Saban oversigns/reneges on offer yet again

[Herr Scholz]

Surprise! He managed to keep the kid from South Carolina and Georgia though. Great guy. And man, talk about selling ice to an eskimo, this kid apparently thinks Saban's looking out for him. And he flat out told him they're going to get him a job? Hmm... Just wanted to get the Sooner thoughts on this. #7 commit but he's #26 now?


Nick Saban to Atlanta RB: You can’t sign with Alabama until next year
11:56 pm January 15, 2012, by Michael Carvell

one of georgia’s top running backs said that was told by alabama’s nick saban this weekend that he will have to wait until next year to sign with the crimson tide.

Justin taylor of north atlanta high school has been committed to alabama for nearly a year, last february becoming the no. 7 pledge for this year’s class. The 5-foot-11, 208-pounder missed his senior season with a knee injury.

A couple of weeks ago, taylor and his high school coach, former nfl rb stanley pritchett, both said they were informed by alabama assistant chris rumph that it was likely that taylor would not be able to sign with the crimson tide this february.

Alabama’s 2012 recruiting class is currently ranked as no. 1 in the nation by rivals.com. Alabama has 27 commitments and is in the running for a few more elite prospects. The crimson tide is also accused of being one of the most frequent offenders in the practice of “over-signing” ? which is when a college signs more players than they have scholarships available. (click to go to website)

back to taylor: He took his official visit to alabama this weekend and had the chance to sit down for a face-to-face meeting with saban:

How did nick saban explain it to you? “coach saban said he wished he would’ve been able to tell me this in august instead of now. He said the only reason he can’t sign me is because he can’t sign 26 people. They can only sign 25 people. He said he was going to sign me with the next class. But he also said he would sign a piece of paper to show that they are keeping their word ? they are going to sign it and they want me to sign it to make sure i know i still have my scholarship.”

when did alabama first tell you that you couldn’t sign with them this february? “coach rumph actually told me about two weeks ago. Well, he called my coach, who told me, and then i called coach rumph. This weekend was the first time that they really broke it down like that. This was the first time i heard it from coach saban.”

what do you think happened? “coach saban just said i’m the 26th commitment. I would be the 26th signee. I guess he went and picked up somebody else. He said i make 26 and they only get 25. They talked about bringing me in next january.” [note: Alabama has 27 commitments]
what was your reaction? “i’m cool with it, as long as i get to alabama and play. And, as long as i have more time to recover and get solid.”

what will do you do this fall? “he said i’m going to stay in georgia. They are going to find me a job. I’m going to work. I’m going to physical therapy at least seven days per week. I guess i will work, go to physical therapy and get strong … i will come in with the class of 2013. I’ll get there with the early group so i can do winter workouts and spring football.”

what about this piece of paper that you said saban would sign? “coach saban is going to sign his name on a sheet of paper saying that i still have my scholarship. It was just for me. It’s to say they really still want me.”

what is the status of your knee injury from august? “i’m good right now. I’ve already had the surgery and everything. I’m running right now. They want me to be 100-percent healthy. They said it takes at least a year [to recover]. They said yeah, some can bounce back in 5-6 months. But the only people who bounce back in 5-6 months are the ones in college because there are on campus and they have that physician to be there seven days per week. I don’t have that. I only work out two days per week with my physical therapist.”

do you think you could play this fall? “i feel like i could play this fall.”
with saban saying you cannot sign with alabama this year, will that make you look at other colleges? “i’m going to go ahead and stick with alabama. I mean, i’m committed to them. They committed to me. They want me. I know they want me because that’s what they are telling me. If they didn’t want me, they wouldn’t let me keep my scholarship, they could’ve taken it when i first got hurt. If any other college wanted me, they would’ve hit me up. I haven’t really heard from anybody since the injury.”

what other schools were recruiting you the hardest? “tennessee came through and i only talked to them one time. They gave me a number and the number didn’t even work. There was south carolina and georgia. They both stopped talking to me because i was committed to alabama.”

http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2012/01/15/nick-saban-tells-star-atlanta-rb-to-wait-until-next-year-to-sign-with-alabama/

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Wow

[BoulderSooner79]

Read between the lines kid - Bama is committed to you for next year's class *if* you fully recover from your surgery and *if* someone better doesn't come along at RB that Saban wants more than you. No risk for Saban, tons of risk for you.

[PDXsooner]

Bottom line: he wasn't good enough. It goes both ways--kids give "verbal commitments"... Which mean nothing. It's like verbally paying someone back. Until the name is on the dotted line there is no agreement. This is like the first introduction to the real world. It's ridiculous to have kids verbally agree a year in advance.

As for the job, is that not legal? Can't coaches introduce players to people who might be able to employ them? I'm not sure where that line is. As long as he's legitimately working can't he get a summer job?

[LASooner]

They are going to find me a job.

'Going to'... not 'help'

That's kind of a big difference

[fwsooner22]

Happens all the time......Pretty much a gray shirt

[Sabanball]

NCAA by-law 13.2.3.3 After Completion of Senior Year. "An institution may arrange for employment or employ any pro- spective student-athlete (regardless of athletics award winner status), provided the employment does not begin prior to the completion of the prospective student-athlete’s senior year in high school."

The kid is accepting a gray shirt and is cool with it. Nothing to see here, folks. Next...

[Sabanball]

Read between the lines kid - Bama is committed to you for next year's class *if* you fully recover from your surgery and *if* someone better doesn't come along at RB that Saban wants more than you. No risk for Saban, tons of risk for you.

