Can we Really afford 4 more years ?

[olevetonahill]

National Debt has increased more under Obama than under Bush

In just over 3 years Our National Debt has risen More than the previous 8 years under Bush

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/

[jkjsooner]

How much of that is due to increased non-stimulus spending and how much of it is the stimulus (not a recurring thing) and less tax revenue due to the recession?

[olevetonahill]

How much of that is due to increased non-stimulus spending and how much of it is the stimulus (not a recurring thing) and less tax revenue due to the recession?
How much MORE of that can we afford?

[cleller]

Let me save our adversaries some time here:

If it had not been for Bush starting wars for no reason other than to make his friends (who were already rich) mega-rich, Obama would not need to be spending all this stimulus money.

That said, Obama is trying to follow the script the economists he believes in have provided him. The fault I find is that along with the stimulus, he buys into the idea that feeding the slugs from the teat of big government is sound policy.

Please, someone, ask Obama about that Murtha Airport in Pennsylvania. (Screw that taxpayers thread) That thread is dying a premature death. That is some serious government waste that should be bigger news.

[StoopTroup]

Denver's new Airport in Stapleton was supposed to be a huge waste of money too but that wasn't Obama who did that.

Every Administration has had their Cash Cows. The point Cleller makes about the last two Wars and this idea that we must take care of everyone who put 4 years of their life on the line for nearly 50 years after they have come Home wasn't something Soldiers asked for back in WWI. It's something that has come up after Korea.

Reform can come in many ways. I for instance am for everyone serving our Military for 3 years of their life. If Britain can send their Royalty into the service....so can we. We have plenty of folks in America who could serve either via 3 years in the Military or say 6 to 10 in the Reserves. People who want scholarships and help with College can get low interest loans for their education and if they want...they could pay into it while they are in the Service. If you are going to sign your life away for a Taxpayer backed Loan.....then you should be willing to back that up with your patriotism.

We have plenty of ways to fix things.

It's not about can we afford 4 more years. the reason he's in there was we couldn't afford anymore from the GOP and America put an end to it. Nice try trying to put it off on the new guy but he's got zero help from the Party who piled up the debt and now they are festering like lepers trying to get there hands back on the power they misused.

[olevetonahill]

Whiskey,Tango, Foxtrot?
In 3 years the "New" guy has run up more debt than the OLD guy did in 8
Make some sense Bro. Its not about the Vets .Its about STUPID

[StoopTroup]

Whiskey,Tango, Foxtrot?
In 3 years the "New" guy has run up more debt than the OLD guy did in 8
Make some sense Bro. Its not about the Vets .Its about STUPID

The new guy has made me a lot of money.

Make sense out of that. I know he didn't use any Tax payer Dollars to do it with either. Last year I paid a **** load of taxes and this year I got a return of what I paid of over 3xs what I paid last year. If that's not happening for you I don't know Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot is wrong. Maybe he needs to cut off everyone on the tit?


The guy that is in charge right now is trying to reduce the number of guys on the tit while reducing the amount of dough we use to keep our Country Safe. We spend **** loads more on Homeland Security because of 9-11-01. The last administration didn't do anything to reduce that....they spent and spent and spent and used the idea that we haven't had anymore attacks. Who would attack us if they knew you would not only kick their a$$ militarily but also dismantle their entire Country and put some guys who went to School in America in charge? That was enough to stop it. We don't need a Video Camera on every street corner in America and 50 people monitoring everyone of them to keep our Country safe. That's what we have because of the last Administration. You expect a guy to turn that 10+ years of mess around in 3? He told you it would take longer than 2 terms when he got elected?

Seriously...you don't like him because he makes your guys look like idiots.

He asked for understanding and help and got nothing but a stalemate after the 2010 elections. We put some Pubs in to counter the balance of power not to crush it. Instead the guys we put in went in with a Totally Conservative view and now in 2012....you are seeing a surge in Democratic Activity trying to reverse the damage that was done in 2010. They are now going to push for 4 more years and try to retake power in the House and further protect the Senate. Once you have them in the Executive Office, The House and Senate...you have a real problem as then they won't negotiate. Your window to negotiate will be closed and they will do whatever the hell they they think is best.

The balance of power will again be in the ****ter.

[olevetonahill]

What ever Greg
You go gurl

[StoopTroup]

What ever Greg
You go gurl

**** Off Dip****

[olevetonahill]

:unconscious:

[C&CDean]

It's official. Greg is one ****ed-up mother effer. Certainly. In a great way.

