Executive Amnesty For Illegals

[soonercruiser]

So, Mid, here we go again with another example of Obama and his administration going around Congress....this time on Immigtaions Reform.

This shows how desperate that Obama is for votes!


U.S. to Stop Deporting Some Illegal Immigrants
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303822204577468343924191180.html

By JARED A. FAVOLE And LAURA MECKLER
WASHINGTON—The Obama administration said it wouldn't deport many younger illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children, a major shift in the middle of an election season where the Hispanic vote could be pivotal.

The new rules came in response to frequent pleas by Hispanic and other groups for more lenient treatment of people who came to the U.S. illegally as youngsters. The rules quickly drew criticism from those who want a tougher stance on illegal immigration and oppose what they call amnesty.

"These young people do not present a risk to safety or security," said Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in a conference call with reporters. President Barack Obama was scheduled to discuss the new rules at the White House Friday afternoon.

Mr. Obama has harshly criticized Republicans for their stance on immigration. In April, Mr. Obama used the word "hypocrisy" in arguing that many Republicans are trying to appeal to Hispanic voters while taking policy stances that those voters oppose.

In 2010, Mr. Obama made a push in Congress for the Dream Act, which would give a path to citizenship for people who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children if they went to college or enrolled in the military. It failed, owing mainly to Republican opposition.

Many Republicans say that immigration policy shouldn't encourage law-breaking, and they say granting amnesty would simply encourage more people to cross the border illegally in the future. Opponents describe the Dream Act and more sweeping proposals that would also affect older people as forms of amnesty.

Why not older illegals?
Why not sponsor "Comprehensivbe Immigration Reform".

Because Obama would have to negotiate on the rules. And, the Dictator wants his way...or the highway!
And, he wants the illegal immigrants voting for him in the upcoming election.

That's why the DOJ is fighting the states over Voter I.D. Laws!
GOD forbid that only registered citizens would vote!

[okie52]

No surprise here. This guy wanted to give them driver licenses.

[badger]

Meh, we have tons of foreign workers here on green cards. This just adds to the pool of taxpaying workers.

The question is --- will the fear of being deported cause this age group to come forward en masse and say "Tax me! Track me! Green card me!" or just keep working for cash and know that they likely won't be among the deportations (even if an estimated 400k will be deported next year).

This is a tricky situation and I don't know what the answer is. But, I know that the answer is not what we're currently doing.

[yermom]

because what do you really accomplish by sending back young, able-bodied people that are basically Americans to a country they don't really belong in? some of them might not even speak Spanish

[okie52]

because what do you really accomplish by sending back young, able-bodied people that are basically Americans to a country they don't really belong in? some of them might not even speak Spanish

Well, they don't belong here. It may not be their fault they are here but it sure isn't this country's fault either...well other than enablers like the current idiot prez and his predecessor. They take jobs, benefits, educational costs....bottom line they are a burden.

[pphilfran]

Flashback to 1986

[okie52]

Yep, a pizz poor decision by Ronnie. Now we want to quadruple that mistake.

[yermom]

Well, they don't belong here. It may not be their fault they are here but it sure isn't this country's fault either...well other than enablers like the current idiot prez and his predecessor. They take jobs, benefits, educational costs....bottom line they are a burden.

young illegals that could be in college or the military aren't likely to be burdens though

[olevetonahill]

young illegals that could be in college or the military aren't likely to be burdens though
Yup bro they all fine upstandin young men

http://streetganglife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/220107mexicans4.jpg

[yermom]

could should probably be would in that sentence

[sappstuf]

Meh, we have tons of foreign workers here on green cards. This just adds to the pool of taxpaying workers.

The question is --- will the fear of being deported cause this age group to come forward en masse and say "Tax me! Track me! Green card me!" or just keep working for cash and know that they likely won't be among the deportations (even if an estimated 400k will be deported next year).

This is a tricky situation and I don't know what the answer is. But, I know that the answer is not what we're currently doing.

The question is, will this cause more illegals to cross our borders and have their children over here since they have further incentive..

We know the answer because this has happened before.

[badger]

The question is, will this cause more illegals to cross our borders and have their children over here since they have further incentive..

We know the answer because this has happened before.

Right now, I think the answer's "no" because looking at statistics, people aren't border jumping as much as they used to be. There just aren't jobs here, for illegals OR legals.

[sappstuf]

Right now, I think the answer's "no" because looking at statistics, people aren't border jumping as much as they used to be. There just aren't jobs here, for illegals OR legals.

More reason for them to tough it out. No reason to self-deport and go back home if you can tough it out and get your citizenship. Then head straight over to the welfare office and pick up the food stamps and WIC.

Easy day.

[olevetonahill]

Right now, I think the answer's "no" because looking at statistics, people aren't border jumping as much as they used to be. There just aren't jobs here, for illegals OR legals.

But there is Food stamps , health care. free housing, But we dont have much of the Police kidnappin folks n Drug cartels loppin off folks heads and leaving the bodies piled up in the street.
Yea I dont see any incentive fer any of em to keep trying to get here.

[badger]

Just curious --- does anyone actually personally know of anyone that can live off of food stamps or WIC? I mean, I've heard tons of Internet stories on people lazing back at home waiting for the government checks to come in, but the people that I personally know of that use them are stuck in extremely difficult circumstances and still can't make ends meet, even with WIC/food stamp assistance. It's usually not just a layoff that does people in, but a combination of layoffs along with medical bills, necessity bills, etc.

[olevetonahill]

Just curious --- does anyone actually personally know of anyone that can live off of food stamps or WIC? I mean, I've heard tons of Internet stories on people lazing back at home waiting for the government checks to come in, but the people that I personally know of that use them are stuck in extremely difficult circumstances and still can't make ends meet, even with WIC/food stamp assistance. It's usually not just a layoff that does people in, but a combination of layoffs along with medical bills, necessity bills, etc.

Between working under the table for cash, FS sec8 housing etc. they do ok. Most of the ones around here dont work tho they just steal the difference

[olevetonahill]

A fast search showed this

Food stamps are issued based on the number of people in your household. A household is defined as individuals who share meals and expenses. Larger households receive more food stamp aid than smaller households. As of 2011, a two person household can receive a maximum allotment of $367 while a three person household can qualify for $526 monthly. Three and four person households can receive a maximum allotment of $526 and $668, respectively.

Read more: How Much Do I Qualify for in Food Stamps? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8062757_much-do-qualify-food-stamps.html#ixzz1xtKabEau

[badger]

As of 2011, a two person household can receive a maximum allotment of $367 while a three person household can qualify for $526 monthly. Three and four person households can receive a maximum allotment of $526 and $668, respectively.

Yeah... I'm not sure anyone can sit at home and do nothing for $300-$700 per month, even if a low cost of living state like Oklahoma, especially when the food stamps aren't actual cash, but for specific food items only (unprepared stuff, if I'm not mistaken).

I've heard of cases where people exchange food stamps for cash, but that's usually for less than half their value.

[olevetonahill]

Yeah... I'm not sure anyone can sit at home and do nothing for $300-$700 per month, even if a low cost of living state like Oklahoma, especially when the food stamps aren't actual cash, but for specific food items only (unprepared stuff, if I'm not mistaken).

I've heard of cases where people exchange food stamps for cash, but that's usually for less than half their value.

Baj if it were JUST the FS id agree, But like I said they steal, they werk under the table for cash they sell the FS for dope and or cash. Most who are on FS also qualify for Low income housing, Utility bill help. etc.

There are a hell of a lot of em around here that have figured out how to scam the system

For the most part FS recipients are good people its the *******s that are screwing it up for everyone else

[SCOUT]

School lunch programs, phone assistance, and free medical care at the emergency room are helpful too.

[yermom]

there is a difference between making them citizens and not deporting them, amirite?

[olevetonahill]

Yup.

[olevetonahill]

there is a difference between making them citizens and not deporting them, amirite?
They then have KIDS here that ARE citizens , making it even tougher to get em gone and easier for em to get all the freebies .

[badger]

free medical care at the emergency room.

Meh, I could take a train to Canada or ride a raft to Cuba and get the same thing.

If this is just about college kids and military members, why is this such an angry eyebrow raiser?

Don't we like that kids attend college to further their education?

Don't we love our military members?

These are younger folks that are making something of themselves, doing something with their lives. Isn't that the type of people we want to become citizens, or at least to work and live here?

[Midtowner]

These are younger folks that are making something of themselves, doing something with their lives. Isn't that the type of people we want to become citizens, or at least to work and live here?

Pretty much. We need more skilled workers and military members. This fulfills a need and is just the right thing to do.

I don't give the President much credit for this as it's an election year. If he had done this last year or before, it'd be a little more laudable.

[SCOUT]

Meh, I could take a train to Canada or ride a raft to Cuba and get the same thing.

If this is just about college kids and military members, why is this such an angry eyebrow raiser?

Don't we like that kids attend college to further their education?

Don't we love our military members?

These are younger folks that are making something of themselves, doing something with their lives. Isn't that the type of people we want to become citizens, or at least to work and live here?
I am not particularly angry about it. I just listed some additional benefits available here in the US. It is a little easier to get across the river than it is to traverse North America or swim to Cuba.

You ask if I like college kids and I will ask if they are replacing US citizens in those class rooms.

Love the military.

I am glad they are making themselves better, I just want to make sure they are not doing it at the expense of the legals.

[soonercruiser]

Pretty much. We need more skilled workers and military members. This fulfills a need and is just the right thing to do. I don't give the President much credit for this as it's an election year. If he had done this last year or before, it'd be a little more laudable.

The right thing to do would be to have gotten together on comprehensive immigrations reform.....before healthcare!
That would have been more "fair" for everyone involved.

But then, that would have taken real leadership skills.
(Not in Obama's bag of tricks.)

[KABOOKIE]

You lie!

[yermom]

They then have KIDS here that ARE citizens , making it even tougher to get em gone and easier for em to get all the freebies .

why is that any worse or different than when a legal POS out there does it?

[sappstuf]

Pretty much. We need more skilled workers and military members. This fulfills a need and is just the right thing to do.

I don't give the President much credit for this as it's an election year. If he had done this last year or before, it'd be a little more laudable.

We have plenty of both. The military doesn't have any problem filling recruiting requirements when the economy is down. It is when the economy is booming that there can be issues.

It is hard for me to believe we need more skilled workers when the workforce is at a 30 year low because so many people have dropped out of it and on top of that we still have 8.2% unemployment.

[Curly Bill]

We have plenty of both. The military doesn't have any problem filling recruiting requirements when the economy is down. It is when the economy is booming that there can be issues.

It is hard for me to believe we need more skilled workers when the workforce is at a 30 year low because so many people have dropped out of it and on top of that we still have 8.2% unemployment.

Would ya believe Obammy feels he needs more voters?

[yermom]

We have plenty of both. The military doesn't have any problem filling recruiting requirements when the economy is down. It is when the economy is booming that there can be issues.

It is hard for me to believe we need more skilled workers when the workforce is at a 30 year low because so many people have dropped out of it and on top of that we still have 8.2% unemployment.

so that's why the pubs like to tank the economy...

seriously though, tech jobs seem to have problems being filled right now. i don't really know anyone that is worth hiring/wants to work that doesn't have a job right now.

[LiveLaughLove]

Here's Obama talking about how Obama doesn't have the authority to do what he just did.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/15/obama-grants-legal-status-young-illegal-immigrants/


For years the administration had said it didn’t have the authority to make such a move, saying it couldn’t decide to stop deporting wide categories of people on its own without approval from Congress.

He was right. The problem is he is now slipping in the polls, and so this blatant (and I believe illegal) pandering is going to happen.

The curtain has been swung wide open for all to see the wizard. He's nothing more than any other every day hack politician that would sell his mother for a vote. Well, in his mother's case that wouldn't have been out of the ordinary. Still, he is no savior, he is no great unifier, he is not the demi-god the press wanted him to be so badly. He's just a Chicago charlatan.

Students, let me lower your student loans. Gays, let me drop DADT and come out four square for marriage to be, eh, whatever. Hispanics, check.

So what special interest group will he attempt to buy off next, legally or illegally? Doesn't matter to him.

My money is on the Jews. He's been slipping big time with them. I see something bright in their future. What sort of executive order can he do for them?

[Curly Bill]

so that's why the pubs like to tank the economy...

seriously though, tech jobs seem to have problems being filled right now. i don't really know anyone that is worth hiring/wants to work that doesn't have a job right now.

We have a lot of young illegals anxious and qualified to fill those tech jobs?

Who knew???

[SanJoaquinSooner]

During the Bush years, the big divide between the donks and the pubs on immigration reform was the citizenship issue. The donks demanded a path to citizenship for those illegally present and the pubs said no - green card only. So they never compromised.

Lately Marco Rubio has been talking about a Dream Act for those you came as kids, but not a path to citizenship. Appears that Obama has co-oped the pub position for the short term.

Don't know why the word "amnesty" is mentioned by the OP. Amnesty didn't come up at all in this announcement.

[sappstuf]

Americans are divided over immigration reform, and President Obama just ensured it will stay that way.

Based on early reports, Obama will bypass Congress and “allow some undocumented students to avoid deportation and receive work authorization.”

The benefits to Obama are obvious:He undercuts Marco Rubio’s efforts to accomplish this, you know, via the democratic legislative process. And Obama also gets to score political points with a growing voting bloc — just in time for his re-election efforts.

