Is WVU a Storied Program?

[cccasooner2]

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/50008/wvu-to-face-bama-in-atlanta-in-2014

"Alabama and West Virginia will meet for the first time when the two storied football programs open the 2014 season in the Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game in Atlanta, bowl officials announced Thursday."



This is the first time I have heard WVU's football program referred to as storied. Anyone got any ideas where I missed something?

[SoonerPride]

Some former couches think so.

[badger]

15 conference titles, 11 consensus All Americans and five Heisman Trophy... candidates. :P

Not anything against the couch burners (yet), but they have a ways to go before becoming storied. But they're not terrible.

[EatLeadCommie]

Not really...they're kind of like Arizona State. A history of winning (at least in modern times) with no national championships. Bobby Bowden put them on the national map.

[cccasooner2]

15 conference titles, 11 consensus All Americans and five Heisman Trophy... candidates. :P

Ahh, that does make a difference, thanks.

[badger]

I should do daily polls, not just twice weekly ones. That way I could ask you all how you REALLY feel about "stories" West Virginia. :P

[kbsooner21]

Some former couches think so.

Beat me to it :D

[oudanny]

If your story only goes back 20 years.

[cleller]

Nah, you gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Wishboned]

If your story only goes back 20 years.

That would make them a short story program.

[SoonerNomad]

Is the greatest day in West Virginia football history the Fiest Bowl where they whooped our butts? I guess I don't know enough about the whole Mountaineer story.

[8timechamps]

WVU is "storied" much in the way OSU is "storied".

[OU_Sooners75]

Are they as storied as OU, USC, Bama, ND, or Michigan? No.

But they have a proud history for sure.



No 22 in win percentage all time: 701-457-45 (0.601)
They are one of 14 programs with at least 700 wins all time.
15 conference titles (out of only 40 years in a conference)
31 bowl games (14-17-0)
Finished rank 19 times

That is better than Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, Clemson, BYU, Pittsburgh, UCLA, Wisconsin, and a quite a few others.

[OU_Sooners75]

Not really...they're kind of like Arizona State. A history of winning (at least in modern times) with no national championships. Bobby Bowden put them on the national map.

Lets compare the two shall we?

Win Percentage all time:
ASU: 562-356-24 (0.609)
WVU: 701-457-45 (0.601)
Advantage: ASU

Wins:
ASU: 562
WVU: 701
Advantage WVU

Bowl Games:
ASU: 25
WVU: 31
Advantage: WVU

Bowl Record:
ASU: 12-12-1 (0.500)
WVU: 14-17 (0.452)
Advantage: ASU

Conference Titles (major college division only):
ASU: 10
WVU: 15
Advantage: WVU

Kind of like ASU? Yes. But also with a slightly better history than Arizona State.

[mainline13]

Is the greatest day in West Virginia football history the Fiest Bowl where they whooped our butts? I guess I don't know enough about the whole Mountaineer story.

It might be when they beat us in Norman behind Jeff Hostetler.

[picasso]

Yes, there are all kinds of stories coming out of WV.

[SoonerMarkVA]

Are they as storied as OU, USC, Bama, ND, or Michigan? No.

But they have a proud history for sure.



No 22 in win percentage all time: 701-457-45 (0.601)
They are one of 14 programs with at least 700 wins all time.
15 conference titles (out of only 40 years in a conference)
31 bowl games (14-17-0)
Finished rank 19 times

That is better than Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, Clemson, BYU, Pittsburgh, UCLA, Wisconsin, and a quite a few others.

Nice post. WVU comes into the XII behind OU and ut, but well ahead of everyone else, including everyone who left save NU (who is quickly falling away from relevance). Getting into XII should help them achieve greater heights.

So, I wouldn't say "storied", but worthy of respect.

[BoulderSooner79]

I've heard a few stories about them.

[8timechamps]

Nice post. WVU comes into the XII behind OU and ut, but well ahead of everyone else, including everyone who left save NU (who is quickly falling away from relevance). Getting into XII should help them achieve greater heights.

So, I wouldn't say "storied", but worthy of respect.

That brings up a good question...can teams like Nebraska (Notre Dame, USC, Alabama...even Oklahoma) ever really become irrelevant? I've never really thought about it, but now that I am, I guess teams like that can become nationally irrelevant.

Thoughts?

[OU_Sooners75]

That brings up a good question...can teams like Nebraska (Notre Dame, USC, Alabama...even Oklahoma) ever really become irrelevant? I've never really thought about it, but now that I am, I guess teams like that can become nationally irrelevant.