[cleller]

The Denver Airport in question was the brainchild of then Denver Mayor Federico Pena, who went on to become Bill Clinton's Secretary of Energy.
It was a messed up deal, too, but at least it was in a real city, Denver.

John Murtha Airport? In Johnstown Pa, a town of 20,000 an hour from Pittsburgh, which already had an international airport. That's a super-duper messed up log of waste. Every person that flies in or out gets the first $100 of their fare paid for by taxpayers, on top of the millions its costs to upkeep the white elephant.

[olevetonahill]

This aint about Airports Or Veterans
This about 5 TRILLION BUCKs in 3 years
We've had the Vets and the Airports for ever

There is No way in hell This country can sustain this kinda out of control spending

[Sooner5030]

some folks need to follow the budget and appropriations more closely. Last FY and during the current FY the DoD is the only one of the 15 agencies that will actually have a year to year cut....not just a budgeted cut in the ten year plan. DoD consistently has shrunk as a % of GDP since the 1970s.

Since 2001 there are actually four line items in the consolidated financial statements that have grown at a larger annual rate than DoD. USDA, DHHS, DHS and one other one. I presented the data in post some time ago.

Anyway, the point is that if you believe we are gonna plug a 1.5 trillion annual shortfall with DoD cuts you are on f-ing crack and just spewing some partisan **** talking points.

thank you

[olevetonahill]

some folks need to follow the budget and appropriations more closely. Last FY and during the current FY the DoD is the only one of the 15 agencies that will actually have a year to year cut....not just a budgeted cut in the ten year plan. DoD consistently has shrunk as a % of GDP since the 1970s.

Since 2001 their are actually four line items in the consolidated financial statements that have grown at a larger annual rate than DoD. USDA, DHHS, DHS and one other one. I presented the data in post some time ago.

Anyway, the point is that if you believe we are gonna plug a 1.5 trillion annual shortfall with DoD cuts you are on f-ing crack and just spewing some partisan **** talking points.

thank you
Dont sweat it. I think LAS stole Gregs password

[cleller]

some folks need to follow the budget and appropriations more closely. Last FY and during the current FY the DoD is the only one of the 15 agencies that will actually have a year to year cut....not just a budgeted cut in the ten year plan. DoD consistently has shrunk as a % of GDP since the 1970s.

Since 2001 there are actually four line items in the consolidated financial statements that have grown at a larger annual rate than DoD. USDA, DHHS, DHS and one other one. I presented the data in post some time ago.

Anyway, the point is that if you believe we are gonna plug a 1.5 trillion annual shortfall with DoD cuts you are on f-ing crack and just spewing some partisan **** talking points.

thank you

There is no place here for your solid mathematical theories. This is politics.

[diverdog]

Whiskey,Tango, Foxtrot?
In 3 years the "New" guy has run up more debt than the OLD guy did in 8
Make some sense Bro. Its not about the Vets .Its about STUPID


Do you honestly think that if McCain were elected we would not have the exact same problem? The debt started to explode under Bush and kept going with the recession.

[diverdog]

some folks need to follow the budget and appropriations more closely. Last FY and during the current FY the DoD is the only one of the 15 agencies that will actually have a year to year cut....not just a budgeted cut in the ten year plan. DoD consistently has shrunk as a % of GDP since the 1970s.

Since 2001 there are actually four line items in the consolidated financial statements that have grown at a larger annual rate than DoD. USDA, DHHS, DHS and one other one. I presented the data in post some time ago.

Anyway, the point is that if you believe we are gonna plug a 1.5 trillion annual shortfall with DoD cuts you are on f-ing crack and just spewing some partisan **** talking points.

thank you

Sorry looking at DOD as a percentage of GDP is stupid. I could make the same argument that we are paying less on servicing the debt as a percent of GDP than we did under Reagan. We can cut defense by 25% and not hurt national security. That is about $180 billion and it is a start. Taxes need to go up a lot and we need to grow the economy.

[Sooner5030]

Sorry looking at DOD as a percentage of GDP is stupid. I could make the same argument that we are paying less on servicing the debt as a percent of GDP than we did under Reagan. We can cut defense by 25% and not hurt national security. That is about $180 billion and it is a start. Taxes need to go up a lot and we need to grow the economy.

It's not that stupid when trying to decide what needs to be cut and by how much. The military will always be the first and sometimes only target for cuts. When pegging against GDP you provide the sheeple some clarity and the fact the other problems (ENTITLEMENTS) exist and need some attention.

[StoopTroup]

some folks need to follow the budget and appropriations more closely. Last FY and during the current FY the DoD is the only one of the 15 agencies that will actually have a year to year cut....not just a budgeted cut in the ten year plan. DoD consistently has shrunk as a % of GDP since the 1970s.

