St Augustine grass advice

[colleyvillesooner]

Saw the other thread on Bermuda and wanted to start one for St. Augustine.

Any tips for keeping it greener? I know to water it deeply once a week, but any tips you guys use for keeping out weeds? I have a neighbor who i think is out of town for the winter or something, cause his weeds are creeping into my yard. i have already used Scotts Southern lawn fertilizer and weed killer and that got rod of most of the weeds, but his keep creeping.

[pphilfran]

It will be treated similar to Bermuda...I had it in Tyler and didn't really like it...

[Turd_Ferguson]

Cotton seed hull and chicken ****...you'll thank me later.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Check here: Gardenline (http://www.ktrh.com/pages/gardenline-broadleaf.html) from Houston. I like the guy.

and here: Them jorts are good for something... (http://grove.ufl.edu/~turf/weeds/diamond.html)

[Lott's Bandana]

This is a nice calendar put out by Arky:
http://www.arhomeandgarden.org/lawns/Weeds/weed_control_calendar.htm#Table%202

[I Am Right]

Round Up

[jk the sooner fan]

water, sun and fertilizer

[colleyvillesooner]

that's one of my problems; i have a huge oak tree in the front yard that creates lost of shade. in the back i also have some big patches that are still dry/dead/dormant, when all around it is tall green grass. any idea what that is? I'll try and take a pic at lunch.

[pphilfran]

that's one of my problems; i have a huge oak tree in the front yard that creates lost of shade. in the back i also have some big patches that are still dry/dead/dormant, when all around it is tall green grass. any idea what that is? I'll try and take a pic at lunch.

You need a lot of sun or it will not spread...

You don't have brown patch do you? It would show up as small brown spots on the blades...it will decimate your yard if it is not controlled...

You need to make sure you water early in the morning so the sun dries off the leaves in short order...if it doesn't dry the brown batch fungus can take hold....

Do the dead spots look like the pictures at this link?

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3 Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%26type%3D68 5749&w=160&h=98&imgurl=www.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dst%2Ba ugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7b94b49e89cb1 12fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww. stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&size=&name=search&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch% 3Fq%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7 b94b49e89cb112fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%2 52f%252fwww.stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7b 94b49e89cb112fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%25 2f%252fwww.stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&p=st+augustine+brown+patch&type=&no=1&tt=115&oid=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbn ail.aspx%3Fq%3D4699665396401280%26id%3D3d38fb7639d 330947ebfb173b4424499&tit=Brown+Patch+Fungus+is+a+Turf+Disease+affecting +St.+Augustine+Grass+in+...&sigr=16a53nfcg&sigi=1632ahp0o&sigb=12ea71q13&fr=chr-greentree_ff

[colleyvillesooner]

You need a lot of sun or it will not spread...

You don't have brown patch do you? It would show up as small brown spots on the blades...it will decimate your yard if it is not controlled...

You need to make sure you water early in the morning so the sun dries off the leaves in short order...if it doesn't dry the brown batch fungus can take hold....

Do the dead spots look like the pictures at this link?

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3 Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%26type%3D68 5749&w=160&h=98&imgurl=www.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dst%2Ba ugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7b94b49e89cb1 12fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww. stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&size=&name=search&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch% 3Fq%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7 b94b49e89cb112fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%2 52f%252fwww.stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dst%2Baugustine%2Bbrown%2Bpatch%23focal%3D5c7b 94b49e89cb112fefa15dbe2e7916%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%25 2f%252fwww.stpetelandscaper.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2010%252f02%252fbrown_patc h_fungus.jpg&p=st+augustine+brown+patch&type=&no=1&tt=115&oid=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbn ail.aspx%3Fq%3D4699665396401280%26id%3D3d38fb7639d 330947ebfb173b4424499&tit=Brown+Patch+Fungus+is+a+Turf+Disease+affecting +St.+Augustine+Grass+in+...&sigr=16a53nfcg&sigi=1632ahp0o&sigb=12ea71q13&fr=chr-greentree_ff

Kind of. I will take a picture at lunch if i remember and post it. haven;t really noticed brown spots on the leaves.

Yeah, the spreading is my problem. i have a couple of spots that are more dirt than grass and are so shady that it has trouble spreading. to fill it in. and i have one in the middle of my yard now from the heat last year.

[jk the sooner fan]

sounds like you have a fescue or rye growing

my neighbor has such a tree and can't get the st. augustine to grow around the roots either - its impossible i think

the solution is to get you some nice stone - dig out the grass around the tree - create a circular flower bed around the tree with some good fill dirt -and plant some color around the tree

[pphilfran]

Kind of. I will take a picture at lunch if i remember and post it. haven;t really noticed brown spots on the leaves.

