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View Full Version : Why does college basketball attendance in this state suck?



badger
3/2/2012, 12:33 PM
Is it the Thunder's success? Is the product really that bad? Is it the economy?

Interesting read here. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=234&articleid=20120302_234_B1_CUTLIN978630)


"To have tickets for Thunder games - that's prestigious, isn't it?" former OU basketball coach Billy Tubbs said. "Being seen at a Thunder game is a big deal. It's a big social event."

OU's stats:


Lloyd Noble Center (11,528 capacity)

2008-09: 11,490

2009-10: 10,650

2010-11: 8,563

2011-12: 8,470

I don't think this is just a guy's thing, but also impacting the women's side too... but don't have the numbers in front of me to back this up. I can find em fast though...

badger
3/2/2012, 12:41 PM
OK, here goes: Stats stolen from SS.com:

So far this year (one home game left):
2011-12: 7028
2010-11: 5490
2009-10: No stats available, page error
2008-09: 9007
2007-08: 10254
2006-07: 10433
2005-06: 7630
2004-05: 5695
2003-04: 4638
2002-03: 3022

The Paris twin era was truly an era of spoilage as far as attendance went.

Curly Bill
3/2/2012, 12:51 PM
Without thinking about it a great deal....I'm gonna say low attendance at college basketball games is pretty much the norm at schools where football is such a big deal, as it is at OU.

badger
3/2/2012, 01:03 PM
Without thinking about it a great deal....I'm gonna say low attendance at college basketball games is pretty much the norm at schools where football is such a big deal, as it is at OU.

It must just be the norm right now, because basketball attendance (both men and women) was pretty high during the same year that we made it the football national title game, with all the drama of a three-way-tie the BCS and the Jump Around Texas Tech game! A Heisman too!

PalmBeachSooner
3/2/2012, 02:39 PM
It could be a lack of stars on the men and women's BB teams. There's no Blake Griffin and no Paris twins. It's sad but there just isn't anything to get excited about when it comes to Sooners' basketball. It's not fun to watch right now.

I was really excited about the OU Softall season kicking off. There was a lot of reason to be excited. Keillani Ricketts is a super-star. Jessica Shults' illness and recovery are a great story. The freshman sensation Chamberlain will be a second or third team all-american this season. Book It. I'm thinking WCWS appearance and a great chance to make it to the championship game. But after three losses to teams ranked below them has tempered my enthusiasm. I'm hopeful they will get better as the season goes on and win the Big XII and make a strong showing in the WCWS, so I will attend games and watch them on TV.

You see there is still reason to be hopeful about softball and even baseball. Everything you hope the team will accomplish is still attainable. It was very clear early in the BB season that both the women and men didn't have it and the fans lost interest quick, fast and in a hurry. It's so important for these types of sports have something for the fans to get excited about otherwise you get what you have this season.

oumartin
3/2/2012, 03:02 PM
Women's game = turnover fest. Plus only one aging coach in stilettos
Men's team=poor product, no appeal, not a great venue,

Thunder=great team, fun atmosphere,booze,tons of hotties in stilettos. Easier to get tix and closer to home

badger
3/2/2012, 03:25 PM
It could be a lack of stars on the men and women's BB teams. There's no Blake Griffin and no Paris twins. It's sad but there just isn't anything to get excited about when it comes to Sooners' basketball. It's not fun to watch right now.


It probably is this, isn't it?

OU and OSU both tried to milk fans for every dollar after those good, postseason tourney bound years, and when the product on-court went downhill, fans found very little reason to make the trek to LNC/GIA and continue paying the postseason-ticket-team prices for a losing product.

Bringing ticket prices down now might help, but they need to continue to do more to get the fans back in the stands... not just recruiting another Blake or Courtney, but making every fan trip to LNC worthwhile. I've heard that the halftime entertainment is very sucky.

jumperstop
3/2/2012, 03:39 PM
Women's game = turnover fest. Plus only one aging coach in stilettos
Men's team=poor product, no appeal, not a great venue,

Thunder=great team, fun atmosphere,booze,tons of hotties in stilettos. Easier to get tix and closer to home

What he said...

