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Jacie
2/7/2012, 07:51 PM
Finally, a reasonable playoff plan, one puts the power back where it belongs, in the hands of the colleges instead of the bowl moguls lining their own pockets with profits from a product they pay practically nothing to market. I like it.


Jim Delany gives his stamp of approval to playoff


By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports1 hour, 48 minutes ago


Of all the criticism lobbed at Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany through the years – and it’s been considerable – no one ever has said he wasn’t intelligent, pragmatic and, most important, politically savvy.

Delany was going to defend the controversial BCS until the moment he wasn’t. And at that point, he was going to run from it like the tire fire it is.

Delany understands the winds of change blowing through college football and that the likelihood he could hold off a playoff was remote, at best.

So now the death of the BCS is upon us. That much is certain.

Right now, there isn’t a single conference publicly supporting the current system. All that’s left are a few rogue holdouts among presidents, coaches and athletic directors, and not even Delany is among them.

Monday’s Chicago Tribune detailed not just the Big Ten’s sudden interest in a playoff (two months ago, Delany still was publicly opposed) but, more important, its plan to shape the system so it might actually benefit the league competitively.

The Big Ten is open to more than a four-team playoff – expanding access to increase the likelihood a team from the conference makes the field. It also is contemplating a plan to have the semifinals played at campus sites and for the championship game to be open to bid by any city, not just traditional bowl sites. That would include some in the Midwest, particularly Indianapolis, which just flawlessly hosted the Super Bowl.

“It’s a matter of coming up with something that does not kill the baby with the bath water,” Delany told the Tribune’s Teddy Greenstein, a bizarre mixed metaphor.

This kills nothing. It’s a simple plan and an extremely important step forward that every fan should support. Except for bowl executives and their spokesmen, there’s nothing not to like here.

Delany hasn’t formally supported the proposal, but he wouldn’t have talked about it in the newspaper if he opposed it. He’ll smartly use his support as political capital, getting out of the way for the four-team playoff only if the other conference commissioners throw him a bone as they plot how to crown a champion starting in 2014.

Home field and an open bidding process are some of the bones. We presume guaranteed exclusive access to the Rose Bowl for non-playoff Big Ten and Pac-12 representatives is the other. Maybe there is more.

Regardless, the 180-degree shift is telling. The Big Ten isn’t grudgingly accepting the smallest step forward: an unseeded “plus one” or a four-team playoff using traditional neutral-site bowl games.

Instead, it’s going bold and proposing that college football frees itself from the bowl industry and stops outsourcing its most valuable games.

Combine this with a CBSSports.com report that there is a movement toward requiring seven wins for bowl eligibility – a standard that would kill off maybe a half-dozen minor bowls – and it’s clear college administrators’ patience with bowl games is waning.

Maybe it was all the bowl scandals and corruption. Maybe it was the realization of the tens of millions of dollars being skimmed off the top. Maybe it’s all the schools that lost money playing in these games. Maybe it’s the sagging attendance and TV ratings.

Whatever it is, the bowl lobby may not be able to dole out enough free golf weekends or Caribbean cruises to athletic directors to save its current sweetheart position.

Using traditional bowl sites to stage a four-team, three-game playoff makes little sense. It would allow third-party businesses to continue to profit off games that colleges can stage better on their own.

It also would force fans to make multiple trips to neutral locations, a cost-prohibitive move that could lead to empty seats. It would continue to stage games in some markets – particularly Phoenix and Miami – that are historically poor sports cities.

And maybe most important, it takes the biggest games away from the exceptional, historic and stirring on-campus environments and into mostly antiseptic pro stadiums.

Providing home-field advantage would reward the top two teams and maintain the importance of the regular season. It would result in sold-out stadiums (expect a 90-10 or 80-20 ticket split for the home team), revenue staying in-house and the economic impact benefiting college communities, not some far-off town.

“When did our job as a university become supporting the tourism industry in certain states?” West Virginia athletic director Oliver Luck has asked.

The bowl industry is a relic of an era when college football needed help promoting its sport and warm-weather cities needed tourists who could only get there by train and might be swayed to follow their team. It was born in the early part of last century.

It’s 2012. There are things called air travel and interstates, allowing for 100 ways to get from the Midwest to Florida every single day.