Yeah, the spreading is my problem. i have a couple of spots that are more dirt than grass and are so shady that it has trouble spreading. to fill it in. and i have one in the middle of my yard now from the heat last year.

Look closely at the blades and you can see small brown spots on the leaves...if you do have some brown patch it can be controlled with a fungicide...

[pphilfran]

One other thing...how long has the lawn been in? If it is old it could be St. Augustine which has a lot of problems...the hybrids like Raleigh St Augustine fair much better and are far more disease tolerant...I seriously doubt if you have the non hybrid version....

[cleller]

that's one of my problems; i have a huge oak tree in the front yard that creates lost of shade. in the back i also have some big patches that are still dry/dead/dormant, when all around it is tall green grass. any idea what that is? I'll try and take a pic at lunch.

Next fall rake under that tree and throw down some fescue. Throw it in the bermuda some, too. It will come up first, then get choked out where the sun/bermuda takes over.

[pphilfran]

Next fall rake under that tree and throw down some fescue. Throw it in the bermuda some, too. It will come up first, then get choked out where the sun/bermuda takes over.

If it is lack of sun the Bermuda won't spread either....I do not think St Augustine hybrids come in seed form...

[StoopTroup]

Unplug the battery on your mower. :D

[colleyvillesooner]

Here are the pics; you can see in the third picture, another type of grass is tying to creep in. this happens on the strip by my fence in the alley as well. any help is appreciated.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1421/photo3kh.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6803/photo2bn.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3575/photo1st.jpg

[colleyvillesooner]

One other thing...how long has the lawn been in? If it is old it could be St. Augustine which has a lot of problems...the hybrids like Raleigh St Augustine fair much better and are far more disease tolerant...I seriously doubt if you have the non hybrid version....

No idea. bought the house 2 years ago.

[colleyvillesooner]

sounds like you have a fescue or rye growing

my neighbor has such a tree and can't get the st. augustine to grow around the roots either - its impossible i think

the solution is to get you some nice stone - dig out the grass around the tree - create a circular flower bed around the tree with some good fill dirt -and plant some color around the tree

Yeah near the roots I've given up on. these are two spots away from the tree that are just dirt. tried spreading new dirt with nutrients last summer but not much worked.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Given the size and shape, it looks like A) fungus, B) a dog **** party, C) there's something under the ground like a rock or other thing, or even D) someone burned the hell out of it with fertilizer. Here's whatcha do.

Treat with a fungicide, as was mentioned. Also either get ahold of some capsaicin or other spray to ward off dogs if that's a potential. Also, depending on the soil density either water or go out after a good rain with a sharpened piece of 3/8" rebar. Probe the area and get an approximate depth until the soil resists the rebar using only your own strength (don't drive it with a hammer). If you go 6-12" and hit something solid, whether it be roots, rocks, a stump, whatever, the soil isn't deep enough to maintain moisture in the guts of summer. The sun will literally cook the grass and evaporate any and all available water above the object/material. Lastly, what you fertilize with over the course of the growing season is as important as how often you water. What are you using over the course of the season?

With that done, it's my advice that you strip these dead spots entirely and resod. That eliminates any remaining diseased turf and doesn't rely on existing strong turf throwing runners over the course of summer when it's going to want root growth, which in turn allows you stay within an appropriate fertilization schedule. But with the root of the problem solved, you won't have to worry about wasting cash on a few strips.

[pphilfran]

That one spot looks to be near a gas line...do you have a small gas leak?

[pphilfran]

Given the size and shape, it looks like A) fungus, B) a dog **** party, C) there's something under the ground like a rock or other thing, or even D) someone burned the hell out of it with fertilizer. Here's whatcha do.

Treat with a fungicide, as was mentioned. Also either get ahold of some capsaicin or other spray to ward off dogs if that's a potential. Also, depending on the soil density either water or go out after a good rain with a sharpened piece of 3/8" rebar. Probe the area and get an approximate depth until the soil resists the rebar using only your own strength (don't drive it with a hammer). If you go 6-12" and hit something solid, whether it be roots, rocks, a stump, whatever, the soil isn't deep enough to maintain moisture in the guts of summer. The sun will literally cook the grass and evaporate any and all available water above the object/material. Lastly, what you fertilize with over the course of the growing season is as important as how often you water. What are you using over the course of the season?

With that done, it's my advice that you strip these dead spots entirely and resod. That eliminates any remaining diseased turf and doesn't rely on existing strong turf throwing runners over the course of summer when it's going to want root growth, which in turn allows you stay within an appropriate fertilization schedule. But with the root of the problem solved, you won't have to worry about wasting cash on a few strips.

