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Tear Down This Wall
6/21/2012, 12:35 PM
I don't know if these squads should have been national champions, but the Top Two Stoops' squads that wasted great defenses were the 2001 and 2009.

2001 was his best defense, giving up only 169 points the entire season; 2009 squad gave up only 189. Both lower than the 194 given up by the 2000 National Championship squad.

2001 squad went 11-2, 2 losses were:
-Nebraska, 20-10: Jason White's first freak knee injury game
-Oklahoma State, 16-13: We squander three first half turnovers by the Pokes in our territory; they throw the winning TD pass with 1:36 left in the game.

2009 squad went 8-5, 5 losses were:
-BYU, 14-13: After throwing a TD pass to Ryan Broyles in the 1st quarter, Sam Bradford is knocked out of the game with a shoulder injury. BYU throws winning TD with 3:03 left in the game. OU drives down to the BYU 32 with 1:38 left on the clock. Instead of running two more plays up the middle to make BYU use their final timeouts and kill clock, Stoops' offensive brain trust opt to throw to passes. Our offensive line draws a 5 yard false start penalty. Jimmy Stevens misses a 54-yard field goal. Stupid offensive coaching plus the injury to Bradford waste a great defensive effort.

-Miami, 21-20: OU's offense dick-bones the defense several times. In the second quarter, leading 10-7, OU drives form it's 18 to the Miami 42. A nine-yard completion to the 33 is erase by a holding call. Offense dicks around, gaining two yards on two pass plays and a rush; turns the ball over to Miami with 2 second left in the half.

Third quarter, OU coughs up the lead for good early in the second half. Mosis Madu takes the second half kickoff to the...15. Two plays later, Landry Jones is sacked, and fumbles the ball. Miami recovers at the 11, then throw the go ahead TD pass on the next play.

Fourth quarter, Miami gets the ball back at their 27 with 4:18 left. They drive down to our 18 and run out the clock. Stupid.

-Texas, 16-13: Sam Bradford returned the week before against Baylor. In this game, Bradford's shoulder is reinjured less than four minutes into the game. Texas generally sucks, but not enough on this day; they eke out a 3 point win.

At this point in the season, we fall to 3-3, losing to BYU, Miami, and Texas by a combined 5 points. But, we kicked the hell out of Idaho State, Tulsa, and Baylor. Woo-hoo. Who really gives a crap.

-Nebraska, 10-3: Nebraska's offense generates a whopping 180 yards against our defense, 63 of it on one run by Roy Helu. Yes, our defense dominated the game to that degree. Our offense puts up 325 yards, not great, but not as horrible as the Huskers on that day. Our probem - Landry Jones throws 5 interceptions.

-Texas Tech, 41-13: Just stupid. Giving up 187 yards to Tech...on the ground? Easily one of the worst prepared teams in the Stoops era, rivaled only by the 2005 Texas and 2002 Oklahoma State game. Just a fat egg laid all the way around.

So, four losses by a combined 12 points...and a heinous egg laid at deplorable Texas Tech. The 2009 season was nothing but a nightmare. That and 2005 as a whole were awful. But, the 2001 and 2009 defenses had the ability to get us to the championship game. Our offense and some boneheaded coaching on the offensive side of the ball did us in...and people were pissed-off at Venables at times? Stupid.

Morals of the story:
(1) Have a freaking backup quarterback ready AT ALL TIMES.
(2) Do not turn the ball over
(3) Be smart about clock management and field position
(4) Have teams prepared for EVERY game


In the Switzer years, the 1986 defense:
-gives up only 81 points all season
-produces 5 shut outs
-hold two more opponents to just a field goal
-holds Arkansas to 8 points in the bowl game
-gives up 20+ only once - the season's only loss: a 28-16 bomb to Miami. Awful.


The most heartbreaking seasons for me have been 1986 and 2001. So much wasted in those two seasons. Throw in 1994 after we had been given false hope by a 9-3 finish in 1993. I really thought Gary Gibbs had turned the corner after that season and was excited about 1994. Horrible season, 1994.

picasso
6/21/2012, 01:37 PM
Dude, that '86 Miami team was better than us. We were right with them in '85 and '87.

And it's not fair comparing defenses with the Switzer era. Times they be a different.

badger
6/21/2012, 01:57 PM
-Nebraska, 20-10: Jason White's first freak knee injury game
-Oklahoma State, 16-13: We squander three first half turnovers by the Pokes in our territory; they throw the winning TD pass with 1:36 left in the game.

