UPHELD AS A TAX HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[ictsooner7]

CONSTITUTIONAL!!!!

[okie52]

CONSTITUTIONAL!!!!

But no teeth in the law Icky....no penalty for not paying the penalty.

[ictsooner7]

But no teeth in the law Icky....no penalty for not paying the penalty.


UPHELD..........................CONSTITUTIONAL!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA!

LMAO AT YOU!!

[marfacowboy]

Game, blouses.

[Midtowner]

But no teeth in the law Icky....no penalty for not paying the penalty.

No penalty for not paying your taxes?

Not sure you've thought this one through....

[cleller]

The reactions of supporters are remarkable, anyway. Probably lots of middle fingers getting a workout.

[REDREX]

Anyone that thinks this country can afford this law is a Fool

[Midtowner]

Anyone that thinks this country can afford this law is a Fool

Agree with that. This puts us on the path to single-payer or just totally socialized medicine unless the insurance companies really start to reign in costs.

[ictsooner7]

Anyone that thinks this country can afford this law is a Fool

should have been public option, buy into medicare!

[ictsooner7]

Agree with that. This puts us on the path to single-payer or just totally socialized medicine unless the insurance companies really start to reign in costs.

if canadian medicine is good enough for Sarah Palin, then it should be good enough for all Americans!!

[cleller]

Anyone that thinks this country can afford this law is a Fool

You'll have to buy some cows and become a farmer, or start a business so you can get some tax relief.

[olevetonahill]

UPHELD..........................CONSTITUTIONAL!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA!

LMAO AT YOU!!

Do you get yer rocks off by being an *******?

[ictsooner7]

Do you get yer rocks off by being an *******?

Do you get your rocks off by being stupid?

YES

IDIOT!!

WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK..................HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[landrun]

So Obama has ONCE AGAIN, broke his oath to not increase taxes on the middle class and the poor then huh.

[REDREX]

Agree with that. This puts us on the path to single-payer or just totally socialized medicine unless the insurance companies really start to reign in costs.---No requirement to buy insurance and no fine if you do not----The insurance companies are stuck with more coverage requirements and they will not be getting all those new customers---This just makes it a bigger mess

[olevetonahill]

Do you get your rocks off by being stupid?

YES

IDIOT!!

WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK..................HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You Make me want to just hug and squeeze you

[REDREX]

You Make me want to just hug and squeeze you---Do yourself a favor and don't try and argue with a fool

[landrun]

---No requirement to buy insurance and no fine if you do not----The insurance companies are stuck with more coverage requirements and they will not be getting all those new customers---This just makes it a bigger mess

I'm not sure what you mean by this?? I haven't seen anything that interprets this as meaning you don't have to pay the 'penalty tax'.

[marfacowboy]

Actually a strange ruling, as it upholds the mandate as a tax but not under the Commerce Clause.

[Midtowner]

---No requirement to buy insurance and no fine if you do not----The insurance companies are stuck with more coverage requirements and they will not be getting all those new customers---This just makes it a bigger mess

The way I've read the Scotusblog live blog, that's not quite correct.

I explained it in another thread... Congress cannot pass a measure saying that you will go to jail for not eating broccoli pursuant to their commerce clause authority, there can be no command that you take some affirmative act to engage in interstate commerce. Congress can, however, pass a measure which says that if you don't eat broccoli, you will have to pay a $1,000 broccoli tax. The effect of which will be if you don't pay it, going to the pokey for tax evasion.

So in essence, Congress can tell you to eat broccoli, but you can opt out by just paying the tax.

[Midtowner]

So Obama has ONCE AGAIN, broke his oath to not increase taxes on the middle class and the poor then huh.

That'll be the spin for sure.

[olevetonahill]

---Do yourself a favor and don't try and argue with a fool
Hell i aint arguin with him. Hes like that favorite teddy bear thing ya had as a kid. Ya know all ragged and tore an slobbered on. Ya couldnt stand the stinkin thing But some how it was yer favorite.

[ictsooner7]

---Do yourself a favor and don't try and argue with a fool

FOOL!! I was right and you are wrong! CONSTITUTIONAL!!

This is what you get for listening to a junior college dropout and not to the Harvard educated lawyer and professor of constitutional law.

[olevetonahill]

That'll be the spin for sure.

How is the truth a "Spin"
It is a new tax, right?

[olevetonahill]

FOOL!! I was right and you are wrong! CONSTITUTIONAL!!

