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okie52
1/25/2012, 04:06 PM
Mexico's national voter IDs part of culture


By David Agren,, Special for USA TODAY

Mexicans recently flocked to modules run by the country's electoral institute in order to renew voter credentials.

But voting was not the main reason she was getting it. The free photo ID issued by the Federal Electoral Institute had become the accepted way to prove one's identity — and is a one-card way to open a bank account, board an airplane and buy beer.

Voting was almost an afterthought to Martínez.

"They ask for it everywhere," she said. "It's very difficult to live without it."

National IDs for voting, or proving citizenship, is an idea that is being floated in the United States to crack down on voter fraud, illegal immigration and foreign terrorists.

Proponents, such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform, say it is an efficient way to verify identities and prevent crime. Opponents, such as the American Civil Liberties Union, describe it as an invasion of privacy. Minority advocacy groups have even alleged that the cards would frighten minorities going to the polls.

But Mexico has not seen many problems with its card, and national identity cards have been issued for years in France, Poland, Singapore, Brazil, to prove citizenship.

Boosts country's democracy

Mexican officials unveiled the voting ID two decades ago to properly identify electors in a country with a history of voters casting multiple ballots and curious vote counts resulting in charges of fraud — most notoriously in 1988 when a computer crash wiped out early results favoring the opposition.

The credential proved so good at guaranteeing the identification of electors that it became the country's preferred credential, one now possessed by just about every adult Mexican. Its widespread acceptance deepened democracy, too, by giving credibility to the Federal Electoral Institute, analysts say. The agency was created as an independent agency to oversee federal elections.

"It's a very important prop for support of that institution," said Federico Estévez, political science professor at the Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico. "What people really know about (the electoral institute) is the card."

The card must be renewed every 10 years. This meant thousands of Mexicans whose cards were expiring had to apply for a new one prior to Jan. 15 if they wanted to vote in the July 1 presidential election, prompting long lines outside agency service centers.

People in the lines were clutching folders of documents needed for renewal: a birth certificate, another form of photo identification and a recent utility bill.

Unlike Mexico, whose voting rules are set by the federal government, the United States leaves many voting requirements up to individual states.

Minority groups say the requirements could diminish voter turnout and negatively impact the elderly, students and African-American and Latino voters who are less likely to have the required identification.

"The complaint is basically the requiring (of a photo identification) that not everybody has and creating an extra burden and cost to get that," said Lawrence Norden, deputy director of the democracy program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University's law school.

Some U.S. states, including Texas and South Carolina, approved laws last year requiring voters to show a government photo identification prior to voting. The U.S. Justice Department rejected the law, saying it discriminates against minorities.

South Carolina's attorney general's office said there is no evidence that has ever happened in other states that require voter IDs. Citing the cards' necessity to safeguard the integrity of elections, the state argued in a lawsuit against Justice that of an estimated 239,233 registered voters with no appropriate photo ID, 37,000 were deceased and 91,000 no longer lived in South Carolina.

The debate also has national security implications. Improved identifications were recommended by the 9/11 Commission given that the hijackers had driver's licenses or state non-driver's identification cards that they used to rent apartments, open bank accounts and board planes. Social Security numbers are often used as proof of eligibility to work, but illegal immigrants often use stolen numbers.

Carries tough rules

Mexico's voter ID has some key elements that make them acceptable to the public, say officials here. They cost nothing to obtain and the issuing agency operates hundreds of service centers nationwide, making requests relatively easy.

Though some U.S. states allow people to vote without IDs, Mexico makes no exceptions for individuals lacking the proper documents. The Federal Electoral Institute also refused to extend the registration period or grant an amnesty for those applying late, leaving more than a million people ineligible to vote.

"It is a matter that has to do with a culture of respect for the law," Francisco Guerrero, one of the nine commissioners on the institute, told the newspaper Reforma.

The agency makes no apologies for the tough rules or requiring photo identifications, given Mexico's history of troubled elections. "We started from such a point of distrust, especially in the electoral system," institute commissioner María Marván said.

"In order to strengthen democracy, we have to start believing in our own institutions. That's a big challenge in Mexico."