Unhappy memories. I was at both games. I'd be bitter about Nebbish, but their fans are too nice to be angry at, even when they're bolting for the B1G. The Pokes, however, rushed OUr field after victory. OUR FIELD! In Norman! At least they didn't attempt to take down our goalpost(s), or I have a feeling there would have been an all-out brawl to protect our turf. There was still a huge crowd there, as it was a close game till the bitter end :(

agoo758
6/21/2012, 03:00 PM
I feel we are overstating the 2009 defense. What were our best games? Against a backup quarterback in the Sun Bowl? Against Zac Lee?? Against an extremely disappointing Zac Robinson? Not to mention the only above average offense that we played in Lubbock absolutely demolished us. In my opinion, if we took that team to the 2008 season, we lose 7 or 8 games, not 5, and our D doesn't look all that good.

KantoSooner
6/21/2012, 03:27 PM
The difference between the defenses of the 70's and 80's vs what we have now is that opponents were physically afraid of OU's defenses then. They were fast, exceptionally strong and almost every man had an explosion through the tackle that left victims with the terrible choice of heaving air into their suddenly empty lungs or heaving lunch out of their suddenly inhospitable stomachs.

We need to go back to that.

Salt City Sooner
6/21/2012, 04:38 PM
I feel we are overstating the 2009 defense. What were our best games? Against a backup quarterback in the Sun Bowl? Against Zac Lee?? Against an extremely disappointing Zac Robinson? Not to mention the only above average offense that we played in Lubbock absolutely demolished us. In my opinion, if we took that team to the 2008 season, we lose 7 or 8 games, not 5, and our D doesn't look all that good.
Curious as to your definition of above average....

goingoneight
6/21/2012, 05:06 PM
Lots of spin in this thread.
How many elite offenses did the 2001 defense play? I'm not knocking one of my favorite defenses, but we had it easy that year. We still gave up game-changing plays that lost two games for us.
2009 wasn't a spectacular year, I'll give you that... but again, that was a down year offensively in the BIG 12. That season is dramatically different with Sam Bradford, DeMarco Murray, Brody Eldridge, Austin Box, Jermaine Gresham and Ryan Broyles all healthy wire-to-wire.
Moral of the story is a pipe dream. If OSU lost Weeden (their Sam Bradford), Randle (poor man's Murray), Blackmon (top receiver), and a couple of their best blockers, where are THEY last year? Injuries have depleted title hopes WAY more than a couple of questionable coaching decisions.
I will say this much... when you are up 35-14 on a lowly opponent who literally is overwhelmed by you, there's no sense in letting the backup QB watch until you're up 62-28. If you don't trust your backup to protect a three possession lead, I question why he and his underclassmen on the depth chart are where they're at. But, padding stats brings home hardware, too.

thecrimsoncrusader
6/22/2012, 11:15 AM
Dude, that '86 Miami team was better than us. We were right with them in '85 and '87.

And it's not fair comparing defenses with the Switzer era. Times they be a different.

Miami was only better than Oklahoma in the head to head matchup, not the better team that would beat more teams out there than Oklahoma. Miami's edge was more so about Jimmy Johnson's history with the Oklahoma football program when he worked for Switzer than Miami's actual talent level that no doubt was stellar. It wasn't Miami's speed that did OU's option offense in as much as it was knowing when and where to go and the tendencies. You always look faster than you are when you know that. Kind of like the 2004 season Orange bowl when USC read OU's offense like a book. They were running to where Oklahoma was going to hand off the ball before the ball was ever even snapped. I was impressed that AD managed to get 80 yards in that game despite that.

Jason White's Third Knee
6/22/2012, 11:58 AM
I am not sure that "dick-boned" is a football term.

Tear Down This Wall
6/22/2012, 01:08 PM
It's not really the case that the 2001 and 2009 Sooners faced an easier schedule. In fact, the 2000 and 2001 schedule are about the same in strength. The 2009 schedule was more difficult than both.