Thoughts?

ND has been nationally irrelevant for quite some time.

They have a big following yes, only because they are the catholic flagship university in this nation.

[8timechamps]

ND has been nationally irrelevant for quite some time.

They have a big following yes, only because they are the catholic flagship university in this nation.

They've been irrelevant in terms of deciding a national champion...and they haven't really had a good team in South Bend forever...still, which game on our schedule is getting most of the national attention? I know it has a lot to do with two storied programs playing, but there is still a big draw for ND (outside of the ND fan base).

Interesting.

[Jacie]

Oklahoma owes the domers some major ***-kicking. Get it done this time, Bob.

[SoonerNomad]

Notre Dame is the right coach away from being relevant again? They still don't have him.

Oklahoma looked irrelevant for a decade until Coach Stoops arrived. Florida was irrelevant before Coach Spurrier and Coach Meyer. Coach Stoops at Notre Dame would change the attitude and atmosphere in about 5 seconds. Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, and a couple others could go to Notre Dame and get them back on the national championship contending level in no time.

[agoo758]

Notre Dame is the right coach away from being relevant again? They still don't have him.



I disagree. Kelly is a great coach, but good luck swaying 18 year olds to South Bend when they could be going to Columbus, Ann Arbor, or Chicago instead. Add the rigid academic and religious culture, and the fact that their once big advantage of being on TV every week is no longer unique for them, and you have yourself quite an uphill climb to attract elite players.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Lets compare the two shall we?

Win Percentage all time:
ASU: 562-356-24 (0.609)
WVU: 701-457-45 (0.601)
Advantage: ASU

Wins:
ASU: 562
WVU: 701
Advantage WVU

Bowl Games:
ASU: 25
WVU: 31
Advantage: WVU

Bowl Record:
ASU: 12-12-1 (0.500)
WVU: 14-17 (0.452)
Advantage: ASU

Conference Titles (major college division only):
ASU: 10
WVU: 15
Advantage: WVU

Kind of like ASU? Yes. But also with a slightly better history than Arizona State.

I would give ASU the advantage in bowl games as well. Based on their overall records I assume that ASU has been playing for considerably fewer years and only have six less bowl games. %wise I would guess they've been to bowls more consistently.

[Salt City Sooner]

That brings up a good question...can teams like Nebraska (Notre Dame, USC, Alabama...even Oklahoma) ever really become irrelevant? I've never really thought about it, but now that I am, I guess teams like that can become nationally irrelevant.

Thoughts?
Check out Minnesota. I know it's hard to think of them in that class now, but from 1934 to 1960, they won 6 NC's, so I'd say that there was a time when they were in that same level as the other teams mentioned. Thing is, after that last NC in '60, they have one title (Big 10 champs in '67) to their credit. Since '67, they've finished under .500 26 times & have one 10 win season (Mason in '03).

[8timechamps]

Check out Minnesota. I know it's hard to think of them in that class now, but from 1934 to 1960, they won 6 NC's, so I'd say that there was a time when they were in that same level as the other teams mentioned. Thing is, after that last NC in '60, they have one title (Big 10 champs in '67) to their credit. Since '67, they've finished under .500 26 times & have one 10 win season (Mason in '03).

That is a good point, but does 25 years of relevance really equal what the big names carry on their shoulder? I would say Minnesota has a proud history, but not quite "storied". I think Minnesota falls just below the level of the big names. Another problem with Minnesota is the poor nonperformance since 67 until now. Did they stay down too long to keep their spot on the big boy shelf of relevance? If so, Is there a length of time that can drop you from the elite list, and what is it?

I don't have a real opinion on these things one way, or the other. Just wanted to discuss and see what others where thinking.

[OUmillenium]

Is the greatest day in West Virginia football history the Fiest Bowl where they whooped our butts? I guess I don't know enough about the whole Mountaineer story.

That was my thinking...If their greatest win is over a 2 loss OU team (2 right?) then "storied" they are not.

Where would you rank their program all time?

What makes for "storied"? Top 10 of all time? Top 20?

