Okay NPR...

[soonerhubs]

I've faithfully listened to you daily going on 4 years. In those 4 years, I've vehemently defended you as an unbiased source of news and information. However, the way that you are portraying Romney as some sort of ignorant gaffe factory while ignoring the opposition's own silly remarks is bad form, biased, and indefensible.

Honestly, I expect this bias from some opinion shows like The Take Away where John Hockenberry is obviously President Obama's media bitch, but the afternoon show is disappointing me this week.

Someone give me a reason to defend the past few days of extremely biased news selection and reporting by the likes of Cokie Roberts and the usually level-headed All Things Considered Team. I'm all ears... er... eyes. :D

TIA!

[Curly Bill]

I've never seen NPR as unbiased. So...coming from someone on the right, take that for what it's worth.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I've faithfully listened to you daily going on 4 years. In those 4 years, I've vehemently defended you as an unbiased source of news and information. However, the way that you are portraying Romney as some sort of ignorant gaffe factory while ignoring the opposition's own silly remarks is bad form, biased, and indefensible.

Honestly, I expect this bias from some opinion shows like The Take Away where John Hockenberry is obviously President Obama's media bitch, but the afternoon show is disappointing me this week.

Someone give me a reason to defend the past few days of extremely biased news selection and reporting by the likes of Cokie Roberts and the usually level-headed All Things Considered Team. I'm all ears... er... eyes. :D

TIA!I think those Mormon's may be get'n to ya:afro:

[soonerhubs]

I think those Mormon's may be get'n to ya:afro:

:) Probably so!

[soonercruiser]

Unfortunately, I like listening to the local classical music channel in the mornings.
(I not ready to kill anything that early)
But, I have to turn off their NPR news. I just got tired of the obvious liberal twist to every story headline.
When you get to hear or read the whole story....the complete story is usually "facted" in another direction.
:untroubled:

Dopn't ask me to defend them

[XingTheRubicon]

how is something that's government funded AND a media source end up being leftist?



baffling

[soonerhubs]

LINDA WERTHEIMER, HOST: So today is Poland. Why is he stopping in Poland. What does he hope to accomplish with that?

COKIE ROBERTS: Well, I think part of it was a desire to portray President Obama as something of a wimp, and say he’s abandoned Eastern Europe. But look, you remember well the Reagan Democrats. Those ethnic white voters who had been Democrats for many years; turned out for Ronald Reagan, and have been fairly predictable Republicans since then. Now it’s a smaller percentage of the population — of the voting population — than it used to be, but white voters are still much more Republican than any other group in the electorate. They went for McCain in 2008 by 55%. And I think that getting those ethnic voters excited is really what Romney has in mind here. It’s more for the folks at home — the descendents of the people that he will be speaking to — in Poland.

Cokie should resign.

[Curly Bill]

how is something that's government funded AND a media source end up being leftist?



baffling

It is quite the condundrum. ;)

[rock on sooner]

Okay, here goes, I've listened to and contributed to NPR (locally) for 23
years. Yup, it does lean to the left but it DOES give a lot of air time to
the righties and more often than not really presents both sides. I've heard,
over the years, so much stuff from the right ON NPR that I don't have to
hunt down Rush, Coulter, et al very often...'cept when I go across Nebraska,
cause that's all there is for 400 frickin miles. Cokie, most of the time, gives
both sides as a point, counterpoint on Mondays.

As to gov't funding, well, only about 15% of NPR's money comes from the Fed
and the right religiously tries to cut that down to nothing every year.

JMO, but you guys are off base here...

[soonerhubs]

I'm open to an opinion. However, you're not convincing me to defend them as objective journalists. The selected stories these past few days are spun towards President Obama's advantage. They spent a good 20 minutes today attacking Romney's trip to Europe. There wasn't one positive thing said about his trip, and, YES, there were plenty of positives.

I've patiently waited for them to give the same scrutiny to the opposing politicians, but I didn't hear anything on that end. It's blatant biased journalism, and those in charge of programming need to at least admit to it.

However, I'm open to the idea that I missed a story where they were all negative towards Obama during this campaign season. Show me. I'm ready to see it.

[soonerhubs]

...

[diverdog]

I've faithfully listened to you daily going on 4 years. In those 4 years, I've vehemently defended you as an unbiased source of news and information. However, the way that you are portraying Romney as some sort of ignorant gaffe factory while ignoring the opposition's own silly remarks is bad form, biased, and indefensible.

Honestly, I expect this bias from some opinion shows like The Take Away where John Hockenberry is obviously President Obama's media bitch, but the afternoon show is disappointing me this week.

Someone give me a reason to defend the past few days of extremely biased news selection and reporting by the likes of Cokie Roberts and the usually level-headed All Things Considered Team. I'm all ears... er... eyes. :D

TIA!

If they do not knock Biden then I would agree.

Romney did not have a good trip overseas and quit frankly he is a loose cannon. I think he maybe Joe Biden's long lost brother.

[okie52]

If they do not knock Biden then I would agree.

Romney did not have a good trip overseas and quit frankly he is a loose cannon. I think he maybe Joe Biden's long lost brother.

Did NPR go after "you didn't build it" Obama?

[Skysooner]

I just got tired of the obvious liberal twist to every story headline.
When you get to hear or read the whole story....the complete story is usually "facted" in another direction.

Oh, the irony...

[Curly Bill]

Oh, the irony...

Not really, because unless I missed something cruiser doesn't claim to be a "journalist."

[badger]

Did NPR go after "you didn't build it" Obama?

EVERYone went after Obama on that, even the leftie political cartoonists. (http://www.cagle.com/news/obama-defines-success/) Here's a few excerpts:
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/12/2012/07/22/115598_600.jpg
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/178/2012/07/19/115433_600.jpg

[cleller]

I listen to NPR only because I am sick of Fleetwood Mac.

Always felt they were very liberal, but try to sound like they are not. Making a lot out of nothing. Besides, did Romney say anything that was not the truth?

Obviously there were last minute serious problems in London. Romney has experience with the Olympics, he knows what he's talking about.
Is there any doubt Israel is more developed than its Palestinian neighbors? What's he supposed to do deny it?

What ever happened to "its the economy, stupid?"

[okie52]

EVERYone went after Obama on that, even the leftie political cartoonists. (http://www.cagle.com/news/obama-defines-success/) Here's a few excerpts:
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/12/2012/07/22/115598_600.jpg
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/178/2012/07/19/115433_600.jpg

LOL

Somehow I doubt many lefties saw the humor in it.

[cleller]

Its funny that the news anchors seem to be snarking more at Romney for these comments than they actually did Obama for the "you didn't build that" comment. They mostly tried to explain his position.

NBC even dug up a 2002 speech Romney gave to olympians where he remarked how they "didn't get here solely on your own." Of course the rest of the story is he was referring to the encouragement and support of their families. Hardly similar, yet worth their reporting efforts.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12904508-romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own?lite

[okie52]

Its funny that the news anchors seem to be snarking more at Romney for these comments than they actually did Obama for the "you didn't build that" comment. They mostly tried to explain his position.

NBC even dug up a 2002 speech Romney gave to olympians where he remarked how they "didn't get here solely on your own." Of course the rest of the story is he was referring to the encouragement and support of their families. Hardly similar, yet worth their reporting efforts.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12904508-romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own?lite

CNN is probably the most middle of the for news (and they lean left) but they didn't give that much time to Obama's comment. They do often point out Romney's supposed gaffes in Europe.

I haven't heard Fox, NPR or MSNBC on these issues.

[Skysooner]

Not really, because unless I missed something cruiser doesn't claim to be a "journalist."

No, I was just saying cruiser mostly posts very conservative news on here. I find both too liberal and too conservative to be bad sources of information, and it is usually obvious. You have to take whatever "facts" they purport with a grain of salt. It is the same with regards to taking polling information too seriously without having insight into the way questions are asked, who asked the questions, population selection, etc.

[soonercruiser]

I'm open to an opinion. However, you're not convincing me to defend them as objective journalists. The selected stories these past few days are spun towards President Obama's advantage. They spent a good 20 minutes today attacking Romney's trip to Europe. There wasn't one positive thing said about his trip, and, YES, there were plenty of positives.

I've patiently waited for them to give the same scrutiny to the opposing politicians, but I didn't hear anything on that end. It's blatant biased journalism, and those in charge of programming need to at least admit to it.

However, I'm open to the idea that I missed a story where they were all negative towards Obama during this campaign season. Show me. I'm ready to see it.

THIS ^^^^^^

[soonercruiser]

Not really, because unless I missed something cruiser doesn't claim to be a "journalist."

BINGO!!!!!
At least I'm honest enough to know that I wouldn't do a fair and balanced job at it! I have my opinion.....
I use my "breath" to remind everyone there is good versus evil! Black versus white!
Most of the media simply aren't honest about their "leanings".

You guys can sit on the fence all you want to.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/roadkill1.jpg

[Skysooner]

BINGO!!!!!
At least I'm honest enough to know that I wouldn't do a fair and balanced job at it! I have my opinion.....
I use my "breath" to remind everyone there is good versus evil! Black versus white!
Most of the media simply aren't honest about their "leanings".

