank you for doing so...

Flat out wrong, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[agoo758]

Show me some stats proving mike is better. You can't. And it seems we have another ****tard itching for a bitch slap.

Well, considering that we have pretty much gone from the tens in the Stoops Era, to the 50's and 60's under BV. I can understand why some believe that.

Personally, I think that's possibiliy a result from a changing in offensive style throughout the conference, but to say that there are no stats is ridiculous.

[trpltongue]

Well, considering that we have pretty much gone from the tens in the Stoops Era, to the 50's and 60's under BV. I can understand why some believe that.

Personally, I think that's possibiliy a result from a changing in offensive style throughout the conference, but to say that there are no stats is ridiculous.

Not that it really matters, but I've looked at the actual stats and we are definitely dropping in national Total Defensive ranking, but the results in the Big 12 are mixed. Either 1st or 3rd. If anything you could say we are trending down the last 2 years in the Big 12 but that's a pretty fine line to draw.

National Ranking:


2002

10



2003

3



2004

13



2005

13



2006

16



2007

26



2008

68



2009

8



2010

53



2011

55





Big 12 Ranking (big12 site only has conference stats through 2005 and I'm not going back game by game to assemble them):



2005

1



2006

1



2007

3



2008

1



2009

1



2010

3



2011

3

[Seamus]

National Ranking:


2002

10



2003

3



2004

13



2005

13



2006

16



2007

26



2008

68



2009

8



2010

53



2011

55





[/TABLE]

I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but this looks like an argument-winner to me.

[thunderfan]

So Dean if someone thinks different than you then you are gonne b@tch slap them?

I've heard you are kinda weak in the mind but holy smokes.

[StoopTroup]

I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but this looks like an argument-winner to me.

Yet you toss the Big XII Conference Stat in the garbage even though most of our games are with Big XII Teams. It is entirely possible that the Other chart you wave boldly is a result of other teams in other Conferences not being able to score 60 points per game and their defenses look fantastic because of those 3-0 wins they had?

Now we know that not every team that finished ahead of OU in the first table aren't all like that but there are enough of the 112 Teams to make OU's percentages in 2007, 2009 and 2010 look bad. Thing is....not all of them posted wins against us and for me.....College Football is about wins. Of all those teams on your charts...how many of them had a 43-12 Win/Loss Record from 2007-2010?

Dont drink out of those glasses on the sink unless you wash them in hot water and soap.

[cleller]

Being an OU support in general, and a Mike Stoops supporter in particular, I hope over the next few seasons Mike can settle this argument once and for all.

The possibility we are leaving out is that the two of them together was the magic formula.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

If you think Dean is wrong, all you have to do is prove it. I don't think that's asking too much, or being unreasonable.

are you being sarcastic, or did you miss the post where Dean called him a @#*tard?

[C&CDean]

I call a spade a spade...what can I say?

For the record, I hope our D under Mike makes Venable's defenses of the last decade look like the little Giants. I'll be the first to celebrate and congratulate. However, I ain't holding my breath. Offenses have evolved so dramatically it's much more difficult now for defenses to keep an O down. Also, Venables was there during Mike's "reign of terror." It wasn't just Mike.

I hope that Mike proves ol' obi right. I pray that he does. And if he does, there's gonna have to be a few little things that must happen: Wort can't get hurt. No more stupidity off the field. No injuries to the D-line. A couple new players are gonna have to step up. If any of these things get buggared up then we're ****ed.

[C&CDean]

So Dean if someone thinks different than you then you are gonne b@tch slap them?

I've heard you are kinda weak in the mind but holy smokes.

Let's see, you've got a total of 5 posts and at least 3 of them are about me. You must wanna blow me or something? I'd suggest you post about something other than me. I'm boring, and I don't need a BJ.

[setem]

Sheesh...I just wanna watch the Sooners play some football! I can break it down with the best of them but you know what is really fun? Drinking some brew, smoking some meat(no homo) and watching OUr boys kick ***. Maaaaaybe we give Mike a few games before we decide to crown him or kill him?

I DRIVE A HONDA PILOT!!!

[picasso]

Stellar games don't equal stellar seasons...

This last year he had a good game plan against Texas (they didn't have a qb), followed up by several not so stellar games one of which included the most yards EVER given up by an OU defense.

During his tenure total Defense average was in the upper 50's nationally, and he finished BELOW other big 12 teams in total defense most years when he was d-cord. You going back to 2009 in 2012 to cherry pick a stellar game makes my point all the more clear, so I want to thank you for doing so...
Cherry picking is a lost art. heh. Sorry I didn't follow your memo on making a point about a defensive coach scheming to help our team beat a better opponent. Ala the cherry picked RRS game of 2009.

[Seamus]

Let's see, you've got a total of 5 posts and at least 3 of them are about me. You must wanna blow me or something? I'd suggest you post about something other than me. I'm boring, and I don't need a BJ.

I've read your posts.

You definitely need a BJ. And no, I'm not applying for the job.

Everyone gets that you're in power. You don't need to constantly remind us.

[KantoSooner]

Any man who doesn't admit to being open to the concept of a BJ is lying.

[C&CDean]

Sigh. I'm lying. And I wasn't reminding anyone who is in power seamus. I was explaining to the dillweed to post about something other than me. Why is that hard?

[8timechamps]

I am in pretty good position considering I already have 1 crystal ball that included 4 years of what a Mike Stoops defense looked like @ OU. We tackled, we were aggressive, we didn’t' run a delayed blitz so transparent my 89 grandmother could have seen it, and we were ranked in the top 10 nationally. “Well” is not being ranked 60th in most years, and below average within the league. His last year was a damn disaster giving up record numbers, and his players were totally lost on the field. Your point about a system that is too advanced is fine, but I don’t’ think it takes away from the fact that system was not working, period.

This is just untrue. Since this is your basis, it kinda ruins your whole argument. Let's take a look at the real FACTS:

Team Defense National Rank (2004-2011)
2011: 55
2010: 53
2009: 8
2008: 68
2007: 26
2006: 16
2005: 13
2004: 13

Average Rank since 2004: 31 (soooo close to 60th!)

Team Defense Conference Rank (2004-2011)
2011: 2
2010: 4
2009: 3
2008: 3
2007: 2
2006: 1
2005: 3
2004: 1

Average Rank since 2004: 2.3 (so really, that's not even close to being "below average in the league")



I hear all the time about how the offenses today vs. 10 years ago have changed and the 2 can’t be compared, and there is some legitimacy in that sentiment, however, IF you compare our defense to other defenses within the league MANY times under V we were below average in total d. That glaring stat makes the argument I illustrated by V. protectors just not believable.

I did compare them, and they were "below average" to the other league's defenses exactly ZERO times. Where's the "glaring stat"?



V went to Clemson, CLEMSON! Most coaches under Bob went to be head coach. Long, Wilson, Mike ALL went be head coaches, and to tell you the truth they were not all that impressive. That being said, Venebles after 10 plus season took a step backwards after coaching @ OU where peers relative to his position/stature went to be head coaches. I find this not to be a coincidence but other schools realizing V was a sub-par coach.

Whether Brent went to Clemson in his own accord, or he was asked to leave is all speculation. Since neither of us know for sure, there's really no point in arguing this.

In the end, BV was a good (better than average, and better than most in the conference) defensive coordinator. The more I see the statistics, the more I think you are just grinding an ax. Feel free to add your back-up argument, but there's really no point in my continuing, since you apparently don't really know what you're talking about.

[SapulpaSooner]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/540190_507477905945923_1057058238_n.jpg

That is All i have to say

[Seamus]

Sigh. I'm lying. And I wasn't reminding anyone who is in power seamus. I was explaining to the dillweed to post about something other than me. Why is that hard?

Actually, that's fair. I think you wield the hammer like Thor with a hangover, but that's your prerogative.

I apologize for jumping into a fight that I really don't have a dog in.

[agoo758]

[QUOTE=C&CDean;3498764]I call a spade a spade...what can I say?

Offenses have evolved so dramatically it's much more difficult now for defenses to keep an O down. [QUOTE]


That's a fair point, which is why I am cautiously optimistic.

Also, Arizona's defenses weren't very good at all during Mike's tenure there, granted he wasn't the DC.

If there is any improvement, I expect it to be by year two, like the first time around.

[trpltongue]

This is just untrue. Since this is your basis, it kinda ruins your whole argument. Let's take a look at the real FACTS:

Team Defense Conference Rank (2004-2011)
2011: 2
2010: 4
2009: 3
2008: 3
2007: 2
2006: 1
2005: 3
2004: 1



Just curious but where did you get these conference rankings because they don't match up with the info provided by the big 12 here:

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=1514232

Not trying to be a dick, I'm just looking for other sources of stats and had a hard time finding in-conference stats outside of the Big12 webpage.

[MamaMia]

So, which is it? trpltongue, do you have a link to those stats?



Stellar games don't equal stellar seasons...

