My Health Insurance

[KantoSooner]

...Just announced another 25% increase effective next month.

I don't smoke, I am not in a particular risk group. I had minor outpatient surgery last June.

I'm done with these fools. I want nationalized, single payer health care. Now. I've never been treated this shabbily in any of the three nationalized plans under which I've lived as an adult.

[Curly Bill]

Brack to the rescue!

[Midtowner]

Brack to the rescue!

True. Soon, insurance companies will not be able to raise their rates that much without an explanation. They'll be required to spend 80% of their revenue on paying claims. Further, they won't be able to get away with charging more than everyone else, because they'll have to put their prices and benefits online, side by side with their competitors.

[okie52]

True. Soon, insurance companies will not be able to raise their rates that much without an explanation. They'll be required to spend 80% of their revenue on paying claims. Further, they won't be able to get away with charging more than everyone else, because they'll have to put their prices and benefits online, side by side with their competitors.

I thought lack of competition was one of the problems.

[Midtowner]

I thought lack of competition was one of the problems.

It is. The exchanges fix that.

[okie52]

It is. The exchanges fix that.

How?

[sappstuf]

Obama said that Obamacare would save the average family $2500. He overestimated, of course, but the good news is, you only have to wait until 2019!


“Many of the changes in the Affordable Care Act are starting this year, and in succeeding years,” DeParle told ABC News, “and by 2019 we estimate that the average family will save around $2,000.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/new-study-underlines-unfulfilled-promises-of-health-care-bill/

I'm sure you don't mind waiting that long for theoretical savings...

[Midtowner]

How?

Until these exchanges exist, there is no way to view plans side by side and make a choice based on price and quality. Plans are going to be simplified into tiers. You'll have a much better idea as to what you get for your money and how your plan stacks up side by side with the competition.

[okie52]

Until these exchanges exist, there is no way to view plans side by side and make a choice based on price and quality. Plans are going to be simplified into tiers. You'll have a much better idea as to what you get for your money and how your plan stacks up side by side with the competition.

There still won't be any increase in competition, just a simplification for the consumer in understanding their policy.

[Midtowner]

There still won't be any increase in competition, just a simplification for the consumer in understanding their policy.

So you don't think insurers will experience any pressure to lower prices when having to stand side by side with other companies of greater or lesser prices? In your world, is health insurance the only thing which is exempt from having folks choose a product based upon price as one of the considered factors?

[REDREX]

Anyone that thinks Obama care will lower prices and improve medical services is a fool

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I want a Philly cheesesteak for lunch. Yummy.

[okie52]

So you don't think insurers will experience any pressure to lower prices when having to stand side by side with other companies of greater or lesser prices? In your world, is health insurance the only thing which is exempt from having folks choose a product based upon price as one of the considered factors?

In my world, LOL, half azz attempts aren't going to get us there. So all carriers (or what few there are in a state) will just offer the same coverages at roughly the same price once standardized coverages (or there limits) are put in place. I'm for competition and rate reductions but Obamacare isn't doing that. If the Euros, Canadians, Aussies, etc... have much cheaper rates then we should embrace their systems almost in total...not pick and choose parts that may have little or no effect on the cost outcomes.

Now all of those systems also have loser pays but I'll bet you'll have plenty of reasons why we shouldn't embrace that aspect of their system. I just want what is best and a decision will have to be made where we sacrifice to achieve it. So far it appears that if we want universal coverage and lower costs we will have to give up quality and timeliness of care.

[pphilfran]

Anybody ever watch Fareed Zakaria? He has some great ideas and supposedly has Obama's ear....(not literally)...

He had a special last night....GPS Special: Global Lessons – The GPS Road Map for Saving Heath Care.

I missed it but it will re air this Sat at 7 and 10 pm...

If you want to stay informed this is a must watch...

At this link he is discussing some other health care systems...

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/category/health/

[Curly Bill]

Anyone that thinks Obama care will lower prices and improve medical services is a fool

This

[KantoSooner]

Our current system costs us 19% of GDP. Other modern economies spend between 7-10%. And those other systems deliver objectively better results.
Their citizens are healthier than we are. And that includes the Aussies who are (drawing huge stereotypes) essentially Irish/Greek dypsomaniacs who smoke all the time and hang out shirtless in the sun. (Well, not all, but they are certainly a fair comparison in terms of ethnicity and lifestyle to us Americans).
Their doctors might not make what american doctors make....but the ones I know drive benz's and holiday in Europe. They are far from beaten down government functionaries.
And they don't have death panels, nor do they wait excessively for care.

Our 'system' is ridiculously priced and, at best, mediocre in delivery of results. Why should we not investigate the options?

[Ton Loc]

This

That how I feel about most things coming from our government. Sounds like a good idea at first but then I just wait for the two sides to **** it up to the point that the original idea is lost.

Good times!

[Midtowner]

Anyone that thinks Obama care will lower prices and improve medical services is a fool

About 98% of folks in Massachusetts have healthcare coverage under RomneyCare. Cost trends have gone up (like the rest of the nation), but there is a new trend emerging with lower cost providers offering plans with fewer choices at lower rates. Being able to compete side-by-side with the other plans, prospects are good for these companies.