This is what you get for listening to a junior college dropout and not to the Harvard educated lawyer and professor of constitutional law.
You sound as happy about this as a Puppy that just found its peter.

[Midtowner]

How is the truth a "Spin"
It is a new tax, right?

Not if you get healthcare and not if your state opts into the Medicare expansion and you are within 133% of the poverty level.

[badger]

I choose to remain civil here...

Seeing how other countries struggle with their national healthcare programs, I am worried how this country will handle it's own, especially since it's new.

I am worried about how poor people and middle class families with more children will be able to afford this.

I am worried that like government loans for college education, the providers (hospitals and doctors as opposed to colleges) will use this opportunity to jack up costs on something that is already considered quite expensive.

Congratulations to President Obama and the Democratic majority before 2010, however. Without this being upheld, they really wouldn't have accomplished much during the president's first two years in office.

Could this still get overturned by the next Congress? I don't think Democrats can count on having a supermajority after this upcoming election. This is going to make some voters even more angry than they were in the 2010 election.

As for Chief Justice Roberts, I guess he did not want his legacy to be the one who led the SCOTUS as they struck down universal healthcare.

[dwarthog]

I'm not sure what you mean by this?? I haven't seen anything that interprets this as meaning you don't have to pay the 'penalty tax'.

I believe the collection mechanism of this "penalty" was to extract it from any "refund" you may get on your taxes at the end of the year. Otherwise, they didn't include a "collection" mechanism for the case where you don't get a refund.

Given this ruling, I would expect that to change.

[olevetonahill]

I choose to remain civil here...

Seeing how other countries struggle with their national healthcare programs, I am worried how this country will handle it's own, especially since it's new.

I am worried about how poor people and middle class families with more children will be able to afford this.

I am worried that like government loans for college education, the providers (hospitals and doctors as opposed to colleges) will use this opportunity to jack up costs on something that is already considered quite expensive.

Congratulations to President Obama and the Democratic majority before 2010, however. Without this being upheld, they really wouldn't have accomplished much during the president's first two years in office.

Could this still get overturned by the next Congress? I don't think Democrats can count on having a supermajority after this upcoming election. This is going to make some voters even more angry than they were in the 2010 election.

As for Chief Justice Roberts, I guess he did not want his legacy to be the one who led the SCOTUS as they struck down universal healthcare.

Baj Congress can pass a law to overturn it, But If Obammy is still Prz. he will just veto it. It will take a new Prez. to get rid of it.

[okie52]

No penalty for not paying your taxes?

Not sure you've thought this one through....

I was just repeating what NBC was saying. Also the Medicaid regarding the states will have some problems.

[ictsooner7]

Baj Congress can pass a law to overturn it, But If Obammy is still Prz. he will just veto it. It will take a new Prez. to get rid of it.

and sixty votes in the senate...............

[badger]

Baj Congress can pass a law to overturn it, But If Obammy is still Prz. he will just veto it. It will take a new Prez. to get rid of it.

What type of majority would it take in Congress to overrule a presidential veto?

[okie52]

UPHELD..........................CONSTITUTIONAL!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA!

LMAO AT YOU!!

LOL....go with it Icky...you are one cool guy.

[ictsooner7]

I choose to remain civil here...

Seeing how other countries struggle with their national healthcare programs, I am worried how this country will handle it's own, especially since it's new.

I am worried about how poor people and middle class families with more children will be able to afford this.

I am worried that like government loans for college education, the providers (hospitals and doctors as opposed to colleges) will use this opportunity to jack up costs on something that is already considered quite expensive.

Congratulations to President Obama and the Democratic majority before 2010, however. Without this being upheld, they really wouldn't have accomplished much during the president's first two years in office.

Could this still get overturned by the next Congress? I don't think Democrats can count on having a supermajority after this upcoming election. This is going to make some voters even more angry than they were in the 2010 election.

As for Chief Justice Roberts, I guess he did not want his legacy to be the one who led the SCOTUS as they struck down universal healthcare.

It couldn't be that it was CONSTITUTIONAL? Why does the right always have some secondary reason other than the facts?

[okie52]

---No requirement to buy insurance and no fine if you do not----The insurance companies are stuck with more coverage requirements and they will not be getting all those new customers---This just makes it a bigger mess

Its a great law.

[REDREX]

FOOL!! I was right and you are wrong! CONSTITUTIONAL!!