Not true. Under new ncaa rules covering grayshirting, the kid is not bound to us between now and Jan 2013 and can go elsewhere if he wants to--wait in line to play at Bama, or go somewhere else. It's his choice...

[Herr Scholz]

I guess it happens a lot in the SEC. This oversigning stuff just seems kind of shady to me. "We want you to come here unless we find somebody better before signing day..." South Carolina and Georgia stopped recruiting him with the Bama offer.

[LVSOONER15]

Sucks for that kid. I don't think he will ever see the field for Bama.

[Sabanball]

Like I said, the choice to delay his enrollment to next Jan or look elsewhere is HIS choice. He still has the promise of a scholly in Jan 2013. But looks like he's decided to shop around. Personally, I hope he reconsiders and decides to roll with the Tide again, considering the nature of his injury a yr of rehab wouldn't hurt and may actually help him, plus people put off going to college for 1 yr all the time--but whatever he ultimately decides to do I wish him well ...

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/rb_taylor_now_says_he_wont_sig.html

[tulsaoilerfan]

So the kid was the 7th to commit to Alabama but now that he's injured he all of a suddden becomes their 26th commitment? Yeah you stay classy Nick Saban

[rock on sooner]

Wow

I couldn't have said it better! How much longer can the SEC keep doing this??!!

If this were OU, handcuffs would be out and the perp walks would be on ESPN................

[8timechamps]

NCAA by-law 13.2.3.3 After Completion of Senior Year. "An institution may arrange for employment or employ any pro- spective student-athlete (regardless of athletics award winner status), provided the employment does not begin prior to the completion of the prospective student-athlete’s senior year in high school."

The kid is accepting a gray shirt and is cool with it. Nothing to see here, folks. Next...

In this case, I'll agree with you. The kid has plenty of time to sign with UGA if he still wants to. The fact that the kid decided to wait and possibly play for Bama is on him...not Saban...THIS time. :)

[Sabanball]

The kid really does need to gray shirt so he can fully rehab. Any program that needs to play a true freshman who is a year removed from ACL reconstruction has major problems, and I'm glad our coaches were honest with him.

[Herr Scholz]

Your coaches were absolutely not honest with him. They promised him a full ride starting this Fall and went back on their word. He could rehab while redshirting and get a start on his degree. But you're right, he could go elsewhere. Don't try to make Saban look like a man of his word on this though. That's ridiculous.

[TXBOOMER]

No problem with this...sounds like a grey shirt to me.

[8timechamps]

Your coaches were absolutely not honest with him. They promised him a full ride starting this Fall and went back on their word. He could rehab while redshirting and get a start on his degree. But you're right, he could go elsewhere. Don't try to make Saban look like a man of his word on this though. That's ridiculous.

Herr, if the kid had signed with Bama, I could understand your point. BUT, as of right now, this is on the kid. If he (or anyone guiding him) thought that something shady was up with Saban and Bama, there's plenty of time to commit elsewhere. I don't think, in THIS case, that this is anything that doesn't happen at most major schools.

[BoulderSooner79]

[/B]

Not true. Under new ncaa rules covering grayshirting, the kid is not bound to us between now and Jan 2013 and can go elsewhere if he wants to--wait in line to play at Bama, or go somewhere else. It's his choice...

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I meant the player is taking a big risk by staying committed without looking around. But just because he says he remains committed doesn't stop him from reconsidering.

[badger]

If there's anything good out of this, I guess its that at least he hadn't enrolled yet and its not signing day yet. At least he wasn't fully committed to Alabama and still has a chance to go someplace else.

This is not cool, regardless.

[Widescreen]

Like I said, the choice to delay his enrollment to next Jan or look elsewhere is HIS choice. He still has the promise of a scholly in Jan 2013.
What happened to his promise of a scholarship in Feb 2012? I don't think I'd trust Saban at this point.

[picasso]

Nick Saban has cool 80's hair.

[badger]

btw, look who's the guilty party in the Big 12:

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/zHaqro4xzF9HqoUQ7fVR7g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI5OA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusncaafexperts/116-Oversigning-Chart.jpg

Hmmm... [hairGel]

[badger]

The kid is accepting a gray shirt and is cool with it. Nothing to see here, folks. Next...

He apparently was cool with it, but is rethinking his coolness, heh:


"At first I was cool with it but the more I thought about it, the less I liked it," Taylor said. "I have already missed an entire season of football because of my injury. I decided I just can't miss another season. It's no hard feelings against Alabama but I just decided it's best for me if I go somewhere that I can be at least practicing with the team this year, even if I have to redshirt. I haven't talked to any other schools yet but I will start looking right now."

[8timechamps]

I guess I'm missing what is so wrong about this. The kid wanted to go to BAMA. If it was just about getting an education, he has other offers. Don't for a minute think that OU (or any other major program in the country) doesn't do similar things. Not the over-signing thing, but promising kids scholarships at later dates. Recruiting is a nasty business, and if you haven't read Meat Market: Inside the Smash-Mouth World of College Football Recruiting, should check it out if you're interested in what really goes on in recruiting.