OU, Notre Dame, Alabama

Texas, Michigan, Ohio State

Penn State, Miami, Florida St, Florida

Arkansas, UCLA, SUC

How far do you go? Are they even better or more storied than Texas A&M, Tennessee,

[Salt City Sooner]

That is a good point, but does 25 years of relevance really equal what the big names carry on their shoulder? I would say Minnesota has a proud history, but not quiet "storied". I think Minnesota falls just below the level of the big names. Another problem with Minnesota is the poor nonperformance since 67 until now. Did they stay down too long to keep their spot on the big boy shelf of relevance? If so, Is there a length of time that can drop you from the elite list, and what is it?

I don't have a real opinion on these things on way, or the other. Just wanted to discuss and see what others where thinking.
They're obviously not in the relevant category, & haven't been for a long time. I was just pointing out that there was a time that they definitely belonged in that discussion every bit as much as any other team, & yet, they faded away. They & NU certainly have some differences, but they have some noticeable similarities as well.

Their first & last NC's were 27 seasons apart.

Believe it or not, pre-Devaney NU was as bad as the Gophers are now. From '41 to '61 (year before Devaney's arrival), NU posted 17 losing seasons.

Neither is anywhere near what one would call a fertile recruiting base in today's landscape.

They've been overall quite similar (only in reverse, if that makes sense) with the big difference being that Minnesota had its heyday early, & then gradually fell off the map while NU was horrible post-Bible/pre Devaney, then they hit their zenith under Bob & Tom, & now they've been in a noticeable decline since, with a couple of exceptions, very similar to Minny right after they won their last NC (respectable, but noticeably slipping from '61 to '67, their last title). The Huskers won their last NC in '97, won the league in '99, & for all intents & purposes, haven't won a thing since, even though they managed to get in the NCG in '01 (didn't even win their division of the B12 that year). They've been semi-respectable under Pelini so they've got that going for them, but even then they haven't been anything close to what I'd call elite. The last time they lost less than 4 games was 2003 when Solich was still there.

[Sooner91ATL]

We will be hard pressed to go to Morgantown and get a W this year unless we have learned how to defend against a Robert Griffin-like talent with two 1000 yard receivers on board. That's the current story, regardless of glory days.

[BigTip]

That brings up a good question...can teams like Nebraska (Notre Dame, USC, Alabama...even Oklahoma) ever really become irrelevant? I've never really thought about it, but now that I am, I guess teams like that can become nationally irrelevant.

Thoughts?

Things change.

Harvard and Yale use to play "The Game". All the headlines were about them. This was "real" football.

Things change.

[OU_Sooners75]

They've been irrelevant in terms of deciding a national champion...and they haven't really had a good team in South Bend forever...still, which game on our schedule is getting most of the national attention? I know it has a lot to do with two storied programs playing, but there is still a big draw for ND (outside of the ND fan base).

Interesting.

Its getting a lot of attention because:
1. OU owes Notre Dame badly
2. ND is suppose to be pretty good this year.
3. ND is the toughest nonconference team on our schedule.
4. ND has a big following....doesn't mean they are relevant.

[8timechamps]

Its getting a lot of attention because:
1. OU owes Notre Dame badly
2. ND is suppose to be pretty good this year.
3. ND is the toughest nonconference team on our schedule.
4. ND has a big following....doesn't mean they are relevant.

1. I can assure you that the feeling that "OU owes Notre Dame badly" is not drawing national attention to this game. Sooner fans share that sentiment, but the rest of the nation couldn't care less (other than wanting to see ND lose).

2. We hear that every year.

3. This is a big part of it. Also the fact that OU schedules at least one big OOC almost annually has drawn attention to the Sooners OOC games.

4. Again, I realize that ND is not relevant in deciding a national champion, however, they are still relevant.

I think the relevance they still have is because they are independent (and carry a huge fan base). They continue to be one of the big names in conference pick-ups, and command large numbers in the TV market (again...big following). Having a huge fanbase is one of the reasons they are still relevant.

[8timechamps]

Things change.

Harvard and Yale use to play "The Game". All the headlines were about them. This was "real" football.

Things change.

I know that's what it all boils down to. I guess we can only hope 75 years from now Oklahoma Football hasn't faded away to irrelevance. :D

[OU_Sooners75]

1. I can assure you that the feeling that "OU owes Notre Dame badly" is not drawing national attention to this game. Sooner fans share that sentiment, but the rest of the nation couldn't care less (other than wanting to see ND lose).

2. We hear that every year.

3. This is a big part of it. Also the fact that OU schedules at least one big OOC almost annually has drawn attention to the Sooners OOC games.