Since 2001 there are actually four line items in the consolidated financial statements that have grown at a larger annual rate than DoD. USDA, DHHS, DHS and one other one. I presented the data in post some time ago.

Anyway, the point is that if you believe we are gonna plug a 1.5 trillion annual shortfall with DoD cuts you are on f-ing crack and just spewing some partisan **** talking points.

thank you

I never said that. I said...everything needs to be looked at. Military Cuts are a part of cleaning up the mess.

What Washington calls a cut is also in need of change. It's not a cut if you increase your budget 20% the very next year and then cut 10%. That's the kind of stuff I know was happening during the Bush Administration. Folks like Vet want to go waving the American Flag and celebrating a War Victory that damn near put us into a depression.

The GOP got tossed out on it's a$$ because of it. Now the GOP strategy is to try and convince the American Public that it's a guy who has been in office 2 years when it all caught up to us. The same Administration (Bush) continued to allow outsourcing of jobs from the US.that have now begun to come back. Not because of anything political but because they found out that yeah the labor was cheaper but their products started getting knocked off because we took our manufacturing base over to China and basically showed them how to make our products. Since they had zero recourse as outsiders they brought the jobs back home. Stupid....horrible Management.

With a bit of help via the Gov't the folks who lost jobs would have still been in their homes and paying on them instead of the collapse we have seen. Now...is that Obama's fault? No.

Quick, fast money and that 10% increase of the bottom line looks very tempting to young folks who come charging out of school and making presentations in board rooms about how the American Worker is a slug. What they later found out was that the American Worker is loyal. Chinese Worker....not so much. Chinese Competitor? Not at all.

The GOP not only got us in a War they sold off our jobs for the bottomline and some fast profit. Those same folks have no idea what the F to do now. What is done quickly can't be undone as quick.

Fast financial moves that made huge profits have ended up hurting our Country. Now I sit here listening to Romney preach about giving those same Companies who left America out to dry....that we need to allow them to bring Home their profits so they can invest in America. What the truth is....they better bring it back soon and invest in those jobs before some Company in China steals everything from them. What they want to do is put a GOP Candidate in so they can again get a deal for coming back home. Like we owe them for killing our jobs. They are trying to hold us hostage while they are running a bluff hand on the poker table. I say put Obama back in and pass legislation that will force them out of the US and invest in another Company to replace their Traitorous a$$es.

[StoopTroup]

Sorry looking at DOD as a percentage of GDP is stupid. I could make the same argument that we are paying less on servicing the debt as a percent of GDP than we did under Reagan. We can cut defense by 25% and not hurt national security. That is about $180 billion and it is a start. Taxes need to go up a lot and we need to grow the economy.

yep

We also need to really go after the folks who collect taxes and then don't pay into the system as well as the folks who are defrauding the IRS.

I don't have very many write offs unless I start a business. Now...What's wrong with Tax Breaks for Mom and Pop Businesses that hire people to work for them getting 4-5 years incentives to start a business? It would probably hurt your McDs and Burger Kings who hire people constantly as their employee turn over is as high as the National Debt. They would see that as unfair competition and probably lobby against it. You can't be a success in America unless you have 60+ fast food restaurants with 90% of your employees working for minimum wage.

[Sooner5030]

servicing debt is mandatory and does not require an appropriation so I am not sure how your point is valid. The fluctuation is also due to interest rates more so than total debt when looking at the comparison to GDP. That is not the case with DoD and other discretionary items. Where the f did you guys get your civics education?

[diverdog]

servicing debt is mandatory and does not require an appropriation so I am not sure how your point is valid. The fluctuation is also due to interest rates more so than total debt when looking at the comparison to GDP. That is not the case with DoD and other discretionary items. Where the f did you guys get your civics education?

The point is we spend more money on our military than almost all of the rest of the world combined. Add in the CIA, NSA and the black budgets and we are spending somewhere north of $850 billion dollars. No matter how you try to sugar coat it that is a ****load of money.

Oh if I were a betting man I would guess we are really spend over $1.2 trillion dollars!

[StoopTroup]

servicing debt is mandatory and does not require an appropriation so I am not sure how your point is valid. The fluctuation is also due to interest rates more so than total debt when looking at the comparison to GDP. That is not the case with DoD and other discretionary items. Where the f did you guys get your civics education?

I'll give you this...you don't need a Civics Lesson when you've been involved in running successful Businesses for the last 30+ years.

