Boy this going to be politically incorrect

[diverdog]

I have to say at this point I have a lot of sympathy for Sgt Robert Bales. What he did was reprehensible but I believe he was failed by the Army and our country. The man should have never been deployed and I think he suffers from PTSD. There is no way based on the current evidence that I would give him the death penalty.

[pphilfran]

Damn pinky liberal....

[Turd_Ferguson]

I have to say at this point I have a lot of sympathy for Sgt Robert Bales. What he did was reprehensible but I believe he was failed by the Army and our country. The man should have never been deployed and I think he suffers from PTSD. There is no way based on the current evidence that I would I would give him the death penalty.My gut feeling tells me the same...

[jk the sooner fan]

he's responsible for his actions but i hope he doesnt get the death penalty

"we" created that - multiple deployments, TBI, PTSD.....this guy is going to be the poster child for whats wrong with how this war has been handled

[rock on sooner]

All that I have seen so far points to the TBI and PTSD. Background stories indicate this guy
caring family man...easy going patriot. C'mon, 4 deployments...looks like a lot of missed
signals from the Army...no excuses for what he did...I agree, though, no death penalty. I'm
sure similar things have happened in wars passed...just those wars didn't have the press
at every turn. But, be assured if he doesn't get the death penalty, any people we still have
in Afghanistan will be in even more jeopardy!

[KantoSooner]

And rightly so, Rock On.
I am not particularly sympathetic to the Afghans, but how would we feel if, for instance, a Mexican soldier involved in Katrina relief had 'snapped' and gone and shot up a school? Answer: Not happy.
Were I an Afghan, I'd be absolutely crazy with rage right about now.

[sappstuf]

And rightly so, Rock On.
I am not particularly sympathetic to the Afghans, but how would we feel if, for instance, a Mexican soldier involved in Katrina relief had 'snapped' and gone and shot up a school? Answer: Not happy.
Were I an Afghan, I'd be absolutely crazy with rage right about now.

Actually you wouldn't.. Unless you belonged to the tribe that those people belonged to. If you have followed the news, the response has been very muted from the Afghan people as a whole to the killings. Compare it to the burning of the Korans that caused nationwide violent protests and killing of US military. That is because the belief in Islam is common across all the tribes.

I take it as Afghanistan isn't really a true country yet because they don't behave like a country to me, but really it probably just shows the stark difference in belief systems from the Western world.

[Curly Bill]

Actually you wouldn't.. Unless you belonged to the tribe that those people belonged to. If you have followed the news, the response has been very muted from the Afghan people as a whole to the killings. Compare it to the burning of the Korans that caused nationwide violent protests and killing of US military. That is because the belief in Islam is common across all the tribes.

I take it as Afghanistan isn't really a true country yet because they don't behave like a country to me, but really it probably just shows the stark difference in belief systems from the Western world.

I don't think it ever has been a "true country" nor is it likely to become one.

[rock on sooner]

I don't think it ever has been a "true country" nor is it likely to become one.

I was stationed very close to Afghanistan in the late 60's (Peshawar). That entire region..
Pakistan and Afghanistan...was a collection of tribes, run by warlords whose only loyalty
was to whoever paid the most. That was then, and, as far as I can tell, still is. Depending
on local warlords by Bush the Younger, Cheney and Rumsfeld is why Bin Laden got loose
from Tora Bora and prolonged the war, IMO.

[jk the sooner fan]

one thing i pulled from the story that i got a huge eye roll from - was the villagers saying they've never been more frightened in their homes than ever before

right......under taliban rule, i'm sure life was just peachy

[yermom]

I don't think it ever has been a "true country" nor is it likely to become one.

that's why the "war" makes so little sense

[diverdog]

I was stationed very close to Afghanistan in the late 60's (Peshawar). That entire region..
Pakistan and Afghanistan...was a collection of tribes, run by warlords whose only loyalty
was to whoever paid the most. That was then, and, as far as I can tell, still is. Depending
on local warlords by Bush the Younger, Cheney and Rumsfeld is why Bin Laden got loose
from Tora Bora and prolonged the war, IMO.