And if the Affordable Care Act fails? I think it just tells us that we either need a single payer system, need to just socialize the whole damned thing or something else. The status quo is unsustainable.

[diverdog]

Our current system costs us 19% of GDP. Other modern economies spend between 7-10%. And those other systems deliver objectively better results. Their citizens are healthier than we are. And that includes the Aussies who are (drawing huge stereotypes) essentially Irish/Greek dypsomaniacs who smoke all the time and hang out shirtless in the sun. (Well, not all, but they are certainly a fair comparison in terms of ethnicity and lifestyle to us Americans). Their doctors might not make what american doctors make....but the ones I know drive benz's and holiday in Europe. They are far from beaten down government functionaries. And they don't have death panels, nor do they wait excessively for care. Our 'system' is ridiculously priced and, at best, mediocre in delivery of results. Why should we not investigate the options?Do you know anything about the Swiss system?

[pphilfran]

Do you know anything about the Swiss system?

Waving arm: "I do, I do!"

[Turd_Ferguson]

Until these exchanges exist, there is no way to view plans side by side and make a choice based on price and quality. Plans are going to be simplified into tiers. You'll have a much better idea as to what you get for your money and how your plan stacks up side by side with the competition.So, we have to pass it before we know whats in it...right?

[SCOUT]

Until these exchanges exist, there is no way to view plans side by side and make a choice based on price and quality.
Why not? I literally do this exact thing every year when selecting the benefits for our company.

[East Coast Bias]

Why not? I literally do this exact thing every year when selecting the benefits for our company.
How many folks actually get to choose their insurance company now? Or do most of us go to work for a company and participate in the plan they offer? Sure you can have a la carte choices for how your plan is configured but can you really pick the insurance company?

[REDREX]

So you don't think insurers will experience any pressure to lower prices when having to stand side by side with other companies of greater or lesser prices? In your world, is health insurance the only thing which is exempt from having folks choose a product based upon price as one of the considered factors?---Where do people come up with this?---We compare providers every year or so-----Not hard to do at all

[Sooner5030]

some think that expanding health care and health insurance coverage along with expanding what treatments are covered will reduce costs?

I think those people are f-ing dolts.

I'm sure a nationalized plan that covers "free" Ritalin, Prozac, Viagra, BC, preventive, routine and selective care will win over the majority of the MOB, FSA, and voters. I think it will bankrupt our country.....if that is even possible.

I wouldn't mind a nationalized plan like the VA. Provide a baseline coverage of care (no selective care) and charge a separate tax (something like 4% of income) and cover everyone. Let wealthy folks buy insurance or health care plans that include all the great stuff and no lines, good drugs, and the ability to not go to the same provider as the general (walmart) population.

this will never happen though, med-tech/PHARMA/Insurance are too strong at lobbying.

we need a cultural fix too.......make being fat and lazy taboo.

[Midtowner]

---Where do people come up with this?---We compare providers every year or so-----Not hard to do at all

And soon, it'll be easier.

That's bad how?

[soonercruiser]

...Just announced another 25% increase effective next month.

I don't smoke, I am not in a particular risk group. I had minor outpatient surgery last June.

I'm done with these fools. I want nationalized, single payer health care. Now. I've never been treated this shabbily in any of the three nationalized plans under which I've lived as an adult.

Why not just move back to get one of those "three nationalized plans"???

I want free greens fees!

[soonercruiser]

Our current system costs us 19% of GDP. Other modern economies spend between 7-10%. And those other systems deliver objectively better results.
Their citizens are healthier than we are. And that includes the Aussies who are (drawing huge stereotypes) essentially Irish/Greek dypsomaniacs who smoke all the time and hang out shirtless in the sun. (Well, not all, but they are certainly a fair comparison in terms of ethnicity and lifestyle to us Americans).
Their doctors might not make what american doctors make....but the ones I know drive benz's and holiday in Europe. They are far from beaten down government functionaries.
And they don't have death panels, nor do they wait excessively for care.

Our 'system' is ridiculously priced and, at best, mediocre in delivery of results. Why should we not investigate the options?

How much of GDP does SS, Medicare, welfare, and food stamps account for??
Are you a doctor?
Would you really know much about the freedom in healthcare in other countries that patients and doctors have??
Europe??

[REDREX]

And soon, it'll be easier.

That's bad how?---Its not hard now-----You are stuck on a talking point

[Midtowner]

---Its not hard now-----You are stuck on a talking point

And you are stuck on denying the undeniable. The ACA will improve healthcare access dramatically, just as it did in Massachusetts. The question will be price control. It'll be a different game for insurers. They know that a public option or single payer is around the corner if they can't keep things under control.

[REDREX]

And you are stuck on denying the undeniable. The ACA will improve healthcare access dramatically, just as it did in Massachusetts. The question will be price control. It'll be a different game for insurers. They know that a public option or single payer is around the corner if they can't keep things under control.---Maybe if you provided health insurance to your employees you too would have the ACTUAL experience of looking at insurance options

[Midtowner]

---Maybe if you provided health insurance to your employees you too would have the ACTUAL experience of looking at insurance options

I personally have nothing to do with national healthcare policy. If you think I do, then you lack the intelligence and understanding to continue in this conversation.