2001 Opponents
North Carolina: 8-5, Peach Bowl winners
Air Force: 6-6
North Texas: 5-7, New Orleans Bowl loser (yes...they were allowed to go to a bowl game because they won their crappy conference)
Kansas State: 6-6, Insight Bowl loser
Texas: 11-2, Holiday Bowl winner
Kansas: 3-8
Baylor: 3-8
Nebraska: 11-2, Rose Bowl loser
Tulsa: 1-10
Texas A&M: 8-4, Galleryfurniture.com Bowl winner
Texas Tech: 7-5, Alamo Bowl loser
Oklahoma State: 4-7
Arkansas: 7-5, Cotton Bowl loser
Opponents total: 80-75 (.516 winning percentage), 8 bowl teams

2009 Opponents
BYU: 11-2, Las Vegas Bowl winner
Idaho State: 1-10
Tulsa: 5-7
Miami: 9-4, Champs Sports Bowl loser
Baylor: 4-8
Texas: 13-1, BCS Championship Game loser
Kansas: 5-7
Kansas State: 6-6
Nebraska: 10-4, Holiday Bowl winner
Texas A&M: 6-7, Independence Bowl loser
Texas Tech: 9-4, Alamo Bowl winner
Oklahoma State: 9-4, Cotton Bowl loser
Stanford: 8-5, Sun Bowl loser
Opponents total: 96-69 (.582 winning percentage), 8 bowl teams

2000 Opponents
UTEP: 8-4, Humanitarian Bowl loser
Arkansas State: 1-10
Rice: 3-8
Kansas: 4-7
Texas: 9-3, Holiday Bowl loser
Kansas State: 11-3, Cotton Bowl winner
Nebraska: 10-2, Alamo Bowl winner
Baylor: 2-9
Texas A&M: 7-5, Independence Bowl loser
Texas Tech: 7-6, Galleryfurniture.com Bowl loser
Oklahoma State: 3-8
Florida State: 11-2, Orange Bowl loser
Opponents total: , 76-67 (.531 winning percentage), 7 bowl teams

Take I-AA Idaho State out of the 2009 schedule, and you're looking at playing schools whose combined record was 95-59 (.616 winning percentage). That's high.

The 2001 and 2009 defenses were great, equal to or better than the 2000 defense. All were great. But, the 2001 and 2009 efforts were wasted.

texaspokieokie
6/22/2012, 03:08 PM
Miami was only better than Oklahoma in the head to head matchup, not the better team that would beat more teams out there than Oklahoma. Miami's edge was more so about Jimmy Johnson's history with the Oklahoma football program when he worked for Switzer than Miami's actual talent level that no doubt was stellar. It wasn't Miami's speed that did OU's option offense in as much as it was knowing when and where to go and the tendencies. You always look faster than you are when you know that. Kind of like the 2004 season Orange bowl when USC read OU's offense like a book. They were running to where Oklahoma was going to hand off the ball before the ball was ever even snapped. I was impressed that AD managed to get 80 yards in that game despite that.He & Switzer were both assistants. Johnson didn't do well against OU when @ osu. Miami was the better team, IMHO. Of course, Johnson had a lot to do with them being better.

KantoSooner
6/22/2012, 03:47 PM
Miami was also a far dirtier team than OU and was pretty obviously coached to be so. Aikman's broken leg was a pure assassination; no ifs ands or buts about it.

That Switzer didn't send someone to break Vinny's spine in retaliation is a tribute to his personal morality. I certainly would not have been as big hearted.

The bottom line is that Miami is scum and no degree of rehab will ever move them out of that category.

Salt City Sooner
6/22/2012, 08:20 PM
He & Switzer were both assistants. Johnson didn't do well against OU when @ osu. Miami was the better team, IMHO. Of course, Johnson had a lot to do with them being better.
True from an overall standpoint, but after a rocky first couple of years, OSU acquitted themselves pretty well against OU from a defensive standpoint (OU avgd. less than 4 YPC in JJ's last 2 years there). It was their offense that was the culprit in their losses much more than their D.

I do however, disagree w/ CC's assertion that Miami's speed on D didn't have anything to do with their success against OU. I agree w/ the point about them knowing OU's tendencies, but you have to couple that with the physical ability to exploit that knowledge. Take Nebraska for example. Osborne & Switzer took over their respective programs in the same year, both after being OC at those schools for several years prior. There were virtually no secrets between the 2 other than the occasional wrinkle like the TE reverse, or the fumblerooski. Yet OU had considerably more success against them than they ever did against Miami. The primary reason? Team speed. All one has to do is look at the highlights to see that Switzer's teams were overall faster than NU's, & the results bore that out a whole lot more often than not.