This is what you get for listening to a junior college dropout and not to the Harvard educated lawyer and professor of constitutional law.--- Why did the Harvard educated lawyer not just call it a tax and not try and use the Commerece Clause ?

[ictsooner7]

What type of majority would it take in Congress to overrule a presidential veto?

You really seriously don’t know it takes 2/3 vote of the senate to override a presidential veto? Talk about not knowing our political process…………

I leaned this at school and on SchoolhouseRock!

According to some people on here, you should not be allowed to vote!

[ictsooner7]

--- Why did the Harvard educated lawyer not just call it a tax and not try and use the Commerece Clause ?

CONSTITUTIONAL!!! He was right and you are wrong!

[olevetonahill]

What type of majority would it take in Congress to overrule a presidential veto?
2/3rds in both houses

[REDREX]

CONSTITUTIONAL!!! He was right and you are wrong!--- Why did the Harvard educated Lawyer not call it a tax ?----

[olevetonahill]

You really seriously don’t know it takes 2/3 vote of the senate to override a presidential veto? Talk about not knowing our political process…………

I leaned this at school and on SchoolhouseRock!

According to some people on here, you should not be allowed to vote!

Icky cut her some slack shes Blond and a new mom, Not every one is as sharp as a bowling ball like you

[okie52]

Let Icky celebrate because when he wakes up tomorrow he will still be Icky.

[olevetonahill]

Let Icky celebrate because when he wakes up tomorrow he will still be Icky.
Do things like him sleep?

[okie52]

Do things like him sleep?

I don't know...maybe hanging upside down in a cave.

[KantoSooner]

Actually a strange ruling, as it upholds the mandate as a tax but not under the Commerce Clause.

You are correct. I have not read the decision, but I have suspicions that Roberts is making the point that the days of the Supreme Court making law are over. I see this as him kicking the matter back to Congress and forcing them to do their damn job and make/defend laws.

He seems to be saying, "A law was passed and enacted. It's a dog's breakfast and unclear how it's goiing to work. If the people don't like it, go elect a new Congress and overturn it."

Notwithstanding the impact of this ruling, it's going to fascinating to see how the implications work themselves out. The fall election just got waaaaaaaay more interesting.

[Midtowner]

You are correct. I have not read the decision, but I have suspicions that Roberts is making the point that the days of the Supreme Court making law are over. I see this as him kicking the matter back to Congress and forcing them to do their damn job and make/defend laws.

He seems to be saying, "A law was passed and enacted. It's a dog's breakfast and unclear how it's goiing to work. If the people don't like it, go elect a new Congress and overturn it."

Notwithstanding the impact of this ruling, it's going to fascinating to see how the implications work themselves out. The fall election just got waaaaaaaay more interesting.

Headlines this morning could have been "The Four Horsemen Ride Again." Roberts' decision to not legislate from the bench really saved the prestige of the institution. Congress and the President are now going to be stuck with the implications of this bill. I agree it's a pile of crap, but it's constitutional.

I actually disagree with Roberts over the newly invented rule regarding the commerce clause. That distinction strains credulity, but in the end, due to Congress' taxing power, it's a toothless distinction.

[badger]

You really seriously don’t know it takes 2/3 vote of the senate to override a presidential veto? Talk about not knowing our political process…………

I leaned this at school and on SchoolhouseRock!

According to some people on here, you should not be allowed to vote!

Chill man, I haven't had a full night's sleep in months. I could have googled it, but Obamafest forum is faster.


It couldn't be that it was CONSTITUTIONAL? Why does the right always have some secondary reason other than the facts?
The constitution is always subject to interpretation. That's why (I assume) four justices voted it down.

Again, gonna be civil, because I know that SCOTUS' decision is by no means the final word in this discussion.

[KantoSooner]

I'm still trying to project forward what this will mean, but it could be very bad news for Dems in the fall if the ruling angers/energizes enough people and convinces them that voting incumbent Dems out is the only way to overturn the law.

and, before anybody wastes time jumping my *** on this, I'm pretty well established as being mildly biased in favor of single payer. I've lived under such systems in a variety of countries and the sky didn't fall. As a single, divorced guy with kid and family taken care of, I have less at stake personally than most. My comments should be read as commentary only on the political aspects of this game.

[OULenexaman]

I choose to remain civil here...

Seeing how other countries struggle with their national healthcare programs, I am worried how this country will handle it's own, especially since it's new.