[SoonernAR]

So a kid falls in his attractiveness to a university b/c of a injury? Whether you want to admit it or not, college football has been a business just as much a sport long ago. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[Scott D]

I don't have a problem with this. At least Saban told the kid the alternative option in regards to the scholarship. It wasn't that long ago that if a kid suffered an injury like this (or a broken leg), that even if a kid verballed somewhere a school would pull the offer. That's part of why LeSean McCoy ended up at Pitt after Miami (whom he verballed with), and other schools pretty much disappeared off the map after he broke his leg his senior year. There are countless other cases of a kid who got a knee injury and the calls and offers dried up (mainly before advances in knee surgery).

Nowhere does it say he has to agree to the greyshirting option, and obviously he's been thinking about it and is considering other options. The unfortunate part for him is that he's basically got two weeks to decide what he wants to do. If you want to fault Saban it's the fact that they could have informed this kid of the situation a couple of weeks earlier to give him an opportunity to take other visits without as tight a deadline.

[Chiliman]

So the kid was the 7th to commit to Alabama but now that he's injured he all of a suddden becomes their 26th commitment? Yeah you stay classy Nick Saban
Really. Saban is trash.

[Chiliman]

I guess I'm missing what is so wrong about this. The kid wanted to go to BAMA. If it was just about getting an education, he has other offers. Don't for a minute think that OU (or any other major program in the country) doesn't do similar things. Not the over-signing thing, but promising kids scholarships at later dates. Recruiting is a nasty business, and if you haven't read Meat Market: Inside the Smash-Mouth World of College Football Recruiting, should check it out if you're interested in
what really goes on in recruiting.
It happens in a few places. Primarily in the SEC. Think what you want but Stoops does not over sign. Guys like Ryan Reynolds and Austin Box would have been put on medical schollies by Saban.

[goingoneight]

It's a dirty world, recruiting.

If they want to wussify CFB with 85-man rosters to throw the stepchildren a bone, they need to dig a little deeper and catch stuff like this. I'd LOVE to see my son or daughter play for OU; but not if this were the case. I'd swallow my pride and wear orange if it meant them getting an education and a real opportunity elsewhere.

Besides, it's not like Georgia is a major step down from Bama. Not when most guys go from powerhouses to doghouses when something goes wrong.

[8timechamps]

It happens in a few places. Primarily in the SEC. Think what you want but Stoops does not over sign. Guys like Ryan Reynolds and Austin Box would have been put on medical schollies by Saban.

That's why I added "Not the over-signing thing" in my post. As Scott D said above, it's not as much an issue nowadays, but it was the standard practice in CFB for a long, long time (I'm talking about promising a kid a future scholly, not over-signing).

[8timechamps]

It's a dirty world, recruiting.

If they want to wussify CFB with 85-man rosters to throw the stepchildren a bone, they need to dig a little deeper and catch stuff like this. I'd LOVE to see my son or daughter play for OU; but not if this were the case. I'd swallow my pride and wear orange if it meant them getting an education and a real opportunity elsewhere.

Besides, it's not like Georgia is a major step down from Bama. Not when most guys go from powerhouses to doghouses when something goes wrong.

That's pretty much my stance on this. If the kid has had a life-long dream of playing for Bama, and wants to hold out hope that there will be a scholarship available in a year, great. If not, he had plenty of options.

One of the biggest problems in recruiting is the lack of guidance a lot of the recruits have. There's no real counsel available for them, and if they don't come from a family that can help them think through their decision, then good luck and hope you choose wisely.

Now, if you're a star QB in the college ranks and you want to know if you'll make 5 million a year or 2 million a year, then there are services to counsel you for that. An 18 year old that can't decide if he should play Xbox or text his girlfriend? Sorry, you're out of luck.

[OUTrumpet]

As a high school football coach in Texas, I absolutely DETEST gray shirting.

I've just seen some very negative aspects of it from the people it hits. I will never agree it is good for the students or their families. For many of the students and their families it is a huge gamble financially. One of my former students is a jr, has yet to receive any financial aid from LSU, is unable to transfer out, and his family is getting more and more in debt paying out of state tuition that they can't afford to pay back. All because he was promised time and time again that they would have a scholarship for him. Guess what, he's a senior next year and it's looking like they won't have one for him AGAIN.

For the program? As long as it's legal, take advantage of it would be the coach's standpoint. And Saban does to an extreme degree along with half of the SEC.

To defend greyshirting as a good practice I find detestable.

[8timechamps]

As a high school football coach in Texas, I absolutely DETEST gray shirting.

I've just seen some very negative aspects of it from the people it hits. I will never agree it is good for the students or their families. For many of the students and their families it is a huge gamble financially. One of my former students is a jr, has yet to receive any financial aid from LSU, is unable to transfer out, and his family is getting more and more in debt paying out of state tuition that they can't afford to pay back. All because he was promised time and time again that they would have a scholarship for him. Guess what, he's a senior next year and it's looking like they won't have one for him AGAIN.


For the program? As long as it's legal, take advantage of it would be the coach's standpoint. And Saban does to an extreme degree along with half of the SEC.

To defend greyshirting as a good practice I find detestable.
I coach HS ball in Colorado, and have seen this stuff affect kids (and their families) in the same way. Wouldn't you agree that a kid needs to make sure there is mutual interest regardless of injury before a kid publicly commits? We had a kid two years ago that committed to a PAC 12 school only to switch to Big 10 school a week before NSD. It enraged some people, but they didn't know the details of the offer. I'm not going to disclose all of that on an internet message board, but needless to say, "grayshirting" is sketchy at best. If I were in this kids ear, I'd tell him to commit to whomever will guarantee a scholarship NOW, not next year.

