First Ever Gay Pride Reception at White House - very respectful???? NOT!

[soonercruiser]

Last Friday they had the first-ever gay pride reception at the White House. A bunch of gay activists were there, obviously, a gay pride reception. A group from Philadelphia showed up, made a beeline for the portrait of Ronald Reagan and flipped him off.

'Cause....back in the day gay rights leaders blamed Reagan for creating AIDS!
Duh!

Just like condoms hung on the WH Christmas Tree in the Clinton WH, you can't expect the far LW to have respect for anything except their own "feelings".

For some pictures....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gay-activists-visiting-white-house-take-photos-of-themselves-flipping-off-reagan-portrait/

[sappstuf]

Classy people.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Gay-activists-WH-visit1-620x273.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Reagan-WH-Zoe-Strauss-blogspot.jpg

[LiveLaughLove]

Classy people.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Gay-activists-WH-visit1-620x273.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Reagan-WH-Zoe-Strauss-blogspot.jpg

Seems about right. They are all beneath Reagan and Bush.

[Mazeppa]

respect for the office
http://i49.tinypic.com/nwfojl.jpg

[LiveLaughLove]

respect for the office
http://i49.tinypic.com/nwfojl.jpg

I will say at least he wears a coat and tie. Clinton would go in there in shorts and a t shirt. Of course, respect and Clinton have never been synonymous.

[sappstuf]

I will say at least he wears a coat and tie. Clinton would go in there in shorts and a t shirt. Of course, respect and Clinton have never been synonymous.

And many times he didn't have the shorts on. Or at least they were pulled down...

[diverdog]

Classy people.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Gay-activists-WH-visit1-620x273.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Reagan-WH-Zoe-Strauss-blogspot.jpg

I gotta agree. I am for Gay rights and marriage but this is very offensive and really hurts their cause. Did they not think this would get out to the press in some form?

This is a good read:

http://igfculturewatch.com/2004/06/10/reagan-and-gays-a-reassessment/

[diverdog]

respect for the office
http://i49.tinypic.com/nwfojl.jpg

oops


http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/desk2.jpg

http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/desk3.jpg

I bet if I looked hard enough I could find a picture of every single president putting their feet on the desk. This is more false outrage by the righties.

[TitoMorelli]

oops


http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/desk2.jpg

http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/desk3.jpg

I bet if I looked hard enough I could find a picture of every single president putting their feet on the desk. This is more false outrage by the righties.

So start looking. I'm especially eager to see the photo of George Washington caught doing so.

[TitoMorelli]

Seems about right. They are all beneath Reagan and Bush.

If you look closely, GWB got a thumbs-up. Under his administration far more support reportedly was given to battling AIDS globally than in previous administrations.


As for the latest idiots to whom Obama pandered in the WH, it's just typical overall of the left's incredible immaturity. The photos were obviously face-booked or tweeted so that friends could see them and post online. These people are actually proud of the way in which they make total asses of themselves.

The left can preach all day long about civil rights, but they have much to learn about how to behave civilly. They can spew class warfare rhetoric until they're blue in the face, but they've forgotten how to act with class.

[diverdog]

So start looking. I'm especially eager to see the photo of George Washington caught doing so.

You do know they use to spit tobacco on the floor back then?

[pphilfran]

The family members are not satisfied....at the least there should be enough info given to them to give them peace of mind...

[pphilfran]

You do know they use to spit tobacco on the floor back then?

They weren't spitting tobacco....they were staining the wood floors...

[cleller]

Classy people.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Gay-activists-WH-visit1-620x273.jpg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Reagan-WH-Zoe-Strauss-blogspot.jpg

Good examples of people that only care about, or think about, themselves. They don't have any conception of what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior, and don't care.

What's even more disgusting is that these people must have been hand-picked representatives selected for this White House visit.

Evidently the ringleader of this bunch, Matthew Hart, doesn't care about any normal fallout, as the organization is funded by George Soros. Too bad a letter writing campaign can't cost him his job.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/dan-gainor/soros-funded-activist-gave-reagan-portrait-finger-white-house

[badger]

All I learned about AIDS, I learned from Captain Planet:
J7EkB7oUmos

But seriously, they had SO much AIDS education in elementary/high school when I was a kid that I think I know all of the stigmas, stereotypes and misconceptions... and then because I was a kid, confuse it with the truth. Meh.

[cleller]

I mentioned that someone should give that Hart guy a good thrashing, but my wife says that's probably what he wants.

[diverdog]

If you look closely, GWB got a thumbs-up. Under his administration far more support reportedly was given to battling AIDS globally than in previous administrations.


As for the latest idiots to whom Obama pandered in the WH, it's just typical overall of the left's incredible immaturity. The photos were obviously face-booked or tweeted so that friends could see them and post online. These people are actually proud of the way in which they make total asses of themselves.

The left can preach all day long about civil rights, but they have much to learn about how to behave civilly. They can spew class warfare rhetoric until they're blue in the face, but they've forgotten how to act with class.

GWB's work on AIDS especially in Africa gets a big thumbs up. The only bad thing is it never got fully funded. But he did a lot of good. I also think he was the least prejudice of all our Presidents.

[Chuck Bao]

'Cause....back in the day gay rights leaders blamed Reagan for creating AIDS!
Duh!

Just like condoms hung on the WH Christmas Tree in the Clinton WH, you can't expect the far LW to have respect for anything except their own "feelings".

For some pictures....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gay-activists-visiting-white-house-take-photos-of-themselves-flipping-off-reagan-portrait/

You are clearly insane and I shouldn't even try to respond to this crap.

I'm very respectful of the office of the president. That doesn't mean that I can't criticize former presidents for some very obvious policy missteps. President Reagan's early non-response to the AIDS epidemic cost millions of lives. There is very good reason that President Reagan deserves the middle finger. He failed us because he couldn't bring himself to say the word "gay", although we now know it is not just a gay disease.

By stark contrast, my former boss, Anand Panyarachun was appointed prime minister after the '91 coup d'état and appointed Mechai Viravaidyam to be his minister for tourism, information and AIDS. At that time, epidemic researchers were saying that Thailand would soon surpass Africa in the number of AIDS virus infections per population. It didn't happen just because of the tremendous awareness campaign immediately launched by Mechai and supported by Prime Minister Anand. I did get the chance to tell both of them how much their early campaign saved lives.

In other words, I have no problem with gay rights leaders giving former president Ronald Reagan the middle finger.

[TitoMorelli]

In other words, I have no problem with gay rights leaders giving former president Ronald Reagan the middle finger.

Then again, Chuck, maybe you were suckered into believing Reagan was to blame for all the ills thrust upon the gay community in the 1980's--


Gay Activists Know Nothing About Reagan, History

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/22/gay-activists-know-nothing-about-reagan-history

[Chuck Bao]

Then again, Chuck, maybe you were suckered into believing Reagan was to blame for all the ills thrust upon the gay community in the 1980's--


Gay Activists Know Nothing About Reagan, History

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/22/gay-activists-know-nothing-about-reagan-history

Thanks for that cut and paste, TitoMorelli. I did live through the AIDS scare. I did lose a lot of friends. I don't guess you caught my post about how Thailand faced up to the AIDS epidemic very differently and was largely successful through a very effective awareness campaign.

I really don't think I was suckered into believing something different than what I saw and experienced.

[okie52]

Yeah, Chuck, those gays did the cause a lot of good flipping off a dead guy in the white house. You may not like him but you don't have to be stupid about it.

[cleller]

You are clearly insane and I shouldn't even try to respond to this crap.

I'm very respectful of the office of the president. That doesn't mean that I can't criticize former presidents for some very obvious policy missteps. President Reagan's early non-response to the AIDS epidemic cost millions of lives. There is very good reason that President Reagan deserves the middle finger. He failed us because he couldn't bring himself to say the word "gay", although we now know it is not just a gay disease.

By stark contrast, my former boss, Anand Panyarachun was appointed prime minister after the '91 coup d'état and appointed Mechai Viravaidyam to be his minister for tourism, information and AIDS. At that time, epidemic researchers were saying that Thailand would soon surpass Africa in the number of AIDS virus infections per population. It didn't happen just because of the tremendous awareness campaign immediately launched by Mechai and supported by Prime Minister Anand. I did get the chance to tell both of them how much their early campaign saved lives.

