What should be done with Iran? [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

SicEmBaylor

2/16/2012, 07:39 PM

What if they start assassinating allie diplomats here in the US? Or even our diplomats abroad?
That would be an act of war, and we would certainly be justified acting in kind.

I know those are rumors right now, but why wait?
I can drive around any number of shady neighborhoods in the United States and find some characters that, by any reason, are likely to commit a heinous crime up to and including murder. It's pure speculation, but why wait to arrest them? Why not form a Department of Pre-Crime that makes it a mission to arrest people based purely on speculation and conjecture?

Actually I am not saying go in and attack them Yes you are. Admit it to yourself and us -- you believe in immediately bombing Iranian nuclear sites

but I think the US and the western world needs to do a lot better job at sactions and other means to advert a terrorist sponsoring state from gaining nuclear fuel!
Sanctions are virtually useless. And why should we sanction them? Sanctions are an act of war. I see no reason that would justify their use.

SicEmBaylor

2/16/2012, 07:43 PM

Ok, here we go.

NO, I didnt say that. But they are our allies. WE help THEM. WE PRO-TECT Them. They dont WANT war with Iran. But if IRAN wants some, they will get some.

That may not be what you meant, but that is certainly what you said. The point being that if Israel decides to go to war with Iran then we should immediately follow suit thus subjugating our defense policy to a foreign power that would lead us to yet another mid-east war with no clear strategic goals or clear end-point.

And why on Earth are we protecting and helping Israel? They have the strongest military in the region and are known to have more than enough nuclear weapons to wipe Iran off the map. And yet you contend that we should continue pouring billions into their economy, interfering with their internal defense policy, and subjugating our defense policy to their whims.

If Israel wants to wipe Iran off the map then we should neither hamstring them nor help them. It's t heir business and their problem.

oudavid1

2/16/2012, 07:46 PM

That may not be what you meant, but that is certainly what you said. The point being that if Israel decides to go to war with Iran then we should immediately follow suit thus subjugating our defense policy to a foreign power that would lead us to yet another mid-east war with no clear strategic goals or clear end-point.
This is subjective and the goal is for Iran not to devolve Nuclear capabilities of threat to the US.
And why on Earth are we protecting and helping Israel? They have the strongest military in the region and are known to have more than enough nuclear weapons to wipe Iran off the map.We do this so they DONT wipe Iran off the map. And yet you contend that we should continue pouring billions into their economy, interfering with their internal defense policy, and subjugating our defense policy to their whims.

If Israel wants to wipe Iran off the map then we should neither hamstring them nor help them. It's t heir business and their problem.

Alright Cain.

OU_Sooners75

2/16/2012, 07:55 PM

I can drive around any number of shady neighborhoods in the United States and find some characters that, by any reason, are likely to commit a heinous crime up to and including murder. It's pure speculation, but why wait to arrest them? Why not form a Department of Pre-Crime that makes it a mission to arrest people based purely on speculation and conjecture?

I think it is a safe bet to say that it is harder to pick one out of the crowd than it is to deal with someone that makes a threat before they act on it...dont you?

Yes you are. Admit it to yourself and us -- you believe in immediately bombing Iranian nuclear sites

Yeah, because that is the way I think. I never said, and maybe you should read the damn posts, that we should bomb Iran. I did ask what should the western world do...and why does the western world sit idol while Iran is thumbing their nose at the rest of the world?

Sanctions are virtually useless. And why should we sanction them? Sanctions are an act of war. I see no reason that would justify their use.

if sanctions are virtually useless, then what would you do to curtail their making of nuclear fuel?

I know...wait to see if they make a bomb...and then wait til they use said bomb, right? By then, it would be too late, IMO. Simply because they have expressed their desire to wipe Israel and the other "Zionists" off the face of this planet.

Something else needs done. Bombing, more strict sanctions, blockading their nation, boycotting their oil....something else needs done....period!

But do not confuse me in thinking I am a bomb first and ask questions later type of person....not even close to accurate.

As far as a blockade, the US could very easily do that, since they control or have influences on their borders; to their North (Afghanistan) and West (Iraq).

olevetonahill

2/16/2012, 08:06 PM

I got mo important things to worry about

Irans Nuclear crap should have been shut down years ago

SicEmBaylor

2/16/2012, 08:07 PM

I think it is a safe bet to say that it is harder to pick one out of the crowd than it is to deal with someone that makes a threat before they act on it...dont you?
Lots of people make threats. Some are empty and others not. More often than not, they're empty. We certainly shouldn't arrest or punish people for simply making a threat. That's absurd. And, yes, I know threatening the President is illegal as is threatening to blow up a plane while aboard, etc. etc.

Yeah, because that is the way I think. I never said, and maybe you should read the damn posts.
See, having someone speculate on your thoughts or intentions and judge you based on that really sucks doesn't it?

I did ask what should the western world do...and why does the western world sit idol while Iran is thumbing their nose at the rest of the world?
I didn't know that nations were required to bow before world consensus. I absolutely detest the United Nations and other international bodies with every thread and fiber in my being. The United States often, correctly, thumbs its nose at world opinion. The ICC is a good example of that.

Regardless of world opinion, Iran hasn't attacked anyone let alone the United States. If and when they do, we should certainly act accordingly.

if sanctions are virtually useless, then what would you do to curtail their making of nuclear fuel?
Nothing. I'm not Iranian and neither are you. Iran is a sovereign nation and has every right to act as it wishes. If they were to be foolish enough to use a nuclear device against one of its neighbors then it should certainly be prepared and responsible for the consequences.

I know...wait to see if they make a bomb...and then wait til they use said bomb, right? By then, it would be too late, IMO.
Khrushchev stood before the UN assembly and pounded his show on the podium while screaming to the western world, "WE WILL BURY YOU!" All the while, the Soviet Union was rapidly increasing both their conventional and nuclear forces. By any reasonable interpretation, the Soviet Union was threatening the rest of the world with its nuclear weapons. And, yet, they did not use them. And thankfully we didn't preemptively attack based purely on speculation. Had we "waited around" it would have been "too late." That line of reasoning is silly and ridiculous.

Something else needs done. Bombing, more strict sanctions, blockading their nation, boycotting their oil....something else needs done....period!

You just finished arguing with me that my assumption that this is one course of action you'd like to take is totally wrong. Yet here you are admitting it. That's fine by me. We both know you'd prefer to bomb Iran before they came into possession of a nuclear weapon.

But do not confuse me in thinking I am a bomb first and ask questions later type of person....not even close to accurate.
Asking questions is something of a moot point right now. Whatever questions would need to be asked have been asked ad-nauseum and for years. It's decision time one way or the other.

OU_Sooners75

2/16/2012, 08:07 PM

I got mo important things to worry about

Irans Nuclear crap should have been shut down years ago

At least you were worried enough to comment in this thread.

Thanks howie!

yermom

2/16/2012, 08:09 PM

let Israel bomb them if they need bombing

olevetonahill

2/16/2012, 08:16 PM

let Israel bomb them if they need bombing
Lets back emmup if they do tho.

They want Israel off the map

OU_Sooners75

2/16/2012, 08:17 PM

Lots of people make threats. Some are empty and others not. More often than not, they're empty. We certainly shouldn't arrest or punish people for simply making a threat. That's absurd. And, yes, I know threatening the President is illegal as is threatening to blow up a plane while aboard, etc. etc.

But you can get in trouble for making threats in this country.

See, having someone speculate on your thoughts or intentions and judge you based on that really sucks doesn't it?

I could careless what someone thinks of my thoughts or intentions. I don't go around making bold threats...but thanks for the spin nonetheless.

I didn't know that nations were required to bow before world consensus. I absolutely detest the United Nations and other international bodies with every thread and fiber in my being. The United States often, correctly, thumbs its nose at world opinion. The ICC is a good example of that.

I too detest the UN. But, I also think for the greater good of humanity, some State leaders need to be held in check. If no, we will just have a few large empires around the world...or we would all be speaking German! What happens if the US decided not to go into Europe? Hitler did not attack the US, but we got involved anyway.

Regardless of world opinion, Iran hasn't attacked anyone let alone the United States. If and when they do, we should certainly act accordingly.

Iraq didnt attack us. Afghanistan didnt attack us. Vietnam or Korea didnt attack us. Germany didnt attack us. The only three nations that I can think of that has attacked the US on American soil have been Mexico, Japan, and Britain. Maybe I am wrong on this though, history is not my strongest subject.

Nothing. I'm not Iranian and neither are you. Iran is a sovereign nation and has every right to act as it wishes. If they were to be foolish enough to use a nuclear device against one of its neighbors then it should certainly be prepared and responsible for the consequences.

What does being Iranian have to do with the price of rice?

I agree, if they are going to be foolish to use one, then they need to suffer the consequences. But I also think they are just stupid enough in their ideologies to actually use the damn weapon on innocent people.

Khrushchev stood before the UN assembly and pounded his show on the podium while screaming to the western world, "WE WILL BURY YOU!" All the while, the Soviet Union was rapidly increasing both their conventional and nuclear forces. By any reasonable interpretation, the Soviet Union was threatening the rest of the world with its nuclear weapons. And, yet, they did not use them. And thankfully we didn't preemptively attack based purely on speculation. Had we "waited around" it would have been "too late." That line of reasoning is silly and ridiculous.

Yeah, because Russia was also a proud sponsor of terrorism that supplies and trains terrorist to bomb and kill innocent people in the middle east (mainly Israel). Gotcha!

You just finished arguing with me that my assumption that this is one course of action you'd like to take is totally wrong. Yet here you are admitting it. That's fine by me. We both know you'd prefer to bomb Iran before they came into possession of a nuclear weapon.

Yet again, you are completely incorrect. I think bombing should always be the last resort....but I guess you fail to answer or acknowledge that I think something stronger needs to happen at this point. You are the moron that read a lot more than was written.

