My Thoughts About Big 12 Changes

[soonerboomer]

First, my thoughts about the schools leaving the Big 12 and their football future.

1. Colorado: I just don't see the Colorado ever winning the a PAC 12 conference/division championship having to play Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, USC, and UCLA every year and the other six teams two out of every four years. Recruiting players on the west coast, Arizona, and Utah will be extremely difficult competing against the other PAC 12 schools. Before moving to the PAC 12 some recruits in the Big 12 area liked the idea of attending school near the beautiful Rocky Mountains with ski slopes nearby.

2. Nebraska: Joining the Big 10 was probably not a bad move for Nebraska. Geographically, they seem to fit in OK. Will they be as successful in competing division/conference championships including the national championship as they were while in the Big 8/12? I just don't know. In the past the Big 10 has generally been a weak conference in football when compared to the Big 12, PAC 12, and SEC. However, it seems to be improving. I believe recruiting will drop off for Nebraska in the Big 12 area, especially in Texas and Oklahoma. I don't see recruits in the Big 10 area fighting to go to Lincoln, NE where it gets extremely windy and cold in the middle of nowhere. Believe me, I lived near Omaha, NE for over eight years.

3. Missouri: This move almost blows my mind. Last fall while in Branson, MO, I talked to numerous Missouri Tiger fans. Not a single one liked the idea of moving from the Big 12 to the SEC. I have to agree with all the reasons they mentioned including not competing for division & conference championships, travel distance for the fans, not fitting in geographically, recruiting, etc. Recruiting players from Texas and Oklahoma will drop off drastically. Nor will players from the SEC area want to play for Missouri, a team which will not compete for division/conference championships and located in the middle of nowhere. In the past many Missouri recruits from the Kansas City and St. Louis areas have gone to Big 12 schools which I believe will not change. Missouri will certainly wish they had not made the move to the SEC and may even attempt to return, provided they can swallow their pride.

4. Texas A&M: When I think about Texas A&M leaving the Big 12 for the SEC the word "crybaby" pops into my mind. Do they think that they will be more successful in the SEC? I don't think so. OK, so they won't have to play Texas ever year. In fact they will not have to play Texas ever! Moving to a new conference because of one team is foolish and childish. I don't ever think Oklahoma State would leave the Big 12 because they no longer wanted to play Oklahoma. As with Missouri, I don't ever see Texas A&M winning a division or conference championship. This would require beating Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, and Mississippi ST, etc. each year and Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, and S. Carolina two out of every four years. I don't see Texas recruits wanting to play for a team not likely to win championships or recruits from the SEC area wanting to play at Texas A&M. Losing games and traveling distances will deter fans from attending away games. Yes, Texas certainly made a big mistake moving to the SEC.

Second, my thoughts about schools coming to the Big 12 and schools we should consider adding.

1. West Virginia: I really like this addition as the Mountaineers are proven winners in football as well as other sports. The only negative I see is the traveling distance for Oklahoma and other Big 12 fans. As a retiree, I'm looking forward to driving to West Virgina and visiting their beautiful state for a few days before and after each game every other year for now and every four years after adding two more schools to the Big 12. Obviously, distance is no problem for the team as they fly to several other sites including some in the Big 12. Nor is flying a problem for those who can afford to fly. I just like to drive and enjoy the sites along the way.

2. Texas Christian University. I also really like this addition. Everything about this addition is positive with absolutely no negatives. I will enjoy going to Fort Worth as I have in the past when attending Oklahoma at TCU games.

3. Schools that we should consider that I believe might be willing to join the Big 12 are Louisville and Brigham Young. If one or neither join the Big 12, I suggest looking at Cincinnati, Rutgers, and/or Connecticut as West Virginia needs some neighbors. Brigham Young, now an independent, is probably a long shot. I didn't mention Boise State as they probably are not willing to make another change. Schools located in our area between Canada & Mexico and the Mississippi River and Rocky Mountains which have been mentioned include Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force Academy, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Tulsa, Southern Methodist, Houston, and Tulane. I don't think that the Air Force Academy will be willing to make another change. Most of the others should not be considered except maybe Tulane, Colorado State, and Houston. Each of these three schools are located in large metropolitan areas (New Orleans, Denver, and Houston) which would increase the fan base, TV dollars, and recruiting areas. Southern Methodist probably would not add much with Texas Christian already in the area. Nor would Tulsa add much in the Tulsa/NW OK area.


My preference is to add two more schools to the northern division. Louisville and Cincinnati are my favorite schools, giving W. Virginia a couple of neighbors. The southern division already has six schools (Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas Christian, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State).