In other words, I have no problem with gay rights leaders giving former president Ronald Reagan the middle finger.

Well Chuck, in as friendly a manner as possible I have to pile on against you on this one. My argument is simple. The White House is a representative monument to our nation. It is iconic, and represents much more than any single issue. It is a place the people built to serve as the home for our elected leader. The home of our president. Viewing it in that light, I feel that decorum would dictate that demonstrations like this are not in order. Just about anywhere else-- fine, its a free country. This behavior inside the White House is very upsetting to me.

I could never condone this behavior for any reason. Even toward Lyndon Johnson.

[Chuck Bao]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. They didn't break the Nancy Reagan chinaware. All they did is take pictures of rude hand gestures in front of portraits of former presidents for obvious and justified reasons, in my opinion. I can't imagine why anyone would seriously claim that visits to the White House would be above political expression, even as infantile as this one was. To claim otherwise, seems, yeah, just as infantile.

Now, I've never taken the White House tour or slept in the Lincoln bedroom. There could be White House guest rules that expressly forbid flipping off paintings of former presidents and taking pictures of it. If I ever get the chance to visit the oval office, I may inadvertently reach down and adjust my package. Sorry in advance for the lack of decorum.

[soonercruiser]

You do know they use to spit tobacco on the floor back then?

Please don't educate them about history Diver.
Let them stay ignorant.....otherwise....they would spit on the pictures too!

[KABOOKIE]

Meh, let them have their fun. When it's our turn, I'll be taking a dook right on the Obammy portrait.

[Mazeppa]

Like this?

http://i50.tinypic.com/amcoev.jpg

[Mazeppa]

or this!
http://i48.tinypic.com/28gypg6.jpg

[soonercruiser]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. They didn't break the Nancy Reagan chinaware. All they did is take pictures of rude hand gestures in front of portraits of former presidents for obvious and justified reasons, in my opinion. I can't imagine why anyone would seriously claim that visits to the White House would be above political expression, even as infantile as this one was. To claim otherwise, seems, yeah, just as infantile.

Now, I've never taken the White House tour or slept in the Lincoln bedroom. There could be White House guest rules that expressly forbid flipping off paintings of former presidents and taking pictures of it. If I ever get the chance to visit the oval office, I may inadvertently reach down and adjust my package. Sorry in advance for the lack of decorum.

What you don't understand, or simply ignore Cuckie is....for the most part, the gay community has no respect for most traditional icons or institutions. Have you seen the videos of the gays and transgenders desicrating the Holy Eucharist in California Catholic Churches? Same type of stuff!

Please don't blame ANYONE ELSE.....especially Reagan for not fixing a disease or health crisis that the gay community's behavior has brought upon itself!
I do feel real sorrow for those whose have sexually transmitted disease.....BUT.....I, for one, am not willing to accept responsibility for someone else's bad behavior.

But, I will continue to help all those in need, despite their individual bad behaviors.

[olevetonahill]

What you don't understand, or simply ignore Cuckie is....for the most part, the gay community has no respect for most traditional icons or institutions. Have you seen the videos of the gays and transgenders desicrating the Holy Eucharist in California Catholic Churches? Same type of stuff!

Please don't blame ANYONE ELSE.....especially Reagan for not fixing a disease or health crisis that the gay community's behavior has brought upon itself!
I do feel real sorrow for those whose have sexually transmitted disease.....BUT.....I, for one, am not willing to accept responsibility for someone else's bad behavior.

But, I will continue to help all those in need, despite their individual bad behaviors.
Back off of Chuck
Him an I dont always agree but we be friends

[soonercruiser]

No backing off needed, Vet.
Better to clear the air, and occassionally by posting while "in heat" you see how folks really think....or fail to do so.

I have worked with, and "commanded" many gays over the years. I have always respected the individual.
BUT...in general, my point is that the gay community can see no farther than their genitals when it comes to respecting others.....because this is just what they expect of others to do for them!
:disturbed:

[olevetonahill]

No backing off needed, Vet.
Better to clear the air, and occassionally by posting while "in heat" you see how folks really think....or fail to do so.

I have worked with, and "commanded" many gays over the years. I have always respected the individual.
BUT...in general, my point is that the gay community can see no farther than their genitals when it comes to respecting others.....because this is just what they expect of others to do for them!
:disturbed:

Hate to say it bro But I never liked "Lifers" Either.

[Midtowner]

What you don't understand, or simply ignore Cuckie is....for the most part, the gay community has no respect for most traditional icons or institutions. Have you seen the videos of the gays and transgenders desicrating the Holy Eucharist in California Catholic Churches? Same type of stuff!

As to the Catholic Church, asking a gay person to respect an organization which systemically discriminates against them and undermines their rights is like asking a Catholic to respect the KKK. That said, as a somewhat lapsed Catholic, the way things are going in that Church right now, what with the current Pope and his history with regard to sex abuse cases, no one should be treating those folks with respect.


Please don't blame ANYONE ELSE.....especially Reagan for not fixing a disease or health crisis that the gay community's behavior has brought upon itself!
I do feel real sorrow for those whose have sexually transmitted disease.....BUT.....I, for one, am not willing to accept responsibility for someone else's bad behavior.

Reagan probably deserves some of the blame. Governmental policy is pretty crucial when responding to outbreaks. Look at SARS or the swine flu. The CDC was in front of the situation and really contained it both times. With AIDS, the government's reaction was lacking exactly because they didn't have a policy of taking care of gay Americans.


But, I will continue to help all those in need, despite their individual bad behaviors.

The IRS thanks you.

[Midtowner]

No backing off needed, Vet.
Better to clear the air, and occassionally by posting while "in heat" you see how folks really think....or fail to do so.

I have worked with, and "commanded" many gays over the years. I have always respected the individual.
BUT...in general, my point is that the gay community can see no farther than their genitals when it comes to respecting others.....because this is just what they expect of others to do for them!
:disturbed:

Wow.

Might as well write us a diatribe on how the black man is mentally inferior to the white man or how Jews are in control of the media and using it for negative things. There is no "in general" about gays or straights. Everyone is an individual.

As a practicing family law attorney, I can say that straight men and women are just as likely to see no further than their genitals when it comes to respecting others as any other group.

[LiveLaughLove]

You are clearly insane and I shouldn't even try to respond to this crap.

I'm very respectful of the office of the president. That doesn't mean that I can't criticize former presidents for some very obvious policy missteps. President Reagan's early non-response to the AIDS epidemic cost millions of lives. There is very good reason that President Reagan deserves the middle finger. He failed us because he couldn't bring himself to say the word "gay", although we now know it is not just a gay disease.

By stark contrast, my former boss, Anand Panyarachun was appointed prime minister after the '91 coup d'état and appointed Mechai Viravaidyam to be his minister for tourism, information and AIDS. At that time, epidemic researchers were saying that Thailand would soon surpass Africa in the number of AIDS virus infections per population. It didn't happen just because of the tremendous awareness campaign immediately launched by Mechai and supported by Prime Minister Anand. I did get the chance to tell both of them how much their early campaign saved lives.

In other words, I have no problem with gay rights leaders giving former president Ronald Reagan the middle finger.

Complete and utter BS that was spewed ages ago to scare people in to action for switching spending from research on diseases that kill indiscriminately (like cancers) to AIDs research. There haven't been millions killed because of Reagan or any other President, that number is completely made up. What a ludicrous accusation. AIDs is 99.99% behavior driven. We were all told in the '80s, we were ALL going to die from it if we didn't get it researched and stopped. Bunk then, and bunk now!

You want to talk about people dying. My Uncle got bone cancer in the late '80s and died at 50 years old. The doctors told us that almost ALL of the research had shut down on cancer because of the hundreds of millions being poured in to AIDs research. So how many besides my Uncle have died from an indiscriminate disease, because of the switching of funding to a disease that is 99.99% curable by simply STOPPING putting your yingyang IN the OUT hole, or sharing needles with junkies?!

