What would it take...

[8timechamps]

What would it take for a professional football league to succeed at a high level (and possibly rival the NFL)?

I'm thinking money. If a group of folks stepped up and decided to make a real run at the NFL, I think it could be done. I remember the USFL days, but I never really researched why it failed (seems like the NFL sued, or something).

Thoughts?

[rekamrettuB]

Enough money to hire away the best players in the NFL.

The lawsuit you speak of was actually filed by the USFL vs the NFL claiming a monopoly. It was a last ditch effort to compete and, after the verdict, folded.

[8timechamps]

Enough money to hire away the best players in the NFL.

The lawsuit you speak of was actually filed by the USFL vs the NFL claiming a monopoly. It was a last ditch effort to compete and, after the verdict, folded.

That's what I'm thinking too. If the money was enough to sign top rated rookies and attract top rated free agents, it could work.

Regarding the lawsuit, see...I don't know anything about it. I know ESPN did a 30 for 30 movie about it, but I didn't see it. Maybe I should try to find it.

[rekamrettuB]

That's what I'm thinking too. If the money was enough to sign top rated rookies and attract top rated free agents, it could work.

Regarding the lawsuit, see...I don't know anything about it. I know ESPN did a 30 for 30 movie about it, but I didn't see it. Maybe I should try to find it.

It was a good show. Another interesting show was about the old AFL. It was a 5 part series called Football in Color or Full Color Football (or something like that). Both are really interesting.

[Scott D]

It would take an Al Davis in his 40s

[badger]

It was a good show. Another interesting show was about the old AFL. It was a 5 part series called Football in Color or Full Color Football (or something like that). Both are really interesting.

It was a good 30 for 30. Here's a clip with "The Donald"

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I couldn't find a clip of it, but USFL won its lawsuit against the NFL... and the check was for a paltry sum, like less than a few hundred dollars. They never cashed the check and in fact the 30 for 30 filmmaker showed it to Trump, who just kind of glanced at it and handed it back.

Trump is all ego, as we all know if we've seen him for more than a few seconds on TV, and the USFL was a big failure on his record (and he has many, including his casino empire and some of the stuff he sticks his name on). So, for him to participate at all in the 30 for 30 was interesting, because the documentary does nothing but blame him for the USFL's demise.

Anyway, I would LOVE for there to be another professional football league in this country, because there are so many talented players that have outstanding careers in college... and so few opportunities in the NFL. Here's a few things that would need to happen:

1- A shorter season with lower but feasible salaries. The era of NFL lowballing top players is over. Drew Brees is going to get his $18 mil per year and the Saints are going to probably sink for it, as they won't be able to sign many other top free agents around him (like his blind side protector). BUT, considering the paltry sums that Canadian football and Arena football pay ($30k for the lowest, maybe $250k for the highest in CFL; $400 to $1,000 per game in Arena).

2- Local ties. Get franchises close to major college programs and hire their player alums to play. If Q was still running wild and Rufus was killing offenses in a local franchise, you can't tell me that Sooner fans wouldn't turn out to see him and yell QQQQQQQ and RUUUUUUU. :) Another possibility is hiring on ex-NFL players in NFL markets as sort of a farm club league.

3- A season that doesn't conflict with the NFL or college. Very important. The USFL tried it and failed. Keep it in the offseason or don't bother.

[StoopTroup]

You'll have to put every team in cities that currently don't have an NFL Team. I think a Los Angeles Team, a Albequerque Team, a Salt Lake City, a Raleigh Durham, a OKC or Tulsa Team, a Memphis Team etc....

You then need to get rid of the things that make the NFL stupid like end zone dances/celebration rules. Maybe just limit them to 15-30 seconds. :D

Get rid of the Heavy Pads and make things Faster. Use real athletes instead of obese monstrosity that can barely move.

Speed the game up.

No Texas Teams. ;)

[KantoSooner]

I'm thinking a good example to look at might be either the country/club system in Irish Rugby or the town/club based system in Australia.
Neither play at the level of the big national teams and most of their players are in essence weekend warriors (albeit some very serious lads), but they offer an opportunity the big time doesn't: you can go watch a game standing next to the drinks wagon with anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand fans. More like highschool football here only with full grown men playing.
We're more of a media culture here, so teevee would have to play a role, but I'd love to watch football, decent football, played from say March through August. With the added thrill of maybe watching some local hero get signed onto an NFL squad just as his 'summer ball' season comes to an end.
Damn, it sounds better and better! When does this season start and where are they playing, anyway?

[StoopTroup]

Make them all Government Employees and give them lifetime healthcare like Senators get. Also limit their salaries to $125,000 pet year. Sociolist Football League like the OKC Obamas or the Salt Lake City Stalins....lol

[Curly Bill]

I barely watch the NFL, I surely won't watch an inferior product.


Someone said something about it being like high school football but with grown men playing? Yeah, no thanks.

