Calvin Coolidge totally ruinded everything.

[cleller]

I am so sick of these people constantly badmouthing Obama. It is so ridiculously obvious that anything wrong with the country today is really the fault of Calvin Coolidge. If I knew how, I'd make that last sentence have letters that were bigger and fatter than the one before, because I feel that strongly about it.

Just google "roaring 20s" and you'll probably see something about Calvin Coolidge. His attitude of prosperity, flappers, and wildcat oil has been the cause of the malaise we all face today. He was dumb, too. The only reason he wanted to be president was because he had friends that wanted to drill for oil. Its all that oil that Calvin Coolidge's rich friends made that has caused the whole Keystone Pipeline fiasco.
Remember 1929 was in the 1920s, The same decade Coolidge was president. And 1929 was when everyone came down with that depression that ended up causing World War II, so that was his fault too.

Sometimes I lie awake at night silently sobbing about the terrible things a former president can wreak on society. That, and the time I went camping.
When I do sleep, I see Calvin Coolidge in my dreams, grinning at me while holding a martini class full of oil in one hand, and the flyswatter my mom would spank me with in the the other.

I wish he had never been president. Either that, or that he was the all-time president, so I could blame him the rest of my life. He just loves oil and making money for his friends.

[ictsooner7]

I know, I wish we could go back to the Reagan days when he was raising taxes and tripling the debt.

[olevetonahill]

I know, I wish we could go back to the Reagan days when he was raising taxes and tripling the debt.

Well NOW yer makin ****in sense.:unconscious:

[ictsooner7]

I know, I wish we could go back to the Reagan days when he was raising taxes and tripling the debt.

OH, I forgot, and legalizing abortion.

[olevetonahill]

OH, I forgot, and legalizing abortion.

RR legalized Baby Murder?

[ictsooner7]

RR legalized Baby Murder?

YEP in california 1967. Need a link?

[olevetonahill]

YEP in california 1967. Need a link?
No I want yer Charts an Graphs and ****

[ictsooner7]

No I want yer Charts an Graphs and ****

Google it yerself, common knowledge.

[olevetonahill]

YEP in california 1967. Need a link?


Google it yerself, common knowledge.

Not fair, You volunteered

[yermom]

didn't Ronnie lower taxes?

to rates higher than the current ones...

[ictsooner7]

didn't Ronnie lower taxes?

to rates higher than the current ones...

YEP, and they call Obama a socialist.

[cleller]

OH, I forgot, and legalizing abortion.

You believe this should be illegal? Does Obama?

If not, it is something Reagan did that you support, and now you are trying to find fault with it at the same time?

And were taxes lower when Reagan took office, and he raised them, or is that more intentional inaccuracy?

[yermom]

St. Ronnie sure did and said a lot of things that conservatives like to forget about

[cleller]

St. Ronnie sure did and said a lot of things that conservatives like to forget about

I like to remember them, because he was a Republican that realized you can't go it all alone. You've got to find a way to pull in Democrats at odds with their party.

This bunch of "tax pledge" automaton puppet Republicans running the show now are all talk and no sense. I'm so sick of them pandering to the anti-abortion bunch. Leave it alone.

I'm on record here saying taxes must go up, and spending come down. Neither side will do it, though. Both sides are culpable.

[ictsooner7]

You believe this should be illegal? Does Obama?

If not, it is something Reagan did that you support, and now you are trying to find fault with it at the same time?

And were taxes lower when Reagan took office, and he raised them, or is that more intentional inaccuracy?

What does myself and Obama have to do with reagan legalizing abortion in CA in 1967?

Do you really need to have a primer on reagans tax record? Look it up.

[ictsooner7]

St. Ronnie sure did and said a lot of things that conservatives like to forget about

http://imthatold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/etch-a-sketch-magic-screen.jpg

It's a party tradition.

[ictsooner7]

I like to remember them, because he was a Republican that realized you can't go it all alone. You've got to find a way to pull in Democrats at odds with their party.

This bunch of "tax pledge" automaton puppet Republicans running the show now are all talk and no sense. I'm so sick of them pandering to the anti-abortion bunch. Leave it alone.

I'm on record here saying taxes must go up, and spending come down. Neither side will do it, though. Both sides are culpable.

I have to correct you here, the dems offered $3 Trillion in spending cuts and wanted just a $1 Trillion in tax increases and the repubs said no. So both sides aren't culpable. Teabaggers don't know when the accept victory.



I'm on record here saying taxes must go up, and spending come down.


Sounds like we agree on something.................................

[TUSooner]

I am so sick of these people constantly badmouthing Obama. It is so ridiculously obvious that anything wrong with the country today is really the fault of Calvin Coolidge. If I knew how, I'd make that last sentence have letters that were bigger and fatter than the one before, because I feel that strongly about it.

