Ron Paul vs. Paul Krugman

[Sooner5030]

While I don't totally agree with either of these two gentlemen I was really pleased with the show today. I wish some of our political debates were more like this instead of the usual 10 second sound bite contest crap we get. It actually starts around the 1:08 mark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BcuAOdXD0Go

[diverdog]

While I don't totally agree with either of these two gentlemen I was really pleased with the show today. I wish some of our political debates were more like this instead of the usual 10 second sound bite contest crap we get. It actually starts around the 1:08 mark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BcuAOdXD0Go

Wow we have a real mess in this country...don't we.

The one thing they agree on but they may not know it...the way out of this mess is to get out of the wars and reduce defense spending.

[Sooner5030]

Wow we have a real mess in this country...don't we.

The one thing they agree on but they may not know it...the way out of this mess is to get out of the wars and reduce defense spending.

we could totally do away with the DoD and still have a $900 billion deficit. What crack are you smoking? We have to reduce defense spending, adjust entitlements, enhance revenue and HOPE!.

[diverdog]

we could totally do away with the DoD and still have a $900 billion deficit. What crack are you smoking? We have to reduce defense spending, adjust entitlements, enhance revenue and HOPE!.

What crack am I smoking....are you serious? How on earth did you get that out of my post?

Next look at the defense budget and all that goes with it. We would not have a $900 billion dollar deficit if we eliminated almost a trillion dollars in spending.....and not I am not advocating that at all. But we can reduce it by $250-$300 billion dollars and not hurt our operational readiness. I bet Krugman and Paul would agree with me and that is my point....they agree on something.

[Sooner5030]

in 2011 US DoD totaled $718 billion net cost. The unified deficit that year was 1.3 trillion. Start at Pg 6 http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2011/11stmt.pdf

2012 Appropriations for DoD is $662 billion http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/us/politics/obama-signs-military-spending-bill.html and we will likely end up with a 1.4 to 1.6 trillion $ deficit.

2013 budget for DoD is 615 billion pf 9 at http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2013/FY2013_Financial_Summary_Tables.pdf and we will likely end up with a 1.2 to 1.4 $ trillion

DoD is being cut. While there have been small cyclical variations DoD as a % of GDP and % of total expenditures has decreased for over 40 years now. We always cut DoD because it is easier than facing the public with tax increases and entitlement reform. We have now reached the point where even if we totally did away with the DoD we would maintain a significant annual deficit.

Cutting DoD alone to solve our problems is a pipe dream. Based on your post you subscribe to that pipe dream.

[diverdog]

in 2011 US DoD totaled $718 billion net cost. The unified deficit that year was 1.3 trillion. Start at Pg 6 http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2011/11stmt.pdf

2012 Appropriations for DoD is $662 billion http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/us/politics/obama-signs-military-spending-bill.html and we will likely end up with a 1.4 to 1.6 trillion $ deficit.

2013 budget for DoD is 615 billion pf 9 at http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2013/FY2013_Financial_Summary_Tables.pdf and we will likely end up with a 1.2 to 1.4 $ trillion

DoD is being cut. While there have been small cyclical variations DoD as a % of GDP and % of total expenditures has decreased for over 40 years now. We always cut DoD because it is easier than facing the public with tax increases and entitlement reform. We have now reached the point where even if we totally did away with the DoD we would maintain a significant annual deficit.

Cutting DoD alone to solve our problems is a pipe dream. Based on your post you subscribe to that pipe dream.

I said defense spending not just DOD spending. Add in the VA, CIA, NSA, Homeland defense, black budgets, foreign aid...etc

And I did not say cutting DOD would solve our problems.....learn to read.

Remind me not to say anything nice in your next post.

[Sooner5030]

I said defense spending not just DOD spending. Add in the VA, CIA, NSA, Homeland defense, black budgets, foreign aid...etc

And I did not say cutting DOD would solve our problems.....learn to read.

Remind me not to say anything nice in your next post.

Yes, those items you listed will also have to be cut. But what is being ignored are entitlements and tax revenues.

[diverdog]

Yes, those items you listed will also have to be cut. But what is being ignored are entitlements and tax revenues.

Read some of my other post on different threads. I am an everything is on the table type of guy. No sacred cows.

My preferred way of dealing with this is to grow the economy but as you mentioned in another post this may not be an option. And to back you up even further all currency that have ever existed have gone to zero. Defaulting on a nation's debt is nothing new and maybe a viable option at some point. The same can be said of inflation.

[diverdog]

One simple solution is to freeze current spending for 10 years and let inflation do the work. That would reduce the deficit.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Not a bad debate but I find it funny Krugman will debate Ron Paul, when the debate was supposedly dropped on Ron Paul last minute, but he won't debate a PhD Austrian Economist (http://mises.org/daily/4993/My-Reply-to-Krugman-on-Austrian-Business-Cycle-Theory) who has openly challenged him (http://krugmandebate.com/).

He also turned down a debate from Peter Schiff but I'm guessing that's because he saw what happened when the last Keynesian went up against Schiff (http://youtu.be/YnKsgelpuHU).

[yermom]

strange how i don't feel like choking either one of them

[BillyBall]

Krugman is a pretentious *******.

[AlboSooner]

I agree more with Ron Paul