You guys can sit on the fence all you want to.

It isn't sitting on the fence. I have strong opinions, but I also don't want to waste time and emotion debating with someone that is diametrically opposed to me. I happen to agree with you about NPR. I feel about them just the same as I feel about Rush or Fox News.

[diverdog]

BINGO!!!!!
At least I'm honest enough to know that I wouldn't do a fair and balanced job at it! I have my opinion.....
I use my "breath" to remind everyone there is good versus evil! Black versus white!
Most of the media simply aren't honest about their "leanings".

You guys can sit on the fence all you want to.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/roadkill1.jpg.

No you are not honest about it. Conservative news and commentary absolutely dominate the market and yet you think the mainstream media has all the power. Tell me who on the left in the media who wields the kind of power Rush Limbaugh carries in American politics?

[rock on sooner]

DD, don't forget about Beck, Hannity, Coulter. Couple of times
that Coulter has been on This Week on Sunday mornings, she
does the same thing every time...talks over whoever she disagrees
with, raises her voice, says "let me finish" yadda, yadda and
spouts her drivel. I'm reminded of when Rush had his tv show..
couldn't be in the audience unless you were in jacket and tie and
absolutely could not disagree. Rush cuts off any caller who gets
by his screener that takes issue with anything he spouts....

[ictsooner7]

Its funny that the news anchors seem to be snarking more at Romney for these comments than they actually did Obama for the "you didn't build that" comment. They mostly tried to explain his position.

NBC even dug up a 2002 speech Romney gave to olympians where he remarked how they "didn't get here solely on your own." Of course the rest of the story is he was referring to the encouragement and support of their families. Hardly similar, yet worth their reporting efforts.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12904508-romney-to-olympians-you-didnt-get-here-solely-on-your-own?lite

It's funny that you want to show that NBC ignored the context of the Romney qoute - which is very clear what he said - that you didn't get here alone, you have support of families, coaches ect to get here. But when the right takes a quote completely out of context with The President, you buy it hook, line and sinker. This is what The President said:


"Look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something—there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own.”

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/on-politics/2012/07/25/mcdonnell-says-obama-you-didnt-build-that-quote-about-policy-not-words/

It's very obvious he is refering the the infrastructure he was talking about, what was built that your business uses to operate, roads, highways, sewers, ect. Only rightwingers don’t see, because they don't want to, that he was talking about infrastructure, so if you want to take things literally, then Romney told Olympians they didn’t get there by working hard, someone else did it for them. Try to be consistent with your arguments.

[LiveLaughLove]

It's funny that you want to show that NBC ignored the context of the Romney qoute - which is very clear what he said - that you didn't get here alone, you have support of families, coaches ect to get here. But when the right takes a quote completely out of context with The President, you buy it hook, line and sinker. This is what The President said:


"Look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something—there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own.”

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/on-politics/2012/07/25/mcdonnell-says-obama-you-didnt-build-that-quote-about-policy-not-words/

It's very obvious he is refering the the infrastructure he was talking about, what was built that your business uses to operate, roads, highways, sewers, ect. Only rightwingers don’t see, because they don't want to, that he was talking about infrastructure, so if you want to take things literally, then Romney told Olympians they didn’t get there by working hard, someone else did it for them. Try to be consistent with your arguments.

Wrong, as I have said before. They guy is supposedly the greatest orator of our time. I know this because the media keeps saying it.

He mocked successful business owners with the "there are lots of smart people, bunch of hard working people" stuff. He then went on to say, "roads and bridges", then "if you've got a business - you didn't build THAT".

He clearly was speaking about the singular item, ie, the BUSINESS. Had he been speaking about the plural items, the ROADS AND BRIDGES, he would have said THEM, or THOSE.

Say it out loud, it makes no sense. "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THAT." or, "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THOSE." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THEM." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THAT." He would have said THOSE or THEM if he had meant the roads and bridges. He didn't say THOSE or THEM because he wasn't referring to THEM. He had clearly switched thoughts to the business, THAT.

He then said "somebody else made THAT (again singular) happen. Twice he used THAT and didn't use THOSE or THEM, because he simply wasn't referring to THOSE roads and bridges.

He then rambles un-factually about the internet, twisting it to convey that somehow the internet was made specifically for free enterprise to use. Which is idiotic and ludicrous.

The crux of his point (which was off the teleprompter script, so they were his words) which has been lost in all of this, is this part, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

He was playing to his base with class warfare (which he is a master at, btw). He knows business owners don't believe the crap he had just spewed, but he knows his followers do believe it. So hey, the MAN owes me! I helped build his freaking business! THAT was the message. He was playing to his base plain and simple, and he got dinged for not sticking to his script. And he should have. It was an idiotic statement, and you folks that defend him here can't just admit that.

[Curly Bill]

Wrong, as I have said before. They guy is supposedly the greatest orator of our time. I know this because the media keeps saying it.

He mocked successful business owners with the "there are lots of smart people, bunch of hard working people" stuff. He then went on to say, "roads and bridges", then "if you've got a business - you didn't build THAT".

He clearly was speaking about the singular item, ie, the BUSINESS. Had he been speaking about the plural items, the roads and bridges, he would have said THEM, or THOSE.

Say it out loud, it makes no sense. "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THAT." or, "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THOSE." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THEM." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THAT." He would have said THOSE or THEM if he had meant the roads and bridges. He didn't say THOSE or THEM because he wasn't referring to THEM. He had clearly switched thoughts to the business, THAT.

He then said "somebody else made THAT (again singular) happen. He then rambles un-factually about the internet, twisting it to convey that somehow the internet was made specifically for free enterprise to use. Which is idiotic and ludicrous.

The crux of his point (which was off the teleprompter script, so they were his words) which has been lost in all of this, is this part, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

He was playing to his base with class warfare (which he is a master at, btw). He knows business owners don't believe the crap he had just spewed, but he knows his followers do believe it. So hey, the MAN owes me! I helped build his freaking business! THAT was the message. He was playing to his base plain and simple, and he got dinged for not sticking to his script. And he should have. It was an idiotic statement, and you folks that defend him here can't just admit that.

Anyone with a functional brain knows what Obammy meant. The problem here is you directed this at icky who does not have a functional brain.

[Skysooner]

Wrong, as I have said before. They guy is supposedly the greatest orator of our time. I know this because the media keeps saying it.

He mocked successful business owners with the "there are lots of smart people, bunch of hard working people" stuff. He then went on to say, "roads and bridges", then "if you've got a business - you didn't build THAT".

He clearly was speaking about the singular item, ie, the BUSINESS. Had he been speaking about the plural items, the ROADS AND BRIDGES, he would have said THEM, or THOSE.

Say it out loud, it makes no sense. "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THAT." or, "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THOSE." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THEM." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THAT." He would have said THOSE or THEM if he had meant the roads and bridges. He didn't say THOSE or THEM because he wasn't referring to THEM. He had clearly switched thoughts to the business, THAT.

He then said "somebody else made THAT (again singular) happen. He then rambles un-factually about the internet, twisting it to convey that somehow the internet was made specifically for free enterprise to use. Which is idiotic and ludicrous.

The crux of his point (which was off the teleprompter script, so they were his words) which has been lost in all of this, is this part, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

He was playing to his base with class warfare (which he is a master at, btw). He knows business owners don't believe the crap he had just spewed, but he knows his followers do believe it. So hey, the MAN owes me! I helped build his freaking business! THAT was the message. He was playing to his base plain and simple, and he got dinged for not sticking to his script. And he should have. It was an idiotic statement, and you folks that defend him here can't just admit that.

Quite a reach there. He certainly wasn't referring to the business based on the sentence following which clearly states that somebody else made that happen. It is infrastructure. Why should we admit it, when we think you are just plain reading it the way it suits you.

Hmm...playing to your base. Like Romney now being against a healthcare initiative that he sponsored in Massachusetts and wanting to defund Planned Parenthood to appeal to his evangelical base? It is Presidential election time. Light up the lies on both sides.

[soonercruiser]

.

No you are not honest about it. Conservative news and commentary absolutely dominate the market and yet you think the mainstream media has all the power. Tell me who on the left in the media who wields the kind of power Rush Limbaugh carries in American politics?

Is Rush on TV or cable??? Ever watch CBS, NBS, ABS, MSNBS, Sesame Street?
Surveys have shown that 87% of journalists self-identify as "liberal"!
What planet are you texting from Diver???
YOU, are not honest about this!

[LiveLaughLove]

Quite a reach there. He certainly wasn't referring to the business based on the sentence following which clearly states that somebody else made that happen. It is infrastructure. Why should we admit it, when we think you are just plain reading it the way it suits you.

Hmm...playing to your base. Like Romney now being against a healthcare initiative that he sponsored in Massachusetts and wanting to defund Planned Parenthood to appeal to his evangelical base? It is Presidential election time. Light up the lies on both sides.

Words matter. Especially to the greatest orator of our time. I know this because the media tells us so. Did I say that before?

Who's stretching to read it how they want? Me?