[kevpks]

To defend greyshirting as a good practice I find detestable.

That's what bugs me. People defend Saban by saying he is following the rules. It is possible to stay within the rules and abuse them at the same time and that is what is happening here. Every coach has to get creative at times to get within the scholarship limit, but using gray shirting as a deliberate strategy is despicable. Hopefully, some rule changes will scale back these abuses. For those who say the kids know what they are getting into--give it a rest. Many of these students are the first in their families to go to college and don't get the best guidance. They are confident in their abilities and have no doubt they'll get the scholarship. Saban and coaches of his ilk abuse that confidence and naivite in order to use an institution of higher learning as a semi-pro training camp.

[badger]

Take a look at this LSU scholarship offer letter:

http://www.qbforce.com/tate/offers/LSU_005.jpg

Take a look at tons more here. (http://www.qbforce.com/tate/offers/Offers.htm)

"I am offering you a full athletic scholarship to Louisiana State University."

That, to me, suggests no grayshirting, but an actual honest-to-goodness paid for education for at least the year you sign with the school. BUT, then you read on...

"Subject to availability and other variables"

BUT, no mention of grayshirt possibilities, but rather, admission to the university, NCAA Clearinghouse, and... what's this? "Ongoing evaluation process that all universities conduct?!"

I wonder if that means "We see if you actually suck and if you do, we're yanking your full ride." :(

[Herr Scholz]

Good for Taylor. Sounds like he's done trusting Saban.


BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- After being asked to delay his enrollment at Alabama until next year, previously committed running back Justin Taylor has decided to seek out another school to sign with in February.

Taylor, a 5-foot-11, 200-pound running back from Atlanta's Washington High School, told the Atlanta-Journal Constitution in an interview Sunday that he was still planning to sign with the Crimson Tide after head coach Nick Saban asked him to delay his enrollment until January of 2013, a process known as "grayshirting", due to Alabama having more committed recruits than the 25 they will be allowed to accept on National Signing Day. Taylor now says he has changed his mind.

"At first I was cool with it but the more I thought about it, the less I liked it," Taylor said. "I have already missed an entire season of football because of my injury. I decided I just can't miss another season. It's no hard feelings against Alabama but I just decided it's best for me if I go somewhere that I can be at least practicing with the team this year, even if I have to redshirt. I haven't talked to any other schools yet but I will start looking right now."

After suffering a torn ACL for which he underwent surgery in early September of 2011, Taylor missed his entire senior season at Washington. In his junior season, Taylor rushed for 11 touchdowns and over 1,500 yards.

"I am about a month and a half away from being fully healthy again," Taylor said of his injury. "There's really no reason I couldn't be working out and practicing with my new team by the time the summer starts. I am sorry it had to work out like this but I think it will work out for the best for everybody."

Taylor is rated a three-star prospect by 247Sports.com and is ranked No. 37 among running backs in the 2012 class.

[SoonerAtKU]

It sounds like as soon as the story went public, a large number of people and other schools jumped on this kid to get him in this year. I don't think these stories are going away any time soon, so every instance of any appearance of impropriety is going to be pored over by fans and other coaches. Good for them, if Saban is going to continue to skirt the issue, then you hit him where it hurts and you take away these options. Nothing anyone can do about getting rid of his terrible "medical" problem on the team. I swear, Tuscaloosa appears to be Beirut for as often as these bench guys get career-ending injuries just sitting around or in practice. Here's a wacky option, every time you have to use more than 2 medical scholarships in a year, you have to fire your entire training and medical care staff. Clearly they're not doing their job properly, preparing these guys for the rigors of football. Strength and Conditioning, too, they're a part of the problem.

[TUSooner]

The more I read about college football, the sleazier and more hypocritical it seems. (Which makes me appreciate the good guys like Bob Stoops.)

The bottom line is that college football has become the farm system for the NFL, which is not generally consistent with the idea of amateur college students playing sports for their schools. It would be less hypocritical if certain college football players -- many of them -- were regarded as employees of the university because, let's be frank, lots of college football players have no business being on a college campus as students because they are either too stupid or too ignorant or too uninterested in a college education. Problem is, we have accepted these dual contradictory roles for colleges and we don't know what to do about the cognitive dissonance. (I hope I don't misuse that phrase.)

A logical thing would be to have professional farm teams for future NFL players, but nobody gets even a teeny bit excited about minor leagues, so even the dumbest jocks do the college charade in order to get to the NFL (with very few exceptions).

The next most logical thing would be to stop the charade. Stop pretending that big-time college football is an amateur thing. Pay the players on a national scale, and make "pro athletics" a legitimate major, with courses on dealing with the business and social aspects of the thing. And instead of punishing players who talk to agents, include certified and vetted agent services as part of the "career counseling" program for athletes.

Thus, the real problem is not really the system, it's everyone -- especially the NCAA -- pretending that the system is something other than what it really is.

[Herr Scholz]

Stop pretending that big-time college football is an amateur thing. Pay the players on a national scale, and make "pro athletics" a legitimate major.
It's a nice idea but the problem is a vast majority of the 120 FBS schools wouldn't be able to afford this, only the big boy schools with large budgets. Unless you're just talking about reasonable stipends.

[badger]

It's a nice idea but the problem is a vast majority of the 120 FBS schools wouldn't be able to afford this, only the big boy schools with large budgets. Unless you're just talking about reasonable stipends.

