How California's Colleges Indoctrinate Students

[cleller]

Hopefully this story will open for you, it is from the WSJ. Things were getting a little stale here, so I thought this could generate some interest. In a nutshell, some panel has released a paper saying the campuses of the University of California are doing a better job of indoctrinating students in progressive politics than educating them in classic subjects.
It points out that in many of the departments at Berkeley; Democrats outnumber Republicans by around 25 or more to 1. It would be hard (impossible) to find a major university where Repubs held that kind of majority.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577312361540817878.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

[virginiasooner]

Methinks you're making mountains out of molehills. Could you please explain to me how you can "indoctrinate" an engineering major? From what I recall, they were a bunch of smug know-it-alls who spoke disdainfully of all other majors.

And since Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ, I no longer consider that once excellent newspaper a valid source of news.

[cleller]

It stinks that Murdoch bought the WSJ for this very reason. Now everyone is going to align it with Fox. Supposedly their editorial staff stayed out from under control of News Corp, but who to trust? MSNBC?

At any rate, it would seem a healthier system if it were more Diverse. Ever heard that word tossed around constantly for the last decade or two. Diversity is the essence of America. The would never dream of having a faculty of all-white, all-wasp, all-catholic, etc. All Democrat? Fine.

U Cal turns out grads that enter all walks of life, and they've been exposed to mostly one idea of political thought. Greater learning could be gained by exposure to faculty with more Diverse views of politics, also.
Diversity. Like yeah.

[yermom]

pfft. most engineering majors are just people that haven't switched to business majors yet :biggrin:

anyway, last i heard from the pubs was that only elitists think you should go to college and Intelligent Design is real science.

hmm. i wonder by conservatives might be underrepresented in colleges...

[olevetonahill]

pfft. most engineering majors are just people that haven't switched to business majors yet :biggrin:

anyway, last i heard from the pubs was that only elitists think you should go to college and Intelligent Design is real science.

hmm. i wonder by conservatives might be underrepresented in colleges...
Cause they Be werkin fer a Livin and Not moochin from the Gov. Tit?:adoration:

[TitoMorelli]

Methinks you're making mountains out of molehills. Could you please explain to me how you can "indoctrinate" an engineering major? From what I recall, they were a bunch of smug know-it-alls who spoke disdainfully of all other majors.

And since Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ, I no longer consider that once excellent newspaper a valid source of news.

Last time I checked, even engineering majors had to take courses in other disciplines. Including some departments where lib faculty outnumbers conservative faculty 10-to-1.

And you might be surprised how many of the same writers who wrote for the WSJ back when you supposedly considered it an excellent newspaper are still working there.

[soonercruiser]

Methinks you're making mountains out of molehills. Could you please explain to me how you can "indoctrinate" an engineering major? From what I recall, they were a bunch of smug know-it-alls who spoke disdainfully of all other majors.

And since Rupert Murdoch owns WSJ, I no longer consider that once excellent newspaper a valid source of news.

Not a college grad?
Any person with a "higher education" knows that half the courses you take towards a degree are not directly field related.
Basic sciences, math, English and writing; maybe even history, music or pschology.
These are the ones I had to take in Zoology-PreMed.
And now that I am a dentist we even get engineering grads as dental applicants.

There is plenty of chance for the uberLib professors to try to drain the brains.

[Skysooner]

Not a college grad?
Any person with a "higher education" knows that half the courses you take towards a degree are not directly field related.
Basic sciences, math, English and writing; maybe even history, music or pschology.
These are the ones I had to take in Zoology-PreMed.
And now that I am a dentist we even get engineering grads as dental applicants.

There is plenty of chance for the uberLib professors to try to drain the brains.

So basic science, math, English and writing are not field related? Try entering any science field without basic science, math, the ability to write and speak proper English. You won't last long. Ridiculous to think that a well-rounded education is "indoctrination".

Also in case you are wondering, I do use my out-of-field science, psychology (for my direct reports), writing, etc. for all that I do. I loved directly field related work when I did my engineering MS, but it was the MBA and other classes that have really helped the intangibles which are the things that really help you succeed.

[cleller]

From the California Public Education Act (160.66 1993)

"Administrators should take action to ensure that the faculty at any institution is broadly diverse. Each campus should maintain staff roughly equivalent to community representation in matters of faith, and moral issues. Faculty should have representation of members that do not believe in otherworldly deities or traditional values. Faculty should not be heavily represented in any one religion, race, professional organization, fraternal organization, etc. Heavy representation from one political party is, however, acceptable. In short, if it ain't diverse, it ain't happening. Except for the political party thing."

[Lott's Bandana]

I've always believed that university Professors and Journalists should be mostly liberal. Otherwise, things would get stale. Individuals that are actually in college or reading the op-ed section of a newspaper should be smart enough to understand the bias and form their own opinions accordingly.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

So what's your point, cleller? Should universities hire the most qualified professors or should they hire more conservatives for the sake of diversity? Maybe institute a quota system to help get more cons on campus?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I personally think the influence of professors on students is exaggerated. Students are much more influenced by their peers.

I can recall my Calculus professor pushing Liebniz notation on us and some students wanted no part of that German.

[virginiasooner]

Just by the nature of the profession (you know, TEACHING), professors are going to be a more open-minded bunch. Not a good or bad thing, just the way things are. And if you're unable to defend your (conservative/liberal) position, you should get a bad grade. Doesn't mean you've been "indoctrinated" or the professor fails you because your position is the opposite of the professor's.