As someone who opposed the Arizona law — and has supported Rubio’s DREAM ACT — I am convinced that America needs to have a serious national discussion about immigration reform. Short-circuiting the legislative process deprives us of that organic discussion. It also guarantees there will be no bipartisan consensus. Perhaps Rubio could have persuaded more conservatives to back common sense reforms? The water is now poisoned. Obama — for transparently political purposes — has made sure that conservatives and Republicans will feel slighted and kept out of the loop.

That’s because they have been.

The downside, of course, is that this does nothing to heal this nation, nothing to bring us together, and only serves as a short-term solution for immigrants when a long-term solution — one based on consensus, not political opportunism — was needed.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/15/on-dream-order-obama-short-circuits-consensus-for-short-term-political-gain/


Ouch.

[olevetonahill]

They then have KIDS here that ARE citizens , making it even tougher to get em gone and easier for em to get all the freebies .


why is that any worse or different than when a legal POS out there does it?

Dave, Ya really want to leave that one hanging?

[Midtowner]

We have plenty of both. The military doesn't have any problem filling recruiting requirements when the economy is down. It is when the economy is booming that there can be issues.

It is hard for me to believe we need more skilled workers when the workforce is at a 30 year low because so many people have dropped out of it and on top of that we still have 8.2% unemployment.

We're not at 8.2% everywhere. Oklahoma is at 4.5% and declining, North Dakota, Wyoming, etc., are in desperate need of workers. For whatever reason, there are a lot of unemployed folks who aren't interested in going where the jobs are.

[marfacowboy]

Just garden variety racism from conservatives. Cold-hearted, too. Many of which are also blatant hypocrites, since they depend heavily on Spanish speaking people for low wage labor.
The fact of the matter is Spanish speaking people, their laws, customs, architecture and language were here before anglos. Some of our water and divorce laws in western states are still based on Spanish law. Humans have been crossing the border freely for the millennia. Who can blame them for wanting to escape and find a better life, and how can you blame a kid that was brought here by their parents.
There's not a person on this forum that wouldn't do the same thing.

[olevetonahill]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/091/284/eso_es_racista.gif?1294075992

[marfacowboy]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/091/284/eso_es_racista.gif?1294075992
Like I said, garden variety racism.
I believe this is focused on people who have lived in the US for most of their childhood, were educated in our educational system and are progressing. To be eligible, they either must have a diploma or GED or have served in the US military. Soundslike they're good candidates to become productive, working class taxpayers. Instead of deportation, which is costly and ineffective, this states you can stay under certain conditions, work and be productive.
What's the problem?

[C&CDean]

Like I said, garden variety racism.
I believe this is focused on people who have lived in the US for most of their childhood, were educated in our educational system and are progressing. To be eligible, they either must have a diploma or GED or have served in the US military. Soundslike they're good candidates to become productive, working class taxpayers. Instead of deportation, which is costly and ineffective, this states you can stay under certain conditions, work and be productive.
What's the problem?

Personally, I don't have a problem with this deal.

However, I do have a problem with liberal ****wads bandying about the "garden variety racist" card. It's weak, it's lame, and you need to knock it the **** off. Seriously, I tire with y'all's "racist" schtick.

[Curly Bill]

Personally, I don't have a problem with this deal.

However, I do have a problem with liberal ****wads bandying about the "garden variety racist" card. It's weak, it's lame, and you need to knock it the **** off. Seriously, I tire with y'all's "racist" schtick.

Hell, he negged me for being "disrespectful to the president." LOL

[I Am Right]

The Man who would be King.

[olevetonahill]

Hell, he negged me for being "disrespectful to the president." LOL

But was you racist about it? Or did ya diss the White 1/2 of him?

[Curly Bill]

But was you racist about it? Or did ya diss the White 1/2 of him?

I called him Obammy. That's just my term of endearment for him. ;)

[marfacowboy]

Personally, I don't have a problem with this deal.

However, I do have a problem with liberal ****wads bandying about the "garden variety racist" card. It's weak, it's lame, and you need to knock it the **** off. Seriously, I tire with y'all's "racist" schtick.

Oh, that's brilliant. I can't stand a coward. If you don't like Hispanics or Obama because he's black, just admit it. Don't hide behind all of this other stuff.

[olevetonahill]

I called him Obammy. That's just my term of endearment for him. ;)
Well hell I feel left out then cause Ive called him worse and he aint negged me
What a bastage

[Curly Bill]

This may get good now!

[marfacowboy]

Hell, he negged me for being "disrespectful to the president." LOL

You've negative repped me like a stalker. I just returned the favor.

[olevetonahill]

Oh, that's brilliant. I can't stand a coward.

Dean aint a ****in coward! I once saw him whip a Crippled Blind guys ***,

[Curly Bill]

Well hell I feel left out then cause Ive called him worse and he aint negged me
What a bastage

He must have been feeling empowered or something. Prolly been to one of those 12-step meetings on how to be a real man.

[olevetonahill]

You've negative repped me like a stalker. I just returned the favor.

Bet it hurt bad, dint it.

[olevetonahill]

He must have been feeling empowered or something. Prolly been to one of those 12-step meetings on how to be a real man.

Prolly on Step 3 "How to find yer Balls"

[Curly Bill]

You've negative repped me like a stalker. I just returned the favor.

How's that working out for ya?

[marfacowboy]

Well hell I feel left out then cause Ive called him worse and he aint negged me
What a bastage

You're not worth the time. You're just stupid and pathetic. I can only hope you haven't reproduced.

[Curly Bill]

Prolly on Step 3 "How to find yer Balls"

...or if you're a hand-wringing lib, how to pretend like you ever had any.

[olevetonahill]

You're not worth the time. You're just stupid and pathetic. I can only hope you haven't reproduced.
Aw shucks, Talk more sweetness to me

[olevetonahill]

...or if you're a hand-wringing lib, how to pretend like you ever had any.

Member that Travel agency I had?

[Curly Bill]

Aw shucks, Talk more sweetness to me

I bet he does have a purty mouf.

[Curly Bill]

Member that Travel agency I had?

Yep, I hate it was closed down.

..quite unfairly I might add.

[marfacowboy]

He must have been feeling empowered or something. Prolly been to one of those 12-step meetings on how to be a real man.

Pathetic....

[olevetonahill]

I bet he does have a purty mouf.
Its smoove

[Curly Bill]

Pathetic....

Yeah, but is it disrespectful? ;)

[olevetonahill]

Pathetic....
Whats Pathetic is an Aggie

[olevetonahill]

Yep, I hate it was closed down.

..quite unfairly I might add.

But yer gettin him there, Looks like he had a layover in Mexico city tho,:watermelon:

[Curly Bill]

But yer gettin him there, Looks like he had a layover in Mexico city tho,:watermelon:

Another whack or two would do the trick.

[olevetonahill]

Another whack or two would do the trick.

:cheerful:

[texaspokieokie]

Oh, that's brilliant. I can't stand a coward. If you don't like Hispanics or Obama because he's black, just admit it. Don't hide behind all of this other stuff.I admit to being a racist. I get along well with ones i meet, it's the ones in the news & on tv that i don't like. Like murderers & rapists.
I don't like obama, but it has nothing to do with his race. He's the most arrogant ******* i know of. (oops ended with prep). IMHO he's done nothing to help the country. Much to harm it. Wants (stupidly) to shut down coal industry.If you live north of tx, you don't understand the "illegal" problem.
In Irving for instance, schools are about 70% hispanic.

[olevetonahill]

I admit to being a racist. I get along well with ones i meet, it's the ones in the news & on tv that i don't like. Like murderers & rapists.
I don't like obama, but it has nothing to do with his race. He's the most arrogant ******* i know of. (oops ended with prep). IMHO he's done nothing to help the country. Much to harm it. Wants (stupidly) to shut down coal industry.If you live north of tx, you don't understand the "illegal" problem.
In Irving for instance, schools are about 70% hispanic.


True

[Curly Bill]

Obammy is a narcisistic POS. That may be disrespectful or whatever, but it's also the truth, and anyone with half a brain, and who wishes to make an honest living knows it.

[marfacowboy]

I admit to being a racist. I get along well with ones i meet, it's the ones in the news & on tv that i don't like. Like murderers & rapists.
I don't like obama, but it has nothing to do with his race. He's the most arrogant ******* i know of. (oops ended with prep). IMHO he's done nothing to help the country. Much to harm it. Wants (stupidly) to shut down coal industry.If you live north of tx, you don't understand the "illegal" problem.
In Irving for instance, schools are about 70% hispanic.

I respect an honest post even if I don't agree.

[Curly Bill]

...and I could give a rip what color he is. If he was white and doing the same stuff I'd be saying the same stuff.

[olevetonahill]

Obammy is a narcisistic POS. That may be disrespectful or whatever, but it's also the truth, and anyone with half a brain, and who wishes to make an honest living knows it.
Heh
You said Half a Brain. Is that a racist dig on Obammy?

[Curly Bill]

Heh
You said Half a Brain. Is that a racist dig on Obammy?

No, it's a dig on the stupid fu**s that support him.

[marfacowboy]

Curly Bill and olevetonahill, you're now on the "ignore" list, so don't waste any more of your time with puerile taunts. I won't see them.

[olevetonahill]

Curly Bill and olevetonahill, you're now on the "ignore" list, so don't waste any more of your time with puerile taunts. I won't see them.

Oh Noes, Im the dreaded "Ignore" list
How will I ever survive

[Curly Bill]

Curly Bill and olevetonahill, you're now on the "ignore" list, so don't waste any more of your time with puerile taunts. I won't see them.

LOL...that's some funny stuff right there!

[olevetonahill]

LOL...that's some funny stuff right there!

Y know hes gonna get curious and take us off just so he can see what we saying about him, right?

Hey MC here ya go
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BXCjk-IDqgs/SayC0s5a32I/AAAAAAAAAkM/Gwkd9t3udsQ/s320/flip-the-bird.jpg

[Curly Bill]

Hey Vet, we can talk about him behind his back now. There at first I was afraid he might open up a can of whoop a** on us.

[Curly Bill]

I'd rather he said something childlike about sticks and stones...

[olevetonahill]

Hey Vet, we can talk about him behind his back now. There at first I was afraid he might open up a can of whoop a** on us.
I aint skeered, Unless he turns His pet mesicans loose on us .

[Curly Bill]

I aint skeered, Unless he turns His pet mesicans loose on us .

You saying he keeps messicans as pets? That's worse than slavery! Maybe they'll all go free when Obammy makes em legal.

[olevetonahill]

You saying he keeps messicans as pets? That's worse than slavery! Maybe they'll all go free when Obammy makes em legal.
Or mebe they keep HIM as a pet.

[Curly Bill]

Or mebe they keep HIM as a pet.

Now we're getting to the crux of the matter. I bet he likes it too. ;)

[olevetonahill]

Now we're getting to the crux of the matter. I bet he likes it too. ;)
Ya think they bend him over?

[Curly Bill]

Ya think they bend him over?

I bet they just have to ask politely.

[pphilfran]

Just garden variety racism from conservatives. Cold-hearted, too. Many of which are also blatant hypocrites, since they depend heavily on Spanish speaking people for low wage labor.
The fact of the matter is Spanish speaking people, their laws, customs, architecture and language were here before anglos. Some of our water and divorce laws in western states are still based on Spanish law. Humans have been crossing the border freely for the millennia. Who can blame them for wanting to escape and find a better life, and how can you blame a kid that was brought here by their parents.
There's not a person on this forum that wouldn't do the same thing.

You damn sure are an arrogant sob that paints with a broad brush....

[olevetonahill]

You damn sure are an arrogant sob that paints with a broad brush....
Easy bro. he will have YOU on the Dreaded Iggy List if ya aint keerful

[Curly Bill]

You damn sure are an arrogant sob that paints with a broad brush....

Careful, you'll be put on the dreaded ignore list.

edit..Vet sure does type fast.

[olevetonahill]

I bet they just have to ask politely. Ya Reckon the bend him forards er backerds?

[Curly Bill]

Ya Reckon the bend him forards er backerds?

Yes!

[pphilfran]

And before you start calling me racist and blind and stupid and ugly...

I don't give a damn what we do with the ones currently in the US...round em and ship their azz out or give them a pathway to citizenship...either way it is going to cost a fortune...

To try and round em up would be a nightmare and will cost a fortune...
To try and track millions that are on the path and track them for years...round up the 5-10% that can't pass the background...round up the 5-10% that do not complete the pathway...find the 5-10% that will never sigh up...and this too is a nightmare...

Continue to take the border more seriously...mandate E Verify....fine the snot out of the companies that hire illegals....and we won't have to spend billions a year chasing and tracking a bunch of illegals...

[olevetonahill]

Yes!
So ya think hes
http://www.gumbyworld.com/wp-content/themes/duotive-three/images/home-large-gumby.png

[sappstuf]

And before you start calling me racist and blind and stupid and ugly...

I don't give a damn what we do with the ones currently in the US...round em and ship their azz out or give them a pathway to citizenship...either way it is going to cost a fortune...

To try and round em up would be a nightmare and will cost a fortune...
To try and track millions that are on the path and track them for years...round up the 5-10% that can't pass the background...round up the 5-10% that do not complete the pathway...find the 5-10% that will never sigh up...and this too is a nightmare...

Continue to take the border more seriously...mandate E Verify....fine the snot out of the companies that hire illegals....and we won't have to spend billions a year chasing and tracking a bunch of illegals...