Just think Herr, you could be sending the checks directly to the players instead of just installing jacuzzis and huge entertainment centers and surround sound systems in each of their dorm rooms. Then, perhaps, your football players would be more interested in getting season results that don't have the numbers "5" and "7" in them (sans bowl, yes) and less interested in "going to study in their dorm rooms," hehehehehe :D

(yes, I'm making sh!t up, but you have to wonder where the eff whorn is spending all of that money if it isn't in getting better results on the field).

[SoonerAtKU]

They DO have a very large video screen. That's probably a couple-hundy right there.

[PalmBeachSooner]

Read between the lines kid - Bama is committed to you for next year's class *if* you fully recover from your surgery and *if* someone better doesn't come along at RB that Saban wants more than you. No risk for Saban, tons of risk for you.

If the kid was offered a scholarship for the 2012 season and commited based on that offer, it's BS for Saban or any coach to pull that offer for their own convenience, unless something about the recruit significantly changed after the scholarship is offered that would make that player unable to perform.

[jkjsooner]

The kid really does need to gray shirt so he can fully rehab. Any program that needs to play a true freshman who is a year removed from ACL reconstruction has major problems, and I'm glad our coaches were honest with him.

Ever heard of a redshirt? It's where you give a kid a scholarship and he sits out a year.

Nice how you said he "needs to gray shirt" as if that is in his best interest when you darn well know that a redshirt would be in his best interest.


Saban's sleazyness really came through in this article. He said "we can only sign 25" which implies that before the rules changes he could give more than 25 scholarships.

Reading between the lines and taking Saban's history into account, it's clear that Saban would have signed this kid in years past without a single word to indicate that the kid would not actually receive a scholarship.

The good thing is that the SEC rules are finally having an impact. This kid had to be told before signing and he now has options.

I'm sure Sabanball will give Saban credit for telling the kid. He'll ignore the fact that Saban had no choice but to inform the kid as he simply could not sign him and the fact that Saban waited until the last minute to tell the kid.


Unfortunately, teams don't always have 25 scholarships available. If Saban has only 20 available, he'll still sign 25 and either get rid of guys who have been in the program or grayshirt some of the newbies.

[jkjsooner]

I don't have a problem with this. At least Saban told the kid the alternative option in regards to the scholarship.

Let's not give Saban credit here. He told the kid only because he had absolutely no choice and he waited until almsot signing day to tell him.

[badger]

Let's not give Saban credit here. He told the kid only because he had absolutely no choice and he waited until almsot signing day to tell him.

Agree. Last year, they would have signed 28 (the max allowed by the SEC before this new rule) on Feb. 1, then grayshirted at least three of the newbs to get down to the max allowed by the NCAA, 25, and if they had more than 85 scholarship players, they would have medical scholarshiped some, not renewed some, or grayshirted even more of the new signees.

I am HIGHLY curious about Oklahoma State signing as many as the SEC schools the past four years. I wonder what they'll do this coming signing day...

[TUSooner]

It's a nice idea but the problem is a vast majority of the 120 FBS schools wouldn't be able to afford this, only the big boy schools with large budgets. Unless you're just talking about reasonable stipends.

I would hope for "reasonable" stipends, but also would accept the fact that some of the 120 would opt out. Maybe they could form or join a "pure" college league. But I suspect that there's anough money to be made that most schools would participate. Anyway, do we need to keep running a corrupt masquerade just so more people can participate in it? That said, I do no pretenbd to have a perfect solution, I just think tere's got to be something better -- for the players -- than what we have now.

[MeMyself&Me]

The kid really does need to gray shirt so he can fullLy rehab. Any program that needs to play a true freshman who is a year removed from ACL reconstruction has major problems, and I'm glad our coaches were honest with him.

Loosing credibility as fast as a Bama fan counting championships...

Oh wait!

[badger]

I would hope for "reasonable" stipends, but also would accept the fact that some of the 120 would opt out. Maybe they could form or join a "pure" college league. But I suspect that there's anough money to be made that most schools would participate. Anyway, do we need to keep running a corrupt masquerade just so more people can participate in it? That said, I do no pretenbd to have a perfect solution, I just think tere's got to be something better -- for the players -- than what we have now.

I find it amazing if there's so much money to be made in football, why aren't there more professional leagues?

The fact of the matter is that the college brands are the money makers, not the athletes themselves. Stick a guy in an OU jersey and so long as he's not doing bad things off-field, we'll all cheer for him cuz he's a Sooner.

So, how reasonable of a stipend should be offered to college athletes? A scholarship. It's more than most people get and the ones that don't are in debt for 20 years after graduation (if they make it that far). A scholarship is waaaay more valuable now than it ever has been because of rising college costs. Time to promote the hell outta that value and stop trying to say that college athletes deserve even more because football is making soooooooooo much money. It isn't! College athletic programs mostly lose money! And what is the professional alternative if players whine that they deserrrrrrrve to be paid? The NFL, the CFL and Arena league. Go make your big boy bucks if you want in a pro league... and find out that there are waaaay fewer spots available for athletes to be paid in football than you thought, especially paid what you think you're worth.

[SoonerAtKU]

And what's this horse**** about signing a piece of paper that guarantees the kid a scholarship next year? There's no such thing, regardless of what it says on the paper. That's a blatant lie and misrepresentation of Saban's "promise" to get the guy in school next year.

