I finally understand the Affordable Health Care Act

[cleller]

Each of the last two years the cost of my health insurance has increased by 18%, which I considered fairly dramatic. On top of that the deductibles rose, also. Naturally this caused me to grumble, wondering how this constitutes "affordable" health care.

I just finished my enrollment for the next year, realizing I'll be paying thru the nose for some insurance that won't cover any expenses I'm likely to incur. Then it hit me, because I am paying SO MUCH, some other slob will be able to get their health care for free, provided they have no visible means of support, or assets. THAT"S who now has "affordable" health care.

Kind of made me feel warm and prickly all over.

[REDREX]

Pelosi said we had to pass it before we could find out what was in it----Looks like you have

[Curly Bill]

Each of the last two years the cost of my health insurance has increased by 18%, which I considered fairly dramatic. On top of that the deductibles rose, also. Naturally this caused me to grumble, wondering how this constitutes "affordable" health care.

I just finished my enrollment for the next year, realizing I'll be paying thru the nose for some insurance that won't cover any expenses I'm likely to incur. Then it hit me, because I am paying SO MUCH, some other slob will be able to get their health care for free, provided they have no visible means of support, or assets.

Kind of made me feel warm and prickly all over.

Keep that nose to the grindstone, lots of Obammy voters out there are depending, and dependent, on ya!

[olevetonahill]

Couldnt resist


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSaEQA83nFw

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Each of the last two years the cost of my health insurance has increased by 18%, which I considered fairly dramatic. On top of that the deductibles rose, also. Naturally this caused me to grumble, wondering how this constitutes "affordable" health care.

Be thankful it's only 18% over two years. Both family and single plan employee contributions for me and my guys are increasing almost 100% come July 1. Whether it's Obamacare or preparing for the apocalypse, I don't know and I don't care. Either way, it's God damned brutal.

[KantoSooner]

But, but, but, we have the most perfectest, bestest, most flawless healthcare system in the whole wide world.

(let's ignore that costs have been increasing above the rate of inflation for over 50 years without a break.)

[Position Limit]

two things you should know: first, you have no clue. second, welcome to the free market economy.

ps.... it'a all pelosi's fault. narrative....chicken fried steak.....

[Ton Loc]

Insurance costs suck. Lucky, mine have been about the same and my co-pay went down $5.
I hate the AHA, but I hate lots of things. Like the fact that insurance companies go ahead and **** with people before the AHA goes into full effect.

[Sooner5030]

+more people covered
+more types of care covered
+people joining with pre-conditions and haven't been contributing to the pool
---------
= shiatload increase in costs spread among the pool


The ACA is not the only problem but it damn sure is not the solution. Our cultural problems are more to blame than our idealogical problems are though.

Acute (and chronic) care is the priority because it affects an identifiable statistic (someone we know is injured) while preventive care is more effective but no one can tie the long term benefit to someone they know. Therefore we put more $ into acute (and chronic) care.

We have sickcare that is profitable to insurance, med-tech, medical services, and provides job security to all kinds of folks in the industry and government. Too many stakeholders are benefiting from the massive amounts of GDP spent in this area. It will not change until it bankrupts us.

FU dems/pubs/lobbyist

[OULenexaman]

hey.....this is a big ****in deal!!!

[diverdog]

Pelosi said we had to pass it before we could find out what was in it----Looks like you have

Rex:

Since 2001 the overall cost of health coverage for the average family has doubled while wages have only gone up 34%. The driver for health care reform has been the huge rate increases that have gone on over the last couple of decades.

[diverdog]

+more people covered
+more types of care covered
+people joining with pre-conditions and haven't been contributing to the pool
---------
= shiatload increase in costs spread among the pool


The ACA is not the only problem but it damn sure is not the solution. Our cultural problems are more to blame than our idealogical problems are though.

Acute (and chronic) care is the priority because it affects an identifiable statistic (someone we know is injured) while preventive care is more effective but no one can tie the long term benefit to someone they know. Therefore we put more $ into acute (and chronic) care.

We have sickcare that is profitable to insurance, med-tech, medical services, and provides job security to all kinds of folks in the industry and government. Too many stakeholders are benefiting from the massive amounts of GDP spent in this area. It will not change until it bankrupts us.

FU dems/pubs/lobbyist

Preach on brother. And a big Amen!

