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View Full Version : Siblings, Nature, and Nurture



cleller
6/7/2012, 06:40 PM
For many years I've had the nature vs nurture debate with family and friends. I've always maintained that one's personality, etc, is something like 75% nature, and 25 nurture. Lots of disagreement on the topic.

I wanted to add a twist to it. As we all know sometimes siblings can be very different, or sometimes they can be pretty similar in disposition. My idea is that siblings that resemble each other might be more likely to be similar; siblings that don't resemble each other more likely to be dissimilar.

Here's my case history. I have two older half- brothers, they are 13 and 15 years older. I have one "regular" brother who is 1 year older. Lets call the half brothers #1 and #2, full brother #3, I'm #4. With these two older half-brothers, when brother #3 came along, he was quite a novelty. #1 and #2 were able to talk my parents into letting them raise him in a pen in the backyard. By the time I came along, they had tired of the experiment, and things followed a more traditional path. I don't really resemble brother #3, and our personalities are very different. I do rather resemble #2, and our personalities are similar.

To me, this would support the nature over nurture theory. Do you have siblings that could shed light on this? i.e.: do your have a sibling that looks AND acts different, or a sibling that looks AND acts similar?

8timechamps
6/7/2012, 08:57 PM
Interesting topic.

I have two (older) siblings (a brother and a sister), and I am very similar to my older sister (the oldest of the group), and just about as different as I can be from my brother. The weird thing is that my sister and I were raised in different households. My folks divorced when I was about 6, and my sister lived/grew up in another state. Yet, we are very much the same. I lived/grew up with my brother, and we are complete opposites.

So, based on my own experience, I'd say nature wins the day.

I'd also be interested to know how birth order affects the outcome. Seems in your case, you are more like sibling #2 even though you are closer in age to #3.

Interesting.

olevetonahill
6/7/2012, 09:04 PM
I got 4 older sisters, I aint nuthin like them bitches :smiley_simmons:

3rdgensooner
6/7/2012, 09:22 PM
I have 3 siblings, all of us have very different personalities. We don't even look much like each other so, who knows, maybe mom was a vixen.

SCOUT
6/7/2012, 09:41 PM
I thought Randolph and Mortimer solved this already.

Viking Kitten
6/8/2012, 09:42 AM
I watched that with my 12-year-old son just about a month ago. (I made him cover his eyes when JLC took her top off. Poor kid.) When it was over, he said, "Mom...why were all the really good movies made in the 80s?"

I have done my job as a parent.

Back on topic, my kids look almost identical and act nothing alike.

Ton Loc
6/8/2012, 09:46 AM
Nature is at least 75%, but your parents/family can still screw you up with their paltry 25%.

KantoSooner
6/8/2012, 10:00 AM
E. O. Wilson also has written a bit on this topic.

Fraggle145
6/8/2012, 11:15 AM
My brother and I have been mistaken for identical twins. And we are nothing alike personality-wise.

The whole nature vs. nurture thing is kinda not real. Its a combination of evolution and development, which is sort of the same but different. Some stuff becomes hardwired - actually most humans for the most part have the same genes. We just have different forms of them (alleles) or they are differentially expressed during development.

soonerbrat
6/8/2012, 11:45 AM
Looks-wise, you can definitely tell my kids are siblings, but they are pretty different personality-wise. you also have to remember that each child is nurtured differently too. your first child is an only child until the 2nd one is born but the 2nd one is never an only child...and as much as we try not to, we do treat each child differently.

me personally, I'm an only child, so I can't comment

KantoSooner
6/8/2012, 11:47 AM
I think of the nature part as being an innate tendency to be 'X'. After that your physical and social environment determine those tendencies are manifested.

Example: you might have genes to grow to 6'2". If you're malnourished, you don't get there, though.

Likewise, a genetic predisposition to alcoholism might go unrealized in a strict muslim. Or a tendency to be left handed can be overcome in societies that frown on lefties.

3rdgensooner
6/8/2012, 06:38 PM
The whole nature vs. nurture thing is kinda not real. Its a combination of evolution and development, which is sort of the same but different.


I think of the nature part as being an innate tendency to be 'X'. After that your physical and social environment determine those tendencies are manifested.


Babies are born with a temperament. If you've ever observed newborns in a hospital nursery, you'd know this. So there is certainly a nature aspect to personality.

hawaii 5-0
6/8/2012, 07:11 PM
I think smoking stunted my growth.

Interesting premise.

5-0

BigTip
6/10/2012, 11:03 AM
I use to say we were products of our environments, until I had two boys, both as different as night and day. Now I am a "it's genetics" guy. I would agree with the 75/25 mix You are predetermined to be a certain way, but with strong enough operant conditioning, it can be modified.

SanJoaquinSooner
6/10/2012, 01:46 PM
Both environment and genetic main effects, as well as an environment/genetic interaction, affect one's personality. As far as percentages go, I would speculate there's quite a bit of variation from person to person.

