Open Letter to My Students: No, You Cannot be a Professor

[badger]

Interesting read. (http://northwesthistory.blogspot.com/2011/11/open-letter-to-my-students-no-you.html)

Another interesting read on the topic:

Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time (http://www.economist.com/node/17723223)

It's right around this time of year that it's probably too late to warn fellow students: Getting a diploma is not the same as getting an education, and it is far from getting a job.

So, my warning and advice to those of you that it isn't too late for: If you are pursuing a diploma to get a job, make sure you are getting an education, not just a piece of paper.

Stuff like this is disheartening, because while I stopped at the bachelor's level of higher ed, I know how much work people that stayed in school longer for additional diplomas/education/job opportunities put in.

But, if you need some humor on the topic, there's always cartoons:

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd102111s.gif

PhD Cartoons. (http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php)

Thoughts? Is school becoming a big waste of time and money?

[yermom]

It's right around this time of year that it's probably too late to warn fellow students: Getting a diploma is not the same as getting an education, and it is far from getting a job.

So, my warning and advice to those of you that it isn't too late for: If you are pursuing a diploma to get a job, make sure you are getting an education, not just a piece of paper.

this is the thing to take from this. just like high school, if you just take the requirements and pass the tests, do the assignments, you may not actually learn anything important.

and a Ph.D. in Art History or History isn't a guarantee for a job.

now if you are in Engineering or Math or something...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Some truth to it -- do it for the education and the enjoyment.


But which flagship university will be first to do away with tenure track positions? I don't think so.

[BigTip]

Something that has always amazed me are fields of study that can lead to only one job, teaching others about that same subject. A class full of philosophy majors for example. "What are you going to do with your degree?" "Teach". But there is one teacher for those 20 people. What are the other 19 people going to do when the brightest student replaces the one teacher?

[yermom]

well, you can change subjects with grad school

also, if you have a skill in other areas, the subject of your degree is less important than the fact that you have one

[badger]

Something that has always amazed me are fields of study that can lead to only one job, teaching others about that same subject. A class full of philosophy majors for example. "What are you going to do with your degree?" "Teach". But there is one teacher for those 20 people. What are the other 19 people going to do when the brightest student replaces the one teacher?

And of course, you can't just settle with a bachelor's in philosophy in order to teach it either, of course. There's no philosophy courses in high school. So, you get your masters. And then you get your PhD. And then you have three degrees and zero jobs. :(

[Jacie]

also, if you have a skill in other areas, the subject of your degree is less important than the fact that you have one

The skill set required to earn any college degree translates into jobs beyond the title on the diploma. This is not true of jobs that require a technical, science, medical or law degree but there are still plenty of other fields where being able (and willing) to learn is the only real requirement.

[Fraggle145]

Some truth to it -- do it for the education and the enjoyment.


But which flagship university will be first to do away with tenure track positions? I don't think so.

Actually quite a few are starting to look into it. There are both good and bad things associated with this. North Carolina is one that I have heard of, they dont fire people but after a time (what that time is and what the qualifications for that are I have no idea) they have been known to suspend professors without pay.

[badger]

Actually quite a few are starting to look into it. There are both good and bad things associated with this. North Carolina is one that I have heard of, they dont fire people but after a time (what that time is and what the qualifications for that are I have no idea) they have been known to suspend professors without pay.

I've heard that some places don't replace leaving tenured positions with new tenured ones as money disappears (into football programs, yes).

When you think about it, it makes economic sense:

$100,000: Tenured professor that teaches a class only because he has to, has office hours only because he has to and cannot be fired without cause.
$50,000: Associate/assistant professor that teaches multiple classes because students can't get into the tenured professor class and needs to keep moving toward graduation. Also only has office hours because he has to. Can be let go (and denied tenure!) at will.
$20,000: Grad student "teaching assistant" that teaches the students in every professor's class because they want to make a good impression with the university that they work hard and are driven to have that elusive full time (and maybe tenure track???) job, is in the office regularly because it's a convenient on-campus location to study and mingle with leaders in their college/department, easy to fire.

So... do you get your classes taught by $100k dudes that are just there to get grants, research and ignore the students as much as possible, $50k dudes that you can hold onto as long as they're fooled into thinking tenure might one day be a possibility, or $20k dudes that are readily available, easily expendable and naive enough to do all of the work that older, wiser academics won't?

[Fraggle145]

I've heard that some places don't replace leaving tenured positions with new tenured ones as money disappears (into football programs, yes).