Compare this with Stoops treatment of an invited walkon in Dom Whaley. He's promised nothing, except the chance to compete for a spot and to be evaluated at the end of the year for a potential scholarship if one is available. That's it, no guarantees, no phony "contracts" that are worth less than the paper they're printed on.

Saban's whole game is predicated on taking advantage of kids too stupid to realize they're being taken advantage of. Of course these guys all want to hear that they're special and that they're going to have the honor of playing for the By-God Crimson Tide. I wonder if Oversigning.com or another site will be able to accurately predict the number of scholarship players that leave the team this year in one way or another? Strange how they're able to do that just by applying math, and yet Saban will still claim public ignorance of his scholarship numbers.

[OUTrumpet]

The more I read about college football, the sleazier and more hypocritical it seems. (Which makes me appreciate the good guys like Bob Stoops.)

The bottom line is that college football has become the farm system for the NFL, which is not generally consistent with the idea of amateur college students playing sports for their schools. It would be less hypocritical if certain college football players -- many of them -- were regarded as employees of the university because, let's be frank, lots of college football players have no business being on a college campus as students because they are either too stupid or too ignorant or too uninterested in a college education. Problem is, we have accepted these dual contradictory roles for colleges and we don't know what to do about the cognitive dissonance. (I hope I don't misuse that phrase.)

A logical thing would be to have professional farm teams for future NFL players, but nobody gets even a teeny bit excited about minor leagues, so even the dumbest jocks do the college charade in order to get to the NFL (with very few exceptions).

The next most logical thing would be to stop the charade. Stop pretending that big-time college football is an amateur thing. Pay the players on a national scale, and make "pro athletics" a legitimate major, with courses on dealing with the business and social aspects of the thing. And instead of punishing players who talk to agents, include certified and vetted agent services as part of the "career counseling" program for athletes.

Thus, the real problem is not really the system, it's everyone -- especially the NCAA -- pretending that the system is something other than what it really is.

As long as it's in the rules, people will abuse it. Really needs the Ackbar "It's a trap" pic.

All it is is a way to prevent other teams from signing a player, nothing more. The student signs a binding agreement on NSD stating that they will only play football for the school they have chosen.

But the school is not required to do anything. They can cut the player for various reasons (discipline, financial, etc). They aren't required to give the student a scholarship. They can evaluate the player on a needs basis, which frequently happens in basketball. Oh, little Timmy point guard, we recruited past you, see ya! The student can chose to leave the university they have committed to, but they can't play football without the original team's consent, which many SEC teams won't allow.

During recruiting - oh, you're gonna be the man, you're definitely good enough, you'll definitely have a scholarship. You'll be able to make it to the pros.

A month later -- You can pay your own way and be treated like a walk-on here, or you can go somewhere else and call your football career quits. You chose.

[Mississippi Sooner]

When I was coming out of high school I couldn't take a chance on signing with a school and then have them not give me a scholarship. That's why I decided to walk on at East Central and join the frisbee football team. It worked out well.

[jkjsooner]

IThe fact of the matter is that the college brands are the money makers, not the athletes themselves. Stick a guy in an OU jersey and so long as he's not doing bad things off-field, we'll all cheer for him cuz he's a Sooner.

That first sentence is very true. That doesn't get mentioned enough when having these debates.

I'd say the second sentence is mostly true but not entirely. We would root for the guy but in the long run the brand would suffer if the team is not competitive. That's where I think the athletes deserve some credit. It's mostly about brand but the athletes have to maintain that brand.

But it is a relative concept. For the most part, we don't care about how great OU is in absolute terms as much as we care about how good we are compared to other Division 1 teams. If the NCAA instituted a rule tomorrow that all athletes must have scored at least a 24 on the ACT (or equivalent SAT) to become eligible, the quality of the play would suffer tremendously but we would only care about that a tiny bit. Mostly we'd be concerned with whether we beat Texas, won the Big 12, and competed for a national title.

If that happened, I'm sure you'd soon see some type of minor league football - either run by the NFL or some other organization. These minor league teams would probably stomp any college team but very few would care. Again, it's the brand.

It's no different than the CBA days. My guess is that these CBA teams would stomp most college basketball teams but we didn't flock to watch OKC play. Nope, we flocked to Stillwater and Norman to see our Cowboys and Sooners play.

[jkjsooner]

And what's this horse**** about signing a piece of paper that guarantees the kid a scholarship next year? There's no such thing, regardless of what it says on the paper. That's a blatant lie and misrepresentation of Saban's "promise" to get the guy in school next year.

I could not have said it better myself. That part really makes Sagan appear to be a major sleaze.

I'm pretty sure any kind of guaranteed promise with legal backing would be an NCAA infraction.


Edit: Saban not Sagan. You think Saban is smarter than Miles just wait until Sagan takes over.

[SoonerMom2]

Okie State is on that list -- only Big 12 school -- noticed that is being pretty much ignored. The rest of the Big 12 plays by the rules they agreed to as a gentlemen's agreement while OSU under Boone Pickens plays by the SEC rules. IMHO it taints OSU, their wins, and their integrity. Pretty bad when a school like OSU has to do this to get a good football team. Is it win at any cost at Pickens U?

[picasso]

oSu and taint are synonymous.

I know, I've been to Joe's Weekend.

[UberSooner]

Anybody says gray shirt is good for this kid is nuts. In school, he's got access to doctors, rehab, facilities and expertise. Out of school, its whatever insurance he's got and whatever workout he can put together. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with what Saban did other than not encouraging this kid to sign somewhere else. I'll be interested to know if this signed guarantee of scholarship ever materializes. They could have done that when the kid was on campus. I smell B.S.