I am worried about how poor people and middle class families with more children will be able to afford this.

I am worried that like government loans for college education, the providers (hospitals and doctors as opposed to colleges) will use this opportunity to jack up costs on something that is already considered quite expensive.

Congratulations to President Obama and the Democratic majority before 2010, however. Without this being upheld, they really wouldn't have accomplished much during the president's first two years in office.

Could this still get overturned by the next Congress? I don't think Democrats can count on having a supermajority after this upcoming election. This is going to make some voters even more angry than they were in the 2010 election.

As for Chief Justice Roberts, I guess he did not want his legacy to be the one who led the SCOTUS as they struck down universal healthcare. I agree except on one point.....this Obama admin really hasn't accomplished a damn thing yet.

[achiro]

So here are a couple of questions:
1. If the employer decides to pay the $2000 fine instead of paying for insurance for the employees, are the employees then responsible for getting their own insurance or face these tax fines?
2. Where are the states suppose to get the money to pay for Medicaid for the folks without raising taxes and decreasing what Medicaid covers?

[jkjsooner]

But no teeth in the law Icky....no penalty for not paying the penalty.

Doesn't matter. There wasn't going to be a penalty for not paying the penalty for not paying the penalty anyway...

[jkjsooner]

Where are the states suppose to get the money to pay for Medicaid for the folks without raising taxes and decreasing what Medicaid covers?

Every wonder why it was always old farts protesting the healthcare act? There you go. They didn't care about government powers or whatever. They were protecting their turf.

Well, except for the idiots who had to "get your government hands off my medicare" signs... They were just morons.

[jkjsooner]

I'm still trying to project forward what this will mean, but it could be very bad news for Dems in the fall if the ruling angers/energizes enough people and convinces them that voting incumbent Dems out is the only way to overturn the law.

and, before anybody wastes time jumping my *** on this, I'm pretty well established as being mildly biased in favor of single payer. I've lived under such systems in a variety of countries and the sky didn't fall. As a single, divorced guy with kid and family taken care of, I have less at stake personally than most. My comments should be read as commentary only on the political aspects of this game.

I'm not jumping on you but I am tired of hearing that a ruling against Obama was going to ruin him and a ruling for him is bad news for him. I guarantee you plenty who made that second argument will now join your line of reasoning.

Those people need to simplify their argument and say that Obamacare is going to ruin Obama and leave the SCOTUS out of it because they clearly were going to come to the same conclusion no matter what SCOTUS did.

[okie52]

Doesn't matter. There wasn't going to be a penalty for not paying the penalty for not paying the penalty anyway...

I would think that would matter. How is it going to be funded?

[jkjsooner]

--- Why did the Harvard educated lawyer not just call it a tax and not try and use the Commerece Clause ?

That was one of their arguments. For political purposes Obama didn't want to come out and say this but his team sure as heck argued it.

[jkjsooner]

I would think that would matter. How is it going to be funded?

Actually, that was just a joke. What was meant by "no penalty for not paying the penalty"?

Is there some way a person can avoid paying the penalty when filling out their taxes?

[cleller]

I would think that would matter. How is it going to be funded?

In the end, those with jobs or assets will pay for everyone. Those without jobs/assets will get it free, like always.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

UPHELD..........................CONSTITUTIONAL!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA!

LMAO AT YOU!!

So you own insurance company stock right?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Seeing how other countries struggle with their national healthcare programs, I am worried how this country will handle it's own, especially since it's new.


ObamaCare is not a national health care system. It's an extension of the same crappy system we already have. It was written by the insurance companies and big Pharma. That's all you need to know.

[yermom]

So here are a couple of questions:
1. If the employer decides to pay the $2000 fine instead of paying for insurance for the employees, are the employees then responsible for getting their own insurance or face these tax fines?
2. Where are the states suppose to get the money to pay for Medicaid for the folks without raising taxes and decreasing what Medicaid covers?

for #1, i never understood why that fine was so low

gotta be cheaper than paying for insurance

i'm not sure why it has to be tied to an employer

[captain_surly]

and sixty votes in the senate...............

60/100 = 60% ≠ 2/3rds = scoolhouse rock fail = dumas

[yermom]

well, tied to an employer is a separate thing

i don't get why i'm stuck with whatever insurance company has gotten into bed with my current employer

[okie52]

Actually, that was just a joke. What was meant by "no penalty for not paying the penalty"?

