OSU "Elite" program?

[SoonerObsession]

Does one conference championship make a program "elite"? Seems to me that you would have to win at least 2 or 3 before you could boast that. No doubt OSU had a great season, but I have an acquaintance that thinks his Cowboys are an elite program now. Next year they will most likely be behind OU, Texas, West Virginia, KState, and TCU. I don't see them being back in the position they are in now for a few more years. The OU basketball team has had some success in it's history, but I never considered them to be an "elite" program. What do you guys think?

[mdklatt]

"LOL" is what I think.

[Therealsouthsider]

.... Yale has 14 Conference Championships and twice the Heisman trophies of osu, are they an elite program?

ss

[StoopTroup]

Elite refers to an exceptional or privileged group that wields considerable power within its sphere of influence. Depending on the context, this power might be physical, spiritual, intellectual or financial.

So as far as oSu is concerned.....they will never qualify as elite.

[mdklatt]

So as far as oSu is concerned.....they will never qualify as elite.

Never say never, but for now the only reason they can even see elite from Stillwater is because of our reflected glow.

[StoopTroup]

Never say never, but for now the only reason they can even see elite from Stillwater is because of our reflected glow.

OK....so for as long as I'm alive.....lol

[cccasooner2]

Lord, forgive me, but I am missing some orange and the seriousness of this post.

http://5.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tebowtime-300x229.jpg

[picasso]

Sam Mayes said they were. He mentioned the Pokes in the same breath as OU and Ohio State as football programs.
Serially.

[LVSOONER15]

In no way are they to be considered elite. Maybe a team on the rise but not even close to elite.

[mdklatt]

Sam Mayes said they were. He mentioned the Pokes in the same breath as OU and Ohio State as football programs.
Serially.

Well, they all have an "O" and a "U", but other than that I think he's due for a p*ss test.

[SoonerDood]

Sam Mayes said they were. He mentioned the Pokes in the same breath as OU and Ohio State as football programs.
Serially.
Sam Mayes is Robert Allen with more air time.

[8timechamps]

Whether a team is "elite" or not is determined by the success they have over a sustained period of time. I've already seen three pre-season rankings (which we all know are an educated guess) for next season, and OSU is only in one (and in the 20's). If they can replicate this season again next season, then they will show that they are a serious program that can win regardless of the athletes they have at the time. THAT's what makes a program "Elitle". If you rush the field after a big home win, then you are not an elite program.

[mdklatt]

The OU basketball team has had some success in it's history, but I never considered them to be an "elite" program.

You know, this is a good way to explain it to even the most clueless (i.e. almost all of them) aggy: OU is more an elite basketball program than oSu is an elite football program.

If you really want to shut them up (rhetorical question), then point out that OU is more an elite basketball program than oSu is an elite basketball program....

Aggies. ****.

[SOFSooner]

An elite football program has won at least one national championship, ask an aggie how close they have come to a national championship. They will mention this year, but the answer is 65 miles. They can drive that to Norman and look at the trophies OU has in their trophy cases:).

[OUmillenium]

April fools day is in...APRIL!!!!!!!!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

OSU had a very good football "team" this year, but their football "program" is not very good. You have to prove you can do it over the long haul, something they have yet to prove they can do. Mike Gundy is well on his way to doing that during his stay, but they'll only be good as long as he is at that dump as it will always be a stepping stone program regardless.

[stoopified]

Never say never, but for now the only reason they can even see elite from Stillwater is because of our reflected glow.Perfectly put.T.Boone State needs suststained excellence for about 20 years to even sniff elite status.

[SoonerDan1]

Sam Mayes is Robert Allen with more air time.

and with more hate

[MichiganSooner]

An elite program does it for years and years. They also sell out their own stadium and have a wait list for season tickets.

[sooneredaco]

No they are in no way elite

[badger]

Whenever a previously sucky Big 12 program starts to feel a little uppity in football, look no further for humbling than good ol' Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU.

1- Facility upgrade.

In recent years, the stadium complex has been the focus of major renovations with more than $30 million in improvements completed.

2- Nearly undefeated, top ten season
KU went 12-1 (7-1 in conference) and finished ranked No. 7 in both polls in 2007.

3- BCS bowl victory
KU defeated Virginia Tech 24-21 in the 2008 Orange Bowl.

4- NFL talent
Cornerback Aqib Talib was selected 20th overall in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft. A total of four KU players were drafted in the 2008 NFL Draft.

5- Rising star coach
Former KU head coach Mark Mangino had led KU to its second bowl victory (and third bowl appearance) after that Orange Bowl. Since taking the KU job, his first college football head coaching job (after being OU's offensive coordinator under Bob Stoops), KU was bowl eligible four of those six seasons.