The man said THAT, THAT is not roads and bridges. He said roads and bridges, and THAT. He did not say "infrastructure" which IS singular and would have been grammatically correct. He said "roads and bridges", that's plural.

Plural would demand THOSE or THEM as I said before. He knows how to use the English language. He makes his living doing it.

He used THAT (singular) because he meant the singular item, the business.

The rest of your post is a deflection plain and simple. Romney isn't my chosen candidate, but he is the alternative to Obama. For me, that's about the easiest choice of my lifetime. I was too young to vote against Carter the first time.

[rock on sooner]

This is the greatest parsing of words since "It depends on what
the meaning of is, is.":glee:

[ictsooner7]

Wrong, as I have said before. They guy is supposedly the greatest orator of our time. I know this because the media keeps saying it.

He mocked successful business owners with the "there are lots of smart people, bunch of hard working people" stuff. He then went on to say, "roads and bridges", then "if you've got a business - you didn't build THAT".

He clearly was speaking about the singular item, ie, the BUSINESS. Had he been speaking about the plural items, the ROADS AND BRIDGES, he would have said THEM, or THOSE.

Say it out loud, it makes no sense. "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THAT." or, "Hey, those roads and bridges, you didn't build THOSE." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THEM." or, "Hey, your business, you didn't build THAT." He would have said THOSE or THEM if he had meant the roads and bridges. He didn't say THOSE or THEM because he wasn't referring to THEM. He had clearly switched thoughts to the business, THAT.

He then said "somebody else made THAT (again singular) happen. Twice he used THAT and didn't use THOSE or THEM, because he simply wasn't referring to THOSE roads and bridges.

He then rambles un-factually about the internet, twisting it to convey that somehow the internet was made specifically for free enterprise to use. Which is idiotic and ludicrous.

The crux of his point (which was off the teleprompter script, so they were his words) which has been lost in all of this, is this part, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

He was playing to his base with class warfare (which he is a master at, btw). He knows business owners don't believe the crap he had just spewed, but he knows his followers do believe it. So hey, the MAN owes me! I helped build his freaking business! THAT was the message. He was playing to his base plain and simple, and he got dinged for not sticking to his script. And he should have. It was an idiotic statement, and you folks that defend him here can't just admit that.

Look at the hoops you're jumping through to twist it. Watch the video, it is as plain as day he ment infrastructure. You are just Regurgitating rightwingnut talking points.

here is what the right sees:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8XhQfvpW8

Here is what he really said:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=192oEC5TX_Q

[LiveLaughLove]

This is the greatest parsing of words since "It depends on what
the meaning of is, is.":glee:

It's really quite simple and there's no true rebuttal to it, except to say he misspoke. Who Obama misspoke?! Heresy! He is the greatest orator of our time!













I know this because the media keeps telling me so. :)

[Skysooner]

He was playing to his base with class warfare (which he is a master at, btw). He knows business owners don't believe the crap he had just spewed, but he knows his followers do believe it. So hey, the MAN owes me! I helped build his freaking business! THAT was the message. He was playing to his base plain and simple, and he got dinged for not sticking to his script. And he should have. It was an idiotic statement, and you folks that defend him here can't just admit that.

Not a deflection at all. Just answering your point about appealing to your base. Romney is going against what he has campaigned on in the past, because he wants to be elected. You only assume at this point I'm an Obama supporter. I'm actually a Romney lean at this point because of Obama's energy policy, but it isn't "the easiest decision of my life". As I said once before, it is an exercise in futility to try and convince me you are right on many of the things you post. We are completely different in our approach to things, and I read Obama's speech just like ict does.

BTW, I do congratulate you on the post regarding the Mississippi church. That is so against what the Christian religion is all about.

[ictsooner7]

Anyone with a functional brain knows what Obammy meant. The problem here is you directed this at icky who does not have a functional brain.

CC&Dean notice I didn't start the insults.

[LiveLaughLove]

Look at the hoops you're jumping through to twist it. Watch the video, it is as plain as day he ment infrastructure. You are just Regurgitating rightwingnut talking points.

here is what the right sees:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8XhQfvpW8

Here is what he really said:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=192oEC5TX_Q

You know you've won an argument with ict, when he brings out the old "rightwingnut talking points". He's got nothing left from that point.

I've heard him several times now. Explain to me how THAT means THOSE Einstein. Explain to me how THOSE mean THAT, Hawking.

If you're so clear on what he said, then explain how the greatest orator of our time (I know this because the media tells me so all of the time) doesn't know plural from singular.

I'll be waiting, and waiting, and waiting. And none of you will answer it. You will just say, he didn't say that, when he clearly did. Or he didn't mean that, well, then why did he say it!

He said THAT, because he meant the business. He said it twice, not once, twice.

[badger]

CC&Dean notice I didn't start the insults.

That's not an insult. Functional brains are a hot commodity and hardly anyone has one, especially if the way to tell if you have one or not is being able to know exactly what President Obama means whenever he speaks.

The few that have functional brains are usually pretty bad off otherwise, like Stephen Hawking. The rest of us dum-dums only use 10 percent or so of our brains. That's hardly functional.

[badger]

I've heard him several times now. Explain to me how THAT means THOSE Einstein. Explain to me how THOSE mean THAT, Hawking.

As long as we're all talking about Hawking, one of my favorite interviews of his is here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html)


What is your I.Q.?

I have no idea. People who boast about their I.Q. are losers.

How can we know if you qualify as a genius physicist, as you are invariably described?

The media need superheroes in science just as in every sphere of life, but there is really a continuous range of abilities with no clear dividing line.

Are you saying you are not a genius?

I hope I'm near the upper end of the range.

With all your intense erudition, why do you bother writing pop-science books about the universe, the latest of which is the illustrated version of ''On the Shoulders of Giants''?

I want my books sold on airport bookstalls.

Are you always this cheerful?

Life would be tragic if it weren't funny.

Seriously, how do you keep your spirits up?

My expectations were reduced to zero when I was 21. Everything since then has been a bonus.

[LiveLaughLove]

Not a deflection at all. Just answering your point about appealing to your base. Romney is going against what he has campaigned on in the past, because he wants to be elected. You only assume at this point I'm an Obama supporter. I'm actually a Romney lean at this point because of Obama's energy policy, but it isn't "the easiest decision of my life". As I said once before, it is an exercise in futility to try and convince me you are right on many of the things you post. We are completely different in our approach to things, and I read Obama's speech just like ict does.

BTW, I do congratulate you on the post regarding the Mississippi church. That is so against what the Christian religion is all about.

I've read you say that you are Romney lean.

I think Romney is a politician so yeah I think he is going to play to the base. All I am saying is that was what Obama was doing here, and people can't just admit that. The twisting and contorting has been from Obama and his acolytes since the dust up. They want to squash what has been very damaging to him. But to try and say that it was twisted and contorted by the right is just laughable. They took him at his word. This has resonated because it IS painfully obvious what he was saying.

Appreciate the congratulations. It is very much against the Church that I know and love.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I stopped listening to National Progressive Radio years ago and have been happy ever since. I have been steadily working to defund National Progressive Radio ever since with frequent emails to my representatives.

[Curly Bill]

CC&Dean notice I didn't start the insults.

Oh snap! Hope I don't get the dog house!

edit...whoo-hoo! I see in the very next post that badj has my back! I'm golden! :)

[Skysooner]

All I am saying is that was what Obama was doing here, and people can't just admit that. The twisting and contorting has been from Obama and his acolytes since the dust up. They want to squash what has been very damaging to him. But to try and say that it was twisted and contorted by the right is just laughable. They took him at his word. This has resonated because it IS painfully obvious what he was saying.

We may have different interpretations of what was said, but I definitely see your sincerity here. I can't change the way I read it though. It was just as obvious to me in a different way. My wife read it and felt the same way, and she is more conservative than I am in general. It is just an interesting observation that we all see things through our own life experiences and belief systems. At least we have the right to disagree in this country without being sent to a concentration camp or killed outright. There are so many places in the world this is not true.

[badger]

Oh snap! Hope I don't get the dog house!

edit...whoo-hoo! I see in the very next post that badj has my back! I'm golden! :)

No you're not golden. I'm a poser-modador, not a real modador.

[LiveLaughLove]

We may have different interpretations of what was said, but I definitely see your sincerity here. I can't change the way I read it though. It was just as obvious to me in a different way. My wife read it and felt the same way, and she is more conservative than I am in general. It is just an interesting observation that we all see things through our own life experiences and belief systems. At least we have the right to disagree in this country without being sent to a concentration camp or killed outright. There are so many places in the world this is not true.

That's very true. Unless you speak out against the current PC flavor of the month. Then you might not get sent anywhere, but might get barred from, Oh I don't know, Chicago or Boston. :)

[soonerhubs]

I suppose the posts in this thread illustrate something that I had hoped NPR would make an effort to transcend: The petty things that are not real issues.

Perhaps I'm off base, but I feel that a fair story theme would have gone something like this:

An exploration of Romney's intentions for going to Europe. (Not speculation, but actual honest questions from his team as well as those around him.) I would even be open to a few comments from opposing sides.