The card does not guarantee fraud-free elctions, however. During 71 years of uninterrupted Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) rule, which ended in 2000, electoral crooks known as Mapaches, or raccoons, went about stuffing and stealing ballot boxes. Stories also abound of PRI operatives plying poor voters with sandwiches and soft drinks and then escorting the recently fed to the polling stations.

"They asked for identification or they didn't and you voted as many times as you were told," said Jeffrey Weldon, director of the political science program at Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico.

Although the national photo ID was introduced to stop voter fraud, it has achieved much more, bolstering the credibility of elections and helping the poor, some say.

The IDs resolved a problem for many poor people "who previously had no way of being able to identify themselves," said Miguel Ángel Carlos, security committee coordinator at the Association of Mexican Banks.

There is one thing the cards do not do: inspire more confidence in candidates. Ana Martínez says that despite getting her new card, she probably won't use it to vote. "There's no candidate worth voting for."

Bourbon St Sooner
1/25/2012, 04:20 PM
So Republicans aren't the only ones trying to keep Mexicans from voting:D

badger
1/25/2012, 04:54 PM
This sounds like a perfect solution: Provide free government-issued ID cards to those that have no alternative form of identification.

I know some people hate government giving away free stuff, but we all know that they give away free stuff to everyone, so might as well make one of those things quite useful.

Midtowner
1/25/2012, 04:56 PM
This sounds like a perfect solution: Provide free government-issued ID cards to those that have no alternative form of identification.

I know some people hate government giving away free stuff, but we all know that they give away free stuff to everyone, so might as well make one of those things quite useful.

Didn't we just get through fighting like hell to keep from having a federal ID card?

okie52
1/25/2012, 05:00 PM
I don't remember fighting it. I don't know why I would fight it.

SoonerPride
1/25/2012, 08:11 PM
I don't remember fighting it. I don't know why I would fight it.

The religious right fought a national ID card saying it was "the mark of the beast."

As well, of course, a whole litany of opposition from the ACLU and libertarian groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#Controversy_and_opposition

SanJoaquinSooner
1/25/2012, 11:04 PM
I don't remember fighting it. I don't know why I would fight it.

You may not fight, but many groups do.

I think they worry that it will be used for gov't to track everything you do and build a profile on you.

They'll start requiring you swipe the ID for every transaction, movement, etc.

okie52
1/25/2012, 11:30 PM
You may not fight, but many groups do.

I think they worry that it will be used for gov't to track everything you do and build a profile on you.

They'll start requiring you swipe the ID for every transaction, movement, etc.

Sounds paranoid to me.

Whet
1/25/2012, 11:34 PM
Since each state has its own drivers license, they can also produce voter photo id cards too. To vote, you must present your state issued voter photo id card. How is this racist and how does requiring a potential voter show their state issued voter photo id prevent lawful voters from voting? - It doesn't, it prevents Democrat voter fraud, which they are well known, especially in the big cities of Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland.

badger
1/26/2012, 08:25 AM
The religious right fought a national ID card saying it was "the mark of the beast."

If anyone is worried about that, it's silly. A card is way different than getting a tattoo on your forehead or arm as mentioned in the book of Revelations.

SanJoaquinSooner
1/26/2012, 09:12 AM
Maria and I have voted by mail for many years. I hope no one moves to do away with absentee ballots. I guess there's potential fraud though. Someone will probably argue that we might sell our ballots to illegal aliens or muslims.

Honestly, voter apathy appears to be a much bigger problem than voter fraud. I'll conjecture the most common voter "fraud" is when voters vote in a district in which they no longer live. Would voter ID cards prevent that?

Ton Loc
1/26/2012, 09:36 AM
You may not fight, but many groups do.

I think they worry that it will be used for gov't to track everything you do and build a profile on you.

They'll start requiring you swipe the ID for every transaction, movement, etc.

The gov't already tracks everything you do and has a profile of you. They don't need another photo id card to do that. Hell, they give you your first tracking card at birth. There is a file for every single person over the age of 18 that the FBI keeps. However, its really nothing exciting. Unless you owe them money, are costing them money, or you're a criminal.

It just seems like a total waste of money to me. Sorry, but if you don't have the cash for some sort of id, you don't get to vote.