6- Big money booster
Tom Kivisto co-founded SemGroup, L.P. in April 2000, which became one of the largest privately held companies in the United States. Kivisto was a member of KU’s 1971 and 1974 NCAA Final Four teams.

How everything fell apart:
1- Donations didn't continue.

Two of the most generous donors for Kansas Athletics Inc. in recent years did not fulfill their pledge for the past year, money that had been expected to help finance KU’s new football practice facility.
Link (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2010/jun/10/kivistos-fall-behind-donations-pledged-kansas-athl/)

2- Winning didn't continue.
KU had an 8-5 and bowl winning season to follow-up the Orange Bowl year, then had a 5-7 non-bowl season, going only 1-7 in Mangino's final year as KU head coach.

3- The ticket scandal

The director of ticket operations resigned Thursday morning from Kansas Athletics Inc. as a grand jury indicted her and four others for their roles in an alleged ticket scam prosecutors say cost the department up to $5 million during the past five years.

a grand jury in Topeka reviewed evidence from an ongoing federal probe addressing the diversion, theft and resale of tickets the university already has said involved more than 17,000 tickets for men’s basketball and more than 2,000 tickets for football.

4- Talent dropoff
KU followed up the Orange Bowl with only two four-star commits in 2008, according to Rivals. Its 2008-2011 recruiting classes, in the Big 12 alone, have ranked 7th, 4th, 8th and 6th. Keep in mind that there's fewer Big 12 teams than there used to be, also.

5- Coaching changes and admin buffoonery
I think looking back, we can all agree that KU athletic director Lew Perkins was the buffoon, not finger-poking Mangino. You can read the sad tale here. (http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/28676/mark-mangino-breaks-his-lengthy-silence) Perkins was the buffoon for many reasons, but in the context of this, let's go with the major ones: The ticket scandal was under his watch and he had the tendency to sign coaches without buyouts written into contracts. Both Mangino and Gill got out of KU coaching with more money because of it, likely setting KU football back even further.

6- Booster shenanigans
SemGroup filed for bankruptcy in 2008. It was sad all around for the Tulsa community. You never would have known that the company was headed downhill up till bankruptcy day. In a nutshell, Kivisto bet on the market going the opposite way that it did and as an end result, bankruptcy.

It filed for bankruptcy protection this week after losing more than $2.4 billion on energy contracts it had entered into.
Link (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121694304791582857.html)

So anyway, as fast as a program rises in college football, it can also fall. Sustained success, even at a modest rate as opposed to a quick rise even higher, is better in the long run, because the higher you rise, the higher you fall. If you need more proof, check out the team's fanbase I lampooned weekly in the college football meltdown thread. Poor jayhawks.

[rekamrettuB]

If Ok State is an "elite" football program, then so are the following:

VaTech
WVa
Stanford
Auburn
Boise St
Utah
Iowa
Tennessee
TCU
Louisville
Washington

All these teams have done as much or more than Ok State has since 1998. Make room Bama, OU, USC, Notre Dame, Michigan. The elite teams are a plenty.

[Flying Scotsman]

Only 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 ...% of all sheep believe OSU is an "elite" football program.

[SoonerSpock]

Sam Mayes said they were. He mentioned the Pokes in the same breath as OU and Ohio State as football programs.
Serially.

Sam Mayes sees the world through orange colored glasses. OSU was a top 3 program in the country in 2011 and have been headed upward as a program for the last 5-6 years. But to be a program on par with tOSU and OU they need to win at least a third of the conference championships they participate in for at least a decade and a national championship every 10 years or so.

Look at the pukes after another 3 years and see if they have any more conference championships. Doubtful but yet to be determined. For certain OSU has elevated itself to being a conference championship contender over the last 3 years but they are yet to sustain their championship status.

It would be a much better argument that the pukes were approaching the whorns as a program and that to will be clarified in 2-3 more years.

[cccasooner2]

Only 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 ...% of all sheep believe OSU is an "elite" football program.

A pi in the sky dream?

[setem]

Sam Mayes said they were. He mentioned the Pokes in the same breath as OU and Ohio State as football programs.
Serially.

Sam Mayes is the biggest jerkoff I have ever heard! He calls people out on the radio like he really wants to fight them! OKIE SHORE!

[champions77]

The really pathetic thing in all of this is that I know for a fact, that Gundy and his staff preach their football "tradition" to coaches they interview for positions at osu, as well as recruits. I have heard countless times a recruit make mention of osu's "tradition". There is little doubt that those statements are a product of the indoctrination of recruits during their visit. Hey tell these naive kids that osu has tradition, and most will assume it as being true.