...but if they do something and it works for the football junkies out there, it's no skin off my nose.

[StoopTroup]

I barely watch the NFL, I surely won't watch an inferior product.

I think the idea here is to replace the NFL or compete with them in ways that might improve the monopoly and force fed Nazi Regime that the NFL has become. Fans no longer are important to the NFL and its becoming less and less entertaining and affordable. There are plenty of ways to get another league going.

[BBQ Man]

Money and Patience! You need to have money to last for many years without making a profit. And while you don't need to grow as slowly as the MLS, the league would need to be content with using 2nd string NFLers as starters for a while. It can't win a bidding war against the NFL.

It will need to focus on markets without NFL teams: LA, San Antonio, Portland, Birmingham, Orlando, Toronto, Salt Lake City, Las Veggas, OKC, etc., but it will need to enter some of the big NFL markets too. No league will get respect without New York, Chicago and Boston.

[StoopTroup]

I think Minor League Baseball Teams have shown that they can be successful in many markets if they offer value and City Pride and not try and compete with the MLB. There is plenty of guys who are good enough to be a part of of Minor League Football League. I still think the USFL's problem was trying to land #1 Draft Picks and pay them millions. Imagine if every player was paid the same salary and they made extra money by performance. You know....wins.
You just can't compete with the budgets of these NFL Teams and you probably are going to need to have the games on weeks other than the 16 the NFL currently uses.

[badger]

Money and Patience! You need to have money to last for many years without making a profit. And while you don't need to grow as slowly as the MLS, the league would need to be content with using 2nd string NFLers as starters for a while. It can't win a bidding war against the NFL.

That's what sank the Arena league temporarily. They were paying players decent wages and were like $16 mil in the hole to debtors. As one player put it...


"The numbers are unbelievable. My last year in the AFL, I made $140,000. This year, they're offering $400 a game." He went on to explain that in the new league, players are all offered the same salary -- each team works on that $400 flat pay scale, which means that for a 16-game season, the average AFL player is going to take home a whopping $6,400 a year.

Link (http://www.asylum.com/2010/03/01/jeremy-unertl-players-dish-the-dirt-on-arena-football-leagues-return/)

Startup leagues just cannot afford to pay athletes competitive wages.

[StoopTroup]

but it will need to enter some of the big NFL markets too. No league will get respect without New York, Chicago and Boston.

I like a lot of what you said but respect? I think you get respect by being successful and creating a league that isn't on the verge of bankruptcy. I think one of the ways you do that is to stay out of NFL Markets. The NFL loves folks in America that support New York or Dallas but live in rural America. They now think the NFL is Americas Sport. Not Football but the NFL. I think you lock out the Cities that compete with you.

[rekamrettuB]

Personally I want all the top talent in one league only. No reason to dilute the NFL, NBA, MLB by splitting the talent pool.

[StoopTroup]

That's what sank the Arena league temporarily. They were paying players decent wages and were like $16 mil in the hole to debtors. As one player put it...



Link (http://www.asylum.com/2010/03/01/jeremy-unertl-players-dish-the-dirt-on-arena-football-leagues-return/)

Startup leagues just cannot afford to pay athletes competitive wages.
That's the things you will need to overcome. People coming to games and Cities promoting and financially supporting the Teams with at the very least facilities and an ad campaign maybe will need to happen. Local benefactors and maybe even Private Businesses will all need to buy into it in order to build it.

[badger]

Or perhaps a gimmick?

Remember when the Lingerie Football League wanted to come to OKC and Mayor Mick turned them down?

More info in a fun Lost Ogle interview here. (http://www.thelostogle.com/2010/11/18/lost-ogle-qa-lingerie-football-league-chairman-mitchell-mortaza/)

An excerpt:


Q: Greetings from North Korea! Thanks so much for taking the time to answer some of our questions.

When I first wrote about the LFL’s OKC expansion plans, I said “Hopefully more details on the team (and the probable effort by our city’s conservative leaders to block its arrival) will be announced soon.”�

Well, I guess you can say I wasn’t too surprised that the Mayor voiced his displeasure. That being said, how surprised were you? Have you encountered anything like this before?

A: Shocked, that an elected official even from a conservative state such as Oklahoma would not take the time to explore the league prior to passing his own judgment and influencing others.

[BBQ Man]

I like a lot of what you said but respect? I think you get respect by being successful and creating a league that isn't on the verge of bankruptcy. I think one of the ways you do that is to stay out of NFL Markets. The NFL loves folks in America that support New York or Dallas but live in rural America. They now think the NFL is Americas Sport. Not Football but the NFL. I think you lock out the Cities that compete with you.

I agree and maybe I should have said to get media respect. The media is in love with those cities and focuses most of their effort there. It's kind of like the east coast bias that has prevented OU from being ranked higher many seasons.

I'm not sure how much this applies to corporate sponsorship, but it might apply there too.