Only a racist would make such a post...

[olevetonahill]

And before you start calling me racist and blind and stupid and ugly...

I don't give a damn what we do with the ones currently in the US...round em and ship their azz out or give them a pathway to citizenship...either way it is going to cost a fortune...

To try and round em up would be a nightmare and will cost a fortune...
To try and track millions that are on the path and track them for years...round up the 5-10% that can't pass the background...round up the 5-10% that do not complete the pathway...find the 5-10% that will never sigh up...and this too is a nightmare...

Continue to take the border more seriously...mandate E Verify....fine the snot out of the companies that hire illegals....and we won't have to spend billions a year chasing and tracking a bunch of illegals...

Well thats just stupid,pathetic and racist.
What else ya got?

[Curly Bill]

So ya think hes
http://www.gumbyworld.com/wp-content/themes/duotive-three/images/home-large-gumby.png

This, light in the loafers, etc, etc...

[pphilfran]

Well thats just stupid,pathetic and racist.
What else ya got?

I drove by a Holiday Express this morning...

[olevetonahill]

I drove by a Holiday Express this morning...
Well hell. That qualifies ya then

[pphilfran]

Well hell. That qualifies ya then

Hey!

[olevetonahill]

Hey!

That puts you 20 points up on Marfar

[pphilfran]

That puts you 20 points up on Marfar

lol

[marfacowboy]

pphilfran, you just joined your buddies...y'all have fun with one another in your pigsty

[pphilfran]

OH NOSE!

[olevetonahill]

OH NOSE!

CB an I tried to warn ya but would you listen? NOOOOOOO ya had to keep it up. Now look at ya . yer in the pigsty with us.

[olevetonahill]

pphilfran, you just joined your buddies...y'all have fun with one another in your pigsty

Why are you so mean to us?

[pphilfran]

CB an I tried to warn ya but would you listen? NOOOOOOO ya had to keep it up. Now look at ya . yer in the pigsty with us.

Dats because I am pig headed...

Oink...Snort...

[yermom]

I admit to being a racist. I get along well with ones i meet, it's the ones in the news & on tv that i don't like. Like murderers & rapists.
I don't like obama, but it has nothing to do with his race. He's the most arrogant ******* i know of. (oops ended with prep). IMHO he's done nothing to help the country. Much to harm it. Wants (stupidly) to shut down coal industry.If you live north of tx, you don't understand the "illegal" problem.
In Irving for instance, schools are about 70% hispanic.

are we talking about illegals or hispanics? i wonder why the term "racist" gets thrown around. start talking about "messicans" and things get cloudy.


And before you start calling me racist and blind and stupid and ugly...

I don't give a damn what we do with the ones currently in the US...round em and ship their azz out or give them a pathway to citizenship...either way it is going to cost a fortune...

To try and round em up would be a nightmare and will cost a fortune...
To try and track millions that are on the path and track them for years...round up the 5-10% that can't pass the background...round up the 5-10% that do not complete the pathway...find the 5-10% that will never sigh up...and this too is a nightmare...

Continue to take the border more seriously...mandate E Verify....fine the snot out of the companies that hire illegals....and we won't have to spend billions a year chasing and tracking a bunch of illegals...

no one really cares about this "problem" in Washington, on either side, or they would bust corporations that are hiring illegals. fine/shut down places that hired illegals and they aren't going to be as much of an issue. sure there are domestics and lawn mowers, but you are never going to catch all of them. i'm talking about the companies that make millions off of cheap labor.

[LiveLaughLove]

Oh, that's brilliant. I can't stand a coward. If you don't like Hispanics or Obama because he's black, just admit it. Don't hide behind all of this other stuff.

The old, "when did you quit beating your wife" theory.

Is it possible, just possible, that we disagree with his politics and not his race? Is it even possible for you to comprehend?

Is it possible that I disagree with this illegal use of executive power without congressional law in deciding our immigration laws, without it being racist? Is it just possible?

Is it possible that we want people of every color to obey our immigration laws regardless of who they are without it being racist?

If I like Alan West but dislike Obama, which part of me is the racist? How much of me is racist?

If I dislike the Kennedy's, but I like Thomas Sowell, am I anti-catholic? How much of me is anti-catholic?

How about if I like Clarence Thomas, but really dislike Sonia Sotomayor, am I more a racist toward hispanics? Throw in disliking Ruth B. Ginsburg, now am I a racist and anti-semite? How much?

What if I can't stand Nancy Pelosi, but I like Marco Rubio? Or better yet what if you like Nancy Pelosi, but dislike Marco Rubio, are you now the racist? How much of you is racist?

Let me answer that one for Chris, you're an idiot ideologue that can't believe people can disagree with your politics, therefor they must have something inherently wrong with them. Grow up.

[sappstuf]

pphilfran, you just joined your buddies...y'all have fun with one another in your pigsty

I've been posting with phil for 5-6 years on various boards. I have never seen anyone put him on ignore.

Congratulations for setting a new bar of intolerance...

[sappstuf]

The old, "when did you quit beating your wife" theory.

Is it possible, just possible, that we disagree with his politics and not his race? Is it even possible for you to comprehend?

Is it possible that I disagree with this illegal use of executive power without congressional law in deciding our immigration laws, without it being racist? Is it just possible?

Is it possible that we want people of every color to obey our immigration laws regardless of who they are without it being racist?

If I like Alan West but dislike Obama, which part of me is the racist? How much of me is racist?

If I dislike the Kennedy's, but I like Thomas Sowell, am I anti-catholic? How much of me is anti-catholic?

How about if I like Clarence Thomas, but really dislike Sonia Sotomayor, am I more a racist toward hispanics? Throw in disliking Ruth B. Ginsburg, now am I a racist and anti-semite? How much?

What if I can't stand Nancy Pelosi, but I like Marco Rubio? Or better yet what if you like Nancy Pelosi, but dislike Marco Rubio, are you now the racist? How much of you is racist?

Let me answer that one for Chris, you're an idiot ideologue that can't believe people can disagree with your politics, therefor they must have something inherently wrong with them. Grow up.

You know the saying.. Conservatives think Liberals are wrong. Liberals think Conservatives are EVIL!

[Turd_Ferguson]

The old, "when did you quit beating your wife" theory.

Is it possible, just possible, that we disagree with his politics and not his race? Is it even possible for you to comprehend?

Is it possible that I disagree with this illegal use of executive power without congressional law in deciding our immigration laws, without it being racist? Is it just possible?

Is it possible that we want people of every color to obey our immigration laws regardless of who they are without it being racist?

If I like Alan West but dislike Obama, which part of me is the racist? How much of me is racist?

If I dislike the Kennedy's, but I like Thomas Sowell, am I anti-catholic? How much of me is anti-catholic?

How about if I like Clarence Thomas, but really dislike Sonia Sotomayor, am I more a racist toward hispanics? Throw in disliking Ruth B. Ginsburg, now am I a racist and anti-semite? How much?

What if I can't stand Nancy Pelosi, but I like Marco Rubio? Or better yet what if you like Nancy Pelosi, but dislike Marco Rubio, are you now the racist? How much of you is racist?

Let me answer that one for Chris, you're an idiot ideologue that can't believe people can disagree with your politics, therefor they must have something inherently wrong with them. Grow up.Werd to yer Momma...

[Turd_Ferguson]

I've been posting with phil for 5-6 years on various boards. I have never seen anyone put him on ignore.

Congratulations for setting a new bar of ignorance...fixed

[LiveLaughLove]

no one really cares about this "problem" in Washington, on either side, or they would bust corporations that are hiring illegals. fine/shut down places that hired illegals and they aren't going to be as much of an issue. sure there are domestics and lawn mowers, but you are never going to catch all of them. i'm talking about the companies that make millions off of cheap labor.

I don't disagree with this, but an illegal circumvention of law by executive fiat for nothing more than obviously blatant political pandering is going to do nothing but exacerbate the problem.

Obama was seen as some sort of unifier when he first took office (not by me mind you), but he has done nothing but divide in an attempt to conquer for his own personal gain since he won the first election.

His "I won, get over it." to McCain was a harbinger of things to come from him. Nothing unifying in that, or in this.

He sees the country as little racial, economic, and political fiefdoms to divide and conquer. He has never seen this country as one whole. You can't unify what you can't see.

He panders to each little special interest group at the cost of any chance of unity for the country as a whole, all for the sake of his own power.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Since we now have about an unemployment rate of 8.2% unwilling to work, maybe having a larger pool of eager labor will encourage more of those unemployed to start their own businesses and utilize this work-permited labor.

[yermom]

Obama half-assed the health care reform, didn't undo any of the Patriot Act, hired a bunch of goons from Goldman Sachs, hasn't gotten us out of any wars and left Guantanamo open. i'm not really that much of a fan.

this particular thing is barely a blip. really all it seems in my eyes is explaining the status quo and acknowledging that it's a waste of time and resources to try and deport this particular demographic

[okie52]

I've been posting with phil for 5-6 years on various boards. I have never seen anyone put him on ignore.

Congratulations for setting a new bar of intolerance...

PPhil's made trouble wherever he goes. Thank goodness someone that cares about the rights of people here illegally called him out.

[okie52]

Since we now have about an unemployment rate of 8.2% unwilling to work, maybe having a larger pool of eager labor will encourage more of those unemployed to start their own businesses and utilize this work-permited labor.

Quit trying to get your whole family over here San Joaquin.

[pphilfran]

PPhil's made trouble wherever he goes. Thank goodness someone that cares about the rights of people here illegally called him out.

Just wait...I'll get back at all of you slimeballs...

[okie52]

Just wait...I'll get back at all of you slimeballs...

Don't drag me into your pig sty.

[olevetonahill]

Don't drag me into your pig sty.

Its a Nice Pig sty you visit all the time . Even Yermom drops by every now an then.

[okie52]

Its a Nice Pig sty you visit all the time . Even Yermom drops by every now an then.

Heheh.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Quit trying to get your whole family over here San Joaquin.

Somebody's got to do the weekend and evening shifts.

[olevetonahill]

Somebody's got to do the weekend and evening shifts.
jaun,Ya really got THAT much lettuce to pick?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

jaun,Ya really got THAT much lettuce to pick?

We're finishing up the end of the cherry harvest. Lots of workers have moved on to Oregon and Washington now, for their harvests.

But I told you a million times Vet, the lettuce is in Salinas Valley, not San Joaquin. It gets too hot here for lettuce.

[olevetonahill]

We're finishing up the end of the cherry harvest. Lots of workers have moved on to Oregon and Washington now, for their harvests.

But I told you a million times Vet, the lettuce is in Salinas Valley, not San Joaquin. It gets too hot here for lettuce.

That why they wont hire Me to harvest any of that ****. I dont know lettuce from cucumbers
Even tho I have harvested my share of cherries

[pphilfran]

That why they wont hire Me to harvest any of that ****. I dont know lettuce from cucumbers
Even tho I have harvested my share of cherries

lol

[SanJoaquinSooner]

What's innersting is how Romney's response will evolve.

[olevetonahill]

What's innersting is how Romney's response will evolve.

Whats to evolve>?

Obammy is sellin out worse than clinton did the Lincoln bedroom.

Hes pissed off enough of those starry eyed idiots from his 1st campaign that hes tryin to sway new idiots from the Latinos and the gheys

[cleller]

I don't know if this deal is the end of the world or not. I do know that there are good reasons to fear some of the illegals that are here. This deal purports to weed out the bad element, but we all know how some slip thru.

Has anyone spent a few hours around MS-13 members? It will open your eyes, and unnerve you, fast. They are unlike anyone you've ever experienced.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Whats to evolve>?

Obammy is sellin out worse than clinton did the Lincoln bedroom.

Hes pissed off enough of those starry eyed idiots from his 1st campaign that hes tryin to sway new idiots from the Latinos and the gheys

I said Romney. Suppose Romney gets elected. Would he take those Dreamers who came forward and signed up with Obama and reverse the executive order and deport them?[/

[olevetonahill]

I said Romney. Suppose Romney gets elected. Would he take those Dreamers who came forward and signed up with Obama and reverse the executive order and deport them?[/

Are they that stupid to sign up before the election? Besides You an I both know this nothing more than an election move. pandering for the Latino vote

I beleive that IF any did sign up in good faith that Romney would honor it, Thats Just me tho.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Rubio thinking about taking ball and bat home.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/16/marco-rubio-dream-act_n_1602582.html

[sappstuf]

PPhil's made trouble wherever he goes. Thank goodness someone that cares about the rights of people here illegally called him out.

That is true... You have to be a heartless SOB to build a catapult.

[soonercruiser]

Hey!
Gone for only one day, and now I hear Pork is on the menu!
:cheerful:

[jkjsooner]

First off, I think this is clearly pandering to a voting bloc.

That being said, does anyone think that Romney has radically different views on immigration? Most large business owners (not to mention farmers, etc.) are strongly in favor of illegal immigration. The last thing they want is to deport this cheap workforce or, worse yet, hold employers accountable.

The only difference I see is that some may favor the current system - keeping them technically illegal but doing little to remove them - as that reduces the bargaining position of the immigrant.

Republicans are good at talking to their base on this issue but don't fool yourself in believing that they want to remove millions of cheap workers.

[olevetonahill]

First off, I think this is clearly pandering to a voting bloc.