Tulsa_Fireman
6/10/2012, 02:52 PM
Everyone's wrong.

Your personality is dictated by THE STARS.

olevetonahill
6/10/2012, 03:17 PM
Everyone's wrong.

Your personality is dictated by THE STARS.

Hollywood aint got **** to do with it. I never watch any of those called stars

Tulsa_Fireman
6/10/2012, 03:35 PM
No, no, no.

Horoscopes.

As an Aquarius I am destined to be handsome and witty with a big weiner. I am also trained in the mystical ninja arts from birth.

Chuck Bao
6/10/2012, 07:17 PM
I don't know what went wrong with me. But, I was making purple mushroom works of art even before I was aged 5.

Fraggle145
6/10/2012, 07:33 PM
Babies are born with a temperament. If you've ever observed newborns in a hospital nursery, you'd know this. So there is certainly a nature aspect to personality.

I dont disagree that newborns have different temperaments, I know from personal experience of having a newborn. And I dont disagree that genes can play a role in personality. However, newborns have already experienced nurture for 9 months in the womb that have definite effects on development.

SicEmBaylor
6/10/2012, 08:20 PM
I have one sister, 8 years younger. We look nothing alike and our personalities are virtually opposite.

olevetonahill
6/10/2012, 08:28 PM
I have one sister, 8 years younger. We look nothing alike and are personalities are virtually opposite.

What? Shes Manly?

SanJoaquinSooner
6/10/2012, 09:45 PM
I have one sister, 8 years younger. We look nothing alike and are personalities are virtually opposite.

Do either of you look like the Maytag repairman?

3rdgensooner
6/10/2012, 10:24 PM
The whole nature vs. nurture thing is kinda not real. Its a combination of evolution and development, which is sort of the same but different.


I dont disagree that newborns have different temperaments, I know from personal experience of having a newborn. And I dont disagree that genes can play a role in personality. However, newborns have already experienced nurture for 9 months in the womb that have definite effects on development.So you're kind of arguing with yourself about degrees of impact.

cleller
6/11/2012, 07:26 AM
Do either of you look like the Maytag repairman?

Cruel, but so well timed.

Tulsa_Fireman
6/11/2012, 08:32 AM
She has a penis?

Fraggle145
6/11/2012, 09:11 AM
What? Shes Manly?

Heh.

Fraggle145
6/11/2012, 09:16 AM
So you're kind of arguing with yourself about degrees of impact. Not really. I'm just using different terms. The Nature vs. Nurture thing isnt really real. Personality just like the majority of other individual phenotypic traits is a combination of evolution and development. Its difficult to know the impact of 9 months of development in the womb on personality because we cant examine personality without it. Maternal effects are a beyonce.

yermom
6/11/2012, 10:37 AM
i've known multiple sets of identical twins growing up. they were generally fairly different in personality

olevetonahill
6/11/2012, 10:43 AM
i've known multiple sets of identical twins growing up. they were generally fairly different in personality
Had a set of identical twins once, They were both pretty kinky

SanJoaquinSooner
6/11/2012, 12:04 PM
Had a set of identical twins once, They were both pretty kinky

But were they nurturing?

C&CDean
6/11/2012, 12:06 PM
If they ****ed olevet they were blind, deaf, dumb... and maybe nurtured.

badger
6/11/2012, 12:26 PM
One funny thing about siblings I've read about is that the younger one who has always had to work harder to keep up with the taller, stronger, older siblings, will be the best in the long run since they've had to work harder their entire life.

I have no doubt that would have been true with my brother and I if we had similar talents and such... but, he's a boy and I'm a girl, he science-ie and I'm not, so there you go. However, in comparable things --- sports awards, GPA, etc., I was beating him.

Why? Because I made it a goal to :)

olevetonahill
6/11/2012, 12:27 PM
If they ****ed olevet they were blind, deaf, dumb... and maybe nurtured.
Said they was Kinky

cleller
6/11/2012, 02:46 PM
One funny thing about siblings I've read about is that the younger one who has always had to work harder to keep up with the taller, stronger, older siblings, will be the best in the long run since they've had to work harder their entire life.



As the baby of the family, I find this very true.

My brothers are all good hard-working men, but as a kid, I would do anything to make a buck. Worked constantly from about 14 on. I did flame out sooner though....

C&CDean
6/11/2012, 03:00 PM
Nature/nurture? It doesn't really matter. Every kid/person is different.

My oldest; who spent his entire life being raised by me, is the epitomy of his POS mother. Even looks like her.

My second son? He was raised primarily by his mother, and he's the spittin' image of his POS dad (me). Same mannerisms, same values, same pretty much everything. He even dropped out of school just like I did, and now he's got kids and has turned his life around and owns his own company and is doing very well.

My third son? Must be from the milk/mail man. Nothing at all like either of us. Marches to the beat of his own drummer.

My fourth son? Step-son. Raised by me since he was 4 (22 now). He's the epitome of his POS father. Harder working, better person overall, but still has a lot of traits his dad has.

