BoB Wants Student Interest rates to Double

[olevetonahill]

Who Loves Ya? BoB Loves Ya.:congratulatory:

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-threatens-veto-student-143141086.html

[diverdog]

Who Loves Ya? BoB Loves Ya.:congratulatory:

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-threatens-veto-student-143141086.html

You fishing again?

[olevetonahill]

You fishing again?

Aint that what the article says?

[diverdog]

Aint that what the article says?

Not really.

[pphilfran]

On a 100k loan it amounts to 100 bucks a month...

[olevetonahill]

On a 100k loan it amounts to 100 bucks a month...

And who can afford that in this economy?

[pphilfran]

And in this economy who can afford the $950 bucks a month at 3.4%?

[Midtowner]

I guess the people can decide whether they want the money to come from entitlements to the poor/lazy or entitlements to already profitable energy companies. Why can't we get the money from both?

[Sooner5030]

what entitlements do energy companies receive? I'm pretty sure that the subsidies they receive are paid based on appropriations.....but I could be wrong.

Also, those subsidies are to prevent the Walmartization of the energy industry.

[Midtowner]

what entitlements do energy companies receive? I'm pretty sure that the subsidies they receive are paid based on appropriations.....but I could be wrong.

Also, those subsidies are to prevent the Walmartization of the energy industry.

What's the difference between a subsidy and an entitlement? They're both free money from the gov't.

It's kind of like foreign government = we like, foreign regime = we don't like. Just a dumb semantic game. Call it what it is--an entitlement.

[Sooner5030]

In budgeting there is a huge difference. Entitlements are mandatory and paid without any appropriation bills. While subsidies are paid on meeting criteria...just like entitlements....they still have to be funded with appropriations and are considered discretionary. At least most of them were when i studied the federal budgeting process.

I don't agree with the subsidies and I am am not sure the preventing the walmartization of the energy industry is a valid concern.

[Midtowner]

Not really a big difference. The oil companies have powerful lobbies and are in no danger of having their entitlements cut. The poor don't have that luxury and all it takes to cut entitlements for the poor is a bill with the President's signature on it. Also, many of the oil and gas industries' subsidies are actually more as you describe entitlements. For example, many types of pipeline and oilfield equipment are entitled to accelerated depreciation.

At any rate, I say neither entitlements for the poor or the wealthy are nearly as important as affordable higher education.

[pphilfran]

Is the problem the higher interest rate?

Or is it the fast rising cost of higher education?

Will keeping low interest rates help resolve the rapid increase in cost?

Are we even trying to address the higher costs?

Once again we concentrate on areas that are not the core problem and put into place systems that do not help to resolve the core problem...

I do not think that individual looks at the costs and how they will affect their future...

Also, does anybody know how many loans are above 50k? 100k?

[Sooner5030]

That's what makes the student loan dilemma unsolvable.

If anyone actually did what is right, you'd quickly be labeled as anti-education and would not hold office long.

[Turd_Ferguson]

That's what makes the student loan dilemma unsolvable.

If anyone actually did what is right, you'd quickly be labeled as anti-education and would not hold office long.Every kid should be able to go to college don't ya know?

[badger]

Every kid should be able to go to college don't ya know?

The solutions the state and federal governments came up with aren't really working, are they?

In Oklahoma, there's OHLAP, which is basically tuition-freeness in state public colleges for students that take certain classes in high school (college prep ones), maintain a certain GPA and have a family income that is below a certain amount. Thus, on paper it sounds like students that can least afford to pay for college can now go to colleges on the state's dime.

The problems are all over the place, but the biggest one is that OHLAP funding is part of higher education's state funding. Thus, the most the state pays for OHLAP, the less the college receive directly. Colleges then raise tuition so that they can get more OHLAP dollars indirectly, and raise other costs, like fees. About five years ago, OU even tried to make it a requirement for all freshmen to live on campus, to ensure that even more money would be coming into the university via alternative means. I don't know if this is still the case or not, but I remember seeing photos of Norman-area parents protesting in front of the president's office, because they didn't want to pay thousands extra for their kids to live on campus instead of having them live at home.

At the federal level, the government provides loans so that regardless of the cost of education and regardless of the family's/student's income level, everyone now has the means to pay for college. Alas, colleges have been using this increase in 'income' as an excuse to raise tuition continuously, even at higher rates than inflation. Blame states paying less (directly) to fund colleges percentage-wise than they used to, but they can only charge what students are willing and able to pay... and with tons of government loans, students can suddenly afford to pay a lot more.