I do applaud you for a trying to have a civil conversation though. What seems to be popular on this forum is to post something negative, run down the President. Maybe question whether he's an American, maybe call him a Socialist.....when he's been in office for nearly an entire term as POTUS and nothing like that has been proven true.

Talking about financials and Taxes, Import and Export Tariffs, Starting new Companies to compete with others around the World by using Americans to get er done.

Positives things. I see progress. Negatives...I usually see retired folks who are sitting on their a$$es getting taken care of monthly who bash things they don't understand, call posters names and then bail out when it gets rough.

I truly wish the GOP had gone into all of those meetings as right now they could have said that we tried but just couldn't ever come to an agreement. The thing is that would have required them to be in those meetings and it's much more fun to collect your paycheck and leave some folks in your Washington Office to sort through your mail while you head back Home to your State to start Campaign Financing your next election by showing up at every ribbon cutting and every now and then doing an interview on Fox.

[soonercruiser]

Do you honestly think that if McCain were elected we would not have the exact same problem? The debt started to explode under Bush and kept going with the recession.

Bush's fault! BUSH'S FAULT!
BUSH'S FAULT! Blame Boooosh!

Clinton handed Boooosh an economy in decline - FACT!
Is there anyone on the planet that Obama and his minions have not blamed for every problem we have?????

[Sooner5030]

The point is we spend more money on our military than almost all of the rest of the world combined. Add in the CIA, NSA and the black budgets and we are spending somewhere north of $850 billion dollars. No matter how you try to sugar coat it that is a ****load of money.

Oh if I were a betting man I would guess we are really spend over $1.2 trillion dollars!

I'd be taking a wild guess at stating we also pay more for SNAP than the rest of the world combined....or at least consistent with our $ based expenditures of DoD compare to the rest of the world.

I view DoD expenditures above year 2000 level $500 billion as A problem...most view it as THE problem....ignoring the other 14 agencies and the decrease in tax revenue as a % of GDP.

[Chuck Bao]

In my honest and humble opinion, I think Clinton still needs to be blamed. Under his watch, he allowed the Chinese to devalue their currency and discount almost all manufacturing jobs in the rest of the world. The very silly brain trusts and think tanks in the US at that time were all so afraid of losing China or rather gaining access for Corporate America to a billion people market that the obvious consequences were overlooked.

And during the 8 years of President G. W. Bush, did he actually do anything to try to stop a runaway freight train? I still say that Clinton should be blamed first, then Bush and then Obama. If anyone thinks that our economic problems are all related to the last 3 and half years, well you're just deceiving yourself.

The investment cycle is a little longer than that unless you are a Wall Street broker and that's a whole other part of our problems to blame on Clinton, Bush and Obama.

[olevetonahill]

Ok, Does every one have the BLAME out of their system?
This Not so much about Blame Anyone as to CAN WE AFFORD another 4 years of what we've had these last 3+

I dont care if its Mickey Mouse or Mary Poppins fault

Can we survive it ? Can we Continue to spiral ever deeper in the vortex of Debt?

Or will we just try to get another Credit Card and keep goin.

[Chuck Bao]

In our immediate future, the short answer is yes. It really doesn't matter who is in the white house 4-8 years from now.

The long answer is also yes but involves a lot of reach arounds and you probably don't want to know about any of that.

In the longer term, we still seem to be screwed with no reach arounds.

[diverdog]

I'd be taking a wild guess at stating we also pay more for SNAP than the rest of the world combined....or at least consistent with our $ based expenditures of DoD compare to the rest of the world.

I view DoD expenditures above year 2000 level $500 billion as A problem...most view it as THE problem....ignoring the other 14 agencies and the decrease in tax revenue as a % of GDP.

5030:

I think everything should be on the table. One thing that should be cut is SSI. That is one of the most fraud riddled programs in the US right now.

[diverdog]

Ok, Does every one have the BLAME out of their system?
This Not so much about Blame Anyone as to CAN WE AFFORD another 4 years of what we've had these last 3+

I dont care if its Mickey Mouse or Mary Poppins fault

Can we survive it ? Can we Continue to spiral ever deeper in the vortex of Debt?

Or will we just try to get another Credit Card and keep goin.

Wasn't it David Stockman in the Reagan Administration that said deficits don't matter?

[olevetonahill]

Wasn't it David Stockman in the Reagan Administration that said deficits don't matter?
Who cares what ANYBODY said in the PAST.

The question is CAN WE SURVIVE as a country?

Hell the Soviets went under , Do Yall not think we can also?

[OULenexaman]

China just called.....they want the check now.

[Curly Bill]

China just called.....they want the check now.