This last year he had a good game plan against Texas (they didn't have a qb), followed up by several not so stellar games one of which included the most yards EVER given up by an OU defense.

During his tenure total Defense average was in the upper 50's nationally, and he finished BELOW other big 12 teams in total defense most years when he was d-cord. You going back to 2009 in 2012 to cherry pick a stellar game makes my point all the more clear, so I want to thank you for doing so...






Big 12 Ranking (big12 site only has conference stats through 2005 and I'm not going back game by game to assemble them):



2005

1



2006

1



2007

3



2008

1



2009

1



2010

3



2011

3

[trpltongue]

I posted the link to those stats from the big 12 webpage on the previous post ;)

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=1514232

You have to click on "Conference Statistics", then "Team Leaders", and scroll down to "Total Defense"

You also have to do it year by year so it's a little tedious, but it's all there.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Note: All special teams and defensive scores were excluded from the points scored by the opposition tally.

----------------------------------------------------------

Mike Stoops' Defensive National Award Winners in 5 years of coaching at Oklahoma:

2003: Tommie Harris (Lombardi)

2003: Teddy Lehman (Butkus)

2001: Rocky Calmus (Butkus)

2003: Derrick Strait (Nagurski and Thorpe)

2001: Roy Williams (Nagurski and Thorpe)


Brent Venables Defensive National Award Winners in 8 years:

Still waiting.

------------------------------------------------

30+ point games in the Mike Stoops era (9 games):

- 4 of those 9 games occurred in Bob Stoops debut season of 1999

- 1 of the games (Kansas St. in the Big 12 title game), Mike Stoops was already packing his bags to go to Arizona

- 2 of those games were against Kansas St. in which Snyder knew Oklahoma's defensive scheme and tendencies like a book for obvious reasons.

- 1 other was the dreaded mobile QB in Reggie McNeal.

--------------------------------------------------

300+ passing yard games allowed in the Mike Stoops era (3 games)

- 2 of those 3 games occurred in Bob Stoops debut season of 1999

--------------------------------------------------

200+ rushing yard games allowed in the Mike Stoops era (2 games):

- Again, one was against Kansas St. in the Big 12 title game when he was in the middle of packing his bags. Another mobile QB situation here to with El Roberson.

- The other was a dazzling performance by Brad Smith, a very mobile QB that was also a very good passer.

---------------------------------------------------

So now we have Brent Venables in 8 years in coaching at Oklahoma:

2011: Most embarrasing OU loss to OSU in history: 44-10
2011: OU's first loss to Baylor in history.
2011: Most yards given up in OU football history: 616 total yards
2011: OU's nation's leading winning streak ended to a horrible Texas Tech team.
2010: Texas Tech's most lop-sided win over Oklahoma ever.
2005: Yet another home winning streak broken to the almighty historical powerhouse of TCU (not his fault, but...)
2005: Most embarrasing OU loss to Texas in history.
2004: Most embarrasing OU bowl loss in history to USC.

2004: Matt Leinart throws for an Orange Bowl record 5 TDs.

-----------------------------------------------------------

400+ yard passing games in the Brent Venables era (4 games)

300+ yard passing games in the Brent Venables era (20 games)

300+ rushing yard games in the Brent Venables era (2 games)

200+ rushing yards games in the Brent Venables era (4 games)

50+ point games in the Brent Venables era (1 games)

40+ point games in the Brent Venables era (5 games)

30+ point games in the Brent Venables era (18 games)

----------------------------------------------



Final Comparison:

30+ point games in Mike Stoops era: 9 (again, almost half of those were in Bob Stoops' debut year)

30+ point games in Brent Venables era: 18

Winner: Mike Stoops

-----------------------------------------------

300+ yard passing games in Mike Stoops era: 3

300+ yard passing games in Brent Venables era: 20

Winner: Mike Stoops

-----------------------------------------------

200+ rushing yard games in Mike Stoops era: 2

200+ rushing yard games in Brent Venables era: 4

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

National award winners in Mike Stoops era: 5

National award winners in Brent Venables era: 0

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

Embarrassing losses in Mike Stoops era: 3* (* is counting KSU game)

Embarrasing losses in Brent Venables era: Too many.

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

Even when the conference was more run orientated, Mike Stoops' defenses never gave up over 300 rushing yards. It happened twice in the Brent Venables era when teams focused more on the pass.

While more run orientated at the time, teams never threw for over 400 yards on a Mike Stoops defense, but this occurred 4 times during the Brent Venables era.

Additionally, Texas Tech was already passing prolifically when Mike Leach arrived there and they were only getting about 250 passing yards per game against Oklahoma. Since then, Texas Tech has regularly been going over 300 yards per game and sometimes way over that.

Mike Stoops never gave up over 40 offensive points while it happened 6 times in the Brent Venables era.

Regardless of Big 12 offenses changing over the years and being more potent, Brent Venables DID show they can be handled quite well in the 2009 season sans the Texas Tech game where the Sooner defense finally quit for all intents and purposes because of the Sooner offense continuously doing them no favors throughout the season. The problem was, Brent Venables required a dominant defensive tackle in McCoy for that to happen. Mike Stoops is much better at scheming around limitations much as he showed in the 2000 season with a very hard working, but pedestrian front four.

[C&CDean]

Uh, Venables was there too. That's what kinda kills the Stoops > Venables argument. In fact, I believe 3 of those award-winning players were directly position coached by Venables. No?

I hope Mike makes a huge difference. I'm just no as confident as some are obviously.

[85sooners]

Mike is the man

[GameWarden]

By inviting Mike to return Bob forced Venables out. Talk about a step down??? Clemson is a step down but not as obvious as being demoted from D coordinator to linebackers coach.

New Math for most OU fans:

Mike Stoops = more yelling and screaming = better defense.

I don't think there is any doubt about the statistics: Mike wins hands down. But I think you have to factor in that teams in the Big XII are offensive juggernauts compared to most SEC teams. Recruiting is different under BV than it was under Mike.

As for the award winners, I was wondering about this question myself. Interesting that BV hasn't had a single kid win one. I guess it goes back to what Barry Switzer said, 'great players make for great coaches'. And I would add that great recruiters win National Championships.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Uh, Venables was there too. That's what kinda kills the Stoops > Venables argument. In fact, I believe 3 of those award-winning players were directly position coached by Venables. No?

I hope Mike makes a huge difference. I'm just no as confident as some are obviously.

You can "uh" all you want do, but Mike Stoops was the defensive play-caller at that time and the Sooner defensive wheels fell of after he left, so that kind of kills the killing of the Stoops > Venables argument. If those 3 award-winning players were directly position coached by Venables (and I know they were, but thanks anyway), why was that success never replicated again after Mike Stoops left?

Regardless of that, it's real simple, Mike understands that you use a true DB at the nickel position and not a true linebacker and that will be very revealing just how big of a difference that makes this season when Oklahoma is no longer getting roasted over the middle again and again as has been the case since the 2004 season when Brent Venables took over. Not to mention the other position changes he made with Jefferson and Colvin. Brent was waaaaaay too focused on getting his linebackers on the field regardless of the scenario and the Sooners paid dearly.

You obviously didn't look at the numbers. It's a no contest that the Sooner defense fell apart after Mike Stoops left and he could handle Texas Tech's passing game after they were already passing well, something that Brent Venables has largely failed to do outside of the outstanding 2008 performance.

Brent Venables was and is a good defensive coordinator, but he wasn't good enough for a program like Oklahoma. He will most assuredly improve Clemson's defense, but at the same time, Mike Stoops will most assuredly improve Oklahoma's defense. What happened last year was an absolute atrocity in terms of what a Sooner defense should be all about.

[ObiKaTony]

Note: All special teams and defensive scores were excluded from the points scored by the opposition tally.

----------------------------------------------------------

Mike Stoops' Defensive National Award Winners in 5 years of coaching at Oklahoma:

2003: Tommie Harris (Lombardi)

2003: Teddy Lehman (Butkus)

2001: Rocky Calmus (Butkus)

2003: Derrick Strait (Nagurski and Thorpe)

2001: Roy Williams (Nagurski and Thorpe)


Brent Venables Defensive National Award Winners in 8 years:

Still waiting.

------------------------------------------------

30+ point games in the Mike Stoops era (9 games):

- 4 of those 9 games occurred in Bob Stoops debut season of 1999

- 1 of the games (Kansas St. in the Big 12 title game), Mike Stoops was already packing his bags to go to Arizona

- 2 of those games were against Kansas St. in which Snyder knew Oklahoma's defensive scheme and tendencies like a book for obvious reasons.

- 1 other was the dreaded mobile QB in Reggie McNeal.

--------------------------------------------------

300+ passing yard games allowed in the Mike Stoops era (3 games)

- 2 of those 3 games occurred in Bob Stoops debut season of 1999

--------------------------------------------------

200+ rushing yard games allowed in the Mike Stoops era (2 games):

- Again, one was against Kansas St. in the Big 12 title game when he was in the middle of packing his bags. Another mobile QB situation here to with El Roberson.