And then you want to say it's ok to flip off Reagan like it's HIS fault that people died from their own behavior?! What a freaking joke. Responsibility lies with the 99.99% that got it. Period. If anyone should be being flipped off, it should be the .01% that got it from blood transfusions flipping off those that brought it here in the first place. It should be cancer (and other diseases) families that have lost loved ones because of the loss of research that might have saved their lives, but they were sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

BTW, I'm glad AIDs research has come a long way in prolonging life. I'm not for anyone dying. Still, a penny really didn't have to be spent on it in the first place. Not one. I will NEVER get AIDs. Most of you here will NEVER get AIDs or even know someone that will. We do not have to worry for one single second about it. Because the simple truth is, it is behavioral. And for most of us, that behavior isn't something we have to worry about.

Those people flipping off Reagan need look know further than under their own noses for those responsible for the deaths of their friends because they either participated in those deadly activities with them, or gave tacit approval by their silence, or even active encouragement. If there are millions that have died, it is they and their complicit loved ones that are responsible. No one else.

[diverdog]

Hate to say it bro But I never liked "Lifers" Either.

Or officers. :). I be a working man.

To be fair before I got hurt I was offered an opportunity to get a commission. My debate was tempered by the fact that I was flying special ops missions and I did not want to go into a support role. I really loved my job.

[diverdog]

Complete and utter BS that was spewed ages ago to scare people in to action for switching spending from research on diseases that kill indiscriminately (like cancers) to AIDs research. There haven't been millions killed because of Reagan or any other President, that number is completely made up. What a ludicrous accusation. AIDs is 99.99% behavior driven. We were all told in the '80s, we were ALL going to die from it if we didn't get it researched and stopped. Bunk then, and bunk now!

You want to talk about people dying. My Uncle got bone cancer in the late '80s and died at 50 years old. The doctors told us that almost ALL of the research had shut down on cancer because of the hundreds of millions being poured in to AIDs research. So how many besides my Uncle have died from an indiscriminate disease, because of the switching of funding to a disease that is 99.99% curable by simply STOPPING putting your yingyang IN the OUT hole, or sharing needles with junkies?!

And then you want to say it's ok to flip off Reagan like it's HIS fault that people died from their own behavior?! What a freaking joke. Responsibility lies with the 99.99% that got it. Period. If anyone should be being flipped off, it should be the .01% that got it from blood transfusions flipping off those that brought it here in the first place. It should be cancer (and other diseases) families that have lost loved ones because of the loss of research that might have saved their lives, but they were sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

BTW, I'm glad AIDs research has come a long way in prolonging life. I'm not for anyone dying. Still, a penny really didn't have to be spent on it in the first place. Not one. I will NEVER get AIDs. Most of you here will NEVER get AIDs or even know someone that will. We do not have to worry for one single second about it. Because the simple truth is, it is behavioral. And for most of us, that behavior isn't something we have to worry about.

Those people flipping off Reagan need look know further than under their own noses for those responsible for the deaths of their friends because they either participated in those deadly activities with them, or gave tacit approval by their silence, or even active encouragement. If there are millions that have died, it is they and their complicit loved ones that are responsible. No one else.

You guys do know that HIV and AIDs is very prevelent in the hetero community....right. It isn't just a gay disease.

Millions have died world wide from this disease. At one time it was the leading killer of young adults in the US.

[diverdog]

As to the Catholic Church, asking a gay person to respect an organization which systemically discriminates against them and undermines their rights is like asking a Catholic to respect the KKK. That said, as a somewhat lapsed Catholic, the way things are going in that Church right now, what with the current Pope and his history with regard to sex abuse cases, no one should be treating those folks with respect.



Reagan probably deserves some of the blame. Governmental policy is pretty crucial when responding to outbreaks. Look at SARS or the swine flu. The CDC was in front of the situation and really contained it both times. With AIDS, the government's reaction was lacking exactly because they didn't have a policy of taking care of gay Americans.



The IRS thanks you.

I think the government got blindsided by AIDs. They really did not know what it was or how to react to it. I do not think Reagan wanted gays to die. He lost friends to the disease. IMHO I think the disease exploded and the government is still playing catch up.

[sappstuf]

You guys do know that HIV and AIDs is very prevelent in the hetero community....right. It isn't just a gay disease.

Millions have died world wide from this disease. At one time it was the leading killer of young adults in the US.

White male heteros don't even make the list of new cases even though they are the largest race group.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/images/fig-2_lg.gif

[marfacowboy]

Makes me think of one of my favorite lines in Lonesome Dove. Woodrow has just beat the crap out of the Army scout trying to take Dish's horse. He looks at the crowd of people and says, "I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it."

I support the rights of gays to marry and for people to live as they wish, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. But I do believe you should be respectful and observe expected levels of decorum. There's a right way and a wrong way to show your displeasure with things.

[okie52]

White male heteros don't even make the list of new cases even though they are the largest race group.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/images/fig-2_lg.gif

Good lord....White guys taking advantage of everyone else again.

[diverdog]

White male heteros don't even make the list of new cases even though they are the largest race group.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/images/fig-2_lg.gif

Worldwide Sapp....worldwide.

[okie52]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. They didn't break the Nancy Reagan chinaware. All they did is take pictures of rude hand gestures in front of portraits of former presidents for obvious and justified reasons, in my opinion. I can't imagine why anyone would seriously claim that visits to the White House would be above political expression, even as infantile as this one was. To claim otherwise, seems, yeah, just as infantile.

Now, I've never taken the White House tour or slept in the Lincoln bedroom. There could be White House guest rules that expressly forbid flipping off paintings of former presidents and taking pictures of it. If I ever get the chance to visit the oval office, I may inadvertently reach down and adjust my package. Sorry in advance for the lack of decorum.

If these are gay rights leaders trying to advance gay causes then their actions were very stupid. They (and you) can hate Reagan's guts all they want but their 5 year old behavior will do more to sabotage their causes than help them politically. It makes them look like a bunch of radical kooks (which they probably are anyway).

For someone like myself that would normally vote for gay marriage I might just vote against it just to fu*k with these perez hilton bull dykes and **** s*ckers and set them back for a while.

Sorry in advance for my lack of compassion.

[cleller]

So by some of this logic you would all support me if I wanted to go to the White House or Lincoln Monument and start making rude, childish gestures toward Abraham Lincoln's image because he was the cause of a lot of hardship for my ancestors? Or maybe JFK because he was so mean to some Vietnamese and Cubans?

What about that Marine memorial at Arlington, or the Tomb of the Unknowns? Why shouldn't they be included? Surely some Japanese-Americans have some beef that would entitle them to some flip-off photo ops there.

What ever happened to grown-up, mature behavior? People's sense of proper conduct ends with their hugely inflated egos.

[okie52]

So by some of this logic you would all support me if I wanted to go to the White House or Lincoln Monument and start making rude, childish gestures toward Abraham Lincoln's image because he was the cause of a lot of hardship for my ancestors? Or maybe JFK because he was so mean to some Vietnamese and Cubans?

What about that Marine memorial at Arlington, or the Tomb of the Unknowns? Why shouldn't they be included? Surely some Japanese-Americans have some beef that would entitle them to some flip-off photo ops there.

What ever happened to grown-up, mature behavior? People's sense of proper conduct ends with their hugely inflated egos.

Exactly.

Probably another reason why gay rights have advanced so slowly....they're being lead by juvenile delinquents.....not the village people but the village idiots.

[TitoMorelli]

Thanks for that cut and paste, TitoMorelli. I did live through the AIDS scare. I did lose a lot of friends. I don't guess you caught my post about how Thailand faced up to the AIDS epidemic very differently and was largely successful through a very effective awareness campaign.

I really don't think I was suckered into believing something different than what I saw and experienced.

From what I gleaned online, the government of Thailand didn't adopt a policy to address the problem until 1991, seven years after the first case was reported there. Other countries had already begun to address the problem before then. I don't understand why that's a feather in its hat or a slam at the Reagan administration.

You'd certainly know better than I, given your experience in the far east, but that's what I found from what little I researched.

Furthermore, unlike other outbreaks that gained far more attention initially, such as legionnaire's and SARS (both of which resulted in numerous fatalities in a far shorter time period from the time of onset), it seems to me that connecting the dots regarding the deaths of HIV-infected persons was probably more difficult.

