I agree: GOP= epic fail as 2nd party, isn't credible conservative opposition

[TUSooner]

Snatched, via facebook, from NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/opinion/sunday/friedman-we-need-a-second-party.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share&src=tp&pagewanted=print

I have edited the thing, so look to the link if you want the full monty.


February 11, 2012
We Need a Second Party
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
WATCHING the Republican Party struggling to agree on a presidential candidate, one wonders whether the G.O.P. shouldn’t just sit this election out — just give 2012 a pass****

The party has let itself become the captive of conflicting ideological bases: anti-abortion advocates, anti-immigration activists, social conservatives worried about the sanctity of marriage, libertarians who want to shrink government, and anti-tax advocates who want to drown government in a bathtub.

Sorry, but you can’t address the great challenges America faces today with that incoherent mix of hardened positions. I’ve argued that maybe we need a third party to break open our political system. But that’s a long shot. What we definitely and urgently need is a second party — a coherent Republican opposition that is offering constructive conservative proposals on the key issues and is ready for strategic compromises to advance its interests and those of the country.

Without that, the best of the Democrats — who have been willing to compromise — have no partners and the worst have a free pass for their own magical thinking. Since such a transformed Republican Party is highly unlikely, maybe the best thing would be for it to get crushed in this election and forced into a fundamental rethink — something the Democrats had to go through when they lost three in a row between 1980 and 1988. We need a “Different Kind of Republican” the way Bill Clinton gave us a “Different Kind of Democrat.”

Because when I look at America’s three greatest challenges today, I don’t see the Republican candidates offering realistic answers to any of them.

The first is responding to the challenges and opportunities of an era in which globalization and the information technology revolution have dramatically intensified, creating a hyperconnected world ****

The second of our great long-term challenges are our huge debt and entitlement obligations. They can’t be fixed without raising and reforming taxes and trimming entitlements and defense. We absolutely cannot just cut entitlements and defense. That would imperil the personal security and national security of every American. We must also reform taxes to raise more revenues.

But when all the Republican candidates last year said they would not accept a deal with Democrats that involved even $1 in tax increases in return for $10 in spending cuts, the G.O.P. cut itself off from reality. It became a radical party, not a conservative one. And for the candidates to wrap themselves in a cartoon version of Ronald Reagan — a real conservative who raised taxes, including the gasoline tax, when he discovered his own cuts had gone too far — is fraudulent.

Our third great challenge is how we power our future **** The current Republican candidates are so captured by the oil and coal lobbies that they can’t think seriously about this huge opportunity for energy innovation.

Until the G.O.P. stops being radical and returns to being conservative, it won’t provide what the country needs most now — competition — competition with Democrats on the issues that will determine whether we thrive in the 21st century. We need to hear conservative fiscal policies, energy policies, immigration policies and public-private partnership concepts — not radical ones. Would somebody please restore our second party? The country is starved for a grown-up debate.
I repeat the last line: "Would somebody please restore our second party? The country is starved for a grown-up debate."

[soonercruiser]

Will someone please restore the real Democratic Party that I was registered in back in the 1970's????
It wasn't the Socialist Party back then.
:playful:

[Midtowner]

Will someone please restore the real Democratic Party that I was registered in back in the 1970's????
It wasn't the Socialist Party back then.
:playful:

Yeah, those Republicans and their Great Society...

[TUSooner]

Will someone please restore the real Democratic Party that I was registered in back in the 1970's????
It wasn't the Socialist Party back then.
:playful:

Translation: I'm not reading that, and you can't make me think about it! ;)

[SoonerPride]

They sold their soul to the Evangelical right.

Now they are being consumed from within by the Tea Party.

They really need to be two parties.

One party can be the values voter party that opposes abortions, gay marriage, wants prayers in school, and constitutional amendments to stop flag burning (remember when that was a big deal?)

The other party can be about fiscal responsibility and low taxes.

The two don't really fit together well at all and watching Romney try to two step his way across that mine field is painful.