[REDREX]

I personally have nothing to do with national healthcare policy. If you think I do, then you lack the intelligence and understanding to continue in this conversation.---And once again Midtowner runs for cover---I am still waiting to hear how the Reps blocked any part of Obamacare with the Dems having the house and 60 votes in the Senate

[pphilfran]

---Maybe if you provided health insurance to your employees you too would have the ACTUAL experience of looking at insurance options

Red, you miss the point...

If no one is mandated to offer health care then many will not due to financials....he is just a small business and if he offered health care and absorbed the loss he could become non competitive when compared to those that don't offer the benefit...

As a side note many companies limit full time employment and load up on part timers to avoid benefits...

[REDREX]

Red, you miss the point...

If no one is mandated to offer health care then many will not due to financials....he is just a small business and if he offered health care and absorbed the loss he could become non competitive when compared to those that don't offer the benefit...

As a side note many companies limit full time employment and load up on part timers to avoid benefits...---Love you like a brother Phil----But I do not miss the point---- We provide employee healthcare we are a small company and we have a number of providers to choose from. It is part of the cost of having someone work for you

[pphilfran]

---Love you like a brother Phil----But I do not miss the point---- We provide employee healthcare we are a small company and we have a number of providers to choose from. It is part of the cost of having someone work for you

Some will offer but others will not...and that will put some businesses under some financial pressure...

We are all currently paying for the non insured right now...if everybody were to be insured they would more than likely use cheaper resources than the emergency room that they currently use...

I can pizz everybody off with my stance..

Everyone should be insured with basic, catastrophic coverage...
Basic coverage should not be for the day to day items and only for the more expensive procedures...
Premiums should be basically the same and not take into account lifestyle...
A basic policy should be non profit, profits are made on additional coverage that the consumer chooses...private room, lower deducts, birth control (ahem)....

[TUSooner]

Well, whatever the benefits and drawbacks of Obamacare, Kanto makes a good point in response to all the gushing we heard, before Obamacare passed, about how wonderful our "system" is. I kept thinking back then,"What's happened to all the people I've always heard griping about their expensive, stingy, and obstinate med insurance companies?!" I assumed they were bought off or suffered collective temporary amnesia brought on by the fear of socialized medicine.

[KantoSooner]

Why not just move back to get one of those "three nationalized plans"???

I want free greens fees!

Alternatively, we could actually fix the piece of crap we have now. Just an idea.

[pphilfran]

Obamacare was more about getting people into a plan and not so much about controlling costs...though getting people into a plan will help costs...

[pphilfran]

Our care is fine and our wait for a procedure is acceptable...

The problems are that costs are out of line and we have far too many people without insurance...and when you attempt to lower future cost increases you must try to limit the negative affect on care quality

[TheHumanAlphabet]

It is. The exchanges fix that.

Horse hockey! The 25% increase is because of Brack's Folly!

[Midtowner]

Horse hockey! The 25% increase is because of Brack's Folly!

Explain.

[Midtowner]

Some will offer but others will not...and that will put some businesses under some financial pressure...

We are all currently paying for the non insured right now...if everybody were to be insured they would more than likely use cheaper resources than the emergency room that they currently use...

I can pizz everybody off with my stance..

Everyone should be insured with basic, catastrophic coverage...
Basic coverage should not be for the day to day items and only for the more expensive procedures...
Premiums should be basically the same and not take into account lifestyle...
A basic policy should be non profit, profits are made on additional coverage that the consumer chooses...private room, lower deducts, birth control (ahem)....

We already have that basic coverage. It's called the emergency room and the bankruptcy code.

Why fix what ain't broke? /sarc

[KantoSooner]

How much of GDP does SS, Medicare, welfare, and food stamps account for??
Are you a doctor?
Would you really know much about the freedom in healthcare in other countries that patients and doctors have??
Europe??

How much do SS etc account for? I don't know precisely, but about 30-35% if memory serves.
Which takes us back, Over Here! Sooner! On The Path!, to the issue of health care.

I am not a doctor. I am a consumer of healthcare products and services. I have lived under the Australian, Singaporean and Japanese systems. I have employed people in all three countries who were covered.

I am fully ready to have some doctor from any of these countries come forward with horror tales. If so, I'll be ready to take that on board. I have of course had professional encounters with doctors in all three places. Additionally, I have had social contact with more than a few others. At no time, under any circumstances (in their offices, playing golf, drunk at a barbecue, never) have any of them evinced any serious dissatisfaction or frustration with their national systems. The Japanese did sigh deeply regarding the relatively backward condition of their country in the area of transplantation of organs due to Buddhist strictures on keeping the body whole. That's it.

They all, to a man/woman felt the US system was bizarre, highly inefficient and a place where they would rather not practice. And about half had been trained in the US.

I have no personal knowledge of Europe, but it would appear demonstrative of something that National Health is the most highly regarded branch of the English government and the one in which the British people take the most pride.

As to the thinly veiled suggestion that, if I don't like things as they are, I should go back to wherever I prefer, I will counter suggest that it is rather unamerican to squat, in juvenile stubbornness, in the mire instead of fixing the problem.