- The other was a dazzling performance by Brad Smith, a very mobile QB that was also a very good passer.

---------------------------------------------------

So now we have Brent Venables in 8 years in coaching at Oklahoma:

2011: Most embarrasing OU loss to OSU in history: 44-10
2011: OU's first loss to Baylor in history.
2011: Most yards given up in OU football history: 616 total yards
2011: OU's nation's leading winning streak ended to a horrible Texas Tech team.
2010: Texas Tech's most lop-sided win over Oklahoma ever.
2005: Yet another home winning streak broken to the almighty historical powerhouse of TCU (not his fault, but...)
2005: Most embarrasing OU loss to Texas in history.
2004: Most embarrasing OU bowl loss in history to USC.

2004: Matt Leinart throws for an Orange Bowl record 5 TDs.

-----------------------------------------------------------

400+ yard passing games in the Brent Venables era (4 games)

300+ yard passing games in the Brent Venables era (20 games)

300+ rushing yard games in the Brent Venables era (2 games)

200+ rushing yards games in the Brent Venables era (4 games)

50+ point games in the Brent Venables era (1 games)

40+ point games in the Brent Venables era (5 games)

30+ point games in the Brent Venables era (18 games)

----------------------------------------------



Final Comparison:

30+ point games in Mike Stoops era: 9 (again, almost half of those were in Bob Stoops' debut year)

30+ point games in Brent Venables era: 18

Winner: Mike Stoops

-----------------------------------------------

300+ yard passing games in Mike Stoops era: 3

300+ yard passing games in Brent Venables era: 20

Winner: Mike Stoops

-----------------------------------------------

200+ rushing yard games in Mike Stoops era: 2

200+ rushing yard games in Brent Venables era: 4

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

National award winners in Mike Stoops era: 5

National award winners in Brent Venables era: 0

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

Embarrassing losses in Mike Stoops era: 3* (* is counting KSU game)

Embarrasing losses in Brent Venables era: Too many.

Winner: Mike Stoops

------------------------------------------------

Even when the conference was more run orientated, Mike Stoops' defenses never gave up over 300 rushing yards. It happened twice in the Brent Venables era when teams focused more on the pass.

While more run orientated at the time, teams never threw for over 400 yards on a Mike Stoops defense, but this occurred 4 times during the Brent Venables era.

Additionally, Texas Tech was already passing prolifically when Mike Leach arrived there and they were only getting about 250 passing yards per game against Oklahoma. Since then, Texas Tech has regularly been going over 300 yards per game and sometimes way over that.

Mike Stoops never gave up over 40 offensive points while it happened 6 times in the Brent Venables era.

Regardless of Big 12 offenses changing over the years and being more potent, Brent Venables DID show they can be handled quite well in the 2009 season sans the Texas Tech game where the Sooner defense finally quit for all intents and purposes because of the Sooner offense continuously doing them no favors throughout the season. The problem was, Brent Venables required a dominant defensive tackle in McCoy for that to happen. Mike Stoops is much better at scheming around limitations much as he showed in the 2000 season with a very hard working, but pedestrian front four.

That is some of the best analysis i have ever read on this board. I couldn’t have said it any better. It's is so blatantly obvious Mike was better, yet some argue despite the obvious truth. Damn that was a good post, and it should END right there. Of course, you will have some idiot say, "Yeah, well Brent was there” that response was blown up when mike left and the defense took a nose dive relative to the play once before. What would it take for morons who defended Brent to reach the conclusion that Mike was better; the defense SUCKED last year, period…

We all will be vindicated when Mike kicks butt on the field, and we see obvious defensive changes...

[thecrimsoncrusader]

By inviting Mike to return Bob forced Venables out. Talk about a step down??? Clemson is a step down but not as obvious as being demoted from D coordinator to linebackers coach.

New Math for most OU fans:

Mike Stoops = more yelling and screaming = better defense.

I don't think there is any doubt about the statistics: Mike wins hands down. But I think you have to factor in that teams in the Big XII are offensive juggernauts compared to most SEC teams. Recruiting is different under BV than it was under Mike.

As for the award winners, I was wondering about this question myself. Interesting that BV hasn't had a single kid win one. I guess it goes back to what Barry Switzer said, 'great players make for great coaches'. And I would add that great recruiters win National Championships.

At least you didn't say "all". :beguiled: The defense won't be better because of Mike yelling more, it will be better because he does a better job of putting players in a better position to succeed and understands that you don't trot out 3 linebackers against a 4 wide receiver set just because you love linebackers!!! Make no mistake, Brent knows more than all of us put together when it comes to coaching defenses, but it's a bit concerning that almost all of us were clamoring for Ryan Reynolds to be pulled on 3rd down situations due to his hack of speed from his knee injury in 2008 (and before) and Venables finally did that (but not before) in the 2009 OU/TX game and Colt and Shipley both had about the worst games in their talented careers. He adjusted too slow to such needs.

If Brent was getting the job done, Bob would have never brought Mike back, because it would most assuredly cause issues regardless of their personal relationships. Outside of Martinez, Brent was the closest Bob has been to firing a Sooner staffer, because it most assuredly was a demotion that would lead to Brent taking a job elsewhere, assuming the situation was right and Clemson is a good job for Brent to further develop his career.

[C&CDean]

I give up. Mike is so superior that it's not even close. How you guys have come up with this is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Crack?

For the final time, I hope Mike's D is stellar. I PRAY it is.

However, all you guys already claiming such a vast improvement - before a single down has been played - does not bode well for many of your psyches this year. We give up a bunch of points to somebody and you'll all be the ones looking for the bridge to jump off of. Me? I'm gonna take it nice and slow. I don't need the stress of expecting yet another vastly improved season only to see our hopes come crashing down around us - again. Why do you do this to yourselves?

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I give up. Mike is so superior that it's not even close. How you guys have come up with this is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Crack?

For the final time, I hope Mike's D is stellar. I PRAY it is.

However, all you guys already claiming such a vast improvement - before a single down has been played - does not bode well for many of your psyches this year. We give up a bunch of points to somebody and you'll all be the ones looking for the bridge to jump off of. Me? I'm gonna take it nice and slow. I don't need the stress of expecting yet another vastly improved season only to see our hopes come crashing down around us - again. Why do you do this to yourselves?

Because torture is fun! :beguiled: I have no illusions that Mike Stoops is perfect. I remember the 2002 OSU (Woods and Bajema) and ATM games (Reggie McNeal) quite too vividly. The thing is, that's two games that were on the road and in the same season. Yes, they were epic failures, but they did occur in the same season and epic failures were all too common during the Brent Venables defensive play-calling regime.

[ObiKaTony]

I give up. Mike is so superior that it's not even close. How you guys have come up with this is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Crack?

For the final time, I hope Mike's D is stellar. I PRAY it is.

However, all you guys already claiming such a vast improvement - before a single down has been played - does not bode well for many of your psyches this year. We give up a bunch of points to somebody and you'll all be the ones looking for the bridge to jump off of. Me? I'm gonna take it nice and slow. I don't need the stress of expecting yet another vastly improved season only to see our hopes come crashing down around us - again. Why do you do this to yourselves?

Just recite the prayers you were saying @ night in 99, it worked for several years lol! I am supremely confident that Mike will VASTLY improve our defense, and it will take some time to fix the damage done by our previous coach who moved backwards to Clemson; however, Mike will get the job done, because he has DONE IT before.

I would give up now, because you can't win, not because you can’t make a point, it’s due to the point you are trying to make is totally wrong. Remember ObiKaTony this season, I’ll be asking for an apology come mid-season for myself and others who have been speaking the truth; which is V. was in over his head…

[C&CDean]

Just recite the prayers you were saying @ night in 99, it worked for several years lol! I am supremely confident that Mike will VASTLY improve our defense, and it will take some time to fix the damage done by our previous coach who moved backwards to Clemson; however, Mike will get the job done, because he has DONE IT before.

I would give up now, because you can't win, not because you can’t make a point, it’s due to the point you are trying to make is totally wrong. Remember ObiKaTony this season, I’ll be asking for an apology come mid-season for myself and others who have been speaking the truth; which is V. was in over his head…

pfffft. A whole lot of steaming horse**** right there. It's not about who's right or who's wrong (wtf is wrong with you anyhow?). It's about winning some ****ing football games. Sheez. Mike helped win a NC more than a decade ago and all of a sudden we're all over it? Please share whatever it is you're on.

[thunderfan]

Mikes defenses gave up some big games fo sho but one thing that was never in doubt. When that defense was on the field they were there to punish. Thats intimidating for many opponents.

They had swagger
They had moxy

any other catchy words I have left out?

[PLaw]

"Swagger" is word that needs to be eliminated from our vocabulary. It's tired, overused, and infers a cocky image regardless if there are actions to support it.

These kids need to let their play do their talking. Hopefully, that will grow into a nasty, hard nosed confidence.