Or hilarious, depending upon your viewpoint.

[XingTheRubicon]

The have-nots giving advice to the haves...precious.


Everyone knows that Reagan was far from perfect. Reflecting on past presidents will always be preferable to current President critiques...hopefully we'll start reflecting on Obama a few months from now.

[47straight]

People complain because the republicans aren't real conservatives because they spend like FDR.

Then when republicans change other people complain because the republicans aren't real conservatives because they aren't compromising.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Bring back the Whigs!

[TUSooner]

*****
They really need to be two parties.

One party can be the values voter party that opposes abortions, gay marriage, wants prayers in school, and constitutional amendments to stop flag burning (remember when that was a big deal?)

The other party can be about fiscal responsibility and low taxes.

The two don't really fit together well at all....

Really, how did that happen? I think most Republican voters really care much more about the social issues than about fiscal restraint. Just a guess Promise them the Gub'ment will spare no expense to impose the conservative social agenda, and I predict their concern over the deficit will fade.

It is sad to see Romney have to run against his old self because his old self was too sensible and practical to appeal to the GOP radicals.

[badger]

Bring back the Whigs!

Perhaps the "Know Nothings" would be a better solution in these crazy political times.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Really, how did that happen? I think most Republican voters really care much more about the social issues than about fiscal restraint. Just a guess Promise them the Gub'ment will spare no expense to impose the conservative social agenda, and I predict their concern over the deficit will fade.

It is sad to see Romney have to run against his old self because his old self was too sensible and practical to appeal to the GOP radicals.

And that's one of the biggest problems I have with Romney. He is so willing to reinvent himself in order to appeal to the radicals, I've even heard him spouting non-sense talking point lines like "European socialism" when talking about Obama's policies -- even if those policies almost mirror his own when he was governor.

To me, it's a lot like falling for someone who cheated on his/her spouse in order to be with you. Or, like the POW who suddenly decides to suck up to his captors in order to gain a little favor. Eventually, you have to ask if he's just saying what you want to hear in order to meet his own ends. Sadly, that's become the norm in national politics.

[TUSooner]

Perhaps the "Know Nothings" would be a better solution in these crazy political times.

Many of them post here. I hope they are not offended that you seem to have overlooked their contributions to our political forum. :wink:

[badger]

Many of them post here. I hope they are not offended that you seem to have overlooked their contributions to our political forum. :wink:

Meh, everyone has their own way of contributing to this bored board. My best contributions are bankrupting posters of your vCash. Everything else? I know about as much nothing as everyone else :P

[okie52]

The party has let itself become the captive of conflicting ideological bases: anti-abortion advocates, anti-immigration activists, social conservatives worried about the sanctity of marriage, libertarians who want to shrink government, and anti-tax advocates who want to drown government in a bathtub.



Until the G.O.P. stops being radical and returns to being conservative, it won’t provide what the country needs most now — competition — competition with Democrats on the issues that will determine whether we thrive in the 21st century. We need to hear conservative fiscal policies, energy policies, immigration policies and public-private partnership concepts — not radical ones. Would somebody please restore our second party? The country is starved for a grown-up debate.

Radical? Grown up debate?

Anti immigration? Just what does that mean? Are Republicans stating they are against legal immigration which provides for over 500,000 legal immigrants per year? 12,000,000 people being granted citizenship is the moderate position? States trying to curb illegal immigration in the absence of any federal enforcement are the radicals?

Energy policies? Heh, heh. Now who are the radical ones? The ones that mandate punishing our energy producers and their consumers while offering no viable alternatives? The one that has consisently denied access to our energy sources in spite of worldwide exploration to do the same? The ones that would forego thousands of high paying jobs, tax revenues, royalties, and large reductions in our trade deficit because it doesn't fit your "moderate" ideology? The ones who have totally ignored NG for the last 3 years (if they weren't seeking to punish it) which would have reduced CO2 and moved the country towards energy independence?

With articles like this it would be easy to see why we won't get grown up debates. Comic relief, maybe.