[sappstuf]

I thought Obamacare was going to bend the cost curve down... That is what we were told repeatedly.. Hmmm, strange it doesn't appear to be true.

[cleller]

two things you should know: first, you have no clue. second, welcome to the free market economy.

ps.... it'a all pelosi's fault. narrative....chicken fried steak.....

Here's a few other things I know:

I. I don't try to insult people on the internet in lieu of learning the facts.

2. AHA is not representative of a "free market economy"; this should be glaringly obvious. It is going in the exact opposite direction of a free market economy, as it is subject to government mandate, control, and oversight.

3. I've been paying for health insurance for 28 years. The last two years have been the largest single season increases I've seen. This coincides with events created by AHA.

[diverdog]

I thought Obamacare was going to bend the cost curve down... That is what we were told repeatedly.. Hmmm, strange it doesn't appear to be true.

We will see after this year. I know insurance companies will have to justify premium increases over 10%.

[sappstuf]

We will see after this year. I know insurance companies will have to justify premium increases over 10%.

After this year? I have a feeling we won't have to worry about it after this month...

[diverdog]

Here's a few other things I know:

I. I don't try to insult people on the internet to make a point.
2. AHA is not representative of a "free market economy"; this should be glaringly obvious. It is going in the exact opposite direction of a free market economy, as it is subject to government mandate, control, and oversight.
3. I've been paying for health insurance for 28 years. The last two years have been the largest single season increases I've seen. This coincides with events created by AHA.

Clellar:

When I wrote P&C insurance in the 1990's we saw increases of 25% or more. This is not new to the industry. What I suspect is happening is that insurance companies are jacking rates right now in anticipation of the implimentation of the AHA. They know they will not have that ability next year. So in a sense I do think you are right that one of the unintended consequences would be premium increases with the initiation of the AHA. It is probably being driven by some unknowns of the law.

[diverdog]

After this year? I have a feeling we won't have to worry about it after this month...

When are they ruling?

[sappstuf]

When are they ruling?

It is expected by the end of the month.

There are rumors that Obama may have been leaked the results and at least part of the law has been struck down. He recently told some bigwig donors that healthcare would have to be revisited in his second term at a $35K a plate dinner.

The most likely part of the law to be struck down would be the individual mandate and without it, the entire enchilada falls apart.

[diverdog]

It is expected by the end of the month.

There are rumors that Obama may have been leaked the results and at least part of the law has been struck down. He recently told some bigwig donors that healthcare would have to be revisited in his second term at a $35K a plate dinner.

The most likely part of the law to be struck down would be the individual mandate and without it, the entire enchilada falls apart.

I doubt he knows.

I am bummed. I'll Have Another scratched from the Belmont. Leg problems. He may never race again.

[sappstuf]

I doubt he knows.

I am bummed. I'll Have Another scratched from the Belmont. Leg problems. He may never race again.

I just heard about the horse. Too bad. I would have watched the race to see a potential triple crown winner. Not now.

[cleller]

Clellar:

When I wrote P&C insurance in the 1990's we saw increases of 25% or more. This is not new to the industry. What I suspect is happening is that insurance companies are jacking rates right now in anticipation of the implimentation of the AHA. They know they will not have that ability next year. So in a sense I do think you are right that one of the unintended consequences would be premium increases with the initiation of the AHA. It is probably being driven by some unknowns of the law.

Well Diver at least you have the clear head to see what is in front of you. I also appreciate your ability to disagree (usually) and even irritate (occasionally) and still sound intelligent.
The sad part is there is no fixing this thing. Anyone that has seen a big hospital emergency room on a Saturday night knows that. As a nation we've allowed irresponsible behavior and a welfare mentality to create a system where everyone thinks they're owed something. They walk out of the hospital into a lawyer's office because "I got hurt, and that doctor didn't help, I need to be paid".

Then you've got the fact that medicine can now work wonders. 75 years ago if someone suffered a horrific injury or terrible disease, it was pretty cheap to make them comfortable and wait for the inevitable.

The question is who will pay for it?

[REDREX]

Rex:

Since 2001 the overall cost of health coverage for the average family has doubled while wages have only gone up 34%. The driver for health care reform has been the huge rate increases that have gone on over the last couple of decades.----So how did this bill help ?

[sappstuf]

----So how did this bill help ?