Just google "roaring 20s" and you'll probably see something about Calvin Coolidge. His attitude of prosperity, flappers, and wildcat oil has been the cause of the malaise we all face today. He was dumb, too. The only reason he wanted to be president was because he had friends that wanted to drill for oil. Its all that oil that Calvin Coolidge's rich friends made that has caused the whole Keystone Pipeline fiasco.
Remember 1929 was in the 1920s, The same decade Coolidge was president. And 1929 was when everyone came down with that depression that ended up causing World War II, so that was his fault too.

Sometimes I lie awake at night silently sobbing about the terrible things a former president can wreak on society. That, and the time I went camping.
When I do sleep, I see Calvin Coolidge in my dreams, grinning at me while holding a martini class full of oil in one hand, and the flyswatter my mom would spank me with in the the other.

I wish he had never been president. Either that, or that he was the all-time president, so I could blame him the rest of my life. He just loves oil and making money for his friends.
That is some poor satire even by our lame standards. <shakes head sadly> :D

Cal was the best, though!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You believe this should be illegal? Does Obama?

If not, it is something Reagan did that you support, and now you are trying to find fault with it at the same time?

And were taxes lower when Reagan took office, and he raised them, or is that more intentional inaccuracy?So, you are surprised that those here on the Left provide misleading arguments about stuff?(apparently, a presumption that conservatives think Reagan was perfect, made no mistakes, and didn't sometimes have to make deals with the left) His offering that Reagan did something we might not have liked is somehow a proof that Reagan wasn't a good president is ludicrous, and the little lefty offering it up knows that it's BS, or should know.

So, his argument is disgraceful and dishonest, as are almost all the ones provided by our Leftist brothers and sisters, here. Please don't be surprised.

[ictsooner7]

So, you are surprised that those here on the Left provide misleading arguments about stuff?(apparently, a presumption that conservatives think Reagan was perfect, made no mistakes, and didn't sometimes have to make deals with the left) His offering that Reagan did something we might not have liked is somehow a proof that Reagan wasn't a good president is ludicrous, and the little lefty offering it up knows that it's BS, or should know. So, his argument is disgraceful and dishonest, as are almost all the ones provided by our Leftist brothers and sisters, here.

What is misleading? He raised taxes more than he cut, he legalize abortion in CA and he ran on lowering the deficit and debt then tripled both. Tell me what part I got wrong.

Of course you’re missing the point about Reagan, he raised taxes, Obama has cut them. Obama didn’t triple the deficit, Reagan did. I don’t see you holding Reagan to the same standard as you hold Obama. For proof he wasn’t a good president, lower job growth with three times the debt that your favorite dem to hate, Carter had with just slightly higher GDP. Letting Syria kill 200+ Americans and cuttin’ and runnin’, trading arms for hostages. Those are disgraceful and dishonest!


http://imthatold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/etch-a-sketch-magic-screen.jpg

[pphilfran]

didn't Ronnie lower taxes?

to rates higher than the current ones...

There were deductions back then that have been repealed over the years...prior to 1986 you could write off all interest, not just mortgage interest..credit cad interest, car loans, you name it...IRA's were limited...depreciation was changed...

You can't just look at what the rate was at the time....

See Tax Reform Act of 1986

[cleller]

What does myself and Obama have to do with reagan legalizing abortion in CA in 1967?

Do you really need to have a primer on reagans tax record? Look it up.

I am trying to get you to answer the following question:
Do you believe abortion should be illegal? If so, do you support what you say Reagan did in CA in 1967?

If you can answer the question, great. I know plenty about Reagan. US was in the crapper when he arrived and running strong when he left.

[C&CDean]

I am trying to get you to answer the following question:
Do you believe abortion should be illegal? If so, do you support what you say Reagan did in CA in 1967?

If you can answer the question, great. I know plenty about Reagan. US was in the crapper when he arrived and running strong when he left.

icky wasn't even alive during Reagan. He doesn't have a clue what a good president is.

[cleller]

That is some poor satire even by our lame standards. <shakes head sadly> :D

Cal was the best, though!

If you had been on the receiving end of one of Cal's two-word conversations, you'd be singing out the other side of your tuba.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What is misleading? He raised taxes more than he cut, he legalize abortion in CA and he ran on lowering the deficit and debt then tripled both. Tell me what part I got wrong.
Nobody said they expected you to stop with the deception. As if...he WANTED to legalize abortion, haha. He rebuilt the US military that Carter decimated(how sad for you)

Of course you’re missing the point about Reagan, he raised taxes, Obama has cut them. Obama didn’t triple the deficit, Reagan did. I don’t see you holding Reagan to the same standard as you hold Obama. For proof he wasn’t a good president, lower job growth with three times the debt that your favorite dem to hate, Carter had with just slightly higher GDP. Letting Syria kill 200+ Americans and cuttin’ and runnin’, trading arms for hostages. Those are disgraceful and dishonest!



http://imthatold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/etch-a-sketch-magic-screen.jpgObear has spent more than all presidents before him. You forgot to mention that for some reason. Sorry Charlie, we're on to your sinister ways.

[ictsooner7]

Obear has spent more than all presidents before him. You forgot to mention that for some reason. Sorry Charlie, we're on to your sinister ways.