Were you there with our nuclear forces? I was in Pakistan in the early 80's.

[Soonerfan88]

Actually, diverdog, that is the politically correct belief. He's become the poster boy for the peace movement.

I am politically incorrect and believe he was high on opium water and have very little sympathy for him. I agree with pulling out of Afghanistan, but this druggie is not the reason.

[rock on sooner]

Were you there with our nuclear forces? I was in Pakistan in the early 80's.

No, Diver, no nukes. Peshawar Air Station was an electronics listeningpost. We were
tasked with electronic intercept. The mission was replaced with satellite technology,
just like my previous post..RAF Kirknewton in Scotland. Worth noting, Peshawar was
the "home base" for some U2 high altitude surveillance aircraft.(There were two still
there in 1966). I operated the communication equipment that "talked" to Powers,(long
after he was shot down, though). We heard lots of good stuff, too! USAFSS.

[diverdog]

No, Diver, no nukes. Peshawar Air Station was an electronics listeningpost. We were
tasked with electronic intercept. The mission was replaced with satellite technology,
just like my previous post..RAF Kirknewton in Scotland. Worth noting, Peshawar was
the "home base" for some U2 high altitude surveillance aircraft.(There were two still
there in 1966). I operated the communication equipment that "talked" to Powers,(long
after he was shot down, though). We heard lots of good stuff, too! USAFSS.

I am not sure why I said nukes because they were in Turkey. When I was there we were delivering "humanitarian aid" to the Mujahadeen. Lol

Interesting stuff. You were *** deep in the cold war.

[diverdog]

I was stationed very close to Afghanistan in the late 60's (Peshawar). That entire region..
Pakistan and Afghanistan...was a collection of tribes, run by warlords whose only loyalty
was to whoever paid the most. That was then, and, as far as I can tell, still is. Depending
on local warlords by Bush the Younger, Cheney and Rumsfeld is why Bin Laden got loose
from Tora Bora and prolonged the war, IMO.

The AF had that war won until the regular Army showed up.

[rock on sooner]

I am not sure why I said nukes because they were in Turkey. When I was there we were delivering "humanitarian aid" to the Mujahadeen. Lol

Interesting stuff. You were *** deep in the cold war.

It got kind of interesting in '67, too, when the Israelis decided to do their thing
with The Seven Day War. Since the Mujahadeen used older light arms, be
fun to know what caliber the "humanitarian aid" was.

Some of the stuff we "listened to" was nuclear related, though. When you
mentioned nukes, I got to thinking about some the TDY folks that would
come and go...we only saw them in the chow hall...Air Force did have good
chow!...had Army, Marines (?) and some alphabet people....

[diverdog]

It got kind of interesting in '67, too, when the Israelis decided to do their thing
with The Seven Day War. Since the Mujahadeen used older light arms, be
fun to know what caliber the "humanitarian aid" was.

Some of the stuff we "listened to" was nuclear related, though. When you
mentioned nukes, I got to thinking about some the TDY folks that would
come and go...we only saw them in the chow hall...Air Force did have good
chow!...had Army, Marines (?) and some alphabet people....



To be honest I have no idea what we took to them. If I had to guess they were the working end of a bee.

[soonercruiser]

The AF had that war won until the regular Army showed up.

THIS!
GO Air Force!
:tennis:

[soonercruiser]

I have to say at this point I have a lot of sympathy for Sgt Robert Bales. What he did was reprehensible but I believe he was failed by the Army and our country. The man should have never been deployed and I think he suffers from PTSD. There is no way based on the current evidence that I would give him the death penalty.

A really bad deal all way 'round!
And, I really feel for his family too.

My opinion....he just snapped!

Multiple deployments; too many wars; too much stress.
Today I heard that besides the past head injury, he had lost part of one foot; AND they were losing their home!

This is what happens when our fighting forces are stretched too far, too long!
Both parties share in this responsibility.
The Dems cutting the military back time and again will only worsten this.

But, you are correct....he has failed the Corps (not "corpse") and the country!
But, obviously, the medical evaluators in the military failed in their job too!