Brack has helped ST make a lotta money this past year. He's got it covered.

[OULenexaman]

I guess so.....he da 1% now.

[olevetonahill]

Brack has helped ST make a lotta money this past year. He's got it covered.

Back when I drank everyday and posted a lot durnk. Was I ever this Crazy?

[Curly Bill]

Back when I drank everyday and posted a lot durnk. Was I ever this Crazy?

Not even close! There are some whack posters on here, but never have I seriously questioned if someone has lost all their marbles til now.

...and we know who I'm talking about!

[OULenexaman]

Bath Salts?

[sappstuf]

It is time for a road trip!

SV-xPS5-GxE&

[Curly Bill]

There should be a pole on what it is!

[soonercruiser]

In our immediate future, the short answer is yes. It really doesn't matter who is in the white house 4-8 years from now.

The long answer is also yes but involves a lot of reach arounds and you probably don't want to know about any of that.

In the longer term, we still seem to be screwed with no reach arounds.

Chucky!
You can't be serious?????
Just like "even if we start drilling, it will take 10 years to.....blah, blah, blah"; WE MUST TURN AROUND THE NATION IMMEDIATELY to even have a chance to save it!

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Reform can come in many ways. I for instance am for everyone serving our Military for 3 years of their life. If Britain can send their Royalty into the service....so can we. We have plenty of folks in America who could serve either via 3 years in the Military or say 6 to 10 in the Reserves. People who want scholarships and help with College can get low interest loans for their education and if they want...they could pay into it while they are in the Service. If you are going to sign your life away for a Taxpayer backed Loan.....then you should be willing to back that up with your patriotism.

Nothing like a little bit of involuntary servitude funded by the government to "fix" an out of control budget and MIC.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I never said that. I said...everything needs to be looked at. Military Cuts are a part of cleaning up the mess.

What Washington calls a cut is also in need of change. It's not a cut if you increase your budget 20% the very next year and then cut 10%. That's the kind of stuff I know was happening during the Bush Administration. Folks like Vet want to go waving the American Flag and celebrating a War Victory that damn near put us into a depression.

The GOP got tossed out on it's a$$ because of it. Now the GOP strategy is to try and convince the American Public that it's a guy who has been in office 2 years when it all caught up to us. The same Administration (Bush) continued to allow outsourcing of jobs from the US.that have now begun to come back. Not because of anything political but because they found out that yeah the labor was cheaper but their products started getting knocked off because we took our manufacturing base over to China and basically showed them how to make our products. Since they had zero recourse as outsiders they brought the jobs back home. Stupid....horrible Management.

With a bit of help via the Gov't the folks who lost jobs would have still been in their homes and paying on them instead of the collapse we have seen. Now...is that Obama's fault? No.

Quick, fast money and that 10% increase of the bottom line looks very tempting to young folks who come charging out of school and making presentations in board rooms about how the American Worker is a slug. What they later found out was that the American Worker is loyal. Chinese Worker....not so much. Chinese Competitor? Not at all.

The GOP not only got us in a War they sold off our jobs for the bottomline and some fast profit. Those same folks have no idea what the F to do now. What is done quickly can't be undone as quick.

Fast financial moves that made huge profits have ended up hurting our Country. Now I sit here listening to Romney preach about giving those same Companies who left America out to dry....that we need to allow them to bring Home their profits so they can invest in America. What the truth is....they better bring it back soon and invest in those jobs before some Company in China steals everything from them. What they want to do is put a GOP Candidate in so they can again get a deal for coming back home. Like we owe them for killing our jobs. They are trying to hold us hostage while they are running a bluff hand on the poker table. I say put Obama back in and pass legislation that will force them out of the US and invest in another Company to replace their Traitorous a$$es.

I tried reading this a couple of times and still couldn't make sense of it. Is this from the Unabomber manifesto?

[Chuck Bao]

Chucky!
You can't be serious?????
Just like "even if we start drilling, it will take 10 years to.....blah, blah, blah"; WE MUST TURN AROUND THE NATION IMMEDIATELY to even have a chance to save it!

I really, really would like to think so, Cruisy. Is there anybody in the grand scheme of things that will throw you that life preserver? Please give a reason and not just-anybody-but-that-guy-currently-in-the-white-house dealio.

[Soonerjeepman]

He asked for understanding and help and got nothing but a stalemate after the 2010 elections. .

just like the Rep asked (because the AMERICAN people didn't want his aca shoved down our throats...)for compromise when he had the congress for his first 2 yrs and he and the dem said screw you...again, another looking at it how you want...