[SoonerorLater]

I pretty much agree with you

1. Colorado - Actually I'm surprised they didn't leave a long time ago. They have always recruited the West Coast and there are many California ex-patriots that have moved to Colorado. It seems like a natural fit for them. That said it really wasn't a great loss for the Big 12 or a big gain for the PAC. Denver is a Pro sports town and CU will always be an aftertought there.

2. Nebraska - Not a bad move for Nebraska. It will probably work out ok for them. I do question whether a move to the Big 10 makes Nebraska Football look a lot more like Iowa Football going forward.

3. Missouri - This one is a head-scratcher. This could be the single worst conference move of all time.

4. Texas A&M - All in all life probably won't change much for A&M. They most likely will be a mediocre team in the SEC with an occasional run at a title.


1. West Virginia - logistics for the fans aside, the Big 12 is getting a very good football / basketball program.

2. Texas Christian University - A great geographical get for the Big 12. It remains to be seen if TCU can continue at the level of the past decade but if they do the addition of these two teams will give the Big 12 a solid claim as the number two football conference


As to future expansion, I think there may be some merit in the rumors that we could try to entice a couple of football-centric ACC programs to come to the Big 12 (FSU, Clemson). If the Big 12 were to be able to do that it could lay claim to being the best Football Conference in the country.

[oumartin]

why do people think we care about their thoughts?

That's my thoughts.

[OU_Sooners75]

BYU will likely not be a member of the Big 12 any time soon.

They might be if the Big 12 cannot get some other teams first.

List of teams that should be ahead of them and even Louisville, and some of these have (or would) take very deep consideration to join...

1. Florida State
2. Notre Dame (In all sports)
3. Clemson
4. Georgia Tech
5. Louisville
6. Rutgers
7. Miami (FL)
8. South Florida
9. Maryland
10. Pittsburgh
11. Cincinnati
12. BYU
13. Boise State


As you can see, the western schools are last.

It would make absolutely no sense for the Big 12 to go west for two very mediocre to bad athletic departments since gaining West Virginia.

If the Big 12 is serious about expanding and adding stability, they better not leave West Virginia on an island out east.

Louisville would be a good addition because it would bridge the gap between WVU and the rest of the Big 12. However, I do not see WVU voting for UofL at first since they are kind of upset about how politicians of Kentucky got involved when the Big 12 was going for UofL and WVU as invitees.

Also, with the ACC more of a basketball conference and their TV deals lacking so to speak, I can see the Big 12 getting agressive and poaching a few schools that are football first, like FSU, Clemson, GT, and Miami.

I also see South Florida, Rutgers, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh getting a serious offer before BYU...along with Notre Dame.

[ouwasp]

It's too bad for Mizzou that the Big 10 rebuffed their sought after position. That would have been a good fit I think.

Wish AFA had wanted to come into the Big XII.

[8timechamps]

It's too bad for Mizzou that the Big 10 rebuffed their sought after position. That would have been a good fit I think.

Wish AFA had wanted to come into the Big XII.

I would have loved for the AFA to have joined the Big XII. I know it didn't make sense for either party, but it would have been fun.

Mizzou will spend the foreseeable future as a mediocre whipping boy in the SEC. All I heard the fans (that were for the move to the SEC) saying was how great a financial move it was for them. But, the last time I checked, schools don't issue checks to the fans. They'll be sorry sooner than later.

[OUmillenium]

Pretty much agree with the above.

I won't miss Nebraska too much since the Big 12 conference schedule ruined the old Big Red rivalry, anyway.

What I will truly miss is Mizzou not being on the conference basketball schedule. Weird. I actually enjoy watching their team play and have not developed any hate for their coach, yet - unlike the old Big 8 days of hoping the Sooners would drop a serious beatdown on Norm Stewart and the Antlers. Mizzou has always been a staple for me hoops wise. They will be back in 5 years or so, mark my words. Aggies maybe as well.

[Football Jim]

Colorado was, is and always will be irrelevant. Sure they had a season or two that were ok but not in a consistant way.

Nebraska will disappear somewhere in the middle of the Big 10. They may challenge a few times but they are finished as a power. They are going to be the poster program for mediocre.

Missouri, what a bad move, see Colorado.

TAMU, See Missouri and Colorado above.

West Virginia, good program, odd fit. We can only hope that they can stabilize the league somewhat.

TCU, good fit but they don't bring as much to the table as advertised.

It is still going to come down to OU and who can hang with Sooners. KSU might once in a while, the Whorns and WVU also may challenge.