Are you so stupid and ill informed that you really believe the rightwing talking point that "Obear has spent more than all presidents before him". OH yeah, I forgot your sig says it all, ignorant and ill informed.

[ictsooner7]

I am trying to get you to answer the following question:
Do you believe abortion should be illegal? If so, do you support what you say Reagan did in CA in 1967?

If you can answer the question, great. I know plenty about Reagan. US was in the crapper when he arrived and running strong when he left.

AGAIN, what does it have to do with Reagan LEGALIZING abortion in CA in 1967? NOTHING, move on.

OK, let’s go with your premise, we were in a recession when we Reagan took office, why? Mainly interest rates were going to combat inflation that was there when carter took office. Who controls interest rates? The FED. More jobs and less debt than Reagan, with a slightly lowered GDP, which is from the increased debt he put on the country.

We were almost in a depression when Obama took over, but I don't see you saying how we are running strong now.

[ictsooner7]

icky wasn't even alive during Reagan. He doesn't have a clue what a good president is.

Right, I wasn't, just don't know what your talking about.

I saw you had a cardinals logo up on another thread, or did I not see it right?

[C&CDean]

You call another post "stupid" and refer to his sig after having one like yours? With a straight face?

Yeah, it's a Cardinal's logo.

[cleller]

AGAIN, what does it have to do with Reagan LEGALIZING abortion in CA in 1967? NOTHING, move on.



The only conclusion I can come to is that you support the decision Reagan made regarding abortion, yet you are criticizing him for it.
That's illogical.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

.

We were almost in a depression when Obama took over, but I don't see you saying how we are running strong now.Sparky, that maybe the MOST preposterous thing I've seen from you so far. Please read Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose", if you haven't yet. Then, get back with us.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The only conclusion I can come to is that you support the decision Reagan made regarding abortion, yet you are criticizing him for it.
That's illogical.They come up with stuff that is hard to imagine, it's so convoluted.

[ictsooner7]

The only conclusion I can come to is that you support the decision Reagan made regarding abortion, yet you are criticizing him for it.
That's illogical.

No you dumb@ss, we are criticizing YOU for conveniently forgetting he did.

[ictsooner7]

Sparky, that maybe the MOST preposterous thing I've seen from you so far. Please read Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose", if you haven't yet. Then, get back with us.

Tell me again what your degree is in. Mine's in finance and economics.

[ictsooner7]

You call another post "stupid" and refer to his sig after having one like yours? With a straight face?

Yeah, it's a Cardinal's logo.

I meant nick not sig, my bad.

Okie52 is a cards fan as am I.

[cleller]

No you dumb@ss, we are criticizing YOU for conveniently forgetting he did.

No one had even mentioned Reagan or abortion. You just brought it up out of the blue, trying to make it sound like it was something appalling he had done. (Which you support)

There was also an increase in sales of US flags under Reagan, did you plan to try and appall us with that, too?

[ictsooner7]

No one had even mentioned Reagan or abortion. You just brought it up out of the blue, trying to make it sound like it was something appalling he had done. (Which you support)

There was also an increase in sales of US flags under Reagan, did you plan to try and appall us with that, too?



Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement.

See.............let me say this slow and use small words so you can understand. It is appalling to YOU and he is your hero.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement.So now you're a ****'n dictionary...go tit.

[ictsooner7]

So now you're a ****'n dictionary...go tit.

Well it was obvious he doesn't understand what the word means.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Well it was obvious he doesn't understand what the word means.Whatever...Clown Pants.

[ictsooner7]

Whatever...Clown Pants.

got me didn't you?

mime shirt

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Tell me again what your degree is in. Mine's in finance and economics.So, did you read Free To Choose"?(or did you like John Maynard Keynes' so much you forgot to read about market economics?)

[cleller]

Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement.

See.............let me say this slow and use small words so you can understand. It is appalling to YOU and he is your hero.

Since I support abortion and have mentioned that several times, why should I be appalled? You have misstated the facts in your haste to try and save face. There is no need for you to use small words. I believe the reason is obvious.

[ictsooner7]

Since I support abortion and have mentioned that several times, why should I be appalled? You have misstated the facts in your haste to try and save face. There is no need for you to use small words. I believe the reason is obvious.

What is there to save face about, pubs hate abortion and love reagan, but they forget he legalized it.

[ictsooner7]

So, did you read Free To Choose"?(or did you like John Maynard Keynes' so much you forgot to read about market economics?)

AGAIN, what is your degree in? Tell me markets we have that you think are not free? There has to be regulations, look at what happened when there were none.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What is there to save face about, pubs hate abortion and love reagan, but they forget he legalized it.Did you forget to provide background on the vote, such as what the CA state legislature did to bring about the vote and what roll they had in approving it, and why you think that we might or should disfavor Reagan, thinking as lowly of him as we do about the hardcore socialists that now comprise the democrat parrty?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

AGAIN, what is your degree in? Tell me markets we have that you think are not free? There has to be regulations, look at what happened when there were none. AGAIN, Sparky, tell us your knowledge of market economics!