That being said, does anyone think that Romney has radically different views on immigration? Most large business owners (not to mention farmers, etc.) are strongly in favor of illegal immigration. The last thing they want is to deport this cheap workforce or, worse yet, hold employers accountable.

The only difference I see is that some may favor the current system - keeping them technically illegal but doing little to remove them - as that reduces the bargaining position of the immigrant.

Republicans are good at talking to their base on this issue but don't fool yourself in believing that they want to remove millions of cheap workers.

Where do you get the notion that the Illegals are "Cheap Labor"
in my experience they arnt so cheap as they are WILLING to work.
I raise hell about all this But I dont have a prob with those willing to give an honest day work for an honest day pay.

Too many Americans are to ****in lazy and or spoiled to ever get their asses out in a field and Pick cotton, or beans or any thing else.

In Heavener for example there is a Chicken processing plant. ****ty work conditions, nasty asses work. Who do you think happily do those jobs? you got it . The Mexicans cause the tweakers and other *******s around think that work is beneath them so they live off welfare and thieving .

[sappstuf]

Senior White House adviser David Plouffe insisted Sunday that President Obama’s decision to defer deportation of certain illegal immigrants who came to the country as children was "fully within" the president's authority and not made with the 2012 election in mind.

“This is not a political move. This builds on a lot of steps that we have already taken,” Plouffe said on the CNN program “State of the Union.”

Ah yes, the ol' "These aren't the droids you're looking for" defense...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Schieffer: Would you repeal this?

Romney: Well, it would be overtaken by events if you will, by virtue of my putting in place a long-term solution, with legislation which creates law that relates to these individuals such that they know what their setting is going to be, not just for the term of a President but on a permanent basis.


Well, I'm glad Romney cleared this up.

[jkjsooner]

Where do you get the notion that the Illegals are "Cheap Labor"
in my experience they arnt so cheap as they are WILLING to work.
I raise hell about all this But I dont have a prob with those willing to give an honest day work for an honest day pay.

Too many Americans are to ****in lazy and or spoiled to ever get their asses out in a field and Pick cotton, or beans or any thing else.

In Heavener for example there is a Chicken processing plant. ****ty work conditions, nasty asses work. Who do you think happily do those jobs? you got it . The Mexicans cause the tweakers and other *******s around think that work is beneath them so they live off welfare and thieving .

Ever heard of supply and demand? Whether you think their labor is cheap or not, it is cheaper than if the supply did not exist.

Not to mention that your answer pretty much makes my point. Republicans want the labor force but gives lip service to those who to get rid of them.

BTW, people haven't picked cotton in about 40 years. I've chopped cotton plenty in my youth but even then picking cotton was something our parents did.

[jkjsooner]

Well, I'm glad Romney cleared this up.

I know. When I heard that this morning I laughed. Romney pretty much gave a non-answer. He wants a "comprehensive solution" but refuses to define what it is and refuses to state what he would do WHEN that comprehensive solution becomes unattainable.

[soonercoop1]

Yep, a pizz poor decision by Ronnie. Now we want to quadruple that mistake.

and liberal progressives wonder why compromise is impossible...

[jkjsooner]

and liberal progressives wonder why compromise is impossible...

I don't think the Republicans could come up with a compromise among themselves.

[Ton Loc]

Thread title versus reality of situation are two different things. I'm shocked.

Just when the righty, mexican fearing people thought they had something concrete too. Good times.

Keep defending that imaginary line in the sand fellas. With your outrage on the forums, but no real action, I'm sure you'll get the result you're looking for.

[Midtowner]

...or if you're a hand-wringing lib, how to pretend like you ever had any.

To be fair, this thread started out with a bunch of anti-Obamaites hand wringing about the President's move. I'm not going to trot out the racist card right off the bat. Some of y'all might actually be extremely concerned with the rule of law. Others might be xenophobes, some may be racists, certainly not all. Some may think that this actually does the cause of real immigration reform harm because it takes some of the pressure off.

The fact is that these sorts of immigrants are the folks we want. If they are U.S. military veterans or college graduates, they are much more likely to start businesses, be good workers and create jobs. Anecdotally, I represent quite a few legal immigrants (I don't do immigration law). The folks I represent come over from another country not speaking a word of English. Fast forward 20 years and to the man, they have successful businesses, children with college degrees, etc. Immigrants seem to have a better grasp of the American dream than Americans do in many cases. We need these folks and we should be happy to be on the receiving end of another country's brain drain.

[okie52]

Thread title versus reality of situation are two different things. I'm shocked.

Just when the righty, mexican fearing people thought they had something concrete too. Good times.

Keep defending that imaginary line in the sand fellas. With your outrage on the forums, but no real action, I'm sure you'll get the result you're looking for.

Romney's response was weak to obama's pathetic amnesty for illegals. Pandering for imaginary hispanic votes is a real failed political ploy on Romneys part. He should be telling the illegal supporters to FO.

Righty, mexican fearing.....well he11, you forgot to throw in the racist righty hating Obama because he is black. Certainly obama's policies are above reproach. Of course lefty loving illegal supporters have the high ground in illegal immigration. What could possibly be wrong with 12,000,000 people being in this country illegally?

Whether Romney satisfies righties on illegal immigration remains to be seen but it is hard to believe he could ever sink as low as the anointed one.

[okie52]

To be fair, this thread started out with a bunch of anti-Obamaites hand wringing about the President's move. I'm not going to trot out the racist card right off the bat. Some of y'all might actually be extremely concerned with the rule of law. Others might be xenophobes, some may be racists, certainly not all. Some may think that this actually does the cause of real immigration reform harm because it takes some of the pressure off.

The fact is that these sorts of immigrants are the folks we want. If they are U.S. military veterans or college graduates, they are much more likely to start businesses, be good workers and create jobs. Anecdotally, I represent quite a few legal immigrants (I don't do immigration law). The folks I represent come over from another country not speaking a word of English. Fast forward 20 years and to the man, they have successful businesses, children with college degrees, etc. Immigrants seem to have a better grasp of the American dream than Americans do in many cases. We need these folks and we should be happy to be on the receiving end of another country's brain drain.

Yeah, I'm sure every amnesty stops the flow of illegals into this country. Can't see why any illegal would ever come here when we make it so hard on them.

[Midtowner]

Yeah, I'm sure every amnesty stops the flow of illegals into this country. Can't see why any illegal would ever come here when we make it so hard on them.

It should be a lot tougher. There should be zero benefits to illegals. I'm not sure why the hell there are, but it probably has something to do with the Chamber of Commerce Republicans being complicit with the Democrats who haven't ever seen an entitlement they didn't like.

That said, nothing is going to change with regard to making it hard on illegals. Not even Oklahoma, which is controlled by Chamber of Commerce Republicans is really doing much about illegal immigration. So for the meantime, we have this issue of folks who have grown up ostensibly American and are being denied opportunities through no fault of their own. Sometimes, respect for the law has to be tempered with compassion. It's easy to sit there, secure in the knowledge that you will never have to deal with these issues due to your birth. Does your empathy for folks who grow up here, only speak English, who want to go to U.S. schools to become productive Americans can't because of something their parents did? Laws are supposed to serve justice. They shouldn't be used to punish folks who have no illegal intent.

What.. do you force the 19 year old kid to return to Mexico, someplace he's probably never been because of who his parents are and what they did? I don't think that really works.

[olevetonahill]

I dont think a one of us really care so much about the LAW that you lefties seem to wan to yell/
We care more about the Dude saying we doing this fer the Country when Hes really just doin it fer VOTES

[okie52]

It should be a lot tougher. There should be zero benefits to illegals. I'm not sure why the hell there are, but it probably has something to do with the Chamber of Commerce Republicans being complicit with the Democrats who haven't ever seen an entitlement they didn't like.

That said, nothing is going to change with regard to making it hard on illegals. Not even Oklahoma, which is controlled by Chamber of Commerce Republicans is really doing much about illegal immigration. So for the meantime, we have this issue of folks who have grown up ostensibly American and are being denied opportunities through no fault of their own. Sometimes, respect for the law has to be tempered with compassion. It's easy to sit there, secure in the knowledge that you will never have to deal with these issues due to your birth. Does your empathy for folks who grow up here, only speak English, who want to go to U.S. schools to become productive Americans can't because of something their parents did? Laws are supposed to serve justice. They shouldn't be used to punish folks who have no illegal intent.

What.. do you force the 19 year old kid to return to Mexico, someplace he's probably never been because of who his parents are and what they did? I don't think that really works.

You are right about the chamber of commerce...nationally and locally although they are hardly just republicans supporting illegals. Just shows that a lot of people will sell the country out for a buck.

Yes I force a 19 year old back to Mexico and his parents too....and when other would be illegals hear about it they will be much less likely to cross the border. It really isn't that hard.

[sappstuf]

It should be a lot tougher. There should be zero benefits to illegals. I'm not sure why the hell there are, but it probably has something to do with the Chamber of Commerce Republicans being complicit with the Democrats who haven't ever seen an entitlement they didn't like.

That said, nothing is going to change with regard to making it hard on illegals. Not even Oklahoma, which is controlled by Chamber of Commerce Republicans is really doing much about illegal immigration. So for the meantime, we have this issue of folks who have grown up ostensibly American and are being denied opportunities through no fault of their own. Sometimes, respect for the law has to be tempered with compassion. It's easy to sit there, secure in the knowledge that you will never have to deal with these issues due to your birth. Does your empathy for folks who grow up here, only speak English, who want to go to U.S. schools to become productive Americans can't because of something their parents did? Laws are supposed to serve justice. They shouldn't be used to punish folks who have no illegal intent.

What.. do you force the 19 year old kid to return to Mexico, someplace he's probably never been because of who his parents are and what they did? I don't think that really works.

Nah. It probably had a lot to do with this decision.


1982—In a 5-4 ruling in Plyler v. Doe, Justice Brennan’s majority opinion holds that the Equal Protection Clause requires Texas to provide a free public education to children who are illegal aliens since it provides such education to children who are citizens or legal aliens. In dissent, Chief Justice Burger states:

“The Court makes no attempt to disguise that it is acting to make up for Congress’ lack of ‘effective leadership’ in dealing with the serious national problems caused by the influx of uncountable millions of illegal aliens across our borders. The failure of enforcement of the immigration laws over more than a decade and the inherent difficulty and expense of sealing our vast borders have combined to create a grave socioeconomic dilemma. It is a dilemma that has not yet even been fully assessed, let alone addressed. However, it is not the function of the Judiciary to provide ‘effective leadership’ simply because the political branches of government fail to do so.”

Chief Justice Burger's dissent is just as true today as it was when he said it back in 1982.

[okie52]

Nah. It probably had a lot to do with this decision.



Chief Justice Burger's dissent is just as true today as it was when he said it back in 1982.

Kudos to burger.

[Midtowner]

I dont think a one of us really care so much about the LAW that you lefties seem to wan to yell/
We care more about the Dude saying we doing this fer the Country when Hes really just doin it fer VOTES

I wish politicians did things for votes more often... you know, like regulating the financial industry. They'd have my vote.

[Midtowner]

Nah. It probably had a lot to do with this decision.


It's dictum, just one guy's opinion, but the law which remained was good and necessary. Imagine the state of affairs we'd have with 12MM illegals who couldn't speak the language or read? In some parts of the country, we'd probably be facing serious civil unrest.

[sappstuf]

It's dictum, just one guy's opinion, but the law which remained was good and necessary. Imagine the state of affairs we'd have with 12MM illegals who couldn't speak the language or read? In some parts of the country, we'd probably be facing serious civil unrest.

Or possibly we wouldn't have 12MM illegals here.. Free education is just another benefit to cross the border for.

[Midtowner]

Or possibly we wouldn't have 12MM illegals here.. Free education is just another benefit to cross the border for.

Again, I'll gladly take on students who want to be educated as opposed to many American ne'er do wells.

[jkjsooner]

Yeah, I'm sure every amnesty stops the flow of illegals into this country. Can't see why any illegal would ever come here when we make it so hard on them.

Some have had plans for amnesty in addition to strong regulations on employers. (The only enforcement that has a chance to be effective is on employer regulation.) The enforcement would be the what was missing in the previous amnesty.

The problem is that too many conservatives are determined to punish the immigrants rather than come up with a real solution. That and the fact that too many other conservatives don't want any part in employer enforcement or really any solution at all.

If we're going to come up with a real solution we have to drop some of our philosophical views and come up with a pragmatic solutions - one that really has a chance to be effective.

[sappstuf]

Again, I'll gladly take on students who want to be educated as opposed to many American ne'er do wells.

You don't know if those illegal students that are 2 years old when they are brought over are any more or less motivated than American students...

[okie52]

Some have had plans for amnesty in addition to strong regulations on employers. (The only enforcement that has a chance to be effective is on employer regulation.) The enforcement would be the what was missing in the previous amnesty.

The problem is that too many conservatives are determined to punish the immigrants rather than come up with a real solution. That and the fact that too many other conservatives don't want any part in employer enforcement or really any solution at all.

If we're going to come up with a real solution we have to drop some of our philosophical views and come up with a pragmatic solutions - one that really has a chance to be effective.

The president fought an AZ law that had been on the books since 2007 that punished employers for hiring illegals and required they use everify. This law was signed by none other than Obama's secretary of homeland security, Janet Napolitano. Fortunately the SC shot Obama down and the law remains in force but this exemplifies the extremes that Obama will use to gain voters even when it encourages and/or supports illegal immigration.