President Obama actually did present a good idea in one of his student vote catering speeches --- cut off providing loans for students to attend colleges that do nothing to reign in their costs. Only provide students loans for students to attend colleges that keep costs affordable.

I worry that this would become another political pawn, though, that student loans would suddenly be provided to the most liberal campuses during Democratic presidents' terms, or the more conservative campuses during Republican presidents' terms.

[pphilfran]

http://www.finaid.org/loans/

A lot of info on loan amounts...

If I am reading the data properly about 60% of undergrads get loans and have an avg loan balance of 22k...so doubling the interest rate would add 40 bucks a month on a 10 year loan

94% of grad studies required loans at an avg of 62k...doubling the rate would add about a hundred bucks a month...

Like I said...for the vast majority we are making a mountain over a mole hill in regards to interest rates...
]
It looks to me that we should be far more concerned about graduate loan balances and rates and not so much with undergrad debt...

Another question...are there penalties if a student does not get a degree while receiving a subsidized loan?

[Midtowner]

Is the problem the higher interest rate?

Or is it the fast rising cost of higher education?

Will keeping low interest rates help resolve the rapid increase in cost?

Are we even trying to address the higher costs?

Once again we concentrate on areas that are not the core problem and put into place systems that do not help to resolve the core problem...

I do not think that individual looks at the costs and how they will affect their future...

Also, does anybody know how many loans are above 50k? 100k?

If I had my druthers, like to see the amount available for public non-bankruptable student loans cut back each year in order to force universities across the board to either compete in tuition pricing or at least to cut back in order to fill the seats they have, or if nothing else, if universities are going to charge a bunch of money, so long as the universities are required to directly finance it and the loans can be discharged in bankruptcy if the education doesn't turn out to be worth the cost, i.e., it doesn't lead to a job capable of paying the loan payments.

The thing is though, we're stuck with the system we have until someone builds the political will to really change it. For many, these big loans are the only way to finance their education. I graduated from undergrad debt free due to scholarships, but grad school, even working full time ran up a $90K+ tab.

Student loans are some of the only public spending where the public gets a big return on its investment in terms of a better educated workforce. If we're going to be spending for the public good, we should target areas which do the most good. Education is one of those places.

[Midtowner]

Another question...are there penalties if a student does not get a degree while receiving a subsidized loan?

Having to pay back non-dischargable debt for something which gave you no benefit whatsoever.

[pphilfran]

Having to pay back non-dischargable debt for something which gave you no benefit whatsoever.

I would guess that would be a penalty...

[pphilfran]

Student loans are some of the only public spending where the public gets a big return on its investment in terms of a better educated workforce. If we're going to be spending for the public good, we should target areas which do the most good. Education is one of those places.

I can agree with that...

[Sooner5030]

If "education" continues to be lots of folks spending $100k for a music history degree (with an emphasis in the Baroque period) from Columbia than I cannot agree. Too many folks get degrees just to get degrees. We need more STEM (science, tech, engineering, & mathematics) education.

[Midtowner]

I would guess that would be a penalty...

That was one of the most terrifying things about law school. I saw the debt I was incurring, and during that first semester, when we were made aware of the attrition rate, it was more than enough to motivate me. Ended up #5 in my class after that first semester. I'd never been so motivated before or since.

[Midtowner]

If "education" continues to be lots of folks spending $100k for a music history degree (with an emphasis in the Baroque period) from Columbia than I cannot agree.

That's likely a bad example. Most of the music undergrads I knew were on full rides. Heck, I was a non music major and played in the school's symphony orchestra and chamber ensemble (and whatever else they asked me nicely to do) and had a nearly full ride for that. We need musicians and liberal arts majors just like STEM folks.

Of course, that's why we ought to require schools to provide their own bankruptable financing for anything past a certain bare minimum. If schools think those degrees are going to serve students in the workforce, the schools should invest in those programs and in their students.

For the record, I had an excellent private instructor (who was also the head of the department at the time) who had his PhD in Music Performance with an emphasis on the Baroque period. He was an excellent prof who studied mostly in Vienna and at UNT. He was always doing fundraising for the music school and has played a significant role in keeping the school competitive with much better funded universities in the area with regard to its music program. He definitely got his money's worth out of his investment in his education.


Too many folks get degrees just to get degrees. We need more STEM (science, tech, engineering, & mathematics) education.