SicEmBaylor

2/16/2012, 08:27 PM

I too detest the UN. But, I also think for the greater good of humanity, some State leaders need to be held in check. If no, we will just have a few large empires around the world...or we would all be speaking German! What happens if the US decided not to go into Europe? Hitler did not attack the US, but we got involved anyway.
We didn't decide to go to war with Germany. Hitler declared war on us a week or so after Pearl Harbor. Had he not declared war, then I certainly do not think we should have involved ourselves in the European conflict. Ultimately, I think it was somewhat of a mistake to get involved. I don't believe the Europeans are worth the cost to us in lives and material.

Iraq didnt attack us.
This is true, and this is why we shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq.

Afghanistan didnt attack us.
Actually, they sort of did. Al-Queada and the Taliban (the government of Afghanistan at the time) were virtually indistinguishable. The Afghani government was complicit in the 9/11 attacks, so, yes they did attack us.

Vietnam or Korea didnt attack us.
And what exactly did we gain in either of those conflicts? Vietnam went communist anyway, and the best thing we accomplished in Korea was keeping the status-quo.

Germany didnt attack us.
The first go-around with Germany was an outright mistake. The second time, they declared war on us.

The only two nations that I can think of that has attacked the US on American soil have been Mexico and Britain.
Pearl Harbor, though a territory, was American soil in the same way that Guam and Puerto Rico are
American soil. France of course attacked American soil but that was prior to us actually being a nation. Canada in a roundabout way did the same but that was before they were a nation.

Yeah, because Russia was also a proud sponsor of terrorism that supplies and trains terrorist to bomb and kill innocent people in the middle east (mainly Israel). Gotcha!
They did sponsor terror...In fact, they're probably the biggest sponsor of terrorism of any nation in human history. They didn't specifically sponsor mid-east jihadists, but they were most certainly terror sponsors. Where the hell do you think all of those AKs, RPGs, and other Russian military hardware come from???

Yet again, you are completely incorrect. I think bombing should always be the last resort....but I guess you fail to answer or acknowledge that I think something stronger needs to happen at this point. You are the moron that read a lot more than was written.
I don't believe it was necessary to call me a moron. Everything else that can be done has been done. Sanctions don't work and neither has diplomacy. The rest of the world needs to either accept the fact that Iran is going to be a nuclear power, or conduct military operations to prevent it from happening. The issue is at a head.

landrun

2/16/2012, 10:05 PM

Have they attacked us yet? No? Then the answer is: nothing.

These sort of answers sound so level headed, moral and open minded -- unless you're one of the millions or hundred of thousands who's life is in serious danger of being eliminated.

If you were living in Tel-Aviv you wouldn't be so brave/moral. In fact, I'll say your opinion is a fake display of moral superiority and is frankly ... ignorant.

You are in essence saying when they kill me and my family, lay waste to our neighborhoods and level our cities - then I give you permission to retalliate against them.
That's really impressive except for one problem. You're safe in sound in Waco with no threat to your personal life. And you know it.

It is one of those positions that sounds good but is totally unworkable, impracticaly ... and nobody, ... NOBODY... really believes it.

I'll go even futher, your position is blantantly SICK, cruel and completely lacks any genuine human compassion. You are willing to let millions of people die for the sake of being able to say that you're more nobel and open minded then the rest of us. Your not. Its the exact opposite.

Human compassion DEMANDS that we not allow Iran to use nukes. Period. On anyone... even if it isn't our own families.

Now how you do that? I don't pretend to know. But this abusurd idea that you allow a snake bite you before you stop it is short sighted and very dangerous in a real world where real people will die.

yermom

2/16/2012, 10:08 PM

i'm not buying it.

how many people die in Africa all the time that we do absolutely nothing about?

why are the Jews so special? Jerusalem has changed hands a few times. who's to say it won't again?

Frozen Sooner

2/16/2012, 10:24 PM

Quick factoid: Pearl Harbor was not the only Japanese attack on U.S. soil. They also invaded and held Attu and Kiska Islands in the Aleutian Chain for a couple of days.

ouwasp

2/16/2012, 10:31 PM

I'm replying w/o reading all the previous responses, just to give my gut reaction...

Give the green light to Israel and step out of the way. The other Gulf states want it to happen but can't just come out and say it. Israel has "tolerated" Iran's proxy war via Hamas and other thugs for years... and also, for yrs, the Iranian prez has been publicly stating the Jewish nation should be burned from the Earth.

Now Iran may really be on the verge of aquiring nuclear weapons. And Israel is supposed to obediently copy the dubious 30-yr-old US policy of "Sit on hands. Now wring hands. Repeat." ?

I don't think so. Turn the Jews loose. Gasoline prices will cycle back down in due time.

That the MSM is downplaying this is puzzling. Now what's the latest on Whitney?

Now I'm gonna go back and read the other responses.

diverdog

2/16/2012, 10:42 PM

Ok, here we go.

NO, I didnt say that. But they are our allies. WE help THEM. WE PRO-TECT Them. They dont WANT war with Iran. But if IRAN wants some, they will get some.

So I assume you will volunteer to go fight on the front lines in the infantry or send your kids to fight?

TUSooner

2/16/2012, 10:42 PM

Hooray for war!!!

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7475/1933ducksoup.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1933ducksoup.jpg/)

First, let's overreact to everything they do; then we attack, throwing all the Iranian dissidents and opposition right into the camp of the mullahs; then later we can justify whatever we did. We're by-gawd America, so we can kill anybody we want!

EDIT: This is a rather lame attempt at satire and mockery of the extreme hawkish position that says we CAN do whatever we want because we are the top military power in the world and nobody can stop us.

EDIT 2: As Bismarck reportedly said: "Everybody knows where war starts, but nobody knows where it ends."

EDIT 3: We are not sitting on our hands.

diverdog

2/16/2012, 10:58 PM

These sort of answers sound so level headed, moral and open minded -- unless you're one of the millions or hundred of thousands who's life is in serious danger of being eliminated.If you were living in Tel-Aviv you wouldn't be so brave/moral. In fact, I'll say your opinion is a fake display of moral superiority and is frankly ... ignorant.You are in essence saying when they kill me and my family, lay waste to our neighborhoods and level our cities - then I give you permission to retalliate against them.That's really impressive except for one problem. You're safe in sound in Waco with no threat to your personal life. And you know it.It is one of those positions that sounds good but is totally unworkable, impracticaly ... and nobody, ... NOBODY... really believes it.I'll go even futher, your position is blantantly SICK, cruel and completely lacks any genuine human compassion. You are willing to let millions of people die for the sake of being able to say that you're more nobel and open minded then the rest of us. Your not. Its the exact opposite.Human compassion DEMANDS that we not allow Iran to use nukes. Period. On anyone... even if it isn't our own families.Now how you do that? I don't pretend to know. But this abusurd idea that you allow a snake bite you before you stop it is short sighted and very dangerous in a real world where real people will die.Iran is Iraq times 50. Tell me exactly how we go to war with them without bankrupting our treasury and losing thousands and thousands of soldiers? Oh I know.....air power....play it like a video game. After all that is how people think wars are fought.Let me lay it out this way. Israel does not have the capability to take out those facilities. They can do short term damage but no one and I mean no one believes that we can completely destroy the production facilities without a full scale invasion or the use of nuclear weapons. The nuclear facilities are dispersed, buried deep underground and protect by very sophisticated air defense systems. Even our 30,000-pound "bunker-buster" bomb, known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (GBU 57 A/B) cannot take out their bunkers.Finally, the old guard in Iran is dying. The younger people are pro western and they want to get out from under the shackles of the mullahs. Attacking Iran is the last thing we should do.

ouwasp

2/17/2012, 12:24 AM

TU- correct. US is currently in the "wring hands" mode. "Sit on Hands" is due to cycle around next November.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 01:14 AM

Iran is Iraq times 50. Tell me exactly how we go to war with them without bankrupting our treasury and losing thousands and thousands of soldiers? Oh I know.....air power....play it like a video game. After all that is how people think wars are fought.Let me lay it out this way. Israel does not have the capability to take out those facilities. They can do short term damage but no one and I mean no one believes that we can completely destroy the production facilities without a full scale invasion or the use of nuclear weapons. The nuclear facilities are dispersed, buried deep underground and protect by very sophisticated air defense systems. Even our 30,000-pound "bunker-buster" bomb, known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (GBU 57 A/B) cannot take out their bunkers.Finally, the old guard in Iran is dying. The younger people are pro western and they want to get out from under the shackles of the mullahs. Attacking Iran is the last thing we should do.

I believe Cheney's plan was to do it before we abandon all the **** we took overseas to free and rebuild Iraq. Unfortunately McCain didn't pick Dick to be his VP...he when with a vajayjay. :D

SicEmBaylor

2/17/2012, 02:35 AM

These sort of answers sound so level headed, moral and open minded -- unless you're one of the millions or hundred of thousands who's life is in serious danger of being eliminated.

If you were living in Tel-Aviv you wouldn't be so brave/moral. In fact, I'll say your opinion is a fake display of moral superiority and is frankly ... ignorant.

You are in essence saying when they kill me and my family, lay waste to our neighborhoods and level our cities - then I give you permission to retalliate against them.
That's really impressive except for one problem. You're safe in sound in Waco with no threat to your personal life. And you know it.

It is one of those positions that sounds good but is totally unworkable, impracticaly ... and nobody, ... NOBODY... really believes it.

I'll go even futher, your position is blantantly SICK, cruel and completely lacks any genuine human compassion. You are willing to let millions of people die for the sake of being able to say that you're more nobel and open minded then the rest of us. Your not. Its the exact opposite.

Human compassion DEMANDS that we not allow Iran to use nukes. Period. On anyone... even if it isn't our own families.

Now how you do that? I don't pretend to know. But this abusurd idea that you allow a snake bite you before you stop it is short sighted and very dangerous in a real world where real people will die.

