Good News! Chevy Volt Saves Money For The Buyer

[sappstuf]

It only takes a little over 26 and a half years and you are home free!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/newsgraphics/2012/0405-payback/0405-WEB-PAYBACK.png

I wonder what the payback would have been if the $7500 freebie didn't exist...

[pphilfran]

It's annual fuel savings are 446 bucks..so add in another 15 years or so...only 41...

[SCOUT]

I don't understand why a break even (or payback as you say) analysis would only involve someone who would only own the Cruze Eco. Is owning the Eco a prerequisite to buying a Volt?

[yermom]

but why not just buy the Cruze Eco in the first place?

[pphilfran]

Est battery costs...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/column/the-lotus-effect

Prius $910
Prius plug in 3080
Volt 11,200
Leaf 16,800

[yermom]

how many miles per year does that assume?

[SCOUT]

but why not just buy the Cruze Eco in the first place?
To support an emerging technology? I don't know. I just found the representation a little misleading. If you are going to frame it in investment terms, comparing it to one of the highest performers in that category doesn't paint an accurate picture. In my opinion, of course.

[yermom]

sure, but anyone buying a Volt is donating to an emerging technology. they aren't really saving money on gas

[SCOUT]

sure, but anyone buying a Volt is donating to an emerging technology. they aren't really saving money on gas
That is my point. Not compared to an Eco. Well, not a lot anyway. How about compared to a F350?

[pphilfran]

how many miles per year does that assume?

15,000

Use the Civic as a baseline...

15000/33 mpg = 454 gallons used at a cost of $1750 (3.85/gal)
15000/44 mpg = 341 gallons used at a cost of $1312

So you save 438 bucks per year...in line with their stated $440...

[yermom]

That is my point. Not compared to an Eco. Well, not a lot anyway. How about compared to a F350?

right, but if you choose the Volt instead of a Civic or a Cruze Eco to replace your F350, then you are still donating to new tech vs just saving money on gas

[pphilfran]

but why not just buy the Cruze Eco in the first place?

The Cruze is the closest in size to the Volt...other than drive train they would pull in a similar buyer...

[Turd_Ferguson]

I've already donated to new technology...it went to Solyndra.

[sappstuf]

It's annual fuel savings are 446 bucks..so add in another 15 years or so...only 41...

Damn. 40 years was my cutoff.. I might buy me a used TDI when I get to Italy and see how I like it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

This list once again shows in most cases, electric and most hyper-efficient cars are not ready for prime time... You can purchase a conventional engine vehicle in most cases and get almost as good MPG as the hybrids/hyperefficient cars.

[sappstuf]

but why not just buy the Cruze Eco in the first place?

I think that is the point. Hybrids will never be more than a niche market if they are not economically viable versus much cheaper alternatives. It is just broken down by manufacture.

[pphilfran]

As a disclaimer, and Sap will verify, I am a fan of the Volt...

I realize it is a money loser at the current time (and into the foreseeable future)...but I think that we will learn a lot, advance design, and we will see lower future costs by building the Volt...GM learned a lot from the EV1 (it was anything but viable but look at the public outcry will it was literally scrapped) and used those lessons in the current Volt...

With current battery design the costs are prohibitive to get any sort of long distance travel...if you want 200 miles of range you need to spend 30 grand on a battery...and that 200 mile range will decrease as the battery ages...the Volt uses a highly efficient engine running at it's most efficient RPM to give additional range...

I think plug ins are a viable option for the next 10 years...

[sappstuf]

As a disclaimer, and Sap will verify, I am a fan of the Volt...

I realize it is a money loser at the current time (and into the foreseeable future)...but I think that we will learn a lot, advance design, and we will see lower future costs by building the Volt...GM learned a lot from the EV1 (it was anything but viable but look at the public outcry will it was literally scrapped) and used those lessons in the current Volt...

With current battery design the costs are prohibitive to get any sort of long distance travel...if you want 200 miles of range you need to spend 30 grand on a battery...and that 200 mile range will decrease as the battery ages...the Volt uses a highly efficient engine running at it's most efficient RPM to give additional range...

I think plug ins are a viable option for the next 10 years...

It is one of your few faults.. ;)

[pphilfran]

It is one of your few faults.. ;)

Screw ya, Sapp....

[sappstuf]

Screw ya, Sapp....

lol.. I've got nothing against the Volt really. I just don't like seeing $7500 per car go to buyers that have an average income of $170K.. They would have bought it anyway.

[pphilfran]

lol.. I've got nothing against the Volt really. I just don't like seeing $7500 per car go to buyers that have an average income of $170K.. They would have bought it anyway.

I agree...

[yermom]

As a disclaimer, and Sap will verify, I am a fan of the Volt...