Is there some way a person can avoid paying the penalty when filling out their taxes?

I assume it would be withheld from any refund...but if there is no refund then what?

[olevetonahill]

I assume it would be withheld from any refund...but if there is no refund then what?
Hell dont every one get a refund even if they never hit a lick?

[sappstuf]

60/100 = 60% ≠ 2/3rds = scoolhouse rock fail = dumas

lol

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hgl/assets/3640/hooray_blog.jpg

[badger]

60/100 = 60% ≠ 2/3rds = scoolhouse rock fail = dumas

Thanks surly. I thought that didn't sound right, but there are so many odd majority rules from state to state that it's hard to keep everything straight. :D

[SCOUT]

well, tied to an employer is a separate thing

i don't get why i'm stuck with whatever insurance company has gotten into bed with my current employer
You're not. You can choose to pay for 100% of your health insurance and get it somewhere else.

[olevetonahill]

well, tied to an employer is a separate thing

i don't get why i'm stuck with whatever insurance company has gotten into bed with my current employer
Isnt it that way now?You take what yer employer offers or Buy some yerself?

[jkjsooner]

I assume it would be withheld from any refund...but if there is no refund then what?

Is there some way that this is treated differently than other tax obligations? Generally they have authority to make you pay your obligations.

Let's say you owe $50 plus another $100 for the individual mandate. Are you saying that if you did not pay anything they would have authority to come after you but if you paid $50 they would not have the authority to come after you for the extra $100? Even in that case, could the government carry that obligation over to the next year?

If this is correct, and now that you mention it I do remember something along these lines, I guess there is a loophole as long as you make sure you always pay slightly less than you will owe. But if the obligation could carry forward you would have to make sure that this is the case for every year going forward.

[badger]

You're not. You can choose to pay for 100% of your health insurance and get it somewhere else.

Or you be on your Sooner spouse's insurance like me :)

[jkjsooner]

Isnt it that way now?You take what yer employer offers or Buy some yerself?

Yeah, but of course in practical terms it isn't feasible. For starters, most people wouldn't get reimbursed by their employers for what the employer contributes to the plan. Second, the employer is usually able to negotiate much better prices than you could get.

For the larger companies many of them actually pay the health costs rather than a premium. The insurance companies are only administrative.

[okie52]

Is there some way that this is treated differently than other tax obligations? Generally they have authority to make you pay your obligations.

Let's say you owe $50 plus another $100 for the individual mandate. Are you saying that if you did not pay anything they would have authority to come after you but if you paid $50 they would not have the authority to come after you for the extra $100? Even in that case, could the government carry that obligation over to the next year?

If this is correct, and now that you mention it I do remember something along these lines, I guess there is a loophole as long as you make sure you always pay slightly less than you will owe. But if the obligation could carry forward you would have to make sure that this is the case for every year going forward.

I was only going by what I heard on TV but it didn't sound like there was a carry forward but I could be wrong.

[SCOUT]

Ask your employer to cut you a check for the cost of your health insurance minus taxes and take you off his plan.
My wife's employer does that.

[ictsooner7]

60/100 = 60% ≠ 2/3rds = scoolhouse rock fail = dumas


uuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmm no you dumb@ss, I was talking about repealing it not overriding a veto. Veto is 2/3 in both houses.

cpatain_surly = dumb@ss

god its great to be right!

[ictsooner7]

We do that for our group.

then do you go out on the open market and buy your own plan?

[ictsooner7]

Icky cut her some slack shes Blond and a new mom, Not every one is as sharp as a bowling ball like you

My wife is blond and has four kids and she knows its 2/3rds in both houses.

Being blond and having kids does not make you stupid.

[ictsooner7]

Chill man, I haven't had a full night's sleep in months. I could have googled it, but Obamafest forum is faster.


The constitution is always subject to interpretation. That's why (I assume) four justices voted it down.

Again, gonna be civil, because I know that SCOTUS' decision is by no means the final word in this discussion.

lack of sleep is no excuse for ignorance, you should not be allowed to vote.......not knowing our political process and all………

execpt for that second amendment.........

[badger]

lack of sleep is no excuse for ignorance, you should not be allowed to vote.......not knowing our political process and all………

execpt for that second amendment.........

I'm afraid of guns! I've never fired one in my life and when I see one I usually go in the opposite direction!