Every word of this post is utterly ridiculous and contrary to most of what I've said. First, let's dispense with the notion that any of this is based on some sanctimonious sense of morality on my part -- it is not. It's a policy issue; it is not a morality issue.

If I were an Israeli citizen then of course my views would be totally different. In fact, they should be justifiably angry at the United States for hamstringing Israeli defense policy and making them fight with one arm tied behind their back. We do that in the interest of regional stability. Contrary to existing US policy, I think Israel should be unchanged and free to pursuit a policy that is in its best national interests. The difference is that the United States should neither help nor hamper any action on their part.

Let me suggest stepping down from that high horse you're on.

diverdog

2/17/2012, 05:47 AM

Every word of this post is utterly ridiculous and contrary to most of what I've said. First, let's dispense with the notion that any of this is based on some sanctimonious sense of morality on my part -- it is not. It's a policy issue; it is not a morality issue.

If I were an Israeli citizen then of course my views would be totally different. In fact, they should be justifiably angry at the United States for hamstringing Israeli defense policy and making them fight with one arm tied behind their back. We do that in the interest of regional stability. Contrary to existing US policy, I think Israel should be unchanged and free to pursuit a policy that is in its best national interests. The difference is that the United States should neither help nor hamper any action on their part.

Let me suggest stepping down from that high horse you're on.

Sic Em:

Good post with one exception.

Israel is not chained to us and they have proven that many times over. The problem that every one on this thread ignores is that Israel does not have the capability to take out these targets and they know it. It would take sustained heavy bombing campaigns using the most sophisticated heavy bombers in the US inventory to even have a remote shot of taking out the facilities and that may not work. And anyone who thinks Iran will not retaliate is a fool. We have failed to make most of Iraq stable and Afghanistan is still a mess. What leads anyone on this board to think that if we hit Iran we do not make the entire region so unstable as to make it even worse for Israel? Israel has a 100 plus nuclear weapons. Iran may hit them once (which I do not think they will) and Israel would turn Iran into a parking lot. It is called mutually assured destruction...MAD.

Israel’s former National Security Advisor has warned Tel Aviv that it lacks the military power to launch a successful attack against Iran.“To our regret, there is no Israeli military capability that would enable us to reach a situation whereby Iran’s nuclear capabilities are destroyed without the possibility of recovery,” Giora Eiland said during a Thursday conference at Tel Aviv University, Ynetnews reported.
Military strikes and aerial attacks cannot force Iran to surrender or give up its nuclear program, said Eiland, pointing out that Israel ‘cannot defeat Iran’.

SoonerPride

2/17/2012, 11:18 AM

We are not the policemen of the world.

We cannot afford to start yet another war.

Let Israel defend itself. They're big boys.

OU_Sooners75

2/17/2012, 03:40 PM

i'm not buying it.

how many people die in Africa all the time that we do absolutely nothing about?

why are the Jews so special? Jerusalem has changed hands a few times. who's to say it won't again?

We do nothing about?

Like how we help set up camps for refugees? How we side with one side or the other and supply them with arms and goods?

We may not be bombing African nations, but we are doing more than nothing.

OU_Sooners75

2/17/2012, 03:45 PM

We are not the policemen of the world.

We cannot afford to start yet another war.

Let Israel defend itself. They're big boys.

War is good for business though. :congratulatory:

SicEmBaylor

2/17/2012, 04:23 PM

Sic Em:

Good post with one exception.

Israel is not chained to us and they have proven that many times over. The problem that every one on this thread ignores is that Israel does not have the capability to take out these targets and they know it. It would take sustained heavy bombing campaigns using the most sophisticated heavy bombers in the US inventory to even have a remote shot of taking out the facilities and that may not work. And anyone who thinks Iran will not retaliate is a fool. We have failed to make most of Iraq stable and Afghanistan is still a mess. What leads anyone on this board to think that if we hit Iran we do not make the entire region so unstable as to make it even worse for Israel? Israel has a 100 plus nuclear weapons. Iran may hit them once (which I do not think they will) and Israel would turn Iran into a parking lot. It is called mutually assured destruction...MAD.

Well said. It wouldn't be so easy for us either. People seem to ignore the fact that we're not talking about an operation as simple as the Israel attack on Iraq's reactor. The job wouldn't be done with one night time raid. It would take the sustained bombing effort you speak of, but it would also be preceded by a massive aerial campaign to reduce Iran's ground anti-air sites and their air force...all of which are considerably more robust than Iraq's were.

And then there's no way we could really be sure we got them all without putting people on the ground. Attacking Iran would be a huge huge problem.

TheHumanAlphabet

2/17/2012, 05:26 PM

Nuke them till they glow and the land is glass. I am tired of this backwater of a nation taking up space and dictating to the world. They need their a$$ kicked now and hard.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 05:29 PM

We are not the policemen of the world.

We cannot afford to start yet another war.

Let Israel defend itself. They're big boys.

I'm not sure we can't afford to go to War but we might have to make some really rich folks even richer if we want another nice bunker busting campaign.

Thing is....why do it?

Why not let China and Russia know that we are fine with them building some nukes and that we will even sell them some delivery systems that will allow them to send payloads to places on that continent. Then maybe they won't be such dicks about it the next time we ask them for a few UN Sanctions.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 05:31 PM

Nuke them till they glow and the land is glass. I am tired of this backwater of a nation taking up space and dictating to the world. They need their a$$ kicked now and hard.

I agree with this but it seems like we and Israel again are the only ones that think there is a problem.

hawaii 5-0

2/17/2012, 05:52 PM

We shouldn't attack Iran until we've first attacked and defeated North Korea, Pakistan and China.

They are all threats to us.

Let's run up the tab !!!

5-0

TUSooner

2/17/2012, 05:53 PM

Nuke them till they glow and the land is glass. I am tired of this backwater of a nation taking up space and dictating to the world. They need their a$$ kicked now and hard.

Just when I thought nobody was really that stupid.... Here you come. Iran has millions of people - including many children - who are smarter, kinder, and a lot less "backwards" than you are. And, like you, they happen to have a government they don't like. But WTF, that's their problem, right? Pfft. You're a few letters shy of an alphabet.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 05:56 PM

Just when I thought nobody was really that stupid.... Here you come. Iran has millions of people - including many children - who are smarter, kinder, and a lot less "backwards" than you are. And, like you, they happen to have a government they don't like. But WTF, that's their problem, right? Pfft. You're a few letters shy of an alphabet.

So you are against Mass Genocide.

Remind me to have a drink with you sometime. I think you are onto something. :D

hawaii 5-0

2/17/2012, 05:57 PM

Couldn't we just invite Iran over to the house for a friendly game of Spin the Pickel?

5-0

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 06:01 PM

Couldn't we just invite Iran over to the house for a friendly game of Spin the Pickel?

5-0

Oh hell yeah!

http://www.funraniumlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Yodelling-Pickel-300x300.jpg

SicEmBaylor

2/17/2012, 06:11 PM

Nuke them till they glow and the land is glass. I am tired of this backwater of a nation taking up space and dictating to the world. They need their a$$ kicked now and hard.
What are they dictating to the rest of us? Aside from Ahmadinejad, who doesn't have all that much power, making bombastic (no pun intended) statements about Israel, the only thing Iran has done is stand by their right as a nation to develop nuclear technology.

We have so much more power than Iran that it's almost incalculable. They are not and cannot dictate a damned thing to us. For the love of God, we have more power than any nation from the dawn of civilization until now........combined. We don't have a damned thing to fear from Iran. This is hyperbole rhetoric and nonsense.

Why not let China and Russia know that we are fine with them building some nukes and that we will even sell them some delivery systems that will allow them to send payloads to places on that continent. Then maybe they won't be such dicks about it the next time we ask them for a few UN Sanctions.

They can already reach parts of Russia with existing AGM's...I think. In any case, a delivery system that could reach Russia and China would be far far easier than one that could hit North America. I think the Iranians already possess that much.

Why is everyone so convinced that as soon as Iran gets a nuke they're going to start lobbing them at anyone and everyone? That's absolutely insane. The Iranians are crazy but they're not certifiable lunatics.

ouwasp

2/17/2012, 07:04 PM

I don't believe anything those Iranians (or most any mooslem) say unless it can be verified. But maybe, just maybe, this latest strategy of cutting Iran out of the Swift Bank in Belgium might be bearing some fruit... so question #1 if it's for real is why the devil wasn't this done yrs ago?

Or they may just be playing us like rubes, stalling for time like NK did.

Whatever the case is, it will be a good day when those cocky ______ get cut down to size. They humiliated the US for 444 days back in 79-80. Carter's pu$$y response gave Radical Islam a shot in the arm... yada,yada..

But the ones under the gun are the Israelis. Still say give them the green light, sat intell, etc. If they wanna trust the Iranians to actually behave...well, that's their business.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 07:27 PM

Why is everyone so convinced that as soon as Iran gets a nuke they're going to start lobbing them at anyone and everyone? That's absolutely insane. The Iranians are crazy but they're not certifiable lunatics.

Ummmm....because "W" convinced us that even if Iraq was hiding WMDs....we should start a 10 year War with them and get rid of Saddam Hussein?

Tulsa_Fireman

2/17/2012, 07:35 PM

What are they dictating to the rest of us? Aside from Ahmadinejad, who doesn't have all that much power, making bombastic (no pun intended) statements about Israel, the only thing Iran has done is stand by their right as a nation to develop nuclear technology.

We have so much more power than Iran that it's almost incalculable. They are not and cannot dictate a damned thing to us. For the love of God, we have more power than any nation from the dawn of civilization until now........combined. We don't have a damned thing to fear from Iran. This is hyperbole rhetoric and nonsense.

They can already reach parts of Russia with existing AGM's...I think. In any case, a delivery system that could reach Russia and China would be far far easier than one that could hit North America. I think the Iranians already possess that much.