BOOMER

[C&CDean]

Mikes defenses gave up some big games fo sho but one thing that was never in doubt. When that defense was on the field they were there to punish. Thats intimidating for many opponents.

They had swagger
They had moxy

any other catchy words I have left out?

Chutzpa. It.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I would say the 2001 loss to osu was more embarassing than the 2011 one...At home, they had won 3 games, a backup quarterback played most of the game for them..

Its interesting how the facts can be ignored to make it sound bad..First loss to Baylor..They just happen to have a Heisman trophy winning all world athlete playing the quarterback position..

The offensive skill of the big12 the last 8 years isn't really comparable to the first few years...the gradual shift between the SEC(high octane offense, average defenses) and the big 12 that occurred in the early 2000s has more to do with a lot of this stuff than coaches or coordinators..It's more about the players.

[C&CDean]

I would say the 2001 loss to osu was more embarassing than the 2011 one...At home, they had won 3 games, a backup quarterback played most of the game for them..

Its interesting how the facts can be ignored to make it sound bad..First loss to Baylor..They just happen to have a Heisman trophy winning all world athlete playing the quarterback position..

The offensive skill of the big12 the last 8 years isn't really comparable to the first few years...the gradual shift between the SEC(high octane offense, average defenses) and the big 12 that occurred in the early 2000s has more to do with a lot of this stuff than coaches or coordinators..It's more about the players.

Ah, sanity. I heart you.

[Mississippi Sooner]

This is about to turn ghey, isn't it?

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I would say the 2001 loss to osu was more embarassing than the 2011 one...At home, they had won 3 games, a backup quarterback played most of the game for them..

Its interesting how the facts can be ignored to make it sound bad..First loss to Baylor..They just happen to have a Heisman trophy winning all world athlete playing the quarterback position..

The offensive skill of the big12 the last 8 years isn't really comparable to the first few years...the gradual shift between the SEC(high octane offense, average defenses) and the big 12 that occurred in the early 2000s has more to do with a lot of this stuff than coaches or coordinators..It's more about the players.

I get what you are saying from the level of embarrasment, but the Sooners getting blown out isn't fun either. Perhaps it softens the blow because it took OSU's best team ever to beat a not so special 10-3 Oklahoma team? Not sure.

I think you were just alluding to the embarrasment level and not the defensive performance of the 2001 game as it is hard to fault the defense in that 2001 OSU game. OSU only had one TD and that was on a spectacular well-defended catch (they did have 200+ passing yards that didn't go anywhere outside of that TD though) and the Sooner offense led by a broken shouldered Nate Hybl and a young and injury plagued offense line didn't do squat in that game. The Sooners had like 30 carries in that game for 0 yards. Ugh. It was definitely an embarrassing and painful loss given OSU wasn't any good and it being a home game. Not pleasant.

Texas Tech was already winging the football and Mike Stoops handle that with ease sans the 1999 debut season with Kliff Kingsbury and Spike Dykes announcing his retirement, but that has clearly not been the case with Brent Venables outside of a year or two. It can be debated obviously whether Mike can get the job done or not, but it doesn't seem to be debatable at least to me that Brent Venables was getting the job done. Best Baylor team in history or not, giving up a school record 616 yards should of never happened. And while the Sooner offense has been just as guilty particularly in bowl games (5 turnovers against USC, 4 or 5 against Boise St., etc.), the Sooner defense certainly didn't respond well to adversity in those games under Brent Venables.

And if it is about the players, Brent Venables hasn't done a good job there either. And while it's heresy to wonder about Coach Shipp, outside of McCoy, the Sooner DTs have been a lot to be desired of late. Hopefully, Jordan Phillips can come to the rescue.

And as far as Heisman winners, I remember Heisman candidates getting their hopes ruined by Mike Stoops defenses.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Should the defensive numbers be this year? Probably so since 3(including aTM) conference quarterbacks were taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft..

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I get what you are saying from the level of embarrasment, but the Sooners getting blown out isn't fun either. Perhaps it softens the blow because it took OSU's best team ever to beat a not so special 10-3 Oklahoma team? Not sure.

I think you were just alluding to the embarrasment level and not the defensive performance of the 2001 game as it is hard to fault the defense in that 2001 OSU game. OSU only had one TD and that was on a spectacular well-defended catch (they did have 200+ passing yards that didn't go anywhere outside of that TD though) and the Sooner offense led by a broken shouldered Nate Hybl and a young and injury plagued offense line didn't do squat in that game. The Sooners had like 30 carries in that game for 0 yards. Ugh. It was definitely an embarrassing and painful loss given OSU wasn't any good and it being a home game. Not pleasant.

Texas Tech was already winging the football and Mike Stoops handle that with ease sans the 1999 debut season with Kliff Kingsbury and Spike Dykes announcing his retirement, but that has clearly not been the case with Brent Venables outside of a year or two. It can be debated obviously whether Mike can get the job done or not, but it doesn't seem to be debatable at least to me that Brent Venables was getting the job done. Best Baylor team in history or not, giving up a school record 616 yards should of never happened. And while the Sooner offense has been just as guilty particularly in bowl games (5 turnovers against USC, 4 or 5 against Boise St., etc.), the Sooner defense certainly didn't respond well to adversity in those games under Brent Venables.

And if it is about the players, Brent Venables hasn't done a good job there either. And it's heresy to wonder about Coach Shipp, outside of McCoy, the Sooner DT have been a lot to be desired of late. Hopefully, Jordan Phillips can come to the rescue.

If you want to go sheer embarassed, then I was more embarassed by the 2002 loss to osu because they didn't have anything except a baseball player at quarterback and a Woods brother who just ran down the field..The final score looked prettier, but that game was awful..

[stoops the eternal pimp]

DTs' in this conference haven't been that good since the early days..Why would a DT want to come to the big12 when they can go to the SEC and show skills and develop playing against very "normal" offenses? I don't want to do it all over again, but the SEC has been scoring the top DT,DEs, and DBs while the rest of us fight for what's left over...

What we need is the spread offense bug to bite the SEC again.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

If you want to go sheer embarassed, then I was more embarassed by the 2002 loss to osu because they didn't have anything except a baseball player at quarterback and a Woods brother who just ran down the field..The final score looked prettier, but that game was awful..

What about the 6 points by the Sooner offense in the first half against the nation's 103rd ranked pass defense? Maybe if the Sooner offense took care of their business, the defense could have performed better as well. OSU had more than just Josh Fields and Rashaun Woods, they also had Tatum Bell and Seymore Shaw at the running back spots and an NFL starting tight-end in Billy Bajema. At least the Sooner defense was facing a good Cowboy offense. What was the Sooner offenses excuse against that **** poor defense when the Sooners had a 2800 passing yard QB, a 1900 yard rusher and a good receiving corps? It certainly wasn't losing Kejuan Jones to an ankle injury as he was walking down the ramp and slipped shortly before kickoff!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

DTs' in this conference haven't been that good since the early days..Why would a DT want to come to the big12 when they can go to the SEC and show skills and develop playing against very "normal" offenses? I don't want to do it all over again, but the SEC has been scoring the top DT,DEs, and DBs while the rest of us fight for what's left over...

What we need is the spread offense bug to bite the SEC again.

Actually, I would rather see Oklahoma go to a more predominant running game and force the Big 12 to evolve once again as Oklahoma made the Big 12 do in 1999 and beyond. The key to the SEC is that combined, that they have roughly 4 times the amount of an African American population of the state of Texas. They are getting the best of the best when it comes to athletes, but it's not due to philosophies, it's due to population density.

[SoonerKnight]

I give up. Mike is so superior that it's not even close. How you guys have come up with this is beyond me. Wishful thinking? Crack?

For the final time, I hope Mike's D is stellar. I PRAY it is.

However, all you guys already claiming such a vast improvement - before a single down has been played - does not bode well for many of your psyches this year. We give up a bunch of points to somebody and you'll all be the ones looking for the bridge to jump off of. Me? I'm gonna take it nice and slow. I don't need the stress of expecting yet another vastly improved season only to see our hopes come crashing down around us - again. Why do you do this to yourselves?


You just made the point. Under Stoops we expected a good D and got it. After he left that was hit and miss. Especially when facing saxet!!

[BoulderSooner79]

Amazing how there is so much bickering over 2 coaches that most of us like and respect. Dean is just being rational that this year's D has yet to take the field, so how can we possibly know what we've got? Even if coaching had not changed we wouldn't know because the players have changed, and the conference has changed. We all hope Mike brings a big improvement and yes, he has done it before (and yes, it was in conjunction with BV). But the Mike Stoops from 1999-2003 does not exist anymore. He has had 8 years of life experience since then and none of it as a DC. The last 2 years of losing and being fired mid-season as HC could not have been fun, nor going through his marriage issues at home. Maybe none of this impacts his abilities as a DC or maybe it actually makes him better. Or that sword may strike with the other edge or (gasp!) we discover it was the team of Mike and BV that was the secret sauce, but neither by themselves. It's going to be interesting for sure.