Well Rex, as DD has pointed out healthcare premiums have doubled in the past decade. But with Obamacare insurance companies can only increase premiums by 10% a year without justification, which means that 10 years from now, if they could up 10% per year we will, errr.. Double costs again in the next decade with no justification.

Progress!

[KantoSooner]

It's worse, by the 'rule of 72' the doubling will happen in 7.2 years.

Without serious attention to costs, it doesn't matter how we decide to distribute benefits. It can be pure self insurance, it can be medicare for everyone. If it costs more than the national economy we won't have a system anymore.

What is our national fixation with political orthodoxy going to be worth when we can't even have a simple discussion of our problems?

[sappstuf]

It's worse, by the 'rule of 72' the doubling will happen in 7.2 years.

Without serious attention to costs, it doesn't matter how we decide to distribute benefits. It can be pure self insurance, it can be medicare for everyone. If it costs more than the national economy we won't have a system anymore.

What is our national fixation with political orthodoxy going to be worth when we can't even have a simple discussion of our problems?

Yes, but the rule of 72 isn't near as humorous as I was trying to be.

Now the rule of 69.... Say that without smiling!

[yermom]

the part i'm missing is the free health care. who exactly is getting free healthcare that wasn't before AHCA?

[diverdog]

----So how did this bill help ?

Honestly Rex I don't have a clue. I think we do not have any good solutions before us.aybe we scrap everything and start over.

[diverdog]

It's worse, by the 'rule of 72' the doubling will happen in 7.2 years.

Without serious attention to costs, it doesn't matter how we decide to distribute benefits. It can be pure self insurance, it can be medicare for everyone. If it costs more than the national economy we won't have a system anymore.

What is our national fixation with political orthodoxy going to be worth when we can't even have a simple discussion of our problems?

This is my biggest fear.

[diverdog]

Well Diver at least you have the clear head to see what is in front of you. I also appreciate your ability to disagree (usually) and even irritate (occasionally) and still sound intelligent.
The sad part is there is no fixing this thing. Anyone that has seen a big hospital emergency room on a Saturday night knows that. As a nation we've allowed irresponsible behavior and a welfare mentality to create a system where everyone thinks they're owed something. They walk out of the hospital into a lawyer's office because "I got hurt, and that doctor didn't help, I need to be paid".

Then you've got the fact that medicine can now work wonders. 75 years ago if someone suffered a horrific injury or terrible disease, it was pretty cheap to make them comfortable and wait for the inevitable.

The question is who will pay for it?

It is a mess. That is for sure.

[pphilfran]

Swiss system
Ban advertising for prescription drugs

[Midtowner]

Swiss system
Ban advertising for prescription drugs

Good idea, but that doesn't fix everything.

Also, that idea is very likely unconstitutional.

[pphilfran]

Good idea, but that doesn't fix everything.

Also, that idea is very likely unconstitutional.

I wish it were that simple...it would help...

I wasn't talking constitutionality.. :)

[Midtowner]

I wish it were that simple...it would help...

I wasn't talking constitutionality.. :)

Now you're starting to sound like an Okie politician!

To hell with constitutionality!

[soonercruiser]

Keep that nose to the grindstone, lots of Obammy voters out there are depending, and dependent, on ya!

After all, ..."it's only fair"!
:offended:

[soonercruiser]

I doubt he knows.

I am bummed. I'll Have Another scratched from the Belmont. Leg problems. He may never race again.

But, unlike Vet, he will be able to "Stud" on the remaining 4 legs!
:tongue:

[soonercruiser]

It's worse, by the 'rule of 72' the doubling will happen in 7.2 years.

Without serious attention to costs, it doesn't matter how we decide to distribute benefits. It can be pure self insurance, it can be medicare for everyone. If it costs more than the national economy we won't have a system anymore.

What is our national fixation with political orthodoxy going to be worth when we can't even have a simple discussion of our problems?

Hey guys!
You ain't seen nothing yet!

Wait until hyperinflation kicks in.....thanks Bernanke!

[diverdog]

Hey guys!
You ain't seen nothing yet!

Wait until hyperinflation kicks in.....thanks Bernanke!

Actually cruiser hyper inflation would be one way out of our debt. Not a good option but it would work.

[Midtowner]

Actually cruiser hyper inflation would be one way out of our debt. Not a good option but it would work.