[ictsooner7]

AGAIN, Sparky, tell us your knowledge of market economics!

You waxing about economics, I told you degree in finance and economics, what is your degree in, IF you have one.

[cleller]

Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement.

See.............let me say this slow and use small words so you can understand. It is appalling to YOU and he is your hero.


Wait. Use small words. (and the dictionary). They suit you.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You waxing about economics, I told you degree in finance and economics, what is your degree in, IF you have one.I have a minor in Econ. NOW SPARKY, what do you know about market economics, and why is it the system that best suits us here on this planet?

[Turd_Ferguson]

**** all y'all...I got a PHD and I've used that bastard more times than I care to count...

http://www-2.gardentoolbox.co.uk/roughneck-post-hole-digger-double-00102655M.jpg

[ictsooner7]

I have a minor in Econ. NOW SPARKY, what do you know about market economics, and why is it the system that best suits us here on this planet?

Says who? You keep sighting one book, typical.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Says who? You keep sighting one book, typical.We're your students for a VERY abbreviated course in Econ 101, according to ictsooner7. Fire away!

[ictsooner7]

We're your students for a VERY abbreviated course in Econ 101, according to ictsooner7. Fire away!

You are one making the claims not me. I don't see you backing yours up.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You are one making the claims not me. I don't see you backing yours up.Icky...you ain't backed up your **** in 707 post...

[ictsooner7]

Icky...you ain't backed up your **** in 707 post...

Of course I have, remember graphs and charts? Now back yours up or shut up.

http://imthatold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/etch-a-sketch-magic-screen.jpg

[Turd_Ferguson]

Of course I have, remember graphs and charts? Now back yours up or shut up.

http://imthatold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/etch-a-sketch-magic-screen.jpgYour graphs and charts were stupid...they don't count.

[ictsooner7]

Your graphs and charts were stupid...they don't count.



Laughable idiot, mine come from the government, no lies staight data. assclown.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Laughable idiot, mine come from the government, no lies staight data. assclown.Whatever clown pants!

[olevetonahill]

Laughable idiot, mine come from the government, no lies staight data. assclown.

Some of the funniest shat you posted yet
Good jorb

[ictsooner7]

Some of the funniest shat you posted yet
Good jorb

facts dont lie jackass

[Turd_Ferguson]

facts dont lie jackassYou have to show some facts sweetheart...

[ictsooner7]

You have to show some facts sweetheart...

I do turdbucket

....noticing your not backing up your claim

winner winner chicken dinner

[diverdog]

didn't Ronnie lower taxes?

to rates higher than the current ones...

He massively increased payroll taxes.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I do turdbucket

....noticing your not backing up your claim

winner winner chicken dinner
No you don't Icky

...you haven't backed up ****

liar liar pants on fire

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Laughable idiot, mine come from the government, no lies staight data. assclown.You might not know squat about economics, but you sure know how to make a guy's head hurt!

[ictsooner7]

You might not know squat about economics, but you sure know how to make a guy's head hurt!

It's simply amazing, you read one book with your little minor in economics and your people thing you know everything about the economy, yet you simply make a claim then tell ME to disprove it without giving one piece of eveidence to back it up. I on the other hand have showed you repeatedly, charts and graphs about how under democratic presidents the gpd is higher, employment is higher and deficits are lower. Now, either backup your claims about how market based ecomonics is better or shut the ****up.

[ictsooner7]

Did you forget to provide background on the vote, such as what the CA state legislature did to bring about the vote and what roll they had in approving it, and why you think that we might or should disfavor Reagan, thinking as lowly of him as we do about the hardcore socialists that now comprise the democrat parrty?

THis statement proves how ignorant and stupid you are. Rightwing talking point all the way, "hardcore socialists that now comprise the democrat parrty?."

Do you not understand that the producer on fox "news" who started the whole obama is a socialists doesn't even believe it? You are just ignorant.

[pphilfran]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/gdp.jpg

[cleller]

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/mult.png

[TUSooner]

I AM RUSH LIMBAUGH's Parrot wouldn't know a "hardcore socialist" if one walked up to him and punched him in the mouth (which I would pay to see, by the way).

[Mississippi Sooner]

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/mult.png

I don't know what that is, but it looks pretty cool.

[olevetonahill]

I AM RUSH LIMBAUGH's Parrot wouldn't know a "hardcore socialist" if one walked up to him and punched him in the mouth (which I would pay to see, by the way).

So yer putting out a "HIT" on RLiMC now and advocating violence
Good jorb .

[ictsooner7]

So yer putting out a "HIT" on RLiMC now and advocating violence
Good jorb .


Now that is a laugh, a rightwinger accusing someone of advocating violence.

[ictsooner7]

I AM RUSH LIMBAUGH's Parrot wouldn't know a "hardcore socialist" if one walked up to him and punched him in the mouth (which I would pay to see, by the way).

hardcore socialist = anyone who does not agree with I AM RUSH LIMBAUGH's sphincter

What idiot is proud to be called a dittohead? Just blindly agreeing with whatever someone says.