This also would create incredible inter-regional matchups in the game’s best settings: USC playing at Bryant-Denny Stadium? Oklahoma in the Horseshoe? Nebraska in the Swamp? Boise State at LSU’s Death Valley? Texas at Autzen? And so on. And so on.

Or would you prefer the Alamodome?

Would there still be complaining over who is No. 4 and who is No. 5? Of course. That’s always going to be the case, and it’s always a better battle than arguing who is No. 2 or No. 3.

“Four is better than two,” Michigan State AD Mark Hollis told The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Is there anyone who wouldn’t have enjoyed a Final Four doubleheader this past season of Andrew Luck and Stanford at LSU, followed by Oklahoma State at Alabama? Other than the guy the Fiesta Bowl is paying 600 grand to be executive director?

By advocating on-campus sites, the Big Ten is banking that its teams occasionally will finish in the top two and get to host. That means warm-weather opponents possibly having to deal with the winter elements. It also ends what the league considers (true or not) the unfairness of playing bowls on another conference’s turf.

Rotating the title game is a help to Midwestern cities with domed stadiums – Indy, Detroit and St. Louis, not to mention Dallas/Forth Worth, Atlanta and so on.

Now, is the fear of playing in the cold too much for the SEC or Pac-12 to support? It shouldn’t be. First off, under the current BCS standings, no Big Ten team would’ve hosted since Ohio State in 2007. It’s not as if it would happen all the time.

While the fear might be playing in ice and/or snow, the occasional Big Ten home game is more likely to be played under fine conditions.

This past season, the SEC would’ve hosted both semifinals – Stanford at LSU and Oklahoma State at Alabama.

That’s a decent tradeoff.

As for the other bowls, they’d go on as they do now, with no bearing on the national championship. The Rose Bowl likely would go back to only Big Ten and Pac-12 teams (if a conference representative is in the Final Four, the bowl would pick the next suitable league team).

This is better for fans. More excitement. Superior venues. Added intrigue. And a regular season where more games matter.

No matter what, the playoff is coming. The debate is over. Even Delany understands that. It’s time to formulate the best possible plan.

The Big Ten proposal may not be as big or as bold as some would like, but with the sport’s great politician pushing, it’s bigger and bolder than many ever expected.

Dan Thompson
2/7/2012, 08:06 PM
I'm sorry I fell asleep reading that. He should just get to the point.

ashley
2/7/2012, 08:08 PM
4 teams, the Presidents will no agree to more. I like this.

jumperstop
2/7/2012, 08:28 PM
4 or 8 teams would be as many as I would like. The only difference for the Big 10 would be now instead of getting screwed out of a bid to the BCSCG, they would be screwed out of a playoff invite, or more likely just getting upset in the first round.

8timechamps
2/7/2012, 08:30 PM
16 Teams is the ideal playoff, but any playoff is a start!

LASooner
2/7/2012, 08:35 PM
I like the idea of a 4 team playoff with the first rounds on campus, but what irritates me about this, is this is not a new idea. We seen it posted and heard it said a million times before, but because Jim Delany is mildy, tentatively acknowledging it might be a good idea, it's suddenly going to happen?

8timechamps
2/7/2012, 08:37 PM
I like the idea of a 4 team playoff with the first rounds on campus, but what irritates me about this, is this is not a new idea. We seen it posted and heard it said a million times before, but because Jim Delany is mildy, tentatively acknowledging it might be a good idea, it's suddenly going to happen?

Agreed. What makes Delany the mouthpiece when it comes to playoff matters? All of a sudden, there's interest because Delany changed his mind. Funny, he was one of the staunchest supporters of the BCS.

LASooner
2/7/2012, 08:53 PM
Funny, he was one of the staunchest supporters of the BCS.

That in and of itself should punctuate he's either an idiot, or a liar and not really worth listening to.

SoonerMarkVA
2/7/2012, 09:07 PM
You should have at least 8, and frankly 16 is ideal. At least with 8, I don't think there's really any argument that the best team in the country is not one of the 8. With 4, while better than now, it still leaves that possibility. And a football "Sweet 16", with home games for the higher seeds until the final, would be 4 weekends of pure awesomeness. 16 leaves the door open for the mid-majors to get some teams in and either put up or shut up.