Why is everyone so convinced that as soon as Iran gets a nuke they're going to start lobbing them at anyone and everyone? That's absolutely insane. The Iranians are crazy but they're not certifiable lunatics.

Your isolationism is sticking out. Zip it up before you get caught.

The russians and Iran are in bed. As long as Iran is a thorn up our butt, the russians are happy. The chinese are happy. As long as the middle east is an actual or potential front, russians and chinese are happy. They've been playing the other side of the fence pre AND post-cold war and they'll continue to do so as long as it's a drain on our time and resources. And we DO have a considerable interest, especially considering missile technology funneling in from Russia and China is dragging Europe into the field.

Hence the eastern european missile defense shield.

Hence Russia's vehement opposition.

It's simply another front in a war that never stopped, no matter how "cold" it once was.

StoopTroup

2/17/2012, 07:57 PM

But the ones under the gun are the Israelis. Still say give them the green light, sat intell, etc. If they wanna trust the Iranians to actually behave...well, that's their business.

I don't disagree with you about letting the Israelis gear up and start expanding and taking whatever land they want. We all have warned the Muslims that Israel is Sacred Holy Land and that we would stand by Israel until the end of time. It's time we quit being nice about it. Nice allowed tons of terrorists to walk into Israel and pull the plug on many innocent Humans.

They tried to do the same to us on 9-11-01.

There is little to stop us and Israel from just moving toward protecting the Holy Land and kicking the Muslims the hell out.

We have allowed many Americans to practice the Muslim Faith peacefully in America. They can start doing the same thing in Israel or they can all face a War that is for all the marbles. It's a Prophecy that has been written for Centuries. Truly if the Blue Turbaned One is ready to appear and take us on....it is maybe time for us to decide just how we all wish to live on this Earth. Do you want to live in fear of War and Terror for ever or decide to live in Peace like our Lord has asked us to do?

I like Peace. Even though many non-religious folks think stuff like this is bat **** crazy.....they should remember that most folks trained in War understand what we have built up our Military for. Defense. We have always been prepared to defend our way of life. We have always been prepared to allow time and discussion to take place in order to keep a Holy War like no one has ever seen from happening.....but we are not afraid to defend Christianity no matter what Atheists and their ilk might think.

Every time some leader has thought that America didn't have the Stomach to bury many of our own....we have built another War Memorial in Honor of the losses we incurred. We have a much stronger stomach than most people on Earth and have even nearly fought half of our own Countrymen to the Death over differences of opinion.

Israel is right to be worried about people who call for their destruction on a daily basis. Hitler's Germany showed us of just how evil people can become and we should maybe remind Iran that they remind us of that regime and just how it turned out for them.

Maybe we should drop 100 Million copies of "Inglorious Bastards" in an airlift over their Country. We don't make movies about carving the Star of David on folks foreheads.

http://www.promotionalitemsbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Inglorious-Bastards.jpg

This actually looks more painful that a swastika....:D

http://coolsymbols.org/images/stories/country/500px-Coat_of_arms_of_Iran.svg.png

oudavid1

2/18/2012, 12:57 PM

So I assume you will volunteer to go fight on the front lines in the infantry or send your kids to fight?

You're right, Obama and his girls should have gone to Iraq. This logic dosnt work.

diverdog

2/18/2012, 04:53 PM

You're right, Obama and his girls should have gone to Iraq. This logic dosnt work.

Fine with me if they go. How about answering the question?

SicEmBaylor

2/18/2012, 07:31 PM

I don't know about the girls, but their mother would fit right in with the army's Amazon Brigade.

StoopTroup

2/18/2012, 07:39 PM

I don't think it's legal to send your kids to fight.

SicEmBaylor

2/18/2012, 08:24 PM

I don't think it's legal to send your kids to fight.

It ought to be. Children have been given a pass from serving their country for far far too long.

diverdog

2/19/2012, 12:42 AM

It ought to be. Children have been given a pass from serving their country for far far too long.

Including you?

SicEmBaylor

2/19/2012, 01:05 AM

Including you?
I'm too pretty.

diverdog

2/19/2012, 07:15 AM

I'm too pretty.

:congratulatory:

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/19/2012, 07:46 AM

Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon

TEHRAN—Amidst mounting geopolitical tensions, Iranian officials said Wednesday they were increasingly concerned about the United States of America's uranium-enrichment program, fearing the Western nation may soon be capable of producing its 8,500th nuclear weapon. "Our intelligence estimates indicate that, if it is allowed to progress with its aggressive nuclear program, the United States may soon possess its 8,500th atomic weapon capable of reaching Iran," said Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi, adding that Americans have the fuel, the facilities, and "everything they need" to manufacture even more weapons-grade fissile material. "Obviously, the prospect of this happening is very distressing to Iran and all countries like Iran. After all, the United States is a volatile nation that's proven it needs little provocation to attack anyone anywhere in the world whom it perceives to be a threat." Iranian intelligence experts also warned of the very real, and very frightening, possibility of the U.S. providing weapons and resources to a rogue third-party state such as Israel.

pphilfran

2/19/2012, 07:55 AM

JohnnyMack

2/19/2012, 08:30 AM

I say we mass our troops, create a blockade preventing them from trading, lie to the Senate about our true intentions and then send in our soldiers and force their queen to sign our treaty.

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/19/2012, 09:53 AM

Whatever the case is, it will be a good day when those cocky ______ get cut down to size. They humiliated the US for 444 days back in 79-80. Carter's pu$$y response gave Radical Islam a shot in the arm... yada,yada..

But the ones under the gun are the Israelis. Still say give them the green light, sat intell, etc. If they wanna trust the Iranians to actually behave...well, that's their business.
Quid pro quo, you would have done the same thing in 1979 if Iran had coup'd the US gov't 20 years earlier.

Israel has around 250 warheads, Iran...maybe a couple. Its barely even MAD level, more just like AD for Iran if they do anything funny. We need not be in involved.

okie52

2/19/2012, 11:20 AM

I hate to say it by I side with Iran when it comes to nukes....we can build an unlimited supply of bombs and reactors and enrichment programs but we won't allow (or attempt) to keep others from doing the exact same thing...

If we don't want them to have em we should get rid of each and everyone of ours...

I don't know why the US or any other "have" countries feel others aren't entitled to the same status.

Turd_Ferguson

2/19/2012, 12:28 PM

I don't know why the US or any other "have" countries feel others aren't entitled to the same status.Self preservation?

LiveLaughLove

2/19/2012, 12:56 PM

The problem with Iran having nukes isn't because they might "shoot" them. It's because they will walk them across our open borders and detonate them. They will claim no knowledge and say it was a rogue element that did it.

It is also completely possible that they are completely insane and would launch against Israel and the US and not care a whit about the retaliation.

“We are of the opinion that Iran is a rational actor,” Dempsey said. “We also know, or we believe we know, that the Iranian regime has not decided” to make a nuclear weapon, he said. Iran says its enrichment of uranium is for making power while Israel says it’s aimed at making weapons.

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=258378

This is complete and utter lunacy. Dempsey was hand picked by Obama. He is a left wing loon, just like his picker, and dangerous for America's safety.

Here is the mind set we are up against:

http://youtu.be/3gHXCQl_Q2Q

And here is an Iranian that blew his own legs off. The Iranian regime said the bombings were by Israel blowing their own people and buildings up to blame Iran. Yeah, they are acting rationally Dempsey. Right.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=354_1329223404

We won't. But we should back Israel's play on this, whatever it ends up being short of nuclear war in the region. I don't like it, but there it is.

okie52

2/19/2012, 12:58 PM

Self preservation?

Hah, I would assume the have nots might feel the same way.

Turd_Ferguson

2/19/2012, 01:02 PM

Hah, I would assume the have nots might feel the same way.Surely you don't believe that...and no, I'm not calling you Surely.

olevetonahill

2/19/2012, 01:14 PM

I don't know why the US or any other "have" countries feel others aren't entitled to the same status.

Hah, I would assume the have nots might feel the same way.

Please tell me yer just joking?

okie52

2/19/2012, 01:26 PM

Surely you don't believe that...and no, I'm not calling you Surely.

Don't believe what? That every country should feel entitled to possess their own nuclear weapons?

Sure I understand that feeling. What entitles the US to possess nuclear weapons and say another country isn't entitled to them?

okie52

2/19/2012, 01:27 PM

Please tell me yer just joking?

Not at all. Aren't you?

pphilfran

2/19/2012, 01:41 PM

Don't believe what? That every country should feel entitled to possess their own nuclear weapons?

Sure I understand that feeling. What entitles the US to possess nuclear weapons and say another country isn't entitled to them?

Because

Turd_Ferguson

2/19/2012, 01:55 PM

BecauseCare to expound, or just being a smart ***?

oudavid1

2/19/2012, 03:23 PM

Fine with me if they go. How about answering the question?

The question isnt relevant. You're trying to use emotion and not logic. This country's survival is more important than any one man including myself. We have built a country/society on taking care of others while still allowing more freedom. Israel is our brother. They would protect us, we must protect them if they need us.

SoonerPride

2/19/2012, 03:48 PM

Israel would protect us?

When?

How about never.

I'm tired of defending the world. They can defend themselves.

SicEmBaylor

2/19/2012, 03:51 PM

The question isnt relevant. You're trying to use emotion and not logic. This country's survival is more important than any one man including myself. We have built a country/society on taking care of others while still allowing more freedom. Israel is our brother. They would protect us, we must protect them if they need us.

Israel would protect us???? From what???? And you honestly believe that our nation's survival is threatened by Iran? The Republic's (and I use that term only in its most theoretical sense) bigest enemies and threats come from within. We can and are doing more damage to this country than any other nation would dare try on their own.

Turd_Ferguson

2/19/2012, 03:56 PM

Right, so let me ask you geniouses this...IF, Iran was to light off a NM to someplace like...oh let's say Israel. Should we do anything about it?

soonercruiser

2/19/2012, 04:50 PM

Self preservation?