It's a sad truth, nobody wants to watch ****ty basketball.....and plus for me after watching more pro ball since the Thunder have been her, I can see why some people like pro sports better. It's more physical play and just all around better basketball. Sometimes in a college game a team can go 10+ mins without making a basket, you would rarely see that in a pro game. The more I watch NBA the less I enjoy college ball.

Edit: I should have said "what he said...but it's not easier to get tickets" Tickets arein real high demand for the Thunder and for the power teams I've seen the 10 dollar tickets get as high as 100 dollars. I bet you could walk right up to LNC and get into a game there...

jumperstop
3/2/2012, 03:41 PM
It probably is this, isn't it?

OU and OSU both tried to milk fans for every dollar after those good, postseason tourney bound years, and when the product on-court went downhill, fans found very little reason to make the trek to LNC/GIA and continue paying the postseason-ticket-team prices for a losing product.

Bringing ticket prices down now might help, but they need to continue to do more to get the fans back in the stands... not just recruiting another Blake or Courtney, but making every fan trip to LNC worthwhile. I've heard that the halftime entertainment is very sucky.
This is not why people buy tickets and go to the game. I would say the poor attendance has more to do with the fact they are 4-15 in conference or whatever it is...

oumartin
3/2/2012, 07:27 PM
what I mean by easier to get thunder tickets is you can go online and if you wanna pay the money you can print your tickets.

I have no idea if you can do that with OU bball tickets but used to not be able to

8timechamps
3/2/2012, 09:22 PM
This is not why people buy tickets and go to the game. I would say the poor attendance has more to do with the fact they are 4-15 in conference or whatever it is...

I think it's a simple as:

Winning=attendance

Oklahoma has never been a big basketball state anyway, so that doesn't help.

Plus, martin mentioned something that's true, LNC is an outdated, boring venue.

Sooner95
3/2/2012, 09:26 PM
Lack of Star Power + One of the WORST college hoops arenas in the nation = Poor attendance.

PalmBeachSooner
3/5/2012, 01:16 PM
I don't foresee it getting any better anytime soon. Sherri isn't exactly tearing it up in recruiting. There's been no high profile commits that I am aware of in quite some time.

Chuck Bao
3/5/2012, 01:49 PM
My family didn't miss one home women's basketball game this year. Even before the season started we ordered 4 extra tix for UConn, Baylor, OSU, the real OSU and a few more. We got loud and we had an overall good experience in supporting the OU team. Alright, some of the outcomes of those games were a bit disappointing for OU fans. I am quite sure that my family will order season tix again next year and pre-order more for some of the better games and fill the ordered seats.

At this point, I have to say that I'm a Baylor fan. I've heard repeatedly since the formation of the BIG12 that winning is everything and the fans will fill the seats based on the W-L record. Maybe that is so, but it doesn't stop me from going to games and cheering my fricking *** off.

Are we so spoiled to winning that we turn our back on our team during the not-so-spectacular years? Are we really so used to winning that caution can be thrown to the wind in recruitment? I thought that was one of the problems of the previous OU men's coach.

Maybe Sherri Coale hasn't attracted the very best national talent over the last few years. But you can't deny that she is a reason that the first two rounds of the NCAA basketball tournment for whatever regional is in Norman. It is Sherri Coale and the fans. OU has great fans and we will continue to be great fans (except me and I'm an OU fan unless playing Baylor). That has to play into recruitment and future success.

badger
3/5/2012, 02:07 PM
Maybe we are spoiled, but I like that a down year for OU attendance still pwns most (if not all) of the conference's attendance. So, we're not getting 10k average anymore. But we're still getting thousands in actual attendance (not just paid attendance stats from the box score) more than some of these schools get. Since they're televising games more, home and away, you can really tell the difference between fan support at OU and fan support elsewhere... and it is a HUGE difference.

Men's on the other hand...

Chuck Bao
3/5/2012, 02:18 PM
Maybe we are spoiled, but I like that a down year for OU attendance still pwns most (if not all) of the conference's attendance. So, we're not getting 10k average anymore. But we're still getting thousands in actual attendance (not just paid attendance stats from the box score) more than some of these schools get. Since they're televising games more, home and away, you can really tell the difference between fan support at OU and fan support elsewhere... and it is a HUGE difference.