[pphilfran]

hardcore socialist = anyone who does not agree with I AM RUSH LIMBAUGH's sphincter

What idiot is proud to be called a dittohead? Just blindly agreeing with whatever someone says.

Pot calling kettle black...you are just as blind as those you laugh at...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Correcto mundo on Calvin Coolidge. Frickin' utopian...

[olevetonahill]

Now that is a laugh, a rightwinger accusing someone of advocating violence.

He said He'd pay to see it
Thats Advocating IMHO

Since ya called me one Would you give me YOUR definition of a "Right Winger"?

[ictsooner7]

He said He'd pay to see it
Thats Advocating IMHO

Since ya called me one Would you give me YOUR definition of a "Right Winger"?

Someone, like you, who spews the ignorance of the right, IE; obama is a socialist and he is taking away our basic freedoms and/or you voted for bush.

[ictsooner7]

Pot calling kettle black...you are just as blind as those you laugh at...

My positions are backed up with facts and data, not leftwing talking points, unlike your positions that are backed up with hollow rightwing rhetoric. When all other agruements fail just pound the table and scream they are going to take our guns and they don't love Jesus.

[pphilfran]

My positions are backed up with facts and data, not leftwing talking points, unlike your positions that are backed up with hollow rightwing rhetoric. When all other agruements fail just pound the table and scream they are going to take our guns and they don't love Jesus.

Please show me one of my posts that has inaccurate information...

[olevetonahill]

Someone, like you, who spews the ignorance of the right, IE; obama is a socialist and he is taking away our basic freedoms and/or you voted for bush.

Show me where Ive said any of that Einstein
Just because I dont agree with YOU dont make me a Right winger.

Now run along yer not even Fun to play with anymore

[jkjsooner]

No one had even mentioned Reagan or abortion. You just brought it up out of the blue, trying to make it sound like it was something appalling he had done. (Which you support)

I agree with you that it seems a little misplaced to bring up something like abortion in this thread. It does seem to be a cheap way to win points by bringing up something irrelevant to the discussion.

That being said, ictsooner7's personal views on abortion are irrelevant. The criticism is less a criticism of Reagan's view on abortion (which ictsooner7 may or may not agree with) and more a criticism of the way social conservatives gloss over things that Reagan did that are contrary to their beliefs.


As an example, if anti-homosexuality were one of the major foundations of a social conservative platform, it would be relevant (though not in this thread) for me to bring up a point that one of the idols of the social conservative movement was gay or supported gay rights. I may believe in gay rights myself but that doesn't exclude my right to criticize you for not holding him to your own standard.

[jkjsooner]

Sparky, that maybe the MOST preposterous thing I've seen from you so far. Please read Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose", if you haven't yet. Then, get back with us.

I'm not an expert in these matters but I don't think you're going to win too many points after the recent financial crisis extolling the virtues of the Chicago School of Economics.

Frankly, if there's one thing I've learned over the past 10 years is that economists as a whole don't know nearly as much as they think they do. When I was getting a lot better predictions from commentators at thehousingbubbleblog.com than 99% of economists I pretty much lost faith in the profession. Those at the Chicago School seemed to be the most oblivious to what was going on in the real world.


Sure, they and your average Ayn Rand disciple will spin stories about why the financial crisis happened but I'll trust those economists who actually saw this coming before those who spun a web of reasons after the fact.

[ictsooner7]

I agree with you that it seems a little misplaced to bring up something like abortion in this thread. It does seem to be a cheap way to win points by bringing up something irrelevant to the discussion.

That being said, ictsooner7's personal views on abortion are irrelevant. The criticism is less a criticism of Reagan's view on abortion (which ictsooner7 may or may not agree with) and more a criticism of the way social conservatives gloss over things that Reagan did that are contrary to their beliefs.


As an example, if anti-homosexuality were one of the major foundations of a social conservative platform, it would be relevant (though not in this thread) for me to bring up a point that one of the idols of the social conservative movement was gay or supported gay rights. I may believe in gay rights myself but that doesn't exclude my right to criticize you for not holding him to your own standard.


It was simply a list of things saint reagan did that the right disagrees with that is now conveniently forgotten. How hard is that to understand?

[pphilfran]

How many of my inaccurate posts have you found?

[ictsooner7]

Please show me one of my posts that has inaccurate information...
Originally Posted by pphilfran
I gave you a link...told you the name of the company...LTCM..

Long-Term Capital Management did business with nearly everyone important on Wall Street. Indeed, much of LTCM's capital was composed of funds from the same Financial Professionals it traded with. As LTCM teetered, Wall Street feared that Long-Term's failure could cause a chain reaction in numerous markets, causing catastrophic losses throughout the financial system. After LTCM failed to raise more money on its own, it became clear it was running out of options. On September 23, 1998, Goldman Sachs, AIG, and Berkshire Hathaway offered then to buy out the fund's partners for $250 million, to inject $3.75 billion and to operate LTCM within Goldman's own trading division. The offer was stunningly low to LTCM's partners because at the start of the year their firm had been worth $4.7 billion. Warren Buffett gave Meriwether less than one hour to accept the deal; the time period lapsed before a deal could be worked out.[23]

Seeing no options left the Federal Reserve Bank of New York organized a bailout of $3.625 billion by the major creditors to avoid a wider collapse in the financial markets.[24] The principal negotiator for LTCM was general counsel James G. Rickards.[25] The contributions from the various institutions were as follows:[26][27]

$300 million: Bankers Trust, Barclays, Chase, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Salomon Smith Barney, UBS
$125 million: Société Générale
$100 million: Lehman Brothers, Paribas
Bear Stearns declined to participate.

