Against Obama's Heatlhcare Reform? You're Probably Racist.

[Midtowner]

In an experiment, Tesler presents a health care overhaul policy to whites, telling some that the policy is advocated by Bill Clinton and telling others that it's advocated by Barack Obama; Tesler finds that whites with liberal racial attitudes become more supportive of the policy when they think Obama is its chief advocate, while whites with a conservative attitude become less supportive of the policy when they think of health care as an Obama policy.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/03/20/148946156/how-do-racial-attitudes-affect-opinions-about-the-health-care-overhaul

[Midtowner]

Not sure I completely buy this without really looking at the methodology. That said, it is pretty interesting that whites with a conservative attitude tend to support health care reform if the Democrat offering it is white rather than black.

[okie52]

Not sure I completely buy this without really looking at the methodology. That said, it is pretty interesting that whites with a conservative attitude tend to support health care reform if the Democrat offering it is white rather than black.

But you don't find it noteworthy that white liberals support for healthcare increased if they thought the dem offering it was Black?

Both seem racist to me...if true.

Ironically, the 2 white presidents that proposed healthcare (Nixon and Clinton) plans were both defeated while Obama's was passed.

[Midtowner]

But you don't find it noteworthy that white liberals support for healthcare increased if they thought the dem offering it was Black?

I don't believe the study shows that at all. It shows that whites conservatives are more likely to support it if it's offered by a white President and that white liberals would support it regardless.

It should also be noted that blacks would overwhelmingly support Obama's proposal while being lukewarm to Clinton's.

It just goes to show you that whoever says race doesn't enter into things is full of ****.

[okie52]

I don't believe the study shows that at all. It shows that whites conservatives are more likely to support it if it's offered by a white President and that white liberals would support it regardless.

It should also be noted that blacks would overwhelmingly support Obama's proposal while being lukewarm to Clinton's.

It just goes to show you that whoever says race doesn't enter into things is full of ****.

We must be reading 2 different quotes:


Tesler finds that whites with liberal racial attitudes become more supportive of the policy when they think Obama is its chief advocate, while whites with a conservative attitude become less supportive of the policy when they think of health care as an Obama policy.

[Midtowner]

We must be reading 2 different quotes:

Note that it doesn't say that white attitudes towards reform decrease when it's known that it's Bill Clinton. Just that conservative positives increase.

[soonerhubs]

Here's a link to the original paper. (http://mst.michaeltesler.com/uploads/ajps11full.pdf)

Here's another link. (http://tert.ucr.edu/public/UCLA2010/tesler.pdf)

Interesting study.

[okie52]

Note that it doesn't say that white attitudes towards reform decrease when it's known that it's Bill Clinton. Just that conservative positives increase.

It also says whites with liberal racial attitudes support increases. Why would that be?

[Midtowner]

It also says whites with liberal racial attitudes support increases. Why would that be?

That race is a factor. I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that whites are biased against whites. Speculatively, I'd say that it's more likely that racial liberals tend to support Obama to a greater degree because they feel compelled to defend him against racist attackers.

[okie52]

That race is a factor. I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that whites are biased against whites. Speculatively, I'd say that it's more likely that racial liberals tend to support Obama to a greater degree because they feel compelled to defend him against racist attackers.

Oh God...did objectivity just leave the room? You don't have any problem drawing conclusions that white conservatives are racist if they "support the white guy more" but can't make the same distinction about white liberals supporting the black guy more...they are just defending him against racist attackers. So the libs are noble and really not racist at all for defending the black guy while the conservatives are just racist.

Geez.

[sappstuf]

Oh God...did objectivity just leave the room? You don't have any problem drawing conclusions that white conservatives are racist if they "support the white guy more" but can't make the same distinction about white liberals supporting the black guy more...they are just defending him against racist attackers. So the libs are noble and really not racist at all for defending the black guy while the conservatives are just racist.

Geez.

You're on record as stating it!!

[okie52]

You're on record as stating it!!

It was obviously the only possible objective conclusion.

[XingTheRubicon]

The lion's share of conservatives hated Clinton's guts...and he was actually a pretty effective president.

Most conservatives don't have the same hatred for him now. Time and reflection have a funny way of shaping your thoughts.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Where's that race card link??? It needs to be posted here... This will get ugly, everything will be the Race Card...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'll give over/under of 7 pages on this thread. Race or religion is a sure fire bet every time.

[Curly Bill]

I'll give over/under of 7 pages on this thread. Race or religion is a sure fire bet every time.

