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cleller
4/3/2012, 05:55 PM
If you clicked, you probably know about Grass Carp and their use in ponds for vegetation control. I got 3 from a Dunn's Fish Farm truck about 4-5 years ago for my pond. I imagine they are dead now. At any rate, my main pond is getting too much vegetation in it. For a year, I've been trying to remember to get some more grass carp.
I've called and emailed Dunns about 3 times, trying to get on the mailing list, so I could catch up to one of their route trucks. Never have got a newsletter. So I think I am going to just drive the 1-1.5 hours down to Fittstown (S of Ada) and pick me up some.

Now, last time I had read about some folks getting too many, and the fish eating up too much habitat, and got paranoid. The pond in question is around 3/4 an acre, depending on the level. Right now it is full. The kid on the truck told me to get 4-5, I got 3, and never noticed any decrease. Maybe they just held it at bay.

Anyone use these fish for weed control with any success? Got to get on the ball, I also read to stock them by April.

OUinFLA
4/3/2012, 08:10 PM
I have some experience with them down here in Fla.
I'm in the aquaculture business and had problems with Hydrilla. They are tightly controlled by Fla Wildlife down here. You can only have triploid carp (sterile).

The initial ones I got were only 14" long and it took several to control the growth in a pond. However, they grow like magic and soon became 30"+ and weighed 8-10 pounds. By the time they get that size, they become like weed vacumn cleaners.
Problem for me was they destroyed the pond banks by cruising around the bank all day long.
I had them for several years. Finally passed them on to a friend with a wildly out of control stock pond about the size you are refering to.
It is possible the ones you stocked initially became food for some predator.
It is also possible they are still there and can't get ahead of your aquatic weed growth, but that seems unlikely.
I would think 4-6 full size ones could handle your size problem. But, I doubt you can buy full size grass carp. So, you should plan on some loss factor and overstock.

Like any other fish, there needs to be oxygen in the body of water for them to survive. If your pond was really choked, it is possible they died and you would never see them as they don't always float.

You can check the oxygen level in your water and you might need to provide some aeration. Aqua-Eco Systems in Fla has world wide shipping and a full line of aeration and aquaculture management equipment. Check out their web page, it is full of valuable info.

You might also check with your Game & Fish Commission for advice as to stocking density and pond management.

We didn't lose any of them due to a lack of vegitation for them to graze on. They do just fine on catfish pellets. They are not much different than the ornamental Koi you see in the pet trade. I used to raise those in contained facilities and they never saw any grass in their environment.

They are stocked in lots of weed infested local lakes here in Florida all over the state. Since we are restricted to triploids, they can't spawn and overpopulate. They just grow and graze. But, they are only available by permit, and only from approved suppliers of sterile grass carp.

Hope this helps

cleller
4/3/2012, 09:03 PM
Its not choked at all, just has the usual muck around the banks. The problem is the vegetation is starting to grow back from the banks, so that when you fish, you hit the vegetation when you reel back in.
Just don't want the situation to get out of control if there's something I can do about it.

Like OUinFlA says, I've read these dudes can get awfully big, but I also read they don't live too long, so hopefully it would all work out.

OUinFLA
4/3/2012, 09:17 PM
Like OUinFlA says, I've read these dudes can get awfully big, but I also read they don't live too long, so hopefully it would all work out.

It is not uncommon for some carp to live 40 years.
I believe the longest know is over 200 years. Passed down from generation to generation in Asia.
Largest I've had is 32". About 15 years old.

You may have other alternatives rather than the carp. There are some safe to use chemical treatments that may take care of your problem. Check out a product called K-Tea. It is a copper type treatment you might have seen on golf course lakes. Makes the water blue-green for a while, but that goes away. As it goes away you re-treat. Follow the label and it should be safe for you to enjoy your pond. Your state probably has a Dept of Natural Resources that might give you additional info.

Lott's Bandana
4/3/2012, 09:37 PM
You can call mine, or several other golf clubs and ask them about it. My club has them in every one of their ponds.