This is excellent advice...

[colleyvillesooner]

That one spot looks to be near a gas line...do you have a small gas leak?

Don't think so, but how do you tell. no smell that i notice.

[pphilfran]

Don't think so, but how do you tell. no smell that i notice.

You would smell even a small leak...I had one a couple of years ago and it killed off a small spot but I could smell the gas....

[colleyvillesooner]

Given the size and shape, it looks like A) fungus, B) a dog **** party, C) there's something under the ground like a rock or other thing, or even D) someone burned the hell out of it with fertilizer. Here's whatcha do.

Treat with a fungicide, as was mentioned. Also either get ahold of some capsaicin or other spray to ward off dogs if that's a potential. Also, depending on the soil density either water or go out after a good rain with a sharpened piece of 3/8" rebar. Probe the area and get an approximate depth until the soil resists the rebar using only your own strength (don't drive it with a hammer). If you go 6-12" and hit something solid, whether it be roots, rocks, a stump, whatever, the soil isn't deep enough to maintain moisture in the guts of summer. The sun will literally cook the grass and evaporate any and all available water above the object/material. Lastly, what you fertilize with over the course of the growing season is as important as how often you water. What are you using over the course of the season?

With that done, it's my advice that you strip these dead spots entirely and resod. That eliminates any remaining diseased turf and doesn't rely on existing strong turf throwing runners over the course of summer when it's going to want root growth, which in turn allows you stay within an appropriate fertilization schedule. But with the root of the problem solved, you won't have to worry about wasting cash on a few strips.


What is a good fungicide i can get at Home depot or lowes. or should i go to a nursery?

Don't think dogs are the issue, but will try the other thing as well.

This area was green like crazy last spring summer, so i think the soil depth is ok.

I am bad about fertilizing regularly. Used the Scott's southern lawn about a month ago with a scotts spreader on the correct setting, but nothing else.

[colleyvillesooner]

You would smell even a small leak...I had one a couple of years ago and it killed off a small spot but I could smell the gas....

I'll double check that. had a small leak over a year ago, but they cam out and repaired a part.

[jk the sooner fan]

grub worms

[colleyvillesooner]

grub worms

what do you do for that?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Granules. Like Kill-a-grub.

But unlike granules for fleas and ticks, sprinkle 'em out then water 'em in.

[pphilfran]

Grubs are a possibility...

Dig out a shovel full or two and see if there are any...I can't remember what an acceptable number of grubs is...

Like Tulsa said you will need to water hard to get the killer down deep enough...

[colleyvillesooner]

I'll try that too. and just water it in with the hose after.

any idea what fungicide to get?

[jk the sooner fan]

what do you do for that?

you treat for them in November

there is a granule pesticide that you put down in the late fall

the grass will come back later this early summer

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You can treat for grubs year round. If you go with nematodes, that's a whole different ballgame. But actual poison granules you should need to apply every 2-3 months.

[colleyvillesooner]

Any preference on the Fungicide?

[pphilfran]

Any preference on the Fungicide?

No...I can't remember what I used in Tyler...

Be sure to watch the time of day you water...

[colleyvillesooner]

Any preference on the Fungicide?

No...I can't remember what I used in Tyler...

Be sure to watch the time of day you water...

I usually water starting at around 6:30 ending around 8:00. I read somewhere to do two cycles through the zoned instead of one long cycle in each zone.

[pphilfran]

I usually water starting at around 6:30 ending around 8:00. I read somewhere to do two cycles through the zoned instead of one long cycle in each zone.

If that is am you should be ok...pm and you risk fungus growth...

The two cycle shouldn't be a problem...

[colleyvillesooner]

Front Yard Pictures:

Pic 1:

Upclose of section i lost last year during heat:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8358/img3362fh.jpg

Pic 2:
wider shot

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2082/img3363d.jpg

Pic 3

different area

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9110/img3371ja.jpg

Pic 4
Close up of smaller area
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5219/img3373lg.jpg

Pic 5
area along rail by sidewalk
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8541/img3372w.jpg

[pphilfran]

I don't know what to tell you...I can't see any small brown spots on the leaves which would be brown spot...

Did you look for grubs?

You might take a small sample and the pics to a nursery and see what they say...

[pphilfran]

Sorry I can't be of any more help...whatever, good luck!

[colleyvillesooner]

Haven't had a chance to take a shovel out. Son has his first tee-ball game this weekend so we have been practicing!

Will take a sample to a nursery soon. Thanks.