This effort to make themselves into a football rich tradition is a feeble and disingenious attempt to mask a history that is largely devoid of any meaningful tradition, at least as to team accomplishments. Having their first undisputed Conference Championship in more than sixty years is a fact. Being in 72nd place in overall winning percentage at .50318 with only 7 wins more than losses, 530-523...is a fact. Compared to OU? OU is in third place overall in winning percentage at .73138 and has won 514 more games that we've lost, 821-307.

So osu, congrats on a really great season. But that's what it is, a great season. Please do not cheapen the accomplishments of the truly great football traditions over the last 60 years by attempting to place yourself in the same category. Build yourself a trophy room that is for football accomplishments only, instead of mixing football in with all of your sports...and then fill it up... and then maybe we can have this discussion again.

[badger]

I have heard countless times a recruit make mention of osu's "tradition". There is little doubt that those statements are a product of the indoctrination of recruits during their visit. Hey tell these naive kids that osu has tradition, and most will assume it as being true.

Kids are dumb they will believe stuff just cuz people in their ear say it. :D

Having said that, OSU is not completely void of any sports tradition whatsoever. There are worse places to end up to play sports, football included. There are a lot of qualities to OSU that some might think are negatives, but in fact could be appealing to certain recruits:

Knock: OSU doesn't win in football as often as OU and other top tier programs.

Pitch: OSU is a place where you will not simply be compared to past All-Americans, Heismans or championship players and teams. This is a place where you can be the first to accomplish instead of the next in a long line of teams and players to accomplish something. You can be a pioneer and a leader instead of a follower.

Knock: OSU's facilities aren't built yet and existing facilities suck.

Pitch: OSU is in the process of building new, awesome facilities, which means that you will be among the first to use and enjoy them, rather than dealing with older facilities that might look nice now, but will not have the latest of everything like new facilities will.

Knock: OSU's success is short term and will not last.

Pitch: It all depends on recruits like you to maintain our new high expectations and level of success. Without you, it may fall apart, but with top athletes like you, we will achieve even greater levels of success. We depend on YOU. We count on YOU! We need YOU!

Knock: Stillwater isn't a fun place to be a teenage college student.

Pitch: It doesn't have a beach, pro sports in town or a big population, which means that distractions will be minimized and you can concentrate solely on football and/or your studies.

Knock: Speaking of academics, you guys aren't exactly Stanford or Ivy League or on the verge of AAU membership.

Pitch: While we encourage you to have the highest grades and highest standardized test scores, you will have less worries about maintaining your eligibility or even qualifying to be a student-athlete here. Did you know that athletes need to complete 30 credit hours per year to maintain eligibility? That's why a lot of athletes struggle at more academic institutions. At OSU, there will be less pressure to keep your rigid courseload while being a student-athlete as you would at a Stanford or a Cal-Berkeley.

Knock: Your fanbase seems kind of hillbilly as does a lot about your school. Why is there a cattle gate at the stadium's tunnel? Why are there foam cowboy hats and orange paddles and... is that fan wearing beer cozies as arm bands?!

Pitch: ... is that a Confederate Flag flying in the SEC school's tailgate area?!?!?!

:D

[Jacie]

Is this thread about wrestling?

[w0lfe]

LMFAO

[Sabanball]

Sure they are--in animal husbandry and maybe in wrestling. In football, they aren't even a Johnny-come-lately like Florida or LSU....

The next time a poke fan tries to argue about this, just say two words: Iowa State. That should end the conversation.

[8timechamps]

As I said, "Elite" program's fans don't storm the field after beating a two-loss team.

[Peeb]

This thread reminds me of the debates over on my guitar forums, where members endlessly dissect the meaning of the term 'artist' as it does or does not apply to certain guitar players.

Whatever you wanna call any program is your prerogative. Customarily Cowboys have had some fairly derogatory adjectives for Sooners, and vice versa. Notwithstanding the friction, the Sooners have a VASTLY better tradition and record than my Cowboys. Fortunately for the Pokes, they've had a wealthy benefactor, good leadership, and the most conference wins in the B12 over the last three seasons, along with some nice facilities and National interest.

My personal take is that both programs are at an elite point, but the Sooners are CLEARLY more so. It would doubtless help the Sooner Nation to believe the Cowboys are NOT elite in any sense of the word in any way at any time. I'm so happy you have that option. Maybe you're right. Be well in either instance.

Now, please excuse me- I have some manure to stomp thru. Maybe keeping sheep in the house is not such a good idea.

[StoopTroup]

Garth Brooks is a Wealthy Benefactor? I thought he was still building on that house....not helping oSu? :D