8timechamps
2/7/2012, 09:14 PM
You should have at least 8, and frankly 16 is ideal. At least with 8, I don't think there's really any argument that the best team in the country is not one of the 8. With 4, while better than now, it still leaves that possibility. And a football "Sweet 16", with home games for the higher seeds until the final, would be 4 weekends of pure awesomeness. 16 leaves the door open for the mid-majors to get some teams in and either put up or shut up.

That's exactly how I feel. Well said.

Four is a major improvement on what's in place now, but still leaves too much room for potential championship-caliber teams to be left out. If we're going to have a playoff, then lets go all the way and have a 16 team playoff!

LASooner
2/7/2012, 09:26 PM
I like 8 as well. And anyone who feels that 8 teams would cheapen the regular season, doesn't understand percentages. 112 teams don't get to play. Seems like every game would still count

rekamrettuB
2/8/2012, 09:23 AM
Wow...somebody has an idea for a playoff? Huge news!

badger
2/8/2012, 10:27 AM
If they had a 16-team playoff, they might be able to save the little conferences from their defection-happy schools jumping ship to the big boys.

Consider the possibly of giving every football conference an auto bid to what could affectionately be know as the "Little Dance" or "December Madness." Everyone from SEC to the Sun Belt gets at least one bid to the 16-team playoff, with a few at-large bids to the next-best teams from these conferences that have more than one championship-caliber team.

Another possibility, since a lot of these little conferences are consolidating anyway, is a format similar to the NFL, where 12 teams are invited, with the top teams getting a first round bye.

Some might thumb their noses at the idea of a Sun Belt team getting an invite to a championship competition over the fifth-best SEC team, but conferences have maintained that they want the regular season to be as relevant as ever, so what better way to make it stay relevant than saying "The only way you are guaranteed to be included in the national championship discussion is to win your conference."

Lott's Bandana
2/8/2012, 10:42 AM
Agreed. What makes Delany the mouthpiece when it comes to playoff matters? All of a sudden, there's interest because Delany changed his mind. Funny, he was one of the staunchest supporters of the BCS.


Because, for a multitude of complicated reasons, Jim Delany is the most powerful man in college athletics. And has been the "Dear Leader" for some time.

SoonerTerry
2/8/2012, 10:46 AM
“It’s a matter of coming up with something that does not kill the baby with the bath water,” Delany told the Tribune’s Teddy Greenstein

WTH?!?

SoonerMarkVA
2/8/2012, 11:01 AM
You haven't heard? It's an epidemic, really--killing bathwater is running rampant!

Mississippi Sooner
2/8/2012, 11:02 AM
What? Like any of you haven't killed a baby with bath water before?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/8/2012, 11:13 AM
I like 8 as well. And anyone who feels that 8 teams would cheapen the regular season, doesn't understand percentages. 112 teams don't get to play. Seems like every game would still countXactamundo. An 8 team playoff would be ideal. Any more WOULD cheapen the season, like it does in the NFL.

Dio
2/8/2012, 12:15 PM
Oklahoma in the Horseshoe?

Uwe says yes!

goingoneight
2/8/2012, 12:55 PM
Why do we even have conferences if all we're ever going to do is have a popularity contest?

Curly Bill
2/8/2012, 12:58 PM
Wow...somebody has an idea for a playoff? Huge news!

This ^^^^

soonertravis
2/8/2012, 01:42 PM
Agreed. What makes Delany the mouthpiece when it comes to playoff matters? All of a sudden, there's interest because Delany changed his mind. Funny, he was one of the staunchest supporters of the BCS.

The article is written by Dan Wetzel who wrote Death to the BCS, a fabulous look at the current system if you haven't read it, and by his account Delaney sealed the fate of the play-off the last time this issue arose. Mike Slive of the SEC was ready to move to a play-off and the Big10 fought it. He hooked in the Big 12 and other to block the play-off and it turns out cut off the flow of cash to the Big 12 that could have resulted from putting several tems into the play-off over the last several years. It deeply wounded the Big 12 and all but killed the Big East.

That DElaney might now support a play-off is a huge step in getting us toward a play-off. He is in a position to influence the process and can hopefully begin us on the path toward a 16 team play-off.

Curly Bill
2/8/2012, 01:45 PM
OMG! I can't wait for the world to be a so much better place because we have a college football playoff! As I look outside I think I can even see the sun peeping out from behind the clouds, and wait...is that angels I hear singing?!?!