4. Again, I realize that ND is not relevant in deciding a national champion, however, they are still relevant.

I think the relevance they still have is because they are independent (and carry a huge fan base). They continue to be one of the big names in conference pick-ups, and command large numbers in the TV market (again...big following). Having a huge fanbase is one of the reasons they are still relevant.

I guess I measure relevance differently than you my friend.

I measure by success in wins and losses. If Notre Dame was a land grant college, like OU and many other Big 12 schools, they would be an after thought. There is only one reason they have a big following....religion.....ask BYU how it goes.

[OU_Sooners75]

Notre Dame is the right coach away from being relevant again? They still don't have him.

Oklahoma looked irrelevant for a decade until Coach Stoops arrived. Florida was irrelevant before Coach Spurrier and Coach Meyer. Coach Stoops at Notre Dame would change the attitude and atmosphere in about 5 seconds. Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, and a couple others could go to Notre Dame and get them back on the national championship contending level in no time.

I don't think they can.

Ty Willingham was a very good coach and perhaps the best one they had since Lou Holtz was there.

However, the changes made in CFB since Holtz left ND has really hampered ND and made them even more irrelevant. And no coach is really going to change that anytime soon, no matter what the coaches name is.

The biggest issue that is against ND isn't where they are located...but it is their religious requirements for their students. And couple that with the progressive view of our nations values (i.e. moving more away from a christian view to whatever we are going toward).

I do know that it doesn't help. Kids want their freedoms to do what they want when they get to college. Granted in sports they have some limitations, but they have a lot of freedoms at public schools, go to a religious school and some of those freedoms are cut away.

For ND to get back to being a national power in football one of two things have to happen:

1. The nation would need to transform back into a more religious family setting. or,
2. The Catholic Church would have to grant ND students a lot more leniency from their (the school's) agenda.

And as I see it, neither will be happening anytime soon. So ND will still have a tough time getting back to where they were in wins and losses back in the 1990s and before.

[8timechamps]

I guess I measure relevance differently than you my friend.

I measure by success in wins and losses. If Notre Dame was a land grant college, like OU and many other Big 12 schools, they would be an after thought. There is only one reason they have a big following....religion.....ask BYU how it goes.

I guess by relevant, I mean "in the discussion" as it relates to the overall landscape of college football. We can agree that Notre Dame has not been relevant on the field for a long time. And the only reason they are relevant in any CFB discussion is because of the size of their fanbase. There are probably 60-70 other programs that have had similar success (or lack of it) over the past decade that never get mentioned by any media outside of their immediate market.

Notre Dame is still the New York Yankees of college football...you either love 'em, or love to see 'em lose.

[8timechamps]

For ND to get back to being a national power in football one of two things have to happen:

1. The nation would need to transform back into a more religious family setting. or,
2. The Catholic Church would have to grant ND students a lot more leniency from their (the school's) agenda.



WINNAH!

[MyT Oklahoma]

Getting back to the original topic.

Storied compared to whom? Us? No.

But then they have also beaten us like a drum the last two meetings so who really cares? Let's just win the next time we play them.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

We will be hard pressed to go to Morgantown and get a W this year unless we have learned how to defend against a Robert Griffin-like talent with two 1000 yard receivers on board. That's the current story, regardless of glory days.

The defensive coordinator that always liked to utilize 3 linebackers regardless of the offensive scheme being faced is no longer at Oklahoma. The defensvie coordinator that started allowing Texas Tech 325 passing yards per game instead of 250 passing yards per game after Mike Stoops departed is no longer at Oklahoma. The defensive coordinator where Oklahoma started getting decisively beat sometimes for the first time in the Bob Stoops era is no longer at Oklahoma. That's the current story, regardless of the glory days.

[MI Sooner]

WINNAH!

What additional religious/moral restrictions does ND place on their students that other schools don't? When I was at OU in the late 90s, OU had comparable dorm visitation rules for females (at least for freshmen), and ND was way more lenient on drinking (actually condoning underage drinking in the dorms as long as parties were registered). I'm not sure how the schools compare in their treatment of other offences (drugs, et al).

Overall, I had many more compliance headaches my one year living on campus at OU than my ND friends did.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Typo. They meant "Steroid Program".



WV has one big win under their belt as far as I am concerned.

[BBQ Man]

WVU has only finished ranked in the top 25 twenty times in its history and its never finished above 5th!

[8timechamps]

What additional religious/moral restrictions does ND place on their students that other schools don't? When I was at OU in the late 90s, OU had comparable dorm visitation rules for females (at least for freshmen), and ND was way more lenient on drinking (actually condoning underage drinking in the dorms as long as parties were registered). I'm not sure how the schools compare in their treatment of other offences (drugs, et al).