Certainly there are Republicans, Democrats and businesses that want to continue to use cheap, ignorant labor at the expense of the American taxpayers. The US, Oklahoma and OKC chambers of commerce are disgusting examples of this.

I'm am all for pragmatism. Punishing sanctuary cities by cutting off federal funds. Punishing Presidents like Obama and Bush by not electing/reelecting them when they don't secure the borders or support illegal immigration policies. Eliminating the jobs, educational, healthcare and other benefits illegals are currently receiving. Somehow I think there would be a whole lot less illegals in this country if this policy was pursued. You don't even have to talk about mass deportations, most of them will leave when they have less opportunity here than in Mexico.

[Midtowner]

You don't know if those illegal students that are 2 years old when they are brought over are any more or less motivated than American students...

It's a good thing we're not talking about 2-year olds with this executive order then.

[okie52]

Again, I'll gladly take on students who want to be educated as opposed to many American ne'er do wells.

Is that the option? We can trade our ne'er do wells for some other country's ambitious citizens? Short of that I would think there would be billions of people in the world that would like to take advantage of American taxpayers paying for their education.

[badger]

I am not particularly angry about it. I just listed some additional benefits available here in the US. It is a little easier to get across the river than it is to traverse North America or swim to Cuba.

You ask if I like college kids and I will ask if they are replacing US citizens in those class rooms.

Love the military.

I am glad they are making themselves better, I just want to make sure they are not doing it at the expense of the legals.

I don't think there's ever been any shortage of foreign exchange students in our classrooms here, both at the college level and the K-12 level. Even in my tiny little rural Wisconsin school, we had exchange students in high school. And they were fun. They wanted to join clubs, teams, and get this --- they insisted on speaking English even if you tried to talk to them in their native language because one of their goals in studying in the U.S. was mastery of the English language. I remember being in classes and such with foreign students at OU. They were all awesome, no exceptions, from my experience. I would read over the papers of a student from Japan in our dorm before she turned them in because she was still trying to master English and we all know how b!tchy professors can be about term/research papers. Durr, incorrect citation format, durrrrr :P

So, I don't think foreign-born students are replacing US citizens in those classrooms. In fact, lately colleges seem to love getting a mix of students from in-state and outside into their universities. Not just in the name of diversity, but in the name of collecting outta state tuition, hehe. Gotta make budget somehow, and the state coffers aren't coughing up the dough! :D

[okie52]

It's dictum, just one guy's opinion, but the law which remained was good and necessary. Imagine the state of affairs we'd have with 12MM illegals who couldn't speak the language or read? In some parts of the country, we'd probably be facing serious civil unrest.

I wish it would come to civil unrest. Something might actually be done about 12,000,000 invaders.

[sappstuf]

It's a good thing we're not talking about 2-year olds with this executive order then.

Get your facts straight.. It was not an executive order.

Aren't we talking about people who were brought over illegally when they were younger?

[sappstuf]

I wish it would come to civil unrest. Something might actually be done about 12,000,000 invaders.

Don't you remember all the hispanic youths that put a Mexican flag over an upside down American flag?

Just give them a chance Okie to contribute to American society, you heartless bast***! :)

http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/montebellb.jpg

[okie52]

Don't you remember all the hispanic youths that put a Mexican flag over an upside down American flag?

Just give them a chance Okie to contribute to American society, you heartless bast***! :)

http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/montebellb.jpg


Cinco de Mayo in Liberal, Kansas in 2006 will always be memorable to me. Hundreds of illegals demanding their rights along main street with the police just watching and doing nothing. One of the pathetic, inept examples of immigration I had ever seen...up to that point. Now, its commonplace.

[Ton Loc]

I wish it would come to civil unrest. Something might actually be done about 12,000,000 invaders.

Two birds - one stone.

It will never come to this. We're all still way too comfortable in our AC, Internet, Big Screen TV homes to be bothered with that. The best effort made is usually a post on an internet forum where you get half the facts wrong and lead to a 10+ page discussion that completely misses the point of the linked article. Man, its a great time to be "poor."

No wonder they keep coming from the border.

[okie52]

Two birds - one stone.

It will never come to this. We're all still way too comfortable in our AC, Internet, Big Screen TV homes to be bothered with that. The best effort made is usually a post on an internet forum where you get half the facts wrong and lead to a 10+ page discussion that completely misses the point of the linked article. Man, its a great time to be "poor."

No wonder they keep coming from the border.

He11, there is hardly a thread that doesn't morph if it lasts longer than a few pages although this has at least stayed on illegal immigration to some degree.

Maybe you recognize that this last amnesty effort on Obama's part really didn't change his illegal immigration support at all since he instructed ICE to only deport criminals here illegally over a year ago.

If you have other insights beyond the Prez just giving 800,000 illegals at least a 2 year amnesty then jump on out there. Perhaps you think we "owe" them...I always find that one particularly enlightening.

[sappstuf]

He11, there is hardly a thread that doesn't morph if it lasts longer than a few pages although this has at least stayed on illegal immigration to some degree.

Maybe you recognize that this last amnesty effort on Obama's part really didn't change his illegal immigration support at all since he instructed ICE to only deport criminals here illegally over a year ago.

If you have other insights beyond the Prez just giving 800,000 illegals at least a 2 year amnesty then jump on out there. Perhaps you think we "owe" them...I always find that one particularly
enlightening.

Okie,

the NYTimes actually discussed why that was a failure..

Apparently only 500 illegals have been spared deportation.. I guess they are having trouble finding illegals who do not pose a security risk... Who knew?



Bleak figures reported early this month by the Department of Homeland Security showed that a yearlong program designed to shift enforcement away from illegal immigrants who pose no security risk was not producing results, with only about 500 young students nationwide spared from deportation.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/us/politics/deportation-policy-change-came-after-protests.html?pagewanted=all

[soonercruiser]

And.....
Back to the original proposition!

Why did Obama wait until before the election?
He had 2 years of executive and Congressional control to make something happen in the first part of his term if it is sop damn important.
But NOOOOOOO! Blame the Repugs! Yah. Them dang Repugs would have make him compromise somewhere.....and a dictator doesn't compromise!

Hypocrisy!


http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/notfacism.jpg

[okie52]

Okie,

the NYTimes actually discussed why that was a failure..

Apparently only 500 illegals have been spared deportation.. I guess they are having trouble finding illegals who do not pose a security risk... Who knew?






http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/us/politics/deportation-policy-change-came-after-protests.html?pagewanted=all

Sapp,

LOL. That is actually great news.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Back door amnesty pure and simple. It needs to be stopped and we need to be hard line about border insurgents. You don't have papers or permission to be in country, you get gone, period!

[yermom]

and what secret police force is going to do it? who is going to pay for it?

the police state that would be created would be much worse than the status quo

[okie52]

and what secret police force is going to do it? who is going to pay for it?

the police state that would be created would be much worse than the status quo

Lol- Border security=police state? Secret police? No secret at all. ICE and troops, if necessary. Guard our own borders instead of Korea or Germany or Japan. Probably result in a huge cost savings.

Of course land mines would be very cost effective.

[olevetonahill]

and what secret police force is going to do it? who is going to pay for it?

the police state that would be created would be much worse than the status quo

beef up Border security some, Let The Local PoPos arrest em and turn em over to ICE send em home
Easy

[pphilfran]

Papers, please.

[okie52]

Zig zags?

[olevetonahill]

Zig zags?

make sure ya keep Loose Tobacky with ya , Then it aint Paraphernalia :culpability:

[okie52]

make sure ya keep Loose Tobacky with ya , Then it aint Paraphernalia :culpability:

Heh. I'm sure wacky tobacky might not help the situation.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

beef up Border security some, Let The Local PoPos arrest em and turn em over to ICE send em home
Easy

Not that easy.

We tried it in Tulsa when TCSO got approved to process ICE requests. ICE A) won't play ball because B) they don't have the manpower and C) don't give a rip.

A lot of crap has to change to make the deportation process not just better, but friggin' functional. And the typical jurisdictional boners cops have come into play along with state and local politics, too. Sadly, the only real "on the street" solution I can think of is exactly the opposite thing that we'd want to happen, and that's a massive federal police force, completely outside of political influence and control, that can and will crack down on offenders regardless of jurisdiction.

AKA, secret police.

I don't want that, even if it means Pablo gets a free ride to Juarez.

[diverdog]

Where do you get the notion that the Illegals are "Cheap Labor"
in my experience they arnt so cheap as they are WILLING to work.
I raise hell about all this But I dont have a prob with those willing to give an honest day work for an honest day pay.

Too many Americans are to ****in lazy and or spoiled to ever get their asses out in a field and Pick cotton, or beans or any thing else.

In Heavener for example there is a Chicken processing plant. ****ty work conditions, nasty asses work. Who do you think happily do those jobs? you got it . The Mexicans cause the tweakers and other *******s around think that work is beneath them so they live off welfare and thieving .

Gulp....I actually agree with Olevet.

[okie52]

Not that easy.

We tried it in Tulsa when TCSO got approved to process ICE requests. ICE A) won't play ball because B) they don't have the manpower and C) don't give a rip.

A lot of crap has to change to make the deportation process not just better, but friggin' functional. And the typical jurisdictional boners cops have come into play along with state and local politics, too. Sadly, the only real "on the street" solution I can think of is exactly the opposite thing that we'd want to happen, and that's a massive federal police force, completely outside of political influence and control, that can and will crack down on offenders regardless of jurisdiction.

AKA, secret police.

I don't want that, even if it means Pablo gets a free ride to Juarez.

Our system is retarded but you sure don't have to have secret police unless you already believe that's what ICE is now. Little things like schools, hospitals, municipal and state agencies being able to share information and report illegals. Beefing up the manpower for ICE and mandating that they work with local authorities.

But that's for those that are already here and has little to do with border security. Taking away jobs and benefits, defunding sanctuary cities and punishing employers that hire illegals will get many to leave on their own.

No police state needed to get rid of Pablo...just a little common sense.

[olevetonahill]

Not that easy.

We tried it in Tulsa when TCSO got approved to process ICE requests. ICE A) won't play ball because B) they don't have the manpower and C) don't give a rip.

A lot of crap has to change to make the deportation process not just better, but friggin' functional. And the typical jurisdictional boners cops have come into play along with state and local politics, too. Sadly, the only real "on the street" solution I can think of is exactly the opposite thing that we'd want to happen, and that's a massive federal police force, completely outside of political influence and control, that can and will crack down on offenders regardless of jurisdiction.

AKA, secret police.

I don't want that, even if it means Pablo gets a free ride to Juarez.

IF they would Let em and everyone work together it would be that easy.

As things stand now It will never happen cause theres too much political power at play with this.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Our system is retarded but you sure don't have to have secret police unless you already believe that's what ICE is now. Little things like schools, hospitals, municipal and state agencies being able to share information and report illegals. Beefing up the manpower for ICE and mandating that they work with local authorities.

But that's for those that are already here and has little to do with border security. Taking away jobs and benefits, defunding sanctuary cities and punishing employers that hire illegals will get many to leave on their own.

No police state needed to get rid of Pablo...just a little common sense.


While we're at it, let's solve the illegal drug problem too, using the Okie52 solution.

Our War of Drugs is retarded but you sure don't have to have secret police unless you already believe that's what DEA is now. Little things like schools, hospitals, municipal and state agencies being able to share information and report dopeheads. Beefing up the manpower for DEA and mandating that they work with local authorities.

But that's for those that are already high and has little to do with future dopeheads. Taking away jobs and benefits, defunding sanctuary cities and punishing employers that hire dopeheads will get many to quit dope on their own.

No police state needed to get rid of Dopehead, just a little common sense.


Hey, OKie, this problem solving stuff is fun!

[okie52]

While we're at it, let's solve the illegal drug problem too, using the Okie52 solution.

Our War of Drugs is retarded but you sure don't have to have secret police unless you already believe that's what DEA is now. Little things like schools, hospitals, municipal and state agencies being able to share information and report dopeheads. Beefing up the manpower for DEA and mandating that they work with local authorities.

But that's for those that are already high and has little to do with future dopeheads. Taking away jobs and benefits, defunding sanctuary cities and punishing employers that hire dopeheads will get many to quit dope on their own.

No police state needed to get rid of Dopehead, just a little common sense.


Hey, OKie, this problem solving stuff is fun!



Nah, I'm for legalizing drugs Juan...just not illegals. I know that will keep a lot of your family out of the country and maybe diminish your class size but the ones that are here legally could get high anytime.

Maybe we could give grants for your migrant workers class to help them find their way back to Mexico...perhaps big road maps with arrows pointing south.

[okie52]

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/illigal-immigration.jpg

San Joaquin, which booth is yours?

[olevetonahill]

Gulp....I actually agree with Olevet.

Yer entitled to be right every now and then,:cheerful:

[Midtowner]

Where do you get the notion that the Illegals are "Cheap Labor"
in my experience they arnt so cheap as they are WILLING to work.
I raise hell about all this But I dont have a prob with those willing to give an honest day work for an honest day pay.

Too many Americans are to ****in lazy and or spoiled to ever get their asses out in a field and Pick cotton, or beans or any thing else.

In Heavener for example there is a Chicken processing plant. ****ty work conditions, nasty asses work. Who do you think happily do those jobs? you got it . The Mexicans cause the tweakers and other *******s around think that work is beneath them so they live off welfare and thieving .