StoopTroup
2/8/2012, 02:37 PM
I'm for it as long as we get rid of the OU Fexas Game in Dallas and put it back where it should be....a Norman /Austin Game. If the Cotton Bowl wants to exist they need to bid for a National Championship Game. I hate knowing that Fexas gets a bunch or OU Fans money every year.

We should play in Oklahoma every other year so that money is poured into our economy instead of Dallas.

Getting rid of all these games that seem to be negotiated because they will be played at Jerry World or some Pro Venue needs to be stopped. The money needs to be taken in by College Campuses and strictly played in college Venues.

TheUnnamedSooner
2/8/2012, 02:37 PM
16 teams are too many and would definitely take away from the regular season. Anyone who thinks that the #16 team deserves a shot at the title should have their head examined. There is so much disparity from the #1 and #16 team. OU was ranked #14 in the final BCS with 3 losses. I don't care how crimson colored my glasses are, the Sooners did not deserve a shot at the title and neither did anyone else ranked anywhere near them. 4 teams I think is fair, but when you start talking about 8 or 16, I believe it does take away from what the top few teams accomplished.

8timechamps
2/8/2012, 02:37 PM
The article is written by Dan Wetzel who wrote Death to the BCS, a fabulous look at the current system if you haven't read it, and by his account Delaney sealed the fate of the play-off the last time this issue arose. Mike Slive of the SEC was ready to move to a play-off and the Big10 fought it. He hooked in the Big 12 and other to block the play-off and it turns out cut off the flow of cash to the Big 12 that could have resulted from putting several tems into the play-off over the last several years. It deeply wounded the Big 12 and all but killed the Big East.

That DElaney might now support a play-off is a huge step in getting us toward a play-off. He is in a position to influence the process and can hopefully begin us on the path toward a 16 team play-off.

I read Wetzel's book. In fact, I was anti playoff until I read it.

What's happening (IMO) is that money has become such a huge factor (well, money and ESPN) that the pressure is on. Conferences are cannibalizing each other and Delany knows the Big 10 has to do something to stay relevant in the long run.

8timechamps
2/8/2012, 02:38 PM
The article is written by Dan Wetzel who wrote Death to the BCS, a fabulous look at the current system if you haven't read it, and by his account Delaney sealed the fate of the play-off the last time this issue arose. Mike Slive of the SEC was ready to move to a play-off and the Big10 fought it. He hooked in the Big 12 and other to block the play-off and it turns out cut off the flow of cash to the Big 12 that could have resulted from putting several tems into the play-off over the last several years. It deeply wounded the Big 12 and all but killed the Big East.

That DElaney might now support a play-off is a huge step in getting us toward a play-off. He is in a position to influence the process and can hopefully begin us on the path toward a 16 team play-off.

I read Wetzel's book. In fact, I was anti playoff until I read it.

What's happening (IMO) is that money has become such a huge factor (well, money and ESPN) that the pressure is on. Conferences are cannibalizing each other and Delany knows the Big 10 has to do something to stay relevant in the long run.

TheUnnamedSooner
2/8/2012, 02:47 PM
I like 8 as well. And anyone who feels that 8 teams would cheapen the regular season, doesn't understand percentages. 112 teams don't get to play. Seems like every game would still count

This would make sense if the talent level was equal among the 120 teams. In your typical season, lets say the top 30 preseason teams have a legit shot of making it to the top 8 (this is giving a shot to 5 surprise teams that aren't on any preseason polls). Those 30 are the ones that each game during the regular season matters. So in reality, you have 30 teams trying to get into those 8 spots instead of 120. That makes only 22 that won't make it (26% of the contenders will make it), so yeah, I think an eight team playoff would take away from the regular season. Also, I've been told I understand percentages.

8timechamps
2/8/2012, 02:52 PM
16 team playoff. Figure it however you like (top 16 in the BCS, conference champions plus at-large, etc). All games (except for the championship game) are played at the better seeded team's home field. The championship game moves every year (just like the Superbowl).

Keep some of the bowls that people will watch, but do not use the bowl system with the play-offs. Get rid of some of the bowls that nobody watches anyway.

I really don't see the problem.

Scott D
2/8/2012, 03:15 PM
Agreed. What makes Delany the mouthpiece when it comes to playoff matters? All of a sudden, there's interest because Delany changed his mind. Funny, he was one of the staunchest supporters of the BCS.