My fifth son? Step-son. Raised by me since he was 2 (19 now). Nothing like either of his parents at all, or me. Great kid, pleasure to be around, very grounded.

I guess after typing all this I tend to be more in the "nature" crowd.

KantoSooner
6/11/2012, 03:09 PM
The more work that is done on the topic, the more behavioral science types are understanding that nature is a larger and larger element than previously accepted.

Once you understand this, and understand that some quantum of selfishness can not be loved or taught out of people, the more you realize the absolute folly of leftist politics with it's emphasis on creating the New Soviet Man (or modern equivalent).

Oh, and my daughter is smart, pretty, athletic, an excellent linguist and a wonderful person all around. It is obvious that these traits came from her father's side. Genetically.

KantoSooner
6/11/2012, 03:43 PM
And to clarify, Fraggle, I'm using 'nature' as a stand in for 'genetic' vs. 'nurture' being 'environmental'.
And, yes, in utero environmental effects are understood to do alot more to messing with which portions of an infants genes express themselves than was previously appreciated. I'm not equipped to go into that, however, without simply quoting others.

cleller
6/11/2012, 04:29 PM
Nature/nurture? It doesn't really matter. Every kid/person is different.

My oldest; who spent his entire life being raised by me, is the epitomy of his POS mother. Even looks like her.

My second son? He was raised primarily by his mother, and he's the spittin' image of his POS dad (me). Same mannerisms, same values, same pretty much everything. He even dropped out of school just like I did, and now he's got kids and has turned his life around and owns his own company and is doing very well.

My third son? Must be from the milk/mail man. Nothing at all like either of us. Marches to the beat of his own drummer.

My fourth son? Step-son. Raised by me since he was 4 (22 now). He's the epitome of his POS father. Harder working, better person overall, but still has a lot of traits his dad has.

My fifth son? Step-son. Raised by me since he was 2 (19 now). Nothing like either of his parents at all, or me. Great kid, pleasure to be around, very grounded.

I guess after typing all this I tend to be more in the "nature" crowd.

I think most folks with multiple kids would lean toward the "nature" side of the issue, seeing how differently some kids respond to similar situations, discipline.

My hat's off to you on the step-sons. I've always thought that would be tough undertaking, required lots of patience and resolve. I imagine being a step-mom to girls might be even tougher.

8timechamps
6/11/2012, 08:34 PM
I think most folks with multiple kids would lean toward the "nature" side of the issue, seeing how differently some kids respond to similar situations, discipline.

My hat's off to you on the step-sons. I've always thought that would be tough undertaking, required lots of patience and resolve. I imagine being a step-mom to girls might be even tougher.

I married when I was much too young (23). The girl I married had a one and a half year old son. I knew as soon as I started dating her seriously, that I would marry her. Not because of some heart felt romantic vibe, but because I couldn't imagine being in this child's life and disappearing some day. Anyway, he has never known anyone else as "dad" but me. His mother and I divorced almost 10 years ago, but I have treated him just like my biological son. In my eyes, there is no difference.

That was a long back story to my point, but what I am getting at is that it really depends on the age of the kids. In my case (and apparently Dean's), the kids were young. I had the benefit of the biological father not being in the picture. I'm sure it's tougher if he is, especially if he's a loser. I have no idea what it would be like with a step-daughter, although I can imagine it would be tough. My girlfriend (of almost 7 years) had adopted my boys (not literally), and it has worked out very well. But in a father/step-daughter situation, there's a whole new set of dynamics.

Scott D
6/12/2012, 12:12 PM
One funny thing about siblings I've read about is that the younger one who has always had to work harder to keep up with the taller, stronger, older siblings, will be the best in the long run since they've had to work harder their entire life.

I have no doubt that would have been true with my brother and I if we had similar talents and such... but, he's a boy and I'm a girl, he science-ie and I'm not, so there you go. However, in comparable things --- sports awards, GPA, etc., I was beating him.

Why? Because I made it a goal to :)

explain why my brother is lazy

badger
6/12/2012, 01:08 PM
explain why my brother is lazy

Because you're too good at stuff.

A younger sibling can't have its little hopes and dreams crushed. Younger bro or younger sis needs to cling to even just a remote possibility of success.

If you are constantly beating your younger brother in Horse five letters to none, eventually your little bro will stop trying.

If you are constantly getting straight As on your report card while your younger brother is lucky to get a few Bs, eventually your little bro won't even try to compete grade-wise with you.

Looking back at all the times my brother never let me win at anything and desperately tried to crush me in sports, I think it was because he, himself, was the shortest, smallest, slowest boy in his class and needed to beat somebody at something, even if that somebody was his younger, even shorter, even smaller sister.

But... he was never good enough to completely crush me. So, I kept at it.

Maybe, secretly, he didn't want me to lose 5-nil in horse and purposely missed a few shots here and there. If he did, he was pretty good actor, and if so, kudos for keeping little sis's hope alive :D