Finally, I didn't know much about the disease initially, but by the mid-eighties I and most people I talked to had enough of a grasp on what actions seemed to be placing people most at risk. And if anything, most people took even greater precautions than one would take now. Even though I now know that I wasn't in any of the high-risk categories, I was worried enough from what I'd heard. And if we were that aware, even out here in fly-over country, I don't understand why people blame the administration for not doing enough..

[cleller]

According to UNICEF, The HIV rate among adults in Thailand is 1.3% vs 0.6% in the US. If adults in Thailand are more than twice as likely to have HIV, how does that make their approach more successful than the US?

[jkjsooner]

The obvious needs to be pointed out here. One or two individuals do not possibly speak for the entire gay population. It's a little unfair that some of you seem to be stereotyping the gay community based on the action of a few people.

This behavior was childish to say the least and it doesn't further the cause of gays but I'm sure many gay people would agree with that statement.

As for Reagan, criticism of him might be overdone by some but his administration was a failure in respect to the AIDS crisis. He slashed funding to the CDC right as the AIDS epidemic was being recognized. When the CDC set up a task force on AIDS it was horribly underfunded to the point where they didn't even have their own lab or equipment.

The absolute worst thing is the inaction by the administration when it came to the blood banks. When the evidence was clear that AIDS was being transmitted via blood products, the administration did nothing - essentially a death sentence to almost the entire hemophilia community.

While the administration deserves criticism, the blood banks deserve much more than just criticism. In my opinion, their refusal to act for selfish reasons essentially led to the death of thousands of hemophiliacs.

[okie52]

Well these idiots may not speak for the gay community but it seems they have the support of our resident gay guy...he11, he might give ole Ronnie a flick of the dic.

Reagan I'm sure reacted slowly on aids 25 years ago and if the gays want to hang him in effigy that's fine...but doing it at the white house was juvenile and stupid. I just hope Obama can get tied to this.

[LiveLaughLove]

Worldwide Sapp....worldwide.

Reagan wasn't chastised for worldwide AIDs. He was chastised for the spending on American AIDs. Nice sleight of hand though.

It's like the kid that gets drunk wrecks his car and gets thrown in jail. His parents decide not to bail him out, and he then rants and raves about what lousy parents he has while taking no blame upon himself.

We knew from almost day one what caused AIDs and how to stop it in it's tracks. Yet it continued to spread. Somehow that was Reagan's fault.

[soonercruiser]

White male heteros don't even make the list of new cases even though they are the largest race group.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/images/fig-2_lg.gif

So Sapp....I guess that a monogamous white male isn't considered "on the the same planet", huh?
I play golf and ride the cycle for entertainment.

[soonercruiser]

As to the Catholic Church, asking a gay person to respect an organization which systemically discriminates against them and undermines their rights is like asking a Catholic to respect the KKK. That said, as a somewhat lapsed Catholic, the way things are going in that Church right now, what with the current Pope and his history with regard to sex abuse cases, no one should be treating those folks with respect.

Reagan probably deserves some of the blame. Governmental policy is pretty crucial when responding to outbreaks. Look at SARS or the swine flu. The CDC was in front of the situation and really contained it both times. With AIDS, the government's reaction was lacking exactly because they didn't have a policy of taking care of gay Americans.
The IRS thanks you.

I just knew some LWer would use this issue to attack Catholic Church teaching. (You beat Diver to the punch.)
YOU are no better than Obama....you too, obviously have no respect for freedom of religion.
You would like to mandate what we beileve, and how we live. NO THANKS!
I will no bow down to the genital god!

Gays in general, want respect....but give NONE themselves!
I stand by that statement!

[cleller]

Reagan I'm sure reacted slowly on aids 25 years ago and if the gays want to hang him in effigy that's fine...but doing it at the white house was juvenile and stupid.




We knew from almost day one what caused AIDs and how to stop it in it's tracks. Yet it continued to spread. Somehow that was Reagan's fault.

Boiling things down to what they really are. Lack of maturity, lack of responsibility.

[diverdog]

I just knew some LWer would use this issue to attack Catholic Church teaching. (You beat Diver to the punch.)
YOU are no better than Obama....you too, obviously have no respect for freedom of religion.
You would like to mandate what we beileve, and how we live. NO THANKS!
I will no bow down to the genital god!

Gays in general, want respect....but give NONE themselves!
I stand by that statement!

Oops, I forgot to play:

Just this week in Philly


Ex-Philadelphia priest pleads guilty to sex abuse charges




AP File
Edward Avery was to have gone on trial Monday.


By Monique Braxton, NBC Philadelphia
A defrocked Philadelphia priest pleaded guilty to sexually molesting an altar boy Thursday, just days before a landmark priest abuse trial was set to start.
Edward Avery, 69, was sentenced to 2½ to 5 years in jail for involuntary deviate sexual intercourse and conspiracy to endanger children. He was ordered to surrender in 10 days, according to authorities.
Avery had been scheduled to go on trial Monday (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/6-Men-6-Women-Seated-on-Philly-Priest-Abuse-Jury-140900173.html)




According to court documents obtained by Philadelphia's NBC10, Avery admitted that in 1999, he "engaged in oral sexual intercourse" with a 10-year-old boy while Avery was a priest at St. Jerome's Parish in northeast Philadelphia. Avery was 57 at the time.

Cruiser gets outraged at some disrespectful gays giving the finger to some painting of former presidents. I have yet to ever see him condemn the Catholic Churches role in covering up that fact that a lot of priest sexually molested young boys and the church buried it.

[Chuck Bao]

If these are gay rights leaders trying to advance gay causes then their actions were very stupid. They (and you) can hate Reagan's guts all they want but their 5 year old behavior will do more to sabotage their causes than help them politically. It makes them look like a bunch of radical kooks (which they probably are anyway).

For someone like myself that would normally vote for gay marriage I might just vote against it just to fu*k with these perez hilton bull dykes and **** s*ckers and set them back for a while.

Sorry in advance for my lack of compassion.

Whatever. Some of your words already betray what you really think.

My only point here is that I understand why some feel betrayed as Americans by President Reagan's lack of action in the critical early stages of the epidemic while cutting the budget to the CDC.

I really don't see why anyone would get overly worked up about someone giving the finger to a portrait of a former US President and posting it on facebook. There are much, much more ruder things written here about President Obama and his family. Anyway, I've never intentionally been rude to anyone here or a current or former president. I do reserve the right to question the politics or policies.

As someone else mentioned, there are really no gay leaders who represent all of the gay community. I had never even heard of those people.

[Chuck Bao]

So by some of this logic you would all support me if I wanted to go to the White House or Lincoln Monument and start making rude, childish gestures toward Abraham Lincoln's image because he was the cause of a lot of hardship for my ancestors? Or maybe JFK because he was so mean to some Vietnamese and Cubans?

What about that Marine memorial at Arlington, or the Tomb of the Unknowns? Why shouldn't they be included? Surely some Japanese-Americans have some beef that would entitle them to some flip-off photo ops there.

What ever happened to grown-up, mature behavior? People's sense of proper conduct ends with their hugely inflated egos.

I do see a lot of pics posted on facebook and here at SF by some supposedly adults that make me cringe. I stopped posting in these threads because I'm told that I need a sense of humor.

[Chuck Bao]

From what I gleaned online, the government of Thailand didn't adopt a policy to address the problem until 1991, seven years after the first case was reported there. Other countries had already begun to address the problem before then. I don't understand why that's a feather in its hat or a slam at the Reagan administration.

You'd certainly know better than I, given your experience in the far east, but that's what I found from what little I researched.

Furthermore, unlike other outbreaks that gained far more attention initially, such as legionnaire's and SARS (both of which resulted in numerous fatalities in a far shorter time period from the time of onset), it seems to me that connecting the dots regarding the deaths of HIV-infected persons was probably more difficult.

Finally, I didn't know much about the disease initially, but by the mid-eighties I and most people I talked to had enough of a grasp on what actions seemed to be placing people most at risk. And if anything, most people took even greater precautions than one would take now. Even though I now know that I wasn't in any of the high-risk categories, I was worried enough from what I'd heard. And if we were that aware, even out here in fly-over country, I don't understand why people blame the administration for not doing enough..