Later in the same hour, a story could reflect President Obama's efforts to campaign, and any troubles that may be developing due to less finances.

Again, I have my own biases. However, I feel that as a publicly funded station that claims to be objective (YES they do claim this every time there is a pledge drive), they should work toward going after the real stories and strive to provide a balanced set of stories.

I honestly get the impression that NPR folks feel that they have to counterbalance the war chests that are relatively much larger on the side of the Republicans this year. The problem with this is that they lose credibility.

I'll continue to listen to NPR, but the grain of salt I take just got bigger, and that's disappointing.

Carry on with the petty fighting. ;)

[Skysooner]

That's very true. Unless you speak out against the current PC flavor of the month. Then you might not get sent anywhere, but might get barred from, Oh I don't know, Chicago or Boston. :)

PC is something I have always hated. I will avoid usage of terms that will get my friends of other races, etc. angry. Some care and some don't, but it always easier to avoid not to hurt.

[Skysooner]

I suppose the posts in this thread illustrate something that I had hoped NPR would make an effort to transcend: The petty things that are not real issues.

Perhaps I'm off base, but I feel that a fair story theme would have gone something like this:

An exploration of Romney's intentions for going to Europe. (Not speculation, but actual honest questions from his team as well as those around him.) I would even be open to a few comments from opposing sides.

Later in the same hour, a story could reflect President Obama's efforts to campaign, and any troubles that may be developing due to less finances.

Again, I have my own biases. However, I feel that as a publicly funded station that claims to be objective (YES they do claim this every time there is a pledge drive), they should work toward going after the real stories and strive to provide a balanced set of stories.

I honestly get the impression that NPR folks feel that they have to counterbalance the war chests that are relatively much larger on the side of the Republicans this year. The problem with this is that they lose credibility.

I'll continue to listen to NPR, but the grain of salt I take just got bigger, and that's disappointing.

Carry on with the petty fighting. ;)

I haven't listened to NPR in years. Primarily the broadcasting style is boring to me. What I will do is listen to XMs POTUS station that generally has reactions to the campaign, etc. I get just as mad at liberal broadcasts as well. I watch Bill Maher for entertainment, but when they bring up something like fracking where the misinformation is so ridiculous I lose it.

Interesting story from vacation. I was in a pool at a resort in Cabo. I met a married couple that were both professors from OU. He was a geophysics prof, and we debated fracking a bit. He has bought into the anti-fracking kool-aid a little bit too, but his information wasn't from great sources. He was generally on our side, but honestly with his degree, he should know quite a bit more. Of course he hadn't been in industry for 20 years or so. I know I'm biased to the other side a bit, but I see all of the data and am pretty well-informed. It just goes to show how easily influenced we are by all of the things we see and hear around us.

There are some small issues with fracking, but all of the doom and gloom you hear from the environmental crowd on this isn't right. Most of the issues are drilling and improper cementing of surface strings that are set to protect groundwater.

[diverdog]

Is Rush on TV or cable??? Ever watch CBS, NBS, ABS, MSNBS, Sesame Street?
Surveys have shown that 87% of journalists self-identify as "liberal"!
What planet are you texting from Diver???
YOU, are not honest about this!

GMAFB! The entire news broadcast in a single night ( all thee combined) is an hour and a half. Limbaugh rants for 3 full hours unchallenged on politics vs ( and I am stretching here) 30 minutes a night for the major networks. Rush claims a listenership of 20 million.

How many tv journalist have both a tv show and a radio show?

Conservatives dominate cable tv, the internet, radio and the alternative media. So all your whinning about the so called MSM is a joke. What makes it even funnier is that the NBC, ABC and CBS are owned by major corporations that hardly lean left.

You lean so far right that you are incapable of admitting that most news is politically nuetral and not always couched in political terms.

[olevetonahill]

CC&Dean notice I didn't start the insults.
If its thr Truth it aint an Insult just Fact

[okie52]

GMAFB! The entire news broadcast in a single night ( all thee combined) is an hour and a half. Limbaugh rants for 3 full hours unchallenged on politics vs ( and I am stretching here) 30 minutes a night for the major networks. Rush claims a listenership of 20 million.

How many tv journalist have both a tv show and a radio show?

Conservatives dominate cable tv, the internet, radio and the alternative media. So all your whinning about the so called MSM is a joke. What makes it even funnier is that the NBC, ABC and CBS are owned by major corporations that hardly lean left.

You lean so far right that you are incapable of admitting that most news is politically nuetral and not always couched in political terms.

You think GE leans right?

[LiveLaughLove]

GMAFB! The entire news broadcast in a single night ( all thee combined) is an hour and a half. Limbaugh rants for 3 full hours unchallenged on politics vs ( and I am stretching here) 30 minutes a night for the major networks. Rush claims a listenership of 20 million.

How many tv journalist have both a tv show and a radio show?

Conservatives dominate cable tv, the internet, radio and the alternative media. So all your whinning about the so called MSM is a joke. What makes it even funnier is that the NBC, ABC and CBS are owned by major corporations that hardly lean left.

You lean so far right that you are incapable of admitting that most news is politically nuetral and not always couched in political terms.

To the tune of 80+% journalists and reporters vote Dem. Show me a major college journalism professor that is conservative and I will show you 100 that are lib.

The owners of the stations have zero to do with the content. Fox is not conservative because of Murdoch. Heck, Murdock gave money to Hillary. It is conservative because of Ailes.

Name one of the anchors or main reporters on ABC, NBC, or CBS that even remotely leans right. You can't, because there aren't any.

And of course, you have conveniently left out the morning shows, and the Sunday shows on the main networks. All moderated by lefties and tilted left. Name one moderator of the three that hails from the Presidential team of a Bush or a Reagan. Just one.

The right has Fox News. Fox is by far the most popular simply because it doesn't scream leftist claptrap. No one forces people to watch Fox, and clearly it irritates the crap out of you that they do.

Radio is the primary bastion of the right. No one forces people to listen to them either. Yet they do, in droves. I wonder why a lefty isn't big timing it in radio.

There are some around the margins, but to be sure, they don't compare to the righties on radio. Why do you think that is?

So to sum up, you have ABC, CBS, NBC, msnbc, cnn, reuters, AP, npr, and we have Fox and the radio people. And yet, you **** and moan about us even having that.

Fox and Limbaugh must be demi-god like in power to wield such mind control over the country. Truly astounding.

[diverdog]

To the tune of 80+% journalists and reporters vote Dem. Show me a major college journalism professor that is conservative and I will show you 100 that are lib.

The owners of the stations have zero to do with the content. Fox is not conservative because of Murdoch. Heck, Murdock gave money to Hillary. It is conservative because of Ailes.

Name one of the anchors or main reporters on ABC, NBC, or CBS that even remotely leans right. You can't, because there aren't any.

And of course, you have conveniently left out the morning shows, and the Sunday shows on the main networks. All moderated by lefties and tilted left. Name one moderator of the three that hails from the Presidential team of a Bush or a Reagan. Just one.

The right has Fox News. Fox is by far the most popular simply because it doesn't scream leftist claptrap. No one forces people to watch Fox, and clearly it irritates the crap out of you that they do.

Radio is the primary bastion of the right. No one forces people to listen to them either. Yet they do, in droves. I wonder why a lefty isn't big timing it in radio.

There are some around the margins, but to be sure, they don't compare to the righties on radio. Why do you think that is?

So to sum up, you have ABC, CBS, NBC, msnbc, cnn, reuters, AP, npr, and we have Fox and the radio people. And yet, you **** and moan about us even having that.

Fox and Limbaugh must be demi-god like in power to wield such mind control over the country. Truly astounding.

Do you even watch ABC, NBC or CBS news. They spend about 10 minutes reporting politics. Most nights are filled with fires in the West, the Olympics, or some other stuff. The days of hard news by the likes of Cronkite are gone. The morning shows.....are you fricking kidding me? We tried to have them on in my office until the newscasters started to talking about female orgasms and pleasing their husbands. Good stuff for the public but hardly political news.

As for Fox I do not remember saying a word about them. But since you brought it up here are the rankings for the top cable news shows. Fox has the first 13. They dominate the entire list.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/101742758/Jul-12-P2-Cable-News-Ranker-1

Again, there is more than enough conservative news out there to match what you guys perceive as a liberal dominated media. The fact is it ain't true and conservative news and commentary is competing very well in most media. The bad news (well good news) is that righty talk is starting to lose some ratings.

[soonercruiser]

Do you even watch ABC, NBC or CBS news. They spend about 10 minutes reporting politics. Most nights are filled with fires in the West, the Olympics, or some other stuff. The days of hard news by the likes of Cronkite are gone. The morning shows.....are you fricking kidding me? We tried to have them on in my office until the newscasters started to talking about female orgasms and pleasing their husbands. Good stuff for the public but hardly political news.