Because if there is/was ever going to be a playoff, it was going to have to go through Delany. I'll give the guy credit, everything he does is looking out specifically for the Big-10's interests. And quite honestly, I think the only reason you're seeing this support from him now is because of the opportunity to return the Rose Bowl to it's Pac-12/Big-10 exclusivity on a permanent basis. It's also a bully move against Notre Dame.

Curly Bill
2/8/2012, 03:21 PM
16 team playoff. Figure it however you like (top 16 in the BCS, conference champions plus at-large, etc). All games (except for the championship game) are played at the better seeded team's home field. The championship game moves every year (just like the Superbowl).

Keep some of the bowls that people will watch, but do not use the bowl system with the play-offs. Get rid of some of the bowls that nobody watches anyway.

I really don't see the problem.

Funny how no one sees the problem with their preferred playoff scenario. LOL

8timechamps
2/8/2012, 03:52 PM
Because if there is/was ever going to be a playoff, it was going to have to go through Delany. I'll give the guy credit, everything he does is looking out specifically for the Big-10's interests. And quite honestly, I think the only reason you're seeing this support from him now is because of the opportunity to return the Rose Bowl to it's Pac-12/Big-10 exclusivity on a permanent basis. It's also a bully move against Notre Dame.

My opinion of Delany is the same opinion I have of Tom Brady, I can't stand the guy, but I respect him.

8timechamps
2/8/2012, 03:53 PM
Funny how no one sees the problem with their preferred playoff scenario. LOL

That's because MY playoff system is PERFECT! :)


Seriously though, I really don't know the downside to any playoff system.

StoopTroup
2/8/2012, 04:06 PM
There's no downside to this year's BCS as long as any Conference with a Conference Championship isn't allowed to play anyone within their Conference for the BCS National Championship.

ouwasp
2/9/2012, 12:23 AM
Waxing wistful... I'll be 49 next month. I wonder if I'll live long enough to see an 8-team playoff? I've always considered that to be the "right" number. Most yrs OU would be in the hunt. There would still be room for the irritating-media-darling types. That would be so much fun.

Don't know about the Rust Belt schools hosting games though. I thought KC in December, at night, was retarded. What would Madison be like?

SoonerMarkVA
2/9/2012, 10:19 AM
Don't know about the Rust Belt schools hosting games though. I thought KC in December, at night, was retarded. What would Madison be like?

I guess if Green Bay can host playoff games, it won't be any worse. There's something about bitter game conditions that really reduces the contest to one of toughness. That appeals to me, for whatever reason.

8timechamps
2/9/2012, 02:25 PM
I guess if Green Bay can host playoff games, it won't be any worse. There's something about bitter game conditions that really reduces the contest to one of toughness. That appeals to me, for whatever reason.

Me too. As a fan, sitting in 10 degree weather wouldn't be the ideal environment, but sitting in 10 degree weather in Norman for a playoff game would be.

soonercoop1
2/9/2012, 04:14 PM
You should have at least 8, and frankly 16 is ideal. At least with 8, I don't think there's really any argument that the best team in the country is not one of the 8. With 4, while better than now, it still leaves that possibility. And a football "Sweet 16", with home games for the higher seeds until the final, would be 4 weekends of pure awesomeness. 16 leaves the door open for the mid-majors to get some teams in and either put up or shut up.

I agree that 8 teams would be the bare minimum to get rid of the "MNC" towards a true NC...I could see 3 games with the NC but 4 might be pushing it...maybe give the final 2 a 2 week break before the NC with the other bowls played in that time spot...

jkjsooner
2/9/2012, 04:55 PM
Why do we even have conferences if all we're ever going to do is have a popularity contest?

All we have is a popularity contest now. How would this change anything?

You obviously don't understand why conferences exist. Their existence has nothing to do with playoffs or even the NCAA. They exist because they help schools with scheduling and revenue generation.


Anyway, I like it that Delaney wants the championship site to be moved around. I said long ago that the Big 12 and Big 10 commissioners need to throw a fit about having no regional representation in the title games. It sounds like they've finally gotten sick of it.