You are correct about '91 being the correct date when a massive education campaign about the AIDS pandemic began in Thailand. It was very effective and lauded around the world at that time for a model for underdeveloped countries. And it wasn't too late to save countless lives.

Before this campaign, Thai politicians, like President Reagan, didn't want to even mention the word "gay" or even the word "sex". Unfortunately, the sex industry is very large in Thailand and sex workers are not very educated and from poor, rural parts of the country. Around that time, about 50% of the population had only a sixth grade education. UN health officials were projecting that AIDS in Thailand would soon rival the percentage infections in Africa and would be mainly heterosexually transmitted. Luckily and thanks to public awareness, that didn't happen.

[TitoMorelli]

Appreciate your input on the thread, Chuck. Not sure you'll have enough spare time to reply to everyone on here, but I applaud the effort you've made to address the different posts.

[Chuck Bao]

According to UNICEF, The HIV rate among adults in Thailand is 1.3% vs 0.6% in the US. If adults in Thailand are more than twice as likely to have HIV, how does that make their approach more successful than the US?

Unfortunately, the number of sex workers per population is probably 10 times bigger in Thailand than the US. Besides that, these sex workers are far less educated. I remember one supposed expert in the early 90s saying that the rate of infection would go to 10%. Yeah, that is frightening.

[cleller]

Unfortunately, the number of sex workers per population is probably 10 times bigger in Thailand than the US. Besides that, these sex workers are far less educated. I remember one supposed expert in the early 90s saying that the rate of infection would go to 10%. Yeah, that is frightening.

Eh, you got a point. Still, STDs are ancient and preventable. Like Okie said, be mad at Reagan, Obama, whoever you want. No reason to act like a soccer punk in the White House.

[olevetonahill]

Feeling betrayed by any of our leaders is OK .
Going into the White House and Disrespecting our Leaders are 2 entirely different things Chuck.

I support and Defend YOU as a Person
IMHO that Kinda behavior is just WRONG.

This IS NOT about AIDs or anything else. This is Pure disrespect
Im thru.

[jkjsooner]

We knew from almost day one what caused AIDs and how to stop it in it's tracks. Yet it continued to spread. Somehow that was Reagan's fault.

Nobody is saying it was Reagan's fault for people contracting AIDS.

The problem is that AIDS had been spreading throughout the large metropolitan areas for 10 years before it had been identified as a distinct disease. Most of those people who were being diagnosed with AIDS in the mid '80s contracted the disease before anyone had ever heard of it.


We knew from almost day one what caused AIDs and how to stop it in it's tracks. Yet it continued to spread. Somehow that was Reagan's fault.

Again this is totally false. The first known case of AIDS was in the late '50s. Even after the 1981 CDC report it was a good while before they started connecting the dots. For a while they thought it had to be drug related. The long incubation period really threw investigators off. In the early days it was hard to develop relationships between those infected as so many who had the virus had not yet come down with the disease.

[okie52]

Nobody is saying it was Reagan's fault for people contracting AIDS.

The problem is that AIDS had been spreading throughout the large metropolitan areas for 10 years before it had been identified as a distinct disease. Most of those people who were being diagnosed with AIDS in the mid '80s contracted the disease before anyone had ever heard of it.

I think for a long time in the 80's before it was called AIDS it was called the "Gay cancer". Could be wrong.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Anyone expect more from activists? Let's see, Bush steered Katrina and made it hit NOLA and Reagan made AIDS and caused it to infect the gays. I have a lot of concern for the ill, but AIDS for the most part spread like it did due to the sex culture present in that community. Even today, they don't have the tools to stop it totally, one mean virus. To blame anyone is just crazy.

[jkjsooner]

I think for a long time in the 80's before it was called AIDS it was called the "Gay cancer". Could be wrong.

Yes, it was called that and had an official term of GRID - gay related immune deficiency.

But even then they weren't at all sure it was an STD. It seems kind of odd to us now but they were looking at people who had the disease and none of their sexual partners had it.

It was probably partially a failure to think outside the box (as far as the possible long incubation period) but also a failure of the scientific community requiring strict evidence before taking action.

[jkjsooner]

Anyone expect more from activists? Let's see, Bush steered Katrina and made it hit NOLA and Reagan made AIDS and caused it to infect the gays.

Again, I've never heard anyone say any of these things. This is just an exaggeration to make the actual criticism seem less valid.

[C&CDean]

Actions like this remind me how far people have to go to actually realize equality. When people do stupid things like this it takes their cause backward several steps.

I know and like ol' Chuck very much, but I disagree vehemently with him on this one. Blaming Reagan for AIDS victims dying is pretty much like blaming any president for the millions who've died from lung cancer from smoking. Did Reagan drag his feet on AIDS? Probably, but what Chuck isn't thinking about is that our society/culture at the time wasn't ready to hear "gay sex." It wasn't a Reagan thing, it was a society thing.

These people aren't helping gays. They're hurting them. I dislike Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter as bad as anyone can dislike a former president. I would never do something like this; especially when I am an invited guest in the White House. Bad form, immature, and downright repugnant behavior by these ****wads. I was invited to be in a reception line to shake Clinton and Hillary's hand in Chicago when he was staying at the Hilton Towers. I quietly declined, and went to the bar instead. Like any adult would do.

[okie52]

White House scolds guests who flipped off Reagan portrait


The White House on Monday verbally rapped the knuckles of a pair of guests who posed for photographs giving former President Ronald Reagan's portrait the one-finger salute while attending a gay pride reception a week ago.
As first reported in Philadelphia Magazine, Matthew "Matty" Hart and photographer Zoe Strauss flipped off the Gipper's likeness and posted the pictures on their Facebook pages. The magazine posted the photographs.
"While the White House does not control the conduct of guests at receptions, we certainly expect that all attendees conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Most all do," a spokesman for President Barack Obama, Shin Inouye, said by email on Monday.
"These individuals clearly did not. Behavior like this doesn't belong anywhere, least of all in the White House," Inouye said. Reagan is a conservative icon but is reviled by gay activists who charge, among other things, that he ignored the burgeoning HIV/AIDS crisis.

.

[okie52]

Actions like this remind me how far people have to go to actually realize equality. When people do stupid things like this it takes their cause backward several steps.

I know and like ol' Chuck very much, but I disagree vehemently with him on this one. Blaming Reagan for AIDS victims dying is pretty much like blaming any president for the millions who've died from lung cancer from smoking. Did Reagan drag his feet on AIDS? Probably, but what Chuck isn't thinking about is that our society/culture at the time wasn't ready to hear "gay sex." It wasn't a Reagan thing, it was a society thing.

These people aren't helping gays. They're hurting them. I dislike Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter as bad as anyone can dislike a former president. I would never do something like this; especially when I am an invited guest in the White House. Bad form, immature, and downright repugnant behavior by these ****wads. I was invited to be in a reception line to shake Clinton and Hillary's hand in Chicago when he was staying at the Hilton Towers. I quietly declined, and went to the bar instead. Like any adult would do.

I'm certainly no fan of Carter either, but I would think anybody that would flip his pic off in the WH would look juvenile and stupid.

[pphilfran]

Nobody is saying it was Reagan's fault for people contracting AIDS.

The problem is that AIDS had been spreading throughout the large metropolitan areas for 10 years before it had been identified as a distinct disease. Most of those people who were being diagnosed with AIDS in the mid '80s contracted the disease before anyone had ever heard of it.



Again this is totally false. The first known case of AIDS was in the late '50s. Even after the 1981 CDC report it was a good while before they started connecting the dots. For a while they thought it had to be drug related. The long incubation period really threw investigators off. In the early days it was hard to develop relationships between those infected as so many who had the virus had not yet come down with the disease.

Gawd, damn...didn't know this...

[diverdog]

Gawd, damn...didn't know this...

That is why I said the got blindsided.

[cleller]

Actions like this remind me how far people have to go to actually realize equality. When people do stupid things like this it takes their cause backward several steps.