When we can look around the world and see systems that are acheiving better results at far less cost, it requires a special kind of obstinance to refuse to check them out. When inflation is running, maybe, 1.5% and insurance goes up 25% without so much as a kiss and call back in the morning, the very least a conscientious citizen should do is ask WTF is up with that.

[okie52]

MidTowner or anyone else-Does Obama care provide coverage for pre-existing conditions and does it include portability?

[sappstuf]

Obamacare was more about getting people into a plan and not so much about controlling costs...though getting people into a plan will help costs...

Before the Obamacare debate started 85% of Americans had health insurance and of those people around 87% were happy with their insurance.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/mar/10/george-will/will-says-95-percent-people-health-insurance-are-s/

This is why Obama had to promise that if you like your insurance, you could keep it.

Was radically changing our healthcare system for 15% of the population really necessary? Midtowner keeps saying that Obamacare will "dramatically increase access to care." To whom? 5% of the population are vagrants and will never join anything.. They will continue to show up at ERs and live in their own world. The cost to society from those people will not decrease. So we are talking about 10% of the population.. We changed everything for 10%.

I don't think approval for Obamacare has ever reached 50%, if so, not for long.. Do you honestly believe that Obamacare will ever reach 85% approval? Slim and none... Slim and none.

The problem with healthcare was with cost... That is pretty much the one thing that Obamacare doesn't touch. After Obamacare was passed, spending on healthcare went above the baseline that it did without.

He could have tried to tackle the problem with cost, but he didn't. He "solved" a problem that didn't exist.

[Midtowner]

Beginning in 2014, the ACA will prevent the exclusion of folks with preexisting conditions and yes, it includes benefits portability.

[okie52]

Thanks.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Pretty sure Obama and his cronies had the foresight to see this coming. They also knew our citizens would be forgetful and fall for it much like the original poster.

Their goal is to have a single payer, but society really doesn't want that and the vast majority was satisfied with their coverage. How do you change people's opinion, especially when passing something so unpopular? Well, bank on greed, ignorance and time.

First they pass a bill that basically puts a time limit on insurance companies to make much money(they only have about a 4% profit margin now). However, they don't really put a restraint on raising premiums. So, insurance companies do what Obama and his cronies knew they would do. They raise their premiums and try to make as much money as they can before obamacare really kicks in.

All most Americans will see is that the dirty, old insurance companies are gouging Americans, but not really look at why. That is when obama and his cronies will come in and say thatobamacer will save us from the mean old insurance companies.

See, cause a crisis and prescribe a government solution. The op fell for it hook line and sinker, just like Obama banked on.

Seriously, do people really like to be manipulated like this?Hammer meet nail!

[Midtowner]

Pretty sure Obama and his cronies had the foresight to see this coming. They also knew our citizens would be forgetful and fall for it much like the original poster.

Their goal is to have a single payer, but society really doesn't want that and the vast majority was satisfied with their coverage. How do you change people's opinion, especially when passing something so unpopular? Well, bank on greed, ignorance and time.

First they pass a bill that basically puts a time limit on insurance companies to make much money(they only have about a 4% profit margin now). However, they don't really put a restraint on raising premiums. So, insurance companies do what Obama and his cronies knew they would do. They raise their premiums and try to make as much money as they can before obamacare really kicks in.

All most Americans will see is that the dirty, old insurance companies are gouging Americans, but not really look at why. That is when obama and his cronies will come in and say thatobamacer will save us from the mean old insurance companies.

See, cause a crisis and prescribe a government solution. The op fell for it hook line and sinker, just like Obama banked on.

Seriously, do people really like to be manipulated like this?

I'm pretty sure this system was built to #1 create an expectation of healthcare for 100% of the population and #2 to fail, giving electoral advantage to Democrats and to allow them to fill the void with something like single payer or a public option.

I'm fine with that.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm pretty sure Therein lies the problem...

[REDREX]

Medicare fraud V. Insurance company profits----- http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/03/04/private-insurer-profits-13-billion-medicare-fraud-48-billion-health-reform-priceless/

[East Coast Bias]

Republicans have successfully killed this (single-payer-public option) in favor of other social issues. As long as we keep telling ourselves how great our system is and continue to bend over for the insurance industry, nothing changes but what we pay. Thats how for-profit business works. Redex keeps saying he chooses benifits and available companies, does the average American have these choices? Most people go to work for a company and participate in whatever plan they offer. I have never chosen an insurance company or had a say in what benefits are part of my program. I just don't think we are sufficiently enlightened as a society to make the hard choices here. We have been able to afford these billion dollar wars but can't do anything here? PPhil's plan does have some merits..

[StoopTroup]

Pretty sure Obama and his cronies had the foresight to see this coming. They also knew our citizens would be forgetful and fall for it much like the original poster.

Their goal is to have a single payer, but society really doesn't want that and the vast majority was satisfied with their coverage. How do you change people's opinion, especially when passing something so unpopular? Well, bank on greed, ignorance and time.

First they pass a bill that basically puts a time limit on insurance companies to make much money(they only have about a 4% profit margin now). However, they don't really put a restraint on raising premiums. So, insurance companies do what Obama and his cronies knew they would do. They raise their premiums and try to make as much money as they can before obamacare really kicks in.