Guns is the second amendment, right? There's so many amendments I sometimes lose track of those too :P

[KantoSooner]

The law of of unintended consequences is a harsh thing sometimes. I have been talking to a sometimes business contact with a small plant in Malaysia that does tool and die making. About 50 employees. He had about decided to relocate the business back to Fort Worth early next year.
He now intends to re-up his building lease in Penang tomorrow and keep the business over there for another two years and see how things go here. Couldn't face the unpredictable health insurance bills.

[soonerhubs]

This thread is an interesting look into the mind of a 2 year old. Is ichabod the dnc twitter guy?

:)

[badger]

This thread is an interesting look into the mind of a 2 year old. Is ichabod the dnc twitter guy?

:)

Well then, thanks to this SCOTUS ruling, his mind will be covered under his parents for the next 24 years!*













* Yes, I am through being civil.

[olevetonahill]

My wife is blond and has four kids and she knows its 2/3rds in both houses.

Being blond and having kids does not make you stupid.
Some thing does, She married you.

[jkjsooner]

lack of sleep is no excuse for ignorance, you should not be allowed to vote.......not knowing our political process and all………

execpt for that second amendment.........

Dude, she asked a question. It's not like she came into as a know-it-all. I respect people who will ask such questions. Also, the way the question was worded implied that Badger knew that it required more than a simple majority.

Now, if wanted to say that Sic'em doesn't think that Badger should be able to vote then that's a different matter but I'd think even Sic'em respects the fact that we don't all remember every little detail from US government.

[MamaMia]

You know what they say... "misery loves company." I'm thinking this Obmacare lover is some socialized medicine victim, living in England, with a mouth full of plaque and a real bad toothache.

[ictsooner7]

Dude, she asked a question. It's not like she came into as a know-it-all. I respect people who will ask such questions. Also, the way the question was worded implied that Badger knew that it required more than a simple majority.

Now, if wanted to say that Sic'em doesn't think that Badger should be able to vote then that's a different matter but I'd think even Sic'em respects the fact that we don't all remember every little detail from US government.


Every little detail from the US government? A veto override is a little detail? Ever hear the phrase "veto proof majority"? Now when a rightwingnut doesn't know what every high school kid in the country was taught - civics class - you do not know enough about the political process to be allowed to vote. If you don't understand how many votes it takes to override a veto is not a small detail, you should not be allowed to vote. The rightwingnut standard not mine.

[olevetonahill]

Every little detail from the US government? A veto override is a little detail? Ever hear the phrase "veto proof majority"? Now when a rightwingnut doesn't know what every high school kid in the country was taught - civics class - you do not know enough about the political process to be allowed to vote. If you don't understand how many votes it takes to override a veto is not a small detail, you should not be allowed to vote. The rightwingnut standard not mine.

You still runnin yer mouth? Dayum boy ya acting like some Giddy school girl over all this .

[SCOUT]

Did ict just call Badger a "rightwingnut?" Wow. There are lots of political types on this site, but Badger is probably the most sane person here.

[olevetonahill]

Did ict just call Badger a "rightwingnut?" Wow. There are lots of political types on this site, but Badger is probably the most sane person here.

Dont think theres a Poster that Icky hasnt tried to insult today
He makes me think of a cross between CK and Leroid

[soonerhubs]

Ichy, I'm hoping those lithium tablets work wonders, but I think there's never much hope after the lobotomy. Best wishes!

[badger]

While I appreciate you all coming to my defense, it's all good. Right wing nuts aren't all bad and if I'm one, then I'm among company in this great state :)

In fact, the nuts among us usually make us appreciate the more moderate ones. So, I hope I have fostered an appreciation for the truly "more sane" among SF.com with my nuttiness :P

[KantoSooner]

Mama, Update your notions of English healthcare. The whole bad teeth thing is about 40 years out of date. Today, you'd walk in, get your teeth cleaned, have your cavity filled, pay with pocket change and head on your way.
Whether we want their system....and the taxes to pay for it...or not is a legitimate question; questioning whether it works or is broadly popular is arguing against facts.

[Sooner98]

What this thread needed was more exclamation points and caps-locked sentences.

[badger]

What this thread needed was more exclamation points and caps-locked sentences.

The first Internet troll invented the CAPS LOCK key, even before Al Gore invented the Internet.

[captain_surly]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-obamacare-means-for-your-taxes.html
uuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmm no you dumb@ss, I was talking about repealing it not overriding a veto.