Men's on the other hand...

Badger, you stated what I wanted to say. The fan turnout and support has to mean something and I hope recruits get that.

Obviously, the men's team outdraws the women's, but not by much. It will be much harder for the men to get back to a national competitive level. The OU women have much better relative prospects and attendance at games should be a very persuasive argument.

CowboyMRW
3/5/2012, 06:27 PM
It's not just the state schools that are having a down year in basketball attendance, it's nation wide. I read an article a while back, I'll see if I can find it on my history, about how even schools like Duke aren't having the attendance they used to have night in and night out. For both Oklahoma schools now to get back to great attendances, there needs to be a good product on the floor. I think Kruger and Ford will be able to do that eventually, but until it happens, attendance is going to continue to remain on a downward trend.

8timechamps
3/5/2012, 07:00 PM
It's not just the state schools that are having a down year in basketball attendance, it's nation wide. I read an article a while back, I'll see if I can find it on my history, about how even schools like Duke aren't having the attendance they used to have night in and night out. For both Oklahoma schools now to get back to great attendances, there needs to be a good product on the floor. I think Kruger and Ford will be able to do that eventually, but until it happens, attendance is going to continue to remain on a downward trend.

I read something similar. Don't know if it's the economy or what, but it's down across the board.

What's funny is that every time I saw OSU play on TV this year, it looked like Gallagher Iba was filled to capacity. I think that's a function of the camera angle, and the sound reverb, but it looks full on TV.

CowboyMRW
3/5/2012, 07:43 PM
I read something similar. Don't know if it's the economy or what, but it's down across the board.

What's funny is that every time I saw OSU play on TV this year, it looked like Gallagher Iba was filled to capacity. I think that's a function of the camera angle, and the sound reverb, but it looks full on TV.

GIA was only totally filled against VaTech on New Years this year. We had some games that were close to 11,000 or right around it. The thing about GIA is, that the way it is built, with how steep everything is, it does appear to be full on tv, and it still gets extremely loud, even with only 6000 people there.

kbsooner21
3/8/2012, 08:57 AM
Quite simple. Poor product on the court coupled with the Thunder's success.

OU_Sooners75
3/8/2012, 03:54 PM
Really asking this question badger?

Look at the product on the court and that will give you your answer.

If OU wins 25 games, then the house will be close to packed. If we win 13, it will be close to empty.

OU is not known as a basketball school, even though we have had a tradition of being a good one the last 30 years or so. So when the team is not doing good, then the fans won't flock to the games.

I love me some OU basketball, but I will not spend close to $3.60/gallon of gas to drive 3 hours away to watch them get beat when I can do so at home. If they were a lot better, I would.

OU_Sooners75
3/8/2012, 03:59 PM
Lack of Star Power + The WORST college hoops arenas in the nation = Poor attendance.

FIFY

jumperstop
3/8/2012, 05:08 PM
It's not just the state schools that are having a down year in basketball attendance, it's nation wide. I read an article a while back, I'll see if I can find it on my history, about how even schools like Duke aren't having the attendance they used to have night in and night out. For both Oklahoma schools now to get back to great attendances, there needs to be a good product on the floor. I think Kruger and Ford will be able to do that eventually, but until it happens, attendance is going to continue to remain on a downward trend.

Maybe I'm wrong, but people might just not care as much until the tourney. For all the people who talk about "the best post season in sports"....maybe it really does take away from regular season play. Look what we could do to football if some people had their way.

badger
3/8/2012, 05:40 PM
Really asking this question badger?

Look at the product on the court and that will give you your answer.

If OU wins 25 games, then the house will be close to packed. If we win 13, it will be close to empty.


I dunno man. We used to be going to the tourney every single year under Kelvin and I don't think we were "packed" into the LNC then.

oumartin
3/8/2012, 05:47 PM
I dunno man. We used to be going to the tourney every single year under Kelvin and I don't think we were "packed" into the LNC then.