[pphilfran]

Grubs are big and you won't miss em...if you find a bunch you can take the kid brim fishing and use the grubs as bait...

[colleyvillesooner]

ha, sounds good.

[colleyvillesooner]

Update:

All areas look a lot better. Really think the side yard areas were fertilizer burn. Bought fungicide, but haven't used it yet since i don't think that's it. will use in july per the schedule. just laid more fertilizer, and upped my watering the past month and those bare areas are really catching some runners. I'll take some pictures at lunch to post. thanks for everyone's help. those fertilizer schedules will help me not forget.

[deweydw]

Looking at your pics. I had the same problem due to the heat last year. Yard is still on the mend. But for the most part greener than my neighbors.

I got on this schedule this year. http://www.randylemmon.com/lawns/fertilize.html

http://www.randylemmon.com/lawns/gardenline-lawns-bermudainstaugustine.html


Ridding St. Augustine of Bermudagrass

In Houston, the vast majority of the lawns are of the St. Augustine variety. There are some Bermuda-based lawns, however, along with some of Zoysia, and very few (if any) Centipede.

Most people with St. Augustine yards have bits and pieces of Bermuda, but some are overwhelmed with it.

The obvious answer to removing Bermuda is to kill it, till it and replace it with new sod. But that's usually just for extreme cases where the Bermuda is absolutely solid. In most cases ... where there is a mix of Bermuda and St. Augustine ... cultural practices will help St. Augustine win the battle.

Simply mowing properly is the answer nine in 10 times. If you mow as tall as your mower will allow, the St. Augustine will almost always crowd out the Bermuda. Conversely, if you want to accelerate the Bermuda, mow shorter and more often — then the Bermuda will win.

The reason is Bermuda can't grow in shade — taller St. Augustine will shade the slower growing Bermuda. Yes, you still have to mow once a week, but if your neighbors don't come up to your level, it is going to look like you don't mow at all. However, I promise your lawn will be a richer green with a thicker texture than your shorter-cutting-neighbors. I call it the "Bring Your Neighbor Up to Your Level" debate.

And there is an added benefit to growing taller-than-normal St. Augustine. You won't need to irrigate as frequently. First, because tall grass supports deeper roots which have more water available to them far down in the soil.

A second reason is more biotechnical.

Grass blades have microscopic pores (stomata) to transpire carbon dioxide (CO2), oxygen and water vapor. The stomata open in the morning and close when they get their fill of CO2. Since taller grass has more stomata exposed, it more readily collects CO2 released by soil microbes. And, as CO2 is heavier than air and tends to remain close to the ground, it's harder for wind to blow it away in taller grass. Therefore, tall grass gets more CO2 because it has more stomata and because the amount of CO2 is denser near the stomata. And, as a consequence, the stomata close off earlier in the day shutting off the transpiration of water vapor from the plant and allowing the plant (and soil) to retain water better.

Yes, I know that was way more technical than you probably needed. But it does show you how much I like researching this kind of stuff for you.

Finally, there are two more absolutes that you should keep in mind when trying to weed out Bermuda from your St. Augustine: First, Bermuda does not suffer from drought damage — like a St. Augustine yard ignored during a summer vacation. And secondly, it won't suffer chinch bug damage either.

[colleyvillesooner]

Here are new pics and the old pics. On the close up, looks like a different type of grass creeped up first,m but there are runners of st augustine under there. Probably will take a while to grow taller and choke it out i guess.


Here are the pics; you can see in the third picture, another type of grass is tying to creep in. this happens on the strip by my fence in the alley as well. any help is appreciated.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1421/photo3kh.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8199/photo1ttn.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6803/photo2bn.jpg

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2544/photo3ota.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3575/photo1st.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3958/photo2qy.jpg

[colleyvillesooner]

The last one is part a watering issue that i fixed. one sprinkler was overshooting this area and the other was being blocked by a shrub needing trimming.


Front Yard Pictures:

Pic 2:
wider shot

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2082/img3363d.jpg

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9072/photo6mj.jpg


http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9110/img3371ja.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5700/photo5hr.jpg



Pic 5
area along rail by sidewalk
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8541/img3372w.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4038/photo4js.jpg

[MamaMia]

Ive really been working on my weeds this year. I had a beautiful lawn until I hired a lawn mower guy. All of a sudden my yard started getting weeds that nobody around me had. One of my neighbors has plenty of their own though. They don't live in that house and are remodeling it, so I went over and asked them if I could weed and feed their yard. He was really nice about it and reimbursed me for the stuff I bought to use on his yard. It still would have been worth it to me just to keep from having to fight his weed problem.