[olevetonahill]

What Boulder said

Now as far as Mike being a better D coach than Brent?

Last I heard Mikes teams lost 1/2 their games they played against the Pokes . Brents only lost 1 out of what 9 er so?
So by Yalls cipherin Brent is a far superior Coach

Now lets get ready fer some OU football and let the asskickin begin

[8timechamps]

Just curious but where did you get these conference rankings because they don't match up with the info provided by the big 12 here:

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=1514232

Not trying to be a dick, I'm just looking for other sources of stats and had a hard time finding in-conference stats outside of the Big12 webpage.

NCAA.com, click on men's sports>football>FBS>Statistics>Archived Statistics (select the year you want)>Conference Reports>Big12 (then you'll need to scroll down the page to find the rankings.

[SoonerNomad]

I like this thread. Six pages in a couple of days. Would love to see more of this. I hope that Coach Mike Stoops lives up to the overwhelmingly positive support he appears to have from the Crimson and Cream crowd. I am cautiously optimistic that he will.

[8timechamps]

That is some of the best analysis i have ever read on this board. I couldn’t have said it any better. It's is so blatantly obvious Mike was better, yet some argue despite the obvious truth. Damn that was a good post, and it should END right there. Of course, you will have some idiot say, "Yeah, well Brent was there” that response was blown up when mike left and the defense took a nose dive relative to the play once before. What would it take for morons who defended Brent to reach the conclusion that Mike was better; the defense SUCKED last year, period…

We all will be vindicated when Mike kicks butt on the field, and we see obvious defensive changes...

I don't think anyone ever said BV was better than Mike (although I'm pretty sure that's the argument swirling in your head). So, since your previous statements were proven wrong, you'll go with the "the defense sucked LAST year"? Hahahahaha.

Who is the "we" that are being vindicated? As far as I know, every Sooner fan wants the team to win. Every Sooner fan wants the defense to play well.

The only "idiot" in this thread is you.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Oh no, I'm hoping OU loses every game so I can be right..because being right on a message board is a big goal of mine.

[8timechamps]

Oh no, I'm hoping OU loses every game so I can be right..because being right on a message board is a big goal of mine.

Won't you just feel SO vindicated?!

:D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Yes, and my plan is that when it happens, I'm going to start a thread so all of you posters will have to apologize to me in it and admit my allsomeness..

[8timechamps]

Yes, and my plan is that when it happens, I'm going to start a thread so all of you posters will have to apologize to me in it and admit my allsomeness..

Make sure not to enjoy any of the games and only focus on the defense (with the vindication constantly in the back of your mind). That way you can really let us have it in your "told you so!" thread.

[PalmBeachSooner]

BV's problem was that everything revolved around the LBs regardless of the situation. Unfortunately, I don't think we have had the talent at LB that would justify it. Not since Curtis Lofton have we excelled at LB play.

[85sooners]

Mike is gonna engineer 5-6 shutouts this year on defense fellas:very_drunk::very_drunk:

[thecrimsoncrusader]

What Boulder said

Now as far as Mike being a better D coach than Brent?

Last I heard Mikes teams lost 1/2 their games they played against the Pokes . Brents only lost 1 out of what 9 er so?
So by Yalls cipherin Brent is a far superior Coach

Now lets get ready fer some OU football and let the asskickin begin

The last I heard, Venables laid eggs almost every single year that result in losses. That's a terrible test base you are using there.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

well...apparently you have all fallen RIGHT into my trap. Despite my saying otherwise...this WAS in fact a thread designed to get everyone to debate whether or not BV was the problem with our team and whether MS is better than BV!!!!! BWAAAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My next thread will be a veiled attempt to see if we can get a bunch of NOOBs to disagree with dean w/o getting ***ch-slapped

[85sooners]

Good thread topic^^

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Mike Stoops my baby daddy

[8timechamps]

Mike Stoops once saved a child from drowning, rescued an old lady's cat from a tree and put out three wildfires. At the same time!

[SoonerorLater]

I would say the 2001 loss to osu was more embarassing than the 2011 one...At home, they had won 3 games, a backup quarterback played most of the game for them..

Its interesting how the facts can be ignored to make it sound bad..First loss to Baylor..They just happen to have a Heisman trophy winning all world athlete playing the quarterback position..

The offensive skill of the big12 the last 8 years isn't really comparable to the first few years...the gradual shift between the SEC(high octane offense, average defenses) and the big 12 that occurred in the early 2000s has more to do with a lot of this stuff than coaches or coordinators..It's more about the players.

From a total team standpoint yes but from a defense viewpoint no. OSU only scored 16 points and our defense only gave up one touchdown. As it turns out one touchdown too many but it took two 50+ yard field goals for OSU to win that day,

[goingoneight]

I don't think even the biggest Venables supporters will claim that we're better in 2004-2011 than we were in 2000-2003. Throw whatever numbers and arguments in there you want. Fight UFC-style to the death it you will.
We're all Sooner fans and as stubborn as we may be; we own up to it when we're wrong eventually. I still remember folks making excuses for John Blake all the way up until about halftime of the KSU game in 2000 when everyone was starting to realize this Bob Stoops guy wasn't blowing smoke at us and that we were back.
All we're saying on this board is that if you actually are a student of Mike's 2000-2003 secondaries, you probably have forgotten what the back of Rashaun Woods's jersey looks like if you think we'll be unbeatable. That "swagger" is all in your heads. You also apparently never noticed that guy with the defensive wristbands and the headsets on getting in the face of all of those linebackers.

I'll take games like last year's FSU and Texas games, the Iowa State game and even the A&M game just as often as I'll take the 2000 aTm game if it means the defense is more CONSISTENT. We've had the ability and talent for years, but we haven't been CONSISTENT. BV had plenty of games where his defense was EVERY BIT AS GOOD as it was when he was co-coordinating with Mike. He also had a few when it was the worst in school history. That's well-documented. Mike will have a few of those, too.

My hope is that we're as CONSISTENT as we were in the early 2000s. That's everyone's HOPE. Guaranteeing results before it's done is like Texas fans saying Garrett Gilbert would win a Heisman and a National Championship before Landry Jones ever beat Texas based on Mack's previous success.

I welcome the change. Look forward to seeing what this Kish guy and our talent on hand is actually all about.

[SoonerKnight]

Amazing how there is so much bickering over 2 coaches that most of us like and respect. Dean is just being rational that this year's D has yet to take the field, so how can we possibly know what we've got? Even if coaching had not changed we wouldn't know because the players have changed, and the conference has changed. We all hope Mike brings a big improvement and yes, he has done it before (and yes, it was in conjunction with BV). But the Mike Stoops from 1999-2003 does not exist anymore. He has had 8 years of life experience since then and none of it as a DC. The last 2 years of losing and being fired mid-season as HC could not have been fun, nor going through his marriage issues at home. Maybe none of this impacts his abilities as a DC or maybe it actually makes him better. Or that sword may strike with the other edge or (gasp!) we discover it was the team of Mike and BV that was the secret sauce, but neither by themselves. It's going to be interesting for sure.


A pissed off Stoops is a FIRED UP DEFENSE!!!!!!! You made the point!!

[MamaMia]

I hope Mike does well. There are so many different teams, players, combinations of players and coaches at work here. There are too many circumstances and variables to be able to make a sound judgment. Its all guess work. I'm surprised that nobody has posted what the defensive stats are surrounding Mike when he was head coach at Arizona, but I know the team as a whole didn't fare too well and at the end of the day it does fall on the shoulders of the head coach. Does that matter? Probably not, anymore than trying to figure out how well our defense under Mike Stoops will preform. Its impossible. All of the circumstances are complicated at best and definitely unpredictable. Thats also why I don't feel that you can fairly compare any two coaches.

[trpltongue]

NCAA.com, click on men's sports>football>FBS>Statistics>Archived Statistics (select the year you want)>Conference Reports>Big12 (then you'll need to scroll down the page to find the rankings.

I see the difference. The NCAA site ranks the teams in their conference based on their national ranking, so the team with the highest national ranking is ranked 1st in the conference and so on. Meanwhile the Big12 site only uses the 9 conference games to determine the conference rankings. I would say the Big12 site is the more relevant when discussing total defense relative to the big 12, because we all play basically the same teams year in and year out within the conference. At least it's a bit tighter control group.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

All we're saying on this board is that if you actually are a student of Mike's 2000-2003 secondaries, you probably have forgotten what the back of Rashaun Woods's jersey looks like if you think we'll be unbeatable.

The deal here is people keep going back to reference that one game where Rashaun Woods went off or perhaps another being the 2002 game when Reggie McNeal hit like 4 big passes. So Oklahoma had two very bad games in the very same season that resulted in losses. Of course, those probably wouldn't have even been remembered from a defensive standpoint if Oklahoma's offense didn't have to kick FIVE field goals in the ATM game or only scored SIX points in the first half against a horrible Oklahoma St. defense which greatly contributed to the losses as well.