No you weren't. And if you really think every Democrat in the senate will fillabuster to keep a repeal vote off the floor you're wrong about that too. This bill will be repealed along with the huge tax increases that are supposed to pay for it. So continue your gloating while you can you kooky commie.

[ictsooner7]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-obamacare-means-for-your-taxes.html

No you weren't. And if you really think every Democrat in the senate will fillabuster to keep a repeal vote off the floor you're wrong about that too. This bill will be repealed along with the huge tax increases that are supposed to pay for it. So continue your gloating while you can you kooky commie.

Yes I was. 60 votes to repeal it.

[LiveLaughLove]

Not one republican voted for this monstrosity. One extra supreme court justice caused it to be law. It was the largest tax increase on the middle class (you know, the ones Obama swore he would NEVER raise taxes on) in the history of mankind.

It makes G HW Bush's "read my lips, no new taxes" pledge look like pre-school stuff. Roberts just gave the WH to Romney.

I hope Obama has fun on the golf and dinner circuit.

[LiveLaughLove]

Oh and ict's spasms of ecstasy are a marvel to behold. :)

The left seems to be on a tourette's binge over this thing. True class.

[BigTip]

Mama, Update your notions of English healthcare. The whole bad teeth thing is about 40 years out of date. Today, you'd walk in, get your teeth cleaned, have your cavity filled, pay with pocket change and head on your way.
Whether we want their system....and the taxes to pay for it...or not is a legitimate question; questioning whether it works or is broadly popular is arguing against facts.

That is total crap. I have two English friends and they are NOT supporters of universal health care.

[Chuck Bao]

I have numerous British friends and I've never heard one of them complain about their health care system. In fact, some of them fly back home for doctors appointments and a year supply of medicine. They do grudgingly admit that the US is far, far ahead in advancing medical research. On the other hand, they make the point that the general practitioners that they and we see are not the ones actually doing the research, although all those doctors are supposed to stay up to date.

I think this topic is interesting. US consumers are actually subsidizing the vast bulk of medical research in the world by paying higher medical bills, pill bills, insurance premiums than anywhere else. Do you think that is fair and justified, especially as we continue to lose jobs to cheaper cost countries overseas?

[MamaMia]

Mama, Update your notions of English healthcare. The whole bad teeth thing is about 40 years out of date. Today, you'd walk in, get your teeth cleaned, have your cavity filled, pay with pocket change and head on your way.
Whether we want their system....and the taxes to pay for it...or not is a legitimate question; questioning whether it works or is broadly popular is arguing against facts.Wrong. There has been no NHS dental provision in that country. Their health care plan has very minimal dental allowances, especially in the area of juvenile orthodontics. The govt. will pay for extractions but not root canals unless its one of the 4 front teeth and no cosmetic dentistry is allowed at all. I know a dentist who moved to the states because he could barely live off what he was being paid. Unless you are weathy, you can forget about good dental care.

My sister in law is from England and totally blames all the work she has had to have done since she married my brother on the lack of dental care provided by the country she was born and raised in.

[soonercruiser]

Mama, Update your notions of English healthcare. The whole bad teeth thing is about 40 years out of date. Today, you'd walk in, get your teeth cleaned, have your cavity filled, pay with pocket change and head on your way.
Whether we want their system....and the taxes to pay for it...or not is a legitimate question; questioning whether it works or is broadly popular is arguing against facts.

Saying generally glowing things about medical care in GB seems to conflict with some first hand testimony/interviews that I have seen lately.

[Jerk]

To the OP:

I think you fail to realize that Roberts is playing chess and you guys are playing checkers.

For one thing, now only takes a simply majority in the senate to repeal this damned thing since it is a tax, which your messiah repeatedly claimed was not a tax.

But what really ought to make your head explode (if you're able to figure this out) is that the powers of Congress under the Commerce Clause were greatly put in check by this ruling, and you sacrifced that baby to keep this one stupid program afloat that can now easily be overturned legislatively.

Moreover, the power of the federal government to coerce states into expanded medicaid was slapped down.

From Slate:
.This is a substantial rollback of Congress' regulatory powers, and the chief justice knows it. It is what Roberts has been pursuing ever since he signed up with the Federalist Society. In 2005, Sen. Barack Obama spoke in opposition to Roberts' nomination, saying he did not trust his political philosophy on tough questions such as "whether the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to speak on those issues of broad national concern that may be only tangentially related to what is easily defined as interstate commerce." Today, Roberts did what Obama predicted he would do.