Absolutely. The welfare state has really ruined a lot of Americans and really contributed to a sort of generational poverty where folks aren't ashamed of being on welfare. Not everyone's going to be a doctor or a lawyer, but sure as hell those tweakers are just biding their time 'til they can apply to medical school or law school and get back on track--right after their meth mouth condition or COPD clears up. Having represented way too many of those folks, their self-delusion knows no bounds.

SE Oklahoma is really pretty full of opportunity. None of it particularly wonderful, but if you want to clean up chicken cages and do nasty agricultural work, you're definitely not going to starve in the darkness.

Now I know that some are just going to complain that these chicken producers aren't offering enough of a wage to entice non-Messicans, but that's not entirely within their control. The big chicken processors have forced the price of chicken lower and lower. They heap huge demands on producers and continue to offer less in the way of compensation (down double digits last year). Farms simply cannot break even and pay decent wages, hence the Mexicans.

This is a big 'ol systemic problem which ain't going to right itself until folks like okie52 are fine with paying a lot more for their food.

[okie52]

Absolutely. The welfare state has really ruined a lot of Americans and really contributed to a sort of generational poverty where folks aren't ashamed of being on welfare. Not everyone's going to be a doctor or a lawyer, but sure as hell those tweakers are just biding their time 'til they can apply to medical school or law school and get back on track--right after their meth mouth condition or COPD clears up. Having represented way too many of those folks, their self-delusion knows no bounds.

SE Oklahoma is really pretty full of opportunity. None of it particularly wonderful, but if you want to clean up chicken cages and do nasty agricultural work, you're definitely not going to starve in the darkness.

Now I know that some are just going to complain that these chicken producers aren't offering enough of a wage to entice non-Messicans, but that's not entirely within their control. The big chicken processors have forced the price of chicken lower and lower. They heap huge demands on producers and continue to offer less in the way of compensation (down double digits last year). Farms simply cannot break even and pay decent wages, hence the Mexicans.

This is a big 'ol systemic problem which ain't going to right itself until folks like okie52 are fine with paying a lot more for their food.

I'd be quite happy to pay more for food although pphil would disagree with it being a lot more. I think pphil estimated somewhere around 15%, now that's certainly a good investment in our country and labor force. Then, of course, there would be the cost savings to our infrastructure like education, hospitals, welfare, etc...

Midtowner, surely you would be glad to pay more to stop illegal immigration, wouldn't you?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Our system is retarded but you sure don't have to have secret police unless you already believe that's what ICE is now. Little things like schools, hospitals, municipal and state agencies being able to share information and report illegals. Beefing up the manpower for ICE and mandating that they work with local authorities.

That's all well and good, but what about municipal, county, and state political structures that act as sanctuary entities? Those places are growing more and more every day as the actual hispanic electorate grows, and that's not counting those not influenced by viable electoral bases but instead by personal politics. ICE won't do you any good whatsoever if local and state entities who are doing the street work won't submit detainees for processing. Sadly I've seen it firsthand where the disconnect between ICE's failures and the bureaucracy of getting anything done federally simply makes it extremely difficult on local level officers to actually do what it is you're talking about. The stack of paperwork and literally hours in custody transfers plain and simply takes officers off the street to continue to bust the bad guys. Who or what jurisdiction has the responsibility of detainment? How long is a reasonable turnover for the transfer of custody? Who pays the damn bill of throwing Pablo in the can for a week waiting on ICE's backlog to clear, all because our buddy Pablo made the mistake of crossing the border illegally and getting a ticket for 9 miles an hour over the speed limit? That's not common sense, that's a pure D clusterf*ck. An amazingly expensive clusterf*ck.

Throwing a few bucks at ICE for more officers simply isn't REMOTELY enough to get the job done. Given the sheer volume of the task at hand, it directly and severely impacts ALL levels of law enforcement from available beat officers to county jailors to state courts, long before it even sniffs the desk of ICE. All those agencies require tremendous increases in manpower, funding, and facilities just to even scratch the surface, and that's given an AHJ that's more than willing to step up and do their part. Is that the municipality's responsibility, to fund the sweeping additions for a federal concern? Is that the county's responsibility, to expand or build new facilities to house the influx of those people detained by local and county officials? What if they're detained on an interstate highway or have made the error of making intercounty crossings while committing their offense of being here illegally, therefore making it the AHJ of the state? Do you process in state-level courts or expand the federal court system?

Point being, you're right. It's federal. Local, county, and state jurisdictions do NOT have the funding, manpower, or facilities to do what you propose. Not even close. The only way to do what you propose is to A) tax the sh*t out of you federally and distribute it to the smaller jurisdictions based on need or B) tax the sh*t out of you at the local, county, and state levels based on need, which is C) directly affected by again, local, county, and state politics. The only option that guarantees uniform results and encompasses all jurisdictions is to keep it at the federal level and the only way to establish the federal presence required for actual ENFORCEMENT of these laws is to create the world's largest federal domestic police force that are johnny-on-the-spot to assume custody and detain all illegals as they are discovered for eventual deportation.

I don't want that. Not because addressing illegal immigration isn't worth the effort, but because I have a deep down problem with the very concept of a massive federal police force that operates and pervades the local level like some sort of star-spangled NKVD. Nuh uh. Even illegals aren't worth that.

[C&CDean]

I'd be quite happy to pay more for food although pphil would disagree with it being a lot more. I think pphil estimated somewhere around 15%, now that's certainly a good investment in our country and labor force. Then, of course, there would be the cost savings to our infrastructure like education, hospitals, welfare, etc...

Midtowner, surely you would be glad to pay more to stop illegal immigration, wouldn't you?

I have a whole different perspective on this whole deal than most. I was raised in Tucson, and grew up with Mexicans; legal and illegal. Here's my take on it:

I ain't got a problem with Mexicans. I ain't got a problem with them trying to better themselves and their situations. In my life experience with them (which is vast) they have proven to be hard-working, dependable, God fearing, family-oriented folks. They just want to work. The bad Mexicans are native-born who join gangs and also have learned to play the welfare system.

I do, however, have a problem with lazy white folk. These same lazy P'sOS are the ones crying the loudest about the illegals getting "free everything" when they're laying on their fat asses collecting WIC, food stamps, etc. **** them. Let the Mexicans work, pay taxes, and receive the benefits of doing so.

I have a Mexican guy working right now who works much harder than the white guys do, is more dependable, takes care of his family, and is honest to a fault. He won't even accept tips because "I am happy to have this job and the pay is fine." He gets it and he gives a ****. The little tweaker boys? Not so much.

[C&CDean]

And while we're at it, I ain't got a problem with the Asians either. They buy a ****hole, sleep in the store room in the back, make sure their kids learn to work hard and also study hard, and eventually turn it into a money-making enterprise and everybody goes "**** them chinks."

Not me. I say bless em'. I'm all about folks who wanna work.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Huh? **** them chinks. Always selling me tobacco products at discount prices while they sleep on the floor of the store room. Pffft. ;)

[Midtowner]

I'd be quite happy to pay more for food although pphil would disagree with it being a lot more. I think pphil estimated somewhere around 15%, now that's certainly a good investment in our country and labor force. Then, of course, there would be the cost savings to our infrastructure like education, hospitals, welfare, etc...

Midtowner, surely you would be glad to pay more to stop illegal immigration, wouldn't you?

I'm more concerned with integrating immigrants into our society than keeping them out. They want to come here to work? Awesome. We need them 'cuz POS white trash needs to be subsidized by someone.

I really liked Bush's program of work visas, but thought the path to citizenship they proposed was ridiculously burdensome. If we had a cheap and easy process which eliminated the criminals but provided our businesses with the workforce they needed, I'd be ecstatic.

Until that happens, I'm fine with Obama's stopgap measure even if it is nothing more than a political move to get votes it's still the right thing to do.

[KantoSooner]

Regarding enforcement of our borders, to continue with the current structure and attempt to simply add more enforcement would be legally problematic (I'm not too concerned with being stopped and asked for papers, but it is a legitimate constitutional issue), logistically nightmarish (how in hell do you hire, train, administer and operate what would be, literally a doubling of Homeland Security? Because you'd need about an additional 1.3 million staff to handle just the 'boots on the ground' part of increasing enforcement. <Cato Institute>) and hideously expensive....at a time when the necessities of our economy are pretty clearly pushing toward smaller, cheaper government.

But enforcing the rules regarding who lives here is quite legitimate and arguably one of the core functions of a central government.

Solution: put up with the minor inconveniences and inaccuracies of eVerify and simply demand it of employers. Jail business owners who don't comply. Don't finie 'em, jail 'em. Your industrial farmers won't mind paying a minor fine. They'll mind like hell being pulled off the golf course and thrown in the pokey for 90 days because they didn't demand their overseers use the system.

Without jobs, the problem of illegals very quickly becomes manageable. We've seen this already, unintentionally, with the current recession. As jobs disappeared, the number of illegals crossing the border dropped into NEGATIVE numbers. They are now self-deporting becuase they can't find work.

and, yeah, that means that native born citizens will have to get SSN's and ID. And, you know what? **** 'em if that's a problem. Being required to prove you're legit to get a job is simply not an important burden.

Voila! Problem solved. The only reason we haven't done this so far? Corruption. Too many people making too much a) money and b) political hay out of the situation as it exists today.

it's just that simple.

[okie52]

That's all well and good, but what about municipal, county, and state political structures that act as sanctuary entities? Those places are growing more and more every day as the actual hispanic electorate grows, and that's not counting those not influenced by viable electoral bases but instead by personal politics. ICE won't do you any good whatsoever if local and state entities who are doing the street work won't submit detainees for processing. Sadly I've seen it firsthand where the disconnect between ICE's failures and the bureaucracy of getting anything done federally simply makes it extremely difficult on local level officers to actually do what it is you're talking about. The stack of paperwork and literally hours in custody transfers plain and simply takes officers off the street to continue to bust the bad guys. Who or what jurisdiction has the responsibility of detainment? How long is a reasonable turnover for the transfer of custody? Who pays the damn bill of throwing Pablo in the can for a week waiting on ICE's backlog to clear, all because our buddy Pablo made the mistake of crossing the border illegally and getting a ticket for 9 miles an hour over the speed limit? That's not common sense, that's a pure D clusterf*ck. An amazingly expensive clusterf*ck.

Throwing a few bucks at ICE for more officers simply isn't REMOTELY enough to get the job done. Given the sheer volume of the task at hand, it directly and severely impacts ALL levels of law enforcement from available beat officers to county jailors to state courts, long before it even sniffs the desk of ICE. All those agencies require tremendous increases in manpower, funding, and facilities just to even scratch the surface, and that's given an AHJ that's more than willing to step up and do their part. Is that the municipality's responsibility, to fund the sweeping additions for a federal concern? Is that the county's responsibility, to expand or build new facilities to house the influx of those people detained by local and county officials? What if they're detained on an interstate highway or have made the error of making intercounty crossings while committing their offense of being here illegally, therefore making it the AHJ of the state? Do you process in state-level courts or expand the federal court system?

Point being, you're right. It's federal. Local, county, and state jurisdictions do NOT have the funding, manpower, or facilities to do what you propose. Not even close. The only way to do what you propose is to A) tax the sh*t out of you federally and distribute it to the smaller jurisdictions based on need or B) tax the sh*t out of you at the local, county, and state levels based on need, which is C) directly affected by again, local, county, and state politics. The only option that guarantees uniform results and encompasses all jurisdictions is to keep it at the federal level and the only way to establish the federal presence required for actual ENFORCEMENT of these laws is to create the world's largest federal domestic police force that are johnny-on-the-spot to assume custody and detain all illegals as they are discovered for eventual deportation.

I don't want that. Not because addressing illegal immigration isn't worth the effort, but because I have a deep down problem with the very concept of a massive federal police force that operates and pervades the local level like some sort of star-spangled NKVD. Nuh uh. Even illegals aren't worth that.

If you will notice from my previous posts regarding sanctuary cities I have said they should lose all federal funding until they are in compliance. It's amazing how many of them will then directtheir agencies to report illegals.

The initial burdens on state and local law enforcement will increase (hopefully greatly) until the problem wanes over a decade. It certainly won't be the cost of the Iraq or the Afghanistan wars but every bit as worthy. If additional federal funding is necessary to help local authorities then I'm absolutely for it. And just think of all of those jobs we will be creating!!!!

I didn't say throw a little bit of money at ICE or illegal immigration. Throw a lot at it. 12,000,000 illegals requires a lot of money. But a lot of them will leave voluntarily when their jobs and benefits are eliminated. Mandate everify for all employers and severely punish any employer that hires illegals. The rapid migration back to the homeland will be amazing. San Joaqin can even have a class for that.

But it all will still be pretty meaningless unless we secure our border. Ronnie gave 3,000,000 illegals amnesty 26 years ago with the promise of securing our border. Neither he nor any president that has followed him has come close to fulfilling that promise. Really pretty embarrassing that the US can be in wars around the globe and help other countries secure their borders and we can't do it here.

[pphilfran]

I'd be quite happy to pay more for food although pphil would disagree with it being a lot more. I think pphil estimated somewhere around 15%, now that's certainly a good investment in our country and labor force. Then, of course, there would be the cost savings to our infrastructure like education, hospitals, welfare, etc...

Midtowner, surely you would be glad to pay more to stop illegal immigration, wouldn't you?The data came from a U of Florida study....