[soonercoop1]

Why would anyone compromise? Idiot Repubs have compromised with Dems for decades hence our current predicament. Why would anyone agree to raise taxes to pay for something they didn't want or ask for and also believe has destroyed their country?

[Blue]

Radical? Grown up debate?

Anti immigration? Just what does that mean? Are Republicans stating they are against legal immigration which provides for over 500,000 legal immigrants per year? 12,000,000 people being granted citizenship is the moderate position? States trying to curb illegal immigration in the absence of any federal enforcement are the radicals?

Energy policies? Heh, heh. Now who are the radical ones? The ones that mandate punishing our energy producers and their consumers while offering no viable alternatives? The one that has consisently denied access to our energy sources in spite of worldwide exploration to do the same? The ones that would forego thousands of high paying jobs, tax revenues, royalties, and large reductions in our trade deficit because it doesn't fit your "moderate" ideology? The ones who have totally ignored NG for the last 3 years (if they weren't seeking to punish it) which would have reduced CO2 and moved the country towards energy independence?

With articles like this it would be easy to see why we won't get grown up debates. Comic relief, maybe.

Right on.

[Whet]

Yep, the liberal Friedman will write a totally unbiased story about his nemesis, the Republican Party. That is like Barfy Obama writing about 2nd Amendment rights.

[Midtowner]

Yep, the liberal Friedman will write a totally unbiased story about his nemesis, the Republican Party. That is like Barfy Obama writing about 2nd Amendment rights.

Ad hominem. Is the reasoning wrong?

And "Barfy"?

Friedman said "The country is starved for a grown-up debate."

How right he is.

[SoonerPride]

The problem is that all the adult conservatives, you know, the William F Buckleys et al, have shuffled off this mortal coil and we're left with Palin and Perry with his Jesuspalooza crowd.

Romney tries to act like an adult until he realizes the Tea Party throng would prefer a carnival instead of a sound debate based on substantive differences.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The problem is that all the adult conservatives, you know, the William F Buckleys et al, have shuffled off this mortal coil and we're left with Palin and Perry with his Jesuspalooza crowd.

Romney tries to act like an adult until he realizes the Tea Party throng would prefer a carnival instead of a sound debate based on substantive differences.Like you would ****'n know...you've already proved your self to be the hack that you are...suck on it, eat it, live with it...

[Whet]

Ad hominem. Is the reasoning wrong?

And "Barfy"?

Friedman said "The country is starved for a grown-up debate."
How right he is.

Yes, it is wrong. Excuse my subconscious typo, but it does kinda fit. Barfy, Barry, Obama, Soetoro, Muslim, not Muslim, listened in church, not listened in church, 57 states, 50 states, corpse man, 3rd greatest president, 4th greatest president, knows Billy Aires, don't know Billy Aires.

[sappstuf]

Ad hominem. Is the reasoning wrong?

And "Barfy"?

Friedman said "The country is starved for a grown-up debate."

How right he is.

Yes it is. The Dems wanted the tax increases to happen right away, but the spending cuts didn't take place until years 8-9-10. No current Congress can tell a future Congress what to spend or cut, so then the cuts never take place. The Dems have pulled it off before and while it is very clever, it does nothing to help the country.

[Midtowner]

Yes, it is wrong. Excuse my subconscious typo, but it does kinda fit. Barfy, Barry, Obama, Soetoro, Muslim, not Muslim, listened in church, not listened in church, 57 states, 50 states, corpse man, 3rd greatest president, 4th greatest president, knows Billy Aires, don't know Billy Aires.

With every post, you just prove Friedman more and more right. Let's take your nonsense one bit at a time...

1) You already addressed your "typo," which you've now made multiple times. Childish.

2) Soetoro, see http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

3) Muslim? Are you joking?

4) Listened in church? Meh

5) 57 states... boy have some folks tried to get some mileage out of that flub.

6) 3rd greatest presidential orator of the modern age behind Roosevelt and JFK according to some Huffpo contributor. I'm not sure what else you could mean by that.