I got the under on this...but just barely.

[sooner_born_1960]

Yeah, that's probably why I'm against it.

[Curly Bill]

If I'm against it because I'm not a fan of the creeping onset of socialism what does that make me?

[okie52]

If I'm against it because I'm not a fan of the creeping onset of socialism what does that make me?

Evidently a racist. It's the only logical explanation.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I admit it. I'm racist against Kansans. Anybody born from a Kansan should be seen as suspect.

[Curly Bill]

I'm racist against rats and mice - can't stand em! Cockroaches too!

[OULenexaman]

I'm racist against rats and mice - can't stand em! Cockroaches too! what about the white mice?? and white rats?? Surely there has been a study on that too...

[Curly Bill]

what about the white mice?? and white rats?? Surely there has been a study on that too...

Well...I'm not as much against white mice and white rats! LOL

[Turd_Ferguson]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8yBmwXW4XEM/S0q5KGBUpkI/AAAAAAAADFg/Q4V5rTJpa_g/s400/a+walks+on+water.jpg

[okie52]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8yBmwXW4XEM/S0q5KGBUpkI/AAAAAAAADFg/Q4V5rTJpa_g/s400/a+walks+on+water.jpg

LOL

Proven beyond a doubt.

[TitoMorelli]

I admit it. I'm racist against Kansans. Anybody born from a Kansan should be seen as suspect.

YWtUL5Rx364

[Curly Bill]

Josey Wales crossed my mind too.

[dwarthog]

The lion's share of conservatives hated Clinton's guts...and he was actually a pretty effective president.

Most conservatives don't have the same hatred for him now. Time and reflection have a funny way of shaping your thoughts.

Great insight.

[SicEmBaylor]

I admit it. I'm racist against Kansans. Anybody born from a Kansan should be seen as suspect.
F'n John Brown yankees.

Lawrence -- the town so nice they sacked it twice!

[Bourbon St Sooner]

F'n John Brown yankees.

Lawrence -- the town so nice they sacked it twice!

Yeah, but all the women get sacked a hell of a lot more than that.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah, but all the women get sacked a hell of a lot more than that.
Like I said, I should move to Kansas.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I can't believe this thread hasn't at least gotten to page 3 yet. What are you guys doing? Watching women's basketball.

[OULenexaman]

NOOOOOOO!!!

[Sooner98]

The lion's share of conservatives hated Clinton's guts...and he was actually a pretty effective president.

Most conservatives don't have the same hatred for him now. Time and reflection have a funny way of shaping your thoughts.

I think it's because, economically, Obama makes Bill Clinton look like Adam Smith.

[Midtowner]

I think it's because, economically, Obama makes Bill Clinton look like Adam Smith.

Well, Glass-Steagall was repealed during the Clinton administration, which is largely responsible for our financial collapse... So ummm yay Clinton?

[StoopTroup]

If I'm against it because I'm not a fan of the creeping onset of socialism what does that make me?

Creeping?

You need to just accept that there are parts of America that are already part of our Country's Socialist Programs that both party's have absorbed as an acceptable way to combat the Countries that have the strict policies that you seem to admire. The beauty of our system is that we have never been afraid to give something a try or change it if it doesn't work. It's been America's Strength. What I see from the GOP is fear and the idea that everything is a conspiracy. I agree that going backwards does need to happen sometimes but the current stand off in Congress and this fear the GOP seems to have is more because of the mistakes of the Bush Administration than the current Administration. Don't think that the Dems ate trying to turn this Country into a Socialist Country just because Fox News and Limbaugh say it's so. The truth is that we were closer to the GOP turning it into one and trying to lay the blame on this administration than ever before. The GOP won't die as long as the ones that are in power now are dealt with by the Party. Ignore them and your fears are valid. They will turn America towards a socialism. You are right but you just are blaming the wrong villian IMO.

[Curly Bill]

What?

[StoopTroup]

Your lost again. Hit your Life Alert button. They will come and get you.

[cleller]

Why are there so many inane studies to measure the racism of whites? Ever seen a serious study in to racism in blacks, hispanics?

That sounds racist to me. This stuff serves no purpose but to drive more wedges. The solution is more basic. Expect the same level of behavior from everyone instead of going out of your way to create resentment.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Why are there so many inane studies to measure the racism of whites? Ever seen a serious study in to racism in blacks, hispanics?