Some crops would end up costing 15-20% more...most would be under 10%...

But I have lost the link to the study and haven't been able to find it lately...

The low cost labor can hamper tech growth...if wages get too high there will be someone out there with an auto picker that will perform the job for less overall cost...

[olevetonahill]

Dean summed it up nicely

[okie52]

I have a whole different perspective on this whole deal than most. I was raised in Tucson, and grew up with Mexicans; legal and illegal. Here's my take on it:

I ain't got a problem with Mexicans. I ain't got a problem with them trying to better themselves and their situations. In my life experience with them (which is vast) they have proven to be hard-working, dependable, God fearing, family-oriented folks. They just want to work. The bad Mexicans are native-born who join gangs and also have learned to play the welfare system.

I do, however, have a problem with lazy white folk. These same lazy P'sOS are the ones crying the loudest about the illegals getting "free everything" when they're laying on their fat asses collecting WIC, food stamps, etc. **** them. Let the Mexicans work, pay taxes, and receive the benefits of doing so.

I have a Mexican guy working right now who works much harder than the white guys do, is more dependable, takes care of his family, and is honest to a fault. He won't even accept tips because "I am happy to have this job and the pay is fine." He gets it and he gives a ****. The little tweaker boys? Not so much.

Well here is my take on it. I have many hispanic friends although most of them aren't laborers. The ones that are here (for the most part) are hard working, family oriented people. Most employers I know tell me they can't make it without hispanic labor as they work harder than any other ethnic group and, of course, are cheaper. There's a reason so many employers are fighting to keep hard working, cheap labor.

Of course that cheap labor comes at a cost to the American taxpayer which must support the families of these cheap laborers because their wages can't do it. And what's worse is the burden to our infrastructure is actually increased if these illegals are ever made citizens (social security, medicare, medicaid, etc...). So basically these illegal hiring employers are passing the costs of their profitable cheap labor to the American taxpayer.

If I was in their shoes I would be doing the same thing. Doesn't make it right, but trying to get a better life for yourself and/or your family is certainly understandable. It's just not the responsibility of this country to support them nor do I think its in the best interests of this country to allow illegal immigration.

Right now we are seeing the political blackmail occurring from the hispanics. They are going to vote against anyone trying to stop illegal immigration or denying them their benefits. Obama has always kowtowed to the illegals just like W did. Now even Romney has a softer approach because he doesn't want to alienate that illegal supporting hispanic vote. It sickens me to see such pathetic examples of groveling to a group that is completely devoted to the establishment of the Estados Unidos Mexicanos with little regard its impact on the US.

I would much rather see an immigration policy that continues to allow 500,000 people a year to immigrate that are culturally diverse, educated and skilled labor. 12,000,000 poorly educated, non english speaking, overbreeding, culturally identical doesn't really fit that bill.

[okie52]

I'm more concerned with integrating immigrants into our society than keeping them out. They want to come here to work? Awesome. We need them 'cuz POS white trash needs to be subsidized by someone.

I really liked Bush's program of work visas, but thought the path to citizenship they proposed was ridiculously burdensome. If we had a cheap and easy process which eliminated the criminals but provided our businesses with the workforce they needed, I'd be ecstatic.

Until that happens, I'm fine with Obama's stopgap measure even if it is nothing more than a political move to get votes it's still the right thing to do.

We need workers in this country with an 8% unemployment rate? Just the POS white trash need to be subsidized? Seems like there are more groups on the welfare rolls than that, some in much bigger proportions.

So taxpayers supporting illegals is the right thing to do? Did Obama mention he was going to secure the border while granting this 2 year pardon so it won't keep happening?

[Midtowner]

We need workers in this country with an 8% unemployment rate? Just the POS white trash need to be subsidized? Seems like there are more groups on the welfare rolls than that, some in much bigger proportions.

So taxpayers supporting illegals is the right thing to do? Did Obama mention he was going to secure the border while granting this 2 year pardon so it won't keep happening?

There are jobs out there right now if you have no problem cleaning hog pens or working in a slaughter house. Good luck finding 'mericans who will trade in their kooshy unemployment checks for that sort of hot mess.

[okie52]

There are jobs out there right now if you have no problem cleaning hog pens or working in a slaughter house. Good luck finding 'mericans who will trade in their kooshy unemployment checks for that sort of hot mess.

True...3 years of unemployment benefits has softened the labor market. On the other hand, no illegals doing the work would certainly be driving wages up where sum Mericans would be willing to clean out those pens.

[Ton Loc]

There are jobs out there right now if you have no problem cleaning hog pens or working in a slaughter house. Good luck finding 'mericans who will trade in their kooshy unemployment checks for that sort of hot mess.


True...3 years of unemployment benefits has softened the labor market. On the other hand, no illegals doing the work would certainly be driving wages up where sum Mericans would be willing to clean out those pens.

I think there is a point that everyone would agree.

I don't think we owe anyone anything. I'm not pissed at Mexicans or whoever coming and busting *** to improve their situation. Here's where I would be upset. If the vast amounts of Americans that were hurt by immigrants, legal or otherwise, we're hard working Americans that were having there jobs stolen from them because of cheap labor from illegals. That doesn't seem to be the case.

So, no, this recent "Amnesty" crap doesn't make me upset. Other than the timing, which is exactly what I expect from a politician.

[radio]

Yes people can and DO live off of Govt.assistance.

I have in-laws that do. I have many friends that do. It is extreemley lucrative especially if said people sell "commodities" on the side or some other sort of Cash generating activity.

HUD<WIC<EBT<MEDICAID<FREE LUNCHES,BREAKFAST can go on forever.

ps I live in a border state

The problem with immigration is not the ones that come over here to work and provide for their family....It is their **** *** children that loose all of their values because they govt. gives them the opportunity to be drains on society.

[Midtowner]

I think there is a point that everyone would agree.

I don't think we owe anyone anything. I'm not pissed at Mexicans or whoever coming and busting *** to improve their situation. Here's where I would be upset. If the vast amounts of Americans that were hurt by immigrants, legal or otherwise, we're hard working Americans that were having there jobs stolen from them because of cheap labor from illegals. That doesn't seem to be the case.

So, no, this recent "Amnesty" crap doesn't make me upset. Other than the timing, which is exactly what I expect from a politician.

The biggest problem is that the minimum wage is not enough to coax many welfare recipients out from in front of their big screen TVs. make these employers pay a living wage and you'll see more folks motivated to work.

Employers say you'll have fewer jobs, but that hasn't materialized in past minimum wage hikes, so that's bunk.

[olevetonahill]

The biggest problem is that the minimum wage is not enough to coax many welfare recipients out from in front of their big screen TVs. make these employers pay a living wage and you'll see more folks motivated to work.

Employers say you'll have fewer jobs, but that hasn't materialized in past minimum wage hikes, so that's bunk.

BS, Raise MW and prices have to go up. Then the Benefits have to go up to keep pace. Its a cycle dude.
You are right in the cuttin jobs tho, Instead of a MW earner working for MW for 40 hr weeks those jobs were cut to 20 hours and another person hired making a net gain of NO jobs. But the employer got to save the cost of employee benefits.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Nah, I'm for legalizing drugs Juan...just not illegals. I know that will keep a lot of your family out of the country and maybe diminish your class size but the ones that are here legally could get high anytime.

Maybe we could give grants for your migrant workers class to help them find their way back to Mexico...perhaps big road maps with arrows pointing south.


You know the potential "Dreamer" students who are now in high school were born when the unemployment rate was dipped below 4%, given that the full employment threshhold is considered 5%.

The economy was so red hot, their parents and anyone else willing to get off the couch could get as many $8-10/hour jobs as they wanted.

The economy was humming so well, anyone with a GED could contemplate the cost of motor boat maintenance.

It was the booming economy that attracted their parents here during the 80s, 90s, and prior to 2008. Net migration today is zero. Hail the Great Recession. Long live the Great Recession!

The big mistake of Reagan's amnesty was not that it attracted future migrants, but that it did not put a worker visa program in place for economic good times.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Midtowner, i like what you have been saying on page 5 and on.

I am in the camp an illgeal alien is illegal, no ifs, ands or buts! I also don't think its fair they go to the head of the line because they are present but illegal. I have friends that have spent tens of thousands of dollars to do it right, what does it say to them? I also have extreme contempt to the Chamber of Commerces for their stance on illegals. Theywere a big factor in defeating a law recently in Texas. I am sorry, an economy built on illegal labor is a false economy, one that will eventually crash and burn. Pay the true cost and everyone is even nd healthy. Living beyond ones means is no different is you rack it up with credit cards or on the back of an illegal. It is wrong! And will fail.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The biggest problem is that the minimum wage is not enough to coax many welfare recipients out from in front of their big screen TVs. make these employers pay a living wage and you'll see more folks motivated to work.

Employers say you'll have fewer jobs, but that hasn't materialized in past minimum wage hikes, so that's bunk.

Form a modern day CCC and make all welfare recipients work in shovel readt jobs, provide camp housing and day care and make them EARN their assisstance, errr salary, and i bet you will soon see those MoFos getting work in the real world, real quick.

[C&CDean]

Let's not forget drug testing for recipients of welfare and other social programs. It's only fair, and it's the right thing to do.

[Midtowner]

Let's not forget drug testing for recipients of welfare and other social programs. It's only fair, and it's the right thing to do.

I agree to a point, but I'll also acknowledge that if we did this, we're going to need to set up the criminal justice system and child welfare systems to handle a huge influx of folks.

[olevetonahill]

I agree to a point, but I'll also acknowledge that if we did this, we're going to need to set up the criminal justice system and child welfare systems to handle a huge influx of folks.
No we wouldnt, After the 1st wave of idiots flunked and went to jail whats left will decide they aint gonna take a chance

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Obama did not use an executive order. He simply directed the Department of Homeland Security to “reprioritize its enforcement policy” to, in effect, put everyone else ahead of the DREAM group when it comes to deporting illegal immigrants. This way, he avoids the unprecedented use of an executive order that might even be struck down in court.


Kinda like the police chief sayin, "Don't mess with those ****ers going just 5 mph over the speed limit. Don't mess with those ****ers with a bit of pot residue in the ashtray. Go after the drunk drivers and pot dealers instead.

It is not an executive order taking a law off the books. He is not giving them amnesty.

[okie52]

Obama did not use an executive order. He simply directed the Department of Homeland Security to “reprioritize its enforcement policy” to, in effect, put everyone else ahead of the DREAM group when it comes to deporting illegal immigrants. This way, he avoids the unprecedented use of an executive order that might even be struck down in court.


Kinda like the police chief sayin, "Don't mess with those ****ers going just 5 mph over the speed limit. Don't mess with those ****ers with a bit of pot residue in the ashtray. Go after the drunk drivers and pot dealers instead.

It is not an executive order taking a law off the books. He is not giving them amnesty.

Illegals must be really scared of deportation when they state their names and go on television to bich about their immigration status.

[KantoSooner]

You make a valid point, Okie.
I prefer to think of it as a victory of sorts. The DREAM aged kids are acting exactly like....wait for it....Americans.
It's kind of like when people sing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish. Yeah, I could get all twisted by it not being in English, but then I think about the fact that, if we're so far in their heads that they care enough to sing the song, we've already won the 'hearts and minds' battles.

[okie52]

You make a valid point, Okie.
I prefer to think of it as a victory of sorts. The DREAM aged kids are acting exactly like....wait for it....Americans.
It's kind of like when people sing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish. Yeah, I could get all twisted by it not being in English, but then I think about the fact that, if we're so far in their heads that they care enough to sing the song, we've already won the 'hearts and minds' battles.

Kanto,

People singing the national anthem in Spanish doesn't really bother me but being required to push 1 for English does. Or providing bilingual schools or bilingual federal/state/municipal documents.

I'm not really concerned about winning their hearts and minds because I want them to be loving their mother country enough to return to it. I don't see a population increase of 12,000,000 being a good thing particularly since most of that 12,000,000 will be a burden on the current Americans. Then there is the fact that 12,000,000 really can end up being 24-30,000,000 after family reunifications have been allowed. Add to that a growing Hispanic population is always going to support illegal immigration/open borders makes the political consequences for the future appear very disturbing.

If only those same Mexicans that are presently here in the US believed in the same illegal immigration laws of Mexico.

[Chuck Bao]

I think the basic problem is that our American culture has not yet caught up to the very rapidly changing economic realities.

Computerization, automation, communication and the resulting improvement in efficiency and productivity have essentially resulted in American corporations flattening their organizational structures into basically two groups - high-paid executives and low-paid workers.

Does anyone else find it a bit strange that our own American corporations are so busy outsourcing jobs to China, India, the Philippines just as our southern borders are being over-run with illegal immigrants from Mexico?

I have no doubt that a reality check is in store for a lot of Americans. Our current system can't handle this double whammy. Life-long employment gone. Retirement at 60 will be a thing of the past. Pension funds raided and wiped out. Corporate health benefits taken away.

No politician wants to mention any of that. They're still selling the American Dream. Mexicans make an easy scapegoat and that will be the case until many Americans realize that they'll have to lower their expectations and roll up their sleeves and get to work.

[C&CDean]

Kanto,

People singing the national anthem in Spanish doesn't really bother me but being required to push 1 for English does. Or providing bilingual schools or bilingual federal/state/municipal documents.