In return, the participating banks got a 90% share in the fund and a promise that a supervisory board would be established. LTCM's partners received a 10% stake, still worth about $400 million, but this money was completely consumed by their debts. The partners once had $1.9 billion of their own money invested in LTCM, all of which was wiped out.[28]

The fear was that there would be a chain reaction as the company liquidated its securities to cover its debt, leading to a drop in prices, which would force other companies to liquidate their own debt creating a vicious cycle.

The total losses were found to be $4.6 billion. The losses in the major investment categories were (ordered by magnitude):[19]

$1.6 bn in swaps
$1.3 bn in equity volatility
$430 mn in Russia and other emerging markets
$371 mn in directional trades in developed countries
$286 mn in equity pairs (such as VW, Shell)
$215 mn in yield curve arbitrage
$203 mn in S&P 500 stocks
$100 mn in junk bond arbitrage
no substantial losses in merger arbitrage

Long Term Capital was audited by Price Waterhouse LLP. After the bailout by the other investors, the panic abated, and the positions formerly held by LTCM were eventually liquidated at a small profit to the rescuers.

Some industry officials said that Federal Reserve Bank of New York involvement in the rescue, however benign, would encourage large financial institutions to assume more risk, in the belief that the Federal Reserve would intervene on their behalf in the event of trouble. Federal Reserve Bank of New York actions raised concerns among some market observers that it could create moral hazard.[29]

LTCM's strategies were compared (a contrast with the market efficiency aphorism that there are no $100 bills lying on the street, as someone else has already picked them up) to "picking up nickels in front of a bulldozer"[30] – a likely small gain balanced against a small chance of a large loss, like the payouts from selling an out-of-the-money naked call option.
What the hell does this have to do with Bill Clinton? This is what this whole thread is about, take one thing that happened then try to pin in on a democrat. This WHOLE thing was PRIVATE INTERPRISE buying the assets and HEY LOOK AT THE NEXT PARAGRAPH FROM THE SAME PLACE YOU COPY AND PASTED FROM.

Typical rightwingnut trying to claim some how this is a Clinton bailout. LAUGHABLE, the only one who believes this is YOU! This what is wrong with our country, rightwingnuts make sh!t up to try to blame democrats for THEIR failures. You complain about Obama going from 7.7% unemployment to 8.3% and completely blame him, BUT BUSH taking it from 4.2% to 7.7% is someones elses fault. LAUGHABLE.


Aftermath

After the bailout, Long-Term Capital Management continued operations. In the year following the bailout, it earned 10%. By early 2000, the fund had been liquidated, and the consortium of banks that financed the bailout had been paid back; but the collapse was devastating for many involved. Mullins, once considered a possible successor to Alan Greenspan, saw his future with the Reserve dashed. The theories of Merton and Scholes took a public beating. In its annual reports, Merrill Lynch observed that mathematical risk models "may provide a greater sense of security than warranted; therefore, reliance on these models should be limited."[31]

After helping unwind LTCM, Meriwether launched JWM Partners. Haghani, Hilibrand, Leahy, and Rosenfeld all signed up as principals of the new firm. By December 1999, they had raised $250 million for a fund that would continue many of LTCM's strategies—this time, using less leverage.[32] With the Credit Crisis, JWM Partners LLC was hit with 44% loss from September 2007 to February 2009 in its Relative Value Opportunity II fund. As such, JWM Hedge Fund was shut down in July 2009.[33]

[ictsooner7]

pphilfran you claimed this was a clinton bailout and the money was not paid back. Two "inaccuracies" in one post.

[jkjsooner]

It was simply a list of things saint reagan did that the right disagrees with that is now conveniently forgotten. How hard is that to understand?

Hey, man, 90% of my post was defending you.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We are now all convinced capitalism and free markets are jack squat. Friedman and the Chicago school of economics are proven to be mistaken, and govt. is the only trustworthy way to do, well, everything. Why did it take so long for us private sector folks to catch on? It's cause we are stooooopid. Pls provide for us!

Calvin Coolidge HAD TO BE a pig.

[pphilfran]

LTCM happened on Clinton's watch and required billions....I don't believe I ever said the money was not paid back....the info came directly from Frontline....

LTCM didn't require a bailout?

[pphilfran]

This is every post from me in the thread where I brought up LTCM...please show me where I said they never paid the money back...

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?166386-Third-Anniversary-of-the-2009-Stimulus-Package/page3

Post #1 Bush was hardly alone in creating the economic mess...goes back a couple of decades...
With basically unlimited funding has the economic recovery met the goals set by the current administration?