All most Americans will see is that the dirty, old insurance companies are gouging Americans, but not really look at why. That is when obama and his cronies will come in and say thatobamacer will save us from the mean old insurance companies.

See, cause a crisis and prescribe a government solution. The op fell for it hook line and sinker, just like Obama banked on.

Seriously, do people really like to be manipulated like this?

What Insurance Company do you and Turd use?

[StoopTroup]

100% of the population got health care before obamacare. Anyone and everyone could go to the er and get treated. Sure, you weren't going to get your nanny state birth control pills, but you were going to get treated.

Yet if you have Healthcare they are currently preaching Preventive Healthcare to help lower their costs. How can your way of treating everyone via the ER be better than Preventive Medicine?

[REDREX]

Republicans have successfully killed this (single-payer-public option) in favor of other social issues. As long as we keep telling ourselves how great our system is and continue to bend over for the insurance industry, nothing changes but what we pay. Thats how for-profit business works. Redex keeps saying he chooses benifits and available companies, does the average American have these choices? Most people go to work for a company and participate in whatever plan they offer. I have never chosen an insurance company or had a say in what benefits are part of my program. I just don't think we are sufficiently enlightened as a society to make the hard choices here. We have been able to afford these billion dollar wars but can't do anything here? PPhil's plan does have some merits..----It is sad if we are not "sufficently enlighteded" to choose an insurance plan. Our employees can take our plan or use the money we provide for them in an account to buy a different plan or just pay medical expenses out of the account----Not Rocket science---They pick what they want---What an idea

[Turd_Ferguson]

What Insurance Company do you and Turd use?I got Aetna and Cigna, plus whatever the wife has me under...what da problem?

[StoopTroup]

I got Aetna and Cigna, plus whatever the wife has me under...what da problem?

If there is something that can actually make you happy....I'm thinking I better go take a look at it and buy in. :D ;)

[StoopTroup]

My last ride to the ER cost way to much. LOL NSFW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8x0eoKIE6c

[Turd_Ferguson]

LMMFAO!!!

[East Coast Bias]

----It is sad if we are not "sufficently enlighteded" to choose an insurance plan. Our employees can take our plan or use the money we provide for them in an account to buy a different plan or just pay medical expenses out of the account----Not Rocket science---They pick what they want---What an idea

The "hard choice" I was referring to would be in reference to a not-for-profit solution to health-care.And yes that requires considerable enlightenment.

Kudo's for what you do for your employees. I would doubt that most Americans have the kind of choices your employees do with insurance coverage? Maybe I'm wrong? Has anyone here been able to make these kind of choices?

[Midtowner]

100% of the population got health care before obamacare. Anyone and everyone could go to the er and get treated. Sure, you weren't going to get your nanny state birth control pills, but you were going to get treated.

Emergency rooms and bankruptcy and costs passed on to rate payers. Boy that's a solution!

[Turd_Ferguson]

costs passed on to tax payers. Boy that's a solution!Indeed.

[Sooner5030]

-baseline VA like plan - get a broken arm - it gets set at no cost to citizen. Want viagra, BC, Ritalin, then pay out of pocket or purchase insurance
-everyone pays 4% payroll tax
-allow insurance and private clinics to offer care above the baseline
-deregulate the insurance industry that provides above the baseline care
-get health care and health insurance out of the employee/employer relationship.

I disagree with both the pubs and dems. I think public health is a public good and would be willing to pay a small tax to provide for it. However I wouldn't want the dems to touch this......it would go broke since they feel pregnancy is a disease and should be treated with free BC. Their friends in med-tech and pharma would game the system worse than the pubs and insurance.

I would really just like to see everyone with catastrophic coverage. My son's appendectomy was about $28,000 (heli ride included) and I was lucky that my insurance paid 100%. Had I not had insurance I would have declared BK and probably lost my job due to credit problems.

[East Coast Bias]

-baseline VA like plan - get a broken arm - it gets set at no cost to citizen. Want viagra, BC, Ritalin, then pay out of pocket or purchase insurance
-everyone pays 4% payroll tax
-allow insurance and private clinics to offer care above the baseline
-deregulate the insurance industry that provides above the baseline care
-get health care and health insurance out of the employee/employer relationship.

I disagree with both the pubs and dems. I think public health is a public good and would be willing to pay a small tax to provide for it. However I wouldn't want the dems to touch this......it would go broke since they feel pregnancy is a disease and should be treated with free BC. Their friends in med-tech and pharma would game the system worse than the pubs and insurance.

I would really just like to see everyone with catastrophic coverage. My son's appendectomy was about $28,000 (heli ride included) and I was lucky that my insurance paid 100%. Had I not had insurance I would have declared BK and probably lost my job due to credit problems.

Good plan that addresses the issues.I am on-board. Not likely to pass the smell test with the group here; This seems like the softer-kinder version of single payer.

[StoopTroup]

We need some Statiticians and Accountants to start trimming the fat in our Military's Budget. We shouldn't have to pay for decades for folks that have the ability to provide for themselves after returning Home. If I can do it and by my own Health Insurance so can our ex-military personel.