[diverdog]

Aaaaaargh. They are now saying alcohol was involved. I am going to wait to see all the facts before I judge Bales. However if this turns out to be a drunken rampage then he should get the death penalty.

[pphilfran]

Morning, DD...

[Midtowner]

The Dems cutting the military back time and again will only worsten this.


It takes a really special person to turn this into something partisan.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I have to say at this point I have a lot of sympathy for Sgt Robert Bales. What he did was reprehensible but I believe he was failed by the Army and our country. The man should have never been deployed and I think he suffers from PTSD. There is no way based on the current evidence that I would give him the death penalty.

Not a dig on you Diver, but I would withhold opinion until all is said and done. That being said, I hate the character assasination going on now. Sounds like there is much to be sympathetic about and some he also alledgedly has legal and personal problems. I don't know what is true, so I am going to be quiet and not point fingers.

That said, I pray for his family and for the soldier.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Actually you wouldn't.. Unless you belonged to the tribe that those people belonged to. If you have followed the news, the response has been very muted from the Afghan people as a whole to the killings. Compare it to the burning of the Korans that caused nationwide violent protests and killing of US military. That is because the belief in Islam is common across all the tribes.

I take it as Afghanistan isn't really a true country yet because they don't behave like a country to me, but really it probably just shows the stark difference in belief systems from the Western world.

I read a quote in the International Times Herald last week, that they take the Koran burning as an affront to God while the killing just made martyrs and we should all be happy that people died and went to martyrdom... so to them Koran >>>>>>>>>> killing 16 people

I don't get it, interesting how our view of religion for those that are religious is almost polar opposite to theirs. I don't know if even the most fundamental, bible is the inherent word of God Christian would have the same view...

[Midtowner]

I read a quote in the International Times Herald last week, that they take the Koran burning as an affront to God while the killing just made martyrs and we should all be happy that people died and went to martyrdom... so to them Koran >>>>>>>>>> killing 16 people

A good indication that winning hearts and minds is not going to happen and that we need to leave there right now.

[diverdog]

Not a dig on you Diver, but I would withhold opinion until all is said and done. That being said, I hate the character assasination going on now. Sounds like there is much to be sympathetic about and some he also alledgedly has legal and personal problems. I don't know what is true, so I am going to be quiet and not point fingers.

That said, I pray for his family and for the soldier.

They are now saying that when he worked as a broker he defrauded an elderly couple of over a million dollars. The couple said he fled and went to hiding and they did not know where he was until the shootings.

[pphilfran]

Records show Gary Liebschner of Columbus, Ohio, filed the complaint in 2000, when Bales was a stockbroker.

WCPO-TV in Ohio quoted Liebschner's wife as saying her husband became ill so they asked Bales to sell stock to pay medical bills, but never received the proceeds.

An arbitration panel found Bales, Michael Patterson and Michael Patterson Inc. individually and jointly liable for $637,000 in compensatory damages, $637,000 in punitive damages, $216,500 in attorneys' fees and several thousand dollars in other fees.

Punitive damages were allowed because the panel found Bales' conduct "fraudulent and malicious."

[Midtowner]

So he kind of looks like a sociopath.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Like I said, we don't know all the info... I had read that about securities fraud today as well.

One thing I found interesting, others may say its isn't anything, he apparently was denied promotion... 4 tours in war zone and he is not promotable to E5 or E6 (or whatever)? I wonder about that.

[Turd_Ferguson]

So he kind of looks like a sociopath.Wow...how lawyeresque of you.

[diverdog]

Like I said, we don't know all the info... I had read that about securities fraud today as well.

One thing I found interesting, others may say its isn't anything, he apparently was denied promotion... 4 tours in war zone and he is not promotable to E5 or E6 (or whatever)? I wonder about that.

I am trying to figure out how he got into the military with the securities issues. That alone would deny you any kind of securities clearance.

[okie52]

I am trying to figure out how he got into the military with the securities issues. That alone would deny you any kind of securities clearance.

Exactly...and why he wasn't hauled off long before now.