This is a rather "shallow" argument.

Of all the countries currently with nuclear weapons, have any of them been bragging that they will liquify another country?
NO! Iran says it virtually every week!

okie52

2/19/2012, 04:51 PM

Hopefully nothing beyond providing them with some intelligence and selling them missile defence systems.

What would you have us do?

diverdog

2/19/2012, 04:51 PM

diverdog

2/19/2012, 04:58 PM

The problem with Iran having nukes isn't because they might "shoot" them. It's because they will walk them across our open borders and detonate them. They will claim no knowledge and say it was a rogue element that did it.

It is also completely possible that they are completely insane and would launch against Israel and the US and not care a whit about the retaliation.

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=258378

This is complete and utter lunacy. Dempsey was hand picked by Obama. He is a left wing loon, just like his picker, and dangerous for America's safety.

Here is the mind set we are up against:

http://youtu.be/3gHXCQl_Q2Q

And here is an Iranian that blew his own legs off. The Iranian regime said the bombings were by Israel blowing their own people and buildings up to blame Iran. Yeah, they are acting rationally Dempsey. Right.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=354_1329223404

We won't. But we should back Israel's play on this, whatever it ends up being short of nuclear war in the region. I don't like it, but there it is.

Again I will ask you the same question I asked dave. Are you willing to go to Iran and fight? Would you send your kids? When will You enlist?

The rest of you post is pure speculation. How long have you righties been screaming about backpack nukes?

LiveLaughLove

2/19/2012, 05:41 PM

Again I will ask you the same question I asked dave. Are you willing to go to Iran and fight? Would you send your kids? When will You enlist?

The rest of you post is pure speculation. How long have you righties been screaming about backpack nukes?

I did my time in the Army. I have 2 sons that went to Iraq. One was a combat medic that saw a bunch of action. I have another son that just got out of the Navy. I still have 2 more sons that are younger but thinking about joining. I am all for it, if that is what they want to do.

You're barking up the wrong tree with me friend. Go sell the chicken hawk crap to someone else as a way to obfuscate.

What do we do if they attack? Nothing? Do you think Iran is acting "rationally" like our commander in chief does? You're a dingbat if you do.

I love the bumper stickers that say "Coexist" with all of the cute religious symbols. It makes the owner feel smarmy and superior, but they would still get beheaded if most of Iran's leadership had it's way.

If they attack Israel, do we just sit back and let our only ally and only true Republic in the region burn? That would be folly beyond comprehension.

Yes, I would go if I were of the age to still go, and yes I would send my sons, because we have to draw a line against people like that woman in the video that smiles with glee at killing Israeli children. Evil has to be stopped, it can't be reasoned with. Next stupid question?

SicEmBaylor

2/19/2012, 05:48 PM

I love the bumper stickers that say "Coexist" with all of the cute religious symbols. It makes the owner feel smarmy and superior, but they would still get beheaded if most of Iran's leadership had it's way.

Iran is going to invade America and behead people with "Coexist" bumper stickers??

If they attack Israel, do we just sit back and let our only ally and only true Republic in the region burn? That would be folly beyond comprehension.
This is the same ally that routinely gets caught conducting espionage against, us, their closest ally? Strictly speaking, Iran is a republic.

Yes, I would go if I were of the age to still go, and yes I would send my sons, because we have to draw a line against people like that woman in the video that smiles with glee at killing Israeli children. Evil has to be stopped, it can't be reasoned with. Next stupid question?

So, the foreign policy of these United States should be the elimination of evil no matter where it exists? In so doing, we'd become the very thing we are trying to eradicate.

LiveLaughLove

2/19/2012, 06:20 PM

Iran is going to invade America and behead people with "Coexist" bumper stickers??

You know I didn't say that. I said they "would" if they could. They don't have to invade us to do a lot of damage to us, just ask the poor souls in the Trade Towers.

This is the same ally that routinely gets caught conducting espionage against, us, their closest ally?

Everyone tries to spy on us. We have the latest and greatest of everything. I don't fault them for what Russia and China do. The difference is they aren't trying to hurt us, unlike those other countries.

Strictly speaking, Iran is a republic.

Strictly speaking you are full of crap if you really believe that one. You know the elections there are foregone conclusions, and no one serves without the approval of the ayatollahs.

So, the foreign policy of these United States should be the elimination of evil no matter where it exists?

Once more, I didn't say that. I said we have to draw a line against this Islamic evil though. They will not stop and they have something communists never had. Zealotry. You don't have to agree, and obviously you don't. It's ok. It just makes you more of a fool than even voting for Ron Paul makes you.

In so doing, we'd become the very thing we are trying to eradicate.

Wow that's so profound. I'll bet girls find you to be almost like a beat poet coming up with stuff as good as this. Or maybe you're just a stupid kid that doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, but can pontificate about the geopolitical ramifications of water desalinization for the lower sub-Saharan tribes of Watusi's because you discussed it once in a class, so you think you're actually educated about it.

Adults have tough choices to make (not that you would understand that). They don't get to deal in the theories of Iran's provocations. They have to deal with the reality that Iran will do something to either Israel or us if they can. So we either sit back and let them (which is what Paul and Obama would do), or we meet it head on (like most adults that actually want to protect America would do). The question then is how.

Isolationism has never worked. It won't work now.

oudavid1

2/19/2012, 06:32 PM

Nice dodge. Classic chickenhawk. Root for war, watch other kids die and bitch when your taxes go up. Nice!

You just made a bunch of stuff up and I am supposed to take you seriously?

I do not root for war. I do not watch other kids die. And I do not have a problem with my(parents) tax rate.

Please dont get emotional and then put my name on it. Very unbecoming.

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/19/2012, 06:32 PM

The question isnt relevant. You're trying to use emotion and not logic. This country's survival is more important than any one man including myself. We have built a country/society on taking care of others while still allowing more freedom. Israel is our brother. They would protect us, we must protect them if they need us.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--rMwkS5VYxw/TmGTaou_9xI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/DkdLZs8Fquc/s1600/liberty-rescue.png

Those selfish ****s would, and have, stabbed us in the back whenever we become "inconvenient" to their immediate interest.

SicEmBaylor

2/19/2012, 07:09 PM

You know I didn't say that. I said they "would" if they could. They don't have to invade us to do a lot of damage to us, just ask the poor souls in the Trade Towers.
9/11 was neither conducted nor planned by Iran or any other nation-state for that matter. I'm not a fan of Minority Report writ-large.

Everyone tries to spy on us. We have the latest and greatest of everything.
Most of which we already sell, trade, and give to them. Which also begs the question why we have to subsidize their defense and why they are incapable of defending themselves.

I don't fault them for what Russia and China do. The difference is they aren't trying to hurt us, unlike those other countries.
Ohhhh okay so espionage is perfectly fine as long as you're only spying on friends. Here's a crazy idea....I think it's actually more understandable when an enemy engages in espionage than when it's one of your two closest "allies." The Israelis should have been warned once and once caught again they should have had all of their foreign and military aid immediately cut.

Strictly speaking you are full of crap if you really believe that one. You know the elections there are foregone conclusions, and no one serves without the approval of the ayatollahs.
I think you're confusing democracy with a republic. This is understandable since the overwhelming majority of Americans can't tell the difference either.

Once more, I didn't say that. I said we have to draw a line against this Islamic evil though. They will not stop and they have something communists never had. Zealotry.
The communists weren't zealots????? You kidding me? Wow. Communism is the most dangerous and most evil force on Earth. Islam cannot and does not compare to the threat of communism.

You don't have to agree, and obviously you don't. It's ok. It just makes you more of a fool than even voting for Ron Paul makes you.
That's cool, dude. It's like your opinion man.

Wow that's so profound. I'll bet girls find you to be almost like a beat poet coming up with stuff as good as this.
Well, I try. My material is offered free of charge as open-source materia avaliable via download on Pirate Bay. Donations are both accepted and encouraged.

Or maybe you're just a stupid kid that doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, but can pontificate about the geopolitical ramifications of water desalinization for the lower sub-Saharan tribes of Watusi's because you discussed it once in a class, so you think you're actually educated about it.
Could be...could be. You've convinced me that geopolitical issues are best left to those who have never stepped foot in an educational environment. Henceforth, I will defer such matters to the ignorant and to your vast knowledge and wealth of experience in international relations that are best summed up with empty platitude that fail to rise above "us v. them."

Adults have tough choices to make (not that you would understand that). They don't get to deal in the theories of Iran's provocations. They have to deal with the reality that Iran will do something to either Israel or us if they can. So we either sit back and let them (which is what Paul and Obama would do), or we meet it head on (like most adults that actually want to protect America would do). The question then is how.
I felt I might have been judging you too harsh by intimating that you barely have an 8th grade understanding of the issues, but then you go and suggest that Ron Paul and Obama have a comparable foreign policy and I realize that I hit my mark right and true.

Isolationism has never worked. It won't work now.
Well, I could explain the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism but then we have to deal with that whole "8th grade understanding" thing. Probably not worth my time....I'll just let you go back to listening to your Mark Levin on the drive home and deluding yourself into thinking you're some kind of expert.

A good day to you, sir. Good day.

soonercruiser

2/19/2012, 10:25 PM

So, the foreign policy of these United States should be the elimination of evil no matter where it exists? In so doing, we'd become the very thing we are trying to eradicate.

But....but....then we'd have to eliminate ourselves, according to BHO....we are evil, and after all, have caused all these ME nations to hate us.

StoopTroup

2/19/2012, 11:42 PM

I hate to say it by I side with Iran when it comes to nukes....we can build an unlimited supply of bombs and reactors and enrichment programs but we won't allow (or attempt) to keep others from doing the exact same thing...

If we don't want them to have em we should get rid of each and everyone of ours...

I think it's this idea that they will use them on Israel once they get them.