I realize it is a money loser at the current time (and into the foreseeable future)...but I think that we will learn a lot, advance design, and we will see lower future costs by building the Volt...GM learned a lot from the EV1 (it was anything but viable but look at the public outcry will it was literally scrapped) and used those lessons in the current Volt...

With current battery design the costs are prohibitive to get any sort of long distance travel...if you want 200 miles of range you need to spend 30 grand on a battery...and that 200 mile range will decrease as the battery ages...the Volt uses a highly efficient engine running at it's most efficient RPM to give additional range...

I think plug ins are a viable option for the next 10 years...

i'm not a fan in that it's inaccessible. i would have rather seen them ease into it more like Honda did with the Insight. it just seems like it skipped a step or two somewhere.

it just seems like it's about $10,000 too expensive

[pphilfran]

i'm not a fan in that it's inaccessible. i would have rather seen them ease into it more like Honda did with the Insight. it just seems like it skipped a step or two somewhere.

it just seems like it's about $10,000 too expensive

It is 10k too expensive....but future CAFE standards are forcing the issue...they have to get a 40% improvement in fuel economy by 2020...

The only way to meet the goal is build much smaller vehicles or use alternate and expensive methods in larger vehicles...

The US consumer has always leaned toward larger sized vehicles and if the manufactures can meet the new CAFE standards while still producing a full size vehicle those manufacturers could grab a larger market share...

[SCOUT]

I think the reason I support the Volt, at least in concept, is the battery car supported by an ICE. The reverse is true in other hybrids. The knock on electric vehicles is their range. The use of a back up ICE does a good job of addressing that problem. If that technology can be developed further, and the cost of production lowered, I think it could be a viable step to increasing overall efficiency.

[pphilfran]

I think the reason I support the Volt, at least in concept, is the battery car supported by an ICE. The reverse is true in other hybrids. The knock on electric vehicles is their range. The use of a back up ICE does a good job of addressing that problem. If that technology can be developed further, and the cost of production lowered, I think it could be a viable step to increasing overall efficiency.

I am 100% in agreement...

Over time the cost is going to come down...

[StoopTroup]

How many Volt's sold have gone into tossing away our tax dollars at $7,500 each?

I'm thinking back a few threads and it seems to me that they weren't really selling very many anyway? Won't capitalism eventually kill this off anyway?

I'd love to have that Lincoln Hybrid over a volt.

[pphilfran]

15000 tops..Sapp could quote the exact number...

[SCOUT]

Sales had been weak to the point of halting production. However, it has been reinstated due to record sales last month.
http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/gm-will-restart-chevy-volt-production-one-week-early-uaw-reveals.php

[diverdog]

I've already donated to new technology...it went to Solyndra.

Yeah a whopping 2 bucks if that.

[StoopTroup]

I new it wasn't many but didn't know it was that high. They have improved their sales.

I know the Auto Industry has been talking about their comeback but I have been driving a 1988 Chevy P/U since I sold my gas eating 2004 Ford Lariat 4x4.

I am getting like 25 MPG with it just around town. It hauls 4-5 folks as it's an extended cab and had a 8' longbed on it. My son put a chain on the back and we pulled out some shrubs one of the older gals in the neighborhood was tryying to dig up. She was happy as hell because there was like 30 of them.

Guess I'm saying that I don't miss that old Ford. It was cheaper to find a good used vehicle.

Now I realize that eventually it will give up the ghosts in it but i decided a couple of years ago to take the Clark Howard approach to vehicles. My truck has 249,000+ miles on it and the Wifes Toyota had 120,000. If you take care of your stuff and fix things when they break instead of get trapped into some bank loan you can lower your insurance and operating costs so much that you can put aways 100's of dollars away every month until you have the $ to jump on a good deal when the next good used car you run into comes along. With the chevy truck and the Toyota we have, there are just tons of i expensive parts for them so my opinion is to make sure you buy a vehicle that they sold a bunch of.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah a whopping 2 bucks if that.

I bet that's $2 more than he's given to the GOP to help throw that bum Obama out of office...lol.

[pphilfran]

I new it wasn't many but didn't know it was that high. They have improved their sales.

I know the Auto Industry has been talking about their comeback but I have been driving a 1988 Chevy P/U since I sold my gas eating 2004 Ford Lariat 4x4.

I am getting like 25 MPG with it just around town. It hauls 4-5 folks as it's an extended cab and had a 8' longbed on it. My son put a chain on the back and we pulled out some shrubs one of the older gals in the neighborhood was tryying to dig up. She was happy as hell because there was like 30 of them.

Guess I'm saying that I don't miss that old Ford. It was cheaper to find a good used vehicle.

