Another Post about Greed

[I Am Right]

DONAHUE: When you see around the globe the maldistribution of wealth, the desperate plight of millions of people in underdeveloped countries, when you see so few haves and so many have-nots, when you see the greed and the concentration of power, did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea to run on?



FRIEDMAN: Well, first of all, tell me, is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed? You think Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run on greed? What is greed? Of course none of us are greedy. It's only the other fellow who's greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you're talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.

DONAHUE: But it seems to reward not virtue as much as ability to manipulate the system.

FRIEDMAN: And what does reward virtue? Do you think the communist commissar rewards virtue? Do you think Hitler rewards virtue? Do you think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest? You know, I think you're taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us.

DONAHUE: Well --

FRIEDMAN: I don't even trust you to do that.

[badger]

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."

[LiveLaughLove]

DONAHUE: When you see around the globe the maldistribution of wealth, the desperate plight of millions of people in underdeveloped countries, when you see so few haves and so many have-nots, when you see the greed and the concentration of power, did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea to run on?



FRIEDMAN: Well, first of all, tell me, is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed? You think Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run on greed? What is greed? Of course none of us are greedy. It's only the other fellow who's greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you're talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.

DONAHUE: But it seems to reward not virtue as much as ability to manipulate the system.

FRIEDMAN: And what does reward virtue? Do you think the communist commissar rewards virtue? Do you think Hitler rewards virtue? Do you think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest? You know, I think you're taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us.

DONAHUE: Well --

FRIEDMAN: I don't even trust you to do that.

Excellent post. He was teh awesome.

Here's the part that get's to the crux of the difference between the left and right in America in my mind.


If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that.

The inner cities of the major cities are little mini-socialistic fiefdoms. They are totally in abject poverty for the most part. Detroit is almost dead, yet they keep electing the handouts givers over and over and over again.

The people there are trapped in the "feed me" syndrome of the plant from Little Shop of Horrors. They ARE for all intents and purposes the slaves of the left politicians. Their work is simply their vote, instead of hard labor.

I have always felt the right cares far more for these people than the left. We want them to lift themselves up out of poverty. We are even willing to aid them in doing so. But they won't even listen.

I see it in my tribe. People get their government check, and drink it away until the first of next month. Some, not a lot, wean themselves from the government tit. They are the exception not the rule. It's sad.

[badger]

The inner cities of the major cities are little mini-socialistic fiefdoms. They are totally in abject poverty for the most part. Detroit is almost dead, yet they keep electing the handouts givers over and over and over again.

When Detroit finally declares bankruptcy, the system may self-correct itself by Michigan having to take over and then the "tough nerd" governor will end the handouts. After all, the state of Meatchicken finally cutoff its students from getting food stamps (no joke, college students got food stamps. wtf).


I have always felt the right cares far more for these people than the left. We want them to lift themselves up out of poverty. We are even willing to aid them in doing so. But they won't even listen.

I wouldn't go that far, but there's no doubt that "tough love" is based on love, not toughness.


I see it in my tribe. People get their government check, and drink it away until the first of next month. Some, not a lot, wean themselves from the government tit. They are the exception not the rule. It's sad.

Word. I was astounded at the amount of free stuff I could apply for within my tribe. There's a school supply allowance (except that my kid isn't in real school yet, heh), an athletic shoe allowance for when she gets old enough to join a sports team, a utility allowance that can be used for everything except cable TV, you name it.

At the same time, I remember the ex-Cherokee chief saying (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleid=20111025_11_A1 _CUTLIN993021) that one of his proudest accomplishments as chief was being able to offer employment opportunities to tribe members.


In thinking of his accomplishments, Chad Smith recalls "some big Indian guy" who walked up to him during his 12-year tenure as Cherokee Nation principal chief, looking as though he had a complaint.

The man took the chief aside and said, "I want to thank you," Smith said.

The man told Smith he had been poor but had gotten a job at the casino, earned a few promotions and was now making about $20 per hour.

"Over the last four years, I took the opportunity to get promotions and work hard," Smith said as he tells the story. "Now I can ..." Smith pauses to regain his emotions less than a week after suffering a final loss to Bill John Baker in the Cherokee Nation's election for principal chief after months of contention and confusion.

"He says, 'Now I can buy my kids any pair of tennis shoes they want,'" Smith said, returning to his stoic heritage. "His sense of pride was phenomenal."

The "big Indian's" story affirms for Smith the overarching theme to his years in Cherokee politics which were spent fighting for sovereignty - not just for the nation but also the ability for each of its more than 300,000 citizens to be able to stand on their own feet.

So... society is what we all make it. Make it a great one ;)