Overall, I had many more compliance headaches my one year living on campus at OU than my ND friends did.

I think OU_75 was talking about academics (at least that's how I took it). It's no secret that eligibility has hindered Notre Dame's football recruiting efforts. There's been a cry from the fans for years for ND to drop acceptance standards, or make exceptions in an effort to get more elite prospects that struggle academically.

When I think of Notre Dame administration and the leaders of the Catholic Church, I don't think "mutually exclusive". Maybe I'm wrong.

[MI Sooner]

I don't think they can.

Ty Willingham was a very good coach and perhaps the best one they had since Lou Holtz was there.

However, the changes made in CFB since Holtz left ND has really hampered ND and made them even more irrelevant. And no coach is really going to change that anytime soon, no matter what the coaches name is.

The biggest issue that is against ND isn't where they are located...but it is their religious requirements for their students. And couple that with the progressive view of our nations values (i.e. moving more away from a christian view to whatever we are going toward).

I do know that it doesn't help. Kids want their freedoms to do what they want when they get to college. Granted in sports they have some limitations, but they have a lot of freedoms at public schools, go to a religious school and some of those freedoms are cut away.

For ND to get back to being a national power in football one of two things have to happen:

1. The nation would need to transform back into a more religious family setting. or,
2. The Catholic Church would have to grant ND students a lot more leniency from their (the school's) agenda.

And as I see it, neither will be happening anytime soon. So ND will still have a tough time getting back to where they were in wins and losses back in the 1990s and before.

The bolded language made me think it was more than academics. Holding yourself to a higher academic standard than other schools is a disadvantage (OU has benefited from the Big XII having lax eligibility standards). But I'd think that when ND is out-performed by Stanford and Northwestern numerous times over the years, they'd re-evaluate how much of a barrier to success high academic standards for players is (or maybe ND has even higher standards than Stanford and Northwestern).

[SteelClip49]

Are they as storied as OU, USC, Bama, ND, or Michigan? No.

But they have a proud history for sure.



No 22 in win percentage all time: 701-457-45 (0.601)
They are one of 14 programs with at least 700 wins all time.
15 conference titles (out of only 40 years in a conference)
31 bowl games (14-17-0)
Finished rank 19 times

That is better than Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, Clemson, BYU, Pittsburgh, UCLA, Wisconsin, and a quite a few others.

Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, Colorado, BYU, Clemson, Pittsburgh, UCLA each have a national title (Pitt with 2) and have all been relevant a lot longer than WVU.

West Virginia played for 1 national title in 1988, losing to Notre Dame. 1993 they had an outside shot at the NC but was obliterated by UF in the bowl game. 2007 was an almost opportunity for the national title but a late season loss to Pitt ended that. WVU has been good for a while and no it was not Bobby Bowden who got them on the map. It was Don Nehlen. Bobby Bowden was just a name when he was at WVU. Bobby Bowden didn't become Bobby Bowden until he got to FSU.

[8timechamps]

The bolded language made me think it was more than academics. Holding yourself to a higher academic standard than other schools is a disadvantage (OU has benefited from the Big XII having lax eligibility standards). But I'd think that when ND is out-performed by Stanford and Northwestern numerous times over the years, they'd re-evaluate how much of a barrier to success high academic standards for players is (or maybe ND has even higher standards than Stanford and Northwestern).

Good point. I don't know off-hand if Stanford/NW have lower admission standards, but I doubt it. NW has certainly maintained a decent level of success, and Stanford is still in the upper echelon of college football (we'll see if they stay). Maybe it is more about coaching.

[agoo758]

Not even after 2007??

[OU_Sooners75]

What additional religious/moral restrictions does ND place on their students that other schools don't? When I was at OU in the late 90s, OU had comparable dorm visitation rules for females (at least for freshmen), and ND was way more lenient on drinking (actually condoning underage drinking in the dorms as long as parties were registered). I'm not sure how the schools compare in their treatment of other offences (drugs, et al).

Overall, I had many more compliance headaches my one year living on campus at OU than my ND friends did.

Im talking academics. ND has a very tough admissions standard. And they also have a very tough eligibility standard. They also force students to attend church related events.

In today's world, that is a turn off for some kids. And in today's world, it is hard for them to get a lot of kids they really want eligible, by their standards, not the NCAA's.