It'd certainly be quick, but it'd sure destabilize the world economy. An extremely weakened dollar would be pretty devastating to many of the countries we trade with, but could be a really good thing for the American dollar.

We could also pay off our mortgages and student loans in no time when the minimum wage is set at $100/hour.

[cleller]

Ever read up on the Zimbabwe situation? Makes our government look like geniuses. Place used to be the breadbasket of Africa, now they are starving.
Much different backstory, but a case of government takeover run amok.

[pphilfran]

Now you're starting to sound like an Okie politician!

To hell with constitutionality!

That just puts me in the same boat as Obamacare...it might not pass SC muster this month...

[diverdog]

Ever read up on the Zimbabwe situation? Makes our government look like geniuses. Place used to be the breadbasket of Africa, now they are starving.
Much different backstory, but a case of government takeover run amok.

We say Zimbabwe. :orange:

VC2xh8hufq8

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Keep that nose to the grindstone, lots of Obammy voters out there are depending, and dependent, on ya!

Yessir, they wants their Obama money!!!

[8timechamps]

+more people covered
+more types of care covered
+people joining with pre-conditions and haven't been contributing to the pool
---------
= shiatload increase in costs spread among the pool


The ACA is not the only problem but it damn sure is not the solution. Our cultural problems are more to blame than our idealogical problems are though.

Acute (and chronic) care is the priority because it affects an identifiable statistic (someone we know is injured) while preventive care is more effective but no one can tie the long term benefit to someone they know. Therefore we put more $ into acute (and chronic) care.

We have sickcare that is profitable to insurance, med-tech, medical services, and provides job security to all kinds of folks in the industry and government. Too many stakeholders are benefiting from the massive amounts of GDP spent in this area. It will not change until it bankrupts us.

FU dems/pubs/lobbyist

Best post in this thread.

There is no plan that will fix the situation. It's a cultural occurrence, and very unlikely to change in our lifetime.

[badger]

Meh, I'm willing to pay my fair share. But when I do, I sincerely wish that people would take their own health more seriously than some appear to, because dang it, I'm suddenly investing in YOUR health as well as mine with Obamacare!

Soooo... anyways, like I've been saying for months. DIET NOW OR BECOME TRABER
http://i.imgur.com/8g9gz.gif
(and thank you forever to the land thieves guy that posted that originally, hehe)

[diverdog]

The goal of obamacare was not to make care more affordable in the short term. In the short term, the cost of healthcare will go up. Insurance, hospitals, etc are going to try to make as much money as possible before it all kicks in.

Then Obama and the dems can point fingers at the big bad insurance companies and say "see, they can't be trusted". Then they will propose a single payer system as the answer and people will be too stupid to see they have been manipulated.

You might be right.

How is your practice doing?

[soonercruiser]

The goal of obamacare was not to make care more affordable in the short term. In the short term, the cost of healthcare will go up. Insurance, hospitals, etc are going to try to make as much money as possible before it all kicks in.

Then Obama and the dems can point fingers at the big bad insurance companies and say "see, they can't be trusted". Then they will propose a single payer system as the answer and people will be too stupid to see they have been manipulated.

Maybe. But that is not what the Dems were saying at the time, in order to get more votes for it!
They were touting all the savings.
.....and then came the real costs surfacing....new gov estimates....adjusted estimates....the real cost in jobs....etc.

[cleller]

Had some interesting news over the last few days. I've mention before I know a guy who is from the Czech Republic. He finds comparing American healthcare with Europe laughable. His brother back there is in the midst of some serious health issues, some type of liver failure. Despite their socialized medicine, he has been forced to sell everything he owns to pay for private medical care. Apparently he would have otherwise just died.

Now he is broke, and has been moved out of the modern hospital he was in, and is in some crummy hospital, facing a 50% chance of recovery. Sounds like a very different story than what a US patient would face, but this is socialized medicine.

Is this the direction we're headed here?

[bluedogok]

The goal of Obamacare really had very little to do with healthcare, that was just the ruse used for a massive tax bill that expanded the powers IRS to track money and increase collections. Most of the implementation of Obamacare is under the banner of the IRS, not any kind of health agency. The business reporting requirements coming in the next few years just create more bureaucracy which necessitates the hiring more more people for the IRS to process this information and track down and penalize those who skirt the old and new rules. In effect that was the main goal, to increase tax collections for the IRS and give them more tools to keep track of everyone.