Post #2 You should enjoy your amnesty...my money is on you not lasting the month...

Yes, the economic problems started decades ago...

Look up LTCM and the reasons they failed...look up Brooksley Born and Clinton's Working Group...

I will make it easy on ya...from the rightwing PBS Frontline...

In The Warning, veteran FRONTLINE producer Michael Kirk unearths the hidden history of the nation's worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the center of it all he finds Brooksley Born, who speaks for the first time on television about her failed campaign to regulate the secretive, multitrillion-dollar derivatives market whose crash helped trigger the financial collapse in the fall of 2008.

"I didn't know Brooksley Born," says former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt, a member of President Clinton's powerful Working Group on Financial Markets. "I was told that she was irascible, difficult, stubborn, unreasonable." Levitt explains how the other principals of the Working Group -- former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin -- convinced him that Born's attempt to regulate the risky derivatives market could lead to financial turmoil, a conclusion he now believes was "clearly a mistake."

Born's battle behind closed doors was epic, Kirk finds. The members of the President's Working Group vehemently opposed regulation -- especially when proposed by a Washington outsider like Born.

"I walk into Brooksley's office one day; the blood has drained from her face," says Michael Greenberger, a former top official at the CFTC who worked closely with Born. "She's hanging up the telephone; she says to me: 'That was [former Assistant Treasury Secretary] Larry Summers. He says, "You're going to cause the worst financial crisis since the end of World War II."... [He says he has] 13 bankers in his office who informed him of this. Stop, right away. No more.'"

Greenspan, Rubin and Summers ultimately prevailed on Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation of derivatives. "Born faced a formidable struggle pushing for regulation at a time when the stock market was booming," Kirk says. "Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves."

Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

"It'll happen again if we don't take the appropriate steps," Born warns. "There will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap over and over until we learn from experience."

Post #3 Why change the subject...

Clinton had a multi billion dollar meltdown during his watch...he had to go begging for money to work a bailout...his Working Group advisers discounted the eventual problems...and then advised Clinton to do nothing....which he took to heart...

They railroaded the person that was trying to bring concerns to the front prior to LTCM meltdown...

Like I said, there are more people in the boat than just Bush, and it goes back to bad decisions decades ago....

Post #4 (more to this post but you have already copied and pasted) I gave you a link...told you the name of the company...LTCM..

Long-Term Capital Management did business with nearly everyone important on Wall Street. Indeed, much of LTCM's capital was composed of funds from the same Financial Professionals it traded with. As LTCM teetered, Wall Street feared that Long-Term's failure could cause a chain reaction in numerous markets, causing catastrophic losses throughout the financial system. After LTCM failed to raise more money on its own, it became clear it was running out of options. On September 23, 1998, Goldman Sachs, AIG, and Berkshire Hathaway offered then to buy out the fund's partners for $250 million, to inject $3.75 billion and to operate LTCM within Goldman's own trading division. The offer was stunningly low to LTCM's partners because at the start of the year their firm had been worth $4.7 billion. Warren Buffett gave Meriwether less than one hour to accept the deal; the time period lapsed before a deal could be worked out.[23]

Post #5 You are such a hack...

The company went under in 1998...it's problems were ignored....the same thing happened on a larger scale 10 years later...

I am not trying to pin blame...you are trying to avoid looking at all causes and not looking at the entire cause of the meltdown...hell, I didn't even talk about Greenspan keeping interest rates low and causing the housing bubble...that went on for over 15 years..including the entire Clinton term...

Post #6 You harping about all the problems coming from one administrations is completely false...

Post #7 Damn, they were unwinding the company...it was liquidated...

Post #8 I guess we will have to agree to disagree...

I won't change my stance that the meltdown took a couple of decades of poor financial leadership...

You won't change your stance that Bush was solely responsible...

I will leave it at that...

Post #9 You won't hear me defending Gramm or the repeal of parts of the Glass–Steagall Act...Banks shouldn't be in investments and investment firms shouldn't be in banking...two completely different mind sets and risk/reward profiles...

Post #10 Where did I ever say I supported one party or another?

Post #11 No I don't...

I didn't have a problem with the bailouts...without them we would have suffered financial ruin...I did and do have a problem with how the money was distributed...I very much dislike the sale of Chrysler to Fiat...

Post #11 continues but does not discuss LTCM...post #11 was the last of my posts in the thread...

Please show me where I said they didn't pay the money back...

Who is being inaccurate now?

[pphilfran]

You can type all the BS you wish...but I will take exception when you put out statements about me that are not correct...

Like I said you are nothing but a left leaning hack and do as much as Rush clone to create discourse and spread inaccuracies by not telling the complete story, only the facts that support your view...

Screw ya...I won't put you on ignore due to the fact that I need a good laugh from time to time....

[TUSooner]

We are now all convinced capitalism and free markets are jack squat. Friedman and the Chicago school of economics are proven to be mistaken, and govt. is the only trustworthy way to do, well, everything. Why did it take so long for us private sector folks to catch on? It's cause we are stooooopid. Pls provide for us!