When you think about it, it makes economic sense:

$100,000: Tenured professor that teaches a class only because he has to, has office hours only because he has to and cannot be fired without cause.
$50,000: Associate/assistant professor that teaches multiple classes because students can't get into the tenured professor class and needs to keep moving toward graduation. Also only has office hours because he has to. Can be let go (and denied tenure!) at will.
$20,000: Grad student "teaching assistant" that teaches the students in every professor's class because they want to make a good impression with the university that they work hard and are driven to have that elusive full time (and maybe tenure track???) job, is in the office regularly because it's a convenient on-campus location to study and mingle with leaders in their college/department, easy to fire.

So... do you get your classes taught by $100k dudes that are just there to get grants, research and ignore the students as much as possible, $50k dudes that you can hold onto as long as they're fooled into thinking tenure might one day be a possibility, or $20k dudes that are readily available, easily expendable and naive enough to do all of the work that older, wiser academics won't?

All those are significant problems with the system. But it also depends on what the focus of the university is... Is it research like say OU or is more teaching based like a liberal arts school where the 100K dudes make their bread and butter teaching? They are night and day different. and the liberal arts schools dont have as many TAs (or they are undergrads) as they are teaching not researching and so not training grad students.

Either way I will be one of the poor souls looking for one of these jobs soon. FML.

[C&CDean]

School is a funny thing to me. I see people hock their houses to pay for their kids' schooling, and I see people owing tens-of-thousands of dollars in student loans, and it makes me laugh. For what? Seriously? I can tell you "for what" on my degrees:

I possess one (1) high school credit. That's right, 1. It was in Physical Education, and I got a D. I never darkened the door of a classroom from the first semester of my freshman year in high school until I was 27 years old. The VA sent me a letter and said if I didn't use my GI Bill I was gonna lose it. Had no clue, but went to Pima Community College and enrolled in Tennis, Golf, Health, and History of Indians of North America. Got a monthly check from the VA, and life was good.

The second semester I took Psych 101, Writing 101, and signed up for a basic Chemistry course that I ended up dropping because the instructor started the first day of class by writing some algebraic equation on the board and said "if you don't understand this you don't belong in this class." I left and enrolled in another Psych course.

School was excrutiatingly easy when I actually showed up for class, payed attention, and did the assignments.

After a year or so I get a letter from the VA stating I had to claim a major. I didn't have a clue what that meant. I asked a fellow student and she said "go see an advisor" and I go "wtf is that?" She tells me and I go. Psychology. That lasted for about a year, and I decided to change my major to Management, since my employer was willing to kick in, I went that route.

I get to Oklahoma, and my manager goes "I ain't paying for a degree in Management, but I will pay for a degree in Training & Development or Adult Ed." I go "ok, and changed majors again and enrolled at UCO. Got my BS in T&D/Adult Ed in 1996 at the age of 39.

After a year or so I go "maybe I wanna get a Masters" and checked into it. When I found out I only had to complete 30-something hours I go "in." My company picked up every dime - including my graduation application and my cap and gown. Even gave me a nice watch for a graduation present. Got my MHR in 2000 at age 43.

What does all this have to do with anything? Nothing really. Why did I decide to go to school? For one simple reason: my mom and dad were disappointed because I didn't graduate from high school. I wanted them to see my walk down the aisle and pick up a sheep skin. I did. Twice. Never did it for a better job. Never did it because I thought it would get me ahead. Never did it for any other reason than that I realized I was smart enough, and I wanted to make my parents proud. Also, mom and dad never spent a dime on my education, and neither did I. Not. A. Dime.

The End.

[Chuck Bao]

I went to the university because I was expected to. My employer was supposed to pay for my tuition, but I won a scholarship for free four-year tuition, room & board, books, meal tickets, scholarship trips, etc. So, my employer paid for my gas to drive from the university to work each day.

I chose Baylor for a masters degree because it was the cheapest private university in the US at that time. I got a TA gig there which helped pay for my costs. So, my total tertiary education cost less than $10,000, which was financed by my grandparents. You got me beat, Dean, but I still think I came out relatively well.

Baylor sent me to Hong Kong to teach at Hong Kong Baptist University on a one-year teaching exchange fellowship. Basically, Baylor would send a master degree graduate to HKBU to teach and in exchange offer a full scholarship to a HKBU graduate to get his/her masters degrees at Baylor.

I did not do well teaching. I did not have sufficient patience to deal with a bunch of whiny, spoiled brats.

I thought that I could teach at a university after retiring from 20+ years in the stock market. I still do not have the patience.

[GDC]

I was under the impression that many with philosophy degrees apply to law school.

Medical schools are seeking more diversity in the backgrounds of their applicants as well, everything from music majors to MBAs.