[diverdog]

Fine right now. I look for it to get rough starting next year. We get more and more bs regulations piled on that have nothing to do with taking care of patients.

Can you give me some examples? Just asking? I am always curious what you guys face.

[yermom]

Had some interesting news over the last few days. I've mention before I know a guy who is from the Czech Republic. He finds comparing American healthcare with Europe laughable. His brother back there is in the midst of some serious health issues, some type of liver failure. Despite their socialized medicine, he has been forced to sell everything he owns to pay for private medical care. Apparently he would have otherwise just died.

Now he is broke, and has been moved out of the modern hospital he was in, and is in some crummy hospital, facing a 50% chance of recovery. Sounds like a very different story than what a US patient would face, but this is socialized medicine.

Is this the direction we're headed here?

so here they would have just sent him home until he was about to die after his insurance company dropped him, right?

[REDREX]

Healthcare costs going up with or without Obamacare--- http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/health-costs-to-keep-rising-with-or-without-obamas-plan-study-says/1235229

[KantoSooner]

One of the things I think has been overlooked in this 'debate' (we never had a national debate on the issue, it's been more like little pockets of people breaking off and talking as small groups), is the important role played in our economy by the flexibility of labor. Europe is absolutely schlerotic due to an inability to adjust labor sizes as business ebbs and flows. Not so here; for better or worse, we can adapt.
Now, the problem is that with so much of our benefit packages tied to a single employer, loss of a job typically also means loss of health care.
What is wrong with creating a system of portable benefits? You'd pay into a pension, your employer would contribute with a fixed minimum percentage (and could go more in the event they wanted to use that as a motivation/reward) and the account would be personal to you - not open to the idiocy of a CFO whose gay lover had a hot investment tip for the retirement fund pool.
Likewise on health insurance. Your company could pay X amount if they wanted to offer health care and otherwise you could buy into a government plan OR a private plan. The government plan would likely be a bit shabbier than the private one, like most government things are. But you wouldn't die in the ditch.
It just doesn't seem like it should be a big deal. So long as the fear of losing it is largely removed from loss of employment, our economy would gain big time.

[soonercruiser]

Healthcare costs going up with or without Obamacare--- http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/health-costs-to-keep-rising-with-or-without-obamas-plan-study-says/1235229

Red,
Just reading that article...... the emphasis was on the fact that the overall amount "spent" on healthcare in the economy will increase.

I'm not sure it's been talked about much, but two generaltions removed from my parents.....the American public is totally hypocondrial about their health, and appearance!
Their appearance, their hair color, etc. My father would refuse to go to the doctor for anything, unless he was near death. And after his so-called mining accident, that all changed. This was despite the fact that miners had a great healthcare plan.
I personally feel guilty about having some unwanted hair on/in my ears removed. And, because of all the time in the sun, I do some of my own dermatology with Compound W. My knee surgeries are a result of Dr. Cooper's great invention of aerobics making me run so many miles on hard pavement to stay fit to military standards.

But, these days, you can't have wrinkles, gray hair, ED from old age, must have eye surgery rather than wear glasses, can have your company's insurance pay for a sex change operation.....and GOD forbid that you get that disease "pregnancy" when not wanted.

Part of the problem is the overuse of medical care by those who do have insurance paying for non-urgent care.

[diverdog]

Red,
Just reading that article...... the emphasis was on the fact that the overall amount "spent" on healthcare in the economy will increase.

I'm not sure it's been talked about much, but two generaltions removed from my parents.....the American public is totally hypocondrial about their health, and appearance!
Their appearance, their hair color, etc. My father would refuse to go to the doctor for anything, unless he was near death. And after his so-called mining accident, that all changed. This was despite the fact that miners had a great healthcare plan.
I personally feel guilty about having some unwanted hair on/in my ears removed. And, because of all the time in the sun, I do some of my own dermatology with Compound W. My knee surgeries are a result of Dr. Cooper's great invention of aerobics making me run so many miles on hard pavement to stay fit to military standards.

But, these days, you can't have wrinkles, gray hair, ED from old age, must have eye surgery rather than wear glasses, can have your company's insurance pay for a sex change operation.....and GOD forbid that you get that disease "pregnancy" when not wanted.