Kelvin didn't endear himself to many of the fans.
LNC sucks unless you are a visiting team

8timechamps
3/8/2012, 06:19 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, but people might just not care as much until the tourney. For all the people who talk about "the best post season in sports"....maybe it really does take away from regular season play. Look what we could do to football if some people had their way.

I'd agree except that it isn't as bad other places. Kinda like football, the best schools sell out and the others only see a spike in attendance when the best schools are traveling to their venue.

I was watching one of the small conference championship games last Thursday, and they were playing in what looked to be about a 10,000 seat arena, and it looked like there were about 1,000 people there (if that). Basketball just isn't as popular as football.

OU_Sooners75
3/9/2012, 03:06 PM
I dunno man. We used to be going to the tourney every single year under Kelvin and I don't think we were "packed" into the LNC then.

Alls you have to do is look at the attendance of when we are consistently winning 20+ games compared to now when we are losing 15+ games a season.

To be honest, I don't know when the last time OU in a season averaged a sellout in basketball. I don't think OU did that in the Tubbs era...but I could be wrong on that. I do know 1990, the place always seemed to be packed.

The fact is, our attendance will vary greatly depending on the product the team is providing.

If they are winning, there are more butts in the seats. If we are losing, there are less butts in the seats....just the way it goes...and it is not just at OU.

But I will add this:

The LNC is one of the crappiest places to go watch a sporting event! Great for concerts, but crappy for sports! I think this also adds to the attendance woes.

CowboyMRW
3/9/2012, 03:17 PM
I'd agree except that it isn't as bad other places. Kinda like football, the best schools sell out and the others only see a spike in attendance when the best schools are traveling to their venue.

I was watching one of the small conference championship games last Thursday, and they were playing in what looked to be about a 10,000 seat arena, and it looked like there were about 1,000 people there (if that). Basketball just isn't as popular as football.

But it's still not what it was even 5 years ago across the nation. I mean come on, when a school like Duke who lives and breathes basketball has trouble selling out their 8500 capacity arena or whatever it is every single game then attendance is bad across the land.

To be honest, I think a big deal is also the quality of television. Nowadays people have 47 inch HD tv's in their living room where they can watch a game in crystal clear definition without leaving their favorite seat on the couch. It's not the same as being there but it's getting to be pretty damn close with the upgrades in cinematography or whatever the word is.

badger
3/9/2012, 03:19 PM
But I will add this:

The LNC is one of the crappiest places to go watch a sporting event! Great for concerts, but crappy for sports! I think this also adds to the attendance woes.

Agree, and part of that is the setup and policies that make it pretty unwelcoming:

1- Bathrooms and concessions are all upstairs. If you have a lower seat, that's a lot of walking for an old fart to endure. I remember running the stairs as a student to make it go faster, but even then, it's a few minutes up, a few minutes back and a WAAAAAAY long time in a concession/bathroom line usually.

2- The halfway stairs can trap you.
Ever have this happen to you? You go to the closest stairway, and then when you meet a big line of chairs you realize that you chose poorly: These stairs don't go downstairs, they only go down halfway around the upper bowl. Arrrrrrrrgggggg

3- The yellow shirts hate you and do not trust you.
GOTTA CHECK THOSE TICKETS! So annoying. I know they dont' want cheapskates sitting in the $50 seats, but really, who gives a crap, there's empty seats downstairs, fill em or let em keep them warm for their rightful owners. Immediately. No first TV timeout thing, no waiting, just bring the fans in.

4- Concession selection is limited.
OK, so I get that OU is a dry campus and you don't wanna sell beer... but isn't LNC far enough away from the dorms and the frat houses and such that you could make an exception to appease the fanbase? So, if you're not gonna sell beer, sell more than mini-pizzas and nachos and Coke products.

5- It just hasn't been as fun as a non-student.
I still have fun at football games, with all of the yelling, all of the everything, but even when the basketball teams are good, it just isn't as fan friendly, it seems. They want you to sit and be silent, pretty much. How boring. Polite applause after points scored! Zzzzzzzzz

Chuck Bao
3/9/2012, 05:12 PM
I disagree with all of that.