As for Fox I do not remember saying a word about them. But since you brought it up here are the rankings for the top cable news shows. Fox has the first 13. They dominate the entire list.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101742758/Jul-12-P2-Cable-News-Ranker-1

Again, there is more than enough conservative news out there to match what you guys perceive as a liberal dominated media. The fact is it ain't true and conservative news and commentary is competing very well in most media. The bad news (well good news) is that righty talk is starting to lose some ratings.

So, you acknowledge where the vast majority of folks go to get the real cable "news"?

[soonercruiser]

That's not an insult. Functional brains are a hot commodity and hardly anyone has one, especially if the way to tell if you have one or not is being able to know exactly what President Obama means whenever he speaks.

The few that have functional brains are usually pretty bad off otherwise, like Stephen Hawking. The rest of us dum-dums only use 10 percent or so of our brains. That's hardly functional.

Bad news for some.
Brain transplants are not covered in the ACA.
2 years at Haavad, or Columbia are as close as you can get.
See FrankensteinGetsOne.com

[diverdog]

So, you acknowledge where the vast majority of folks go to get the real cable "news"?

Cruiser, I have nothing against so called conservative news. I watch Fox and listen to Bill O on the radio from time to time. What I have a problem with is all the handwringing you do over the so called MSM. They are no more influential than Fox or Rush or Hannity.

To prove my point in another thread someone stated that the MSM is not covering the Support Chick Fil A Day. And yet I see it on ABC News and USA Today.

[LiveLaughLove]

Do you even watch ABC, NBC or CBS news. They spend about 10 minutes reporting politics. Most nights are filled with fires in the West, the Olympics, or some other stuff. The days of hard news by the likes of Cronkite are gone. The morning shows.....are you fricking kidding me? We tried to have them on in my office until the newscasters started to talking about female orgasms and pleasing their husbands. Good stuff for the public but hardly political news.

As for Fox I do not remember saying a word about them. But since you brought it up here are the rankings for the top cable news shows. Fox has the first 13. They dominate the entire list.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/101742758/Jul-12-P2-Cable-News-Ranker-1

Again, there is more than enough conservative news out there to match what you guys perceive as a liberal dominated media. The fact is it ain't true and conservative news and commentary is competing very well in most media. The bad news (well good news) is that righty talk is starting to lose some ratings.

But the list doesn't include the mainstream channels. O'Reilley gets about 2.5 million viewers. The 3 major networks get almost 23 million viewers. Almost 10x's as many as Fox's most popular.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/category/evening-news-ratings

Conveniently left out. The fact is it is true. You're pissing on our backs and trying to tell us it's raining.

[soonercruiser]

A picture is worth a thousand "Aaaahhhhhs"!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/Imadethisbusiness.jpg

[diverdog]

But the list doesn't include the mainstream channels. O'Reilley gets about 2.5 million viewers. The 3 major networks get almost 23 million viewers. Almost 10x's as many as Fox's most popular.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/category/evening-news-ratings

Conveniently left out. The fact is it is true. You're pissing on our backs and trying to tell us it's raining.

Sunday, July 29: 14,469,000 (vs. 14,371,000 for first Sunday in Beijing) And Rush has 15,000,000 listeners for 3 hours a day. So I would say they are even.

[diverdog]

A picture is worth a thousand "Aaaahhhhhs"!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/Imadethisbusiness.jpg

So how much of that lumber he sells was harvested on federal lands at below market cost or USDA price supports?

[LiveLaughLove]

So how much of that lumber he sells was harvested on federal lands at below market cost or USDA price supports?

You are seriously eat up with it.

[diverdog]

You are seriously eat up with it.

Nope. I just realize that without the relationship between the business community and the government our economy would be dead.

Just to go one step further do you think all that fire fighting that is being done in the western forest is being paid for by the timber companies? Those forest all burn down then I think Mr. Gaster may have to get another line of business.

[LiveLaughLove]

No one has ever claimed there isn't a role for government. But did government create that business? Heck no. That family did, and good for them for proclaiming it (even though I wouldn't use the wording they did).

They owe me nothing. Obama and those stuck up his keester, seem to think they owe a lot more to everyone.

Do you think those firefighters are paid for by the poor? Do you think the government pays them? Heck no. Business owners and the rich pay for them through the government.

The government can't squat to pee without someone else paying for it. So spare me.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Nope. I just realize that without the relationship between the business community and the government our economy would be dead.

Just to go one step further do you think all that fire fighting that is being done in the western forest is being paid for by the timber companies? Those forest all burn down then I think Mr. Gaster may have to get another line of business.
Repeating above me, Mr. Gaster and the Timber Companies could surely use the tax money they loose to the gov't to cover private firefighting with some left to spare.

[LiveLaughLove]

So you stated that you have or will have raised 12 children. I am guessing you are in the 50% who pay little to no income tax.

Well, I'm not in the 1% for sure. But I think I pay way more than I should be paying. I would say I am in the upper 25% anyway. I know I have considered leaving Oklahoma and moving to Texas because of our state taxes.

I can work my business from anywhere that I can have hi speed and wi fi, so I am not pinned to any one location really.

[diverdog]

Well, I'm not in the 1% for sure. But I think I pay way more than I should be paying. I would say I am in the upper 25% anyway. I know I have considered leaving Oklahoma and moving to Texas because of our state taxes.

I can work my business from anywhere that I can have hi speed and wi fi, so I am not pinned to any one location really.

Sorry that was a cheap shot and I tried to delete the post before you read it.

Do you really have 12 kids? Are you LDS by chance?

[LiveLaughLove]

. Sorry that was a cheap shot and I tried to delete the post before you read it.

hehe no prob. Sorry I was too fast. I'm bored tonight, so just sitting here. Which is kind of nice for a change.

[okie52]

I haven't listened to NPR in years. Primarily the broadcasting style is boring to me. What I will do is listen to XMs POTUS station that generally has reactions to the campaign, etc. I get just as mad at liberal broadcasts as well. I watch Bill Maher for entertainment, but when they bring up something like fracking where the misinformation is so ridiculous I lose it.

Interesting story from vacation. I was in a pool at a resort in Cabo. I met a married couple that were both professors from OU. He was a geophysics prof, and we debated fracking a bit. He has bought into the anti-fracking kool-aid a little bit too, but his information wasn't from great sources. He was generally on our side, but honestly with his degree, he should know quite a bit more. Of course he hadn't been in industry for 20 years or so. I know I'm biased to the other side a bit, but I see all of the data and am pretty well-informed. It just goes to show how easily influenced we are by all of the things we see and hear around us.

There are some small issues with fracking, but all of the doom and gloom you hear from the environmental crowd on this isn't right. Most of the issues are drilling and improper cementing of surface strings that are set to protect groundwater.

I would live to hear a geophysicist explain to me about "bad fracking".

[okie52]

We may have different interpretations of what was said, but I definitely see your sincerity here. I can't change the way I read it though. It was just as obvious to me in a different way. My wife read it and felt the same way, and she is more conservative than I am in general. It is just an interesting observation that we all see things through our own life experiences and belief systems. At least we have the right to disagree in this country without being sent to a concentration camp or killed outright. There are so many places in the world this is not true.

Well I read it and heard him...to me Obama sounded like a guy that shouted fire in a movie theater 100 times and then quietly said just kidding. Maybe that's just me but I've seen this guy scream about tax write offs to oil and gas industry that amount to $4,000,000,000 a year and then give a $60,000,000,000 tax exemption to unions...regardless of income.

[Skysooner]

Well I read it and heard him...to me Obama sounded like a guy that shouted fire in a movie theater 100 times and then quietly said just kidding. Maybe that's just me but I've seen this guy scream about tax write offs to oil and gas industry that amount to $4,000,000,000 a year and then give a $60,000,000,000 tax exemption to unions...regardless of income.

It is just the way things are. We see things through our own experiences. There are several posters on here that are equally as adamant as me as to what we meant. Regardless the demonization of the oil industry when many other industries get the same exact tax break doesn't make me feel like voting for Obama.

I was wondering what that geophysicist meant too. My master's thesis is in geomechanics, so I have a pretty good idea about how things works plus I work with all of the bright boys in our company. There is bad fracking, but it is primarily associated with strike-slip faulting in an area under tension. The primary stress direction has to be different than what it was when the faults formed, and the horizontal well has to be at a certain angle from the fault. Basically what happens here is that the water causes the faults to slip which induces earthquakes. These are only small 2-3 magnitude, but on a local level can be felt. The real kicker is that when you frack in a situation like this, the frac plane goes nowhere. It is a convoluted stress regime mess down there. We get no production out of fracks like that in tight shales. We avoid those like the plague now and just skip those areas. The really funny part is that there are only two known places in the world this happens (one was in England and the other in NW Canada). It is a very, very limited effect.

[rock on sooner]

Hey, Sky, interesting explanation, thanks! The argument I've heard is
about chemical leaks into ground water. Is that the case? Years ago,
when I was a really young pup I heard operators talking about sand
fracking, as opposed to chemicals, can you explain? Thanks again!

[Skysooner]

Hey, Sky, interesting explanation, thanks! The argument I've heard is
about chemical leaks into ground water. Is that the case? Years ago,
when I was a really young pup I heard operators talking about sand
fracking, as opposed to chemicals, can you explain? Thanks again!