[StoopTroup]

In life I have usually taken the attitude that if someone doesn't like something, especially this Big XII thing, that you shouldn't let the Door hit you in the a$$ on the way out the door.

Nebraska got beat out of a final **** You Big XII by us and Colorado has sucked for nearly two decades now.

Missouri and TAMU, although competitive at times never where serious contenders for a Big XII title.

As the Big XII rebuilds after the above teams seek out greener pastures, I await the new found competition and welcome it. Like DKR now, I have forgotten the 4 teams that left the Big XII.

It just doesn't matter. Watch out for that door you're exiting Mizzou and TAMU.

[SoonerSpock]

why do people think we care about their thoughts?

That's my thoughts.

For the same reason you post your thoughts. To be heard anonymously.

[Salt City Sooner]

In life I have usually taken the attitude that if someone doesn't like something, especially this Big XII thing, that you shouldn't let the Door hit you in the a$$ on the way out the door.

Nebraska got beat out of a final **** You Big XII by us and Colorado has sucked for nearly two decades now.

Missouri and TAMU, although competitive at times never where serious contenders for a Big XII title.

As the Big XII rebuilds after the above teams seek out greener pastures, I await the new found competition and welcome it. Like DKR now, I have forgotten the 4 teams that left the Big XII.

It just doesn't matter. Watch out for that door you're exiting Mizzou and TAMU.
Don't try to sell that one to a K-State fan (see 1998).I'd also point out that Mizzou was in the CCG in '07 as the #1 team in the nation. I'd call that pretty serious personally, although the good guys still came out on top. Your point largely stands though, they've been sporadic at best.

[soonervegas]

If Boren would have kept his mouth shut the Big 12 could look like this right now:

Texas
OU
TCU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Baylor

West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Missouri
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Although Mizzou makes no sense in the SEC, once Boren spoke Mizzou overreacted and took a save yourself 1st mentality. (and I don't blame them)

[rainiersooner]

why do people think we care about their thoughts?

That's my thoughts.

Because it's a message board?

[UberSooner]

I don't like the addition of West Virginia. Going in there and taking a win will be tougher than people realize. They have only 5 home losses in the last 5 seasons and they are a team on the rise. They don't bring anything to the table but the role of spoiler in my opinion.

[badger]

why do people think we care about their thoughts?

That's my thoughts.

I normally am anti "my opinion" threads, but since it is offseason and these "my thoughts" threads aren't plaguing actual Sooner news during the football season like they tend to (especially after losses) I'm cool with it.


If Boren would have kept his mouth shut

I think nobody disagrees that it would have been best if he stuck his foot in his mouth to be quiet instead of sticking his foot in his mouth to yap yap yap on the Pac 16 pod plan and going into executive session to explore confernece reallignment along with OSU and holding a press conference with Joe C. and Bob Stoops. Gaaaaaahhhhh.

Of course, the conference sh!t is all Mizzou's fault for their governor's endless yap yap yap about the Big Ten. So eff Mizzou. Have fun traveling to the eastern division and if your $12.4 mil check doesn't clear, we are NOT taking you back at full pay.


BYU will likely not be a member of the Big 12 any time soon.

I don't know if anyone else that isn't currently a member will be a member anytime soon. I could see a "wait and see" approach to see how this new fangled conference thingie works out. If it's determined that we are strong enough and want to/need to expand, I could see West Virginia pulling for some of their old Big East rivals to come aboard.

BYU? It might have some allies. And by that time, they might feel more left out in the college sports picture (same with Domer) and want a conference home of their own.


Wish AFA had wanted to come into the Big XII.

It's a position that you have to admire and respect. I don't have a link or an exact quote, but the AFA football coach basically said that with the Big 12 television contract revenue and other incentives of being in the Big 12, they could expand their stadium, make their facilities nicer, etc. BUT, the Air Force players also have another purpose besides playing football and being in a more competitive conference like the Big 12 might be detrimental to some of their military futures. In a nutshell, the money would be nice, but we like where we are now and don't have really any reason to move up. Thanks but no thanks.

[OU_Sooners75]

If Boren would have kept his mouth shut the Big 12 could look like this right now:

Texas
OU
TCU
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Baylor

West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Missouri
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Although Mizzou makes no sense in the SEC, once Boren spoke Mizzou overreacted and took a save yourself 1st mentality. (and I don't blame them)

OH please, Missouri was the one that opened up the shopping network well before Boren opened his mouth!

[8timechamps]

I think Mizzou leaving hurts like when Nebraska left. Although Mizzou never won a title in football, they brought a competitive program to the Big XII. I honestly didn't want them to leave.