When you reference Mike Stoops history, it a few games total that stick in the back of our minds, with Brent Venables, it's every single season and one or more games where he had epic failures. Big difference. I also remember a 2004 game with a Donovan Woods who couldn't hit the broad side of the barn that year hit three big passes against a Brent Venables coached defense. Sure, Oklahoma won that game thankfully, but no thanks to Brent Venables defense!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I hope Mike does well. There are so many different teams, players, combinations of players and coaches at work here. There are too many circumstances and variables to be able to make a sound judgment. Its all guess work. I'm surprised that nobody has posted what the defensive stats are surrounding Mike when he was head coach at Arizona, but I know the team as a whole didn't fare too well and at the end of the day it does fall on the shoulders of the head coach. Does that matter? Probably not, anymore than trying to figure out how well our defense under Mike Stoops will preform. Its impossible. All of the circumstances are complicated at best and definitely unpredictable. Thats also why I don't feel that you can fairly compare any two coaches.

Well, we do know that Brent Venables failed, so it was probably good to roll the dice on Mike Stoops who never gave up 40+ points at Oklahoma during his stint. Nor many other embarrasing stats such as giving up a school record 616 yards to the likes of Baylor. Best Baylor team in history or not, that should of never happened.

[picasso]

I've read your posts.

You definitely need a BJ. And no, I'm not applying for the job.

Everyone gets that you're in power. You don't need to constantly remind us.
Dean was like that before he became a Mod. Perhaps people should use a little more tact on here before they become more message board acquainted.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Dean was like that before he became a Mod. Perhaps people should use a little more tact on here before they become more message board acquainted.


How would one know whats "Dean Approved" if they are new to the board?

[cleller]

Darrel Royal: Where have all the cool cats gone?
Bud Wilkinson: What do you mean by "cool"?

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/yR1yXYoGUgwfMxTSatwL7d.jpg

[olevetonahill]

How would one know whats "Dean Approved" if they are new to the board?

nOObs might try what most everyone else that ever joined this place has done. Sit back and watch how every one interacts before jumping in the middle of **** they dont know is going on in.

,

[SoonerAtKU]

Mike Stoops once saved a child from drowning, rescued an old lady's cat from a tree and put out three wildfires. At the same time!

Brent Venables once drowned an old lady's child in three wildfires.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

^

[setem]

I hear they use Mike's foreskins as a tarp at Owen Field when it rains!

[MamaMia]

Well, we do know that Brent Venables failed, so it was probably good to roll the dice on Mike Stoops who never gave up 40+ points at Oklahoma during his stint. Nor many other embarrasing stats such as giving up a school record 616 yards to the likes of Baylor. Best Baylor team in history or not, that should of never happened. You play the hands you're dealt and unless you're playing duplicate bridge, no two hands are alike.

[8timechamps]

Well, we do know that Brent Venables failed, so it was probably good to roll the dice on Mike Stoops who never gave up 40+ points at Oklahoma during his stint. Nor many other embarrasing stats such as giving up a school record 616 yards to the likes of Baylor. Best Baylor team in history or not, that should of never happened.

How do we know BV "failed"? I'm not calling you out, I just don't agree. Too much has changed in the conference to accurately compare Mike to Brent (in terms of what the defenses did). There really is no way to compare the two. However, I would like to know how averaging the 2nd best defense in the conference over 8 years constitutes failure.

I really hope Mike does as well this time around. But, I would feel the same if it were any new coach.

[BoulderSooner79]

As I've stated, Mike wouldn't have been my first choice if we had been looking for a new DC. I would have preferred some confident 30-something DC from some smaller school that had done wonders with limited talent in a short amount of time and was aching for a big-time chance.

But we were not looking for a new DC - at least that's not the story. It appeared that since Mike was available, Bob wanted to "put the band back together". I'm sure Bob knew BV might not go for a co-DC gig and might lose him, but he put enough $$ on the table to show he was sincere. I'll go on record that getting Mike back would be my 2nd choice to getting some fresh up and comer.

[8timechamps]

As I've stated, Mike wouldn't have been my first choice if we had been looking for a new DC. I would have preferred some confident 30-something DC from some smaller school that had done wonders with limited talent in a short amount of time and was aching for a big-time chance.

But we were not looking for a new DC - at least that's not the story. It appeared that since Mike was available, Bob wanted to "put the band back together". I'm sure Bob knew BV might not go for a co-DC gig and might lose him, but he put enough $$ on the table to show he was sincere. I'll go on record that getting Mike back would be my 2nd choice to getting some fresh up and comer.

I'm with you. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Mike is back, but I was kind of hopping for a younger guy myself. The fact that Urban Meyer wanted Mike at tOSU told me that there is still a lot of confidence in him at DC.

[85sooners]

D-fence!!!

[Seamus]

Dean was like that before he became a Mod. Perhaps people should use a little more tact on here before they become more message board acquainted.

Been a member since January 2006, so I have a pretty good idea of the board dynamic.

I have long thought Dean should wrap the iron fist in some velvet, and I jumped up and said so. However, it was not my place to do so, and I said so, and I apologized publicly to Dean.

I am not going to get lured back into that row. So why don't you run along and go paint a cubist portrait of your dog and wife having relations and stop trying to stir up something that was already put to rest? Hmm? Yeah, that's a good doggie ...

[picasso]

Been a member since January 2006, so I have a pretty good idea of the board dynamic.

I have long thought Dean should wrap the iron fist in some velvet, and I jumped up and said so. However, it was not my place to do so, and I said so, and I apologized publicly to Dean.

I am not going to get lured back into that row. So why don't you run along and go paint a cubist portrait of your dog and wife having relations and stop trying to stir up something that was already put to rest? Hmm? Yeah, that's a good doggie ...
Wow, you sure made a stretch there. What exactly did I stir up? I simply said that Dean was like that before he was a mod here and, unlike most newbies on this site, Dean has put in many an hour to make our tailgating fun and hospitable. And, he's a real person and not some troll dork that some new goobs around here could actually be.
A cubist portrait of a dog and my wife? Funny stuff. How about I simply paint a realistic portrait of your ****ed up looking face? mmm yeah...

[SoonerinSouthlake]

nOObs might try what most everyone else that ever joined this place has done. Sit back and watch how every one interacts before jumping in the middle of **** they dont know is going on in.

,

its a message board...they shouldnt have to decode anything, they should just be able to post messages. Granted we dont want to have the spares on here who just try to stir things up and talk huge amounts of abusive smack.. But if someone truly to has read and make sure he/she "understands" how "things are done" then the sarcastic remarks in this thread about the moderator....well, arent really sarcastic.

[goingoneight]

Urban wanted Mike to Co-DC with the guy who was their interim HC last year. It would have been the exact same thing as coming back to OU and co-coordinating with guys he has had great success with before. If I'm Mike and my offers are co-DC for Urban (not knowing when he'll quit again) or go somewhere I had established myself (and being with family), this would be a no-brainer.

[C&CDean]

Been a member since January 2006, so I have a pretty good idea of the board dynamic.

I have long thought Dean should wrap the iron fist in some velvet, and I jumped up and said so. However, it was not my place to do so, and I said so, and I apologized publicly to Dean.

I am not going to get lured back into that row. So why don't you run along and go paint a cubist portrait of your dog and wife having relations and stop trying to stir up something that was already put to rest? Hmm? Yeah, that's a good doggie ...

Dude, c'mon. Bad form. I appreciate (but don't need) the apology and all, then you went all stupid with the deal about his lovely wife and a dog? Here's the deal. I know a whole lot of posters on here. Personally. We're different than the other sites that way. Picasso is a very good friend of mine, and his wife is as well. If you need to go all doggy sex on somebody do it on me. That's what I'm here for. Leave the good people alone.

Football is fixin' to start, the unwashed dildos are fixin' to come outta the woodwork, and life's too short. Don't be one of the unclean.

[SCOUT]

I have been here through 2 (maybe 3) iterations of this board. I would guess I first darkened this door in 1999. In all that time I have never had an issue with a Mod. Weird, right?

[Seamus]

Dude, c'mon. Bad form. I appreciate (but don't need) the apology and all, then you went all stupid with the deal about his lovely wife and a dog? Here's the deal. I know a whole lot of posters on here. Personally. We're different than the other sites that way. Picasso is a very good friend of mine, and his wife is as well. If you need to go all doggy sex on somebody do it on me. That's what I'm here for. Leave the good people alone.

Football is fixin' to start, the unwashed dildos are fixin' to come outta the woodwork, and life's too short. Don't be one of the unclean.


OK, cool. I'm sure he's a great guy. I interpreted what he posted as a shot at me. I responded not so in kind. Looking at it again, it could have been interpreted in several ways. Again, I find myself making apologies. To picasso. And his wife. And cubism.

What a mood. What a day. This self-imposed booze moratorium, it's driving me crazy ...

[hawaii 5-0]

I wanna see a real hungry defense.