Now I realize that eventually it will give up the ghosts in it but i decided a couple of years ago to take the Clark Howard approach to vehicles. My truck has 249,000+ miles on it and the Wifes Toyota had 120,000. If you take care of your stuff and fix things when they break instead of get trapped into some bank loan you can lower your insurance and operating costs so much that you can put aways 100's of dollars away every month until you have the $ to jump on a good deal when the next good used car you run into comes along. With the chevy truck and the Toyota we have, there are just tons of i expensive parts for them so my opinion is to make sure you buy a vehicle that they sold a bunch of.

That 15k was total...since introduction...

[pphilfran]

I am getting like 25 MPG with it just around town. It hauls 4-5 folks as it's an extended cab and had a 8' longbed on it.

I am calling bullchit on this one...

[StoopTroup]

I am calling bullchit on this one...

I knew someone would but the last owner put a brand new fuel effecient motor and transmission in it. I found this truck up in Bartlesville from a guy that moves vehicles via volume. Instead of making every dime he can off the stuff he buys he moves it fast. I dont think i would have gotten such a good deal if he'd known what the last owner had done to the truck. It's no screamer but with the Transmission it has it gets up to highway speed OK. I keep a log on my fillups and the damn thing is getting great mileage. Also it was a California Customs Interior package with bucket seats and I think was original sold for the California Market. I don't know if that's why it runs so much different that the others but it's kind of weird how it just powers along and slides into gear. Its like it's a brand new truck. My Buddy that was with me when I bought it has offerred me twice what I paid for it. I bought it for $2,100 and it has a new paint job too. I did a CarFax on it because i thought it was such a good deal that it might be stolen.

[Midtowner]

Is the Cruze the same thing as the Volt? I've looked at them both online. The only thing they have in common is that they're both sedans. Other than that, isn't every other car on that list (besides the Prius v. Camry) a hybrid model of the same car?

Doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

[pphilfran]

Is the Cruze the same thing as the Volt? I've looked at them both online. The only thing they have in common is that they're both sedans. Other than that, isn't every other car on that list (besides the Prius v. Camry) a hybrid model of the same car?

Doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

IT is a different car but size wise they are similar...

They looked at various automakers offerings...if there was a hybrid version of a vehicle they used it...if not they chose a similar model...there comparison is not perfect but it give an idea of the current costs associated with high mileage vehicles...

[StoopTroup]

Here's some pics.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/3e4761a0.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/511cfff4.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/44b86993.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/9080b4be.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/8fd81869.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/stooptroup/5284fd86.jpg

I need to powerwash the engine and do an oil and air filter and PCV valve change in it and the power steering is squealing a bit but the A/C blows cold and Ive been driving it almost 3 years and i put some tires on it awhile back.

[StoopTroup]

We even drove it to Dean's Retirement Party from Tulsa to the Deanarosa and back with no problems. I like taking the Toyota to Norman as it gets better mileage and is easier to drive in traffic and is a bit more comfy.

[pphilfran]

ST you are a rich man and don't even know it...

You should auction off the technology in that pickemuptruck...one of the giant worldwide manufacturers would love to know how you get 25 mpg city out of an extended cab....

Just ask for one dollar royalty for each vehicle sale...

[Midtowner]

IT is a different car but size wise they are similar...

They looked at various automakers offerings...if there was a hybrid version of a vehicle they used it...if not they chose a similar model...there comparison is not perfect but it give an idea of the current costs associated with high mileage vehicles...

I get that, but really, it's not a very fair comparison. Looking over the vehicles, a starting Cruze and a starting Volt are not similarly equipped or all that similar in any way except for size. The interior luxury items which are standard on the Volt are fairly impressive.

--not that I would buy one, I wouldn't buy any kind of Chevy that's not a truck.

[StoopTroup]

ST you are a rich man and don't even know it...

You should auction off the technology in that pickemuptruck...one of the giant worldwide manufacturers would love to know how you get 25 mpg city out of an extended cab....

Just ask for one dollar royalty for each vehicle sale...

I get that you are a non-believer. Maybe my neighbor feels sorry for me and is putting in 5 gallons extra every week.

Remember this, if I knew how the hell I was getting it maybe I would be rich. I've never tried to figure out what engine and trans they put back in. Maybe I should.

Honestly it's not a fast truck and I have had some trouble going uphill at an accelerated pace. It's a dog as far as getting up to speed. I also don't go around with my foot in it either. I just putz around like a retired AZ Voter on a hot day.

[Midtowner]

Looks like a V-6 4.3 Vortec. My first truck had one of those. They're great engines and they're extremely easy to work on. You can do just about anything yourself.

[Sooner5030]

TDI rocks! You cannot beat the value of a Jetta Sportwagon TDI. It's my next purchase. Our passat wagon handled pretty well also and was peppy...turbo 1.8L (gas).

[yermom]

that new TDI Passat seems kinda awesome