I'm not really concerned about winning their hearts and minds because I want them to be loving their mother country enough to return to it. I don't see a population increase of 12,000,000 being a good thing particularly since most of that 12,000,000 will be a burden on the current Americans. Then there is the fact that 12,000,000 really can end up being 24-30,000,000 after family reunifications have been allowed. Add to that a growing Hispanic population is always going to support illegal immigration/open borders makes the political consequences for the future appear very disturbing.

If only those same Mexicans that are presently here in the US believed in the same illegal immigration laws of Mexico.

I'm semi with you. I don't have any angst over 12 million whatevers coming in, but I have a huge problem with the English/Spanish thing.

No bilingual anything. It's America, our language is mother****ing American. It ain't English, it's American. If you wanna be here, learn to speak it, write it, read it. Do not expect me to learn your language - unless I go to your country. Then, by all means let's have signs, etc. in Spanish. It's your country and if I wanna live down there I should learn to speak/read/write the native language if I expect to get by.

It's pounds, not kilos. It's miles, not kilometers. It's good morning, not buenos dias.

[olevetonahill]

I'm semi with you. I don't have any angst over 12 million whatevers coming in, but I have a huge problem with the English/Spanish thing.

No bilingual anything. It's America, our language is mother****ing American. It ain't English, it's American. If you wanna be here, learn to speak it, write it, read it. Do not expect me to learn your language - unless I go to your country. Then, by all means let's have signs, etc. in Spanish. It's your country and if I wanna live down there I should learn to speak/read/write the native language if I expect to get by.

It's pounds, not kilos. It's miles, not kilometers. It's good morning, not buenos dias.

I see, The Buenos nachos is fer supper right?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Kanto,

People singing the national anthem in Spanish doesn't really bother me but being required to push 1 for English does. Or providing bilingual schools or bilingual federal/state/municipal documents.

I'm not really concerned about winning their hearts and minds because I want them to be loving their mother country enough to return to it. I don't see a population increase of 12,000,000 being a good thing particularly since most of that 12,000,000 will be a burden on the current Americans. Then there is the fact that 12,000,000 really can end up being 24-30,000,000 after family reunifications have been allowed. Add to that a growing Hispanic population is always going to support illegal immigration/open borders makes the political consequences for the future appear very disturbing.

If only those same Mexicans that are presently here in the US believed in the same illegal immigration laws of Mexico.

Okie, you'll be thrilled to know my youngest sister-in-law, who we brought over from Mexico in 2000, has her U.S. citizenship interview next week.

And you may recall I have another sister-in-law, who earlier this year got permanent residency (green card) after waiting in line for 15 years.

[olevetonahill]

Okie, you'll be thrilled to know my youngest sister-in-law, who we brought over from Mexico in 2000, has her U.S. citizenship interview next week.

And you may recall I have another sister-in-law, who earlier this year got permanent residency (green card) after waiting in line for 15 years.
At least yer doing it right. Or didja smuggle em across 1st?

[Chuck Bao]

Okie, you'll be thrilled to know my youngest sister-in-law, who we brought over from Mexico in 2000, has her U.S. citizenship interview next week.

And you may recall I have another sister-in-law, who earlier this year got permanent residency (green card) after waiting in line for 15 years.

They deserve respect for going through the proper channels. Kudos for that.

I'm an American and I would like to have my friend join me in my own country and share a house on my own land. Why is that so difficult?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

At least yer doing it right. Or didja smuggle em across 1st?

Smuggle? No.

[olevetonahill]

Smuggle? No.

So they just boldly walked huh? :sneakiness:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

They deserve respect for going through the proper channels. Kudos for that.

I'm an American and I would like to have my friend join me in my own country and share a house on my own land. Why is that so difficult?

Because the Republican Party is a lap dog for the religious right.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

So they just boldly walked huh? :sneakiness:

The youngest one qualified for a V-visa, which allows one to live in the U.S. while waiting to qualify for permanent residency, as long as you remain under 21 years old.

[olevetonahill]

The youngest one qualified for a V-visa, which allows one to live in the U.S. while waiting to qualify for permanent residency, as long as you remain under 21 years old.

Im glad ya doing it right. Just bustin on ya some .

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Im glad ya doing it right. Just bustin on ya some .


I know it Vet,... that would be like asking a moonshiner for his secret recipe.

[okie52]

I'm semi with you. I don't have any angst over 12 million whatevers coming in, but I have a huge problem with the English/Spanish thing.

No bilingual anything. It's America, our language is mother****ing American. It ain't English, it's American. If you wanna be here, learn to speak it, write it, read it. Do not expect me to learn your language - unless I go to your country. Then, by all means let's have signs, etc. in Spanish. It's your country and if I wanna live down there I should learn to speak/read/write the native language if I expect to get by.

It's pounds, not kilos. It's miles, not kilometers. It's good morning, not buenos dias.

Indeed.

[okie52]

Okie, you'll be thrilled to know my youngest sister-in-law, who we brought over from Mexico in 2000, has her U.S. citizenship interview next week.

And you may recall I have another sister-in-law, who earlier this year got permanent residency (green card) after waiting in line for 15 years.

Believe it or not Juan I'm happy for you. My sister in law and her family are from Argentina
and received their citizenship about 35 years ago. Her father was an aviation big shot so maybe that expedited their immigration process. They're a pleasure to be around plus she tells me a lot of dirty Spanish words. (I just wish I could remember them). They live in Dana point....maybe that's not too far from you?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Believe it or not Juan I'm happy for you. My sister in law and her family are from Argentina
and received their citizenship about 35 years ago. Her father was an aviation big shot so maybe that expedited their immigration process. They're a pleasure to be around plus she tells me a lot of dirty Spanish words. (I just wish I could remember them). They live in Dana point....maybe that's not too far from you?

Dana Point is Southern Calif. I'm up by Sacramento.

Argentina? I hope the weren't German refugees, were they? jk.

[okie52]

Dana Point is Southern Calif. I'm up by Sacramento.

Argentina? I hope the weren't German refugees, were they? jk.

Not any Krauts that I know of but I'll see the rest of their clan when we meet them in Buenos Aires this fall.

[diverdog]

Believe it or not Juan I'm happy for you. My sister in law and her family are from Argentina
and received their citizenship about 35 years ago. Her father was an aviation big shot so maybe that expedited their immigration process. They're a pleasure to be around plus she tells me a lot of dirty Spanish words. (I just wish I could remember them). They live in Dana point....maybe that's not too far from you?

You mean like concha? Hehehe.

I never made it to Argentina. Been to Brazil, Ecuador, Uraguay, Chile, and Columbia.

[KantoSooner]

The language thing? I have no problem whatsoever with multi-lingual forms. If it's a company and they've decided to go that route for business reasons, fine. If it's the government and they've decided it's just easier, fine. No guarantees, no 'rights' to it, but a simple, 'reasonableness' solution? Sure.

Pound v. Kilos? You want to keep bull**** measures, fine. You're penalizing our economy billions per year, but fine. <we should have shifted out of this ante-diluvian horsecrap in the 1970's.> Get your mind around it: a kilo is (roughly) 2 lbs. A kilometer is a half mile. A meter is a yard. A liter is a quart. See? That didn't hurt.

I've already resolved the illegal mess: eVerify. Period. It works. Now, about legal immigration; there is no effing way it takes the morons at INS more than 60 days to process the paperwork for a green card. None. And more than 6 months on an immigration petition is inexcusable as well. If the papers are filed, you make the damn decision. Up or down. 15 years. Just 'Wow' as to the degree of brute incompetence that generates that. Think about it in normal terms: you call a guy wanting to buy a car. He's a car dealer. Price, "I'll get back to you". It takes 15 years. How long does he stay employed? It really IS that simple.

[C&CDean]

The language thing? I have no problem whatsoever with multi-lingual forms. If it's a company and they've decided to go that route for business reasons, fine. If it's the government and they've decided it's just easier, fine. No guarantees, no 'rights' to it, but a simple, 'reasonableness' solution? Sure.

Pound v. Kilos? You want to keep bull**** measures, fine. You're penalizing our economy billions per year, but fine. <we should have shifted out of this ante-diluvian horsecrap in the 1970's.> Get your mind around it: a kilo is (roughly) 2 lbs. A kilometer is a half mile. A meter is a yard. A liter is a quart. See? That didn't hurt.

I've already resolved the illegal mess: eVerify. Period. It works. Now, about legal immigration; there is no effing way it takes the morons at INS more than 60 days to process the paperwork for a green card. None. And more than 6 months on an immigration petition is inexcusable as well. If the papers are filed, you make the damn decision. Up or down. 15 years. Just 'Wow' as to the degree of brute incompetence that generates that. Think about it in normal terms: you call a guy wanting to buy a car. He's a car dealer. Price, "I'll get back to you". It takes 15 years. How long does he stay employed? It really IS that simple.

Oh I've managed to get by with all the kilo/meter bull**** just fine. Remember, I was raised in Tucson where the road signs were in MPH/MetersPH since I was a kid. I understand the metric system perfectly. All that being said, I don't like it. I like being unique. Besides, who wants to play football on a 91.44 meter field? And it's 90 feet between bases, not 27.43 meters.

[Mississippi Sooner]

I'll just say that some measurements sound more impressive in centimeters than in inches.

[C&CDean]

Can anybody tell me what product this commercial was for: "A silly millimeter longer, 101."

[olevetonahill]

Can anybody tell me what product this commercial was for: "A silly millimeter longer, 101."
A cig,

[LiveLaughLove]

My thoughts are simple.

We use Mexican immigration laws for the Mexicans.

Chinese immigration laws for the Chinese.

Etc etc.

Is Mexico an open borders country? Hmm, absolutely not. It seems they jail and deport immediately. So tell me how they are not being completely hypocritical in all of this.

Tell me why we should be held to a far far different standard than a country that has, I might add, a sensible and smart approach to illegal immigration and border control.

Obama thinks he is some emperor or king. He panders in the most obvious ways, and has shown himself to be nothing, and I mean nothing, but a Chicago politician.

It's hilarious to see the reality versus the grandiose messiah figure he was portrayed to be during the last election.

Everything he criticized Bush for, he has now done and worse, and thrown in a healthy dose of racial, class, and social division for political gain to boot. The great uniter indeed.

[okie52]

The language thing? I have no problem whatsoever with multi-lingual forms. If it's a company and they've decided to go that route for business reasons, fine. If it's the government and they've decided it's just easier, fine. No guarantees, no 'rights' to it, but a simple, 'reasonableness' solution? Sure.

Pound v. Kilos? You want to keep bull**** measures, fine. You're penalizing our economy billions per year, but fine. <we should have shifted out of this ante-diluvian horsecrap in the 1970's.> Get your mind around it: a kilo is (roughly) 2 lbs. A kilometer is a half mile. A meter is a yard. A liter is a quart. See? That didn't hurt.

I've already resolved the illegal mess: eVerify. Period. It works. Now, about legal immigration; there is no effing way it takes the morons at INS more than 60 days to process the paperwork for a green card. None. And more than 6 months on an immigration petition is inexcusable as well. If the papers are filed, you make the damn decision. Up or down. 15 years. Just 'Wow' as to the degree of brute incompetence that generates that. Think about it in normal terms: you call a guy wanting to buy a car. He's a car dealer. Price, "I'll get back to you". It takes 15 years. How long does he stay employed? It really IS that simple.

The point was a company or government agency shouldn't be faced with the problem of language in this country nor the unnecessary expense. I certainly shouldn't be having to press one for English and it certainly isn't reasonable for states/cities to be providing bilingual schools.

Measurements I don't really have a problem with although I'm very thankful OK doesn't have the Surveys, metes and bounds, spanish varas crap that exists in TX.

I've long endorsed everify and harsh punishment for employers of illegals but the border still has to be secured (See last amnesty). As to legal immigration I'm all for 500,000 legal immigrants per year and just about anything that can expedite that process I'll support. Of course, I am wanting legal immigration to incorporate cultural diversity, highly skilled and/or highly educated immigrants as prerequisites not 500,000 culturally identical, poorly educated, unskilled, and overpopulating.

[okie52]

Can anybody tell me what product this commercial was for: "A silly millimeter longer, 101."

vet said it...I can still remember that part of the ad song. Benson & Hedges?

[Midtowner]

My thoughts are simple.

We use Mexican immigration laws for the Mexicans.

Chinese immigration laws for the Chinese.

You're going to have a small equal protection problem there.

[olevetonahill]

vet said it...I can still remember that part of the ad song. Benson & Hedges?
B&H was what came to mind .

[LiveLaughLove]

You're going to have a small equal protection problem there.

Why worry about the law? Obama doesn't.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

My thoughts are simple.

We use Mexican immigration laws for the Mexicans.
.

Most any U.S. citizen can visit Mexicowithout a visa.

[olevetonahill]

Most any U.S. citizen can visit Mexicowithout a visa.
Because MOST dont wanta STAY there and those that do Bring Money INTO the country.

[LiveLaughLove]

Most any U.S. citizen can visit Mexicowithout a visa.

Visit, not live the rest of their lives, work, send their kids to school on Mexico's dime, use Mexico's welfare system, or vote in Mexico's elections (illegally).

I don't mind giving temporary visitor visas to Mexicans so they can vacation and spend money in the US. Unfortunately, that's not whats happening.

[olevetonahill]

jaun, a serious question. Why do the messicans WANT to come to the States?

[C&CDean]

I'd rather fight than switch.

[okie52]

I'd rather fight than switch.

Tareyton