[jkjsooner]

And if you're unable to defend your (conservative/liberal) position, you should get a bad grade. Doesn't mean you've been "indoctrinated" or the professor fails you because your position is the opposite of the professor's.

I agree but there is a natural tendency to judge those who hold opposite views a little more harshly.

Plus, as a student you do have to consider the material. I took an environmental conservation course with my girlfriend as an elective. She was pretty much dumb enough to challenge some of the entire concepts in the course in the term paper. (If I remember she didn't argue that conservation was unnecessary but more that it was a losing battle.) I pretty much said what I thought the professor wanted to hear. I got an A and she got something less than that.

[cleller]

So what's your point, cleller? Should universities hire the most qualified professors or should they hire more conservatives for the sake of diversity? Maybe institute a quota system to help get more cons on campus?

Just pointing out the inconsistent way some people apply their diversity mantra. They'd never assemble a faculty that had was so out of line with the population in other areas like religion, race, ethnicity, etc.

Granted, the whole system is tilted. With faculty being generally haing with more liberal thinkers, that's what they'll attract for students wanting to fill their shoes. I don't deny that academia is a field that a liberal is likely to find more fulfilling than a conservative.

My request would be that universities acknowledge this situation, and try to be conscientious in the classroom. Obviously, that is what they are supposed to do, but we all can remember professors who made their political feelings known, and on which side of the aisle those feelings usually came down.

I don't think it would be out of line for professors and department heads to encourage students to consider academia regardless of their political views. No quotas or affirmative action, just keep an open mind, and consider that balance could be beneficial.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Cause they Be werkin fer a Livin and Not moochin from the Gov. Tit?:adoration:
The irony is rich with this one

[cccasooner2]

Hopefully this story will open for you, it is from the WSJ. Things were getting a little stale here, so I thought this could generate some interest. In a nutshell, some panel has released a paper saying the campuses of the University of California are doing a better job of indoctrinating students in progressive politics than educating them in classic subjects.
It points out that in many of the departments at Berkeley; Democrats outnumber Republicans by around 25 or more to 1. It would be hard (impossible) to find a major university where Repubs held that kind of majority.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577312361540817878.html?m od=googlenews_wsj


Not gonna read the rest of this sh++, but it brings to mind my having a cig. break with a prof. near 405 freeway back in the day (early 70s). A hellicopter was flying nearby probably giving directions to an ambulance on the way to an 11 car pileup, a fleeing bankrobber, or a presidential visit. His posiition on the "annoyance" was to shoot the MF down.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The irony is rich with this oneOnly to you and your ilk, because there is a huge difference between moochin and being paid for work you performed...

[olevetonahill]

Only to you and your ilk, because there is a huge difference between moochin and being paid for work you performed...

Hell Turd, Hes too young and stupid to deserve a Response

[pphilfran]

From the California Public Education Act (160.66 1993)

"Administrators should take action to ensure that the faculty at any institution is broadly diverse. Each campus should maintain staff roughly equivalent to community representation in matters of faith, and moral issues. Faculty should have representation of members that do not believe in otherworldly deities or traditional values. Faculty should not be heavily represented in any one religion, race, professional organization, fraternal organization, etc. Heavy representation from one political party is, however, acceptable. In short, if it ain't diverse, it ain't happening. Except for the political party thing."

No one should be hired based on political leaning...the most qualified should get the job...

A left leaning state will hire more from the left and possibly drive even more students to the left...Oklahoma, on the other hand would load up on those from the right...

It would seem to me this would cause further rifts between states and their reps in Congress and would tend to perpetuate the current Congressional gridlock...

Just a little out of the box thinking, folks...

[Midtowner]

No one should be hired based on political leaning...the most qualified should get the job...

Tenure doesn't always work that way. Lots of politics tend to be involved.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

From the Cleller I-Be-Makin-sh1t-Up Act (160.66 1993)

"Administrators should take action to ensure that the faculty at any institution is broadly diverse. Each campus should maintain staff roughly equivalent to community representation in matters of faith, and moral issues. Faculty should have representation of members that do not believe in otherworldly deities or traditional values. Faculty should not be heavily represented in any one religion, race, professional organization, fraternal organization, etc. Heavy representation from one political party is, however, acceptable. In short, if it ain't diverse, it ain't happening. Except for the political party thing.".

[StoopTroup]

Only to you and your ilk, because there is a huge difference between moochin and being paid for work you performed...

BTW....per Vet, He's been a registered Democrat his entire life so Thanks for proving SouthCarolina's Point. Per you and Vet....He deserves every penny he gets for serving his Country in the finest Democratic way possible.

It brings tears to my eyes to know that our Nation's Finest were Democrats that came back to not only carry on with their lives but to raise Families who would later send their own kids to serve our Nation again in another War.

Amazing.....

Both Republican's and Democrats serve in the Military. Up until now I thought only Republican's have served in our Wars.

Honestly.....this thread like a few others are choked full of some of the dumbest statements and they seem to be because of some sort of political bigotry.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Only to you and your ilk, because there is a huge difference between moochin and being paid for work you performed...
Only you and your ilk consider getting a college education "milking off the government teat"

[AlboSooner]

pfft. most engineering majors are just people that haven't switched to business majors yet :biggrin:

anyway, last i heard from the pubs was that only elitists think you should go to college and Intelligent Design is real science.

hmm. i wonder by conservatives might be underrepresented in colleges...

I don't have any stats, but I would guess that most college kids who tend to be liberal, after graduation move more to the right than to the left.