7) You take "4th best President" from the following: “The issue here is not going be a list of accomplishments. As you said yourself, Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president — with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln — just in terms of what we’ve gotten done in modern history. But, you know, but when it comes to the economy, we’ve got a lot more work to do.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70684.html#ixzz1mKDqtlyI

8) Billy Aires? You mean William Ayers? Hey, if you're going to do this sort of Alinskian guilt by association nonsense, at least have the decency to spell names correctly.

--and this is exactly what Friedman was talking about.

[Midtowner]

Yes it is. The Dems wanted the tax increases to happen right away, but the spending cuts didn't take place until years 8-9-10. No current Congress can tell a future Congress what to spend or cut, so then the cuts never take place. The Dems have pulled it off before and while it is very clever, it does nothing to help the country.

Well thanks for that. I actually agree with you there. The deal offered by the Dems was chicken****. That said, talking about 57 states and "Barfy" Obama and Mooslim stuff is just the sort of carnival nonsense I'm applauding the columnist for calling out.

Dems need to be a little more realistic about spending cuts, 'pubs need to realize that if we want to do all of this stuff with the government, fight all these wars, etc., we need to be charging a lot more in taxes.

[Whet]

He is not worth spelling his name correctly!

Now, little Barry Soetoro never attended a muslim school, nor was identified as a muslim in that school's records?

How the **** is Obama not connected to Alinsky?

You may think about laying off the Soetoro Kool aide

[StoopTroup]

'pubs need to realize that if we want to do all of this stuff with the government, fight all these wars, etc., we need to be charging a lot more in taxes.

They also need to realize that they can't go around the World with this chip on their shoulder that they will go to War if they don't get their way. Stuff like what happened in Iraq where we went to War because we didn't think the people investigating WMDs were doing a good job needs to never ever happen again.

Right now if you are a Senator promoting we go to War and you are protecting your children from being in the Military instead of asking them to join up and go fight for the beliefs you believe in....it's a bit hard for me to follow. I'd rather that people who feel it's fine to promote War and not have their Family involved....that they not run for political Office. This is America. We shouldn't ever be asking other Americans to support something that risks any of their Family Members Lives if they aren't willing to risk their own Family members Lives. That's not the America I grew up learning about. The America I know had generations of politicians that made hard choices that involved losing one of their own. That includes both parties too.

If we are going to be involved in more Wars like the last two we had....our Country needs to address Military Service and the possibility of what a Draft will look like in this Country. It's great to get rid of "Don't ask don't tell" but if you ever need the Gay or Lesbian Community to register so we can institute a draft for another War.....we don't need another Anti-War movement. We need to address the concerns of any Anti-War Sentiment and get back to teaching children and our Citizens about being a Patriot and defending our Country and what serving your Country is about. We need to get back to Americans being able to trust that if we get involved in a Military Action...that it's for the good of America and not just some Corporations Lobbyists.

If you do that....you won't need to worry about taxes. Americans will again melt down their watches and have their disabled Family Members working in factories to stuff black powder into ammo for our Soldiers.

[Midtowner]

He is not worth spelling his name correctly!

kFnFr-DOPf8


Now, little Barry Soetoro never attended a muslim school, nor was identified as a muslim in that school's records?

LOL. He went to a Muslim grade school. Hey! I went to Catholic school with lots of Jews. I guess I should call 'em up and tell them they're gentiles now.


How the **** is Obama not connected to Alinsky?

"Connected to" is a funny Glenn Beckish term. As far as Alinsky goes, he died when Obama was still in grade school, maybe in Indonesia. Pretty hard to connect the two. Funny enough, Newt Gingrich has been engaging in Alinksian tactics himself. So I guess he's "connected" as well!

[Whet]

You are claiming Barry Soetoro DID NOT teach Saul's principles to his "community organizers" or was not involved with the Industrial Areas Foundation?

http://tarpon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/obama-alinsky-power-analysis-300x202.jpg


You are claiming Barry Soetoro was not identified as a muslim on his school records?