That sounds racist to me. This stuff serves no purpose but to drive more wedges. The solution is more basic. Expect the same level of behavior from everyone instead of going out of your way to create resentment.The Dem's thrive on racism and they know it. They won't admit it, but they know it.

[SicEmBaylor]

Creeping?

You need to just accept that there are parts of America that are already part of our Country's Socialist Programs that both party's have absorbed as an acceptable way to combat the Countries that have the strict policies that you seem to admire.
I can't make heads or tails of this lunacy, so I'm going to 'nod' politely and back away slowly.


The beauty of our system is that we have never been afraid to give something a try or change it if it doesn't work. It's been America's Strength.
The beauty of our system is that it was designed in such a way that the states themselves would be the incubators for social change and "experimental labs" of social policy. Each state could craft policy that best fit the citizens of that state. That policy would be crafted by state officials who live in your community, shop at the same stores, worship in the same churches, etc. etc. The point being that the government closest to you is the most accessible.

Obamacare is not that. Obamacare is the antithesis of those principles. Obamacare is poorly crafted policy (regardless of whether you agree or disagree with its intent or premise) that disregards the 10th amandmant and brings a major sector of the economy under government oversight and direction. The mandated coverage requirement goes so far beyond what is the proper limitation of the Federal government that it's breathtaking. This isn't just "creeping socialism" -- this is rapid centralization.

You're absolutely wrong that we change things that don't work. That has almost never been the case. The Federal government neither changes nor drops things that don't work -- they double down.


What I see from the GOP is fear and the idea that everything is a conspiracy.
This is absolutely no different than the left.


I agree that going backwards does need to happen sometimes
Good! We agree! I can list the number of ways we need to "go backwards" all day, but I'd like to know when and where you think we should regress...purely out of curiosity.


but the current stand off in Congress and this fear the GOP seems to have is more because of the mistakes of the Bush Administration than the current Administration.
This is a result of D.C.'s political culture which has been changing since the 90s. If you really want to point fingers at when politics in D.C. started to become a zero-sum game then the early Clinton administration is your culprit.

Don't think that the Dems ate trying to turn this Country into a Socialist Country just because Fox News and Limbaugh say it's so.
Correct. They're trying to turn it into a socialist country regardless of whether Fox News or Rush Limbaugh say it's so. This is neither earth shattering nor recent news nor is it a problem associated with just the left and Democrats.

The truth is that we were closer to the GOP turning it into one and trying to lay the blame on this administration than ever before.
There is truth in this statement.

The GOP won't die as long as the ones that are in power now are dealt with by the Party.
I can't make sense of this.

Ignore them and your fears are valid.
..or this.


They will turn America towards a socialism.
Yes, they will. They do so along with Democrats and liberals. Blaming Republicans certainly does not let the Democrats or liberals off the hook.

You are right but you just are blaming the wrong villian IMO.
And you need to blame all the villains...not just Republicans.

[Midtowner]

Most people believe that Obama thought of it, then it must be bad policy since his is a horrific president. Most people won't read or understand the ramifications of the policy. They just know Obama is an idiot.

If the former editor of the Harvard Law Review, born to a lower-middle-class family, unlike the trust fund babies we've had since Bush I, who was elected to the Senate at the young age of 44 and then to the Presidency just a few short years later is an idiot, what does that make you?

[Turd_Ferguson]

If the former editor of the Harvard Law Review, born to a lower-middle-class family, unlike the trust fund babies we've had since Bush I, who was elected to the Senate at the young age of 44 and then to the Presidency just a few short years later is an idiot, what does that make you?You know damn good and well why he was elected.

[Curly Bill]

Your lost again. Hit your Life Alert button. They will come and get you.

You telling anyone else that they are lost is ironic in the extreme.

[cleller]

Who do like better Clinton or Obama? By the way, if you say Clinton, you're a racist.

[StoopTroup]

You telling anyone else that they are lost is ironic in the extreme.

Check the batteries. Also if you are using rechargables go back to regular alkaline batteries. They work better in some devices.

[StoopTroup]

You know damn good and well why he was elected.

Because Oprah said to?

[ictsooner7]

You know damn good and well why he was elected.

Because more people voted for him than mccain

[ictsooner7]

You know damn good and well why he was elected.


http://www.sundayschoolmaterial.net/raising%20hands.gif

ooooh, ooooh...........................because ACRON stole the election!

[StoopTroup]

Set the hook !

[cleller]

So you are faced with two choices. You either support sex offenders, and ObamaCare, or you are a racist.