I've heard that the Indian Hospitals are looking into turning away folks who come out there because they want to avoid paying the Co-payment their Insurance required them to pay. They can get meds for $10.00 via their insurance too but feel that if it's cheaper at the free clinic they will come out and put the burden on the System.

I'm sure that a good portion of our Military's Budget is burned up because of ideas like those.

If Obamacare or a National Healthcare System isnt what Americans deserve then let's start trimming the fat off the places that are currently being misused by folks that could have paid for it themselves. Another good place to start is our 3 Branches of Govt. Just start at the Top and let it run down hill until We the People can get out from under this burden that so many bleeding hearts have created.

If our Troops need stuff the military cant provide the Blue Star Mothers and the many other private entities out there will be able to USPS Care Packages to them. Hopefully that will help out the USPS by increasing the number of pkgs and letters that get mailed. You just can't email or Skype you Don or Daughter a Snickers Bar or a Condom.

Once we get all of this waste under control we can then look to start finding ways to reduce or eliminate the waste in Medicare and Welfare. With all of the Tax Money we will all save, we'll be able to pay for housing for our family members that can't make a decent living and paying for nicer retirement Homes for our Parents and Family that currently are hooked on Medicare. We can maybe buy them some insurance instead of that Lake House we bought for when we aren't Teaching during the Summers.

[East Coast Bias]

We need some Statiticians and Accountants to start trimming the fat in our Military's Budget. We shouldn't have to pay for decades for folks that have the ability to provide for themselves after returning Home. If I can do it and by my own Health Insurance so can our ex-military personel.

I've heard that the Indian Hospitals are looking into turning away folks who come out there because they want to avoid paying the Co-payment their Insurance required them to pay. They can get meds for $10.00 via their insurance too but feel that if it's cheaper at the free clinic they will come out and put the burden on the System.

I'm sure that a good portion of our Military's Budget is burned up because of ideas like those.

If Obamacare or a National Healthcare System isnt what Americans deserve then let's start trimming the fat off the places that are currently being misused by folks that could have paid for it themselves. Another good place to start is our 3 Branches of Govt. Just start at the Top and let it run down hill until We the People can get out from under this burden that so many bleeding hearts have created.

If our Troops need stuff the military cant provide the Blue Star Mothers and the many other private entities out there will be able to USPS Care Packages to them. Hopefully that will help out the USPS by increasing the number of pkgs and letters that get mailed. You just can't email or Skype you Don or Daughter a Snickers Bar or a Condom.

Once we get all of this waste under control we can then look to start finding ways to reduce or eliminate the waste in Medicare and Welfare. With all of the Tax Money we will all save, we'll be able to pay for housing for our family members that can't make a decent living and paying for nicer retirement Homes for our Parents and Family that currently are hooked on Medicare. We can maybe buy them some insurance instead of that Lake House we bought for when we aren't Teaching during the Summers.

Good post ST and fashioned in the spirit of compromise.The ideologies are so strong on both sides the politicians can't seem to get this.Maybe after the election? Although I have a liberal approach I would be for eliminating some government agencies in the Ron Paul spirit and reducing budgets drastically for others. The military spending is a tragedy and needs to get hit with some hard cuts. I would be for moving some of the savings to programs that benefit the poor, middle class and elderly but only if we put some effort into getting rid of the entitlement fraud you speak to. We all need to take ownership of the fact that we somehow can afford these billion-dollar wars but can't do some of the basics for OUR PEOPLE, ie state, local government, unemployment benefits, etc.....

[soonercruiser]

And you are stuck on denying the undeniable. The ACA will improve healthcare access dramatically, just as it did in Massachusetts. The question will be price control. It'll be a different game for insurers. They know that a public option or single payer is around the corner if they can't keep things under control.

I guess that you missed the reports on Romneycare going broke!

[soonercruiser]

How much do SS etc account for? I don't know precisely, but about 30-35% if memory serves.
Which takes us back, Over Here! Sooner! On The Path!, to the issue of health care.

I am not a doctor. I am a consumer of healthcare products and services. I have lived under the Australian, Singaporean and Japanese systems. I have employed people in all three countries who were covered.

I have been on both sides!


I am fully ready to have some doctor from any of these countries come forward with horror tales. If so, I'll be ready to take that on board. I have of course had professional encounters with doctors in all three places. Additionally, I have had social contact with more than a few others. At no time, under any circumstances (in their offices, playing golf, drunk at a barbecue, never) have any of them evinced any serious dissatisfaction or frustration with their national systems. The Japanese did sigh deeply regarding the relatively backward condition of their country in the area of transplantation of organs due to Buddhist strictures on keeping the body whole. That's it.


The doctors don't complain?????
How about the patients?? Duh!
If you haven't heard the complaints and testimonies from abroad that we should not go "their way", the you are only watching the LameStream media!


They all, to a man/woman felt the US system was bizarre, highly inefficient and a place where they would rather not practice. And about half had been trained in the US.

I have no personal knowledge of Europe, but it would appear demonstrative of something that National Health is the most highly regarded branch of the English government and the one in which the British people take the most pride.

So, here is the admission!
Well just look at Europe!
I am sorry to say that my experiences abroad, and in socialized medical countries - I can provide exactly the opposite testimonies!
The bottom lines is, anyone who quotes "like other countries", is likely trying to head U.S. to socialism!
NO THANKS!