I know and like ol' Chuck very much, but I disagree vehemently with him on this one. Blaming Reagan for AIDS victims dying is pretty much like blaming any president for the millions who've died from lung cancer from smoking. Did Reagan drag his feet on AIDS? Probably, but what Chuck isn't thinking about is that our society/culture at the time wasn't ready to hear "gay sex." It wasn't a Reagan thing, it was a society thing.

These people aren't helping gays. They're hurting them. I dislike Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter as bad as anyone can dislike a former president. I would never do something like this; especially when I am an invited guest in the White House. Bad form, immature, and downright repugnant behavior by these ****wads. I was invited to be in a reception line to shake Clinton and Hillary's hand in Chicago when he was staying at the Hilton Towers. I quietly declined, and went to the bar instead. Like any adult would do.

Dang straight. Anyone with a head one his shoulders knew AIDS was an STD. Obvious, unless you were incredibly stupid. Does anyone blame a president for Syphilis? Why must the government serve everything to you in a silver spoon?
Be responsible, take care of yourselves for once.

[soonercruiser]

Oops, I forgot to play:

Just this week in Philly



Cruiser gets outraged at some disrespectful gays giving the finger to some painting of former presidents. I have yet to ever see him condemn the Catholic Churches role in covering up that fact that a lot of priest sexually molested young boys and the church buried it.

That's because you're FU***** idiot!
As I already have posted on it several times, and apparently the drugs have affected your memory.
I'm done playing that game with you and Mid!

[Chuck Bao]

People are talking but no one is really listening to each other, so this is my last post in this thread.


Nobody is saying it was Reagan's fault for people contracting AIDS.

True technically, but the failure to raise awareness and screen donors to the blood banks did when it was just becoming evident on how the disease was transmitted. It was a very valuable and costly lesson in preparing to fight a pandemic with a long incubation period. Hopefully, we now know that slow reaction to a pandemic will cause a lot of unnecessary deaths.


Blaming Reagan for AIDS victims dying is pretty much like blaming any president for the millions who've died from lung cancer from smoking. Did Reagan drag his feet on AIDS? Probably, but what Chuck isn't thinking about is that our society/culture at the time wasn't ready to hear "gay sex." It wasn't a Reagan thing, it was a society thing.

As jkjsooner said, it was first called Gay Cancer and then GRID before being more appropriately called AIDS and the HIV virus eventually identified. The bizarre thing to me is that the word "gay" never really needed to be said once the mode of transmission became clear and evidence that it was passed heterosexually as well, particularly in Africa. The Thai ad campaigns in '91 never mentioned the word "gay" (noted that they did have a couple of extra years for the evidence to emerge after the end of the Reagan administration). Besides that, our health care providers in the US and elsewhere in the world have been dealing with STDs for centuries and recommend the use of condoms, even though some religious groups really hate on that.

It really is a bit of a head scratcher for any government in the world to be afraid to promote the use of condoms.

Dean, you are entirely correct in saying that there are obvious parallels with late warnings about smoking and the possibility of lung cancer with unprotected sex with the possibility of AIDS. The thing about sex, though, is that STDs were generally easy to identify and treat at that time and besides most every adult likes sex. Exposure to the HIV virus was an automatic death sentence however one acquired it, through an unfaithful spouse, blood transfusion or just unbridled sex with numerous partners.


I'm certainly no fan of Carter either, but I would think anybody that would flip his pic off in the WH would look juvenile and stupid.

Yeah, I did say that it was juvenile. I did say that I wouldn’t do that. They were roundly condemned by the gay press and then the White House said that they would never be invited back. I only said that I understand their feelings. You guys for some reason want to make this into a major case of sacrilege because…oh right, the first observance of Gay Pride in the White House…that’s what really bothers most of you guys, go ahead and admit it.

Seriously folks, these were a few pics, not with or with the consent of White House officials. It obviously wasn’t staged. We only know about it because they later posted those pics on facebook. The real lesson really should be don’t post stupid and offensive pics on facebook, but I still see some of you doing just that.


Dang straight. Anyone with a head one his shoulders knew AIDS was an STD. Obvious, unless you were incredibly stupid. Does anyone blame a president for Syphilis? Why must the government serve everything to you in a silver spoon?

Be responsible, take care of yourselves for once.

If something bad happens to you, then you are entirely responsible and on your own in that human condition – just call it karma or even a very existentialistic philosophical view. I would agree to either before I would to clellar’s rather unfortunate post and historic revisionism.

[jkjsooner]

There are various explanations for Reagan's failure to react to AIDS. One has nothing at all to do with the nature of AIDS. Reagan philosophy of the role of federal government was a failure when it came to public health.

You can be a proponent of state's rights and limited federal government but it's hard to deny the fact that the federal government (in conjunction with international organizations) must play a large role in public health, especially as it related to communicable diseases. Drastically slashing funding for the CDC was a shortsighted mistake.

[olevetonahill]

Why can The Gov. Quarantine, a person with Small Pox or what ever but allow AIDS folk to run loose?

[C&CDean]

That's because you're FU***** idiot!
As I already have posted on it several times, and apparently the drugs have affected your memory.
I'm done playing that game with you and Mid!

Nuh uh. No way. Methinks you should stop posting after 10pm. It's quite obvious your past-10 posts are alcohol induced.

[jkjsooner]

Why can The Gov. Quarantine, a person with Small Pox or what ever but allow AIDS folk to run loose?

It's a very different situation. Smallpox (if it still existed outside of labs) can spread easily and rapidly. A quarantine for a limited period of time can halt the spread.

As has been pointed out several times in this thread, AIDS is not easily transmissible and any quarantine would have to be permanent.

My wife works for UNC hospitals. They recently published the results of a study that showed that the antiretroviral cocktails are remarkably effective against spreading the disease. The results were so conclusive that the study was terminated early. In that respect quarantine makes even less sense now.

[LiveLaughLove]

Nobody is saying it was Reagan's fault for people contracting AIDS.

The problem is that AIDS had been spreading throughout the large metropolitan areas for 10 years before it had been identified as a distinct disease. Most of those people who were being diagnosed with AIDS in the mid '80s contracted the disease before anyone had ever heard of it.



Again this is totally false. The first known case of AIDS was in the late '50s. Even after the 1981 CDC report it was a good while before they started connecting the dots. For a while they thought it had to be drug related. The long incubation period really threw investigators off. In the early days it was hard to develop relationships between those infected as so many who had the virus had not yet come down with the disease.

Interesting info, but you moved the bar. We were talking about Reagan, so I was relating the knowledge of what I remember from that time. I wasn't going for historical accuracy.

In the '80s by my recollection I was never worried about contracting it. My friends weren't either, my family wasn't also.

We knew our at least had a good grasp on what caused it and it wasn't anything we were doing.

Reagan was very much blamed for the spread of it and "allowing" gays to die.

Absurd a that seems.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

In other words, I have no problem with gay rights leaders giving former president Ronald Reagan the middle finger.

In the White House bro? I may dislike many Presidents for many different things, but if I'm invited to the White House I'm going to act respectfully.

Also, many people die of many different things. What makes your specific disease the President's responsiblity?

[okie52]

Yeah, I did say that it was juvenile. I did say that I wouldn’t do that. They were roundly condemned by the gay press and then the White House said that they would never be invited back. I only said that I understand their feelings. You guys for some reason want to make this into a major case of sacrilege because…oh right, the first observance of Gay Pride in the White House…that’s what really bothers most of you guys, go ahead and admit it.

Seriously folks, these were a few pics, not with or with the consent of White House officials. It obviously wasn’t staged. We only know about it because they later posted those pics on facebook. The real lesson really should be don’t post stupid and offensive pics on facebook, but I still see some of you doing just that.





So we agree. That's all any of us (that I've seen) have said but you seem to be very defensive about their behavior. First observance of Gay Pride at the WH...LOL. He11, I was a lot more upset that Obama named June as gay pride month than any invitation he would give to homos to visit the WH. Gays and Gay pride aren't really a big deal anymore Chuck so get over it. Homos aren't the center of the universe and not that many people really care. Homos (or anyone) acting like 5 year olds in the WH is still a big deal.

Gay pride parades are just so passe'. The only exciting thing about one might be if someone bent over Bloomberg and gave him a good ride (or maybe a 32oz Coke enema).