[badger]

What really sucks is that I (and I think many Sooner fans) like Alabama's fanbase and program tradition and such. Tuscaloosa and Norman need to have a home-and-home again soon!

But this is just an icky situation that no program should want to associate itself with, especially publicly.

[SoonerAtKU]

Absolutely. My mom's side of the family is from tiny old Cullman, AL. My uncle did his dental school at Bama. I have a huge respect for that school, the traditions, and the success they've had. I think it's pretty awful that they're now lumped in with Saban and the rest of the SEC.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I wouldn't believe Saban if he told me the sky is blue and grass is green

[8timechamps]

Given the financial situation of most schools these days, paying players a competitive wage as athletes couldn't be done. As much as we all hate the NCAA, outside of professional athletics, it works to keep the playing field as level as possible for all involved better than any other sports entity. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't those that try to find every loophole in the rules and exploit them (via the "greyshirt").

The bottom line in all of this (as is the case with most in life) is money. While schools focus on education, money is what drives the bus, and football is the only moneymaker in college athletics (sans a few elite hoops programs).

Now, if there were only some way to raise revenue to a point that all D1 schools could make good money in football, then they could pay the players a stipend that makes sense (and do away with some of the sleaziness of CFB). Oh, I know....a playoff!

[OUTrumpet]

Given the financial situation of most schools these days, paying players a competitive wage as athletes couldn't be done. As much as we all hate the NCAA, outside of professional athletics, it works to keep the playing field as level as possible for all involved better than any other sports entity. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't those that try to find every loophole in the rules and exploit them (via the "greyshirt").
!

QFT. Too many athletic departments are in the red at this time. Not really feasible to dump a few hundred student athletes' paychecks on them.

Your big schools, like Texas, OU, USC, Florida, Ohio St, and so on wouldn't have a problem.

Close to home, KSU, KU, ISU, Tech, and Baylor would start having big financial difficulties.

[OUTrumpet]

Gotta love double posts.

[StoopTroup]

Polo and LaCrosse are huge Money Makers

[Jason White's Third Knee]

And what's this horse**** about signing a piece of paper that guarantees the kid a scholarship next year? There's no such thing, regardless of what it says on the paper. That's a blatant lie and misrepresentation of Saban's "promise" to get the guy in school next year.

I could not have said it better myself. That part really makes Sagan appear to be a major sleaze.

I'm pretty sure any kind of guaranteed promise with legal backing would be an NCAA infraction.


Edit: Saban not Sagan. You think Saban is smarter than Miles just wait until Sagan takes over.

Heh. Sagan.


The kid should have had saban sign that paper the year before.

[badger]

Heh. Sagan.


The kid should have had saban sign that paper the year before.

Not sure it would have been binding, since, you know, signing day is the first day you can sign anything :)

[PLaw]

They just give recruiting mulligans in the SEC.

Boomer.

[8timechamps]

Polo and LaCrosse are huge Money Makers

Don't forget hockey...even if most schools only have club teams, they fill the coffers EVERY year...without hockey, the Big XII schools would be bankrupt! :O

[badger]

Our rowing team makes so much money its in a national advertising campaign. :D

[TUSooner]

Our rowing team makes so much money its in a national advertising campaign. :D

My irony meter just blew up. Stop!!

[Scott D]

Now, if there were only some way to raise revenue to a point that all D1 schools could make good money in football, then they could pay the players a stipend that makes sense (and do away with some of the sleaziness of CFB). Oh, I know....a playoff!

Eliminate all other sports from their budgets and they'd be golden.

[badger]

Eliminate all other sports from their budgets and they'd be golden.

Maybe we could have mens football and womens football :D

[Herr Scholz]

Saban does it again. I guess at this point, if a kid believes Saban's word on a scholarship offer, it's all on them.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/texas/football/recruiting/player-Darius-Philon-104444


Nick Saban legitimately screws a commit today. This is per a Vigor High School Assistant Coach in Prichard, AL. Not my words, but the coaches description of the timeline.

June 2011
-Philon Camped at Alabama
-Bama initially offered with NO mention of greyshirting. Greyshirt NOT mentioned.

Late August 2011
Philon de-commits from Auburn
September 1, 2011
-Philon commits to Alabama
-Greyshirt NOT mentioned

Mid January
-Alabama Staff comes to Philon about potentially Greyshirting. They explain entire process to him
-Philon declines Greyshirt Offer
-Bama Staff is OK with him declining and he still has offer to enter with the Class of 2012 as a regular scholarship player

A Few Days Ago (Less than 1 week ago)
-Staff tells Philon he has to Greyshirt as they have oversigned
-Arkansas immediately offers him a scholarship when they hear he only has Bama Greyshirt Offer
-Tennessee, Florida, Clemson, and Ole Miss also begin recruiting him

Today, Signing Day-Kid shows up for Ceremony confused
-Heart is with Bama but he feels he has been wronged and misled by Staff
-Announces for Bama today at ceremony but doesn't sign LOI
-Leaves ceremony and goes into hallway where coaches find him crying, destroyed by what has transpired
-Philon decides to sign with Arkansas

[kevpks]

I'm no Arky fan but I hope Philon lights up Bama when he faces them.

[Eielson]

I was hoping that the Big 10 scholarship rules would hurt Meyer, but then I checked and found out that Meyer was one of the few respectable men from the SEC in this category.