Bodies flyin' like TRRW.

5-0

[thecrimsoncrusader]

How do we know BV "failed"? I'm not calling you out, I just don't agree. Too much has changed in the conference to accurately compare Mike to Brent (in terms of what the defenses did). There really is no way to compare the two. However, I would like to know how averaging the 2nd best defense in the conference over 8 years constitutes failure.

I really hope Mike does as well this time around. But, I would feel the same if it were any new coach.

I thought that was quite apparent by the numbers I threw up. Whle a lot has changed, the numbers presented against Brent Venables is a much bigger leap in the negative category than the actual transformation of offenses in the Big 12 from the 1st half of the 2000s compared to the 2nd half of the 2000s. Additionally, Texas Tech was already putting up big passing numbers in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 and Mike Stoops' defense handled them with no issues from not only a passing yards standpoint, but from a points allowed standpoint.

Then Brent Venables takes over has the primary defensive coordinator (i.e. defensive play-caller) and the next thing you know, Texas Tech jumps up to 369 passing yards against Oklahoma and then they started going over 400 yards. When Mike was here, they had 309 passing yards in the 2000 season when the young coaching staff was still building up the Oklahoma defense and in 2001, 2002 and 2003, Texas Tech was only getting about 250 passing yards per game. A lot has changed in the Big 12 Conference, but Texas Tech had not during that time from the transition from Mike Stoops' defense against Mike Leach's offense to Brent Venables defense to Mike Leach's offense. So that right there is a way to compare the two.

Averaging the 2nd best defense in the conference over an 8 year period sadly, doesn't mean much in the Big 12. And given this is Oklahoma, Oklahoma should have been averaging the best defense in the conference over the 8 year period.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Football is fixin' to start, the unwashed dildos are fixin' to come outta the woodwork, and life's too short. Don't be one of the unclean.\

on that note....I have nothing more to say about the subject. Ready for some football!

BOOMER! GO MIKE!!!!!!

[cleller]

\

on that note....I have nothing more to say about the subject. Ready for some football!

BOOMER! GO MIKE!!!!!!

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/VIDFCYMZXETJPGZ20091229220833.jpg

[UberSooner]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. First I was like all "wtf!" then I was like all "lol!" There some serious need for therapy up in here. God I love this place.

[C&CDean]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. First I was like all "wtf!" then I was like all "lol!" There some serious need for therapy up in here. God I love this place.

Just wait till UTEP scores on us. You ain't seen nothing yet...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Ahh, Mike will get the Heupel grace period probably..Now if Brent V was still here, that would be a different subject..

[olevetonahill]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. First I was like all "wtf!" then I was like all "lol!" There some serious need for therapy up in here. God I love this place.

Dean is our
http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/anger-management-premiere-picture_514x343.jpg

[C&CDean]

Ahh, Mike will get the Heupel grace period probably..Now if Brent V was still here, that would be a different subject..

Yeah, they're gonna sound like Dallas Kaboy fans when Switzer won the Super Bowl. "Well these are all Venable's players, that's why they ran up 500 yards on us by gawd."

I'm really kinda dreading football season...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The only thing Im dreading is not meeting up with you in the porta potty each week.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Just wait till UTEP scores on us. You ain't seen nothing yet...

You see, that's the problem right there. You don't get it. No one is going to score on Oklahoma this season. Oklahoma will only need 2 points per game to go undefeated this season!

[Wishboned]

If you need to go all doggy sex on somebody do it on me.


Taken out of context this would make the greatest sig ever.

[AZSOONER]

I'm excited for Mike to be back. I think we would have beat lsu if he would have finished the season. I also think he is a better coach that Venables and although I like Brent, I am looking forward to our swagger coming back.

[8timechamps]

I thought that was quite apparent by the numbers I threw up. Whle a lot has changed, the numbers presented against Brent Venables is a much bigger leap in the negative category than the actual transformation of offenses in the Big 12 from the 1st half of the 2000s compared to the 2nd half of the 2000s. Additionally, Texas Tech was already putting up big passing numbers in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 and Mike Stoops' defense handled them with no issues from not only a passing yards standpoint, but from a points allowed standpoint.

Then Brent Venables takes over has the primary defensive coordinator (i.e. defensive play-caller) and the next thing you know, Texas Tech jumps up to 369 passing yards against Oklahoma and then they started going over 400 yards. When Mike was here, they had 309 passing yards in the 2000 season when the young coaching staff was still building up the Oklahoma defense and in 2001, 2002 and 2003, Texas Tech was only getting about 250 passing yards per game. A lot has changed in the Big 12 Conference, but Texas Tech had not during that time from the transition from Mike Stoops' defense against Mike Leach's offense to Brent Venables defense to Mike Leach's offense. So that right there is a way to compare the two.

Averaging the 2nd best defense in the conference over an 8 year period sadly, doesn't mean much in the Big 12. And given this is Oklahoma, Oklahoma should have been averaging the best defense in the conference over the 8 year period.

Honestly, I didn't even see your post (with the numbers). I was in a different conversation with my own numbers...this thread has been awesome that way.

While I would love to have the number one defense in the Big XII year over year, I know that's not reality. Hell, Texas has had the best defense in the conference recently, and it really hasn't served them too well. Anyway, it's mostly opinion since there is no way to really compare the two. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But, I do appreciate your argument.

Now, let's get this season rolling!

[ObiKaTony]

I don't think anyone ever said BV was better than Mike (although I'm pretty sure that's the argument swirling in your head). So, since your previous statements were proven wrong, you'll go with the "the defense sucked LAST year"? Hahahahaha.

Who is the "we" that are being vindicated? As far as I know, every Sooner fan wants the team to win. Every Sooner fan wants the defense to play well.

The only "idiot" in this thread is you.

I'm glad your genius was able to deduce "Every sooner fan wants the team to win." Wow, simply astonishing that a sooner fan wants the team to win. The point that you missed is much deeper so I'll elaborate since it's obvious you need some help. Most fans know that Mike was/is better than Brent, the issue is that many people on this board kept making excuses for Brent, when no such action was valid. That idiocy lent to several years of Sooner football being downgraded when stats, action, and the play clearly directed the "fans" to get rid of V. I can say with some certainty that public pressure from fans got rid of V. The fans that kept making excuses commented on those pointing out the obvious with some of the most sanctimonious b.s. I have read in a long time. Now, I find it hilarious as hell that Stoops hired back Mike when the “people that didn’t know football” clamored for it for years…

I'm not ignorant enough to call someone I don't know an idiot, however, like the stats that pointed to Brent being a sub-par coach, your comment points to you having a subpar intellect...

[olevetonahill]

Now Im just trying to figure out whos troll YOU are

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Public pressure got rid of Venables?

~sigh~

[BoulderSooner79]

Public pressure got rid of Venables?

~sigh~

It did?! I feel so empowered now.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

2 things any surface level fan can do with ease when watching a sporting event..1.Blame refs 2. Blame coaches

Coaches by the numbers is a place I've used for a long time..I'll say their numbers and opinions on Venables are a lot different than Tony's...

[olevetonahill]

Public pressure got rid of Venables?

~sigh~

That dayum Curly Bill :blue:

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Venables is gone, Stoops is here...we can talk about M Stoops but if you think people are idiots for thinking that Venables is a top notch DC, then I can throw numbers out just like anyone can..

[rock on sooner]

Now Im just trying to figure out whos troll YOU are

Patience, Vet, patience...it'll come to light! Hey, what
happened to all yer vcash?

[olevetonahill]

Patience, Vet, patience...it'll come to light! Hey, what
happened to all yer vcash?

I bet it
Usually dont even think about it

[BoulderSooner79]

I've been hoarding my vCash for the coming financial apocalypse. So even if society collapses, I'll have 500 in vCash to barter.

[olevetonahill]

I've been hoarding my vCash for the coming financial apocalypse. So even if society collapses, I'll have 500 in vCash to barter.

But if you only got 500 and the inflation hits yer 500 aint worth ****

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Venables is gone, Stoops is here...we can talk about M Stoops but if you think people are idiots for thinking that Venables is a top notch DC, then I can throw numbers out just like anyone can..

Let's see those numbers!

[pphilfran]

A stud defensive lineman is more important than Mike Stoops....without that great d line push you have to use smoke and mirrors on defense and that sets your defense up for busts...

[SoonerorLater]

Numbers are one thing and my eyes are another. My opinion is that Mike Stoops, based on his body of work is a better DC. While Mike had his ups and downs like any coach his defenses just looked better. More physical and aggressive. Venables had his moments but he had some really big stinkers on his resume. Mike avoided losses like USC, WV and TT last year. His worst game may have been OSU in 2002. Maybe he won't be able to duplicate his past success but he does have a Championship under his belt which he contributed to mightily. Holding FSU to 2 points on the big stage is quite a feat.

[olevetonahill]

Yup Them numbers tell ya the story
Mikes teams lost to the Pokes twice in 5 games
Brents only once in 9

Wonder who was better against the pokes?