[Midtowner]

I've heard that some places don't replace leaving tenured positions with new tenured ones as money disappears (into football programs, yes).

When you think about it, it makes economic sense:

$100,000: Tenured professor that teaches a class only because he has to, has office hours only because he has to and cannot be fired without cause.
$50,000: Associate/assistant professor that teaches multiple classes because students can't get into the tenured professor class and needs to keep moving toward graduation. Also only has office hours because he has to. Can be let go (and denied tenure!) at will.
$20,000: Grad student "teaching assistant" that teaches the students in every professor's class because they want to make a good impression with the university that they work hard and are driven to have that elusive full time (and maybe tenure track???) job, is in the office regularly because it's a convenient on-campus location to study and mingle with leaders in their college/department, easy to fire.

So... do you get your classes taught by $100k dudes that are just there to get grants, research and ignore the students as much as possible, $50k dudes that you can hold onto as long as they're fooled into thinking tenure might one day be a possibility, or $20k dudes that are readily available, easily expendable and naive enough to do all of the work that older, wiser academics won't?

You must've gone to a 'real' school. I went to UCO, classes were about 30-35 students and all taught by real live Post Hole Diggers. Tuition was dirt cheap too compared to OU/OSU. For an undergrad degree, I'm not sure why some folks spend the big bucks. Got me into grad school just the same. Grad schools (well law schools at least) don't tend to even consider where your undergrad is from as long as your GPA and LSAT are acceptable.

[Fraggle145]

I funded my own BS with a National merit scholarship. I got an EPA fellowship for my MS. Unfortunately it ran out 6 months before I was finished. So I picked up some loans there. PhD has been largely paid for, but I have had some student loans to pay for various things. I'm worse off than Chuck but I should hopefully be okay once I start making a reasonable wage... But that's a big if, starting witha post-doc.

[Frozen Sooner]

I was under the impression that many with philosophy degrees apply to law school.

They do, but in somewhat of a contradiction to what Midtown said above, it's much tougher to get in with a philosophy degree (or poli sci degree) than with others, mainly because law schools are swamped with them.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

School is a funny thing to me. I see people hock their houses to pay for their kids' schooling, and I see people owing tens-of-thousands of dollars in student loans, and it makes me laugh. For what? Seriously? I can tell you "for what" on my degrees:

I possess one (1) high school credit. That's right, 1. It was in Physical Education, and I got a D. I never darkened the door of a classroom from the first semester of my freshman year in high school until I was 27 years old. The VA sent me a letter and said if I didn't use my GI Bill I was gonna lose it. Had no clue, but went to Pima Community College and enrolled in Tennis, Golf, Health, and History of Indians of North America. Got a monthly check from the VA, and life was good.

The second semester I took Psych 101, Writing 101, and signed up for a basic Chemistry course that I ended up dropping because the instructor started the first day of class by writing some algebraic equation on the board and said "if you don't understand this you don't belong in this class." I left and enrolled in another Psych course.

School was excrutiatingly easy when I actually showed up for class, payed attention, and did the assignments.

After a year or so I get a letter from the VA stating I had to claim a major. I didn't have a clue what that meant. I asked a fellow student and she said "go see an advisor" and I go "wtf is that?" She tells me and I go. Psychology. That lasted for about a year, and I decided to change my major to Management, since my employer was willing to kick in, I went that route.

I get to Oklahoma, and my manager goes "I ain't paying for a degree in Management, but I will pay for a degree in Training & Development or Adult Ed." I go "ok, and changed majors again and enrolled at UCO. Got my BS in T&D/Adult Ed in 1996 at the age of 39.

After a year or so I go "maybe I wanna get a Masters" and checked into it. When I found out I only had to complete 30-something hours I go "in." My company picked up every dime - including my graduation application and my cap and gown. Even gave me a nice watch for a graduation present. Got my MHR in 2000 at age 43.

What does all this have to do with anything? Nothing really. Why did I decide to go to school? For one simple reason: my mom and dad were disappointed because I didn't graduate from high school. I wanted them to see my walk down the aisle and pick up a sheep skin. I did. Twice. Never did it for a better job. Never did it because I thought it would get me ahead. Never did it for any other reason than that I realized I was smart enough, and I wanted to make my parents proud. Also, mom and dad never spent a dime on my education, and neither did I. Not. A. Dime.

The End.

Well Dean, I just don't know where to start.

[Jacie]

Also, mom and dad never spent a dime on my education, and neither did I. Not. A. Dime.

Neither you or your parents pay taxes? Amazing! How do you do it?