[Sabanball]

Predictable--bad mouth the teams that left the Big 12 and paint it as a negative and portray the two new members as the smartest, most forward-thinking schools in the country. Wow, I'm shocked....

I think TAMU and Mizzou will likely struggle early on in football, but will eventually acclimate to the SEC and be very competitive. In fact, if the tigers can upset Georgia in their SEC opener in Columbia, I see them making some noise in their first season.

Regarding WVU, I really think you guys are going to regret bringing them in, I think they will compete right away for your conference championship. Keep in mind they are only in the Big 12 because the SEC would not accept them as a new member, where by the way I think personally they would have been a better fit.

[OU_Sooners75]

^^^^^Oh, so according to captain elephant **** over here, we are doomed because WVU is SEC caliber and the Big 12 is just too weak to handle them!

Gotcha moron!

[Sabanball]

^^^^^Oh, so according to captain elephant **** over here, we are doomed because WVU is SEC caliber and the Big 12 is just too weak to handle them!

Gotcha moron!

Gonna talk smack, huh? Four words in response--6 in a row.:playful:...eat your heart out.(for Okie State fans it's two words--Iowa State)

All the mizzou people that I've talked to, both in person and on their message boards, seem genuinely excited about joining our league. Interesting--Mizzou billboards going up all around the South:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/missouri-billboards-root-sec-country-212529791.html

[trwxxa]

We are going to wish we were in one of those four schools position in a couple of years when the ESPN/NBC/whatever TV negotiations occur and Texas sticks a fork in everybody else.

[OU_Sooners75]

Gonna talk smack, huh? Four words in response--6 in a row.:playful:...eat your heart out.(for Okie State fans it's two words--Iowa State)

All the mizzou people that I've talked to, both in person and on their message boards, seem genuinely excited about joining our league. Interesting--Mizzou billboards going up all around the South:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/missouri-billboards-root-sec-country-212529791.html

In other words:

"I live vicariously through my conference and not my team!"

I got some numbers for you: 2-1-1

[OU_Sooners75]

We are going to wish we were in one of those four schools position in a couple of years when the ESPN/NBC/whatever TV negotiations occur and Texas sticks a fork in everybody else.

Texas isn't going anywhere. And if they do...good!

NBC will come in and offer a ton of money...you watch!

[OU_Sooners75]

Gonna talk smack, huh? Four words in response--6 in a row.:playful:...eat your heart out.(for Okie State fans it's two words--Iowa State)

All the mizzou people that I've talked to, both in person and on their message boards, seem genuinely excited about joining our league. Interesting--Mizzou billboards going up all around the South:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/missouri-billboards-root-sec-country-212529791.html

OH...and yeah, they should be excited....they get new programs to kick their *** now!

[Sabanball]

In other words:

"I live vicariously through my conference and not my team!"



I got some numbers for you: 2-1-1

I'm proud of my team, that has 8 AP NC's, AND my conference.

2-1-1, you say? Whoaaaa......total domination! lol....I'll gladly let you have the h/h series from the early part of the decade in exchange for two NC's in two opportunities in three yrs under Saban. BTW, our two programs are actually even on the scoreboard.

[Sabanball]

We are going to wish we were in one of those four schools position in a couple of years when the ESPN/NBC/whatever TV negotiations occur and Texas sticks a fork in everybody else.

I think you will, too, and it was not necessary. Thank you, David Boren.

[trwxxa]

Texas isn't going anywhere. And if they do...good!

NBC will come in and offer a ton of money...you watch!

Texas may not go anywhere, but regardless of the outcome, they will get the lion's share of the pie. The other 9, or however many schools remain, will be left with scraps.

[Salt City Sooner]

Predictable--bad mouth the teams that left the Big 12 and paint it as a negative and portray the two new members as the smartest, most forward-thinking schools in the country. Wow, I'm shocked....

I think TAMU and Mizzou will likely struggle early on in football, but will eventually acclimate to the SEC and be very competitive. In fact, if the tigers can upset Georgia in their SEC opener in Columbia, I see them making some noise in their first season.

Regarding WVU, I really think you guys are going to regret bringing them in, I think they will compete right away for your conference championship. Keep in mind they are only in the Big 12 because the SEC would not accept them as a new member, where by the way I think personally they would have been a better fit.
I have to agree on this one. It's not the biggest sample size, but Pinkel is 4-1 vs. the SEC (although to be fair, 2 of those were the Orgeron trainwreck at Ole Miss) in his time at Mizzou. Stylistically, their offense is unlike any other one in that league, & teams aren't going to have a month to prepare for it, ala' bowl games. I personally equate that situation to our game w/ Air Force in 2010 in that respect. I could see other teams taking a while to catch on, IF it happens.