The whole chemical leaking into ground water is mostly bunk. We are fracking thousands of feet below the ground water plus there is a minimum of 2 strings of steel casing (and at least one completely cemented) across the ground water. What can happen is that if the drilling rig doesn't get the surface casing (the string of pipe that protects ground water) set properly with cement, there can be drilling mud that leaks into the ground water. We are required to test surface casing though to ensure proper cement though before we drill further, so the risks here should be minimized. What can happen though is that you can small mom and pop operators that can't compete with the big boys and cut corners a bit. What should happen is better regulation of the surface casing design.

All fracs have chemicals. Sand fracking is just sand contained within water or diesel that has been made viscous by the addition of a gelling agent. This is what allows water to carry up to 12-16 pounds per gallon of sand downhole. This gel eventually breaks due to time or heat. The sand is left in place, and the water is produced back. Now, what is done with the water can be an issue. In Pennsylvania, they were hauling it to water treatment plants and those plants weren't able to handle the volume. In places like Oklahoma and Texas, it is mostly disposed of in commercial injection wells that put the water way down in the earth. Just like any other business though, you can have trucking companies that will dump water where they shouldn't. Fracking the process is perfectly safe. It is the produced water that is the really big issue. Just like when old time industry would dump toxic waste in surface streams it can be a big deal. The key is to get the trucking companies and operators to be held responsible for dumping operations. Massive fines would stop this really quickly.

What you saw in Gasland about tap water being on fire has mostly happened in areas where there were previously coal mines which are near groundwater sources. There have also been a couple of cases where methane producing bacteria are present in groundwater naturally. As far as I remember, there was only one situation where contamination occurred that was validated by outside sources in Gasland, and it was a drilling issue by Chesapeake Energy as I recall now.

[okie52]

It is just the way things are. We see things through our own experiences. There are several posters on here that are equally as adamant as me as to what we meant. Regardless the demonization of the oil industry when many other industries get the same exact tax break doesn't make me feel like voting for Obama.

I was wondering what that geophysicist meant too. My master's thesis is in geomechanics, so I have a pretty good idea about how things works plus I work with all of the bright boys in our company. There is bad fracking, but it is primarily associated with strike-slip faulting in an area under tension. The primary stress direction has to be different than what it was when the faults formed, and the horizontal well has to be at a certain angle from the fault. Basically what happens here is that the water causes the faults to slip which induces earthquakes. These are only small 2-3 magnitude, but on a local level can be felt. The real kicker is that when you frack in a situation like this, the frac plane goes nowhere. It is a convoluted stress regime mess down there. We get no production out of fracks like that in tight shales. We avoid those like the plague now and just skip those areas. The really funny part is that there are only two known places in the world this happens (one was in England and the other in NW Canada). It is a very, very limited effect.

I thought the quakes were also thought to have been caused to some degree in the Utica on the same fault situation you described.

[okie52]

The whole chemical leaking into ground water is mostly bunk. We are fracking thousands of feet below the ground water plus there is a minimum of 2 strings of steel casing (and at least one completely cemented) across the ground water. What can happen is that if the drilling rig doesn't get the surface casing (the string of pipe that protects ground water) set properly with cement, there can be drilling mud that leaks into the ground water. We are required to test surface casing though to ensure proper cement though before we drill further, so the risks here should be minimized. What can happen though is that you can small mom and pop operators that can't compete with the big boys and cut corners a bit. What should happen is better regulation of the surface casing design.

All fracs have chemicals. Sand fracking is just sand contained within water or diesel that has been made viscous by the addition of a gelling agent. This is what allows water to carry up to 12-16 pounds per gallon of sand downhole. This gel eventually breaks due to time or heat. The sand is left in place, and the water is produced back. Now, what is done with the water can be an issue. In Pennsylvania, they were hauling it to water treatment plants and those plants weren't able to handle the volume. In places like Oklahoma and Texas, it is mostly disposed of in commercial injection wells that put the water way down in the earth. Just like any other business though, you can have trucking companies that will dump water where they shouldn't. Fracking the process is perfectly safe. It is the produced water that is the really big issue. Just like when old time industry would dump toxic waste in surface streams it can be a big deal. The key is to get the trucking companies and operators to be held responsible for dumping operations. Massive fines would stop this really quickly.

What you saw in Gasland about tap water being on fire has mostly happened in areas where there were previously coal mines which are near groundwater sources. There have also been a couple of cases where methane producing bacteria are present in groundwater naturally. As far as I remember, there was only one situation where contamination occurred that was validated by outside sources in Gasland, and it was a drilling issue by Chesapeake Energy as I recall now.

I thought on gasland it was shown that the gas in the groundwater was naturally occurring methane...certainly nothing to do with fracking. I hadn't heard about any mining aspects.

What I've seen stated by many idiots in the Sierra Club was that fracking was contaminating ground water through migration of the frack fluids to the surface through the fractures created in the formations...so implausible a concept that it would be laughable except these morons really believe it.

[Skysooner]

I thought on gasland it was shown that the gas in the groundwater was naturally occurring methane...certainly nothing to do with fracking. I hadn't heard about any mining aspects.

What I've seen stated by many idiots in the Sierra Club was that fracking was contaminating ground water through migration of the frack fluids to the surface through the fractures created in the formations...so implausible a concept that it would be laughable except these morons really believe it.

The Utica was caused by commercial disposals and exactly in the same way as you said. There is just a ton more water that goes into those wells, so the effect can be pushed out farther.

You are right that in Gasland it was either naturally occurring, but I remember our company review said at least one was in an area where there were old coal mines where methane seep made it into the groundwater. There was the one drilling situation as well, but I believe that is before CHK had any of their rigs up there. I think it was a local outfit.

[rock on sooner]

I assume the water needing treatment is pretty toxic and would
sterilize topsoil. That would account for a lot of the really bad looking
yellowish sandy type soil that I remember as a boy on some oil leases,
especially the one I lived on. Back then, the culprits were more than
just mom & pop folks...some independent fair sized outfits were involved.

I guess once in a while gov't regulations pay dividends. Good info, I'm
better informed, but I doubt the Sierra Club et al will stop over reacting.
I agree with them sometimes but they really go too far fairly often.

[okie52]

I assume the water needing treatment is pretty toxic and would
sterilize topsoil. That would account for a lot of the really bad looking
yellowish sandy type soil that I remember as a boy on some oil leases,
especially the one I lived on. Back then, the culprits were more than
just mom & pop folks...some independent fair sized outfits were involved.

I guess once in a while gov't regulations pay dividends. Good info, I'm
better informed, but I doubt the Sierra Club et al will stop over reacting.
I agree with them sometimes but they really go too far fairly often.

It sounds like you were on a very old oil lease. I don't even know if fracks or frack fluids were the issue there...could have salt water from the well coupled with oil, bad cement jobs, etc...

The owner of the land can call OERB and they will often come out and clean up a site for free (if abandoned) or call the Corporation Commission and they will get on the operator to get it cleaned up.

[Skysooner]

I assume the water needing treatment is pretty toxic and would
sterilize topsoil. That would account for a lot of the really bad looking
yellowish sandy type soil that I remember as a boy on some oil leases,
especially the one I lived on. Back then, the culprits were more than
just mom & pop folks...some independent fair sized outfits were involved.

I guess once in a while gov't regulations pay dividends. Good info, I'm
better informed, but I doubt the Sierra Club et al will stop over reacting.
I agree with them sometimes but they really go too far fairly often.

I have seen those as well. Those were definitely the older days. I have only been a part of the "modern" oil industry that is much more environmentally sensitive. There were places near Perry in the old days that they flowed oil over the ground for a couple of miles down to rail depots for pickup. Some of those are Superfund sites now.

[diverdog]

I thought on gasland it was shown that the gas in the groundwater was naturally occurring methane...certainly nothing to do with fracking. I hadn't heard about any mining aspects.

What I've seen stated by many idiots in the Sierra Club was that fracking was contaminating ground water through migration of the frack fluids to the surface through the fractures created in the formations...so implausible a concept that it would be laughable except these morons really believe it.

You will be happy to know that I paid my Sierra Club dues with my small royalty check. :)

[okie52]

You will be happy to know that I paid my Sierra Club dues with my small royalty check. :)

LOL...they might take your dirty oil money...just not Aubrey's.

[rock on sooner]

It sounds like you were on a very old oil lease. I don't even know if fracks or frack fluids were the issue there...could have salt water from the well coupled with oil, bad cement jobs, etc...

The owner of the land can call OERB and they will often come out and clean up a site for free (if abandoned) or call the Corporation Commission and they will get on the operator to get it cleaned up.

Okie, fair to say older..didn't have indoor toilet until I was 11 or 12. The wells
were shallow and ran dry in '65, I left in '63 and family moved in '64 when some
outfit bought the lease out from under my folks. I went back years later and
there'd been no cleanup. Prolly was salt water 'cause any fracking I knew about
was up around Duncan...couple guys I roustabouted for were doing it....