Put the Kool aid down!

here's the link, so you can report unObama activities: https://my.barackobama.com/page/s/report-an-attack

[Whet]

From an obama friendly site:
http://nhi.org/online/issues/149/obama.html
(http://nhi.org/online/issues/149/obama.html)

One thing is clear about Obama: No matter what he learned on the streets of South Chicago, in the classrooms of Harvard Law School, in the church he joined or in the gritty politics of the Illinois Senate, he had the air of a "natural." When Kendall first met Obama shortly after he came to Chicago, she recalls telling her husband, "I just met somebody we're going to say we knew him when. He just had some quality about him, something special. I can count the number of times I've said that on one hand. It was just a presence and self-assurance about him at such a young age." And after Obama became DCP's director, Bagby recalls, "I said, 'What am I doing following this young boy?' But he was just so knowledgeable, and he knew just how to get you to do what you needed to do, and he knew what we needed to do. I never knew anybody who could lead somebody without them knowing he was leading."

But even a natural needs some training and practice. Gerald Kellman, who first recruited Obama, taught him the basics, and he also learned from organizing trainers associated with the Gamaliel Foundation (http://www.gamaliel.org/) and theIndustrial Areas Foundation (http://www.industrialareasfoundation.org/) (IAF). Both organize community groups, primarily religious congregations, and trace their lineage to Saul Alinsky.

Alinsky, the patron saint of contemporary community organizing, started working in the Back of the Yards neighborhood, next to the Chicago Stockyards. In 1941 he established the IAF, envisioning his neighborhood work as a complement to industrial union organizing.

Neighborhood churches were important institutions in Alinsky's strategy and became even more critical to the work of his heir at the IAF, Ed Chambers. Alinsky and his disciples wanted to help ordinary citizens create powerful local organizations that could demand change from politicians and corporate executives. They focused on developing relationships among community leaders, such as pastors or lay leaders of congregations, who could mobilize other people through their institutional connections.

Gregory Galluzzo, a Gamaliel founder, was one of Obama's teachers. "I tell people I'm a mentor," Galluzzo says, "but an organizer is like a musician. A musician has to play music. Somebody listens and points a few things out. But nobody teaches a jazz musician jazz. This man was gifted. An older musician would know if a young musician was practicing, and Barack was always practicing."

Practicing involved one-on-one meetings with potential leaders-listening to them and developing relationships, then getting those leaders to mobilize other people for "actions." Alinsky often favored flamboyant, theatrical confrontations, but the typical action for contemporary faith-based community groups like Gamaliel is a large meeting where community leaders present their case for change, then demand a commitment of concrete support from some official.

According to other organizers and community leaders who worked with him, Obama insisted on democratic process and resisted exaggeration of successes. And he followed the organizers' credo: Be accountable to others and demand accountability from leaders in return. He pushed the local leaders into the limelight, they say, keeping himself in the background.

Loretta Augustine-Herron, a part-time teacher who was a DCP leader, recalled one such occasion, a meeting with a city employment and training official. Augustine-Herron was supposed to be the group leader for the meeting. "This lady came in and was very aggressive and domineering," she says. "I was supposed to introduce the issue, and she tried to take over. She said, 'You don't even know what we do.' From the back of the room, Barack shouted, 'We want to hear about the issue. We want to hear what Loretta has to say.' Then the whole group picked up the chant, and she backed down."

While he often stayed in the background, Obama was anything but passive, according to his former fellow organizers. Galluzzo recalls Obama's efforts to organize residents of Altgeld Gardens, a Far South Side public-housing development, to demand removal of asbestos from their apartments. The night before a trip to meet with Chicago Housing Authority officials a big crowd turned out, but the next morning few people showed up for the trek to the CHA office. So Obama began dragging people out of the projects into the van.