8timechamps
4/3/2012, 10:22 PM
Grass control fish...who knew? And they say you can't learn anything here!

Sooner24
4/3/2012, 11:50 PM
I bought a couple around 9 years ago and found them floating dead last summer as the pond dried up. I guess they ran out of oxygen. I would guess they weighed 10-15 lbs.

Fraggle145
4/4/2012, 12:32 AM
What other fish do you have in the pond?

Breadburner
4/4/2012, 07:19 AM
How deep is your pond....Might time to drain and dredge....If its shallow the sunlight penetrating to the bottom is allowing things to grow....

cleller
4/4/2012, 08:11 AM
What other fish do you have in the pond?


How deep is your pond....Might time to drain and dredge....If its shallow the sunlight penetrating to the bottom is allowing things to grow....

It was an old pond that I rebuilt about 7-8 years ago. Broke the dam, let it dry for a year, dozed it out. Its around 8-10 feet deep in a few areas, but certainly not all over. I then re-stocked it with perch, channel cat and bass from the state's free program. All the fish are doing great. I need to pull out more bass and catfish. There are some big bass in there, but too many around the 12 inch size. Some of the cats are getting too big, will break your line, etc.

Never had any problems with oxygen loss/fish death. I never do any minnow fishing, and make sure to keep the crappie away. Nothing can kill a farm pond like crappie. (unless its huge).

I'm just hesitant to put chemicals in there, as we do eat the fish regularly. The Dunn's Fish Farm website has tons of info on all of this stuff, but it can get pricey. I may try there Pond Pack Algae Control for this summer:
http://dunnsfishfarm.com/pondpack_algae_103_ctg.htm

S.PadreIsl.Sooner
4/4/2012, 09:15 AM
I recommend you drive down there. They can put them in an air-filled bag. Surround the bag with ice packs. They'll keep for hours. Put the bags in the pond water before release to adjust their body temperatures.

Also, get some black crappie. You won't be sorry.

S.PadreIsl.Sooner
4/4/2012, 09:18 AM
We're gonna put crappie in our pond when the current dam repair is complete. But, we have 17 acres or so of surface.

I've caught crappie from smaller ponds in the past. I didn't see any negatives of having them in there.

S.PadreIsl.Sooner
4/4/2012, 09:19 AM
Also, we had grass carp in that pond. They got to close to 50 lbs. 4' long. They looked like a cobia swimming by. They get dark when mature.

cleller
4/4/2012, 10:01 AM
On the crappie issue, I had the local OSU extension guy out before redoing the pond. One of the first things he said was not to put crappie in there. They'll over populate, and you'll end up with a pond full of 6 inch crappie.

Guess what we found we we broke the dam? A pond full of 6 inch crappie. Here's what the OSU Pond stocking guidelines (which I followed) say:

"With few exceptions, the following species should be kept out of fishing ponds: crappie, bullheads (mudcats), flathead catfish, green sunfish (goggle eye perch), golden shiners, goldfish, and shad. All have problems that generally make them unsuited for farm ponds. Never empty bait buckets into the pond - dump them on the ground to avoid introducing minnows, a major pest to most ponds.

The standard stocking recommendation for new and renovated fishing ponds in Oklahoma is 300 to 500 bluegill in the fall, followed by 100 largemouth bass and 50 channel catfish in the spring. Fathead minnows and redear sunfish are also used. Crappie are not recommended for most farm ponds. If the pond owner is able to successfully manage for lots of big, hungry largemouth bass, the number of crappie young can be kept down."

Fraggle145
4/4/2012, 03:00 PM
Sounds to me like you need to take out some of the smaller bass, and jerk out some of the larger bluegill. Big bluegill are your biggest problem. Bluegill are huge zooplanktivores when they are small, but once they get too big they will switch to more piscvory and ominvory. So then your zooplankton populations can get big and eat all of your algae. And when they eat all of the algae all the nutrients are left for the grass...