As to the thinly veiled suggestion that, if I don't like things as they are, I should go back to wherever I prefer, I will counter suggest that it is rather unamerican to squat, in juvenile stubbornness, in the mire instead of fixing the problem.

It is rather unAmerican to destroy the best overall medical care delivery system in the world!
That's what Obamacare and the statists want! To destroy everything about this country, and have the government eliminate private enterprise!
Nothing wrong with fixing something....destroying it is another thing all together!

BTW - have you seen the articles about the CBO now saying the cost of Obamacare will be double the original estimate???
Thought not...
:dispirited:

[soonercruiser]

We need some Statiticians and Accountants to start trimming the fat in our Military's Budget. We shouldn't have to pay for decades for folks that have the ability to provide for themselves after returning Home. If I can do it and by my own Health Insurance so can our ex-military personel.

I've heard that the Indian Hospitals are looking into turning away folks who come out there because they want to avoid paying the Co-payment their Insurance required them to pay. They can get meds for $10.00 via their insurance too but feel that if it's cheaper at the free clinic they will come out and put the burden on the System.

I'm sure that a good portion of our Military's Budget is burned up because of ideas like those.

If Obamacare or a National Healthcare System isnt what Americans deserve then let's start trimming the fat off the places that are currently being misused by folks that could have paid for it themselves. Another good place to start is our 3 Branches of Govt. Just start at the Top and let it run down hill until We the People can get out from under this burden that so many bleeding hearts have created.

If our Troops need stuff the military cant provide the Blue Star Mothers and the many other private entities out there will be able to USPS Care Packages to them. Hopefully that will help out the USPS by increasing the number of pkgs and letters that get mailed. You just can't email or Skype you Don or Daughter a Snickers Bar or a Condom.

Once we get all of this waste under control we can then look to start finding ways to reduce or eliminate the waste in Medicare and Welfare. With all of the Tax Money we will all save, we'll be able to pay for housing for our family members that can't make a decent living and paying for nicer retirement Homes for our Parents and Family that currently are hooked on Medicare. We can maybe buy them some insurance instead of that Lake House we bought for when we aren't Teaching during the Summers.

Come on Stooop!
Can't you see that the only plan Dems have IS to cut the military. That's the way it has been forever!

So Ryan has a new plan! Videos last week of Sec. Geitner with Ryan admitting that "they" (Dems) don't like his plan.....but, have absolutely no idea of what to do themselves! This includes Obama! They'll just wait until after the next election!!!!????
GMAFB!

[KantoSooner]

Stoop, sorry for the late reply, but work sometimes intrudes and takes time from the more important things in life. San Anotonio was great, however.

Let's keep the tone civil, if you will. I'm not picking a fight. I am pissed that my insurance goes up by 15-25% per annum and make the logical point that this can not continue indefinitely.

Our current system is not 'the best in the world'. Not by anyone's measure. Hasn't been since sometime in the 1960's. We pay more (about double) than people in other advanced economies. And we are sicker. (We rank what? somewhere in the mid-30's in world rankings on almost any measure of health you'd care to choose.) These are facts. To acknowledge these facts is not to prescribe any particular solution.

Without recognizing that we have a problem, however, is to condemn ourselves to continuing to live with it. Our healthcare costs are escalating. It now eats up close to 20% of GNP. It is scheduled to rise to 25% in the next ten years. At some point, we will spend our entire economy supporting a healthcare system that does not deliver better than mediocre results. That deserves addressing.

Healthcare as we administer it is a weird market. It is far from capitalism today. Doctors are licensed and regulated by very secretive bodies composed of other doctors and bureaucrats. The costs are covered in the main, by insurance corporations who are paid, in the main, by government programs. Nowhere in the current system is there a motive to either manage for maximum health or to control/cut costs. To preserve what we have today is not to defend some paragon of free market capitalism; it is, rather, to champion a state/corporatist gravy-train. I'm like most people: I'll not squawk too loudly if the costs are not outrageous, but to get poked every year for double digit increases when inflation is running at a tenth that rate just seems too much.

I like the idea of basic coverage with a catastropic illness cap. If it seems so logical to us realtively normal, relatively intelligent people, why are we not seeing such a program at least debated nationally? Obama is certainly not bringing such a program to the table. But neither is McConnell or any other Republican.

Well, there's the phone. Maybe I actually generated customer interest last week. Back to work...

[ictsooner7]

About 98% of folks in Massachusetts have healthcare coverage under RomneyCare. Cost trends have gone up (like the rest of the nation), but there is a new trend emerging with lower cost providers offering plans with fewer choices at lower rates. Being able to compete side-by-side with the other plans, prospects are good for these companies.

And if the Affordable Care Act fails? I think it just tells us that we either need a single payer system, need to just socialize the whole damned thing or something else. The status quo is unsustainable.

Could have had one right now if Reid wasn't;

A. such a *****

B. bought off with campaign contributions

[pphilfran]

Stoop, sorry for the late reply, but work sometimes intrudes and takes time from the more important things in life. San Anotonio was great, however.

Let's keep the tone civil, if you will. I'm not picking a fight. I am pissed that my insurance goes up by 15-25% per annum and make the logical point that this can not continue indefinitely.