"People the night before promised to take a stand," Galluzzo says. "But the people in public housing, they didn't show up after they said they would. The organization's reputation was on the line. Barack was on the line. And Barack filled that van. We had our action. An organizer is one who says, 'Damn it, I'll make it happen.' People don't just rise up."

Oops! Wrong again! He was an alinsky!!

[Midtowner]

You are claiming Barry Soetoro DID NOT teach Saul's principles to his "community organizers" or was not involved with the Industrial Areas Foundation?

So what if he was? Saul Alinsky was a pretty great guy by all accounts.


You are claiming Barry Soetoro was not identified as a muslim on his school records?

So what if some adult wrote that in his school records? Does that make him a Muslim? And if he was?

[Whet]

Tune changes when confronted with facts? Ha!!

Buh bye!

[Mississippi Sooner]

Saul Alinsky was a pretty great guy by all accounts.

I've found that most of those who scream "Alinskian tactics!" actually know very little about who Saul Alinsky was or what he did. The man really did do a lot of good.

[Midtowner]

I've found that most of those who scream "Alinskian tactics!" actually know very little about who Saul Alinsky was or what he did. The man really did do a lot of good.

Yep. Unless you're not a fan of equal rights for blacks, I don't really get this Alinskian bogeyman some in the carnival-right are trying to trot out.

[SoonerPride]

I've found that most of those who scream "Alinskian tactics!" actually know very little about who Saul Alinsky was or what he did. The man really did do a lot of good.

Yep. Unless you're not a fan of equal rights for blacks, I don't really get this Alinskian bogeyman some in the carnival-right are trying to trot out.

I think it's just his name is too "foreign sounding."

If he was named Jeb Reagan they would live him.

[TUSooner]

A simple example of where the GOP is going off track would be its aiming low to get the Whet vote.
Who cares about actually governing you can stoke up the rabble simply by hating on the President 24/7? Heck who COULD govern when blinded and obsessed with all that hate? Some folks care more about what Obama did when he was 6 or 7 than what is actually happening now. But I digress.

The best point Friedman makes is that the GOP refuses to deal with the deficit like grown ups. They would let the gubment shut down before raising a penny's worth of taxes on the people who can afford it the most. Thus they protect the rich from imaginary bogey man of "class warfare." When will the Republican rank and file wake up stop eating this elephant crap?

[okie52]

It's always amusing to hear one side bitch about the other side's dogma and then goosestep to their own party's drum beat.

[RFH Shakes]

Who cares about actually governing you can stoke up the rabble simply by hating on the President 24/7?


Hmmmm, sounds an awful lot like what has been happening for the last 12 years! Why has this just now become an issue only in the last couple of years? It was funny to make fun of or "hate on" the last president because he was from the other side of the isle but not current one? I seem to remember no matter what Bush said the Dems were opposed to it just like the current situation.

Maybe, just maybe, some people have come to realize that after 12 years of unchecked spending that we cannot continue down that same path. If you want to raise taxes to pay for it, raise taxes on everyone not just the "rich". (we are all equal right?) Personally, I would rather we cut spending (actually cut spending not just lessen the amount of the increased spending) but that is political suicide for anyone relying on the entitlement vote. (...and really, who likes to live on a budget anyway! Where's the fun in that? That debt is the next guys problem)

[TUSooner]

It's always amusing to hear one side bitch about the other side's dogma and then goosestep to their own party's drum beat.

If that is directed at me, then you have no idea what I'm talking about.

[TUSooner]

Hmmmm, sounds an awful lot like what has been happening for the last 12 years! Why has this just now become an issue only in the last couple of years? It was funny to make fun of or "hate on" the last president because he was from the other side of the isle but not current one? I seem to remember no matter what Bush said the Dems were opposed to it just like the current situation.