I think once they blow a huge hole in the earth where Tel Aviv, Bethlehem and Jerusalem used to be....you might have a few things cleared up as to why we are trying to keep them from having them.

StoopTroup

2/19/2012, 11:47 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--rMwkS5VYxw/TmGTaou_9xI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/DkdLZs8Fquc/s1600/liberty-rescue.png

Those selfish ****s would, and have, stabbed us in the back whenever we become "inconvenient" to their immediate interest.

Not all of them. A bunch of them saw the err of their ways and followed Jesus. It's why you won't see to many Catholics with your attitude.

Turd_Ferguson

2/20/2012, 12:10 AM

9/11 was neither conducted nor planned by Iran or any other nation-state for that matter. I'm not a fan of Minority Report writ-large.

Most of which we already sell, trade, and give to them. Which also begs the question why we have to subsidize their defense and why they are incapable of defending themselves.

Ohhhh okay so espionage is perfectly fine as long as you're only spying on friends. Here's a crazy idea....I think it's actually more understandable when an enemy engages in espionage than when it's one of your two closest "allies." The Israelis should have been warned once and once caught again they should have had all of their foreign and military aid immediately cut.

I think you're confusing democracy with a republic. This is understandable since the overwhelming majority of Americans can't tell the difference either.

The communists weren't zealots????? You kidding me? Wow. Communism is the most dangerous and most evil force on Earth. Islam cannot and does not compare to the threat of communism.

That's cool, dude. It's like your opinion man.

Well, I try. My material is offered free of charge as open-source materia avaliable via download on Pirate Bay. Donations are both accepted and encouraged.

Could be...could be. You've convinced me that geopolitical issues are best left to those who have never stepped foot in an educational environment. Henceforth, I will defer such matters to the ignorant and to your vast knowledge and wealth of experience in international relations that are best summed up with empty platitude that fail to rise above "us v. them."

I felt I might have been judging you too harsh by intimating that you barely have an 8th grade understanding of the issues, but then you go and suggest that Ron Paul and Obama have a comparable foreign policy and I realize that I hit my mark right and true.

Well, I could explain the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism but then we have to deal with that whole "8th grade understanding" thing. Probably not worth my time....I'll just let you go back to listening to your Mark Levin on the drive home and deluding yourself into thinking you're some kind of expert.

A good day to you, sir. Good day.Sicem. You don't know **** about ****. Your wet behind the ears. Grow a pair of balls and go **** some girl/guy and get back to us. In the mean time, quit acting like your Ron Paul's Sr. advisor. You suck at it.

SicEmBaylor

2/20/2012, 01:36 AM

Sicem. You don't know **** about ****. Your wet behind the ears. Grow a pair of balls and go **** some girl/guy and get back to us. In the mean time, quit acting like your Ron Paul's Sr. advisor. You suck at it.
:sigh:

My opinions are my own. The fact that they fall pretty well in-line with his is the reason I support the guy. The nice thing about Paul is that I don't have to look up or research his opinion on an issue. I understand his philosophy and, understanding that, I can just plugin what his likely position will be on a specific issue.

People need to calm down about Iran. Most of the consternation over Iran is a direct result of Ahmadinejad's bombastic (pun intended) remarks over the years. The fact that Ahmadinejad barely has any real power and that the real power brokers in Iran consider him to be a dangerous nuisance is a fact that the west seems to ignore.

The more we position ourselves in a hostile fashion the easier it is for the radicals to consolidate their power and oppress moderate and the youth that all clamor for reform. Sometimes the smart and mature thing to do is to back off and decrease the pressure rather than push things to a boiling point.

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/20/2012, 05:25 AM

I think it's this idea that they will use them on Israel once they get them.

I think once they blow a huge hole in the earth where Tel Aviv, Bethlehem and Jerusalem used to be....you might have a few things cleared up as to why we are trying to keep them from having them.
Iran planning to nuke Jerusalem, one of Islam's holiest cities? Attacks on Tel Aviv and Bethlehem would kill tens of thousands of Muslims, as well as spreading fallout across Jordan/Syria/PLA. Not to mention as soon as Iran puts 1 in the air, Israel puts 10. You really are dumb as a rock if you think Iran is going to start lobbing nukes, an event that would lead to the complete destruction of their culture.

diverdog

2/20/2012, 09:14 AM

Iran planning to nuke Jerusalem, one of Islam's holiest cities? Attacks on Tel Aviv and Bethlehem would kill tens of thousands of Muslims, as well as spreading fallout across Jordan/Syria/PLA. Not to mention as soon as Iran puts 1 in the air, Israel puts 10. You really are dumb as a rock if you think Iran is going to start lobbing nukes, an event that would lead to the complete destruction of their culture.

+1

Iran will not be nuking Israel. If they do the entire world would mass against them including Israels enemies because they will be afraid that they are next.

cleller

2/20/2012, 09:18 AM

I think its possible Iran is pushing so many buttons right now because the whackos in power know their time is limited. Every assessment I've read has said that younger Iranians very much want western inclusion, and don't really believe their leaders.

The leaders may sense this, and are pushing as hard as they can to get their insane agenda pushed thru before they are overthrown. Look at Syria and all the others nearby. Things are going wild in that part of the world.

cleller

2/20/2012, 09:20 AM

+1

Iran will not be nuking Israel. If they do the entire world would mass against them including Israels enemies because they will be afraid that they are next.

The Israeli Air Force would be far less gentle on Iran than ours was on Iraq.

diverdog

2/20/2012, 10:34 AM

The Israeli Air Force would be far less gentle on Iran than ours was on Iraq.

The problem that Israel has is that it cannot carry out heavy bombing missions.

I think some other options that could work is to take out launch sites and missile production facilities.

My guess is that both Israel and the US are working to take out missiles in the boost phase.

ouwasp

2/20/2012, 11:20 AM

JohnnyMack

2/20/2012, 11:29 AM

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 11:35 AM

One thing that I don't believe anyone has mentioned yet is the Islamic belief in the 12th Imam. The Shiite sect believes this Islamic messiah enters the world stage amidst terrible worldwide chaos.

So, the Iranian president may believe he is helping usher in a New age of Islam by provoking a nuclear war with Israel. Not rational from our point of view... but this explains why he would be willing to put Iran at risk; the belief that it will lead to a greater good for Allah...

Meh.. a few nutty jihadists ain't much to worry about in the grand scheme of things. Talk show personalities and politicians who want to gin up business for the likes of Boeing, Northrop-Grumman, Halliburton, etc., and are willing to lie and send young men and women to die in order to do so are some folks you ought to be focusing your attention on. Those nutty clerics over in the ME would have the power to close the strait of Hormuz once, and for a brief period of time. Our politicians are more and more a real threat to our future financial stability as a country and our soldiers' lives every single day with this jingoistic chorus attempting to persuade the public that we need to fund further military expeditions in the ME.

ouwasp

2/20/2012, 11:46 AM

Midtowner, I'm just saying that's what Ahmadinejad is pumping... <shrug> what you think of the Military-Industrial Complex is one thing... what Israel thinks is a concern involving their national survival is another.

The US is not going to hit Iran. But Israel just might.

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 11:57 AM

The US is not going to hit Iran. But Israel just might.

And if Israel wants to go to war, let it be their problem. We'll sell 'em weapons. That should be good enough.

SoonerPride

2/20/2012, 12:01 PM

And if Israel wants to go to war, let it be their problem. We'll sell 'em weapons. That should be good enough.

I agree.

But you and I know it won't be.

We'll get dragged into another freaking quagmire.

ouwasp

2/20/2012, 12:11 PM

And if Israel wants to go to war, let it be their problem. We'll sell 'em weapons. That should be good enough.

Sounds good to me. I don't blame Israel for wanting to prevent another Holocaust.

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 12:11 PM

I agree.

But you and I know it won't be.

We'll get dragged into another freaking quagmire.

Vote Ron Paul.

pphilfran

2/20/2012, 12:12 PM

If the chit hits the fan where do you think gas prices will be after a week?

$5
$6?

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 12:13 PM

Sounds good to me. I don't blame Israel for wanting to prevent another Holocaust.

They're reaping what they've sewn. They moved into the region, took things over under the color of international law. They then fought a couple wars with all of the countries around them, then proceeded to marginalize the majority of the people within the boundaries of their country. That's a formula which is pretty much guaranteed to blow up in their faces at some point.

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 12:14 PM

If the chit hits the fan where do you think gas prices will be after a week?

$5
$6?

Buy O&G stocks in companies which focus on domestic production and that should more than offset your losses.

pphilfran

2/20/2012, 12:15 PM

Buy O&G stocks in companies which focus on domestic production and that should more than offset your losses.

Very true...and I do...

pphilfran

2/20/2012, 12:16 PM

TUSooner

2/20/2012, 12:16 PM

Right, so let me ask you geniouses this...IF, Iran was to light off a NM to someplace like...oh let's say Israel. Should we do anything about it?

THEN the "nuke em to glass" theory might merit some consideration.

olevetonahill

2/20/2012, 12:18 PM

SoonerPride

2/20/2012, 12:31 PM

You are an intelligent guy , But in this you are wrong my friend

In what way is his summation of Israeli behavior wrong?

After the horror of WWII, the international community established the country by pushing people off their land and saying "this is how it is now, the Jewish people were so wronged by Hitler, this is the world saying we're sorry."

They then fought a couple of very short wars.

Then Israel has done everything in their power to squash the Palestinians.

I thought Midtowner pretty much nailed it.

olevetonahill

2/20/2012, 12:41 PM

In what way is his summation of Israeli behavior wrong?

After the horror of WWII, the international community established the country by pushing people off their land and saying "this is how it is now, the Jewish people were so wronged by Hitler, this is the world saying we're sorry."

They then fought a couple of very short wars.

Then Israel has done everything in their power to squash the Palestinians.

I thought Midtowner pretty much nailed it.