Sooner5030
2/9/2012, 07:11 PM
32 out of 110 seems like a good post season number

just go full blown playoff please.

soonertravis
2/13/2012, 04:24 PM
16 teams are too many and would definitely take away from the regular season. Anyone who thinks that the #16 team deserves a shot at the title should have their head examined. There is so much disparity from the #1 and #16 team. OU was ranked #14 in the final BCS with 3 losses. I don't care how crimson colored my glasses are, the Sooners did not deserve a shot at the title and neither did anyone else ranked anywhere near them. 4 teams I think is fair, but when you start talking about 8 or 16, I believe it does take away from what the top few teams accomplished.

Except that under Wetzel's plan, there are only 5 at large teams. His argument is that allowing home games and games against lower level conference champions is the reward for a great regular season. It also makes more games relevant at the end of the season. Now once a team loses they are effectively eliminated unless they are a brand name school. This keeps those teams playing. It also gives the lower conferences a chance at the play-off and no one can argue that the play-off excludes teams based solely on their league.

I too was opposed to the play-off until I read the book. It is very logical and he makes some great points.

jkjsooner
2/14/2012, 10:03 AM
OMG! I can't wait for the world to be a so much better place because we have a college football playoff! As I look outside I think I can even see the sun peeping out from behind the clouds, and wait...is that angels I hear singing?!?!

What is this comment supposed to mean? Who said the world would be such a better place and the angels will sing? Nice straw man.

This is nothing but a meaningless comment meant to dismiss and ridicule the original idea.

Curly Bill
2/14/2012, 10:24 AM
What is this comment supposed to mean? Who said the world would be such a better place and the angels will sing? Nice straw man.

This is nothing but a meaningless comment meant to dismiss and ridicule the original idea.

No getting anything by you! LOL

...and thanks!

rekamrettuB
2/14/2012, 11:28 AM
It also makes more games relevant at the end of the season.

And at the same time makes the earlier games less relevant. It's the same in any other regular season. Games 1-140 in MLB baseball seem pointless until the playoff race shapes up. Even tho game 1 and 166 (or however many they have) all count the same, they don't feel the same to fans and players.

jkjsooner
2/14/2012, 01:27 PM
And at the same time makes the earlier games less relevant. It's the same in any other regular season. Games 1-140 in MLB baseball seem pointless until the playoff race shapes up. Even tho game 1 and 166 (or however many they have) all count the same, they don't feel the same to fans and players.

It's a tradeoff. But keep in mind we're talking about a system where many teams (non major conference teams) still must go undefeated and many major conference teams can have at most one loss. Let's not get carried away with the MLB and NFL comparisons.

Since this is a thread about a proposed 4 team playoff, let's assume that is the case and look at OU's season. The games leading up to Texas Tech would have been just as important as there was no guarantee that we would make a playoff with a single loss. After Texas Tech the games would have still had national title implications. Most likely, winning out would get us there but again it wouldn't have been a guarantee.

I can't see a 4 team playoff having any serious impact on the meaning of the CFB regular season. I think the only games that would have lost relevance were the last couple of LSU games. Even then, if LSU layed an egg against Arkansas they may have been excluded.

8timechamps
2/14/2012, 04:36 PM
And at the same time makes the earlier games less relevant. It's the same in any other regular season. Games 1-140 in MLB baseball seem pointless until the playoff race shapes up. Even tho game 1 and 166 (or however many they have) all count the same, they don't feel the same to fans and players.

There is some truth to this, but it is different in college football. Ask any fan of a D2 (FCS) or D3 team if the regular season games don't feel "right" because the playoff picture hasn't been put into focus. Their answer would be "no".

College football is what it is because of the atmosphere and environment that surrounds it. It makes it completely different than any other sport, and none of that would be lost with a playoff.

People that oppose a playoff are afraid of change. Most of them aren't sure what their opposed to, they just know their opposed to change (although they may not readily admit that).

As a Sooner fan, I'd think every fan out there would want a playoff, because we are one of the very few schools that would be in it almost every year.

Scott D
2/14/2012, 06:53 PM
There is some truth to this, but it is different in college football. Ask any fan of a D2 (FCS) or D3 team if the regular season games don't feel "right" because the playoff picture hasn't been put into focus. Their answer would be "no".

The opinion of hundreds of fans is inconsequential. That's like asking the fans and alumni of schools that can only do 7 on 7 football to weigh in on larger schools/divisions that can field 11 to a side.