[ictsooner7]

No one has ever claimed there isn't a role for government. But did government create that business? Heck no. That family did, and good for them for proclaiming it (even though I wouldn't use the wording they did).

They owe me nothing. Obama and those stuck up his keester, seem to think they owe a lot more to everyone.

Do you think those firefighters are paid for by the poor? Do you think the government pays them? Heck no. Business owners and the rich pay for them through the government.

The government can't squat to pee without someone else paying for it. So spare me.

Did Ray Gaster build the roads and infrastructure his trucks drive on? Did Ray Gaster pay all of the taxes for the roads and infrastructure his trucks drive on?

NO!

Never let the truth get in the way of a good argument.

Yes the poor do pay for firefighters. Saying they don’t just show you don’t know a thing about how local government is funded. Only business owners and the rich pay property taxes? Only business owners and the rich pay sales taxes? Only business owners and the rich pay fees and fines? Don’t look now but your ignorance is showing. You have drunk so much rightwingnut kool-aid that you really think Only business owners and the rich pay taxes? Unless, of course, you’re Mitt Romney who won’t prove he did pay taxes. Look at GE who not only didn’t pay taxes they got a CREDIT! As a percent of gross income, adding all taxes, fees ect the poor pay a much higher percent than the rich. Why do you think the rich, well rich rightwingers, want a national sales tax, the value added tax, to replace the income tax?

[soonerhubs]

I think I need to start another thread asking someone to show me the objectivity of NPR.


Some of you squirrels bicker like 5-year-olds over a Tonka truck.

[soonercruiser]

Did Ray Gaster build the roads and infrastructure his trucks drive on? Did Ray Gaster pay all of the taxes for the roads and infrastructure his trucks drive on?

NO!

Never let the truth get in the way of a good argument.



Did the government itself "make" the money for roads and bridges??
(other than the Fed printing more...?)

No!

Don't let the facts get in the way....that we pay multiple levels of taxes for roads and bridges, fire and police protection, and public services!

And, those so-called public servants make a lot more cash on-the-job than the average taxpayer!
:sleeping:

[LiveLaughLove]

The MSM almost completely ignored the success of the Chick-fil-A appreciation day. Didn't make the front page of any major newspapers, barely mentioned on any news stations.

One CBS affiliate was at a Chick-fil-A and appeared to be looking to park to take video of the day. A person pointed out a parking spot and the CBS van driver said, nah we're leaving, we thought this was a protest. we aren't interested in videoing the appreciation day.

Tomorrow is the kiss in protest day against CFA. I wonder how much coverage that will get by the MSM. Something tells me much more, and there won't be a third or even quarter of the people that turned out for CFA.

I'm reminded of the national right to life march in DC. There were tens of thousands there, but a protest group of about 25 was what got all of the coverage. One Chicago station had a slideshow of like 15 pictures, and every single one was of the protesters, not the actual marchers.

Yeah, there's no bias though. I'm just a rightwingnutjob.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

DD, don't forget about Beck, Hannity, Coulter. Couple of times
that Coulter has been on This Week on Sunday mornings, she
does the same thing every time...talks over whoever she disagrees
with, raises her voice, says "let me finish" yadda, yadda and
spouts her drivel. I'm reminded of when Rush had his tv show..
couldn't be in the audience unless you were in jacket and tie and
absolutely could not disagree. Rush cuts off any caller who gets
by his screener that takes issue with anything he spouts....You guys just continue to lie, and apparently it doesn't bother you in the least. Limbaugh welcomes and invites libs on his show to spout their misinformed, dishonest and wrong nonsense. He deals with them rationally, and they always wind up looking like the fools they are. He goes out of his way to be polite, and almost invariably they come unglued, usually calling him an addict, or some other name.

IOW, if you want to comment on Limbaugh's show, you ought to listen to it, and comment on it honestly.

[diverdog]

LOL...they might take your dirty oil money...just not Aubrey's.

Mom just leased one of her farms last week. She proceeded to hand me a check and said "here put this toward the kids college fund". Made me feel really dirty but I took it anyway. :). I have now doomed the planet and the rest of mankind by selling out so cheaply.

[diverdog]

The MSM almost completely ignored the success of the Chick-fil-A appreciation day. Didn't make the front page of any major newspapers, barely mentioned on any news stations.

One CBS affiliate was at a Chick-fil-A and appeared to be looking to park to take video of the day. A person pointed out a parking spot and the CBS van driver said, nah we're leaving, we thought this was a protest. we aren't interested in videoing the appreciation day.

Tomorrow is the kiss in protest day against CFA. I wonder how much coverage that will get by the MSM. Something tells me much more, and there won't be a third or even quarter of the people that turned out for CFA.

I'm reminded of the national right to life march in DC. There were tens of thousands there, but a protest group of about 25 was what got all of the coverage. One Chicago station had a slideshow of like 15 pictures, and every single one was of the protesters, not the actual marchers.



Yeah, there's no bias though. I'm just a rightwingnutjob.

Okay you have pointed to the exact problem that I have with you and cruiser.'
The media did cover this story and it was on the front page of USAToday and many other newspapers in these parts. I also saw it on the major news networks. As one of my friends in Rotary said you would have had to have your head buried in the sand not to have heard about the protest.

Secondly this is not a big story. Last night the news covered the olympics, fighting in Syria and the drought. All far more important than covering a bunch of people eating chicken. If the news is not bashing Obama or the Dems 24/7 you guys are not happy.

[diverdog]

You guys just continue to lie, and apparently it doesn't bother you in the least. Limbaugh welcomes and invites libs on his show to spout their misinformed, dishonest and wrong nonsense. He deals with them rationally, and they always wind up looking like the fools they are. He goes out of his way to be polite, and almost invariably they come unglued, usually calling him an addict, or some other name.

IOW, if you want to comment on Limbaugh's show, you ought to listen to it, and comment on it honestly.

He invites librals on his show..... Are you kidding me? He may let a plant through but that is it. Limbaugh will never publically debate a liberal unless he is in complete and total control of the situation. At least Bill O and Hannity will debate liberals. We Irish never back down from a good fight. On the other hand Rush is a ***** and he cowers behind his mic.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He invites librals on his show..... Are you kidding me? He may let a plant through but that is it. Limbaugh will never publically debate a liberal unless he is in complete and total control of the situation. At least Bill O and Hannity will debate liberals. We Irish never back down from a good fight. On the other hand Rush is a ***** and he cowers behind his mic.You are either fibbing or don't know what you are talking about. He has some lib callers on intentionally who the screeners think will be reasonably calm, and not spitting idiots. Some of them do turn out to be crazed fools, though, instead of just fools.

Most of his audience doesn't enjoy listening to someone fielding stupid arrows all the time. It is NOT interesting or entertaining. The show intends to have callers that are interesting and articulate, and who TRY to be rationale. Unfortunately, that rules out a lot of the lib field. Unfortunately, though, some of them have figured out how to vote.

[soonercruiser]

Mom just leased one of her farms last week. She proceeded to hand me a check and said "here put this toward the kids college fund". Made me feel really dirty but I took it anyway. :). I have now doomed the planet and the rest of mankind by selling out so cheaply.

Be sure to remind the kids they wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Obama........er...Grandma!
:beaten:

[soonercruiser]

Okay you have pointed to the exact problem that I have with you and cruiser.'
The media did cover this story and it was on the front page of USAToday and many other newspapers in these parts. I also saw it on the major news networks. As one of my friends in Rotary said you would have had to have your head buried in the sand not to have heard about the protest.

Secondly this is not a big story. Last night the news covered the olympics, fighting in Syria and the drought. All far more important than covering a bunch of people eating chicken. If the news is not bashing Obama or the Dems 24/7 you guys are not happy.

Kinda what I would expect from a One-World-Gobment liberal like you, Diver.
This is the problem I have with people like you...!
What goes on in America is not important!
Freedom in the USA, speech, religion, or otherwise is not important.....when the big story, the US economy, is not fit to report!

So great! Some of the MSM couldn't avoid reporting Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day....thanks to Gov. Huckabee!
But, they spend 30 seconds on the story, ONCE!
And, they will spend days, and dozens of times on stories on Harry Reid's secret source of the rumor that Romney hasn't paid taxes for 10 years!
DUH! You don't get it, do ya???
:stupid:

[soonercruiser]

You are either fibbing or don't know what you are talking about. He has some lib callers on intentionally who the screeners think will be reasonably calm, and not spitting idiots. Some of them do turn out to be crazed fools, though, instead of just fools.

Most of his audience doesn't enjoy listening to someone fielding stupid arrows all the time. It is NOT interesting or entertaining. The show intends to have callers that are interesting and articulate, and who TRY to be rationale. Unfortunately, that rules out a lot of the lib field. Unfortunately, though, some of them have figured out how to vote.

You are waisting your time with Diver, Rush.
People like him only swallow the koolaid from LW web sites, and repeat what they are fed from LW talking points.