Maybe, just maybe, some people have come to realize that after 12 years of unchecked spending that we cannot continue down that same path. If you want to raise taxes to pay for it, raise taxes on everyone not just the "rich". (we are all equal right?) Personally, I would rather we cut spending (actually cut spending not just lessen the amount of the increased spending) but that is political suicide for anyone relying on the entitlement vote. (...and really, who likes to live on a budget anyway! Where's the fun in that? That debt is the next guys problem)

That is true. never liked Clinton (slippery as Romney, but without the squeaky clean Mormon persona. ) But how much energy was wasted on impeaching Clinton, for getting a hummer from Lewinsky and not wanting to admit it ? How little was gained by calling W a bunch of names? I think the hate for Obama is a notch above, though. If only because there is more talking and ranting and posing in the media than there was 12 years ago. The point of the article (remember that?) , though, is that the Republican party is falling all over itself to court the various sects of ranters and howlers and no longer presents a coherent and effective counterbalance to the Dems. The radicals around here think that's just fine, thank you, and may we have some more please. But they certainly don't disprove Friedman's point.

[okie52]

If that is directed at me, then you have no idea what I'm talking about.


The best point Friedman makes is that the GOP refuses to deal with the deficit like grown ups. They would let the gubment shut down before raising a penny's worth of taxes on the people who can afford it the most. Thus they protect the rich from imaginary bogey man of "class warfare." When will the Republican rank and file wake up stop eating this elephant crap?

If you believe CBO projections:

The debt projected over the next 10 years for the Bush tax cuts was close to $4,000,000,000,000. Less than 1/5 of that amount was attributable to the wealthy. So we ignore 80% of that debt rather than allow all tax cuts to expire and return to the good ole days of the Clinton tax rates.

[RFH Shakes]

That is true. never liked Clinton (slippery as Romney, but without the squeaky clean Mormon persona. ) But how much energy was wasted on impeaching Clinton, for getting a hummer from Lewinsky and not wanting to admit it ? How little was gained by calling W a bunch of names? I think the hate for Obama is a notch above, though. If only because there is more talking and ranting and posing in the media than there was 12 years ago. The point of the article (remember that?) , though, is that the Republican party is falling all over itself to court the various sects of ranters and howlers and no longer presents a coherent and effective counterbalance to the Dems. The radicals around here think that's just fine, thank you, and may we have some more please. But they certainly don't disprove Friedman's point.

The article, same coin different side. A few years ago people were writing articles about about how the Dems were alienating there own and would they be able to survive. In other words the pendulum swing both right and left. The only difference between a "yes-man" and a "ranter / howler" is who has the majority.

[TUSooner]

The article, same coin different side. A few years ago people were writing articles about about how the Dems were alienating there own and would they be able to survive. In other words the pendulum swing both right and left. The only difference between a "yes-man" and a "ranter / howler" is who has the majority.

I think Friedman said the same thing about the Dems.

[dwarthog]

Good old Maxine Waters jumps into the "grown up" debate with both feet and calls Boehner and Cantor "Demons". Maybe Friedman should pay a bit closer attention to what passes for "grown up" debate on his side of the aisle.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/291178/maxine-waters-boehnor-and-cantor-are-demons-noah-glyn

[MR2-Sooner86]

The Republicans had their shot and blew it.

- limited Government
- following the Constitution
- reducing spending
- free-market economics

These are supposedly their bread and butter and they destroyed the man who was all of it and more because he wasn't willing to kill more American soldiers in the Middle East.

Then you look at the Tea Party which is the "grassroots" taking it all back from the "establishment."

The vast majority of Tea Party supporters - 70% - oppose cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, a new McClatchy-Marist poll found. (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-20/news/29473101_1_tea-party-supporters-medicare-and-medicaid-vouchers-for-private-coverage)

They've also screamed about social security and military cuts. What else is there to trim as that's a big chunk of the budget? Of course, these are the same people who booed the Golden Rule.

The Republican Party will pay for selling out to Bible Thumpers and if they nominate Frothy it'll be a defeat they won't be able to recover from for a long, long time. I personally hope the party falls apart on itself in a blaze of glory.

With that said, I'm not giving the Democrats a pass. They're pieces of **** but I know what they are. The Republicans are hypocritical sons of bitches.