Ya see some of us posting stupid stuff on facebook? God forbid.

[Condescending Sooner]

Thanks for that cut and paste, TitoMorelli. I did live through the AIDS scare. I did lose a lot of friends. I don't guess you caught my post about how Thailand faced up to the AIDS epidemic very differently and was largely successful through a very effective awareness campaign.

I really don't think I was suckered into believing something different than what I saw and experienced.

You didn't even read the article, did you?

[soonercruiser]

Nuh uh. No way. Methinks you should stop posting after 10pm. It's quite obvious your past-10 posts are alcohol induced.

Now, now Dean!
You know nothing about my personal habits.
I actually have one bottle of Shiner Bach left in the fridge, from the six pack I bought last month.

Diver and Mid make me sick and tired of back-tracking with the return to the pedifile priests attacks...(for lack of any good facts to refute discussions at hand)........when I have posted many times that those beasts, and any Bishops that protected them, just like Jerry Sandusky should rot in jail, and then be judged harshly on the Last Day!
Other posters here and the old OUI site should back me on that!
I have never defended them!

Having such a memory problem and repeating unjust accusations against me....should be considered personal attacks also!

They are just upset 'cause they don't believe in the Last Judgement!
So, they're leaving it to Holder to enforce the laws of the land.
:bi_polo:

[olevetonahill]

Now, now Dean!
You know nothing about my personal habits.
I actually have one bottle of Shiner Bach left in the fridge, from the six pack I bought last month.

Diver and Mid make me sick and tired of back-tracking with the return to the pedifile priests attacks...(for lack of any good facts to refute discussions at hand)........when I have posted many times that those beasts, and any Bishops that protected them, just like Jerry Sandusky should rot in jail, and then be judged harshly on the Last Day!
Other posters here and the old OUI site should back me on that!
I have never defended them!

Having such a memory problem and repeating unjust accusations against me....should be considered personal attacks also!

They are just upset 'cause they don't believe in the Last Judgement!
So, they're leaving it to Holder to enforce the laws of the land.
:bi_polo:

Well Iffen ya aint drankin, Can I have some of what yer smokin?

[okie52]

Well Iffen ya aint drankin, Can I have some of what yer smokin?


Papers please.

[olevetonahill]

Papers please.
Well ****, Busted again.

[C&CDean]

Now, now Dean!
You know nothing about my personal habits.
I actually have one bottle of Shiner Bach left in the fridge, from the six pack I bought last month.

Diver and Mid make me sick and tired of back-tracking with the return to the pedifile priests attacks...(for lack of any good facts to refute discussions at hand)........when I have posted many times that those beasts, and any Bishops that protected them, just like Jerry Sandusky should rot in jail, and then be judged harshly on the Last Day!
Other posters here and the old OUI site should back me on that!
I have never defended them!

Having such a memory problem and repeating unjust accusations against me....should be considered personal attacks also!

They are just upset 'cause they don't believe in the Last Judgement!
So, they're leaving it to Holder to enforce the laws of the land.
:bi_polo:

What you're not getting is that you're every bit as big a ****wad as they are. I agree with your politics, however, the way you go about attempting to get others to see things your way/attacking libs is not gonna fly. People like you (and your loudmouth party-line chump liberal counterparts) are the problem in America. You don't want to get along, you don't want harmony or peace; you want to argue/spout horse****/etc. and look where that kind of crap has gotten us.

[soonercruiser]

Papers please.

Papers!!!????

I am a citizen by birth!
:cheerful:
(And, I don't own cats or a canary.)

[soonercruiser]

What you're not getting is that you're every bit as big a ****wad as they are. I agree with your politics, however, the way you go about attempting to get others to see things your way/attacking libs is not gonna fly. People like you (and your loudmouth party-line chump liberal counterparts) are the problem in America. You don't want to get along, you don't want harmony or peace; you want to argue/spout horse****/etc. and look where that kind of crap has gotten us.

Sorry!
A personal attack is a personal attack.
What's fair is fair for all!

(Thanks for your opinion.)
Just in case you wishy washy moderates haven't been awake lately.....our very culture and the nation are at risk.

We are at a great crossroads.
This is a time to stand up and fight if you value the Republic.
Folks that think like moderates gave us McLame as a Repug candidate against the Messiah!
The "kinder and gentler" approach allows the LW to take a mile....not just the inch you desire.

We have continued "down the slippery slope" of immorality and secularism to the detriment of the nation. And, my father and I, and my brothers in arms didn't fight just to give it away without a fight....be it verbal & physical.

So, literally "moderate" (no pun) as you wish.
Just don't expect folks with a strong moral center to "go along, to get along"!

[Midtowner]

I just knew some LWer would use this issue to attack Catholic Church teaching. (You beat Diver to the punch.)
YOU are no better than Obama....you too, obviously have no respect for freedom of religion.
You would like to mandate what we beileve, and how we live. NO THANKS!
I will no bow down to the genital god!

That does not logically follow from anything I said. Not respecting Popes who had a hand in covering for pedophiles doesn't have squat to do with me having no respect for religion. In fact, I might say Catholic higher-ups who failed to act have a lot less respect for their religion than I do. As far as my present respect, I'd have some respect for the Church if the Pope would resign along with any official who had anything remotely to do with covering up the abuse cases. I might even start going back to church then. Until that comes to pass, or at least the old farts die off, I wouldn't be staying true to my convictions if I darkened the door of a church. As far as a genital god goes, I'm beginning to see why C&C keeps alluding to your drinking/smoking problem. That's some truly crazy stuff.


Gays in general, want respect....but give NONE themselves!
I stand by that statement!

That's pretty categorical. Anderson Cooper gives no respect? How about that girly kid on Glee? He seems pretty respectful. Ellen Degeneres.. pretty respectful. What a silly thing to say. Barney Frank? A bit of a libtard, but generally a pretty respectful fella.

[C&CDean]

Sorry!
A personal attack is a personal attack.
What's fair is fair for all!

(Thanks for your opinion.)
Just in case you wishy washy moderates haven't been awake lately.....our very culture and the nation are at risk.

We are at a great crossroads.
This is a time to stand up and fight if you value the Republic.
Folks that think like moderates gave us McLame as a Repug candidate against the Messiah!
The "kinder and gentler" approach allows the LW to take a mile....not just the inch you desire.

We have continued "down the slippery slope" of immorality and secularism to the detriment of the nation. And, my father and I, and my brothers in arms didn't fight just to give it away without a fight....be it verbal & physical.

So, literally "moderate" (no pun) as you wish.
Just don't expect folks with a strong moral center to "go along, to get along"!

OK, let me get this straight. In your bizarro world one has to be a loudmouth ****ing idiot to be righteous? Anyone who would rather talk to the other side reasonably is "wishy washy?" Those of us true conservatives that don't scream like a dip**** are now "moderates?" Those of us that don't foam at the mouth screaming "the end is near, the LW is stealing us blind, don't you see it?" are somehow lost?

You're a fool. Every bit as foolish as "them." In fact, moreso because you should know better. You've allowed yourself to be brainwashed to the point of being the village idiot of the paranoid right. Yeah, Obama is ****ing up our country. I know. We know. It's bad. Really, really bad. And spewing hatred and vitriol is the exact thing that's gonna fix it. Meh.

Perhaps you should lay off the steady diet of Limbaugh, Borsch, Savage, Greta, Hannity, et.al and take a deep breath and think for yourself.

[soonercruiser]

OK, let me get this straight. In your bizarro world one has to be a loudmouth ****ing idiot to be righteous? Anyone who would rather talk to the other side reasonably is "wishy washy?" Those of us true conservatives that don't scream like a dip**** are now "moderates?" Those of us that don't foam at the mouth screaming "the end is near, the LW is stealing us blind, don't you see it?" are somehow lost?

You're a fool. Every bit as foolish as "them." In fact, moreso because you should know better. You've allowed yourself to be brainwashed to the point of being the village idiot of the paranoid right. Yeah, Obama is ****ing up our country. I know. We know. It's bad. Really, really bad. And spewing hatred and vitriol is the exact thing that's gonna fix it. Meh.