[Curly Bill]

Personally I want all the top talent in one league only. No reason to dilute the NFL, NBA, MLB by splitting the talent pool.

Yup

[pphilfran]

A billion in start up money...a tv contract...and the ability to absorb massive losses for five to ten years...

[Flagstaffsooner]

The USFL was great. It was a spring league which was great for addict like me. The trouble was that the greed and ego boys got into the system. They sued the NFL with the ultimate hope of forcing their teams to be merged into the NFL like the AFL did.
The USFL won the suit but the jurors had no idea what to award the USFL and mistakingly awarded the USFL $1 thinking that the judge would adjust the award. The judge didnt and because it was an anti-monopoly suit the plaintiffs were awarded treble damages, $3.
BTW, I was a season ticket holder as was Olevet.

http://www.usfl.info/mainimages/big-outlaws.png

[StoopTroup]

I agree and maybe I should have said to get media respect. The media is in love with those cities and focuses most of their effort there. It's kind of like the east coast bias that has prevented OU from being ranked higher many seasons.

I'm not sure how much this applies to corporate sponsorship, but it might apply there too.

I think the NFL takes fans for granted and my idea is that local news needs something to get excited about besides the next teacher sleeping with her student or the next dirty politician. I think if a mid level city league started out small at first that other cities would garner interest as long as they could show profitability to every Team win or lose.

There may be some folks who will never want a minor league but I've been going to some of the 66ers games this year and I loved Talon Games as well as hockey here. I think there is a way to make a minor league successful if they take it slow and maybe even give players an interest in it for helping get it off the ground. Build Team loyalty and don't allow free agency or maybe even agents or players unions.

[8timechamps]

Personally I want all the top talent in one league only. No reason to dilute the NFL, NBA, MLB by splitting the talent pool.

That's a good point. What about an NFL sponsored minor league? Would you folks have interest in a spring minor league?

Not a replacement for college ball, because that won't happen, but a place for guys to continue their careers and possibly move up.

[rekamrettuB]

That's a good point. What about an NFL sponsored minor league? Would you folks have interest in a spring minor league?

Not a replacement for college ball, because that won't happen, but a place for guys to continue their careers and possibly move up.

At least here you could be "watching a future star" like minor league baseball. That, plus the closeness to the field and game, is a primary appeal of minor league baseball. It probably losses money too but, as you said, is sponsored by MLB.

[8timechamps]

At least here you could be "watching a future star" like minor league baseball. That, plus the closeness to the field and game, is a primary appeal of minor league baseball. It probably losses money too but, as you said, is sponsored by MLB.

What makes MiLB so successful, in addition to watching future stars, is the connection to the community and to MLB. The NFL tried something similar (WFL), but I never understood doing it in Europe. I'd think something like that would work in the US with the support of the NFL.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

...but I never understood doing it in Europe.

Beat me to it.

Point being, they already have a minor league. It's called college and practice squads. So if you're the NFL, do you sink money and time into promoting a farm system for player development when you have low-cost options that don't require the management and marketing front end? Do you put the wear and tear on your prospects throughout a minor league season that could be better spent getting reps with the squad itself? Granted, I bet the community would seriously get behind minor league football if it was an NFL product, but why would the NFL bother?

[WA. Sooner]

TV contract without one the same as nfl there is no competition

[StoopTroup]

Beat me to it.

Point being, they already have a minor league. It's called college and practice squads. So if you're the NFL, do you sink money and time into promoting a farm system for player development when you have low-cost options that don't require the management and marketing front end? Do you put the wear and tear on your prospects throughout a minor league season that could be better spent getting reps with the squad itself? Granted, I bet the community would seriously get behind minor league football if it was an NFL product, but why would the NFL bother?

It worked for Kurt Warner as well as quite a few others.

[StoopTroup]

I think Snoop Dogg had some sort of MJ League didn't he?

Kinda like SNL's All Drug Olympics but exclusive to Football....LOL.

You get a big ole bong hit everytime you score?

[8timechamps]

Beat me to it.

Point being, they already have a minor league. It's called college and practice squads. So if you're the NFL, do you sink money and time into promoting a farm system for player development when you have low-cost options that don't require the management and marketing front end? Do you put the wear and tear on your prospects throughout a minor league season that could be better spent getting reps with the squad itself? Granted, I bet the community would seriously get behind minor league football if it was an NFL product, but why would the NFL bother?

I know the NFL considers the NCAA their farm system, and why not, it really is. But, it seems like there is a market for a real minor league. There are players that just aren't quite talented to play in the NFL, but outside of Arena football, or the Canadian league, there are no other options. Seems like they would make something work. I guess there's always the UFL.

[8timechamps]

I recently heard about the Professional American Football League of India (which is what prompted this post). With India's population, it could work. Although I don't know how interested the people of India would be in American football. We'll see in about a year.

Here's the LINK (http://www.efli.com/)