SanJoaquinSooner
1/26/2012, 11:23 AM
The gov't already tracks everything you do and has a profile of you. They don't need another photo id card to do that. Hell, they give you your first tracking card at birth. There is a file for every single person over the age of 18 that the FBI keeps. However, its really nothing exciting. Unless you owe them money, are costing them money, or you're a criminal.

It just seems like a total waste of money to me. Sorry, but if you don't have the cash for some sort of id, you don't get to vote.


I think poll taxes were ruled unconstitutional awhile back somewhere around the 24th amendment. There would have to be some provision for no-cost cards.

virginiasooner
1/26/2012, 01:19 PM
The gov't already tracks everything you do and has a profile of you. They don't need another photo id card to do that. Hell, they give you your first tracking card at birth. There is a file for every single person over the age of 18 that the FBI keeps. However, its really nothing exciting. Unless you owe them money, are costing them money, or you're a criminal.

It just seems like a total waste of money to me. Sorry, but if you don't have the cash for some sort of id, you don't get to vote.

Frankly, I'm far more concerned about financial institutions and the supermarket down the street knowing my purchasing habits. They turn that information around and SELL IT. That causes the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. How do we know that the information is being handled securely?

The FBI does not keep a file on every American. They have a file on me, because I work for the federal government (and I'm here to help). Frankly, I'd be pissed off if they have files on any of my family members (other than former military), because there's no need. They are all upstanding citizens.

And as for no money-no ID, no vote, I don't think so. If state governments (and that's who runs elections in this country) want more voter participation, then the states need to make it easier to vote. And that includes things like free IDs (for people who don't/can't drive), easy absentee balloting, early balloting, and same-day registration. And people who are eligible to vote and don't should be fined.

Curly Bill
1/26/2012, 01:41 PM
Anyone who needs it made easier for them to vote, I don't really want voting.

SoonerPride
1/26/2012, 01:45 PM
Anyone who needs it made easier for them to vote, I don't really want voting.

of course you don't

Curly Bill
1/26/2012, 01:49 PM
of course you don't

You'd rather us make it easier for morons and losers to vote?

nm..of course you do.

SoonerPride
1/26/2012, 02:04 PM
You'd rather us make it easier for morons and losers to vote?

nm..of course you do.

hmmm, I am for the free exercise of the RIGHT TO VOTE by ALL citizens.

Regardless of whether they are idiots or brain surgeons.

Ton Loc
1/26/2012, 02:22 PM
Frankly, I'm far more concerned about financial institutions and the supermarket down the street knowing my purchasing habits. They turn that information around and SELL IT. That causes the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. How do we know that the information is being handled securely?

The FBI does not keep a file on every American. They have a file on me, because I work for the federal government (and I'm here to help). Frankly, I'd be pissed off if they have files on any of my family members (other than former military), because there's no need. They are all upstanding citizens.

And as for no money-no ID, no vote, I don't think so. If state governments (and that's who runs elections in this country) want more voter participation, then the states need to make it easier to vote. And that includes things like free IDs (for people who don't/can't drive), easy absentee balloting, early balloting, and same-day registration. And people who are eligible to vote and don't should be fined.

If you think the FBI doesn't have a file (electronic) on everyone over 18, then great. (but they do - hint: its in the same state as you) Edit: Also, you can request your file if you want.

I'm more worried about the stores than the government, too.

But if you can't vote because of lack of id, then you have bigger problems then voting. You have to earn the right/privelage to do everything else in this country. I know why voting gets a pass, but I don't agree with it.

Soonerjeepman
1/26/2012, 02:35 PM
If you think the FBI doesn't have a file (electronic) on everyone over 18, then great. (but they do - hint: its in the same state as you) Edit: Also, you can request your file if you want.

I'.

cool..that you can request it..I understand the need in today's world...how do I do that? besides just contacting the FBI..do you have any specifics? seriously want to do that...just to see...

Curly Bill
1/26/2012, 03:01 PM
hmmm, I am for the free exercise of the RIGHT TO VOTE by ALL citizens.

Regardless of whether they are idiots or brain surgeons.

That sounds really great and all, but too many idiots voting and not enough brain surgeons is what has us where we are.