I have to hand it to Jon Stewart for poking fun at Harry Reid.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entertainment/television/NATL-Stewart-Rips-into-Harry-Reid-Channels-Ghost-of-Mitt-Romneys-Father-164721376.html

[rock on sooner]

You guys just continue to lie, and apparently it doesn't bother you in the least. Limbaugh welcomes and invites libs on his show to spout their misinformed, dishonest and wrong nonsense. He deals with them rationally, and they always wind up looking like the fools they are. He goes out of his way to be polite, and almost invariably they come unglued, usually calling him an addict, or some other name.

IOW, if you want to comment on Limbaugh's show, you ought to listen to it, and comment on it honestly.

Rightie definition of polite...call a Georgetown female student a slut!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rightie definition of polite...call a Georgetown female student a slut!Spending $30Kper year on contraception, and wanting the taxpayers or the university to pick up the tab...now that's CHUTZPAH, and deserves the title slut, for sure. Thanks for pointing out that outrage again. It DID deserve further scrutiny.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You are waisting your time with Diver, Rush.
People like him only swallow the koolaid from LW web sites, and repeat what they are fed from LW talking points.

I have to hand it to Jon Stewart for poking fun at Harry Reid.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entertainment/television/NATL-Stewart-Rips-into-Harry-Reid-Channels-Ghost-of-Mitt-Romneys-Father-164721376.htmlI don't expect to convert any libs. Their thought processes aren't logical, and they are very dishonest. Sometimes though, I just feel like calling one out. They always attempt to deceive, and sometimes I just want to say something about it.

[rock on sooner]

Spending $30Kper year on contraception, and wanting the taxpayers or the university to pick up the tab...now that's CHUTZPAH, and deserves the title slut, for sure. Thanks for pointing out that outrage again. It DID deserve further scrutiny.

Ya know, it's more fun to argue with a brick wall than it is with
some of the folks on here, mostly because the intellect level
is much higher...carry on.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Ya know, it's more fun to argue with a brick wall than it is with
some of the folks on here, mostly because the intellect level
is much higher...carry on.Occasionally, like now, we agree.

[LiveLaughLove]

Okay you have pointed to the exact problem that I have with you and cruiser.'
The media did cover this story and it was on the front page of USAToday and many other newspapers in these parts. I also saw it on the major news networks. As one of my friends in Rotary said you would have had to have your head buried in the sand not to have heard about the protest.

Secondly this is not a big story. Last night the news covered the olympics, fighting in Syria and the drought. All far more important than covering a bunch of people eating chicken. If the news is not bashing Obama or the Dems 24/7 you guys are not happy.

Okay you have pointed to the exact problem that I have with you and other libs.


But you wouldn't know anything about the national phenomenon by reading the front pages of most of the country's leading newspapers. There's no mention of Chick-fil-A on the front pages of the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, and the Boston Globe. The front pages of USA Today, the Dallas Morning News, and the Houston Chronicle have small headlines about the restaurant, while Chick-fil-A's hometown paper, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, fits in a story below the fold under the heading, "Chick-fil-A Controversy." And the front pages of major news websites are quiet in their coverage as well.

You take one small headline in the USA Today and say that it represents all of media. CBS didn't cover it at all. NBC, and ABC had fair coverage but more from the anti-gay angle than the freedom of speech being squelched by government officials angle.

Secondly, this is a big story because of the grass roots nature of such a large outpouring of support. It's not a big story because it doesn't fit the liberal meme.

I went to Chick-fil-A today and ate. There were no gays protesting there at all. There were over 500k signatures supporting Huckabees Appreciation Day. There have been 13k supporting the gay kiss in. Guess which one will get covered far more by the MSM?

[diverdog]

You are either fibbing or don't know what you are talking about. He has some lib callers on intentionally who the screeners think will be reasonably calm, and not spitting idiots. Some of them do turn out to be crazed fools, though, instead of just fools.

Most of his audience doesn't enjoy listening to someone fielding stupid arrows all the time. It is NOT interesting or entertaining. The show intends to have callers that are interesting and articulate, and who TRY to be rationale. Unfortunately, that rules out a lot of the lib field. Unfortunately, though, some of them have figured out how to vote.



I listened to Limbaugh for years when I was an outside sales person because it was the only radio show I could get. He rarely allowed liberals to call in and he never invited professional liberals on his show for debates. Yes he would allow an occasional liberal caller on and most of the time they had to fool the screener to get through to Limbaugh.

Most of Limbaugh's audience does not want to think nor do they want their little view of the world challenged. I am sure you think that Reagan was the greatest conservative to ever live and you do not want to hear the fact that he raised taxes every chance he got. Nor did he tell you he wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons or that he locked in more wilderness than any president since Roosevelt.

[diverdog]

Kinda what I would expect from a One-World-Gobment liberal like you, Diver.
This is the problem I have with people like you...!
What goes on in America is not important!
Freedom in the USA, speech, religion, or otherwise is not important.....when the big story, the US economy, is not fit to report!

So great! Some of the MSM couldn't avoid reporting Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day....thanks to Gov. Huckabee!
But, they spend 30 seconds on the story, ONCE!
And, they will spend days, and dozens of times on stories on Harry Reid's secret source of the rumor that Romney hasn't paid taxes for 10 years!
DUH! You don't get it, do ya???
:stupid:

What the hell are you talking about?

BTW the average nightly news story is about 30 seconds. Do you really think this needs to be covered more than the war in Syria or the Olympics or the economy (which gets reported on all the time)?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I listened to Limbaugh for years when I was an outside sales person because it was the only radio show I could get. He rarely allowed liberals to call in and he never invited professional liberals on his show for debates. Yes he would allow an occasional liberal caller on and most of the time they had to fool the screener to get through to Limbaugh.

Most of Limbaugh's audience does not want to think nor do they want their little view of the world challenged. I am sure you think that Reagan was the greatest conservative to ever live and you do not want to hear the fact that he raised taxes every chance he got. Nor did he tell you he wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons or that he locked in more wilderness than any president since Roosevelt.He has had libs with various backgrounds on his show, forewver. He challenges them with facts and known results of their actions vs conservative actions and they always end up lashing out with insults. Face it, socialism sucks, it's against human nature, and against the law in our beloved country.

Most of Limbaugh[s audience is already WAY sick and tired of hearing/reading liberall bullsh*t, and they appreciate that Limbaugh doesn't worry about being characterized by the Left as unfair. Reagan lowered taxes in a very big way when he was pres. That's why the economy rebounded. You SHOULD know that. If you don't, the what the heck is wrong with you? He DID rebuild the military from the depths Carter took it to. That is one of the valid functions of govt. You SHOULD know that, too. You're going to have to elaborate on locking in wilderness. I thought it was Carter that went totally nuts on the state of alaska.

[rock on sooner]

He has had libs with various backgrounds on his show, forewver. He challenges them with facts and known results of their actions vs conservative actions and they always end up lashing out with insults. Face it, socialism sucks, it's against human nature, and against the law in our beloved country.

Most of Limbaugh[s audience is already WAY sick and tired of hearing/reading liberall bullsh*t, and they appreciate that Limbaugh doesn't worry about being characterized by the Left as unfair. Reagan lowered taxes in a very big way when he was pres. That's why the economy rebounded. You SHOULD know that. If you don't, the what the heck is wrong with you? He DID rebuild the military from the depths Carter took it to. That is one of the valid functions of govt. You SHOULD know that, too. You're going to have to elaborate on locking in wilderness. I thought it was Carter that went totally nuts on the state of alaska.

Reagan lowered taxes, every chance he got? You have GOT to be kidding!!!
18 frickin' times, EIGHTEEN!! You guys talk about koolaid? By the firickin'
gallon, here's the wall I mentioned earlier. Scream the same crap all the time
and your dimwitted, unthinking, happy as a clam numnuts will believe you and
follow you over the cliff. Trickle down? Supply side? Top side first? EVERY
time the Right has tried that, we all get f***** and, yet, you keep wanting to
repeat it, and what is so sad is there are enough people that keep drinking and
stagger to the polls...it took Clinton 8 years to fix Bush + Reagan. After Bush Jr.
and his 8 years, you expect Obama/Dems to fix his frickin' mess in 4. No way,
can't be done, especially with the "My way or No way" group that showed up in
2010. Sorry, said that I wasn't going to argue with a brick wall, but I was overcome.

[rock on sooner]

Oh my bad, I went back and checked, I was wrong, Reagan only raised
taxes 11 or 12 (depending on whose counting) times, not 18...gotta
be accurate...

[diverdog]

nm

[soonercruiser]

What the hell are you talking about?

BTW the average nightly news story is about 30 seconds. Do you really think this needs to be covered more than the war in Syria or the Olympics or the economy (which gets reported on all the time)?

Come on Diver!
Don't be such a butt head!
You know what I'm talking about.....the amount of time, and the many times they will trash the right.
Versus reporting anything on the dastardly things done by the Left.
Pretty much a one-way street.

[soonerhubs]

Mara liasson was hard at it with her Clinton campaign 4 years early. I heard Mara's "unbiased" report this morning, and it reminded me that monotone voices don't ensure objectivity. Shameless & Mindless shill: http://www.mrc.org/biasalerts/npr-boosts-fireproof-hillarys-possible-2016-run-two-clinton-associates-only-talking-heads