And you would,

ouwasp

2/20/2012, 12:42 PM

They're reaping what they've sewn. They moved into the region, took things over under the color of international law. They then fought a couple wars with all of the countries around them, then proceeded to marginalize the majority of the people within the boundaries of their country. That's a formula which is pretty much guaranteed to blow up in their faces at some point.

Did they not have UN permission to settle in Palestine? A very fair partition plan was set up and the Arabs rejected it and went war. Which they lost. Israel fought wars of survival in '48, '56, '67, and '73. If they lose any of those wars they cease to exist. Period. Arab-Israeli citizens to have the right to vote. But this line of argument if almost off topic. How does any of the above translate into Iran threatening to incinerate the Jewish nation?

The Israelis have been more than restrained when responding to the daily attacks by Iran proxies Hamas and Hezbollah. Now their chief antagonist has been beating the drum of nuclear war for some time. To me, the big question is: Why has Israel not hit yet?

SoonerPride

2/20/2012, 12:51 PM

And you would,

Well, please, I'm trying to have a civil dialogue.

Explain why you think it is wrong.

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/20/2012, 01:07 PM

The Israelis have been more than restrained when responding to the daily attacks by Iran proxies Hamas and Hezbollah. Now their chief antagonist has been beating the drum of nuclear war for some time. To me, the big question is: Why has Israel not hit yet?
I think the reason Israel has not yet struck is because A. Their Stuxnet worm did significant damage in 2010 and B. the sites are well defended (deep underground, probably SAMs or whatever the Iranian/Chinese/Russia equivalent) and highly decentralized. There isn't one, two or even just three sites Israel could hit that would totally destroy the program, its an entire network. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

SoonerPride

2/20/2012, 01:12 PM

I think the reason Israel has not yet struck is because A. Their Stuxnet worm did significant damage in 2010 and B. the sites are well defended (deep underground, probably SAMs or whatever the Iranian/Chinese/Russia equivalent) and highly decentralized. There isn't one, two or even just three sites Israel could hit that would totally destroy the program, its an entire network. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

You are right.

And Israel cannot stop Iran anyway.

Israel understands Iran has been preparing for an attack for years – widely dispersing its atomic weapons program in deeply bunkered facilities. It accepts that a strike may only set back Iran’s weapons program a couple years, but Israeli leaders believe a nuclear armed Iran is unacceptable and delaying that threat worth the costs.

This view was expressed last week in Jerusalem by Maj. Gen Amir Eshel, chief of the army’s planning division, according to The New York Times. He asked, “Who would have dared deal with Gadaffi or Saddam Hussein if they had a nuclear capability? No way.” Then he cited a conversation with an Indian officer about that country’s response to the 2008 Pakistani terrorist attacks in Mumbai. “When the other side [Pakistan] has a nuclear capability and is prepared to use it, you think twice,” the officer replied.

The U.S. will swerve first in the atomic game of chicken with Iran. But Israel, the wild card, has weighed the consequences and appears ready to attack understanding it can only delay the inevitable: Iran will join the exclusive atomic weapons club.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49232

Midtowner

2/20/2012, 01:52 PM

Did they not have UN permission to settle in Palestine? A very fair partition plan was set up and the Arabs rejected it and went war. Which they lost. Israel fought wars of survival in '48, '56, '67, and '73. If they lose any of those wars they cease to exist. Period. Arab-Israeli citizens to have the right to vote. But this line of argument if almost off topic. How does any of the above translate into Iran threatening to incinerate the Jewish nation?

It's because nothing happens in a vacuum. The UN's decision to move the Israelis to that particular area was bound to be problematic. It's as if the Israelis and surrounding peoples have been on an irreversible collision course since the UN's decision. Had the Israelis been located somewhere relatively unsettled in Africa or South or North America, things would definitely have been different.

diverdog

2/20/2012, 02:31 PM

I agree.

But you and I know it won't be.

We'll get dragged into another freaking quagmire.

If we do I may move to Canada. My family has served in enough goddamn wars and I am not sending my kids to fight in Iran or die for Israel. F*** all of them.

TheHumanAlphabet

2/20/2012, 02:53 PM

If the chit hits the fan where do you think gas prices will be after a week?

$5
$6?

Try $10...

So if all you detractors to my comments think Iran isn't backwater, then why can't we do anything to have them be even close to what other responsible nations do? If their people are so great, why do they continue in the Theocracy? Why won't they bow to international "sanctions". I am sorry, I thought "Bomb Iran" was a good song in 1977, I still think it is good today. They are today envisioning the relevance Hitler fomented and they are working that to become the arch-nemisis for the region. If they were so great, why sponsor terror in Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan, India, Thailand and now even in the U.S.???

SoonerPride

2/20/2012, 02:56 PM

Try $10...

Finally, the roads may be empty of those godforsaken SUVs.

Huzzah! :single_eye:

SouthCarolinaSooner

2/20/2012, 03:24 PM

Try $10...

So if all you detractors to my comments think Iran isn't backwater, then why can't we do anything to have them be even close to what other responsible nations do? If their people are so great, why do they continue in the Theocracy? Why won't they bow to international "sanctions". I am sorry, I thought "Bomb Iran" was a good song in 1977, I still think it is good today. They are today envisioning the relevance Hitler fomented and they are working that to become the arch-nemisis for the region. If they were so great, why sponsor terror in Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan, India, Thailand and now even in the U.S.???
Under that logic, all peoples of Central & Eastern Europe are backwater, or at least they were from 1945-1991. There is significant resistance (massive protests over the past few years), but that resistance is being hampered by the increasing weight of sanctions the US and EU. When sanctions on non weapons material are put in place, it forces the people to rely solely on what they (or rather the Iranian government) can come up with. When international trade is cut off, that's when countries become desperate and even more dangerous. Its also that much easier for the Tehran propaganda machine to rail against the west as a great evil...we claim to be the defenders of freedom and liberty, yet we won't even trade with them. Also I recall Iran at one time had a democratically elected government, but we put an end to it. Funny how that works

TheHumanAlphabet

2/20/2012, 07:15 PM

Don't disagree with you. Iran/Persia has been screwed with by everyone. Once a great society, it is now ruled by people intent on either regional domination or its own destruction. Iran with a bomb will not go well, I think that needs to be reinforced over and over again because I think some people would be fine with them having the bomb. I wish we weren't over there and didn't have to care about what they di or did not do...

jkjsooner

2/21/2012, 03:10 PM

I love the bumper stickers that say "Coexist" with all of the cute religious symbols. It makes the owner feel smarmy and superior, but they would still get beheaded if most of Iran's leadership had it's way.

I just want to point out that I see these bumper stickers as a message to all religions. The message is especially applicable to Muslims who do not want to coexist. If looked at that way I think it's a powerful and righteous message.

Turd_Ferguson

2/21/2012, 06:04 PM

I just want to point out that I see these bumper stickers as a message to all religions. The message is especially applicable to Muslims who do not want to coexist. If looked at that way I think it's a powerful and righteous message.So, you just agreed with LLL's post...right?

ouwasp

3/6/2012, 12:53 AM

PM Netanyahu's speech at AIPAC tonight was quite a red-meat speech. Iran had better look out... or drop the nuke program.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/6/2012, 02:16 AM

Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran....

SicEmBaylor

3/6/2012, 02:37 AM

Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran....
Awesome idea. Are you going to be the one to do it?

TheHumanAlphabet

3/6/2012, 04:22 AM

Awesome idea. Are you going to be the one to do it?

O'Bammy will trying to chase Netanyahu so O'Bammy won't look impotent.

Got to remember, not our friends (in no particular order):
China
Russia
North Korea
Iran
Venezuela
Iraq
Afghanistan
Pakistan

jkjsooner

3/6/2012, 10:24 AM

So, you just agreed with LLL's post...right?

I agree with his message about Muslims. I don't agree with his criticism of the coexist bumper stickers - or at least everyone who has them.

jkjsooner

3/6/2012, 10:26 AM

O'Bammy will trying to chase Netanyahu so O'Bammy won't look impotent.

Got to remember, not our friends (in no particular order):
China
Russia
North Korea
Iran
Venezuela
Iraq
Afghanistan
Pakistan

No Cuba?

TheHumanAlphabet

3/6/2012, 10:29 AM

What's Cuba going do to us? Unleashed a large oil spill in the Gulf off of Florida?

StoopTroup

3/6/2012, 10:45 AM

We shouldn't attack Iran until we've first attacked and defeated North Korea, Pakistan and China.

They are all threats to us.

Let's run up the tab !!!

5-0

I vote for you to be General over the Invading Hoards of US Troops as we take over China. Good Luck. We'll be here sewing up the 1.3 Billion Body bags you'll need.

SoonerProphet

3/6/2012, 12:03 PM

It is an epic mistake to conflate our interests with that of Israel's.

AlboSooner

3/6/2012, 08:49 PM

Why does Netanyahu feel the need to travel half-way across the world in order to thump his chest that Israel won't allow Iran to get nukes?

Do it at home bro. Take care of it. Leave us out of it.

diverdog

3/6/2012, 09:01 PM

Why does Netanyahu feel the need to travel half-way across the world in order to thump his chest that Israel won't allow Iran to get nukes?

Do it at home bro. Take care of it. Leave us out of it.

No kidding.

The idiots who are beating the drums of war with Iran have zero idea what we are getting into. It will break us.

AlboSooner

3/6/2012, 09:02 PM

No kidding.

The idiots who are beating the drums of war with Iran have zero idea what we are getting into. It will break us.
I'm not enlisting to fight Israel's wars

diverdog

3/6/2012, 09:28 PM

I'm not enlisting to fight Israel's wars

Nor are my kids. I will move them to Canada first.

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 09:41 PM

No kidding.

The idiots who are beating the drums of war with Iran have zero idea what we are getting into. It will break us.

From what I saw today...McCain and McConnell are leading the pack..