Calvin Coolidge HAD TO BE a pig.

Do you see in color, or is your whole world black and white?

[REDREX]

Check your Blood Pressure Phil----

[pphilfran]

Check your Blood Pressure Phil----260 over 190

[REDREX]

260 over 190---I had the over/under at 190/110

[ictsooner7]

LTCM happened on Clinton's watch and required billions....I don't believe I ever said the money was not paid back....the info came directly from Frontline....

LTCM didn't require a bailout?

1. what the **** did clinton have to do with it?

2. no government funds were used.

3. it was paid back, so what is the big deal?


jjjeeezzzz you were wrong..........get over it.

Typical rightwinger

[ictsooner7]

Hey, man, 90% of my post was defending you.

Sorry, I'm just use to being attacked.

[olevetonahill]

Sorry, I'm just use to being attacked.

LMFAO

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Do you see in color, or is your whole world black and white?Does color to you mean shades of gray...or does it mean pink?

[pphilfran]

1. what the **** did clinton have to do with it?

2. no government funds were used.

3. it was paid back, so what is the big deal?


jjjeeezzzz you were wrong..........get over it.

Typical rightwinger

Fine...I will give Clinton a pass on listening to his advisers (Working Group) about how the derivatives that LTCM was offering was not a bad thing and it could never happen again... as long as you say Bush had nothing to do with Iraq when he listened to his advisers on how to handle the WMD in Iraq...fair enough?

You are correct in that no Fed funds were used....the fed went looking for handouts and received billions from other firms to help keep the firm solvent....

The money was paid back but if you think investors did not lose money due to LTCM's risky portfolio you are sadly mistaken..

[ictsooner7]

Fine...I will give Clinton a pass on listening to his advisers (Working Group) about how the derivatives that LTCM was offering was not a bad thing and it could never happen again... as long as you say Bush had nothing to do with Iraq when he listened to his advisers on how to handle the WMD in Iraq...fair enough?

You are correct in that no Fed funds were used....the fed went looking for handouts and received billions from other firms to help keep the firm solvent....

The money was paid back but if you think investors did not lose money due to LTCM's risky portfolio you are sadly mistaken..

WOW you really do live in an alternate universe, don’t you? To compare a small, relatively speaking to all investment firms, investment firm and bush wmd’s which EVERYONE on the whole plant except for cheney was telling him they don’t exist are equal.

Working group = NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, yep equal.

You just keep proving your ignorance over and over. Stretching tiny things on the left to match into the huge massive ****ups on the right. People outside of you and your alternate universe just shake their heads and laugh.

[XingTheRubicon]

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+spell+alternate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[pphilfran]

WOW you really do live in an alternate universe, don’t you? To compare a small, relatively speaking to all investment firms, investment firm and bush wmd’s which EVERYONE on the whole plant except for cheney was telling him they don’t exist are equal.

Working group = NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, yep equal.

You just keep proving your ignorance over and over. Stretching tiny things on the left to match into the huge massive ****ups on the right. People outside of you and your alternant universe just shake their heads and laugh.

I am done with ya...if you cannot be civil I will have no further use for ya...

[olevetonahill]

I am done with ya...if you cannot be civil I will have no further use for ya...
The dude is nothin but a Flame Baiter

[pphilfran]

The dude is nothin but a Flame Baiter

I do not suggest we place him on ignore but if we fail to reply to his posts he will more than likely go away....

[sappstuf]

I am done with ya...if you cannot be civil I will have no further use for ya...

What? Why civil is ICT's middle name..

In-civil-ity

[OULenexaman]

which is why I quit on Monday....done with KC//Crimson.

[olevetonahill]

I do not suggest we place him on ignore but if we fail to reply to his posts he will more than likely go away....

I like yankin his chain LOL

[ictsooner7]

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+spell+alternate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

It's a typo. JJEEZZZ

[ictsooner7]

I am done with ya...if you cannot be civil I will have no further use for ya...

and I'm the one not being civil..........what a joke. Can't agrue the facts so attack the person.

[jkjsooner]

We are now all convinced capitalism and free markets are jack squat. Friedman and the Chicago school of economics are proven to be mistaken, and govt. is the only trustworthy way to do, well, everything. Why did it take so long for us private sector folks to catch on? It's cause we are stooooopid. Pls provide for us!

Calvin Coolidge HAD TO BE a pig.

As with everything else in your world it is all or nothing. If you want to make fraud or insider trading illegal you might as well completely abandon market economics. If you think innocent children deserve food and medical care even if their parents are lazy scum then you might as well embrace communism.

Most of us live in the real world and understand that not everything is an all or nothing choice.

[pphilfran]

As with everything else in your world it is all or nothing. If you want to make fraud or insider trading illegal you might as well completely abandon market economics. If you think innocent children deserve food and medical care even if their parents are lazy scum then you might as well embrace communism.

Most of us live in the real world and understand that not everything is an all or nothing choice.

Well said....