Part of the problem is the overuse of medical care by those who do have insurance paying for non-urgent care.

Cruiser a lot of this elective and not covered under insurance.

The biggest drivers of health care comes in the later stages of life in the form of hospitalization and critical care. Non-urgent care unless you mean treatment in emergency rooms is not a real driver of the cost.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/sep/22/20060922-111548-6683r/

[soonercruiser]

Cruiser a lot of this elective and not covered under insurance.

The biggest drivers of health care comes in the later stages of life in the form of hospitalization and critical care. Non-urgent care unless you mean treatment in emergency rooms is not a real driver of the cost.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/sep/22/20060922-111548-6683r/

Diver,
My point was about the article posted.
That article REd linked to was discussing the total amount spent on healthcare.....not just the amount paid by healthcare insurance.

[cleller]

so here they would have just sent him home until he was about to die after his insurance company dropped him, right?

You know the answer to that. The hospitals would have given him the same care as everyone else. If he's unable to pay up, the patients that can pay are overcharged until things balance.

Were he actually here, he would most likely have been paying for a private health insurance policy, since he had assets to protect. Then, he would have fallen into their statistical model, his bills paid, his assets protected, and taxpayers not impacted.

The point being that in a socialized system, the care becomes so substandard that you must pay out of your pocket in addition to the amount you've already paid via taxes. Even in England those that can afford it, pay for private insurance to avoid the slipshod social system.

[diverdog]

A lot of the regulations don't have a whole lot to do directly with obamacare, but with Medicare and their attempts to decrease payments to hospitals and practitioners. However, these attempts at decreasing payments are being factored in to the "Medicare cost reduction" that the cbo is counting. Or at least that is my understanding.

For instance, we are now having to report any possible adverse or unusual outcomes with our bill to Medicare. By reporting it, we are being given an incentive (1-3%) to make these reports. Beginning in 2013, our pay will start to get docked if we don't report any adverse outcomes. In addition, our pay will begin to be determined based on outcomes. So if we report an unusual outcome, we won't get our pay docked for reporting, but we will get our pay docked for an unusual outcome.(catch22). If however, we have an unusual outcome and report that the outcome wasn't unusual and Medicare determines otherwise, then I face a $5000 fine and possible jail time.

A lot of the unusual outcomes are beyond my control like patient temperature, reintubation, prolonged sedation, postoperative confusion, etc. Right now, temperature is the big issue. That is a big problem with Medicare patients and total joint replacement. The surgeons want the rooms at 55 degrees because of the cement for the joint. I can do everything in my power to try to warm up a patient, but the patient will still get cold.

Man oh man I got a headache just reading this information.

I thought one of the ways they wanted to reduce cost was to streamline paperwork. This sounds like the exact opposite of that goal.

Do they send you to any type of training on how to determine the difference between a positive and a not so positive outcome? Do they realize surgery has no guarantees and by putting a patient under there is a risk of death?

[diverdog]

Obamacare isn't socialized medicine. Neither he nor the democrats nor lawyers want that. True socialized medicine would involve government being responsible for the cost and training associated with becoming a doctor. In addition, government would be involved in setting up, running and paying for the costs associated with hospitals, clinics and emergency rooms. Add in that government would be responsible for malpractice, as well. Democrats don't want that. What Obama and his ilk want is fascist medicine. As a doctor, you assume all the costs of medical school, training, setting up a practice and liability while government controls your practice and what you can earn.

Don't you face the same thing with insurance companies? From what I understand HMO's and some PPO's can make determinations that are not always in the best interest of a medical practice.

What I have noticed with a number of my clients that have larger practices is that they are selling out to the local hospital or at least making an affiliation with them. I think a lot of it has to do with shared cost of paperwork processing and spreading the cost of insurance.

Speaking of paperwork, I had a lot of small business loans to practices to get their patient files converted to digital because of a government mandate. I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but it was certainly expensive for the doctors to have this done.

At some point this nation will end up with a form of socialized medicine. I don't see anyway around it. I just hope that there is considerable discussion on how to get to a single payer system and this is something close to what the Swiss have installed in their country.

Funny I just saw this in the news and decided to edit my post:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/story/2012-06-16/health-care-costs-supreme-court-decision-awaited/55627940/1

[jkjsooner]

You know the answer to that. The hospitals would have given him the same care as everyone else. If he's unable to pay up, the patients that can pay are overcharged until things balance.