[SoonerorLater]

Yup Them numbers tell ya the story
Mikes teams lost to the Pokes twice in 5 games
Brents only once in 9

Wonder who was better against the pokes?

Well it isn't Mike's team it's Mike's Defense for purposes of this conversation. You can't really lay the 2001 loss at the feet of the defense. They gave up 16 points total and of those 16 points OSU had to get two 50+ yard field goals to pull it off. I don't think it's an indictment against Mike's Defense that we were only able to score 13 points on a pretty bad OSU defense. Like I said the OSU loss in 2002 was the low water mark for Mike Stoops' Defenses. I can't think of even one loss under Stoops that is as bad as USC, WV, and the OSU & TT games last year. One (1) National Championship easily trumps the OSU losses. It's not that Venables was so bad as he just had some inexplictably bad losses. As in the rest of life sometimes your only as good as your worst day.

[olevetonahill]

Well it isn't Mike's team it's Mike's Defense for purposes of this conversation. You can't really lay the 2001 loss at the feet of the defense. They gave up 16 points total and of those 16 points OSU had to get two 50+ yard field goals to pull it off. I don't think it's an indictment against Mike's Defense that we were only able to score 13 points on a pretty bad OSU defense. Like I said the OSU loss in 2002 was the low water mark for Mike Stoops' Defenses. I can't think of even one loss under Stoops that is as bad as USC, WV, and the OSU & TT games last year. One (1) National Championship easily trumps the OSU losses. It's not that Venables was so bad as he just had some inexplictably bad losses. As in the rest of life sometimes your only as good as your worst day.

Even tho he had moved on to AZ it was STILL his Ds that tok the asswhoopins at KSU and then against uSc

My whole point here is youy never know what one would do over the other
all we have is what happened individually
Im like most ever one else here I hope Mike comes out roaring and his Ds shut down every one. But Im gonna with hold my bowing down and worshiping him until he does

[85sooners]

Mike is the man!!!!!!!

[GameWarden]

I don't think even the biggest Venables supporters will claim that we're better in 2004-2011 than we were in 2000-2003. Throw whatever numbers and arguments in there you want. Fight UFC-style to the death it you will.
We're all Sooner fans and as stubborn as we may be; we own up to it when we're wrong eventually. I still remember folks making excuses for John Blake all the way up until about halftime of the KSU game in 2000 when everyone was starting to realize this Bob Stoops guy wasn't blowing smoke at us and that we were back.
All we're saying on this board is that if you actually are a student of Mike's 2000-2003 secondaries, you probably have forgotten what the back of Rashaun Woods's jersey looks like if you think we'll be unbeatable. That "swagger" is all in your heads. You also apparently never noticed that guy with the defensive wristbands and the headsets on getting in the face of all of those linebackers.

I'll take games like last year's FSU and Texas games, the Iowa State game and even the A&M game just as often as I'll take the 2000 aTm game if it means the defense is more CONSISTENT. We've had the ability and talent for years, but we haven't been CONSISTENT. BV had plenty of games where his defense was EVERY BIT AS GOOD as it was when he was co-coordinating with Mike. He also had a few when it was the worst in school history. That's well-documented. Mike will have a few of those, too.

My hope is that we're as CONSISTENT as we were in the early 2000s. That's everyone's HOPE. Guaranteeing results before it's done is like Texas fans saying Garrett Gilbert would win a Heisman and a National Championship before Landry Jones ever beat Texas based on Mack's previous success.

I welcome the change. Look forward to seeing what this Kish guy and our talent on hand is actually all about.

Last years FSU was as physical as any contest I watched last year and many have forgotten that BV's defense totally confused Weeden in 2010. Does BV get any cred for that? If Venables has lacked anything it is as you say - consistency.
I think we should remember that coaching in college football is as much a team effort as playing the game, at least with the Stoops. Bob and Mike may work better together than Bob and Brent but it will still be a team effort. Put me down as one of those who doesn't expect to see a radical improvement in the defense this year.

[picasso]

How would one know whats "Dean Approved" if they are new to the board?

Try not being a dick to any mod? There's a start.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

A stud defensive lineman is more important than Mike Stoops....without that great d line push you have to use smoke and mirrors on defense and that sets your defense up for busts...

The 2000 Sooner defensive line disagrees. Limitations of the defensive line can be schemed around with the right defensive coordinator. Mike Stoops is that guy, Brent Venables must be the other guy.

[C&CDean]

If you look in the dictionary under "obtuse" you're gonna see a pic of you and obi holding hands.

How about we wait till a mike stoops defense hits the field and shows us what they can do before proclaiming him king. That would be the smart thing to do. The prudent thing. The wise thing. No?

[Soonerwake]

But, how much fun is that Deano?? Wait, schmait...

[UberSooner]

You know something that doesn't get mentioned but is truly astounding, is that when we did our nationwide search for the best defensive coach we could bring in to shore up our D, it turns out to be our head coaches brother who also just happened to be recently available. Friggin lottery winner type odds. Gotta be some of that ol' Sooner Magic!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

If you look in the dictionary under "obtuse" you're gonna see a pic of you and obi holding hands.

How about we wait till a mike stoops defense hits the field and shows us what they can do before proclaiming him king. That would be the smart thing to do. The prudent thing. The wise thing. No?

He's already shown what he can do and that's not allowing Orange Bowl records for TDs being allowed and not allowing school records for total yards allowed to be set by the likes of Baylor among many other failures that occurred since his departure.

Football changes, but so do coaches with those changes assuming they are good coaches to begin with. This isn't any different than when Charlie McBride switched from the "Oklahoma" to the 4-3 back in the early 90s. You can either coach defense or you can't and Mike Stoops can coach defense. I don't see why you are being so obtuse about this and you are going to look really silly this season going about it this way.

[85sooners]

Mike is the king of defense!!

[Salt City Sooner]

The 2000 Sooner defensive line disagrees. Limitations of the defensive line can be schemed around with the right defensive coordinator. Mike Stoops is that guy, Brent Venables must be the other guy.
Yeah, it's not like Ryan Fisher was 1st team All Big 12 that year, or Kory Klein was 2nd team freshman All-American. Oh, wait......


•In 2000, he had four defensive linemen selected to All-Big 12 teams including first team selection Ryan Fisher.

http://www.soonersports.com/bobstoops/pages/Staff/jshipp.html

[8timechamps]

I'm glad your genius was able to deduce "Every sooner fan wants the team to win." Wow, simply astonishing that a sooner fan wants the team to win. The point that you missed is much deeper so I'll elaborate since it's obvious you need some help. Most fans know that Mike was/is better than Brent, the issue is that many people on this board kept making excuses for Brent, when no such action was valid. That idiocy lent to several years of Sooner football being downgraded when stats, action, and the play clearly directed the "fans" to get rid of V. I can say with some certainty that public pressure from fans got rid of V. The fans that kept making excuses commented on those pointing out the obvious with some of the most sanctimonious b.s. I have read in a long time. Now, I find it hilarious as hell that Stoops hired back Mike when the “people that didn’t know football” clamored for it for years…

I'm not ignorant enough to call someone I don't know an idiot, however, like the stats that pointed to Brent being a sub-par coach, your comment points to you having a subpar intellect...


You again? Seriously, you MADE UP statistics to make your argument look better, then needed someone else to re-frame your opinion (and by the way, you should take notes from him, he didn't make up stats to back his argument). It's okay that you think I have subpar intellect, because the kind of person that comes to a message board and makes up 'facts' is a pretty weak minded fool.

You said you would be "Vindicated". That **** made me laugh everytime I read it. Just so you know, people aren't laughing WITH you, they're laughing AT you.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

^

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Yeah, it's not like Ryan Fisher was 1st team All Big 12 that year, or Kory Klein was 2nd team freshman All-American. Oh, wait......



http://www.soonersports.com/bobstoops/pages/Staff/jshipp.html

Wooo, I'm really impressed. As a defensive line as a WHOLE, they were quite average. And Ryan Fisher, nor Kory Klein required double-teams (this is the key aspect of all of this). Next.

[Salt City Sooner]

Yeah, I'm sure that they all got on those all-conference teams purely on sympathy votes. :rolleyes:

Oh, & Fisher got that 1st team all conference nod without recording a single sack. That alone tells me that he was either very proficient at picking the mud out of his teammates facemasks, or he was damn good at drawing a double team.

[thunderfan]

I heart Mike Stoops

[agoo758]

Try not being a dick to any mod? There's a start.


Dean can say whatever he wants, and how DARE someone respond!

[picasso]

Dean can say whatever he wants, and how DARE someone respond!
Not my point but eh.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You know something that doesn't get mentioned but is truly astounding, is that when we did our nationwide search for the best defensive coach we could bring in to shore up our D, it turns out to be our head coaches brother who also just happened to be recently available. Friggin lottery winner type odds. Gotta be some of that ol' Sooner Magic!I like this! Besides, we're overdue for some breaks, I think.