Add some crayfish too... Those eat the grasses and provide fish forage.

But you kind of have to choose between algae or grass. I would go with algae because that production stays in your foodweb and goes up to your larger fish.

Also you have to remove the grass that is in there, so grass carp might be useful for that, but I'm not sure I would keep them in there forever.

If you add minnows I doubt they would be much of a pest and would just serve as forage fish for your other species you already have in there. They would probably all get eaten relatively easily.

cleller
4/4/2012, 03:37 PM
Those are some good suggestions. I'd read not to use bait minnows, as you never really know what those could be, and might get some trash fish into the pond. That will be a longshot, I'm sure. Dunn's Fish Farm does sell special feeder minnows. While I'm there I ought to get some.

I watch the pond, and can usually spot small minnow-type perch. Adding some for the bigger bass sure couldn't hurt.

I'm very guilty of throwing back too many small bass, and not fishing for the perch. Sometimes a friend will bring his little boy out, and we'll catch them. Some big perch, but haven't run across any I wanted to try to fillet, so I've been throwing them back, too. Guess I'm too soft hearted.

I also just read on their website about the black crappie, how they don't overtake a pond like white crappie. I says they are OK for ponds as small as 1 acre. Dang that is tempting, but mine is not quite that big. Crappie would be fun to have around, if they didn't get out of control.

S.PadreIsl.Sooner
4/4/2012, 08:50 PM
Like I said, I've caught crappie out of ponds much smaller than 1 acre. And other fish were present. Dunn's carries fathead minnows. Our pond is about 10 minutes from there, so I've used them numerous times for my son and wife.

One thing about grass carp. If the pond runs out of its banks often, grass carp are originally river fish, so they will go down stream in a heartbeat.

Tulsa_Fireman
4/4/2012, 11:09 PM
What I've always heard is that because crappie spawn so much earlier than other game fish on top of having much larger spawns that they put too much pressure on available food sources. Likewise with shad. So while they won't necessarily do damage to existing game fish presence, they'll wreck their spawns by directly competing (and getting the jump on) with their food sources and over time, will painfully impact game fish populations in the pond.

So you may not see an effect to the larger fish. But because those larger fish aren't repopulating at the rate they should BECAUSE of the crappie's presence, you can't keep up with taking fish and mortality rates.

Secondly, did you consider the heat last year as a possible reason you lost your carp? I heard tons of stories of fish dying on jug lines and some localized fish kill. If they like running the shallows, I bet there's a chance the heat got 'em.

cleller
4/5/2012, 06:51 AM
Like I said, I've caught crappie out of ponds much smaller than 1 acre. And other fish were present. Dunn's carries fathead minnows. Our pond is about 10 minutes from there, so I've used them numerous times for my son and wife.

One thing about grass carp. If the pond runs out of its banks often, grass carp are originally river fish, so they will go down stream in a heartbeat.

Heard that, too. Last time I got the carp I strung some wire fabric across the runoff area.

Fraggle145
4/5/2012, 06:36 PM
Those are some good suggestions. I'd read not to use bait minnows, as you never really know what those could be, and might get some trash fish into the pond. That will be a longshot, I'm sure. Dunn's Fish Farm does sell special feeder minnows. While I'm there I ought to get some.

I watch the pond, and can usually spot small minnow-type perch. Adding some for the bigger bass sure couldn't hurt.

I'm very guilty of throwing back too many small bass, and not fishing for the perch. Sometimes a friend will bring his little boy out, and we'll catch them. Some big perch, but haven't run across any I wanted to try to fillet, so I've been throwing them back, too. Guess I'm too soft hearted.

I also just read on their website about the black crappie, how they don't overtake a pond like white crappie. I says they are OK for ponds as small as 1 acre. Dang that is tempting, but mine is not quite that big. Crappie would be fun to have around, if they didn't get out of control.

Not sure about the crappie... I would think Fathead minnows wouldnt hurt too bad. Definitely think about crayfish.