Chew on that for awhile.

[Jerk]

Here toy go, from Slate itself, which is just right of Mao Tse Tung
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/scocca/2012/06/roberts_health_care_opinion_commerce_clause_the_re al_reason_the_chief_justice_upheld_obamacare_.sing le.html

[KantoSooner]

That is total crap. I have two English friends and they are NOT supporters of universal health care.

And I've got three who are happy campers. Overall, the NHS is the most popular section of the British government accordiing to a poll cited by CNN earlier this spring.

[soonercruiser]

To the OP:

I think you fail to realize that Roberts is playing chess and you guys are playing checkers.

For one thing, now only takes a simply majority in the senate to repeal this damned thing since it is a tax, which your messiah repeatedly claimed was not a tax.

But what really ought to make your head explode (if you're able to figure this out) is that the powers of Congress under the Commerce Clause were greatly put in check by this ruling, and you sacrifced that baby to keep this one stupid program afloat that can now easily be overturned legislatively.

Moreover, the power of the federal government to coerce states into expanded medicaid was slapped down.

From Slate:
.This is a substantial rollback of Congress' regulatory powers, and the chief justice knows it. It is what Roberts has been pursuing ever since he signed up with the Federalist Society. In 2005, Sen. Barack Obama spoke in opposition to Roberts' nomination, saying he did not trust his political philosophy on tough questions such as "whether the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to speak on those issues of broad national concern that may be only tangentially related to what is easily defined as interstate commerce." Today, Roberts did what Obama predicted he would do.

Chew on that for awhile.

And this quote is from a Democratic strategist!
I saw it....it was a very good line!

[cleller]

In regard to Britain's health care system I feel this is a pretty fair article. Since its by the NY Times, no one should be able to jump to some conclusion it is anti-Obama. Basically it says for day to day health care it is very good. When things get serious, you cannot rely on it. You've got to read at least to the part where the author talks about trying to make an appointment for a "sophisticated blood test". Very telling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/weekinreview/16lyall.html

It fits with the few people I've known who lived in Britain. All said about the same thing. All believed that if you had a serious, protracted condition, you must go private.

[soonercruiser]

It's simple math!
("Lowest common denominator")

[Curly Bill]

And I've got three who are happy campers. Overall, the NHS is the most popular section of the British government accordiing to a poll cited by CNN earlier this spring.

Backhanded compliment?

[badger]

I have numerous British friends and I've never heard one of them complain about their health care system. In fact, some of them fly back home for doctors appointments and a year supply of medicine. They do grudgingly admit that the US is far, far ahead in advancing medical research. On the other hand, they make the point that the general practitioners that they and we see are not the ones actually doing the research, although all those doctors are supposed to stay up to date.

I think this topic is interesting. US consumers are actually subsidizing the vast bulk of medical research in the world by paying higher medical bills, pill bills, insurance premiums than anywhere else. Do you think that is fair and justified, especially as we continue to lose jobs to cheaper cost countries overseas?

I was amazed at how the British sales taxes were, probably to pay for health programs and other stuff that has their government in money trouble. If I recall correctly, the VAT ("value added tax") was 20 percent. 20 percent ! Can you imagine having a 20 percent tax added to goods and services here?!

And on top of that, the exchange rate between U.S. Dollars and British pounds is currently crappy :mad:

[KantoSooner]

Yes, Curly, something of a backhanded complement, I'm sure. Still, if the doctors were boarding leaky boats to leave and the populace was roaming the streets with pitchforks and torches, we'd probably hear about it. Instead, by and large, the Brits seem pretty happy with their system. To make it clear: that would indicate that altering our system is not guaranteed to cause mass chaos a slow painful death for our entire population.

Badger, the pound is way up on the dollar because we spend more than we earn as a country. Britain is ahead of us in the restructuring game and the markets recognize that.

[soonercruiser]

And I've got three who are happy campers. Overall, the NHS is the most popular section of the British government accordiing to a poll cited by CNN earlier this spring.

Boy! That sure isn't saying much, is it?

[Jerk]

Im exempt from all this **** anyway; Obamacare and Social Security. I really have no viable reason to give a **** anymore. It's your problem, not mine.

[cleller]

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/114476_600.jpg

[yermom]

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/114476_600.jpg

classic.

i'm sure there will be lots of squirming on this during the debates