[Peach Fuzz]

I'm proud of my team, that has 8 AP NC's, AND my conference.

2-1-1, you say? Whoaaaa......total domination! lol....I'll gladly let you have the h/h series from the early part of the decade in exchange for two NC's in two opportunities in three yrs under Saban. BTW, our two programs are actually even on the scoreboard.

Damn fine program. Wish we would over-sign and all that other bull**** you sister-humpers do. Trent richardson sure has some nice ****, before he had anything to pay for it hmmmm.

Back to the topic, of course your *** has to come in and say "but wait, the ones moving to the SEC made a great move and could be competitive, go SEC!" Maybe. Time and time again, you fill the typical SEC stereotype. Don't call anyone out for that ever again... seriously. If a&m and MO do come in and kick ***, SEC looks weak. You and your relatives will think your manliness is being questioned and defend the new guys as being better because of a better conference. I bet you have conflicting interests about that one.

You act as if we are scavenging because we are scared that our conference will die. I honestly don't know if you could find the majority in fans who want it to stay/implode. I seem to remember a lot of buzzing here in talks about heading west. Simply put, we will most likely end up in a great spot. It might not be easy to change, but we're not the ones relying on this conference. You seem to know a lot about Mr. Boren, he sure as hell was the one trying to keep it together huh? Wow lol.. It's also retarded that you try to counter with a Boren-slam or whatever... as if we all agreed to his bluffing and other crap. Where the **** were you last summer, when all this went down? If you don't know what you're talking about, it's best to not reply because some thread had SEC in it. Good one.

Basically, your argument sucks and is contradicting. You don't even need to reply to this, I don't even want an argument, after this post I wont even care anymore. Just shut the hell up and pass up your need to reply all the time.

[UberSooner]

^^^ I like this. There's genuine blood pressure elevation in that post.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

6 in a row.:playful

I'm impressed you have that many teeth. That definitely makes you above average in Alabama.

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm proud of my team, that has 8 AP NC's, AND my conference.

2-1-1, you say? Whoaaaa......total domination! lol....I'll gladly let you have the h/h series from the early part of the decade in exchange for two NC's in two opportunities in three yrs under Saban. BTW, our two programs are actually even on the scoreboard.

Hey, at least your coach is unethical when it comes to recruiting and being a coach.

[OU_Sooners75]

I wish Alabama had the balls to move to the Big 12! They would get *** rapped every year!

[LASooner]

Predictable--bad mouth the teams that left the Big 12 and paint it as a negative and portray the two new members as the smartest, most forward-thinking schools in the country. Wow, I'm shocked....

Get back to us after the milkmen with dead dogs wear out their welcome. Missouri was always a meh.

[Booner]

I hate to see the changes. Texas has made itself odious enough that those who could leave the Conference have done so.

TCU will fall back to extreme mediocrity once it has to play more than two good teams in a season.

West Viriginia? Well at least Texas Tech has someone they can point to as having a worse-behaved fanbase.:playful:

Once the newness wears off, I think most fans in the Conference will be mostly indifferent. I also think West Viriginia will lose a lot of luster when it begins playing a tougher schedule.

[TulsaSooners]

The conference has gotten significantly weaker both athletically and academically. No one can dare deny that. We may try to console ourselves by bashing those who left for greener pastures now that we're in a 4th tier conference, but the fact of the matter is that all of this bashing is solely due to jealousy. The WVU couch burning mountain hicks have been begging for decades to get into the SEC, but had to "settle" for being in this dump.

Simply put, I don't believe that OU should ever have to be in a 4th tier conference, or be a part of a conference that is willing to bring in anyone just to boost numbers.

[SoonerorLater]

[QUOTE=TulsaSooners;3460640]The conference has gotten significantly weaker both athletically and academically. No one can dare deny that.

I'll deny it. Replacing A&M and Mizzou with TCU and WV should most likely be considered an upgrade from a football perspective. Going forward I think you will see a push from the Big 12 to raid the ACC of it's football centric programs, specifically FSU and Clemson to form the Big 12 East.

[StoopTroup]

Changes I don't like is seeing Baylor allow Missouri to win the Big XII Basketball Championship on their way out the door.

It might be enough for me to break out my old "Ban Baylor!" t-shirt everyone got so upset about down in Wacko TX. :D