Curious about the regressive nature of the healthcare tax

[jkjsooner]

One side effect of the individual mandate is that it is essentially a very regressive tax. In fact some liberal groups have a serious problem with this.

Questions:

1. Do you think the conservatives are going to directly pounce on this or does this deviate too far from their tax ideology. It would be hard to make this argument while continuing to argue that the poor don't pay their share of taxes.

2. Would it be possible to create a PAC that disguises itself as a liberal leaning group and use this PAC to attack Obama on the regressive nature of Obamacare? I'm sure it wouldn't take long for the media to uncover the nature/motivations of the PAC but I'm not sure that would make any difference politically.

I guess #2 might be difficult simply because you have to give your group a name and a liberal sounding name might not attract conservative voters. You could have a conservative PAC as a front which outsources its work to a PAC with a liberal sounding name.


BTW, I think you all know that I don't condone this type of misleading campaign and on this issue it doesn't fit me politically but I'm asking these questions simple out of curiosity.

[cleller]

Don't have any answers, but give you credit for coining "healthcare tax" here. Sure we'll be hearing the term A LOT from now on.

[Sooner5030]

I am not sure most of these people have the disposable income to pay an additional tax per uncovered person in their household. You can net it against their EIC (yeah for me less free money distributed through our tax system) but most of them have become conditioned to receive that level of EIC. This law was one of the worst ways we could have remedied the problems.

[jkjsooner]

Don't have any answers, but give you credit for coining "healthcare tax" here. Sure we'll be hearing the term A LOT from now on.

If you go back and look at past posts of mine you will see that I've called it that for a long time. I always thought the fact that the mandate is done via the tax code is the most compelling argument for its constitutionality.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I think that folks that qualify for Medicaid probably won't have to pay the tax since they are essentially covered. I think it's mostly a tax on the middle class (mostly lower mc) and small businesses.

As far as liberal groups campaigning against Obama, I don't see that happening.

[landrun]

If you go back and look at past posts of mine you will see that I've called it that for a long time. I always thought the fact that the mandate is done via the tax code is the most compelling argument for its constitutionality.

jk, this brings me back to my question here: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?168909-Obamacare-how-does-this-cover-the-uninsured

It seems you are saying that everyone has to either buy insurance or pay this healthcare tax. Is that how you understand it to be?

I'm asking because I have some leftist friends who swear that the poor do not have to pay this fee.
If they don't have to pay, do they still get preventive care without paying? Or do they just use the ER as they do now.
What does that really change?
If they do have to pay (which is what seems to be implied in this thread) how on earth does that help the poor???
Especially if they can't buy actual insurance, then it seems they're just paying a penalty tax, which they can't afford, and still get no real care.
Does the 'government plan' even exist? Or is that just medicare which is just available to more people now??

Just looking for an answer to this... :)

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Landrun, I don't know for sure but I would think that those that qualify for Medicaid wouldn't have to pay the tax.

If that's the case the greatest burden is going to be on those folks that are just above the level to qualify for Medicaid.

[jkjsooner]

As far as liberal groups campaigning against Obama, I don't see that happening.

I'm talking about a conservative group masquerading as a liberal group...

[jkjsooner]

jk, this brings me back to my question here: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?168909-Obamacare-how-does-this-cover-the-uninsured

It seems you are saying that everyone has to either buy insurance or pay this healthcare tax. Is that how you understand it to be?

I'm asking because I have some leftist friends who swear that the poor do not have to pay this fee.

I think that that is true. I'm talking less about those in poverty than those slightly above the poverty level.

But, anyway, there's no reason a PAC couldn't try to imply that those in poverty would have to pay a tax. You could imply this without technically being false as long as you didn't specify the details and we all know (at least most who can think for themselves) that political ads are often misleading...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm talking about a conservative group masquerading as a liberal group...

Yeah I see that now that I re-read it. I don't think this is an issue in the Presidential race past this week. Obamacare is an issue for the base. The middle is going to by driven by the economy.

[Midtowner]

Would politicians happily talk out both sides of their mouth? Yep.

[pphilfran]

I am not sure most of these people have the disposable income to pay an additional tax per uncovered person in their household. You can net it against their EIC (yeah for me less free money distributed through our tax system) but most of them have become conditioned to receive that level of EIC. This law was one of the worst ways we could have remedied the problems.

I have wondered the same...discretionary income is going to take a hit...I would imagine at least 50 billion a year...

[pphilfran]

Would politicians happily talk out both sides of their mouth? Yep.

Surely you jest...

[badger]

Regressive taxes suck, if for no other reason than it usually results in everyone, even us minions, paying them :P

At least when my parents used to gripe about Wisconsin property taxes, I knew I wasn't paying that out of my allowance money. But every time I was buying junk food with my mere pittance, I was paying stupid sales tax.

And then I move down here and the sales tax is even higher! (It was about 5.5 percent where I lived in rural Wisky and about 8 percent here in Tulsa).

This is going to impact the economy in the same way that higher gas prices have. People are still going to fuel up and now are going to health insurance up because they have to, but they are going to have less disposable income for things like clothes, eating out, and crap from Best Buy. I would also venture a guess that it would cause people to go even further away from local business and finding the same stuff cheaper online, sans... wait for it... HIGH SALES TAXES!!!

So, I'm worried. But, Republicans blew things back in 2006/2008, so they can look at those election losses as the reason why Democrats had the power to pass such sweeping, unpopular legislation. By "unpopular," I mean that people in general are not fans, not that people don't want health reform, because many know that the system is broken.

Food for thought: Now that voters by and large are furious with Democrats, we may be looking at about majority changing election similar to what Democrats experienced in 06/08. 2010 was the first wave, and 2012 could be the next. What sweeping, unpopular legislation would Republicans try to pass if they had unchecked majorities?

You already know the answer, because we've seen it at the state-level: Public sector unions are gonna have tons less power.

[pphilfran]

I used to read Badger's posts but since I learned she was a far right winger with little legislative knowledge I just ignore her rants...

[badger]

I used to read Badger's posts but since I learned she was a far right winger with little legislative knowledge I just ignore her rants...

I know, right? Right, hehe. I said "right." :P

[badger]

The tax is a progressive tax on those who are rich in health. Itis completely in line with the libtard way of thinking.

Life really isn't fair, isn't it? Should I complain to God in prayer, or will someone else listen as I protest the unfairness of life :(