LiveLaughLove

3/6/2012, 10:08 PM

diverdog

3/6/2012, 10:13 PM

What's our cause in Syria? Obama is considering air strikes and Dem senators are in agreement.

What was our cause in Libya?

I can assure you, we have far more security reasons to support Israel against Iran than we have in either of those two places.

Having said that, I hope we don't do anything militarily, but I also hope we don't try to block Israel from doing anything either.

I think we need to get the f*** out of the ME and never look back.

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 10:14 PM

What's our cause in Syria? Obama is considering air strikes and Dem senators are in agreement.

What was our cause in Libya?

I can assure you, we have far more security reasons to support Israel against Iran than we have in either of those two places.

Having said that, I hope we don't do anything militarily, but I also hope we don't try to block Israel from doing anything either.

Triple L, only problem with Isreal is that if they do something, by default we're in it.
(BTW, If I were Iran, I would not rattle Isreal's cage...pound for pound, finest fighters
in the world, possible exeception is Seal Team 6).

SoonerorLater

3/6/2012, 10:37 PM

The train has left the station. Any decision the United States makes with regards to Iran will be wrong. At this point it is no-win. All roads lead to WW III.

diverdog

3/6/2012, 10:45 PM

Triple L, only problem with Isreal is that if they do something, by default we're in it.
(BTW, If I were Iran, I would not rattle Isreal's cage...pound for pound, finest fighters
in the world, possible exeception is Seal Team 6).

Israel is good but not that good. They have been beating up on ****ty armies for a long time. They have never tangled with the likes of the Vietnamese or North Koreans or for that matter the Taliban.

LiveLaughLove

3/6/2012, 10:51 PM

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 11:00 PM

Israel is good but not that good. They have been beating up on ****ty armies for a long time. They have never tangled with the likes of the Vietnamese or North Koreans or for that matter the Taliban.

Diver, fair points, but if anyone thinks that Isreal doesn't have each and every vital target of Iran
already in its fire control system, they would be sadly mistaken. My point is here is Iran would
literally go into shock because the head of the snake would be severed. Combine that with the
default of US air support and satellite/AWACs intelligence and at least 2 full seaborne battlegroups
close by and probably at least two more under way, not only would Iran be in deep do-do, I doubt
that anyone else would do anything except run their mouths. Iran is persona non grata around
the globe. Personally, I pray that Iran backs away and lets the world stop the rush for nukes
and common sense prevail.

diverdog

3/6/2012, 11:02 PM

Their combat equipment is getting aged, but their still good fighters. Good leadership.

I had the chance to join them back in the early 80s, and wanted to do so, but I am probably the single pickiest eater in history. Their food sucked so bad, that I was afraid I would starve to death. I declined.

What is awesome about Israel is the Mossad. Bad freaking dudes and dudettes.

My family is friends with one of their top aces. I went to Israel for a few days during the first gulf war to deliver Patriot Missiles. They have good forces but the countries I would not want to fight are the Asian nations. They are exceptionally skilled fighters.

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 11:06 PM

Their combat equipment is getting aged, but their still good fighters. Good leadership.

I had the chance to join them back in the early 80s, and wanted to do so, but I am probably the single pickiest eater in history. Their food sucked so bad, that I was afraid I would starve to death. I declined.

What is awesome about Israel is the Mossad. Bad freaking dudes and dudettes.

Triple L, in the late 60's when I was in the Air Force Security Service, there were stories to support
your contention. No matter the quality of their opponents, they do kick a$$!

diverdog

3/6/2012, 11:07 PM

Diver, fair points, but if anyone thinks that Isreal doesn't have each and every vital target of Iran
already in its fire control system, they would be sadly mistaken. My point is here is Iran would
literally go into shock because the head of the snake would be severed. Combine that with the
default of US air support and satellite/AWACs intelligence and at least 2 full seaborne battlegroups
close by and probably at least two more under way, not only would Iran be in deep do-do, I doubt
that anyone else would do anything except run their mouths. Iran is persona non grata around
the globe. Personally, I pray that Iran backs away and lets the world stop the rush for nukes
and common sense prevail.

Rock.

Israel does not have the ability or forces to sustain a prolonged air campaign to knock out Irans command and control. Everyone seems to forget Israel has to fly over hostile territory to hit Iran. The may do it once but after that they will have problems. The US is the only country that can effectively hit Iran and my guess is that Israel wants to drag us into a fight. We should not allow that to happen.

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 11:12 PM

My family is friends with one of their top aces. I went to Israel for a few days during the first gulf war to deliver Patriot Missiles. They have good forces but the countries I would not want to fight are the Asian nations. They are exceptionally skilled fighters.

True, but they don't have international delivery capability to go interfere in the Middle East,
except China and their navy isn't ready yet and air is too long range for them to sustain
long term combat, By the time they could, Iran would be a sheet of glass or at least a
bunch of sand dunes.

rock on sooner

3/6/2012, 11:17 PM

Rock.

Israel does not have the ability or forces to sustain a prolonged air campaign to knock out Irans command and control. Everyone seems to forget Israel has to fly over hostile territory to hit Iran. The may do it once but after that they will have problems. The US is the only country that can effectively hit Iran and my guess is that Israel wants to drag us into a fight. We should not allow that to happen.

Agree absolutely. I'm not in favor of any more conflict. Israel would, in the initial strike, do enough
damage to Iran's C & C that there'd be very little fight, if any, in them. The Iranian people don't want
conflict and I don't think they'd support their leadership.

ouwasp

3/6/2012, 11:18 PM

Rock.

Israel does not have the ability or forces to sustain a prolonged air campaign to knock out Irans command and control. Everyone seems to forget Israel has to fly over hostile territory to hit Iran. The may do it once but after that they will have problems. The US is the only country that can effectively hit Iran and my guess is that Israel wants to drag us into a fight. We should not allow that to happen.

The question is... if and when Israel hits Iran, will Iran follow up with their threat to close the Straits of Hormuz? Would they hit the Saudi oilfields? That would likely bring the US in by default. But Iran most certainly cannot hope to remain much of a regional power with the USN kicking their tails...

but that brings us back to the 12th Imam, the Shiite Messiah. Supposedly, his return requires all sorts of heck breaking loose... so perhaps the Iranians will actually stick their neck in the noose...

diverdog

3/6/2012, 11:26 PM

True, but they don't have international delivery capability to go interfere in the Middle East,
except China and their navy isn't ready yet and air is too long range for them to sustain
long term combat, By the time they could, Iran would be a sheet of glass or at least a
bunch of sand dunes.

Russia and China have some decent strategic airlift capabilities. They could project some power internationally. Russia still has an effective heavy bomber fleet. China is getting there.

Israel is very good at operational planning. The issue for them with Iran is that the way the sites are set up it would be almost impossible to take them out without a quantum leap in bunker busters. I have heard talk of a newer weapon using depleted uranium to get deeper bomb penetration. Probably a more effective remedy is to hit all those sites with a dirty bomb and make them unuseable. Hell anthrax would be another option but the world would come down on Israel like a ton of bricks.

LiveLaughLove

3/7/2012, 12:18 AM

If Iran gets nukes, the Saudis have said all bets are off, and they are going to buy them also.

Iran is very destabilizing for everyone, not just Israel and the US.

Then you throw in the Russians are hell bent on letting them get their way, and they are sabre rattling too. It could get very ugly before it gets better.

rock on sooner

3/7/2012, 07:57 AM

TUSooner

3/7/2012, 08:54 AM

****The Iranian people don't want
conflict and I don't think they'd support their leadership.
I agree with the first clause but not the second. I understand that most "opposition" Iranians are still nationalistic. I hear that they support the nuclear program (in varying degrees) and would unite with their countrymen in the face of any attack by foreigners, at least in the short term. I think it is very unwise to assume that attacking Iran will strengthen the opposition. Perhaps long-term pressure will take its toll on the regime, but an attack will only strengthen it.

PS- The armchair generals on this board scare me almost as much as an Iranian nuke. I hope the real generals have a lot more sense.

rock on sooner

3/7/2012, 11:23 AM

TUSooner, there's a reason I'm armchair generaling and it's because the real ones are where they
are and I can think and dream outloud and not harm anyone.:playful:

LiveLaughLove

3/7/2012, 11:29 AM

PS- The armchair generals on this board scare me almost as much as an Iranian nuke.

Seriously? People with no real power to control events that simply discuss it on a Discussion Board scare you almost as much as Iran?

You need to get out more.

AlboSooner

3/10/2012, 09:29 PM

Israel is good but not that good. They have been beating up on ****ty armies for a long time. They have never tangled with the likes of the Vietnamese or North Koreans or for that matter the Taliban.

Agree.

Goes the same for Mossad. People hold the Mossad to high regard because they can assassinate anybody anywhere, but little do people know what Mossad doesn't move unless the CIA gives the OK first.

diverdog

3/11/2012, 08:52 PM

Agree.

Goes the same for Mossad. People hold the Mossad to high regard because they can assassinate anybody anywhere, but little do people know what Mossad doesn't move unless the CIA gives the OK first.

Good segment on 60 Minutes tonight with the former head of the Mossad. He does not think Iran can be stopped and that a war with Iran will destroy Israel. He said as many as 50,000 missiles may rain down on Israeli territories.

pphilfran

3/12/2012, 11:04 AM

General (Ret) McChrystal is going to be talking about Afghanistan this Friday at Cameron....I am sure he will touch base on Iran....being held in the gym and it is sold out...they are going to broadcast to a separate auditorium to handle the overflow...

http://www.cameron.edu/media-releases2011/academic-festival

For those with short memories...

McChrystal is widely praised for creating a revolution in warfare that fused intelligence and operations. He is the former commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan and the former leader of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), which oversees the military’s most sensitive forces. McChrystal’s leadership of JSOC is credited with the December 2003 capture of Saddam Hussein and the June 2006 location and killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq. McChrystal, a former Green Beret, is known for his candor, innovative leadership, and going the distance.