There are toilets and concessions at the lower level at the south end.

The stairs going down to the lower levels are exactly across from the north, east south and west entrances.

The fans sitting just in front of our seats are crazy fans and will stand and cheer and high five us. Wouldn't want it any other way.

The event people in yellow shirts are pretty cool. I don't think they ever checked my ticket. By the end of the season, some of them knew me anyway.

Forget the beer, just don't take our cigarettes away. Like it really bothered anybody outside at the lower west entrance.

tulsaoilerfan
3/10/2012, 11:31 PM
College basketball attendance has been declining for the last several years and it's just going to get worse; USA Today covered this exact subject just this past week

NMSooner'80
3/12/2012, 02:02 PM
I hate it that OU attendance has fallen off, and I think in our case it has to do with a few things:

1. the "donor program" that OU put in place 28 years ago. I wasn't a resident of Oklahoma until that summer, but I heard a lot of basketball die-hards lost good seats to bozos who never use them.
2. even in the glory days of Tubbs, people still cared more about who was visiting the campus for football (recruiting).
3. an almost slavish-devotion to run-and-gun basketball. I'd rather win, but that's just me, if the up-tempo game isn't succeeding. Someone on an old OU hoops board once posted that they knew someone who readily admitted he'd rather go 11-17 and "run" than go 28-5 with a "boring" offense.
4. back in the late 70's, basketball was a "new thing" on campus, including the LNC. Now it seems like most OU students just don't care, no matter what.

Chuck Bao
3/12/2012, 02:32 PM
I hate it that OU attendance has fallen off, and I think in our case it has to do with a few things:

1. the "donor program" that OU put in place 28 years ago. I wasn't a resident of Oklahoma until that summer, but I heard a lot of basketball die-hards lost good seats to bozos who never use them.
2. even in the glory days of Tubbs, people still cared more about who was visiting the campus for football (recruiting).
3. an almost slavish-devotion to run-and-gun basketball. I'd rather win, but that's just me, if the up-tempo game isn't succeeding. Someone on an old OU hoops board once posted that they knew someone who readily admitted he'd rather go 11-17 and "run" than go 28-5 with a "boring" offense.
4. back in the late 70's, basketball was a "new thing" on campus, including the LNC. Now it seems like most OU students just don't care, no matter what.

I think that is very true. I think I know where the student section is, but they don't make any more noise than the blue hairs around my section, at least they don't for women's basketball. It'd be a lot more fun for them if their seats were much closer to courtside.

badger
3/12/2012, 03:50 PM
That USA Today article from Friday kind of touched on the fact that it's the younger generation that doesn't care to attend as much any more, perhaps out of convenience, perhaps out of cost.

It is easier to watch on TV, via the vast amount of techie options (even little cell phones can play live basketball games now) available. And it's cheaper.

Cheap and easy is the new generational way. Fighting traffic, finding parking , paying for tickets and concessions, and sitting in your plastic uncomfy chair with a big fat guy in front of you blocking the court view while yellow shirts tell you to sit down and shaddap is soooooo last generation :P

oumartin
3/12/2012, 08:02 PM
Don't suck

ouleaf
3/15/2012, 09:10 AM
Yeah, the arrival of the Thunder will definitely hurt both OU and OSU's basketball attendance. The Thunder are simply a better product, and they are located in a downtown setting where you can walk around, get dinner/drinks before the game. Lloyd Noble is pretty well isolated from everything, and there aren't really many tailgaters when it's not football season. Winning cures everything though, so if they can put together some successful seasons, the attendance numbers will start to trend back up.

StoopTroup
3/16/2012, 04:33 AM
The Thunder won't always be this good. Wait until they lose a key player or they get older and their level of play declines. It's all about winning. The inbeteeens are just that inbeteeens. Just waiting to see if it's clearly going to be a winning playoff season or not.

Same with College Basketball. If you don't get in the NIT at the very least, forget about attendance and hope that next year things will be better. Parity in college Basketball whether Men's or Women's is a big part of winning. Teams have lots of good players anymore. It's not about sucking....it's about winning. Some folks don't know the difference.