Perhaps you should lay off the steady diet of Limbaugh, Borsch, Savage, Greta, Hannity, et.al and take a deep breath and think for yourself.

:torn:
I sooooo much want to be loved!

[C&CDean]

Then stop acting like a dildo.

[jkjsooner]

Then stop acting like a dildo.

Isn't this thread about people who do love dildos?

Sorry, bad joke.

[olevetonahill]

OK, let me get this straight. In your bizarro world one has to be a loudmouth ****ing idiot to be righteous? Anyone who would rather talk to the other side reasonably is "wishy washy?" Those of us true conservatives that don't scream like a dip**** are now "moderates?" Those of us that don't foam at the mouth screaming "the end is near, the LW is stealing us blind, don't you see it?" are somehow lost?

You're a fool. Every bit as foolish as "them." In fact, moreso because you should know better. You've allowed yourself to be brainwashed to the point of being the village idiot of the paranoid right. Yeah, Obama is ****ing up our country. I know. We know. It's bad. Really, really bad. And spewing hatred and vitriol is the exact thing that's gonna fix it. Meh.

Perhaps you should lay off the steady diet of Limbaugh, Borsch, Savage, Greta, Hannity, et.al and take a deep breath and think for yourself.


Dean I tried to discuss this in this thread :watermelon:

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?166837-Remember-when-we-only-had-a-small-handfull&highlight=

[soonercruiser]

Isn't this thread about people who do love dildos?

Sorry, bad joke.

No! "On point"!
:culpability:

[soonercruiser]

Oops, I forgot to play:

Just this week in Philly

Cruiser gets outraged at some disrespectful gays giving the finger to some painting of former presidents. I have yet to ever see him condemn the Catholic Churches role in covering up that fact that a lot of priest sexually molested young boys and the church buried it.

This is the post that was a lie about me....a personal attack on me!
Because I have condemned....many times.....
But, the poor memory gets a pass!

And, just in case no one noticed, the LW tactic of...change the subject at hand....use "one bad behaivor justifies another bad behavior".

[C&CDean]

So, what I'm hearing is that you're a Catholic priest who molests children? That's what I'm reading here.

[Midtowner]

Cruiser gets outraged at some disrespectful gays giving the finger to some painting of former presidents. I have yet to ever see him condemn the Catholic Churches role in covering up that fact that a lot of priest sexually molested young boys and the church buried it.

I haven't even once seen him say that he condemns the holocaust either.

What a monster.

Pretty sure he's going to accuse me of an Alinskian tactic for saying this and then say that it's Alinskian to accuse him of accusing me of using an Alinskian tactic.

Again.. what a monster.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I just want to make it clear that I'm against molesting young boys. And the holocaust.

[olevetonahill]

I just want to make it clear that I'm against molesting young boys. And the holocaust.
So yer Ok with molesting animals then?

[diverdog]

Now, now Dean!
You know nothing about my personal habits.
I actually have one bottle of Shiner Bach left in the fridge, from the six pack I bought last month.

Diver and Mid make me sick and tired of back-tracking with the return to the pedifile priests attacks...(for lack of any good facts to refute discussions at hand)........when I have posted many times that those beasts, and any Bishops that protected them, just like Jerry Sandusky should rot in jail, and then be judged harshly on the Last Day!
Other posters here and the old OUI site should back me on that!
I have never defended them!

Having such a memory problem and repeating unjust accusations against me....should be considered personal attacks also!

They are just upset 'cause they don't believe in the Last Judgement!
So, they're leaving it to Holder to enforce the laws of the land.
:bi_polo:

1. I do not ever remember you condeming the church over the pedophile priest issue. If you did I do not remember it.

2. I am pretty sure I sided with righties on the poor behavior of these activist. In fact, I linked an article supporting Reagan and praise Bush on his AIDs work in Africa.

3. Cruiser to have salvation with God you do not need to be a member of some monolithic organization that is more concerned about political power than sherparding its flock.

[soonercruiser]

Thank you Pastor Dog!
But, you have a horrible memory.......your post in question.
Try increasing you intake of Coconut oil!

[diverdog]

Thank you Pastor Dog!
But, you have a horrible memory.......your post in question.
Try increasing you intake of Coconut oil!

Okay I will give you the benefit of doubt and take you word for it. That does not mean I will not remain highly critical of the church until they get rid of this Pope and clean house.

[soonercruiser]

Yes,
But will you be equally critical of sexuals assaults by the higher percentage offenders...teachers....sports coaches...etc.....?

I do not expect a perfect "world" until "life after".
As agent Molder said....."trust no one"!

A high percentage of the Catholic clergy trained in the 60's had "poor formation" (got this admission from several priests) and were probably told that they'd be able to get married by the year 1980 (after Vacican II). A fairly close friend of the wiffie - her son left the seminary......after one of his priest professors tried to kiss him and insisted on carrying his books around for several months. Her son is now married with several children. Of the 3 priests at the WVU chapel during my undergrad years.....all have left the priesthood....including the one that married us.
All sad stories...but a sign of the times and our culture.
But, we have chosen to stay and fight! And, progress is beiong made.
Hopefully the HHS mandate battle will wake up a few more Catholics, priests, and Bishops.
Otherwise, Obama will soon be appointing the Bishops like they do in China.

[diverdog]

Yes,
But will you be equally critical of sexuals assaults by the higher percentage offenders...teachers....sports coaches...etc.....?

I do not expect a perfect "world" until "life after".
As agent Molder said....."trust no one"!

A high percentage of the Catholic clergy trained in the 60's had "poor formation" (got this admission from several priests) and were probably told that they'd be able to get married by the year 1980 (after Vacican II). A fairly close friend of the wiffie - her son left the seminary......after one of his priest professors tried to kiss him and insisted on carrying his books around for several months. Her son is now married with several children. Of the 3 priests at the WVU chapel during my undergrad years.....all have left the priesthood....including the one that married us.
All sad stories...but a sign of the times and our culture.
But, we have chosen to stay and fight! And, progress is beiong made.
Hopefully the HHS mandate battle will wake up a few more Catholics, priests, and Bishops.
Otherwise, Obama will soon be appointing the Bishops like they do in China.

Cruiser:

The reason I am critical of the church is that child abuse has almost been institutionalized in the church. Read about the orphanages in Ireland. The only way the church is going to get cleaned up is through a massive purge in leadership and that will not happen.

The other area that should be addressed is allowing woman and married men/women become priest. The church use to allow marriage and a number of popes were married. Doing this solves a number of problems and I also think puts a more human face on the church.

Being Irish Catholic I have had a number of friends enter and leave the priesthood. All of them left to have families and are good men. There should be no reason they should not have been able to stay. And you probably fall over for what I am about to say but I would not be opposed to you becomming a priest. As long as you keep politics away from the pulpit you would probably do a good job. :)

The only thing that still keeps me tied to the church is that I went to Jesuit schools. I like the order and when I thought about being a priest in my youth that is where I would have gone. You may be surprised to know noted TV political commentator John McLaughlin was a Jesuit. Anyway I am sure you figured I come from a more liberal and outspoken background of the church.

Finally, I have zero tolerance for child abuse or any mistreatment of a child by anyone. As a scout leader I know the BSA was involved in a few coverups and a few people were fired. In my opinion that was not enough. The BSA does extensive police background checks and finger printing. All leaders are required to take youth protection training and all parents must sign off on YPT in the scout books before their children go through scouts. Our charter organization is a methodist church and we go through their youth awareness program. All of this training is biannual and is mandatory for 100% of our adults. Without it the units cannot be rechartered. Sadly there will still be cases of abuse but hopefully it is identified early on, stopped and the abuser goes to jail. What needs to happen in the case of abuse whether it is in the church or scouts or schools is that the investigative body needs to be law enforcement and they are the final arbitrators on what needs to happen.

[soonercruiser]

How you liking them Jesuits now?
They are/have been having their own share of problems.

The biggest issue to me is......taking your ball and going home changes nothing.
The Church has given the laiety great responsibility for being watchdogs (no pun intended) for the Church.
You can only affect change from within, and after a "Good Fight"!
Lots of Catholics just p*** and moan; or leave and go elsewhere. (Just like they do in their marriages.)