This is not true. Hospitals are required to provide emergency care. They're not required to give you transplants or chemotherapy, etc.

I think it's very likely that some uninsured person with liver failure here would not receive the care they needed to live with it. Yes, when they're near death the hospital will take them and care for them until they die but they won't necessarily give them the cutting edge treatment they may need to survive.

[jkjsooner]

A surgeon may get 75 cents on the dollar, but I get 18 from Medicare. Insurance companies pay me 85-95 cents on the dollar. If a single payer system got in place and kept the same rates, I am done.

So how exactly do you define "on the dollar" if nobody pays 100%?

I suppose you define it based on the ridiculously absurd prices the uninsured get charged - which is one of the biggest flaws in our current system. It's no doubt that uninsured don't pay their medical bills when their bills are easily twice as much as the insurance companies/medicare pays. (And, yes, I do have insurance and have throughout my life.)

[Sooner5030]

as one of the more libertarian leaning conservatives this is one area that I disagree with both dem/pub ideas.

I believe that health care is a public good and that some form of baseline care should be provided to everyone in a VA type model. Rationed, non-selective care provided without insurance.

We need a separate tax like FICA or a national sales tax that everyone pays in....no progressive scale like income taxes.

Run it just like the VA.

Get health insurance out of the employee/employer relationship.

let the providers be individual contractors for the government and provide them with qualified immunity.

Allow for an unregulated health insurance industry for the wealthy to go to private providers and to get better care.

preventive programs such as check-ups, vaccines, diet and exercise should be part of the educational system.

Instead we'll get some crafty named bill that is 2,000 pages long....the current stakeholders basically wrote the legislation.

[radio]

Obamacare = you work, they dont, you pay they dont. Pretty simple.

Ever been to the ER in El Paso?

In Tx Medicaid buys IPods for "prenadal" care. WTF? Pays for the mother's gym membership ect.

As a previous poster wrote it is Cultural. Why do you see brand new Denalis pulling into convenience stores and five kids get out and buy their candies and sodas with EBT. Many "Latinos" aka Mescans dont get married because it is too profitable not to.

More kids = more money for them. Which results in stupid ****s like me that work have to pay for them.

[soonercruiser]

Thanks for the "bird's eye view" radio!
:disturbed:

[jkjsooner]

Obamacare = you work, they dont, you pay they dont. Pretty simple.

I thought Obamacare required the uninsured to get insurance or pay a tax penalty. Isn't that what you guys hated about it? Sounds to me that the point was the exact opposite as what you claim above.

Note: Ironically, had they raised taxes $x to cover the uninsured and gave you a credit of $x for having insurance, the net result what have been the same and there would have been absolutely no constitutional issues whatsoever.


Ever been to the ER in El Paso?

And what does that have to do with Obamacare? Obamacare sure didn't bring them to the emergency room. The idea was to get those people out of the emergency room.


In Tx Medicaid buys IPods for "prenadal" care. WTF? Pays for the mother's gym membership ect.

I would bet anything that if there is any truth to this it is a very limited practice with some type of medical justification (even if that justification seems absurd to you and me).

Either way, again this is medicaid which means it has nothing to do with Obamacare. I'd suggest talking to your nice folks in Texas about this rather than trying to relate it to Obamacare.


Which results in stupid ****s like me that work have to pay for them.

Exactly. You pay for them with higher hospital bills to cover the uninsured who can't pay their bills.

You inadvertently made one of the best pro-Obamacare posts I've seen in a while.

[olevetonahill]

And what does that have to do with Obamacare? Obamacare sure didn't bring them to the emergency room. The idea was to get those people out of the emergency room.



I would bet anything that if there is any truth to this it is a very limited practice with some type of medical justification (even if that justification seems absurd to you and me).

Either way, again this is medicaid which means it has nothing to do with Obamacare.

I like how you make us stick to the thread topic. Good jorb.

[jkjsooner]

I like how you make us stick to the thread topic. Good jorb.

Well, he started the post out as "Obamacare=" so apparently he was trying to stick to the topic.

[cleller]

Don't know about the ipods in Texas, but I saw this story about Texas racking up more Medicaid costs than the other 49 states combined in dental payments. Free braces thru medicaid.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/investigates/medicaid-149603085.html