With our undergrad system, particularly our system in Oklahoma, which is one of the worst-funded in the country, good luck with producing students who won't flunk out of Calc I, let alone some of those higher math classes required for those disciplines. Which do we value more in Oklahoma? Tax cuts which only benefit the very wealthy or investment in common education?

[Sooner5030]

Of course, that's why we ought to require schools to provide their own bankruptable financing for anything past a certain bare minimum. If schools think those degrees are going to serve students in the workforce, the schools should invest in those programs and in their students.

Mid - in the last few weeks I have either read or was watching something that talked about students wanting to pay for college by offering rights to a % of their income for a specific period. Not sure if it would work but it would definitely motivate the school to put out a good product.

[Midtowner]

Mid - in the last few weeks I have either read or was watching something that talked about students wanting to pay for college by offering rights to a % of their income for a specific period. Not sure if it would work but it would definitely motivate the school to put out a good product.

Definitely. That'd likely also shut down these for-profit online schools and close a good number of law schools (which I'm in favor of).

[East Coast Bias]

My wife is a high-School teacher and says all the Universities have dumbed down their standards over the past few years. She claims most of the curriculum that is passed off now as college-level is not different than what we had in High school 40 years ago? I have seen evidence of this in some of he recent graduates I know.

[hawaii 5-0]

No need to worry. We can disband the Dept. of Education and we'll continue to have the best educated students on the world.

5-0

[Midtowner]

My wife is a high-School teacher and says all the Universities have dumbed down their standards over the past few years. She claims most of the curriculum that is passed off now as college-level is not different than what we had in High school 40 years ago? I have seen evidence of this in some of he recent graduates I know.

I don't know about that. The law classes I took were the exact same classes my father took 40 years ago, (just with 40 more years of decisions to study). I felt well prepared by my undergraduate experience at a regional Oklahoma university to handle the rigors of law school and I felt well prepared with my undergrad degree to do what I initially wanted to do.

I might agree with you regarding some of the 100-level classes though. Those are pretty watered down.

[soonercruiser]

I guess the people can decide whether they want the money to come from entitlements to the poor/lazy or entitlements to already profitable energy companies. Why can't we get the money from both?

WHAAAAAAAA!
:playful:

[soonercruiser]

Anybody gonna discuss the underlying cause of college costs going up????
Like government grants and loans to higher education, building more services & infrastructure....

[badger]

My wife is a high-School teacher and says all the Universities have dumbed down their standards over the past few years. She claims most of the curriculum that is passed off now as college-level is not different than what we had in High school 40 years ago? I have seen evidence of this in some of he recent graduates I know.

It might not be that classes are dumbed down, but that grades are uberly inflated.

I think it was Cal's law program that had stricter grading policies than other top California law universities, resulting in their grads having difficulty finding jobs (because when everyone's resume looks identical, employers were apparently using GPAs as a means to separate candidates). So, Cal retroactively went back and raised graduates' GPAs to match those of their colleagues at other universities.

The classes are still tough. But getting good grades is not. Does that even make sense?

[Curly Bill]

It totally makes sense badj! You quickly learn as a teacher that school administrators don't like getting calls from upset parents about why little Suzie's grade is so low in so&so's class. Administrators talk constantly about high standards, challenging students, holding them accountable, etc, etc... but most of em aren't willing to back that up. You find out early that the best way to retain your job is to keep your bosses, and your customers happy. Failing a high number of kids who can't make the grade, or students getting grades lower than they've gotten used to is not the way to do that.

[badger]

why little Suzie's grade is so low in so&so's class.
My parents took the teacher's side 99 percent of the time. The one time mom complained was when my first two quarter's grades were A's, the semester exam was a B+ and the teacher tried to make my semester grade (the one that goes on the permanent record) a B+. It was a very strictly graded class and I had a severe illness (mono) near the end of the semester, hence the B+ on the exam. Haggling later, they settled in the middle with an A-. Don't sympathize with the teacher too much. Everyone else in the class got much lower grades. EVERYone. He was a bad teacher.


Administrators talk constantly about high standards, challenging students, holding them accountable, etc, etc... but most of em aren't willing to back that up.
Don't blame student report cards. Blame school/teacher report cards. Those standardized tests are the most important thing now it seems.


Failing a high number of kids who can't make the grade, or students getting grades lower than they've gotten used to is not the way to do that.
I've found that many students don't care so long as the parents don't get furious over the report cards' grades. If passing is good enough, if C- and higher is good enough, then Junior doesn't care. But, you'll always run into psycho parents that throw a fit at the sight of an A- (or worse, a regular A instead of an A+)