Our current system is not 'the best in the world'. Not by anyone's measure. Hasn't been since sometime in the 1960's. We pay more (about double) than people in other advanced economies. And we are sicker. (We rank what? somewhere in the mid-30's in world rankings on almost any measure of health you'd care to choose.) These are facts. To acknowledge these facts is not to prescribe any particular solution.

Without recognizing that we have a problem, however, is to condemn ourselves to continuing to live with it. Our healthcare costs are escalating. It now eats up close to 20% of GNP. It is scheduled to rise to 25% in the next ten years. At some point, we will spend our entire economy supporting a healthcare system that does not deliver better than mediocre results. That deserves addressing.

Healthcare as we administer it is a weird market. It is far from capitalism today. Doctors are licensed and regulated by very secretive bodies composed of other doctors and bureaucrats. The costs are covered in the main, by insurance corporations who are paid, in the main, by government programs. Nowhere in the current system is there a motive to either manage for maximum health or to control/cut costs. To preserve what we have today is not to defend some paragon of free market capitalism; it is, rather, to champion a state/corporatist gravy-train. I'm like most people: I'll not squawk too loudly if the costs are not outrageous, but to get poked every year for double digit increases when inflation is running at a tenth that rate just seems too much.

I like the idea of basic coverage with a catastropic illness cap. If it seems so logical to us realtively normal, relatively intelligent people, why are we not seeing such a program at least debated nationally? Obama is certainly not bringing such a program to the table. But neither is McConnell or any other Republican.

Well, there's the phone. Maybe I actually generated customer interest last week. Back to work...

A new system will not "fix" the overall health issues of being fat, smoking, doing drugs, or drinking too much...

I do like the basic coverage idea...and that coverage should be sold at cost...profits made on private room, lower deductible, birth control or abortions and such if people choose that coverage...

[KantoSooner]

Fran, I'd be inclined to agree with your first statement except that other nations who have populations ethnically similar to ours and who drink/smoke/overeat/drive too fast, etc at about the same rate we do....have better health outcomes. One reason for this,arguably, is that they tend to see doctors more regularly.
I'm mostly libertarian. I like individual responsibility. Time and again, though, when you look at our outcomes vs. those of other countries, we come out behind and the only real difference is our system.

[pphilfran]

We are the 9th fattest country in the world...

1. Nauru (what the hell is a Nauru?)
2. Micronesia
3. Cook Islands
4. Tonga
5. Niue
6. Samoa
7. Palau
8. Kuwait
9. US

[pphilfran]

We are 13th in beer consumption

[pphilfran]

Down the list on smoking...the poorer countries seem to be heavy smokers..

[pphilfran]

As far as illegal drug use I think we lead the pack...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/blanca/drug-use-by-country

[pphilfran]

Our overall health is not due to crappy health care...it is about bad habits...and I am King!

We have superb health care in the US...

We get dinged for low enrollment and high cost...and some of that high cost is due to the fact that we refuse to die and want to spend whatever it takes to extend life a year or a month...Fareed Zakaria discussed the unwillingness to die in his one hour special last week...if you are 80 years old you don't get a hip replacement in most countries...

I like the Swiss system

[soonercruiser]

Dang!
No more vanilla wafers left in my desk drawer...
:dispirited:

[Turd_Ferguson]

Dang!
No more vanilla wafers left in my desk drawer...
:dispirited:Nilla wafer's belong in no other place but pudd'n...

[AlboSooner]

Our current system costs us 19% of GDP. Other modern economies spend between 7-10%. And those other systems deliver objectively better results.
Their citizens are healthier than we are. And that includes the Aussies who are (drawing huge stereotypes) essentially Irish/Greek dypsomaniacs who smoke all the time and hang out shirtless in the sun. (Well, not all, but they are certainly a fair comparison in terms of ethnicity and lifestyle to us Americans).
Their doctors might not make what american doctors make....but the ones I know drive benz's and holiday in Europe. They are far from beaten down government functionaries.
And they don't have death panels, nor do they wait excessively for care.

Our 'system' is ridiculously priced and, at best, mediocre in delivery of results. Why should we not investigate the options?

YES!

[cleller]

Could stuff like this be contributing?

http://www.newson6.com/story/17263047/two-injured-after-small-tulsa-apartment-fire-monday-night

[MamaMia]

...Just announced another 25% increase effective next month.

I don't smoke, I am not in a particular risk group. I had minor outpatient surgery last June.

I'm done with these fools. I want nationalized, single payer health care. Now. I've never been treated this shabbily in any of the three nationalized plans under which I've lived as an adult.I haven't read the thread contents however, there is a better alternative being a law that allows insurance companies to sell policies without in state restrictions. Some major competition would bring that price down considerably.

[KantoSooner]

Could stuff like this be contributing?

http://www.newson6.com/story/17263047/two-injured-after-small-tulsa-apartment-fire-monday-night

I'm sure it doesn't help. But idiocy is fairly evenly distributed around the world and I'm not sure Americans are objectively stupider than other people.

We do, however, have a flare for marketing, so we tend to 'go big' on our idiocy. We're Americans. We do nothing halfway.