[47straight]

I wouldn't want OU to win that way. It's just wrong.

[SoonerAtKU]

What a worthless jerk Saban is. I hope the kid scores 20 TDs in his career against the Tide.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I see that the majority of the big10 schools are offering 4 year schollys beginning with this class..I see how this will effect recruiting against some schools known for pulling guys scholarships after a year for performance issues and what players will want from coaches who are recruiting them...

[SoonerAtKU]

Every single down is a strip-sack returned for a TD. Not joking. I'd cry laughing.

[MeMyself&Me]

I see that the majority of the big10 schools are offering 4 year schollys beginning with this class..I see how this will effect recruiting against some schools known for pulling guys scholarships after a year for performance issues and what players will want from coaches who are recruiting them...

I don't think it will help recruiting much if at all. I think most kids will be of the mindset that it would never happen to them regarding pulled scholarships and greyshirting. The kids that this might effect/help are going to be the kids that aren't johnny five star and that have smart enough parents to know the difference between 4 year schollys and year to year schollys, who are also realistic about their kids potential, who also still have enough influence on the kids decision making, and are more interested in their kids education than athletics. How many kids are going to have that? Are these the kind of kids that tend to be difference makers on the field?

Instead, the schools implementing this limitation on themselves will be at just a bit more competitive disadvantage vs the schools that don't have this limitation which will cause these schools to lose more which will in turn hurt recruiting.

Rules like this need to be done at the NCAA level, not at the school or conference level.

[badger]

Is this really a reflection on Nick Satan, or is this a reflection on the fact that college football recruiting has become so competitive that coaches demand commitments from players early while promising commitments of scholarships early that neither side really can or should keep?

There's a signing day for a reason --- to allow ample time for coaches and players to recruit and visit. When coaches demand that players verbal immediately and not take other college visits, that kind of screws the player. When a player verbals or plays along on how committed he is to one school, and then starts taking visits and decommits on signing day to another suitor, that kind of screws the coach.

I am not saying that Nick Satan isn't evil or the devil or whatever for pulling a real scholarship offer and replacing it with a fake one (grayshirt = no scholarship money, no practice, no team participation for at least a year). I am saying that maybe the system is a bit broken and encourages, if not demands, screwjobs.

[TulsaSooners]

I don't think it will help recruiting much if at all. I think most kids will be of the mindset that it would never happen to them regarding pulled scholarships and greyshirting. The kids that this might effect/help are going to be the kids that aren't johnny five star and that have smart enough parents to know the difference between 4 year schollys and year to year schollys, who are also realistic about their kids potential, who also still have enough influence on the kids decision making, and are more interested in their kids education than athletics. How many kids are going to have that? Are these the kind of kids that tend to be difference makers on the field?

Instead, the schools implementing this limitation on themselves will be at just a bit more competitive disadvantage vs the schools that don't have this limitation which will cause these schools to lose more which will in turn hurt recruiting.

Rules like this need to be done at the NCAA level, not at the school or conference level.

You make excellent points. I thought that STEP made a good observation with a natural conclusion, but alas you are right that every kid will think that he is above having this happen to him. No matter how many stories like this that we hear (and I 100% agree that Saban is both morally and ethically wrong for stringing this kid along and potentially harming his future life prospects), the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of 18 year old kids who are superstars in their hometown will no doubt feel that they are all future starters at Alabama, and will continue to pledge their undying loyalty to them (while the reverse will never hold true).

[badger]

Perhaps the NCAA should start requiring a disclaimer with scholarship offer letters, similar to the government requiring a surgeon general's warning on cigarettes, or side effect info on medicine, or nutrition facts on food.

1- This scholarship offer letter is not a guarantee of a scholarship until a letter of intent is received and accepted by this school after National Signing Day.

2- Scholarships, in honored, are for a single year, renewable for up to four years.

3- A grayshirt is not a scholarship. It is a unpaid year of enrollment at a university where a student-athlete is not part of the team, is not allowed to be a part of team activities and the student's education will not be financed by the athletics department.

4- Just... have a backup plan, kid, especially if you're going to an SEC school.

[OU_Sooners75]

All you need to know about this kid is in one sentence:

"I’m going to physical therapy at least seven days per week."

I say kid, you should go more than 7 days per week!

[OU_Sooners75]

NCAA by-law 13.2.3.3 After Completion of Senior Year. "An institution may arrange for employment or employ any pro- spective student-athlete (regardless of athletics award winner status), provided the employment does not begin prior to the completion of the prospective student-athlete’s senior year in high school."

The kid is accepting a gray shirt and is cool with it. Nothing to see here, folks. Next...

He is not accepting a grey shirt.

Grey shirt he would be on campus attending school out of his own pocket (kind of like a walk-on). But he would not be part of the team at all...cannot workout with team or use team facilities (as part of the team).

However, this is what the guy said....


"They can only sign 25 people. He said he was going to sign me with the next class. But he also said he would sign a piece of paper to show that they are keeping their word ? they are going to sign it and they want me to sign it to make sure i know i still have my scholarship.”\

In other words, he is signing a letter of intent that is only good between Alabama and this kid.

Shady!!!!

And Sabanball, if this was continually happening somewhere else and Saban was not skirting the rules, you would have an issue with it too. But since it benefits in giving your pathetic program an essential farm...then who cares right..at least Bama is winning, right?


I cant wait until the filth of Saban is uncovered!